PDA

View Full Version : Stefan Logan vs. Sanders/Brown


tony hipchest
11-04-2010, 10:18 PM
since its midway through the season, and since i dont watch any lions games (only see the highlights) i wanted to see how logan measures up and is doing. ive seen several highlights of him looking even better than he did last year... which is not suprising being that even detroit is better than last years ST unit coached by ligashitthebedsky.

here is what the stats show-

23 KO RET/678 YDS/29.5 AVG.......... 14 PR/184YDS/13.1 AVG

tied for 2nd in the league for total return yards = 862.

his average/KO is 6th in the league (only 2 regular returners with more than 18 attempts are higher).

he is 1 of 4 players who is the primary kick off AND punt return specialist for their team.





before the preseason games began, i started a thread on a different board i used to post on with the premise that it could possibly be a mistake to cut a potential pro bowl return specialist in favor of the upside of 2 rookie return specialists and ace college wr's.

this was my case-

Expect HUGE returns from Stefan Logan

-i think through camp and the preseason games, he will prove to be our best and most valuable returner.

-he set a steelers record for return yards last year and had pro bowl top of the league stats.

-he may still have superstar potential as a return ace with proper coaching and ST schemes. definitely something worth watching and rooting for. you never wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater even if he is 1 dimensional. do you cut next years AFC pro bowl return specialist representative in favor of a developmental wr just because he is 1 dimensional?

-logan was third in total return yardage last year 55/1466 +30/280 in punts. he was behind danny amendola and josh cribbs.

-his long was 83 yds with no td scored. if properly blocked there is absolutely no way anyone catches him from behind. i am of the opinion he was almost working miracles in a shitty scheme.
All things considered, kick returner Stefan Logan had an excellent first season with the Steelers.
A workhorse on special teams who returned kickoffs as well as punts and also recorded 12 tackles, the smallish Logan (5-foot-6, 180 pounds) made his biggest impact on kickoff returns in 2009. He broke the Steelers' single-season record for kickoff return yards (1,466) and ranked second in the AFC with a 26.7-yard average.
...
In 15 games as the Steelers' primary kickoff returner, Logan didn't have a return of less than 24 yards.
"He's shown the ability to make people miss," new special teams coach Al Everest said. "He can break arm tackles. He's a small guy, but he's a sturdy guy."
...
"I looked at his tape and saw a lot of really good things," Everest said. "Job No. 1 is catching the ball. Ball security has been a focus for us."


anyone remember the rookie tandem of s. holmes and w. reid? they easilly had more fumbles and dropped balls than TD's.

sanders and brown could both put 1-2 on the ground yet still be fine candidates for WR. logan could easilly run 1-2 to the house yet not have a shot in hell of being the #5 wr or back on the roster.

who do you keep?

tony hipchest
11-04-2010, 10:21 PM
so in retrospect half way through the season, did the coaching staff make a mistake, or with the 2 rookies hands of glue, is it a wash?

the bad news- it looks like we indeed cut this years NFC pro bowl return specialist.

the good news- a. brown is 4th in the league with his 30+ yd avg on KO returns and e. sanders is 11th.

Merchant
11-04-2010, 11:11 PM
I'll put it this way..

If it were up to me to either Cut the NFC Pro-Bowl Return Man.. or Cut either Sanders or Brown

...I'd cut the NFC Pro-Bowl Return Man

I like these two kids that much.

ZoneBlitzer
11-04-2010, 11:26 PM
The Steelers value versatility above all else. And that's where Logan was the odd man out. Having said that, I would've liked to see them at least try to get him more involved in the offense when he was with the club. He's the type of player that you should be bubble screening to.

MikeHaullace
11-05-2010, 12:20 AM
I'll put it this way..

If it were up to me to either Cut the NFC Pro-Bowl Return Man.. or Cut either Sanders or Brown

...I'd cut the NFC Pro-Bowl Return Man

I like these two kids that much.

This pretty much sums up my sentiment.

First, don't get me wrong : I think Logan is explosive and fun to watch indeed.

He's also 29 years old and only in his 2nd season. Late starter. How long will he have his speed? And being 5"6". Will he be able to maintain?

I'll take both Brown and Sanders over Logan any day because for one, they both show the same explosiveness. On top of that, Sanders has potential to be a really decent receiver. No idea how he's being used in Detroit, but don't really remember Logan playing in anything other than nickel and dime packages with Pittsburgh.

Sidetrack : I'm also waiting for Tomlin and Arians to realize how much ARE sucks and goes with a 4-wide set with Wallace, Ward, and them. Toss Miller in the mix, and that seems tough to stop, assuming Ben gets protection.

(back on track)

I really didn't see all that much from Logan last season. Sure, he popped one in the pre-season. But really, that was it. If he did in the regular season, I certainly don't remember it. A handful of 30+ runs for sure.

Brown has already showed he can hit the homerun on KR. Sanders showed a lot of promise against NO sans the fumbles. I mean, I kind of like that, when he fumbles, it's above-and-beyond effort trying to make a play. That said, two arms in traffic, Sanders. Now do work! :tt03:

(Tomlin and Arians: Your move. ಠ_ಠ)

tony hipchest
11-05-2010, 12:45 AM
my final take before the final cuts was that the steelers were in an unfortunate position (and a great situation).

i was certain that logan would be playing near the league leading, pro bowl level that he is (one only needs to watch his highlights, look at the stats, and consider he is no longer part of the shittiest ST led by the crappiest ST coach in the league.)

but how fortunate are the steelers that they can cut an almost slam dunk pro bowl player with the opportunity to upgrade? (we pretty much did the same with sean morey).

i fully endorsed keeping sanders (for sure) and brown, and so far i would say their potential upside outweighs what logan is bringing to his new team.

FWIW logan has more touches than mike wallace this season. :dang:

MikeHaullace
11-05-2010, 01:15 AM
FWIW logan has more touches than mike wallace this season.

You have to kind of keep it in perspective though.

Logan plays for the Detroit Lions. What are they known for? Losing. How do you lose? You get out-scored. What happens when you get out-scored? You return a ****-ton of kicks.

Enter ~62% of his touches.

0% are as a receiver.

Also, Mike Wallace was at the mercy of a rush-heavy offense through three of the seven played.

Not a really fair FWIW, bro.

tony hipchest
11-05-2010, 01:44 AM
You have to kind of keep it in perspective though.

Logan plays for the Detroit Lions. What are they known for? Losing. How do you lose? You get out-scored. What happens when you get out-scored? You return a ****-ton of kicks.

Enter ~62% of his touches.

0% are as a receiver.

Also, Mike Wallace was at the mercy of a rush-heavy offense through three of the seven played.

Not a really fair FWIW, bro.

actually, when it comes to keeping things in perspective it is very fair.

sanders has a paltry 17 receptions this season plus a few boneheaded failed reverses.

how many receptions are brown and sanders gonna get when our #2 guy has 17 through 7 games?

wallace is at the same mercy of the same rush-heavy offense that sanders and brown were when they made the final 53 and logan was cut.

if you are in the logan camp, you already know there is no way brown (or even sanders) can match his production, unless there is significant injury.

but i see the steelers working....

a returner is the least of their concerns when they are preparing for the loss of sweed, holmes, potential cutting of el and battle, and the possible retirement of ward.

like i said, i support the cutting of logan. but not because we have upgraded for this season.

we basically sacrificed a bit in the return game for good looking wr help next year and beyond.

as for your "detroit getting outscored" theory, it doesnt hold much water. detroit has fielded 24 KO opportunities. logan has taken 23.

the steelers have 20 (brown-7/sanders-11).

all things being equal, their average will still be their average (top 5-10 or so)

MikeHaullace
11-05-2010, 02:13 AM
No offense but, did you even read my post and try to correlate its contents to how it relates to what you typed? :noidea:

as for your "detroit getting outscored" theory, it doesnt hold much water. detroit has fielded 24 KO opportunities. logan has taken 23.

the steelers have 20 (brown-7/sanders-11).

First, your FWIW had no mention of Brown or Sanders.

Second, the quote is the foundation under the table under that glass of water.

What I was alluding to, and my apologies if I was too vague, was that Logan is their primary return man and fields almost *every single kick after a score*. The Steelers, however, do not have a dedicated return man. I would imagine Wallace would have 14-17 more touches than Logan if he were the sole KR for Pittsburgh.

actually, when it comes to keeping things in perspective it is very fair.

sanders has a paltry 17 receptions this season plus a few boneheaded failed reverses.

I'm pretty confident Sanders wasn't the sole reason the reverses failed. Both looked poorly designed, poorly timed, and poorly executed. Because of such, moot and frankly irrelevant point.

As far as the 'paltry' 17 catches : Well... Sanders has four. So yeah, I'll be that guy and point out that you meant Wallace.

That said, now I have to go back and see if it was Sanders or Wallace, both, or either, with the reverses. Good thing I have all games ready to fire up at will.

Back on track ... Let's be real : Sanders has also made some big 3rd down catches and has so far displayed he doesn't have Plexi-glass (see: Burress) hands. He's made me say "nice catch, kid" more than once.

His fumbles are a result of an excited kid, making a big play, trying to make it into something more. This can be coached; forgetting to protect the ball. Tell me this: Have you been worried about Rashard holding onto the ball with any frequency this season? Yeah. Me neither. He has been protecting the ball very well.

Take the good with the bad.

Keeping Sanders : good.

Having Brown as well : better.

Arguing on the internet : bad.

DanRooney
11-05-2010, 06:04 AM
No need to worry guys, we got to keep Arnaz Battle :tt03: I've never seen him on the field in the regular season, but he makes sweet youtube videos!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C2OyPpxV_4

MasterOfPuppets
11-05-2010, 10:43 AM
so in retrospect half way through the season, did the coaching staff make a mistake, or with the 2 rookies hands of glue, is it a wash?

the bad news- it looks like we indeed cut this years NFC pro bowl return specialist.

the good news- a. brown is 4th in the league with his 30+ yd avg on KO returns and e. sanders is 11th.
yep , they sure did. but the mistake wasn't keeping brown or sanders , it was signing both EL , and battle. what a freakin waste of money ...:doh:

lionslicer
11-05-2010, 11:57 AM
Logan isn't a good reciever though. Brown and Sanders both are better now than Logan ever will be. I'm not even sure what position he officially plays.

lionslicer
11-05-2010, 12:02 PM
yep , they sure did. but the mistake wasn't keeping brown or sanders , it was signing both EL , and battle. what a freakin waste of money ...:doh:

I think they signed Battle because they weren't sure if Brown and Sanders would just be busts or not. A lot of GM's do this because they want to cover their ass. Obviously as Steeler fans we see everything Steelers do and not really pay attention to who anyone else signs, but many teams sign older recievers who have proven they can play the game, they may not be starters, but they aren't terrible. Though the mistake was going as high priced as Battle. There are other vets out there would would go for a lot cheaper. Colbert doesn't seem to know how to shop around.

MasterOfPuppets
11-05-2010, 02:42 PM
I think they signed Battle because they weren't sure if Brown and Sanders would just be busts or not. A lot of GM's do this because they want to cover their ass. Obviously as Steeler fans we see everything Steelers do and not really pay attention to who anyone else signs, but many teams sign older recievers who have proven they can play the game, they may not be starters, but they aren't terrible. Though the mistake was going as high priced as Battle. There are other vets out there would would go for a lot cheaper. Colbert doesn't seem to know how to shop around.
they signed them both before the draft. it was a TOTAL knee jerk reaction to the holmes ordeal. it wouldn't have been a bad move had they not tied their hands with million dollar signing bonuses.

lionslicer
11-05-2010, 04:34 PM
they signed them both before the draft. it was a TOTAL knee jerk reaction to the holmes ordeal. it wouldn't have been a bad move had they not tied their hands with million dollar signing bonuses.

You have Holmes leaving and only 2 recievers, Ward and Wallace. Grisham was a rookie, bound to the practice squad, Logan wasn't much of a reciever and he left, and Galloway was only brought in for an emergency, and he ended up taking El's spot in washington. So Steelers needed 3 recievers. Picked up El and they've been known to pick up recievers from SanFran, and Battle just happened to be free. But I doubt anyone knew Sanders or Brown would be as good as they turned out to be.

Bricks46
11-06-2010, 11:54 AM
Logan is playing great for the Lions. Lions is my favorite team, too.

markymarc
11-07-2010, 02:21 PM
Let me know when Stefan Logan is doing something on the offensive side of the ball. Yes he is a great returner, but that's it IMO. Give me Sanders and Brown over Logan every time. Brown and Sanders can not only play special teams, but the wide receiver position as well.

Plus Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio Brown have youth and a high ceiling on their side. Logan is what he is and that is a returner at best.