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thumper
11-01-2010, 11:49 AM
It's not always a gift to be right. I knew this game was likely
going to be won by Saints for all the reasons I gave. And
I guess I wasn't so out of whack in stating that the Saints
had a pretty good D of their own and maybe _their_ D would
be a factor in NO winning.

Well, we put up a paltry 10 points vs. their D, and, this just
in, you don't win too many NFL games if you don't score
more than 10 points. NO's D hounding our offense all
night; putting up a lame 10 points ain't gonna cut it. I
thought our D played well all night, but the O didn't do
it's job and, in the end, their D was too much for this
team to over come.

But, as losses go, this one doesn't bother me. Losing
to the current champs, in their house, on prime time,
national TV after they just had a lose isn't the end of
the world, not to mention, them being out of conf. and
out of div. makes the loss hurt less.

I pointed out how the Saints pass D was superior to ours,
and it sure looked that way, even though the Saints were down
to nearly zero CBs and were using all safeties to play CBs.

You'd think they would have been enough for Ben and co. to
take advantage, but it didn't turn out that way.

SteelCityMom
11-01-2010, 12:35 PM
Clownbylaw? Is that you? Did you get a new crystal ball?

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/1004/mmmmmmmmmmm-crystal-ball-fortune-teller-demotivational-poster-1271395065.jpg

Again, nobody was dissing on the Saints D (or the team as a whole). Everyone knew this would be a tough game and a tough test for the pass defense.

However, you are trying to refer to a discussion that had more to do with overall rankings being deceiving than anything else. I highly doubt anyone thought that this game was going to be a walk in the park...and while most would have loved a blowout win, getting one was 100% not going to happen.

It's silly to start making threads patting yourself on the back for stating the obvious though. Both teams have a good defense...despite the misleading overall rankings. Saints offense just held together better than the Steelers offense did. That's where I put the majority of the blame for the loss.

thumper
11-01-2010, 03:40 PM
Clownbylaw? Is that you? Did you get a new crystal ball?

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/1004/mmmmmmmmmmm-crystal-ball-fortune-teller-demotivational-poster-1271395065.jpg

Again, nobody was dissing on the Saints D (or the team as a whole). Everyone knew this would be a tough game and a tough test for the pass defense.

However, you are trying to refer to a discussion that had more to do with overall rankings being deceiving than anything else. I highly doubt anyone thought that this game was going to be a walk in the park...and while most would have loved a blowout win, getting one was 100% not going to happen.

It's silly to start making threads patting yourself on the back for stating the obvious though. Both teams have a good defense...despite the misleading overall rankings. Saints offense just held together better than the Steelers offense did. That's where I put the majority of the blame for the loss.

I guess you are forgetting some of the posts. <shrugs shoulders> Bottom line, I saw this loss coming, clearly. And lots of yinzers didn't have a clue. Some have vision, some don't. Whattayeagonnado?

SteelCityMom
11-01-2010, 03:45 PM
Nope, didn't forget any of the posts...they're all right here. http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=60829

Please point out where you were "lambasted" lol.

Besides...it's not like you were the first or last person to start a thread about how the Steelers pass D would have trouble with Brees. It's just, you were the only one who referred to overall pass D stats as a reference. Which, as pointed out in the mentioned thread, overall stats are misleading. That was true before the game, and it's true after the game.

Great "vision" on your part. :rofl:

Like I said...all you did was state the obvious, which was basically 'Brees might give the Steelers pass D fits'. Brilliant "premonition". I'm sure you're the only one who thought that going into the game.

Funny you waited until after the game to back up your statements...when it was nice and safe lol.

thumper
11-01-2010, 04:16 PM
Nope, didn't forget any of the posts...they're all right here. http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=60829

Please point out where you were "lambasted" lol.

Besides...it's not like you were the first or last person to start a thread about how the Steelers pass D would have trouble with Brees. It's just, you were the only one who referred to overall pass D stats as a reference. Which, as pointed out in the mentioned thread, overall stats are misleading. That was true before the game, and it's true after the game.

Great "vision" on your part. :rofl:

Like I said...all you did was state the obvious, which was basically 'Brees might give the Steelers pass D fits'. Brilliant "premonition". I'm sure you're the only one who thought that going into the game.

Funny you waited until after the game to back up your statements...when it was nice and safe lol.

I had the stones to call my shots BEFORE the game, and not just in one thread, as you tried to sell. My main point wasn't it the Brees could pass on us, it was that the average fan was overlooking the Saints' D itself - that is was good and would cause us problems. I'd say limiting us to 10 points definitely proves that point out. :applaudit:

SteelCityMom
11-01-2010, 04:31 PM
I had the stones to call my shots BEFORE the game, and not just in one thread, as you tried to sell. My main point wasn't it the Brees could pass on us, it was that the average fan was overlooking the Saints' D itself - that is was good and would cause us problems. I'd say limiting us to 10 points definitely proves that point out. :applaudit:

Again, all you did was point out obvious things. I.E. The Saints D is good and may cause the Steelers problems.

Yes, you said something that other people said as well...and then made a thread implying that you were the only right one and "us clueless yinzers" were wrong.

Well done...here's your :cookie:

By the way, please note that I never said the Steelers would win and that Brees wouldn't be able to pass on our D. I merely pointed out that overall stats are misleading. A point, in which, you never did have "the stones" to be able to refute. You waited until after the game to make yourself look good. Meanwhile, there are others of us who know that looking at overall defensive stats and calling a game are not sound arguments. If it were a sound argument the Chargers would be unbeaten.

SteelCityMom
11-01-2010, 04:49 PM
By the way, I took a look (for posterities sake) at the threads made specifically about the Saints and the Steelers Pass D. The only one I found you posting in is the one I referenced to.

Take a look at all the "clueless yinzers" who were just as worried about this as you were.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=60813
http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=60892
http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=60934

Some thought the Steelers D would be able to hold the Saints in check (and for most of the game, they weren't wrong) and some had faith that the Steelers O would be able to pass well (which they SHOULD have been able to pass well...but had a shitty game).

There were a lot of differing opinions...but you're the only one to make a glory thread for yourself lol.

steelerdave1969
11-01-2010, 05:14 PM
You children are killing me. There was Not Only One Person here that thought there was a chance that the Saints would go wild on our Secondary. I thought they would and I thought it would have been alot worst. And if the Saints would have played 4 wide like they did at the end of the 1st half the whole game, the game wouldnt have been close. The Saints Defense played alot better than I expected and thats for sure, but the Saints Blitzed Almost Every Play in the 1st half its seems like and Ben didnt make the right calls in Protection and the WR's just werent reacting soon enough as Hot Reads. This is one game I am not too worried about it, but the Bengals are a pass happy team nowa days because their running game isnt what it was last year.:deadhorse:

ricardisimo
11-01-2010, 05:46 PM
He speaks uncomfortable truths, like clownbyflaw and Jesus Christ before him, and all of you people can't handle it. :rolleyes:

stb_steeler
11-01-2010, 06:43 PM
Still cant get over how the Browns stuck it to em.....:noidea:

Fire Arians
11-01-2010, 06:46 PM
Still cant get over how the Browns stuck it to em.....:noidea:

the browns are a lot tougher than people give em credit for. and sometimes a team with nothing to lose is a very scary thing. they don't play it safe and will pull out all the stops and tricks to pull off a W

anyway with that said, they caught the saints with their pants down. sometimes a wakeup call like that is what some teams need to get their shit together

TRH
11-01-2010, 09:02 PM
the Browns are awful and have a terrible coach, but like once a year, they always seem to have one game where they play like Super Bowl champions. Its quite baffling.

thumper
11-02-2010, 11:28 AM
By the way, I took a look (for posterities sake) at the threads made specifically about the Saints and the Steelers Pass D. The only one I found you posting in is the one I referenced to.

Take a look at all the "clueless yinzers" who were just as worried about this as you were.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=60813
http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=60892
http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=60934

Some thought the Steelers D would be able to hold the Saints in check (and for most of the game, they weren't wrong) and some had faith that the Steelers O would be able to pass well (which they SHOULD have been able to pass well...but had a shitty game).

There were a lot of differing opinions...but you're the only one to make a glory thread for yourself lol.

You keep acting like the main assertion was that NO would be able to pass
on us; that was a secondary assertion. The main thrust was that we kept
whooping about how great our D was, but NO had a good D of their own,
and that could be the winning factor in the game. When I factually demonstrated
they were ranked ahead of Pgh on D rating, everyone flipped out, bashing
the rating system, saying it was irrelevant, etc. Well, the game was played.
Who's D did better? Pgh only scored a paltry 10 points.

Don't kill the messenger.

All I did was accurately point this out.

Don't hate.

But, yes, I did mention that the Saints' pass D was ranked much higher than Pgh's, only after another poster tried to poke holes in the "Saints D was ranked higher than Pgh's" assertion with all kinds of examples of where Pgh had better #s. That being said, here is how the passing Ds did.

Pgh Net Yards Passing 171 N.O. Net Yards Passing 288

NO Pass D put a lid on our passing attack. Their pass O diced up us pretty good. So, at the end of the day, Saints' D proved better on that night.

SteelCityMom
11-02-2010, 11:36 AM
You keep acting like the main assertion was that NO would be able to pass
on us; that was a secondary assertion. The main thrust was that we kept
whooping about how great our D was, but NO had a good D of their own,
and that could be the winning factor in the game. When I factually demonstrated
they were ranked ahead of Pgh on D rating, everyone flipped out, bashing
the rating system, saying it was irrelevant, etc. Well, the game was played.
Who's D did better? Pgh only scored a paltry 10 points.

Don't kill the messenger.

All I did was accurately point this out.

Don't hate.

But, yes, I did mention that the Saints' pass D was ranked much higher than Pgh's, only after another poster tried to poke holes in the "Saints D was ranked higher than Pgh's" assertion with all kinds of examples of where Pgh had better #s. That being said, here is how the passing Ds did.

Pgh Net Yards Passing 171 N.O. Net Yards Passing 288

NO Pass D put a lid on our passing attack. Their pass O diced up us pretty good. So, at the end of the day, Saints' D proved better on that night.

Lol...calm down tiger. Nobody bashed the NO's defense. Nobody said they weren't good. All anybody pointed out was the overall rankings are misleading....a point you seem to have trouble grasping.

And guess what...the Steelers defense did and still does have better numbers in some significant categories than the Saints D.

As I pointed out in the same thread that I pointed out the stats though, games aren't won on paper. There's a reason I said that, reason being on any given Sunday those significant stats can be meaningless. That happened to be the case on Sunday. But like I've mentioned, calling a game a win or loss based on overall stats is erroneous. Otherwise the 2-5 Chargers (who are #1 in 4 overall categories) would be 5-2 or better.

You keep missing that point and go on about "hating" and "don't kill the messenger", whatever that's supposed to mean (cause you weren't the only one saying that the Saints D might do well against the Steelers).

You bravely made a prediction that had a 50/50 chance of being right based on overall defensive stats and you were right...congrats. Just realize you weren't the only one (or two or three....) person saying that the game would be difficult on both sides of the ball.

Anyhow, hope you've enjoyed your glory thread. If you don't get the point by now, you never will. :wave:

thumper
11-02-2010, 02:42 PM
Lol...calm down tiger. Nobody bashed the NO's defense. Nobody said they weren't good. All anybody pointed out was the overall rankings are misleading....a point you seem to have trouble grasping.

And guess what...the Steelers defense did and still does have better numbers in some significant categories than the Saints D.

As I pointed out in the same thread that I pointed out the stats though, games aren't won on paper. There's a reason I said that, reason being on any given Sunday those significant stats can be meaningless. That happened to be the case on Sunday. But like I've mentioned, calling a game a win or loss based on overall stats is erroneous. Otherwise the 2-5 Chargers (who are #1 in 4 overall categories) would be 5-2 or better.

You keep missing that point and go on about "hating" and "don't kill the messenger", whatever that's supposed to mean (cause you weren't the only one saying that the Saints D might do well against the Steelers).

You bravely made a prediction that had a 50/50 chance of being right based on overall defensive stats and you were right...congrats. Just realize you weren't the only one (or two or three....) person saying that the game would be difficult on both sides of the ball.

Anyhow, hope you've enjoyed your glory thread. If you don't get the point by now, you never will. :wave:

I just was expressing my observations.
Here is what I actually posted.

Steelers' D wins the game?

That sounds good, but N.O. is the one with the higher
rated D in this game. That's right. NO is rated 3rd in D,
Pgh is rated 4th. I know, I know, I know - I'm gonna hear
that the ratings don't tell the whole story, etc. etc. But my
point is: Don't come in with the assumption that our D
will be the determining factor to winning the game; their
D is just as good.

That's when everyone said Pgh's D was way better, basically
mocking my assertion. And then I did point out how Saints'
passing D was significantly better, and, well, it ended up
being the difference in the game. Neither team could run
and NO's better pass D held us under 180 yards passing
and only 10 points on the board. They racked up 288 in
passing yards.

I'm not pleased I was right. But I also don't have to hide from
the assertion either.

ricardisimo
11-02-2010, 02:45 PM
Is it gang tackle time yet? :popcorn:

SteelCityMom
11-02-2010, 03:09 PM
I just was expressing my observations.
Here is what I actually posted.

Steelers' D wins the game?



That's when everyone said Pgh's D was way better, basically
mocking my assertion. And then I did point out how Saints'
passing D was significantly better, and, well, it ended up
being the difference in the game. Neither team could run
and NO's better pass D held us under 180 yards passing
and only 10 points on the board. They racked up 288 in
passing yards.

I'm not pleased I was right. But I also don't have to hide from
the assertion either.

Yes, I know...you were right, and speaking for myself, I never said you would be 100% wrong. All I did was point out that it's misleading to call a game when you're only basing your opinion off of overall stats. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you felt like I (or anyone else) was mocking your assertions, then you may need to grow a thicker skin. Most (if not all) were just reiterating what I've already stated a number of times, that overall stats are misleading, and sometimes you have to do some actual digging to find the stats that matter the most (i.e. ppg, points against, TO's, TDs allowed...stuff like that).

I respected (and still respect) your opinions on the matter, but was simply showing a different side to NFL.com overall stats. They don't ever tell the whole story. It worked out well for you this time, but I still stand by my statement that it is unwise to call a game by overall stats. I would bet you'd be wrong more times than you'd be right.

You also don't have to hide from your assertions either...just realize it makes you look like a pompous ass when you start a glory thread for yourself when all you were doing was stating an opinion that many other people shared with you.

That's all I really have to say about the whole thing though. Go on if you like, but most likely I'd just be repeating myself more from here on out.

thumper
11-02-2010, 04:55 PM
Yes, I know...you were right, and speaking for myself, I never said you would be 100% wrong. All I did was point out that it's misleading to call a game when you're only basing your opinion off of overall stats. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you felt like I (or anyone else) was mocking your assertions, then you may need to grow a thicker skin. Most (if not all) were just reiterating what I've already stated a number of times, that overall stats are misleading, and sometimes you have to do some actual digging to find the stats that matter the most (i.e. ppg, points against, TO's, TDs allowed...stuff like that).

I respected (and still respect) your opinions on the matter, but was simply showing a different side to NFL.com overall stats. They don't ever tell the whole story. It worked out well for you this time, but I still stand by my statement that it is unwise to call a game by overall stats. I would bet you'd be wrong more times than you'd be right.

You also don't have to hide from your assertions either...just realize it makes you look like a pompous ass when you start a glory thread for yourself when all you were doing was stating an opinion that many other people shared with you.

That's all I really have to say about the whole thing though. Go on if you like, but most likely I'd just be repeating myself more from here on out.

All stats need considered collectively, and even then, you need a deeper
understanding to really know the truth. For instance, some ints are not
the QB's fault, but if you only look at the box score without knowing the
pass bounced off the receiver's hands, then you don't realize that.

One of my points for some of the posters was that if Pgh is ranked as
the #1 D, they will bring that up, as significant. But then when they are
not ranked #1, you have to hear about how the ranking isn't that
meaningful, etc. I have seen it time and time again.

Just trying to keep it real.

The Saints' passing D was ranked significantly higher than Pgh. At the end
of the day, with both rushing attacks stymied, it came down to which passing
D was more effective. And as we all know, it was the Saints' passing D
that was superior (with some of that caused from them playing at
home in a loud dome, which is partly why I did feel NO would win the game.)

SteelCityMom
11-02-2010, 05:02 PM
All stats need considered collectively, and even then, you need a deeper
understanding to really know the truth. For instance, some ints are not
the QB's fault, but if you only look at the box score without knowing the
pass bounced off the receiver's hands, then you don't realize that.

One of my points for some of the posters was that if Pgh is ranked as
the #1 D, they will bring that up, as significant. But then when they are
not ranked #1, you have to hear about how the ranking isn't that
meaningful, etc. I have seen it time and time again.

Just trying to keep it real.

The Saints' passing D was ranked significantly higher than Pgh. At the end
of the day, with both rushing attacks stymied, it came down to which passing
D was more effective. And as we all know, it was the Saints' passing D
that was superior (with some of that caused from them playing at
home in a loud dome, which is partly why I did feel NO would win the game.)

I understood your point in regards to the Steelers D being ranked #1. Did you read my response to that at all?

I stated (correctly) that when the Steelers D was ranked number 1 they had all the other minute stats to go with it, including wins. Do you hear Chargers fans celebrating their 4 #1 overall stats (pass D and overall D included)? All those overall stats take into consideration is yards allowed really. And while that is a very good thing to have, it doesn't ever tell the whole story.

When the Steelers were 1st overall, they had some of the best stats across the line, that's why we, as fans, could boast about it. Had the defense had those overall rankings, but the Steelers team had a really crappy losing record, I don't think you'd hear many people boasting about it then.

thumper
11-02-2010, 08:08 PM
I understood your point in regards to the Steelers D being ranked #1. Did you read my response to that at all?

I stated (correctly) that when the Steelers D was ranked number 1 they had all the other minute stats to go with it, including wins. Do you hear Chargers fans celebrating their 4 #1 overall stats (pass D and overall D included)? All those overall stats take into consideration is yards allowed really. And while that is a very good thing to have, it doesn't ever tell the whole story.

When the Steelers were 1st overall, they had some of the best stats across the line, that's why we, as fans, could boast about it. Had the defense had those overall rankings, but the Steelers team had a really crappy losing record, I don't think you'd hear many people boasting about it then.

Kudos. You are right on all points. Seriously. Right on. True Steeler fan who knows their stuff.

Riddle_Of_Steel
11-03-2010, 04:11 PM
Don't kill the messenger.

All I did was accurately point this out.

Don't hate.

*sigh*....some people are just too self-important and have to "get off" by hearing themselves talk. I can never believe the sheer number of posters on message boards (not just this one) that are addicted to "being right" and having to have the right answer, even coming back afterwards to boast about how they were the only ones who made a prediction that everyone else was also talking about (DOWN BY LAW, thumper)...

Give it a rest....

thumper
11-03-2010, 06:43 PM
Don't kill the messenger.

All I did was accurately point this out.

Don't hate.

*sigh*....some people are just too self-important and have to "get off" by hearing themselves talk. I can never believe the sheer number of posters on message boards (not just this one) that are addicted to "being right" and having to have the right answer, even coming back afterwards to boast about how they were the only ones who made a prediction that everyone else was also talking about (DOWN BY LAW, thumper)...

Give it a rest....

I did give it a rest, but I can see the hypocrisy move of trying to re-ignite
a topic that had already been put on rest. Super. :wave:

MasterOfPuppets
11-03-2010, 07:02 PM
http://forum.ntreev.net/grandchase/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/10/7673.Have_5F00_a_5F00_cookie_5F00_by_5F00_Dannys_5 F00_angel.jpg

tony hipchest
11-03-2010, 07:16 PM
Don't kill the messenger.

All I did was accurately point this out.

Don't hate.

*sigh*....some people are just too self-important and have to "get off" by hearing themselves talk. I can never believe the sheer number of posters on message boards (not just this one) that are addicted to "being right" and having to have the right answer, even coming back afterwards to boast about how they were the only ones who made a prediction that everyone else was also talking about (DOWN BY LAW, thumper)...

Give it a rest....

i agree.

I did give it a rest, but I can see the hypocrisy move of trying to re-ignite
a topic that had already been put on rest. Super. :wave:since you did give it a rest, i guess its time to finally put this awful thread to rest...

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