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View Full Version : Thoughts On Santonio Trade?


DoubleYoi
10-28-2010, 09:17 AM
Steelers shocked the world by trading to Santonio to the Jets in exchange for a 5th-round draft pick this past off-season. There have been many theories of why he was traded: The Steelers made an example out of Santonio, Rooneys were just avoiding a potential bitter contract dispute following this season....etc. I don't think many people thought the player drafted with that 5th-round pick would rival the skill set and upside the SB XLIII MVP brought to the table so the trade's grade should not be based on OT Chris Scott's production thus far.

Santonio served his suspension and has now played two games, amassing 7 receptions for 88 yards and 0 TDs. His role in the Jets offense will definitely increase in the weeks to come but how does this trade look to you now?

Obviously the Steelers offense would be better off with him in there but with a 5-1 record, I can't really complain. Mike Wallace hasn't disappointed, Hines should continue to be a work horse and Emanuel Sanders/Brown will only improve. To me, trading Santonio and avoiding the headache that could've been just exemplifies the one fact I already knew......The Rooneys know exactly what they're doing!!

lionslicer
10-28-2010, 10:12 AM
I think the trade worked out well. If he was suspended he would just have taken up roster space for the first 6 weeks and neither Sanders or Brown would have gotten the chances they did, possibly one or even both of them wouldn't have even made the team. And in the future he would have taken up a lot of cap space as well.

ricardisimo
10-28-2010, 10:43 AM
Scott broke his foot, which throws the exact trade in itself out the window. He's back now, and I suspect that, thanks to Flozell's ankle, we might see him stay on the roster. If he works out, and we get an eight-year starter, we win as far as I'm concerned. He doesn't even need to be a Pro Bowler.

ETL
10-28-2010, 11:41 AM
Tone is one more drug offense from a year suspension. Trust me, he WILL be caught with drugs again. There's a reason why teams didn't offer more.

Atlanta Dan
10-28-2010, 11:56 AM
Holmes was not going to get a new contract and flunking another drug test forced the issue.

While having Holmes on the field would provide for a better passing offense this season, Santonio allegedly was acting out last year (late for meetings & perhaps team flights) and presumably could have turned into a toxic force in the locker room regarding his contract (see, e.g., Faneca) that Tomlin had no interest in having to deal with given Roethhlisberger's offseason drama.

Holmes absence is another issue going into this season that has (so far) turned out better than i anticipated

CargoJon
10-28-2010, 11:58 AM
Mike Wallace has done everything I expected he would. I really appreciated the contributions Santo made to this team, but the bullshit made it not worth it. He would have gone in free agency anyway a la Plaxico.

DoubleYoi
10-28-2010, 12:06 PM
Tone is one more drug offense from a year suspension. Trust me, he WILL be caught with drugs again. There's a reason why teams didn't offer more.

The fact that he was suspended for the first 4 games and had no contract beyond this year is probably the biggest reason teams weren't throwing more at the Steelers. I hear what you're saying though.

Rick5895
10-28-2010, 12:34 PM
I agree with Atlanta dan, Santo was on his way out anyway. I look at this differently than most, I don't look at the player we got in the trade, I look at what we have at WR right now. Wallace is every bit as dynamic with out the "issues" of Holmes and with him gone it allows us to develop two pretty talented receivers in Sanders (who I think is a future pro bowler) and brown.
I think it has worked out for the best.

wootawnee
10-28-2010, 02:23 PM
He was a me dude....

steelcity1974
10-28-2010, 02:41 PM
Mike Wallace has done everything I expected he would. I really appreciated the contributions Santo made to this team, but the bullshit made it not worth it. He would have gone in free agency anyway a la Plaxico.

I haven't missed Santonio at all this year...and to your point, it's because Mike Wallace is filling the void.

Riddle_Of_Steel
10-28-2010, 02:46 PM
Holmes has acknowledged selling drugs on the street corner of his hometown of Belle Glade, Florida as a teenager; he says that his mother's influence and a desire to play professional football made him decide to stop.[12]

Holmes was arrested in Miami Beach, Florida on May 27, 2006 for disorderly conduct.[13] Charges were subsequently dropped after Holmes paid a fine. Holmes was arrested for a second time on June 18, 2006 for domestic violence and assault in Columbus, Ohio.[14]

On July 7, 2006, Holmes appeared in Franklin County Court in Columbus, Ohio for both a pre-trial regarding the domestic case and hearing regarding the traffic ticket. He pled no contest to the traffic ticket and agreed to pay a fine. While Lashae Boone, the mother of Holmes' daughter and the victim in the assault case, requested that the domestic violence and assault charges be dropped, the prosecutor refused. Boone and their daughter accompanied Holmes to court. The charges were later dropped.[15]

On October 23, 2008, Holmes was arrested in Pittsburgh and cited by officers for possession of marijuana.[16][17] He released an apology after missing a game, stating that he wished to "focus all of [his] efforts on helping our team win on the field and achieve its ultimate goal."[18]

On March 24, 2010, Anshonae Mills filed a lawsuit against Holmes over a March 7 incident in which she alleges Holmes threw a glass at her in an Orlando nightclub, resulting in a cut above her eye. Initially, Mills did not pursue charges, claiming Holmes and the police intimidated her into it, but the case has been reopened. Subsequently, after a Twitter comment criticizing the nightclub incident, Holmes told the follower to "kill urself." He later Tweeted it was time to "wake n bake," a reference to marijuana.[19] Holmes alleges his account was hacked and it was not him making the comments.[20]

On April 29, according to a report filed by authorities at Pittsburgh International Airport, a flight attendant told police that Holmes wouldn't turn off his iPod when requested and asked that officers speak to him. Holmes got off the Colgan Air flight and spoke to the officers, who reminded him to comply with regulations, but did not charge the wide receiver with anything. Holmes later talked to Jets head coach Rex Ryan about the incident.[21]

^^^^That is why we traded Santonio Holmes-- has less to do with "making an example" or "avoiding a contract dispute". He had discipline issues, was asked to stop Tweeting about his pot-smoking by the Rooneys yet continued anyways.

ricardisimo
10-28-2010, 02:58 PM
The showboating every time he made a first down catch - or even just five yard outs - was enough reason to deal him. Like Bouchette would say in his op-eds: "Act like you've been there before."

steelerjim58
10-28-2010, 03:17 PM
The showboating every time he made a first down catch - or even just five yard outs - was enough reason to deal him. Like Bouchette would say in his op-eds: "Act like you've been there before."

You have avery liberal definition of showboating. With Santonio the Steelers could have been something special IMHO. The worst deal the Rooneys have ever made. Again IMHO.

PhantomJB93
10-28-2010, 03:24 PM
My Stance:
Although I can definitely see why we traded him, and I have no major problem with the concept of getting him off the team as he was not as "vital" as some think he was, we DEFINITELY could have, and should have gotten more than a 5th round pick for him. I know some people will try ot say his stock was down, his off field problems were too great, etc., but I simply find it impossible that a college star and first round pick, coming off a SBMVP and a 1200 yard, best statistical season of his career, who has never really had any major character issues except smoking weed which really isnt thta bad at all, would only be worth a 5th round pick. Not eveyr team holds players to as high a standard as we do. Do you really think a team like the Lions, Raiders, or Rams wouldn't have given up at least a 3rd, maybe even a 2nd or 1st for him had we just TRIED to shop him around? Our front office just took the first offer that came in for him, which unfortunately was from Rex Ryan who decided to take advatnage of the Rooneys because I have a pretty good feeling they would give him up at the first offer made

stb_steeler
10-28-2010, 03:34 PM
Holmes has acknowledged selling drugs on the street corner of his hometown of Belle Glade, Florida as a teenager; he says that his mother's influence and a desire to play professional football made him decide to stop.[12]

Holmes was arrested in Miami Beach, Florida on May 27, 2006 for disorderly conduct.[13] Charges were subsequently dropped after Holmes paid a fine. Holmes was arrested for a second time on June 18, 2006 for domestic violence and assault in Columbus, Ohio.[14]

On July 7, 2006, Holmes appeared in Franklin County Court in Columbus, Ohio for both a pre-trial regarding the domestic case and hearing regarding the traffic ticket. He pled no contest to the traffic ticket and agreed to pay a fine. While Lashae Boone, the mother of Holmes' daughter and the victim in the assault case, requested that the domestic violence and assault charges be dropped, the prosecutor refused. Boone and their daughter accompanied Holmes to court. The charges were later dropped.[15]

On October 23, 2008, Holmes was arrested in Pittsburgh and cited by officers for possession of marijuana.[16][17] He released an apology after missing a game, stating that he wished to "focus all of [his] efforts on helping our team win on the field and achieve its ultimate goal."[18]

On March 24, 2010, Anshonae Mills filed a lawsuit against Holmes over a March 7 incident in which she alleges Holmes threw a glass at her in an Orlando nightclub, resulting in a cut above her eye. Initially, Mills did not pursue charges, claiming Holmes and the police intimidated her into it, but the case has been reopened. Subsequently, after a Twitter comment criticizing the nightclub incident, Holmes told the follower to "kill urself." He later Tweeted it was time to "wake n bake," a reference to marijuana.[19] Holmes alleges his account was hacked and it was not him making the comments.[20]

On April 29, according to a report filed by authorities at Pittsburgh International Airport, a flight attendant told police that Holmes wouldn't turn off his iPod when requested and asked that officers speak to him. Holmes got off the Colgan Air flight and spoke to the officers, who reminded him to comply with regulations, but did not charge the wide receiver with anything. Holmes later talked to Jets head coach Rex Ryan about the incident.[21]

^^^^That is why we traded Santonio Holmes-- has less to do with "making an example" or "avoiding a contract dispute". He had discipline issues, was asked to stop Tweeting about his pot-smoking by the Rooneys yet continued anyways.

Seems like he has a HUGE ego problem.. Something or someone will knock him down a peg and by then it will be to late. He could be a super star in the NFL if he cleans up his act.

Lady Steel
10-28-2010, 03:47 PM
Tone is one more drug offense from a year suspension. Trust me, he WILL be caught with drugs again. There's a reason why teams didn't offer more.

Yep. I liked Santonio when he was with the Steelers, but I think it was the right decision to trade him just as it was the right decision to let Plaxico Burress go. Look what happened to him.

MasterOfPuppets
10-28-2010, 03:52 PM
i didn't have a problem with trading him, but i did have a problem with only getting a 5th rd pick .:doh:miami got a 5th rd pick for ted freakin ginn .

infact i'd like to see more trades rather than just letting players walk .

lionslicer
10-28-2010, 03:55 PM
i didn't have a problem with trading him, but i did have a problem with only getting a 5th rd pick .:doh:miami got a 5th rd pick for ted freakin ginn .

infact i'd like to see more trades rather than just letting players walk .

Should have traded Holmes for an offensive coordinator...

And a 5th round draft pick isn't that bad.. Steelers got Scott and Sylvester in the 5th round.. You can name many pro bowlers and hall of famers who dropped to the 5th round.

Terrel Davis, Deacon Jones, Bo Jackson, Shannon Sharpe, Larry Wilson, Roger Staubach, Zach Thomas, Rodney Harrison, Richard Dent, Matt Birk, Bill Goldberg all fell to or past the 5th round

madtowndrunkard
10-28-2010, 04:06 PM
On the surface a 5th round pick for Santonio Holmes is completely ridiculous. It's not even close to being a fair deal even with Holme's pot problems.

Things are never black and white though. It was clear the steelers FO made the decision to part with Holmes no matter what. So when we offered up Holmes in a trade it was clear that most teams assumed he would be cut if we couldn't trade him. So from the Jets standpoint why over pay? We took the best offer on the table. A 5th round pick was better then cutting him and eating his cap $ for this year. We basically cut him.

I think the question should have been - did the steelers make the right choice parting with Holmes? Do you send a clear message to your current and future players by cutting him? Or do you hope that Holmes straightens him self out and becomes our elite WR we think he's capable of?

I think Wallace and Ward made that decision very easy.

ZoneBlitzer
10-28-2010, 05:16 PM
i didn't have a problem with trading him, but i did have a problem with only getting a 5th rd pick .:doh:miami got a 5th rd pick for ted freakin ginn .

infact i'd like to see more trades rather than just letting players walk .

I have a problem for receiving nothing in return as well. A 5th round pick was a joke.

DoubleYoi
10-28-2010, 07:13 PM
I have a problem for receiving nothing in return as well. A 5th round pick was a joke.

A 5th-round pick does seem like an awful return for a player of Santonio's status but I honestly believe it was the best offer on the table. Basically, we traded 12 games of Santonio's career for a 5th-round draft pick....nothing more, nothing less. Doesn't seem like such a bad deal when you think of it like that, especially if Ward, Wallace and the rest of the WR corps can lead us to a division title.

Atlanta Dan
10-28-2010, 07:46 PM
You have avery liberal definition of showboating. With Santonio the Steelers could have been something special IMHO. The worst deal the Rooneys have ever made. Again IMHO.

Because his presence for 10 games in 2010 guaranteed another Lombardi?

We of course have no idea exactly went goes on between the coaches and players in the locker room but I recall during the 2008 season Phil Simms said during one game around the time of the October 2008 traffic stop/pot bust that the Steelers were hoping Holmes would soon mature - i guess they got tired of waiting.

After playing pitch and catch with Roethlisberger for the winning drive in XLIII and big plays in the Chargers and Ravens games I thought 2009 would be when Holmes became an elite receiver. Instead, i recall a dropped pass that could have won the Chicago game, running the wrong route in the first Bengals loss (coaches made it clear the pick was Holmes fault - calling him out on that indicates the coaches were getting tired of all the static) and other off the field issues during the season, followed by testing positive (again), tweeting "its time to wake and bake" the week his 4 week suspension was issued, and telling another tweeter he should kill himself after being called out for the incident in the club in Florida.

Add that to the fact the Steelers were not going to meet Holmes price for 2011 (who should they let go instead - Taylor? - Woodley?) and enduring his bull**** for bursts of talent IMHO were decided by the front office not to be worth it anymore - IMHO :drink:

Atlanta Dan
10-28-2010, 07:51 PM
My Stance:
Although I can definitely see why we traded him, and I have no major problem with the concept of getting him off the team as he was not as "vital" as some think he was, we DEFINITELY could have, and should have gotten more than a 5th round pick for him. I know some people will try ot say his stock was down, his off field problems were too great, etc., but I simply find it impossible that a college star and first round pick, coming off a SBMVP and a 1200 yard, best statistical season of his career, who has never really had any major character issues except smoking weed which really isnt thta bad at all, would only be worth a 5th round pick. Not eveyr team holds players to as high a standard as we do. Do you really think a team like the Lions, Raiders, or Rams wouldn't have given up at least a 3rd, maybe even a 2nd or 1st for him had we just TRIED to shop him around? Our front office just took the first offer that came in for him, which unfortunately was from Rex Ryan who decided to take advatnage of the Rooneys because I have a pretty good feeling they would give him up at the first offer made

Rams and Raiders were saving their picks to assemble a package to trade for Roethlisberger:chuckle:

Patriots only got a 3rd round pick for Moss - when someone in the last year of their contract needs to go better talents than Holmes have not drawn huge offers

lionslicer
10-28-2010, 08:10 PM
Rams and Raiders were saving their picks to assemble a package to trade for Roethlisberger:chuckle:

Patriots only got a 3rd round pick for Moss - when someone in the last year of their contract needs to go better talents than Holmes have not drawn huge offers

Patriots wanted to have to same number of picks in each round.. They had 2 in the first, 2 in the 2nd, 2 in the 4th and so on, but they only had 1 in the 3rd... lol

ricardisimo
10-28-2010, 09:02 PM
You have avery liberal definition of showboating. With Santonio the Steelers could have been something special IMHO. The worst deal the Rooneys have ever made. Again IMHO.
No, I don't. Wallace makes 50-yard catches with less fanfare after them than any of Tone's ordinary 10-yarders. The whole muscle-flexing nonsense after every damned catch? Again - drop the rookie bullshit, and act like you've done it before. He's already doing it in NY, acting like the shit after a seven-yard catch. Meanwhile he's fumbling and drawing offensive pass interference flags at exactly the wrong times for them.

He helped us get #6. Thank you. Goodbye.

SoCalFan
10-29-2010, 12:39 PM
Remember the Bam Morris marijuana issue,he didnt last long.The Rooneys know what they are doing,they always weed out the bad seeds and are loyal to those that are good to them!

SteelKnight
10-29-2010, 03:20 PM
Tone is one more drug offense from a year suspension. Trust me, he WILL be caught with drugs again. There's a reason why teams didn't offer more.

I agree. Even though pot is not physiologically addicting, it can be mentally addicting for some. It would be like telling a guy who is big on porn never to look at internet porn again. One day when nobody is looking, curiosity (or craving) might hit and bang.

He WILL mess up again. And what's bad with pot is it stays in your system for a month so they don't even have to hit the exact day. There could be a snitch.

It will happen because if the kindness the fans, Steelers, media, police and justice system showed him by ignoring the previous one and basically throwing out the case didn't scare him straight, nothing will.

I was not up to date on his nude pictures but once I saw those, I knew it was the right decision. He is just too much. I never liked the drama after each catch either. He should save it for TDs.

Still I appreciate what he did for us...especially with "the catch". It's a shame really. It's a mucking shame.

Riddle_Of_Steel
10-29-2010, 03:47 PM
Because his presence for 10 games in 2010 guaranteed another Lombardi?

We of course have no idea exactly went goes on between the coaches and players in the locker room but I recall during the 2008 season Phil Simms said during one game around the time of the October 2008 traffic stop/pot bust that the Steelers were hoping Holmes would soon mature - i guess they got tired of waiting.

After playing pitch and catch with Roethlisberger for the winning drive in XLIII and big plays in the Chargers and Ravens games I thought 2009 would be when Holmes became an elite receiver. Instead, i recall a dropped pass that could have won the Chicago game, running the wrong route in the first Bengals loss (coaches made it clear the pick was Holmes fault - calling him out on that indicates the coaches were getting tired of all the static) and other off the field issues during the season, followed by testing positive (again), tweeting "its time to wake and bake" the week his 4 week suspension was issued, and telling another tweeter he should kill himself after being called out for the incident in the club in Florida.

Add that to the fact the Steelers were not going to meet Holmes price for 2011 (who should they let go instead - Taylor? - Woodley?) and enduring his bull**** for bursts of talent IMHO were decided by the front office not to be worth it anymore - IMHO :drink:

BINGO.

Third Rail
10-29-2010, 04:02 PM
Sometimes I think the Steelers organization gets caught up in its own bullshit. Trading Holmes for damn near nothing in return was one of the stupidest off-season moves I've ever seen. He was a playmaker for Pittsburgh; anyone who says that he wasn't needs to get their eyes checked. He may be starting a little slow in New York but remember, he's got Mark Sanchez throwing to him, not Roethlisberger. But Sanchez will continue to improve and eventually, I think they'll be as in sync as Ben and 'Ton often were.

Look, I understand the off-the-field headaches get annoying but I'm sure they could have at least gotten a better deal for him. I don't even think they tried because they were catching bad publicity over the crap with Ben in Georgia and the Steelers front office was just trying to save some face and prove to everyone that "they set the standard in the league" or whatever. Which is really pretty stupid. I mean, who cares? It's not like the fans of any other teams out there suddenly gained respect for Pittsburgh for dumping a controversial player. They still hate the Steelers as much as they ever did.

ricardisimo
10-29-2010, 04:08 PM
Is our wide receiver play lacking in the least? I say it isn't, as do many others, which makes keeping him a luxury. Once you factor in cap space and his legal issues and distractions and grandstanding, it quickly becomes a luxury the team decided it couldn't afford.

steeltheone
10-29-2010, 04:14 PM
Lets get this straight...Holmes is a much better overall player than Wallace right now. Hopefully that will change soon when Wallace becomes a better route runner. Wallace long ball speed is an obvous plus!

ricardisimo
10-29-2010, 04:40 PM
Lets get this straight...Holmes is a much better overall player than Wallace right now. Hopefully that will change soon when Wallace becomes a better route runner. Wallace long ball speed is an obvous plus!
Let's get it straight at the end of the season. We'll see who's numbers are better. But make no mistake, the stats only tell a part of the story. If our receiving corps suffers no perceptible drop-off, and the team saves a bundle of cash and a lot of headaches, then what is your argument?

It's not like Holmes is the best in the league at what he does, but even if he were, what of it? Players move on. The Steelers got a fifth-round pick instead of nothing, and will develop some depth instead of watching Santonio leave after playing his ten games this year, and maybe watching Brown or Sanders wind up on another team's roster.

It would be nice to have all of the great players you want. But if you're going to dream like that, dream about an offense that consists of Manning, Peterson, White, Wayne, Gates and an All-Pro line... but that only happens in Hawai'i. The argument from some here is that getting a draft pick, stress relief and some cap room for Holmes is not worth the ten games he would have played this year. I think the Rooneys/Tomlin made a good trade.

AndyWitmyer
10-29-2010, 06:08 PM
Thoughts On Santonio Trade?

Santonio who???

JackHammer
10-29-2010, 11:18 PM
My Stance:
Although I can definitely see why we traded him, and I have no major problem with the concept of getting him off the team as he was not as "vital" as some think he was, we DEFINITELY could have, and should have gotten more than a 5th round pick for him. I know some people will try ot say his stock was down, his off field problems were too great, etc., but I simply find it impossible that a college star and first round pick, coming off a SBMVP and a 1200 yard, best statistical season of his career, who has never really had any major character issues except smoking weed which really isnt thta bad at all, would only be worth a 5th round pick. Not eveyr team holds players to as high a standard as we do. Do you really think a team like the Lions, Raiders, or Rams wouldn't have given up at least a 3rd, maybe even a 2nd or 1st for him had we just TRIED to shop him around? Our front office just took the first offer that came in for him, which unfortunately was from Rex Ryan who decided to take advatnage of the Rooneys because I have a pretty good feeling they would give him up at the first offer made

It's all about risk. When you have someone who's one violation away from a year suspension, and acts as dumb as he does off of the field, you're taking a risk by signing him. There's at least a good chance that he'll slip up, AGAIN, and get sat down for a year. If that kind of player is worth more than a 5th round pick, well it's not by much. Maybe a 4th at best.....

steeltheone
10-29-2010, 11:23 PM
Let's get it straight at the end of the season. We'll see who's numbers are better. But make no mistake, the stats only tell a part of the story. If our receiving corps suffers no perceptible drop-off, and the team saves a bundle of cash and a lot of headaches, then what is your argument?

It's not like Holmes is the best in the league at what he does, but even if he were, what of it? Players move on. The Steelers got a fifth-round pick instead of nothing, and will develop some depth instead of watching Santonio leave after playing his ten games this year, and maybe watching Brown or Sanders wind up on another team's roster.

It would be nice to have all of the great players you want. But if you're going to dream like that, dream about an offense that consists of Manning, Peterson, White, Wayne, Gates and an All-Pro line... but that only happens in Hawai'i. The argument from some here is that getting a draft pick, stress relief and some cap room for Holmes is not worth the ten games he would have played this year. I think the Rooneys/Tomlin made a good trade.
I'm glad we traded Holmes The Organization is bigger than any one player! But right now Holmes is a much better overall reciever than Wallace.