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Brohemoth
11-28-2010, 11:38 AM
First off I'd like to say great board you guys have here. :drink:

I have come to you looking for a second opinion. See ever since Josh McDaniels was hired as our head coach in '09 our fanbase has been split into two warring sides.

The Broncos had the #2 total offense in 2008 under Mike Shanahan. We had a foundation on offense with potential to be something great. All that needed retuning was the defense.

What does McDaniels do within his first two seasons in Denver?

1) Trades Jay Cutler (Pro Bowler)
2) Trades Brandon Marshall (Pro Bowler)
3) Trades Tony Scheffler (stud receiving tight end)
4) Trades Peyton Hillis for Brady Quinn :banging:
5) Could not co-exist with DC Mike Nolan therefore alienating and eventually dismissing the man responsible for turning our defense around in '09.
6) Trades Alphonso Smith (traded a 1st rounder in order to grab him in the '09 draft) after his first season which was extremely premature. The dude has 5 picks for Detroit this year.
7) Trades a 4th rounder for Laurence Maroney... Ugh.

Most importantly, Josh McDaniels has led a team on the brink of contention before his arrival to a 5-15 record in the last twenty games. Poor personnel and playcalling decisions have this franchise at the bottom of the league. He mopes on the sidelines when our team is down looking like a clueless child. He is losing his fanbase. I'm sure you are all aware he managed to be involved in a Spygate II. In our eyes the man's time should be done in Denver. However he is like a virus and has our owner drinking the "Patriot" kool-aid.

Another hot topic is Kyle Orton, another man who has divided our fanbase. He is putting up the stats of his life this year. However, while he is certainly not the #1 problem, he is part of it. His weaknesses are crippling our team. Whenever he is in a position for a last minute win/tie, he faulters. He'll throw an INT or fumble. His pathetic mobility leads to unnecessary sacks. He panics under pressure and drops to the ground in a fetal position when a defender is 5 yards from him. He, like his counterpart McDaniels, mopes and sits on the bench alone when the team is behind. There is no fire. Orton has us screaming for Tebow to see the field, not because he is better (yet) but for hope.

That said, I came to this forum because Steeler fans are some of the most loyal and "in-tune" fans there are. I'm looking for an opinion on the coach and player mentioned that I can bring back to Bronco nation. Maybe with an outside perspective we can settle down and find unity again. Thank you for reading and for your time. :hatsoff:

Fire Arians
11-28-2010, 11:43 AM
mcdaniels has made a lot of bad moves, hopefully he hires arians as his OC next

MACH1
11-28-2010, 12:10 PM
mcdaniels has made a lot of bad moves, hopefully he hires arians as his OC next

:chuckle:

SteelerEmpire
11-28-2010, 05:02 PM
With all the trades and changes made, McDaniels has made this current Denver team "His". It can be said the sinking of the Broncos is totally by his design. And that can be said "before" the current issue with the team.
Now. Spygate II. IF McDaniels is there next year and the Broncos start racking up wins, they will ALL be with an (*) by each of them (according to rival fans). Since the team is losing anyway, the time to get rid of McDaniels is NOW ! Because of Spygate II, the Broncos find themselves in a lose-lose situation... cut your losses and just start over. It's just not worth it...

grward
11-28-2010, 05:24 PM
With Spygate II there is no hope in repairing any damages done. I agree with Empire Steel, the asterisks will be there with any win. There's nothing good about asterisks in this league. We know, b/c we tend to have them with the Super Bowls and the claim that the refs make all the calls in favor of the Steelers. Integrity is too important to overlook it in an attempt at a successful season. Fire him now ... kinda like ripping off a bandaid ... you have to do it quick.

ricardisimo
11-28-2010, 06:04 PM
I knew McDaniels was a loser the moment he drafted Knowshon. Mind you, Moreno will probably be a stud for years to come, but the real point was that he had just spent millions of Bowlen's money on a full backfield, only to draft another back. I lost track, too... are any of them even still with the team? I'm sure there were numerous needs he could have addressed instead of RB right there, especially considering the Broncos were 29th in defense the year before.

He's a complete moron, if you ask me.

steelerchad
11-28-2010, 07:21 PM
I think McDaniels is a tool bag. Seems to have a huge ego. He ran Cutler out of town. Sure Cutler was being a whiny baby, but if you run him out you better have a good backup plan. Orton has played pretty well this year, but I think McDaniels has been fairly lucky with that. Not much Kyle Orton had done up to that point would have indicated he'd rack up the stats he has. I think some of these stats are a little misleading since your playing from behind a lot and throwing the ball to catch up. Your defense is absolutely horrendous. The Dumerville injury crippled your already below average D. McDaniels appears to be a young, ****y, egomaniac who isn't ready for the top job in the NFL. The latest cheating scandal is just the nail in the coffin. Dump this loser and start fresh. Realize that I'm all for stability as I think that's how you win in the NFL long term. I just think you need the right man before you adopt this philosophy. I'd say fire him and my team hasn't fired a coach in my lifetime (40 years).

BigRick
11-28-2010, 07:22 PM
I never was a Denver fan, but my oldest son is or was I'm not sure anymore. He hates your new coach. I hate to see any idiot dismantle a team the way he has done. Also I second the suggestion he hire Ariens then the destruction would be complete.:tt03:

ETL
11-28-2010, 07:36 PM
Please keep McDaniels as HC for a few more years. I like having one less team to worry about in the AFC

ricksteelers55
11-28-2010, 08:20 PM
They will fire him and hire Jon Gruden

ZoneBlitzer
11-28-2010, 09:37 PM
I say stick with the kid. He'll git 'er done eventually.

Third Rail
11-28-2010, 11:54 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they fired McDaniels this week. With the combination of the losing record, the Spygate incident and now with losing yet again, I think he's as good as gone. They might wait until the end of the season, but sooner or later it's happening. McDaniels has destroyed that team.

I remember when the Cutler stuff was going on, I thought McDaniels was shooting himself in the foot before he even opened the season last year. But then the Broncos won a number of games, so I thought maybe I was wrong. But then we all know what happened. I'm glad McDaniels made such an effort to prove me right. I guess I owe him one.

PhantomJB93
11-29-2010, 12:29 AM
I personally think McD is an absoulte idiot and if I were a Broncos fan I would have been screaming for him to be fired months ago.

He has yet to make one good roster move (including drafts) as a head coach, he's immature, he lies and cheats, and he loses games. Not the kind of guy I want leading my team.

LVSteelersfan
11-29-2010, 01:47 AM
It is a conspiracy by New England to take one of their AFC opponents out of the mix. Happened in Cleveland as well.

Acerinox
11-29-2010, 03:54 AM
I take the McDaniels disaster as an encouraging parallel for what's happened to the Steelers.

Mike Shanahan left a wonderful little template for victory in Denver. The Broncos were in contention pretty much every year, even without top talent at the marquee positions - as it seemed you could mostly slot any old RB into the system and have them rack up 1000 yards; or put any ragtag QB in there and have him do a job.

But it was clear from the start that McDaniels wanted to trash the template and do it his way - and in doing so basically smashed up the place and turned Denver into a basket case. You know your franchise is in trouble when it starts making a million trades and throwing future draft picks around like confetti.

This is exactly what Mike Tomlin did not do when he arrived to pick up the legacy of another big name here in Pittsburgh. He could easily have decided to do it "his way"; throw out LeBeau and the 34 for his preferred 43; take our offence more West Coast as he, again, could easily have done given the offensive talent we had at that time (and didn't have in running game/O Line terms). But instead he stuck with the principles of Cowher's heyday - and had his success, and still does.
It's one of the reasons I never understand why people knock Tomlin for "just piggybacking on Cowher's success". Great! I'm glad he did that! Long may that continue!

steelcity1974
11-29-2010, 12:01 PM
My outside perception of McD is that he is in way over his head. I recall watching the way he celebrated that first TD against the Chargers in week 11 thinking "why is he celebrating by throwing his fist as if they just got revenge on someone? This will look real stupid if the Chargers come back and kill them." Which is exactly what happened and then where was all that "world is against us" emotion? I think he got way too much credit for the NE offense. Tom Brady would make ME look like a good coach. He took over a very good team with great talent and dismantled it into a very bad team with just good talent. Rather than working through the issues with Cutler and Marshall he decided to just let them go. I think the Broncos should get rid of him...but I hope they don't because as long as he is the coach and Orten is the QB, we don't have to worry about them.

CaliStillersFan
11-29-2010, 12:13 PM
mcdaniels has made a lot of bad moves, hopefully he hires arians as his OC next

AMEN - send that man anywhere next year but please do not bring him back again. :)

As far as the OP's question - That's a tough one, I was shocked when Bowlen fired Shanahan to jump on the Belicheat lineage bandwagon. There's not been 1 coach to come out from under Belicheck to be successful yet. I used to think of Bowlen more like the Rooney's than the Kraft/Jones' but I think he made the wrong choice with McDaniels. The Broncos identity was always as a tough defensive team first, but it sure looks like McDaniels is ruining that. I can understand wanting to change the identity of a team, but getting rid of Cutler, Marshall and Hillis isn't what I call moving in the right direction. Hopefully Arians and McDaniels will be standing in the same unemployment line next season. ;)

Whodis
11-29-2010, 01:05 PM
Let me be the first to congradulate you on the hiring of new head football coach BRUCE ARIANS! Being too stupid to tape games, you will never find yourselves in a mess like this.

Fire Arians
11-29-2010, 01:23 PM
there you go mcdaniels..... HIRE ARIANS! :hope:

HOFCitySteelers
11-29-2010, 07:41 PM
His dad was my high school coach. I will say, the McDaniels family knows the game of football. I would be more than happy to see him calling plays in Pittsburgh over Ariens.

mikegrimey
11-29-2010, 07:48 PM
McDaniels has obviously tried too hard to be an auteur and put his own stamp on running things as a HC at Denver and it has been at the expense of his team.

Going for a complete overhaul and openly feuding with your star players isn't a successful blueprint for any coach.

He's made some inexplicable personnel moves ( Kyle Orton for Jay Cutler, trading numerous draft picks just to get Tebow, Peyton Hillis for Brady Quinn, insisting on using Knowshon Moreno on short yardage situations).

He's trying too hard to be Belichik but maybe he doesn't remember that Belichik didn't start out as a great coach.

He had everyone believing the hype after 6-0 in 2009 but that proved to be a run of luck at throwing darts behind your back blindly, ever since then they've been an atroscity.

mikegrimey
11-29-2010, 07:55 PM
I take the McDaniels disaster as an encouraging parallel for what's happened to the Steelers.

Mike Shanahan left a wonderful little template for victory in Denver. The Broncos were in contention pretty much every year, even without top talent at the marquee positions - as it seemed you could mostly slot any old RB into the system and have them rack up 1000 yards; or put any ragtag QB in there and have him do a job.

But it was clear from the start that McDaniels wanted to trash the template and do it his way - and in doing so basically smashed up the place and turned Denver into a basket case. You know your franchise is in trouble when it starts making a million trades and throwing future draft picks around like confetti.

This is exactly what Mike Tomlin did not do when he arrived to pick up the legacy of another big name here in Pittsburgh. He could easily have decided to do it "his way"; throw out LeBeau and the 34 for his preferred 43; take our offence more West Coast as he, again, could easily have done given the offensive talent we had at that time (and didn't have in running game/O Line terms). But instead he stuck with the principles of Cowher's heyday - and had his success, and still does.
It's one of the reasons I never understand why people knock Tomlin for "just piggybacking on Cowher's success". Great! I'm glad he did that! Long may that continue!

You make an interesting and valid point.

One of the biggest things that commentators and others observed about Tomlin in his first 2 seasons with us was how much soaking of the job he did as opposed to doing it the McDaniel's way and trying to pull a full overhaul of the system.

I can see why people criticize Tomlin for not having much of his "stamp" on the team all the time but it is a far better alternative than what happened in Denver.

MexicanBillBacker
11-29-2010, 07:58 PM
I knew McDaniels was a loser the moment he drafted Knowshon. Mind you, Moreno will probably be a stud for years to come, but the real point was that he had just spent millions of Bowlen's money on a full backfield, only to draft another back. I lost track, too... are any of them even still with the team? I'm sure there were numerous needs he could have addressed instead of RB right there, especially considering the Broncos were 29th in defense the year before.

He's a complete moron, if you ask me.


How about us?

We drafted that ****er Maybin instead of Orakpo

theplatypus
11-29-2010, 08:10 PM
Strange, I was just reading the following post over on Broncos message board. I'm still baffled by his drafting of tt in the 1st round.
**Why the team was DOOMED from the start with Josh McDaniel's**
First of all, let's get some facts cleared up.

The 2008 Denver Broncos finished the season with an offense that could fly up and down the field (who had troubles scoring), along with a powder puff defense coached by Bob Slowick.

The final rankings of the offense / defense:

Offense:

2008 offensive yards/game: 395.8

2008 offensive points/game: 23.1

2008 offensive ranking: #2 Overall


Defense:

2008 defense yards/game: 374.6

2008 points/game given up: 28.0

2008 final ranking of defense: #29 overall


Right from those specific statistics, which side of the ball needed more work? It's not calculus, or rocket science. It's not even a hard question. It's a simple answer: the defense.


The defense? It's CLEAR that the #29th ranked defense needed a MAJOR makeover.

Out goes Shanahan. A lot of people tend to forget that one of the MAIN reasons Shanahan was let go as our coach was because he didn't want to get rid of one of the weakest parts of the defense, the defensive coordinator of the #29th ranked defense: Bob Slowick.

Quote:
Three league sources said Tuesday afternoon that in a short meeting, Bowlen had wanted Shanahan to make changes on the team's coaching staff, particularly with defensive coordinator Bob Slowik, and that Shanahan had refused. http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...ree-part-ways/
Bowlen wanted a new coordinator, Shanahan didn't want to make the change. In the end, with the epic ending failure of 2008 season along with this notion, Shanahan was fired.

In comes McDaniel's as the Broncos next head coach. Here is this young coach who helped coach the Patriots to the Super Bowl, with a history breaking offense.

Some people said, why not grab a defensive minded coach? There were guys like Steve Spagnuolo and Leslie Frazier out there who even came in for an interview.

But Bowlen didn't want them, he wanted McDaniel's because he was a young and intriguing coach to him. He hired him on the notion that he was coming from a team who he helped coordinate offensively to the Super Bowl, but he also hired him on the notion that he had a job to do; fix the defense. This is Pat Bowlen, one of the most classiest, trusted, and friendliest GMs to his players. Don't even believe for one second that he had any idea of what McDaniel's was going to do to the offense, and to #6 when he hired him...

Quote:
"I looked at the possibility (of hiring a defensive-oriented coach), but the chance to get this young man was very intriguing to me. I think he's going to be a great head coach. I think he'll fix our defense." -- Bowlen, after announcing the hiring of 32-year-old New England Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels as Broncos head coach, Jan. 12, 2009.
So, McD is now the head coach of the #2 offense and the #29 ranked defense. Right from his very FIRST press conference, McD spoke highly of that offense (specifically Cutler) and what he wanted to accomplish with him:

Quote:
I think Jay is going to enjoy playing in this system, this offense. It is very quarterback-friendly once you get to the point where you can use all the tools that it gives the quarterback. Obviously, he is a very important part of our success going forward and I can't wait to get started working with him." -- McDaniel's, addressing a question about Cuter in his introductory press conference, Jan. 12, 2009.
Cutler, was also on board with McDaniel's shortly after meeting him for the first time:

Quote:
"It went really well," Cutler said. "We talked about a lot of stuff. He's very energetic. When I got off the phone, I was excited. I really was. . . . Just talked to him about the importance of our relationship."
Good work coach. I was STOKED at this stage of the game. New young head coach sought out his star 25 year old QB, and established a great relationship.

There was only ONE thing to do next, and that was FIX the #29th ranked defense.


Instead, we all know what happened. Josh McDaniel's decided to toy with his #2 offense, and put out Jay Cutler on the trading block when he heard Matt Cassel was available. The trade attempt failed, and McD lied and covered it up with the press/fan friendly response:
Quote:
"He is our quarterback."
We all know what happens next, so let's talk about the present day.


Has Josh McDaniel's upgraded the team since 2008? No he hasn't.

Let's go back to the team offensive/defensive statistics:

Quote:
2008 offensive yards/game: 395.8
2010 offensive yards/game: 359.5

2008 offensive points/game: 23.1
2010 offensive points/game: 21.7

2008 offensive ranking: #2 Overall
2010 current ranking: #11 Overall
Quote:
2008 defense yards/game: 374.6
2010 defense yards/game: 375.6


2008 points/game given up: 28.0
2010 points/game given up: 28.7

2008 final ranking of defense: #29 overall
2010 current ranking of defense: #26 overall
As you can see, the #2 overall offense has slipped to the #11 overall offense. A downgrade. 2010 offense is averaging less yards/game along with fewer points. One will say there isn't a BIG difference, but there is a difference none the less.... It's a downgrade.

How about that defense? Take a look... Josh McDaniel's has upgraded the #29th ranked defense to #26!!! Woohoo! Oh wait, take a closer look.... The 2010 defense has given up more yards/game with more points/game than the 2008 defense. This could be either good or bad... There are some games left, but seeing how the Rams could put up 431 yards and 36 points... Those numbers could actually increase (while the overall ranking could fall).



So here we are. Sitting at 3-8; 5-16 since the first six weeks of 2009.

Josh McDaniel's had ONE job to do when he arrived, and that was to fix the 2008 #29th ranked defense.

But oh no... he had to start with the 25 year old QB and the #2 offense.


So here we are today. Judging by our current recorded we have gotten worse. Judging by our offense, it has been downgraded significantly. Judging our defense? Well... I guess you could say we are either equal/worse than 2008.

We were doomed from the start.

GMU Steeler
11-29-2010, 08:50 PM
Strange, I was just reading the following post over on Broncos message board. I'm still baffled by his drafting of tt in the 1st round.

And don't forget he traded two third round picks for a 2nd round pick tight end who has yet to catch a pass in the NFL in Richard Quinn. We used one of those picks to pick a guy named Mike Wallace :). I know Urbik's since been cut and Lewis is strictly special teams at the moment but it was a good draft day trade.

BigRick
11-29-2010, 11:02 PM
His dad was my high school coach. I will say, the McDaniels family knows the game of football. I would be more than happy to see him calling plays in Pittsburgh over Ariens.

Just because his dad could coach, doesn' mean he can. Brian Griese was a great QB, but his son sucks, same for Phil Simms. Junior can't always walk in daddy's shoes. :coffee: