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View Full Version : Adam Vinatieri a Colt


hardwork
03-21-2006, 04:46 PM
That's the word I'm hearing around Boston.

I should add, Jesus Christ.

WWIIOwheelz
03-21-2006, 05:10 PM
Source? Did Vanderjaggof get canned?

tony hipchest
03-21-2006, 05:15 PM
source? lol i had a feeling this might happen when they didnt shell out mega bucks for james. its probably worth an extra million a year to ditch vanderjact (next stop boston?) and twist the knife in the patriots back. this would probably be a great career move for vinatieri to move indoors, add an extra 5 yds or so to his kicks and not have the weather to deal with. little do the colts know is they wont have that belichick/brady pixie dust to sprinkle on his foot before every critical kick.

what ive been hearing on sirius is that the pats are just letting him shop around to set the market and then the pats will pretty much match the highest offer in hopes that its not more than it would be to franchise him and they save a few bucks. id be offended. pretty risky to not just deal with him up front and hope for a "were gonna win the next 5 championships" discount.

i think he goes back to the pats but it would definitely be a better story if he goes to indy. personally, if hes ever gonna win it again, id rather see him win another ring with indy, rather than with the pats. wouldnt that be funny seeing vinatieri kicking a game winning kick in foxboro for someone other than the pats?

hardwork
03-21-2006, 05:34 PM
The original source was WEEI Sports, but the rumor is all around Boston. However, I just heard that a "high ranking Colt official" says the report is "extremely inaccurate", but that they are in negotiations with Vinatieri, and won't have anything to say tonight. The Patriots know nothing about it, so they say.

And yes, Vinatieri has a new agent. Who according to the CBA rules, as a new agent for Adam, can't represent Vinatieri for 3 or 4 days.

SteelerzGirl
03-21-2006, 05:37 PM
Holy crap! I'd be shocked if he went to Indy! Wow!

tony hipchest
03-21-2006, 05:51 PM
The original source was WEEI Sports, but the rumor is all around Boston. However, I just heard that a "high ranking Colt official" says the report is "extremely inaccurate", but that they are in negotiations with Vinatieri, and won't have anything to say tonight. The Patriots know nothing about it, so they say.

And yes, Vinatieri has a new agent. Who according to the CBA rules, as a new agent for Adam, can't represent Vinatieri for 3 or 4 days.

on sportscenter they had "breaking news" that terms had been agreed to in principle, and john clayton reported that a deal could be done as soon as tonight. he then stated how vanderjact has got interrest with miami and that patriots and green bay could be leaning towards his services. he talked about adam like it was a done deal with the colts.

this still gives the pats an opportunity to ante up, although it will only cement brady and belichicks carreer if they let him go and can win one w/o him. patriots would have to swallow alot of pride and business philosophy to over pay for none other than a kicker.

very interesting

83-Steelers-43
03-21-2006, 06:11 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2378824

Suitanim
03-21-2006, 06:28 PM
Eh, not much difference here. The best kicker gets replaced by the second best kicker.

It will be interesting to see where Vanderjagt ends up...and, NO, the Steelers will not be signing him!

83-Steelers-43
03-21-2006, 06:38 PM
Vinatieri kicking in a dome. I'm sure he's happy about that.

hardwork
03-21-2006, 06:56 PM
The best kicker gets replaced by the second best kicker.

A little problem judging talent huh. No surprise there.

tony hipchest
03-21-2006, 07:27 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2378824after reading the article it sounds as if vinatieri knows something that the rest of patsnation dont. -that his best chances of playing for a winner is with the colts rather than the patriots (obviously, because the steelers arent about to waste that type of jack on a kicker, especially when they got a clutch kicker in the toughest stadium to kick in, of their own.) no way he would adam just leave just for the money and succomb to the patriots curse of "all players who leave for fair market value will suck once they depart".:cool:

Ambridge
03-21-2006, 08:18 PM
It will be interesting to see where Vanderjagt ends up...and, NO, the Steelers will not be signing him!

I thought I heard on NFL Total Access that the Pats have been talking to Vanderjagt????

Suitanim
03-21-2006, 08:19 PM
A little problem judging talent huh. No surprise there.

I'm pretty sure that Vanderjagt is the most accurate kicker in the history of the NFL.

If you know something different, please share with the rest of us...

Atlanta Dan
03-21-2006, 08:43 PM
Vinatieri going from outdoors to a dome has lot more upside than Vanderjagt going outside in the Northeast.

I would be very hesitant to sign the idiot kicker if my team played outdoors and it potentially got below freezing in my home town.

hardwork
03-21-2006, 08:46 PM
I'm pretty sure that Vanderjagt is the most accurate kicker in the history of the NFL.

If you know something different, please share with the rest of us...

The "rest of us"? I haven't heard anyone else make the same comment you did. I suspect the "rest of us" know better.

hardwork
03-21-2006, 08:58 PM
after reading the article it sounds as if vinatieri knows something that the rest of patsnation dont. -that his best chances of playing for a winner is with the colts rather than the patriots (obviously, because the steelers arent about to waste that type of jack on a kicker, especially when they got a clutch kicker in the toughest stadium to kick in, of their own.) no way he would adam just leave just for the money and succomb to the patriots curse of "all players who leave for fair market value will suck once they depart".:cool:


Another dumb post on this issue from a Steelers fan.

Suitanim
03-21-2006, 09:05 PM
The "rest of us"? I haven't heard anyone else make the same comment you did. I suspect the "rest of us" know better.

I subscribe to both "The Sporting News" and "ESPN The Magazine" and neiher of them had AV higher that MV...I've also seen nothing from any reputable source online that differed.

But, hey, regional bias is MY fault I guess, right?

The funny thing is I wasn't trying to be controversial at all, just state that the two were practically interchangable.

DIESELMAN
03-21-2006, 09:14 PM
Vanderjagt is 217 out of 248 for a 87.5% and 344 out of 346 xp's for a 99.4%
Vinatieri is 263 out of 321 for a 81.9% and 367 out of 374 xp's for a 98.1%
Now if your talking who's the best clutch kicker between the two thats a different story.

hardwork
03-21-2006, 09:15 PM
I subscribe to both "The Sporting News" and "ESPN The Magazine" and neiher of them had AV higher that MV...I've also seen nothing from any reputable source online that differed.

But, hey, regional bias is MY fault I guess, right?

The funny thing is I wasn't trying to be controversial at all, just state that the two were practically interchangable.

You don't need to subscribe to a magazine, or be from NE, to see what Vinatieri is.

Let me ask you Suit. If there are 15 seconds left on the clock, it's 18 degrees, the wind is blowing, you're at home, you're on your opponents 32 yard line, the score is 19 to 17 against you, you have to pick either AV or MV to make the kick for you, who do you pick?

hardwork
03-21-2006, 09:19 PM
Now if your talking who's the best clutch kicker between the two thats a different story.

Well, I mean of course. Why would you look at it any other way? The guy who can make the money kicks is the kicker you want. Who gives a **** about the stats?

tony hipchest
03-21-2006, 09:19 PM
Another dumb post on this issue from a Steelers fan. i can see where patfans would be a little on edge around this subject, after all, it is almost like the end of an era. kind of like if brady or belichick retiring or moving on.

it is not too "dumb" to think that vinatieri saw a team with a much better record, who advanced just as far into the playoffs as his beloved team, who very well couldve advanced into an overtime and a shot at the afc champ game with a player of his skills, and thought......"maybe ill make more $$$$ and have a better shot at winning with them".

like i said the deal aint done yet. pats still have a chance to step up to the plate and do the right thing.

hardwork
03-21-2006, 09:22 PM
i can see where patfans would be a little on edge around this subject, after all, it is almost like the end of an era. kind of like if brady or belichick retiring or moving on.

it is not too "dumb" to think that vinatieri saw a team with a much better record, who advanced just as far into the playoffs as his beloved team, who very well couldve advanced into an overtime and a shot at the afc champ game with a player of his skills, and thought......"maybe ill make more $$$$ and have a better shot at winning with them".

like i said the deal aint done yet. pats still have a chance to step up to the plate and do the right thing.

Even dumber.

tony hipchest
03-21-2006, 09:32 PM
Even dumber.youre probably right. i always did think vinatieri was nothing but a dumb jock with no TRUE skills. this move will definitely prove it. hes still got a chance to come to his senses and take that "winners discount".

but to put it into perspective, if i saw 15 $100 bills blowing in the wind and only caught 12 of them, i would atleast attempt to fetch the remaining 3.

kind of debunks the idea that all these patriots will accept veteran minimum to keep the dynasty alive.

he'll be back, dont worry.

hardwork
03-21-2006, 09:35 PM
youre probably right. i always did think vinatieri was nothing but a dumb jock with no TRUE skills. this move will definitely prove it. hes still got a chance to come to his senses and take that "winners discount".

but to put it into perspective, if i saw 15 $100 bills blowing in the wind and only caught 12 of them, i would atleast attempt to fetch the remaining 3.

kind of debunks the idea that all these patriots will accept veteran minimum to keep the dynasty alive.

he'll be back, dont worry.

And dumber still......

tony hipchest
03-21-2006, 09:44 PM
And dumber still...... yeah, that was dumb. he aint coming back.

Petesburgh66
03-21-2006, 11:00 PM
Adam Vinatieri a Colt = hahahahahaha. The league's second highest revenue generating team is too cheap to sign the game's best clutch kicker. Pathetic. Good luck replacing AV.

WWIIOwheelz
03-21-2006, 11:28 PM
Wasn't about the kicker at all. Peyton didn't like him, he got the boot. A move for team chemistry, nothing more.

AV has to be loving it, though.

hardwork
03-22-2006, 12:57 AM
Adam Vinatieri a Colt = hahahahahaha. The league's second highest revenue generating team is too cheap to sign the game's best clutch kicker. Pathetic. Good luck replacing AV.

The Patriots are 20 mil under the cap, and still have the games best clutch QB = hahahahaha

Livinginthe past
03-22-2006, 12:58 AM
This is certainly interesting news - as far as I can tell it is a done deal and AV is a Colt.

Im afraid I wont be wishing him luck on this career move - the same as if Givens had gone to Miami instead of the Browns - the Colts are still contenders and genuine rivals, although I dont expect them to be as good this year as last year without the Edge.

AV is the best kicker the game has seen - bearing in mind he has played alot of his career in a cold weather outdoor environment his stats top anyone else - especially anyone who has made a career out of kicking in windless warm artificial domes.

I dont think we will be looking at Vanderjagt - too much money for a guy who can't kick the big one.

NM

hardwork
03-22-2006, 01:06 AM
I dont think we will be looking at Vanderjagt - too much money for a guy who can't kick the big one.

NM

I agree. They may get their next kicker the same way they got Vinatieri, draft him.

Livinginthe past
03-22-2006, 01:14 AM
I agree. They may get their next kicker the same way they got Vinatieri, draft him.

Yeah its probably the only way to go - unfortunately there is probably no way to actually draft any type of player (even a kicker) and know that he will be good in the clutch - its the kind of thing that you only find out when the big game is on the line.

Personally I think we were fortunate to have the best big game QB and Kicker in the same team for a decent period of time.

Its time to reload and restock......

NM

Livinginthe past
03-22-2006, 03:08 AM
here's the perfect scenario.....patriots vs indy...at NE....the game is in O.T....patriots line up to attempt a 35 yarder....it's wide left for the new kicker......indy lines up for a 58 yard attempt.....vinatieri nails the 58 yarder and wins the game!!!!!!!! :tt03: :banana:

I can see how that might be an attractive day dream for you - it may even save Steeler fans the nightmare propostion of the Pats coming into town for a playoff game again.

Reminds me of a dream I had the other day : Pittsburgh hosts the the New England Patriots in a playoff game with Pitt huge favorites to win - Pittsburgh get flattened 41-27...oh wait...that one really happened :kick:

NM

Livinginthe past
03-22-2006, 03:28 AM
i hope that dream gets you threw next year. it may be the highlight of your season.

It will do - luckily I managed to get a copy of this dream on DVD.

NM

Atlanta Dan
03-22-2006, 06:53 AM
The Patriots are 20 mil under the cap, and still have the games best clutch QB = hahahahaha

Serious question for LITP and/or hardwork - what are the credible rumors regarding how the Pats intend to deploy the megamillions they have under the cap?

Do they have any major renegotiations coming up or is it anticipated they will make a move in the restricted FA market? They are still too good a team to sit on that pile of money.

As I have posted elsewhere, if Ike Taylor leaves this offseason I see New England as the likely destination.

Suitanim
03-22-2006, 07:50 AM
You don't need to subscribe to a magazine, or be from NE, to see what Vinatieri is.

Let me ask you Suit. If there are 15 seconds left on the clock, it's 18 degrees, the wind is blowing, you're at home, you're on your opponents 32 yard line, the score is 19 to 17 against you, you have to pick either AV or MV to make the kick for you, who do you pick?

I'd take Vinitari for that situation...but how many games are there like this? 1 in 30? 1 in 50?

I take the accurate kicker over the clutch 97 times out of 100.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
03-22-2006, 08:54 AM
If Vinatari had been with the colts in the playoffs there is no doubt that we would have gone into overtime.........maybe lost the game......

Suitanim
03-22-2006, 09:07 AM
IF the refs knew what an interception was, that game probably would have been a blowout.

If "if's" and "maybe's" were tinsel and holly, it'd be Christmas every day

Livinginthe past
03-22-2006, 09:53 AM
Serious question for LITP and/or hardwork - what are the credible rumors regarding how the Pats intend to deploy the megamillions they have under the cap?

Do they have any major renegotiations coming up or is it anticipated they will make a move in the restricted FA market? They are still too good a team to sit on that pile of money.

As I have posted elsewhere, if Ike Taylor leaves this offseason I see New England as the likely destination.

I am not too sure whether this is a case of saving money for a big money move this offseason.

I think a large part of it is that New England will have viewed last season as a failure and are taking this opportunity to clear out alot of the older guys.

There is no doubt that Vinatieri, McGinest and Givens have all been key contributors over the successful run of the last 5 years but they all have some major negative points in regards to keeping them.

McGinest - The guy seems ageless but he is surely going to run out of steam in the next couple of years - which is why NE won't pay for a 3 year contract up front.

Givens - the market for 2nd receivers went through the ceiling due to the Colts deal for Reggie Wayne. NE have Deion Branch to re-sign for next year and any large increase in the No.2 receivers salary is bound to have a a large effect on what the No.1 will be looking for.

Vinatieri - The best kicker in the game, but showed signs that he may have reached the peak of his abilities - miss some kicks last year that we would normally expect him to make - Bronco's game for example.

There is only one big name who could be the recipient of some of this money - Richard Seymour.

It is widely rumored that he close to signing a deal that will 'blow the minds' of New England fans - whether this means good value or huge numbers I am not sure.

Every year NE looks like it has been left behind in FA, every year they pick up enough bodies to make a credible run at the big prize.

I dont think Ike taylor will be a Patriot anytime soon - it doesnt fit with the overall pattern of what NE does in FA.

However, whenever you think that you have the BB/ Scott Pioli m.o. locked down - they do something unexpected - pick up character issue players or O-linemen in the first round.

So, I guess you never really know.

NM

tony hipchest
03-22-2006, 11:15 AM
Vinatieri - The best kicker in the game, but showed signs that he may have reached the peak of his abilities - miss some kicks last year that we would normally expect him to make - Bronco's game for example.


NMbelieve it or not kickers do miss kicks. wilkins and g. anderson are the only 2 to have a perfect season. so as great as he is (or was) hes not being resigned because of one choke against denver in the regular season? :dang: i think they have p. edinger coming in for a visit. atleast he has outside experience. but the pressure to live up to vinatieri, especially in clutch situations, is gonna be tough for any kicker to live up to, especially a rookie. vanderjact is the pats best option. they get the most accurate kicker in the game (clutch kicks isnt an official stat) and probably save half a mil to a mil / year. those frosted tips will look great in chilly foxboro.

damn i forgot vanderjagt had a perfect season too in 03

hardwork
03-22-2006, 11:44 AM
I'd take Vinitari for that situation...but how many games are there like this? 1 in 30? 1 in 50?

But if you're Pittsburgh, Green Bay, NE, NY, Chicago, Buffalo, etc., that's what you're looking at in Dec./Jan.

Anyway, they're both good, and I'll miss Vinatieri.

Cape Cod Steel Head
03-22-2006, 01:31 PM
The rats are jumping ship. Reguardless of what kind of spin you put on it this is a huge loss. It was the lead story on the 6 o clock news this morning, and I don't mind telling you the natives up here are getting a little restless.

hardwork
03-22-2006, 01:42 PM
The rats are jumping ship. Reguardless of what kind of spin you put on it this is a huge loss. It was the lead story on the 6 o clock news this morning, and I don't mind telling you the natives up here are getting a little restless.

Pure BS. The Patriots are just going about their business like they have over the past 6 years. They're not going to get emotional like the Celtics did when they kept McHale, Bird, and Parrish around long after they should have. They are looking down the road, which is exactly where you need to look.

Cape Cod Steel Head
03-22-2006, 01:54 PM
Pure BS. The Patriots are just going about their business like they have over the past 6 years. They're not going to get emotional like the Celtics did when they kept McHale, Bird, and Parrish around long after they should have. They are looking down the road, which is exactly where you need to look.You obviously weren't watching WBZ this morning. As for looking down the road I think I see another Lombardi Trophy.:bouncy:

hardwork
03-22-2006, 01:59 PM
You obviously weren't watching WBZ this morning. As for looking down the road I think I see another Lombardi Trophy.:bouncy:

Yeah, WBZ in the morning is a great place to look when you want to learn how to run a football team. Keep watching.

Cape Cod Steel Head
03-22-2006, 02:01 PM
Yeah, WBZ in the morning is a great place to look when you want to learn how to run a football team. Keep watching.Just telling you that it wasn't "B.S." But I bet your a Fox 25 kind of guy. Nuff said.

hardwork
03-22-2006, 02:08 PM
Just telling you that it wasn't "B.S." But I bet your a Fox 25 kind of guy. Nuff said.

Lol, yeah sure, whatever the hell that means.

hardwork
03-22-2006, 02:17 PM
The Patriots franchised Vinatieri twice. No surprise Adam didn't like that. But, they weren't paying him chump change, and the CBA allows for franchising. I wish Adam well, except when he plays us, and thank him for the memories. Further, I hope for his sake he gets into the Hall of Fame. I think he deserves it.

tony hipchest
03-22-2006, 02:53 PM
this just makes it imperative to keep doug "drop kick" flutie around for another year. atleast extra points will be covered.

tony hipchest
03-22-2006, 06:53 PM
great local article on how "millions of people throughout new england felt" with vinatieri leaving to the colts:

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=131613

and an exerpt:


"the difference between the money in Indy and Foxboro wound up being chump change against Bill Belichick’s salary cap and relative nickels against Bob Kraft’s bottom line. Perhaps the best clutch kicker in the history of the NFL and one of the most popular athletes Boston ever has known now is wearing enemy colors because the Pats refused to budge off their hard-line philosophy.

You can call Belichick and Scott Pioli consistent (although you’d be overrating that; more below). I call them stubborn, foolishly so in this case.

Vinatieri agreed to a multi-year deal that reportedly comes with a $3.5 million signing bonus and is worth $2.5 million a season over the first three years of the deal. When all the numbers are factored in, Vinatieri’s average annual cap value will fall in the $3 million range. The NFL salary cap will be $102 million in 2006 and $109 million in 2007. The Pats currently enjoy around $19 million in cap space. Kraft brings in over $250 million in revenue a year. We could run Vinatieri’s percentages for you, but you get the point.

It’s chicken feed."


bwock bwock



and another:

"But remember, their record of picking players has been more spotty than fans recognize. Last year’s haul - Chad Brown, Monty Beisel, David Terrell, Starks - is a good example. And if anyone can give me an explanation why Starks was worth $3.5 million but Vinatieri wasn’t, I want to hear it."


this articles loaded with them:

"But if the Pats are so bent on consistency, then how do you explain what happened with Corey Dillon last year? Entering the final year of his contract at a fair price of just over $3 million, the Pats felt the need to lavish a multi-year extension on the 31-year-old running back that guaranteed him $10 million over two years. The Pats then watched in horror as Dillon aged in front of their eyes."



"So how you feel about this move comes down to what you trust more: the judgment of Belichick and Pioli or the accuracy of Vinatieri’s right leg. They’re both pretty good, but if you run the numbers you’ll find the percentages favor Adam.

In the meantime, be sure to clean the puke off your shoes."




i can understand the steelers letting el go but this baffles me.

PisnNapalm
03-22-2006, 07:01 PM
I don't understand the Pats on this. Vini is one of the best kickers ever and a legend in New England. Pay the guy and let him play out his career as a Patriot.

It's damn foolish and could come back to haunt them in the post season.

WWIIOwheelz
03-22-2006, 07:20 PM
I honestly can't believe that. It reminds me quite a bit of what every, and I mean EVERY Steelers fan was thinking last year when the Steelers were holding out on renegotiating with Hines. After a certain point, even the biggest penny pinchers were saying, "It's Hines. Pay the guy." And it STILL went to training camp before it was resolved. Steelers DIE-hards were openly questioning the Rooneys about it, albeit quietly.

Certain players become fixtures with the franchise, we all know that, and not the one who gets that ridiculous label. Hines, Big Ben, and Polamalu are all on the Black & Gold's short list, and Joey Porter isn't far behind. Viatieri absolutely should've been on that same list of the Patriots.

3 to be 4
03-22-2006, 08:05 PM
Just telling you that it wasn't "B.S." But I bet your a Fox 25 kind of guy. Nuff said.

I love Boston media arguements.

hey guys, ive missed the talk. arrived in KC last week. most bizarre 2 weeks of my life. im the middle of the move my mother passed away. 2 days before our movers were scheduled to arrive in SC i got the call that she was fading. I flew up to New England to see her, flew back on Saturday to Columbia, drove 80 miles to Florence, got the family, turened around, and drove 300 miles west to Atlanta. When we were in St Louis i got word she had passed away.
im still a little stunned.

as far as the Patriots, part of me is mortified at the loss of McGinest,Givens, and possibly Vinatieri. THe other part that believes in the mantra "In Bill We Trust" admires the ruthlessness that kept emotions out of it and evaluated it purely on easch players value at his position for this point in his career. its the discipline that will get them 20 million under, will keep them strong for years and years as they stay young and in position to target the FA's they want, while keeping the superstars like Brady,SEymour, and Branch.
But man, i would miss Adam.

hardwork
03-22-2006, 08:15 PM
You guys are a riot. David Givens is the one some people are worried might have been a mistake, not Vinatieri. Further Kraft has nothing to do with any of these moves. If he had McGinest would never have left. He's distraught about that, but he knows you leave the football operations to those who have won 3 out of the last 5 SB.

3 to be 4
03-22-2006, 08:16 PM
so ive been out of the loop, who are they targeting to replace Givens?

hardwork
03-22-2006, 08:26 PM
so ive been out of the loop, who are they targeting to replace Givens?


I'm not sure 3 to be 4. I think they have some FAs coming in later in the week. But I liked Givens, and he'll be a no. 1 receiver I think before long.

tony hipchest
03-22-2006, 08:27 PM
my condolences to you and your family.

as far as the pats, i thought all the cap space was for t.o., the uncoachable l. arrington and vanderjerk to fill those holes.

t.o. is in dallas, but in the famous words of meatloaf...."2 out of 3 aint bad"

3 to be 4
03-22-2006, 08:28 PM
yeah, i agree. he was clutch and a selfless team player and blocker. a poor mans Hines Ward if you ask me. I'll always remember the drive against the Panthers in SB 38 that put them up 29-22. He made some great plays.

tony hipchest
03-22-2006, 08:43 PM
I'm not sure 3 to be 4. I think they have some FAs coming in later in the week. But I liked Givens, and he'll be a no. 1 receiver I think before long. only if he gets traded to san fransisco. i dont think receiving tandems like l. fitzgerald and a. boldin need to feel to threatened for their jobs.

givens had the league leader in passing yards for a qb and didnt exactly put up r. wayne, m. harrison or even b. stokely #'s from the previous year.

the steelers #2/3 wr (pittsburghs not exactly known as a passing team) got a much bigger deal as a free agent.

as far as character, and what a great guy he is.....t.o. will make $10 mil. as a #1

givens will fall into the d. mason, d. hayes, j. thash category of being a #1.

him as a #1 is complete absurdity. its like me thinking bobby shaw would be a #1 if he went and played with brett farve.



anyways, i think keyshawn is scheduled to visit the pats this week a significant upgrade imo.

DIESELMAN
03-22-2006, 10:12 PM
I love Boston media arguements.

hey guys, ive missed the talk. arrived in KC last week. most bizarre 2 weeks of my life. im the middle of the move my mother passed away. 2 days before our movers were scheduled to arrive in SC i got the call that she was fading. I flew up to New England to see her, flew back on Saturday to Columbia, drove 80 miles to Florence, got the family, turened around, and drove 300 miles west to Atlanta. When we were in St Louis i got word she had passed away.
im still a little stunned.

as far as the Patriots, part of me is mortified at the loss of McGinest,Givens, and possibly Vinatieri. THe other part that believes in the mantra "In Bill We Trust" admires the ruthlessness that kept emotions out of it and evaluated it purely on easch players value at his position for this point in his career. its the discipline that will get them 20 million under, will keep them strong for years and years as they stay young and in position to target the FA's they want, while keeping the superstars like Brady,SEymour, and Branch.
But man, i would miss Adam.

Sorry to hear about your mom I hope you and your family are making it through that ok.God Bless.....:helmet:

Petesburgh66
03-22-2006, 10:25 PM
The Patriots are 20 mil under the cap, and still have the games best clutch QB = hahahahaha

Big freaking deal. They have done nothing to improve themselves in the off season.

hardwork
03-23-2006, 12:40 AM
Big freaking deal. They have done nothing to improve themselves in the off season.

Thanks for your concern, very nice of you, but I suspect they'll be OK.

Love and XXXXs, Hardwork

Livinginthe past
03-23-2006, 01:16 AM
believe it or not kickers do miss kicks. wilkins and g. anderson are the only 2 to have a perfect season. so as great as he is (or was) hes not being resigned because of one choke against denver in the regular season? :dang: i think they have p. edinger coming in for a visit. atleast he has outside experience. but the pressure to live up to vinatieri, especially in clutch situations, is gonna be tough for any kicker to live up to, especially a rookie. vanderjact is the pats best option. they get the most accurate kicker in the game (clutch kicks isnt an official stat) and probably save half a mil to a mil / year. those frosted tips will look great in chilly foxboro.

damn i forgot vanderjagt had a perfect season too in 03

Its pretty black and white I think.

The Patriots simply do not think that AV is worth the money he wanted to paid, which means they obviously think no kicker is worth it.

Every year the Pats have faced these tough decisions - and they aren't afraid to make the unpopular decision to do what is best for the team.

I remember all the fuss about the Patriots cutting Troy Brown a year or two back - I think that one worked out ok.

Clutch kicks may not be official stats but they definitely are a researchable stat - what use is Vanderjagt's 100% completion rate in the regular season if he misses the big one in the playoffs?

The guy is a proven misser of big kicks - why on earth would the Patriots invest relatively large money in him?

Sure its going to be tough for the new guy - rookie or not - but that is life - teams who have success eventually have to replace parts of the success-making machinery.

Lawyer Milloy and Ty Law spring to mind.

The outcry of the Boston media after the Patriots were beat up 31-0 by the Bills in the first game of Milloy's Bills career was something to behold - fake stories about how the Pats team hated BB magically appeared in the national media....its all part of the circus that follows a winning team.

Most people had forgotten the outcry by the time the Pats had gotten around to dishing out their own 31-0 hammering of the Bills at the tail end of the season - on their way to another SB victory I might add.

If fans were in control of the team - then the NFL would be made up of 32 Washington Redskins - all going crazy for over-priced FA's.

NM

Livinginthe past
03-23-2006, 01:40 AM
great local article on how "millions of people throughout new england felt" with vinatieri leaving to the colts:

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=131613

and an exerpt:


"the difference between the money in Indy and Foxboro wound up being chump change against Bill Belichick’s salary cap and relative nickels against Bob Kraft’s bottom line. Perhaps the best clutch kicker in the history of the NFL and one of the most popular athletes Boston ever has known now is wearing enemy colors because the Pats refused to budge off their hard-line philosophy.

You can call Belichick and Scott Pioli consistent (although you’d be overrating that; more below). I call them stubborn, foolishly so in this case.

Vinatieri agreed to a multi-year deal that reportedly comes with a $3.5 million signing bonus and is worth $2.5 million a season over the first three years of the deal. When all the numbers are factored in, Vinatieri’s average annual cap value will fall in the $3 million range. The NFL salary cap will be $102 million in 2006 and $109 million in 2007. The Pats currently enjoy around $19 million in cap space. Kraft brings in over $250 million in revenue a year. We could run Vinatieri’s percentages for you, but you get the point.

It’s chicken feed."


bwock bwock



and another:

"But remember, their record of picking players has been more spotty than fans recognize. Last year’s haul - Chad Brown, Monty Beisel, David Terrell, Starks - is a good example. And if anyone can give me an explanation why Starks was worth $3.5 million but Vinatieri wasn’t, I want to hear it."


this articles loaded with them:

"But if the Pats are so bent on consistency, then how do you explain what happened with Corey Dillon last year? Entering the final year of his contract at a fair price of just over $3 million, the Pats felt the need to lavish a multi-year extension on the 31-year-old running back that guaranteed him $10 million over two years. The Pats then watched in horror as Dillon aged in front of their eyes."



"So how you feel about this move comes down to what you trust more: the judgment of Belichick and Pioli or the accuracy of Vinatieri’s right leg. They’re both pretty good, but if you run the numbers you’ll find the percentages favor Adam.

In the meantime, be sure to clean the puke off your shoes."




i can understand the steelers letting el go but this baffles me.

This is the kind of revisionist history that the Boston media absolutely specialises in.

If it wasn't so sad that a home town paper would keep putting this stuff out there it would be funny.

Its very easy for Mr Felger to sit there at the seasons end and lambast the SP/BB team for some FA moves that didnt work out.

The comparison he makes in hindsight about the comparative values of Starks and AV makes me laugh - starting corners (thats what the Pats thought they were acquiring) are worth alot more, play alot more downs than a kicker.

Starks spent pretty much the whole season injured - fully healthy who knows what he might have achieved.

Chad Brown is a guy who could have given us a nice rotation option at OLB - unfortunately Tedy Bruschi would miss the first 6 games and our other established ILB - Ted Johnson retired on the eve of the season giving the Pats no chance to cover his absence - this forced CB inside - where he is clearly not suited.

I expect some good things from Beisel this year - alot of Patriot nation has written him off already - but I seen enough when he was playing in a team that wasn't on its knees due to multiple injuries to make me believe he can be a good acquistion for us.

The comparison of Dillon with AV is again laughable - a RB who has run for a career best 1600yds and led you to the SB the previous year is worth alot more to the team than a place kicker.

Dillon not only eats up the clock, but he takes the heat off Brady and improves the efficiency of the play action pass.

Of course none of this worked out last year due to the injury bug that swept the Patriots locker room - if a fully healthy Dillon had compiled them stats I would agree with the writer, as it is he wasn't...so I dont.

Who do I trust SP/BB or AV? Another idle comparison - if SP/BB hadn't done their jobs so well for the last 5 years the Pats would not have been regular visitors to the post season and winners of the SB - regardless of how many FG's and XP's MR Vinatieri kicked.

I'll stack my chips with the guys with their eyes on the big picture - SP and BB.

NM

Livinginthe past
03-23-2006, 02:01 AM
Here is a little perspective offered by another member of the media.

Its a good read and covers some of the areas I outlined above.

http://www.ecnnews.com/cgi-bin/15/etstory.pl?-sec-Sports+fn-fn-burtet.0322-20060322-fn+page_0

NM

DIESELMAN
03-23-2006, 02:44 AM
The Patriots entertained free agent kicker Paul Edinger on Tuesday. No contract offer was made, however, and New England may still be considering former Colts kicker Mike Vanderjagt, according to the Boston Herald.Edinger probably makes the most sense for the Patriots, given his ability to kick in cold weather from his days as a Chicago Bear, and given the fact that most Patriots fans would probably kill themselves if the hated Vanderjagt was brought in. Edinger has been accurate on about 75 percent of his kicks and probably would come cheaper than Vanderjagt as well.

hardwork
03-23-2006, 04:36 AM
If fans were in control of the team - then the NFL would be made up of 32 Washington Redskins - all going crazy for over-priced FA's.

NM

That's right, and/or they'd all be weighed down by sentimental favorites.

The reality is this is a business, and decisions have to made in regards to what is in the best interest of the business, the team, itself.

Further, you run into this all your life. School friends move away. Then you leave high school and go to college. The you leave those friends and go to work. Then people go to other businesses, or get fired. Then your kids grow up and leave. Then your parents die. Etc.

Anyway, a lot of what's written on this thread by Steeler fans is just a way to take a shot at the Patriots. It has nothing to do with Adam Vinatieri.

Sometimes you have to point out the obvious I guess.

Livinginthe past
03-23-2006, 04:48 AM
That's right, and/or they'd all be weighed down by sentimental favorites.

The reality is this is a business, and decisions have to made in regards to what is in the best interest of the business, the team, itself.

Further, you run into this all your life. School friends move away. Then you leave high school and go to college. The you leave those friends and go to work. Then people go to other businesses, or get fired. Then your kids grow up and leave. Then your parents die. Etc.

Anyway, a lot of what's written on this thread by Steeler fans is just a way to take a shot at the Patriots. It has nothing to do with Adam Vinatieri.

Sometimes you have to point out the obvious I guess.

Sure I can see that a few of the Steeler fans are just using this subject as bait - luckily subtlety isn't a fort? with these guys so its all pretty transparent and harmless.

A couple of the guys might be interested in a Pats fans opinion on it - so its worth replying.

Its amazing how many people will say "in BB we trust" - normally right before they demonstrate how little faith they have - this is rife over on the Patriots board.

NM

Suitanim
03-23-2006, 08:09 AM
hey guys, ive missed the talk. arrived in KC last week. most bizarre 2 weeks of my life. im the middle of the move my mother passed away. 2 days before our movers were scheduled to arrive in SC i got the call that she was fading. I flew up to New England to see her, flew back on Saturday to Columbia, drove 80 miles to Florence, got the family, turened around, and drove 300 miles west to Atlanta. When we were in St Louis i got word she had passed away.
im still a little stunned.



Sorry for your loss...

3 to be 4
03-23-2006, 10:28 AM
thanks again for the kinds words guys. sometimes im wondering "why am i so down?" then i have to remind myself - oh yeah, you're Mom died?? I still havent cried.
I suspect once the move settles down and i have some time and space it will sink in.

as for the topic...... Im for bringing Edinger in to replace Vinatieri. And im wondering about Eric Moulds as a complement to Branch.

Livinginthe past
03-23-2006, 10:39 AM
thanks again for the kinds words guys. sometimes im wondering "why am i so down?" then i have to remind myself - oh yeah, you're Mom died?? I still havent cried.
I suspect once the move settles down and i have some time and space it will sink in.

as for the topic...... Im for bringing Edinger in to replace Vinatieri. And im wondering about Eric Moulds as a complement to Branch.

Mould woulds be a nice pick up if he is willing to take a discount to play for a contender.

The same applies to Edinger - he might be nice short term solution until we can pick someone up through the draft - maybe with one of those multiple comp picks we have this year.

Maybe Bethel Johnson wil respond well to moving up the depth chart - we all know this guys has speed to burn its about time his route running and consistency matured also.

NM

3 to be 4
03-23-2006, 11:10 AM
I dont trust that Johnson has a head for being a starting WR on a contending team. They need to bring in somebody solid, ala Harold Jackson in 1978 when Stingley got hurt.
THey also need to do something solid at LB, a position they have been thin at anyway. Maybe with Colvin,Bruschi, and Vrabel they are thinking of going to a 4-3 with Warren,Seymour,Wilfork, and Green available on the DL. But in any case they need to get younger there through the draft and sign some veteran depth.

tony hipchest
02-06-2007, 12:31 PM
this thread was a hoot. so much for the "baiting" and "revisionist history" spin. i sure hope the few kids who are still posting on a patsboard arent kicking around hardwork to hard.after reading the article it sounds as if vinatieri knows something that the rest of patsnation dont. -that his best chances of playing for a winner is with the colts rather than the patriots (obviously, because the steelers arent about to waste that type of jack on a kicker, especially when they got a clutch kicker in the toughest stadium to kick in, of their own.) no way he would adam just leave just for the money and succomb to the patriots curse of "all players who leave for fair market value will suck once they depart".:cool:

Another dumb post on this issue from a Steelers fan.

congrats to vinatieri who joins elite rank of those with 4 rings. he must be deservedly laughing all the way to the bank and jeweler's. the confidence and experience he brought to the colts was much more valuable than the clutch kicks he was never asked to deliver.

klick81
02-06-2007, 12:40 PM
this thread was a hoot. so much for the "baiting" and "revisionist history" spin. i sure hope the few kids who are still posting on a patsboard arent kicking around hardwork to hard.



congrats to vinatieri who joins elite rank of those with 4 rings. he must be deservedly laughing all the way to the bank and jeweler's. the confidence and experience he brought to the colts was much more valuable than the clutch kicks he was never asked to deliver.

Daaaaaaamn...i hadn't even thought about Vinatieri. Wow...what success this guy has found.

PisnNapalm
02-06-2007, 12:44 PM
Vanderjerk has to be near suicide right now. http://www.bomberboys.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/cliff.gif

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-06-2007, 12:46 PM
You gotta believe that somebody somehere is already chiseling away on his HOF bust!!

polamalufan43
02-06-2007, 12:48 PM
HAHAHAHAHA. I bet that Vanderjagt is kicking himself now....

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-06-2007, 12:48 PM
Vanderjerk has to be near suicide right now. http://www.bomberboys.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/cliff.gif

Same old joke...he tried to shoot himself in the head..and the bullet went far right. :dang:

polamalufan43
02-06-2007, 12:50 PM
Same old joke...he tried to shoot himself in the head..and the bullet went far right. :dang:

:sofunny:
Wow. Right about now i'm actually feeling alittle sorry for him. If he didn't let his nerves get the best of him he might have been a champion right now.
~Polamalufan43:tt02:

memphissteelergirl
02-06-2007, 02:48 PM
You gotta believe that somebody somehere is already chiseling away on his HOF bust!!

No doubt!

fansince'76
02-06-2007, 02:51 PM
Vanderjerk has to be near suicide right now. http://www.bomberboys.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/cliff.gif

Forget Vandershank - how about Edge? The only reason he isn't still with Indy is because of greed, not non-performance, as was the case with Vandershank.

PisnNapalm
02-06-2007, 04:53 PM
Edge... Plaxico... Would they rather have the money or a ring. Vinatieri got both.

SuckItUp
02-08-2007, 03:45 PM
Yup. Best kicker EVER! Hinesight proves the obvious. It was extremely near sighted on the part of the Pats to let such a proven commodity leave.

This is up there with letting Branch leave. If he was still there against the Colts there probably would have been no dropped passes to a wide open reciever in the end zone, and who knows...there may have even been a need for a clutch kick in the end. Now I can see why Brady was so upset to see him go.

Livinginthe past
02-08-2007, 08:33 PM
Yup. Best kicker EVER! Hinesight proves the obvious. It was extremely near sighted on the part of the Pats to let such a proven commodity leave.

This is up there with letting Branch leave. If he was still there against the Colts there probably would have been no dropped passes to a wide open reciever in the end zone, and who knows...there may have even been a need for a clutch kick in the end. Now I can see why Brady was so upset to see him go.

The one thing that the Patriots dont regret is letting Vinatieri go - they didnt lose a single game because they had a rookie kicker.

In fact if you look at the below table, you'll see that only one of the two kickers was perfect in the postseason - and it wasn't AV.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h218/n_mckeown/kick1.jpg

The Branch episode has been done to death, and there were no dropped passes in the endzone that actually cost the Patriots points - just the single wideopen play when Caldwell was on the sidelines.

Dont let facts get in the way of a good argument though :wink02:

NM