PDA

View Full Version : Things we need to face


thumper
11-15-2010, 04:06 PM
Some of these points are in various threads, but not collectively.

It's time we face certain truths.

1.) The Steelers were overrated, period. They had an impressive
first 4 games without Ben and everyone assumed we'd only be
getting that much _better_ with Ben back. It didn't happen. Not
in reality. For whatever reason, this team has steadily got _less_
impressive each week Ben's been back. Injuries are part of it,
but not the whole picture. Individuals, such as Troy, look .....how
do I put it? Lackadaisical? Mistake-prone? We all feared the OL
was inferior, then we thought, "They don't look that bad" as the
season began, and now they look like slow rubbish.

2.) We can now officially end the "I would take Ben over any QB
out there" nonsense. I was among those who used to make that
claim, saying with our weak OL, no one was better for the Steelers
than Ben. Wrong. If you switched QBs on last night's team, Brady
would win with Pgh's roster vs. the Pats and Ben. Period. I am beyond
sick of seeing Ben dance around almost every single play. It's a nice
option to have when you need it, but tell me a QB isn't better when he
can go through 4 progressive reads and find the open man without
the need to dance around and perform miracles just to have a chance.
Ben is a winner, over all, obviously. But his antics are now old. For
whatever reason, he feels the need to dance in the pocket every play
instead of just quickly finding an open man and getting the ball there
in a timely fashion. Something tells me Brady would not need to dance
as much if he was QB of Pgh. He would find the open man and get
him the ball with accuracy.

3.) Our D is overrated. As teams learn to just throw short passes all day
you will see our D look like they did last night. Can't run on us? Fine.
Just dice us up with short passes. They had zero answers. Don't see
why they will in the future either.

4.) I guess we still need Hines. Without him in the game, our receivers
looked like pure dog shit.

5.) Unless we get some bodies back quick, fortune is just not on our side
this season, and you don't win any hardware unless you have some good
luck on your side.

6.) Reed is toast. Missing a chip shot? Do you realize if he made his
FGs we'd actually been in the game with a chance to win down the
stretch? We can't afford a crap kicker. No way.

7.) Brady and Belichick are serious dudes about winning football game.
Have you ever seen our guys show the passion that Brady displayed
on the sidelines? Dude has mad fuel to win. Ben? He was just chillin'
out - everything was cool.

mikegrimey
11-15-2010, 04:09 PM
I think there is a bit of truth in all of your points but I objection to the final one where you try to criticize Ben for not being as animated as Brady on the sidelines. Trying to speculate that Ben was aloof or unconcerned or not passionate about the game simply because he wasn't animated and yelling is a mistake. Nobody can tell you what the man was thinking or trying to do. There is more than one way to lead the troops, not everyone is full of piss and eccentricity.

ZoneBlitzer
11-15-2010, 04:14 PM
I agree with everything you said. I remember when the season started. Back then, the team was fired up and Tomlin was fired up. I was stunned to see such an emotional Tomlin early on.

Last night I saw a defeated man. I saw a coach who looked lost, and an emotionless team that laid down and conceded defeat from the get-go.

fat4jc
11-15-2010, 04:20 PM
http://www.allaboutbipolar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/sky-is-falling.jpg

DoctorCAD
11-15-2010, 04:23 PM
2. Brady would have been DEAD behind our line. He would NOT have been able to throw like he did, hell, he only got hit once all night. No fear about your OL getting you hurt = a confident QB.

We saw the opposite on our side last night, Ben fearing for his life every play until Bellycheat called off the 5 and 6 and 7 man rush. Then Ben was as good as Brady.

Not blaming the OL for everything, but they are hurt and it showed.

finesward
11-15-2010, 04:26 PM
Brady wouldn't fare well with the constant man coming free that happens almost every play against our oline. You put ben behind the pat's oline last night he wouldnt have to dance as much. Pure speculation, but brady was rarely harrassed, and ben had a guy coming off a stunt pretty much every down. The dancing I think was a result of his internal clock being set at 2 secs, not trusting your blind side can do that.

The pass rush has disappeared for whatever reason, and our corners can't cover. the new scheme that has troy playing conservatively and letting timmons roam free does not fare well for troy p. he looks uncomfortable back there. indecisive and lost at times. The loss of kiesel and smith are underrated, as there has been ZERO push from our dline since their absence. ziggy and eason are routinely getting blown up and there is not gaps for the lb's to shoot. teams have found a way to neutralize our pass rush at the point of attack.

was it just me or did anyone else scream repeatedly "take off the f'n hat you redneck!!" everytime they showed ben's picture. for christs sake looked like he just got done huntin' Hunters everywhere should be embarrassed

TRH
11-15-2010, 04:26 PM
I agree with almost everything you've said.

The one point i disagree on is that if Brady had to play behind our atrocious, pee wee league OL, he would have actually done WORSE than Ben.
Brady can't handle pressure at all. Anytime a team puts serious pressure on him and gets in his face, he totally sucks (see some Raven's games and the Super Bowl with the Giants for reference...). I'm not understanding why we didn't put the all-out blitz on him all night long.
Also, don't blame Ben for the NO-passion, no fury and fire on the sidelines. That's on Tomlin. He should have showed a fire instead of standing there looking like a dead body standing up.
The rest of the leaders....Farrior, Foote, Polamalu, Heath, etc all looked like human wax figures on the sidelines. Zero emotion.

eafratitpm3
11-15-2010, 04:33 PM
Somebody on this team needs to show emotion. As a long time Steeler fan I was even getting fired up when I saw Brady on the sidelines. Until this team shows that kind of Emotion they will be mediocre at best. They think because they are the Pittsburgh Steelers teams will fear them, sorry to say but that motivates other teams. This team needs to get that blue collar atitude back that it was founded on and go out and get pissed and beat someone down. To let anyone come into your house and embarrass you like the Patriots did is inexcusable.

plenewken
11-15-2010, 04:36 PM
I think there is a bit of truth in all of your points but I objection to the final one where you try to criticize Ben for not being as animated as Brady on the sidelines. Trying to speculate that Ben was aloof or unconcerned or not passionate about the game simply because he wasn't animated and yelling is a mistake. Nobody can tell you what the man was thinking or trying to do. There is more than one way to lead the troops, not everyone is full of piss and eccentricity.

Honestly I could give 2 sh*ts what Ben was thinking deep inside or what he was trying to do. Bottom line is he didn't do sh*t when it counted and never showed or communicated any motivation to his offense. Brady did and that's the big difference.
I'll take his attitude and his numbers any day over Ben's.

Lord of Lombardi
11-15-2010, 04:45 PM
Well stated Thumper. This was a complete "team" loss. I blame the players because after all, they have to perform, they have to explain to the coaches exactly what they see and make suggestions that will help gain momentum. I blame the coaching staff because it is their responsibility to make adjustments and put the players in the best position. Did anyone pull the receivers aside and explain not to overlook the blitzes and break off routes when necessary? Did our coaches realize that Ben was being blitzed all night and begin putting in shorter routes / slants? Did Lebeau realize that his cover DB's were nothing of the sort and during the 4th qtr after not stopping NE all night, throw caution to the wind and start blitzing Brady. If anything we hit him hard enough so next week he feels Pittsburgh. We did none of this so we are right where we belong. 6-3 and in 2nd place.

2 things happen from here. We replay 2009 and end up missing the playoffs or we go 1 and done. Or we learn from this and Tomlin truly has 2 coordinators that learned from this mistake and we end up going 12-4.

It wasn't the Offense or the Defense. It was the Team who lost this one. Even sir Jeff Shank a lot

thumper
11-15-2010, 06:03 PM
Oh, and I have to add in the horrid play calling. Come on. It's so bad. So many totally wasted calls. Belichick kicks our ass so bad when it comes to strategy and Brady kills us with execution. It really feels like Arians is clueless when it comes to play calling. I know it's easy to blame the play caller when things don't go well, but in this case, it's totally valid to blame that hot mess. You can almost sense it in Ben's body language that he is not agreeable to the plays being called. It's like he knows they are wasted plays and he is going to end up in 3rd and long all night. Sucks.

mikegrimey
11-15-2010, 06:03 PM
Honestly I could give 2 sh*ts what Ben was thinking deep inside or what he was trying to do. Bottom line is he didn't do sh*t when it counted and never showed or communicated any motivation to his offense. Brady did and that's the big difference.
I'll take his attitude and his numbers any day over Ben's.

You don't know that for sure, you're just guessing. There are multiple ways to communicate with your players. Eli Manning is another QB who is frequently reviled for his calm demeanor but most people just ignorantly assume that if you're not yelling you're not communicating.

I never contested that Brady didn't play a far better game than Ben, but I don't think his emotional behavior was the reason behind it. Brady was smarter, got rid of the ball quickly, and faced very little pressure all night. Ben faced a lot of pressure, held onto the ball for too long, and started out horrendous (7/20 in the first half I think).

My point was you can't criticize Ben for being placid when you don't know if he was placid or uninspired.

kwpit79
11-15-2010, 06:24 PM
To those who always complain about Ben holding the ball too long, do you ever watch the replays after he either takes a sack or starts running around? Every time they show a replay I see NO ONE open; not a soul. And not only that, but they're not even looking back for the ball when Ben gets blitzed.

I blame it on playcalling for the most part. When the opposing team blitzes 6-7 guys consistently you need to have guys running shorter routes and looking for the ball. We need outlet receivers on more passing plays. It just seems that most of our routes aren't meant to break off until +15 yards.

chacha
11-15-2010, 06:38 PM
Brady woulda been toast if he has our O Line. We have some good players hurt, and the Pats usually do beat us, so big deal get over it. If we still suck next game well then it might be time to really worry since this could be the start of the downward spiral like last year, but lets be optimistic. We still got a winning record.

PS I would still take Ben over any other QB :sun:

Rick5895
11-15-2010, 06:55 PM
The team as a whole has not been prepared to play the last three games, I think with Ben coming back the team has taken for granted how good they are supposed to be. Our O Line is average at best, but i wonder if we had three step drops and ball out on timing routes would we be saying the same things. That falls on Arians. Speaking of which what the hell is with Moore getting entire series and Mendy on the bench?
Sanders will be good, Wallace is going to be great, but losing Hines last night really hurt, and you could almost see the "air" come out of the team when he was hurt.
Defensively, I must say that was the worst i have seen in years. Troy is trying to do TOO MUCH and as a result is making too many mistakes. William Gay is absolutely awful, Lewis has to be an upgrade or he shouldn't be on the team.
ABSOLUTELY NO ONE HAS MENTIONED THIS BUT WE REALLY MISS AARON SMITH!!!!!!!!!!! Hood is just not stepping up and with Keisel out too, we are in trouble. IMO that is why Woodley is struggling.

Hopefully this embarrasment will WAKE THEM THE F*** UP! and we get our swagger back. We have the perfect game for that on Sunday vs Raiders,!!!

thumper
11-15-2010, 06:57 PM
You don't know that for sure, you're just guessing. There are multiple ways to communicate with your players. Eli Manning is another QB who is frequently reviled for his calm demeanor but most people just ignorantly assume that if you're not yelling you're not communicating.

I never contested that Brady didn't play a far better game than Ben, but I don't think his emotional behavior was the reason behind it. Brady was smarter, got rid of the ball quickly, and faced very little pressure all night. Ben faced a lot of pressure, held onto the ball for too long, and started out horrendous (7/20 in the first half I think).

My point was you can't criticize Ben for being placid when you don't know if he was placid or uninspired.

I can't make judgments on Ben's demeanor, when it comes to his facial expressions, etc. but body language is a real, telling sign. What I do like about Brady is that he doesn't wait until the game becomes a problem. Did you see him getting fired up because they had to punt the ball? He was saying, "We can't play that way and beat these guys." He got all their attention to not get complacent, _before_ it could become a problem.

Bottom line: Ben was part of the problem. The fact that this team has grown uninspired as of late, since his return, is a real concern. I believe this team needs a dip and be counted out before they get in gear for a run. For that reason, this is not the end of the world, or their season, to me. The last two Super Bowl years had dips in both seasons. Let's just hope we don't have a 5-game dip like last year.

steelerdave1969
11-15-2010, 07:04 PM
I know that Tom Brady is a Great QB and I have never said any different, the man makes plays. And the Steelers Never Touched Him Last Night that I Saw. Honestly . . I went to bed after the 3rd quarter was over, cuz I knew the game was over. Ben needs to make some 3 step drops and make some Decisions and Make Some Throws on Timing . . He has Never been real good at that. . . Brady and Manning are Way Above Ben for that fact. This offensive line is So Banged Up . . Thats what He Must Do . . or we are Going No Where but on Another 5 Game Losing Streak Just Like Last Season.

steelerdave1969
11-15-2010, 07:08 PM
Brady woulda been toast if he has our O Line. We have some good players hurt, and the Pats usually do beat us, so big deal get over it. If we still suck next game well then it might be time to really worry since this could be the start of the downward spiral like last year, but lets be optimistic. We still got a winning record.

PS I would still take Ben over any other QB :sun:

Dude that P.S. is a Joke . . . Brady is by far the Smarter QB . . He knows when he needs to get that Ball Out Quickly and he Isnt going to take the chances of running around like crazy. Ben just needs to drop back 3 steps and lette're fly. . . . this offensive line is Injured more than I can ever remember a Steelers line being.

skinart82
11-15-2010, 07:08 PM
And when Ben wins a big game and The D looks good everyone will jump back on!

chacha
11-15-2010, 08:12 PM
Dude that P.S. is a Joke . . . Brady is by far the Smarter QB . . He knows when he needs to get that Ball Out Quickly and he Isnt going to take the chances of running around like crazy. Ben just needs to drop back 3 steps and lette're fly. . . . this offensive line is Injured more than I can ever remember a Steelers line being.

sorry little steelerdude who likes to write small, that ps is not a joke, it's my opinion, I'd take Ben over your sweetie Brady anyday

chacha
11-15-2010, 08:13 PM
And when Ben wins a big game and The D looks good everyone will jump back on!

yup, like usual

SteelKnight
11-15-2010, 08:26 PM
thumper

Overall a good post and fun to read but I disagree with a few things:
1. The part about the O-line. I really think Ben is the problem now...not the line. He is holding the ball for a ridiculous amount of time. I'm pleased with the line and I even thought the L side did OK. Everyone has bad games and Essex had a little trouble but overall, Ben had enough time. I really think all sacks (except the one Mendenhall missed a block on) were over 5 seconds.

6. Bottom line is Reed slipped. It happens. I'd rather have him slip than have it go off his leg the wrong way.

7. The passion part. I disagree with. People demonstrate their passion in different ways. I don't need Ben to act childish like Brady was acting.

Steeler4life1972
11-15-2010, 08:33 PM
To those who always complain about Ben holding the ball too long, do you ever watch the replays after he either takes a sack or starts running around? Every time they show a replay I see NO ONE open; not a soul. And not only that, but they're not even looking back for the ball when Ben gets blitzed.

I blame it on playcalling for the most part. When the opposing team blitzes 6-7 guys consistently you need to have guys running shorter routes and looking for the ball. We need outlet receivers on more passing plays. It just seems that most of our routes aren't meant to break off until +15 yards.

I agree totally!!! We need more guys in the flat and it seems we rarely have anybody as a checkdown. Way too many long routes!!! Look at Brady how he dinked and dunked down the field....same thing we need to do!!!

Steelers17
11-15-2010, 08:42 PM
At least we need not worry about our QB having an obvious, progressively developing accuracy issue! Even if this ridiculous thought contained a scintilla of truth, Arians would simply adjust his medication levels at the half.

pitt0wns
11-15-2010, 08:44 PM
Yall give way too much credit to Brady. If he was behinds PIT's O line it would've been a bad day for him. They had a gameplan PIT did not. After 1/2 time we were still in it. Our D just plain sucks against the PASS and has for the past decade. Dick Lebeau is over-rated! Our D looked confused all game players out of position etc. They looked like a bunch of clowns. Saints tore up our D as well. If Palmer was like he was years back we would've got murdered by Cincy.

Ben is a great QB but he can only do so much when he is under pressure all day.

You'll rarely win a football game giving up 39 pts.

Bottom line this coaching staff is garbage and I've been claiming this since day one. This coaching staff is riding off of Cowher's legacy and its starting to crumble.

Cowher and his staff were great but he never had a decent QB. If he did they would've won 3-4 bowls.

MillerMania83
11-15-2010, 08:45 PM
To those who always complain about Ben holding the ball too long, do you ever watch the replays after he either takes a sack or starts running around? Every time they show a replay I see NO ONE open; not a soul. And not only that, but they're not even looking back for the ball when Ben gets blitzed.

I blame it on playcalling for the most part. When the opposing team blitzes 6-7 guys consistently you need to have guys running shorter routes and looking for the ball. We need outlet receivers on more passing plays. It just seems that most of our routes aren't meant to break off until +15 yards.

TRUER words have NOT been spoken in this thread, BOTTOM LINE.

Also, I disagree with the Brady behind our O line comment....Are you SERIOUS, Brady would get KILLED if he had to play behind our O line....3 step drops or not, he's not mobile at all, and when ya have guys running free at ya all night long, well, lets just say Brady would probably be playing braces on all over his body by now, not just his left knee.

pitt0wns
11-15-2010, 08:50 PM
TRUER words have NOT been spoken in this thread, BOTTOM LINE.

Also, I disagree with the Brady behind our O line comment....Are you SERIOUS, Brady would get KILLED if he had to play behind our O line....3 step drops or not, he's not mobile at all, and when ya have guys running free at ya all night long, well, lets just say Brady would probably be playing braces on all over his body by now, not just his left knee.

Are you refering to my O line post? Brady would get murdered behind our o-line.

That is also true all our receivers are never open on a 3 step drop. Why? I would blame Arians for his play design.

steelerfan5
11-15-2010, 08:50 PM
I think the Steelers generally do best when their backs are against the wall and they have the role of the underdog. They too easily fall into their own hype and become complacent. We looked lifeless last night, and what's worse is that Tomlin didn't even try to fire up the troops. It's as though, once Ben returned, they stopped trying. They have been getting consistently worse over the last few weeks, so its no wonder they finally imploded. What will be interesting is to see how they respond this week to the Raiders.

Injuries are a factor, but I remember in the past how well the Steelers did at replacing starters with very capable backups. What happened to those days?

Steeler4life1972
11-15-2010, 09:03 PM
Are you refering to my O line post? Brady would get murdered behind our o-line.

That is also true all our receivers are never open on a 3 step drop. Why? I would blame Arians for his play design.

Arians has benefited from a good defense over the years and a high takeaway and scoring defense at that. This factor has been completely overshadowed until now to how bad he is. Hey BA...quit trying to go for the deep ball everytime and shorten the receivers up in short routes and then the long ball will work more effectively!! Its obvious to me...let Ben develop his timing on the short routes!

MillerMania83
11-15-2010, 09:14 PM
Arians has benefited from a good defense over the years and a high takeaway and scoring defense at that. This factor has been completely overshadowed until now to how bad he is. Hey BA...quit trying to go for the deep ball everytime and shorten the receivers up in short routes and then the long ball will work more effectively!! Its obvious to me...let Ben develop his timing on the short routes!

I AGREE, get Ben in a rythem in these games....BETTER PLAY CALLING/DESIGNING....The O line is bad, get him in some quick 2-3 step drops, and let him hit some WR's/TE's for some quick strikes right out the gate and let #7 get some mo jo going....And NO not the famous "bubble screen" to the wideout for a 1 yrd gain that doesn't seem to work at all anymore....Some legit quick passes across the middle....Heath COULD BE a MONSTER TE in this league if he didn't have to stay in and help save Ben's life back there most of the time.

Time for the coaches, get this, TO ACTUALLY START COACHING and putting the players in a better position to be successful, JMO.

Steeler4life1972
11-15-2010, 09:27 PM
I AGREE, get Ben in a rythem in these games....BETTER PLAY CALLING/DESIGNING....The O line is bad, get him in some quick 2-3 step drops, and let him hit some WR's/TE's for some quick strikes right out the gate and let #7 get some mo jo going....And NO not the famous "bubble screen" to the wideout for a 1 yrd gain that doesn't seem to work at all anymore....Some legit quick passes across the middle....Heath COULD BE a MONSTER TE in this league if he didn't have to stay in and help save Ben's life back there most of the time.

Time for the coaches, get this, TO ACTUALLY START COACHING and putting the players in a better position to be successful, JMO.

Im totally with you on this!!!

MillerMania83
11-15-2010, 09:29 PM
Im totally with you on this!!!

THANK YOU, lol....Now if only the coaches were, lol.

VegasStlrFan
11-15-2010, 09:33 PM
Brady would do just fine behind our line, he gets rid of the ball quick and on target. Ben does not, and that's why they put 8 in the box and blitz without fear. Nobody worries about ben as a pocket passer Think about the best offensive pass plays you have seen, they almost all involve ben holding on to the ball to long and then going schoolyard (which he does quite well).

As far as Brady chewing ass on the sidelines, that's shows quality leadership to me. That o line was ready to follow him through the gates of he'll after he got done with them.

toughsticks87
11-15-2010, 09:41 PM
Maybe they needed such an awful loss to realize they aren't coasting into the playoffs. Who knows, this could be the best thing that's happened to the team this year.

Steeler4life1972
11-15-2010, 09:46 PM
Maybe they needed such an awful loss to realize they aren't coasting into the playoffs. Who knows, this could be the best thing that's happened to the team this year.

AMEN brother but they should have realized this a couple of weeks back to be honest!

VegasStlrFan
11-15-2010, 09:49 PM
Maybe they needed such an awful loss to realize they aren't coasting into the playoffs. Who knows, this could be the best thing that's happened to the team this year.

Yep, they look like they have lost a bit of their edge. They are unbeatable when they play with a chip on their shoulder. Hope this gets it rolling again.

Steeler4life1972
11-15-2010, 10:00 PM
Im gonna tell what is very interesting about this loss...think back 2 years ago when we won the superbowl. Remember when titans beat us pretty bad and we basically played as bad as last night...just a thought here and I think somebody mentioned earlier....are we purposely playing soft to not show a playoff team anything knowing we could very be playing them in the playoffs...I do believe this happens in the NFL. Remember the titans got a 2nd seed and folded after one game and we ended up winning it all. Maybe we gave them a false sense of a blueprint...just an interesting take on this...but its possible. I told my buddies back then we threw that game and would when the SB and was right.

thumper
11-15-2010, 10:38 PM
Brady would do just fine behind our line, he gets rid of the ball quick and on target. Ben does not, and that's why they put 8 in the box and blitz without fear. Nobody worries about ben as a pocket passer Think about the best offensive pass plays you have seen, they almost all involve ben holding on to the ball to long and then going schoolyard (which he does quite well).

As far as Brady chewing ass on the sidelines, that's shows quality leadership to me. That o line was ready to follow him through the gates of he'll after he got done with them.

:thumbsup:

Steelers17
11-15-2010, 10:42 PM
Maybe they needed such an awful loss to realize they aren't coasting into the playoffs. Who knows, this could be the best thing that's happened to the team this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwq7BYOnDrM
:tt03:

fer522
11-15-2010, 11:11 PM
the whole team sucked
hell even the waterboy dropped the water cooler
get over it its done
now lets beat the crap out of the raiders :tt03:

thumper
11-16-2010, 01:18 PM
the whole team sucked
hell even the waterboy dropped the water cooler
get over it its done
now lets beat the crap out of the raiders :tt03:

Raiders ain't no joke. Pgh better get its head out of its ass, or
they lose this one too.

pete74
11-16-2010, 01:34 PM
Come on guys, we played bad but it's one game. We definatly don't have a perfect team(nor does anyone) but we also played without both our starting tackels and ends.

As for the Ben talk, if he throws for 350 yards and 5td's next week and wins us the game everyone will go back to saying he's the best.

steeltheone
11-16-2010, 03:45 PM
Ben is Fine...He is the least of our problems.

Lord of Lombardi
11-16-2010, 08:22 PM
I got it.... I Finally figured out why we threw the game on Sunday night. There is no other explanation.......It took 2 days but I now realize that our coordinators didn't want New England to figure out our winning formula. They figure when we meet in the playoffs that Barbie and Bilesuck will have no clue on what we're going to do. Unless they tape our practice sessions like in years past. Then again, they might just call the same game against Oakland.

I wouldn't have an answer for that

ricardisimo
11-16-2010, 11:44 PM
Come on guys, we played bad but it's one game. We definatly don't have a perfect team(nor does anyone) but we also played without both our starting tackels and ends.

As for the Ben talk, if he throws for 350 yards and 5td's next week and wins us the game everyone will go back to saying he's the best.
I'm sure the sky was falling in New England a week earlier, and a convincing victory has healed all their wounds. Unlike them and the Saints, we actually beat Cleveland, and rather convincingly at that. Still, they're great and we suck. :noidea:

Make no mistake, we've got issues that predate this game (O-line, corners, Arians) that are far from being fixed. But we also have a talented crew that should be able to over come these problems most of the time.

The things I think we need to face are coaching-related. The Arians thing is too well-hashed to go over again here. He's one of the shittiest play-callers we've ever seen here. I'm more concerned in some ways with Lebeau's recent passivity. If we're going to get torched anyway, why not blitz every down and get torched? Is there something going on that is causing him to pull back on the blitz?

I am pleased that Tomlin finally - after four years - made a move that suggests some accountability, even if it is with regards to our kicker.

mikegrimey
11-17-2010, 01:20 PM
Im gonna tell what is very interesting about this loss...think back 2 years ago when we won the superbowl. Remember when titans beat us pretty bad and we basically played as bad as last night...just a thought here and I think somebody mentioned earlier....are we purposely playing soft to not show a playoff team anything knowing we could very be playing them in the playoffs...I do believe this happens in the NFL. Remember the titans got a 2nd seed and folded after one game and we ended up winning it all. Maybe we gave them a false sense of a blueprint...just an interesting take on this...but its possible. I told my buddies back then we threw that game and would when the SB and was right.

I've read some pretty monstrous things after our loss to the Pats on sunday night but this might top them all.

The idea that the Steelers would throw a game at the midway point of the season, on their home turf, against an oppoent they know that a tie breaker could factor into seedings or a playoff bye or even home field advantage, is ludicrous.

First off you have no evidence to support your idea you only try to support it with...

Secondly, your recollection of the game in Tennessee and scenarios that followed in the 08 season is inaccurate. The game we played against them was essentially for home field advantage (since a loss would have knocked them down to 12-3 in a tie with us and we played the hapless Browns the next week) and we performed well through 2.5 quarters only to get shredded by Collins and ending up on the wrong side of some big plays.

Next, you said "the titans got a 2nd seed and folded after one game" is just not true and bizarre.

The Titans were the #1 Seed in the AFC, and while they did fold after one game, it wasn't against us. So I fail to see how your idea that the Steelers threw the game in order to lull them into a false sense of security worked. They lost a close game to the Ravens (who they beat in a close game earlier that year). While their loss helped us out and gave us home field advantage against a divisional opponent for the title game, it was by no master scheme of ours that it happened. To think that the Steelers threw a game that was for the #1 seed knowing there was a good chance of them palying in that same building (one that has given them problems) again is bizarre.

To say they threw this game is even wierder because it does nothing but adversly effect us.

DoubleYoi
11-17-2010, 02:33 PM
Some of these points are in various threads, but not collectively.

It's time we face certain truths.

1.) The Steelers were overrated, period. They had an impressive
first 4 games without Ben and everyone assumed we'd only be
getting that much _better_ with Ben back. It didn't happen. Not
in reality. For whatever reason, this team has steadily got _less_
impressive each week Ben's been back. Injuries are part of it,
but not the whole picture. Individuals, such as Troy, look .....how
do I put it? Lackadaisical? Mistake-prone? We all feared the OL
was inferior, then we thought, "They don't look that bad" as the
season began, and now they look like slow rubbish.

2.) We can now officially end the "I would take Ben over any QB
out there" nonsense. I was among those who used to make that
claim, saying with our weak OL, no one was better for the Steelers
than Ben. Wrong. If you switched QBs on last night's team, Brady
would win with Pgh's roster vs. the Pats and Ben. Period. I am beyond
sick of seeing Ben dance around almost every single play. It's a nice
option to have when you need it, but tell me a QB isn't better when he
can go through 4 progressive reads and find the open man without
the need to dance around and perform miracles just to have a chance.
Ben is a winner, over all, obviously. But his antics are now old. For
whatever reason, he feels the need to dance in the pocket every play
instead of just quickly finding an open man and getting the ball there
in a timely fashion. Something tells me Brady would not need to dance
as much if he was QB of Pgh. He would find the open man and get
him the ball with accuracy.

3.) Our D is overrated. As teams learn to just throw short passes all day
you will see our D look like they did last night. Can't run on us? Fine.
Just dice us up with short passes. They had zero answers. Don't see
why they will in the future either.

4.) I guess we still need Hines. Without him in the game, our receivers
looked like pure dog shit.

5.) Unless we get some bodies back quick, fortune is just not on our side
this season, and you don't win any hardware unless you have some good
luck on your side.

6.) Reed is toast. Missing a chip shot? Do you realize if he made his
FGs we'd actually been in the game with a chance to win down the
stretch? We can't afford a crap kicker. No way.

7.) Brady and Belichick are serious dudes about winning football game.
Have you ever seen our guys show the passion that Brady displayed
on the sidelines? Dude has mad fuel to win. Ben? He was just chillin'
out - everything was cool.


1) The Steelers were predicted by many analysts to go 8-8 or worse. Not sure how that can be considered overrated. Yes, they were later viewed as a strong playoff or SB team but that goes with the ebb and flow of any typical NFL season.

2) I'd take Ben over all but a very small handfull of QBs in the league....maybe three total. He's running for his life behind a battered O-Line but we're quick to point the finger when doesn't score more than 39 points against the Patriots.

3) Our D is looking porous as of late but they're decimated by injuries. No, it's not completely due to injuries but missing your top two DEs would just about debilitate any team in the league. Who would seriously expect a Steelers D without Smith, Kiesel and a healthy Harrison to perform without missing a step? Not this lad.

4) Of course we still need Hines Ward. When speedster Mike Wallace is your #1 receiver and ARE and Emanuel Sanders are out there trying to replace one of the most solid posession receivers in the game, you're in for a letdown.

5) You're absolutely right about needing to get bodies back. Kiesel playing against Oakland's rushing game this weekend would do a world of good. Let's just hope Aaron can make it back just in time for a stretch run.

6) Also correct about Reed. He IS toast.

7) Seeing Brady screaming on the sideline made me cringe. Showing passion and being a team leader is one thing but ripping into your teammates like he did is another. Had it been T.O. or Ocho yelling like that on the sideline, we'd be pointing and laughing at the trainwreck that is the Bengals. Because it was Brady and the Patriots won, people admire his "fuel to win." Looked like a primadonna whiner to me.

thumper
11-17-2010, 02:37 PM
Im gonna tell what is very interesting about this loss...think back 2 years ago when we won the superbowl. Remember when titans beat us pretty bad and we basically played as bad as last night...just a thought here and I think somebody mentioned earlier....are we purposely playing soft to not show a playoff team anything knowing we could very be playing them in the playoffs...I do believe this happens in the NFL. Remember the titans got a 2nd seed and folded after one game and we ended up winning it all. Maybe we gave them a false sense of a blueprint...just an interesting take on this...but its possible. I told my buddies back then we threw that game and would when the SB and was right.

I gave my friends sitting around me the exact same speech in 2008 - that the
loss could very well be the best thing to happen to us, since Pgh would now
be off the media's top contender. Ever since Cowher, and throughout Tomlin as
well, this team just doesn't play well once talking heads start stalking about them
as being the team to beat. I do NOT, feel, however, that they came into the TN
or this Pats game with the plan on playing soft. No way. That's coo coo. But, they
did come in soft, for whatever reason. Pgh always needs a down cycle before they
go on a run. Even in 1995, they were 3-4 at one point, having just lost a prime time
game to Cinci at home. And we won the AFC that year. Now, the question is: will
their down cycle be like 2005 and 2008, of like 2009 where it last far too long
making us miss the playoffs with 5 losses, 3 of which, to really bad teams at
the time (KC, Oak., Cle).

At least Tomlin didn't say he was going "unleash hell" this time, only to be
about as scary as a wet fart when it came to how they played after he said
that. He shows he does learn - something Cowher was really not very good at.
Cowher would make the same mistake over and over and over again. I hope
Tomlin knows that there are games where we must let Ben throw on more 1st downs. We were never going to succeed vs. Pats with the traditional running
game on early downs. Belichick has always taken that away from us.

pete74
11-21-2010, 07:16 PM
Come on guys, we played bad but it's one game. We definatly don't have a perfect team(nor does anyone) but we also played without both our starting tackels and ends.

As for the Ben talk, if he throws for 350 yards and 5td's next week and wins us the game everyone will go back to saying he's the best.

i had to bump this one after a game like we just had. it was the best and most wild game i have been at in a long time

tanda10506
11-21-2010, 07:41 PM
I would agree to most of what the OP was saying, but not everything. I don't think the Steelers were overrated at the beginning of the season. They beat the Falcons and the Buccs with Denis Dixon, a guy who makes Charlie Batch look like a Pro Bowl caliber QB. Then they beat the Titans who aren't to bad, and only lost by 3 to the Ravens with there 3rd string QB. If your an unbiased commentator that is rating teams and you look at that, then you would have to say the Steelers were probably the best in the league at that time. It's not that they were overrated, it's that they have gotten worse every week since then. My biggest disagreement would be about Brady winning with Pittsburgh's roster. Not a chance. While Brady is good, he is a bit on the "sissy" side and doesn't hold up to defensive pressure that well. His style rely's on good O line and quick release passes. Although the quick release passes would still be valid behind Pittsburgh's O line, the rest of his passing attack would have been garbage. Ben might not be the #1 QB, I'd say he's top 5 and maybe even top 3, but he is #1 on the run and #1 avoiding and getting out of sacks. Brady would have been hurt the 1st quarter and probably not have even finished the game, definetly would not have one it. As far as Brady looking more "pumped up" then Ben, that's typical Tom Brady big game camera work. Watch him when they drop a game to the Browns, a game that's not even televised except for maybe in Cleveland, he's just as calm as the next guy.