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Raw Steel
11-15-2010, 12:18 AM
That's bad enough. They were all from a tight end. Can we try someone else? Lewis? Butler? How can they be worse? This isn't a one game thing with Gay. He can't cover. And LeBeau needs to take some blame here. He is putting him in positions, albeit easy ones, and he is still getting burned. It's probably the biggest problem in the secondary.

Fire Arians
11-15-2010, 12:20 AM
belichick just owns lebeau. period. we can never stop brady and he still insists on using 10 yard cushions against a spread dink and dunk offense. we get beat constently by quick hitters, go figure

TRH
11-15-2010, 12:21 AM
Yea, agreed. I'm getting tired of LeBeau being "untouchable" and exempt from criticism.
Gay needs to go and now. He's just not NFL material.
Cut your losses now.....release him.....and sign someone, anyone, available out there to come in.

lionslicer
11-15-2010, 12:23 AM
Yea, agreed. I'm getting tired of LeBeau being "untouchable" and exempt from criticism.
Gay needs to go and now. He's just not NFL material.
Cut your losses now.....release him.....and sign someone, anyone, available out there to come in.

I said this before, you can't just bring in a random person and expect them to learn a complicated defense, especially when the Steelers use the nickel defense a lot. I'd say just use whoever is already on the team, they'll know the plays. But I'm not even sure how many defensive backs dressed for the game because of how bad the O-line and D-line is beat up and how many players they have to make active for that.

But this might be LeBeau's last year, he's losing his touch, he might retire...

Rotorhead
11-15-2010, 12:31 AM
Aside from the complete lack of effort Gay is the single biggest problem in our def. Was destroyed all last season and has given up 5 TDs in the last 2 games he needs to be replaced period.

lardlad
11-15-2010, 12:32 AM
I said this before, you can't just bring in a random person and expect them to learn a complicated defense, especially when the Steelers use the nickel defense a lot. I'd say just use whoever is already on the team, they'll know the plays. But I'm not even sure how many defensive backs dressed for the game because of how bad the O-line and D-line is beat up and how many players they have to make active for that.

But this might be LeBeau's last year, he's losing his touch, he might retire...

Yeah you hear this over and over again. Ask Timmons, it took him a while to get comfortable.

Gay is really getting picked on, if they had someone better he'd be playing.

madtowndrunkard
11-15-2010, 12:35 AM
Yea, agreed. I'm getting tired of LeBeau being "untouchable" and exempt from criticism.
Gay needs to go and now. He's just not NFL material.
Cut your losses now.....release him.....and sign someone, anyone, available out there to come in.


Well I can agree with Gay. He's our weakness and the Pats exploited it.

But your criticism of Dick Lebeau is a little silly. I think hes' pretty much proven to be one of the best (if not the best) defensive coordinators in the league. yea I'm sure he makes mistakes but he makes less of them then just about any other DC in the league right now.

Fact of the matter is, if our offense took advantage of the mistakes the Pats made in the 2nd quarter and then maybe showed up for the 3rd quarter it might have been a different outcome. There are 3 aspects of the game.....The defense has carried this team.....at some point you have to ask your offense to help out. The ST's unit has been great minus Reed.

figg
11-15-2010, 12:37 AM
We better draft a CB that can actually cover someone! The Steelers are too hung up on cb's being able to tackle. You can teach that. You cant teach speed.

Hayeksheroes
11-15-2010, 12:38 AM
If you are going to give up 33 points, you might as well blitz all out. Brady can't play under pressure. That's the secret. He won't go deep. There is no deep threat. You are only going to lose out to dink and dunk.

At half time, where was the adjustments? None. Put in Sylvester. Put in someone who can put pressure on Brady. Letting Brady have all day in the pocket, only lets Brady pick you apart. That is exactly what you let happen. I hope you were holding something back for the playoffs.

TRH
11-15-2010, 12:42 AM
I agree.
Its not just the time Brady had back there (leBeau can't control the Pats OL), but its the DB play.
There was NO adjustments made for Brady's surgical-like 7, 8 yard passes. Kept doing it over and over. And LeBeau kept playing everybody 15 yards back.
Its quite mind-boggling actually.

SteelCurtain
11-15-2010, 12:45 AM
Lebdau never adjusts at halftime. That is why we consistently shut out most teams in the first half, then the other team adjusts at halftime, and then we get torched in the second half. It has happened time and time again. He is not a good game plan adjuster in the game or at the half.

StainlessStill
11-15-2010, 12:46 AM
I honestly don't know what LeBeau's game plan even was? We literally tapped out from the start of the game, and we didn't even come CLOSE to getting to Tom Brady. One of the most "feared" and sack heavy defensive's couldn't even sniff a hint of Tom Brady's vagina so that was very hard and very frustrating to watch to its MAX.

In fact, the Patriots looked like the Steelers D. Having a pitiful 13 sack performance ALL SEASON, they get 5 tonight! 5! Unreal.

This was a total ASS WHOOPIN from start to finish, top to bottom. We were banged up so incredibly hard with injuries to the o-line that we should of just went out with 9 guys on offense since our left tackle and right guard just looked at the Heinz Field lights all day. DUrrRr Durr Durr!

Bad.

TRH
11-15-2010, 12:47 AM
but for some reason...LeBeau's untouchable. Dare criticize him and you yourself will get torched by all the fanboys.

pitt0wns
11-15-2010, 12:55 AM
Dick Lebeau needs to go. His schemes and game planning sucks these days. I don't care if we can stop every team on the ground. It doesn't matter not many backs run for over 100+ yards anyways these days. Our Pass D sucks and has sucked for awhile.

William Gay couldn't cover a senior citizen. Beat how many times by a tight end? lmao

I see why McFadden was let go by the Cards. He gets beat left and right.

Did yall see that random Polamalu blitz at the end of the game? Where was that when we couldn't get no pressure throughout the game?

I think this whole coaching staff needs to be thrown in the trash. Tomlin is still basically working off of Cowhers team and its starting to crumble.

SteelKnight
11-15-2010, 12:59 AM
belichick just owns lebeau. period. we can never stop brady and he still insists on using 10 yard cushions against a spread dink and dunk offense. we get beat constently by quick hitters, go figure

+1 This exactly

StainlessStill
11-15-2010, 01:00 AM
William Gay couldn't cover a senior citizen. Beat how many times by a tight end?

Uh, yeah. That's what you call a MIS-MATCH. William Gay isn't that great to begin with, but that was obviously the matchup N.E wanted. Gay was the weak link ( has been for years) and it's hard to matchup a corner on a tight end that out weights you by 200 pounds and has a major height advantage. Credit N.E for executing the matchup! Also, is Bryant McFadden's head still stuck in Arizona? It's time to go after corners soon!

madtowndrunkard
11-15-2010, 01:00 AM
At some point you have to give some credit to Brady. Some of those throws he made tonight were ridiculous. I don't like to say that because I can't stand the guy but jesus he was throwing balls that no defender could touch. Plus he did it quickly and calmly. He knows his offense. He can see the whole field. He never panics. He's the opposite of Ben. I'm not saying Ben is a horrible QB....but his skill set is totally different then Brady.

Once Brady picked us apart and we couldn't do anything about it...the mental mistakes started happening on defense. We could have blitzed him on every play and Brady would have just dumped it off to his TE's or RB's all night and killed us that way. (oh wait...he did) That's why we didn't blitz like mad. And when we did Harrison and Woodley were not able to get any pressure.

The pats had a great game plan...we didn't. The Pats QB played a spectacular game....ours didn't. Game over.

Fire Arians
11-15-2010, 01:08 AM
At some point you have to give some credit to Brady. Some of those throws he made tonight were ridiculous. I don't like to say that because I can't stand the guy but jesus he was throwing balls that no defender could touch. Plus he did it quickly and calmly. He knows his offense. He can see the whole field. He never panics. He's the opposite of Ben. I'm not saying Ben is a horrible QB....but his skill set is totally different then Brady.

Once Brady picked us apart and we couldn't do anything about it...the mental mistakes started happening on defense. We could have blitzed him on every play and Brady would have just dumped it off to his TE's or RB's all night and killed us that way. (oh wait...he did) That's why we didn't blitz like mad. And when we did Harrison and Woodley were not able to get any pressure.

The pats had a great game plan...we didn't. The Pats QB played a spectacular game....ours didn't. Game over.

we just don't have the personnel to beat the pats. i don't know if the blitz is effective against a qb who always gets rid of it so quickly. defenses like the jets that are deep in the secondary and bring in extra fast DB's give him the most problems.

pitt0wns
11-15-2010, 01:10 AM
Uh, yeah. That's what you call a MIS-MATCH. William Gay isn't that great to begin with, but that was obviously the matchup N.E wanted. Gay was the weak link ( has been for years) and it's hard to matchup a corner on a tight end that out weights you by 200 pounds and has a major height advantage. Credit N.E for executing the matchup! Also, is Bryant McFadden's head still stuck in Arizona? It's time to go after corners soon!

He couldn't run with their TE!!!

lionslicer
11-15-2010, 01:12 AM
Uh, yeah. That's what you call a MIS-MATCH. William Gay isn't that great to begin with, but that was obviously the matchup N.E wanted. Gay was the weak link ( has been for years) and it's hard to matchup a corner on a tight end that out weights you by 200 pounds and has a major height advantage. Credit N.E for executing the matchup! Also, is Bryant McFadden's head still stuck in Arizona? It's time to go after corners soon!

The thing with corners is that there are as many corner busts out of the draft as there are quarterbacks and running backs. Its really hard to find a Revis type player and them to be good in the NFL. Steelers need to get some draft picks this year. Patriots stock up on draft picks every year and it pays off, Steelers need to start doing this.

pitt0wns
11-15-2010, 01:13 AM
Our secondary has been a problem for a long time now. 6-8 years maybe? Brady kills our zone coverages especially since we cannot get any pressure.

I think the coaching staff is 90% to blame at the end of it. Arians is garbage and Tomlin is losing my respect quickly. He sat on the sidelines the whole game like whatever.

Our D is getting old same with the schemes.

lionslicer
11-15-2010, 01:14 AM
He couldn't run with their TE!!!

He could if he was in position, he was out of position more than anything... He looked like he didn't know the plays or what was going on around him. Like the one touchdown Troy went up in the box and for some reason he still through Troy was behind him to protect against the deep ball.

pitt0wns
11-15-2010, 01:18 AM
He could if he was in position, he was out of position more than anything... He looked like he didn't know the plays or what was going on around him. Like the one touchdown Troy went up in the box and for some reason he still through Troy was behind him to protect against the deep ball.

He looks like another Tyrone Carter

madtowndrunkard
11-15-2010, 01:23 AM
He couldn't run with their TE!!!


He has the speed to run with their TE. The issue was actually technique. He was caught flat footed and physically undersized to cover any of their TE's. I dont care how fast you are....imagine giving a 5-10 yard head start to a TE.....then taking off after he passes by you. It would take 30 yards before you catch up. Gay's technique was terrible and he looked confused / hesitant.

The pats saw a mismatch....and exploited it. Arians sees a mismatch and thinks " we can't do that....they'll be expecting it!" Reminds me of the game vs the Chiefs last season. The Chiefs were horrible and could not stop the run against anyone....so what did Arians do? Ben threw 42 passes and we lost.

Steeldude
11-15-2010, 02:15 AM
i would get rid of mcfadden before gay.

DanRooney
11-15-2010, 03:37 AM
Yeah you hear this over and over again. Ask Timmons, it took him a while to get comfortable.

Gay is really getting picked on, if they had someone better he'd be playing.


That's a crock of BS.

Antonio Brown is better than Randle "terrified of the endzone" El and Arnaz Battle. Where's he at? Rotting on the bench.

SH-Rock
11-15-2010, 07:04 AM
You guys are forgetting that the first TD let by Gay was not his fault, excellent coverage Brady just hit it right in the moving car's window. But I really think the biggest problem was Mike Tomlin. Come on Mike get your team fired up. No matter how bad the team plays, no matter how bad the team is coached it all comes down on you. Ask Wade Phillips.

NYC_Steeler
11-15-2010, 07:11 AM
William Gay SUCKS, period. His bad play has been a recurring theme this year: If I can see that he's terrible, why can't the coaches? Are these guys brain dead? I just don't understand why the Steelers can't seem to improve their secondary - every year it's the same damn problem and it doesn't get addressed.

Curtain_of_Steel
11-15-2010, 08:58 AM
Well this guy sucked it up last year and couldn't cover a dead person. Every TD from the the 265 pound TE you seen Gay chasing him. So now this little guy cant run down a TE?

Should've been cut last year, and should be cut now.

Our entire secondary needs to wake up, Brady as well as most other teams this year picked us a part.
1 qb pressure from Troy, he has been invisble the last 4 games.

tmacsteelerfan
11-15-2010, 10:17 AM
I am dumbfounded at how he straight up was out ran in two of those touchdowns by their tight end. I thought he was playing a pretty good role position this season in our defense, but now he's back to getting burnt any time they throw his way.

TRH
11-15-2010, 10:19 AM
i don't know what its going to take.....

Unfortunately, my best guess says we're stuck with him for the rest of the year and we hope that he's released in the off-season

Third Rail
11-15-2010, 10:20 AM
Worst corner in the league.

Rotorhead
11-15-2010, 10:29 AM
You are correct that first TD was a great pass by buttchin, however the other 2 fall on his shoulders completely for blowing the coverage.

Third Rail
11-15-2010, 10:36 AM
I saw we switch to what Myron Cope called an 11-0-0 defense. Just have all of the D-backs and linemen rush the QB. Sure, he'll still torch us when he connects to a receiver, but maybe we'll occasionally get some sacks too.

Steelerindc
11-15-2010, 10:39 AM
Awful....just awful nuff said.

TRH
11-15-2010, 10:51 AM
[QUOTE=madtowndrunkard;866577]Well I can agree with Gay. He's our weakness and the Pats exploited it.

But your criticism of Dick Lebeau is a little silly. I think hes' pretty much proven to be one of the best (if not the best) defensive coordinators in the league. yea I'm sure he makes mistakes but he makes less of them then just about any other DC in the league right now.



No, not really. What i said was "he seems exempt from criticism". The game plan last night was pathetic and we are getting exposed to the rest of league as "all you have to do is pass, pass, pass" and he's making no adjustments out there. I'm not laying it all on him, but some share of the blame has to go to him too.
The puzzling use of Troy now, no answer for short passes, etc. And where did our crazy different looks go that used to give offenses fits?

tony hipchest
11-15-2010, 11:10 AM
the gameplan last night was typical fire zone blitz. it does have some weaknesses (TE in the middle) but has been one of the best defensive schemes in the past 20 years.

live by the sword/die by the sword. last night the bear got the steelers.

theplatypus
11-15-2010, 11:11 AM
[QUOTE=madtowndrunkard;866577]Well I can agree with Gay. He's our weakness and the Pats exploited it.

But your criticism of Dick Lebeau is a little silly. I think hes' pretty much proven to be one of the best (if not the best) defensive coordinators in the league. yea I'm sure he makes mistakes but he makes less of them then just about any other DC in the league right now.



No, not really. What i said was "he seems exempt from criticism". The game plan last night was pathetic and we are getting exposed to the rest of league as "all you have to do is pass, pass, pass" and he's making no adjustments out there. I'm not laying it all on him, but some share of the blame has to go to him too.
The puzzling use of Troy now, no answer for short passes, etc. And where did our crazy different looks go that used to give offenses fits?

It doesn't matter what your game plan is if the players don't execute. The first td was a great pass by Brady, not much we can do in that situation. The 2nd two were Gay biting on the fake. Once he did that there was no recovering and an easy td.

ricardisimo
11-15-2010, 12:16 PM
Gay had a horrific night, but Troy looked old and tired, and Clark was invisible. No one seems to notice the bajillions of yards (and several TDs) that B-Mac has been giving up. The long and the short of it is that we have one corner (Ike) our Pro Bowl safeties are oddly out of it lately, and our other corners are questionable at best.

Once Timmons went out, this game was over. Not a good sign.

StainlessStill
11-15-2010, 12:17 PM
Anybody miss Deshea Townsend in those situations?

I DID!!!!

BKAnthem
11-15-2010, 02:51 PM
Anybody miss Deshea Townsend in those situations?

I DID!!!!

Keenan Lewis and Joe Burnett still can't beat him out and he's not even here anymore..

surcalifero
11-15-2010, 05:21 PM
What kind of defense was the Steelers defense playing last night? It seem to me like the formation was different. Gay was playing in the middle of the field along with Polamalu. Wasn't Clark suppose to be playing along next to Troy and covering the Patriot's tight end. William Gay was suppose to be playing along the sidelines.

stiller39
11-15-2010, 06:15 PM
Seems to me if you have a corner who is getting picked on and scorched as Gay is then you provide some help in the name of Polamalu or Clark who have not done much the past 2 games.

BigRick
11-15-2010, 06:52 PM
Well I can agree with Gay. He's our weakness and the Pats exploited it.

But your criticism of Dick Lebeau is a little silly. I think hes' pretty much proven to be one of the best (if not the best) defensive coordinators in the league. yea I'm sure he makes mistakes but he makes less of them then just about any other DC in the league right now.

Fact of the matter is, if our offense took advantage of the mistakes the Pats made in the 2nd quarter and then maybe showed up for the 3rd quarter it might have been a different outcome. There are 3 aspects of the game.....The defense has carried this team.....at some point you have to ask your offense to help out. The ST's unit has been great minus Reed.

i have to agree with you. Gay is weak and needs to be replaced. also the offense needs to show up for all 4 quarters. Maybe someone in the front office will agree and start loking for CB to draft in April. :mad:

steelerfan5
11-15-2010, 08:53 PM
Gay is awful. Personally, I'm not all that impressed with Ike either. Our corners are the weakest link of our D, and the D is only as good as their weakest link.

ricardisimo
11-15-2010, 09:50 PM
Gay is awful. Personally, I'm not all that impressed with Ike either. Our corners are the weakest link of our D, and the D is only as good as their weakest link.
Yes and no. You can cover up deficiencies in the backfield if, for example, you are blitzing aggressively to pressure the QB, or alternately dropping a LB into coverage. We don't seem to be doing much of either lately, which raises the question: what are we doing?

If you're going to give up yards anyway, blitz the **** out of them. Make them pay.