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View Full Version : Let's dispel the "Oil War" nonsense once and for all...


Suitanim
04-03-2006, 07:23 PM
If, in fact, the US was interested in World dominance, and oil control, why would they let a JV guy like Chavez get into a position where even the Arab members of OPEC might be fighting a losing battle?

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1745467,00.html

Ch?vez seeks to peg oil at $50 a barrel

? Price could see Venezuela producing for 200 years
? Country's reserves may exceed Saudi Arabia's

Mark Milner
Monday April 3, 2006
The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)

Venezuelan president Hugo Ch?vez is poised to launch a bid to transform the global politics of oil by seeking a deal with consumer countries which would lock in a price of $50 a barrel. A long-term agreement at that price could allow Venezuela to count its huge deposits of heavy crude as part of its official reserves, which Caracas says would give it more oil than Saudi Arabia.
"We have the largest oil reserves in the world, we have oil for 200 years." Mr Ch?vez told the BBC's Newsnight programme in an interview to be broadcast tonight. "$50 a barrel - that's a fair price, not a high price."






The price proposed by Mr Ch?vez is about $15 a barrel below the current global level but a credible long-term agreement at about $50 a barrel could have huge implications for Venezuela's standing in the international oil community. According to US sources, Venezuela holds 90% of the world's extra heavy crude oil - deposits which have to be turned into synthetic light crude before they can be refined and which only become economic to operate with the oil price at about $40 a barrel. Newsnight cites a report from the US Energy Information Administrator, Guy Caruso, suggesting Venezuela could have more than a trillion barrels of reserves.
A $50-a-barrel lock-in would open the way for Venezuela, already the world's fifth-largest oil exporter, to demand a huge increase in its official oil reserves - allowing it to demand a big increase in its production allowance within Opec.
Venezuela's oil minister Raphael Ramirez told Newsnight in a separate interview that his country plans to ask Opec to formally recognise the uprating of its reserves to 312bn barrels (compared to Saudi Arabia's 262bn) when Mr Ch?vez hosts a gathering of Opec delegates in Caracas next month.
Venezuela's ambitious strategy to boost its standing in the global pecking order of oil producers by increasing the extent of its officially recognised reserves is likely to face opposition. Some countries will oppose the idea of a fixed price for the global oil market at well below existing levels. Others are unlikely to be happy with any diminution of their influence over world oil prices in favour of Venezuela.
Caracas's hopes for an increase in its standing would be a far cry from the days when Mr Ch?vez came to power after years of quota-busting during which Venezuela helped to keep oil prices down. "Seven years ago Venezuela was a US oil colony," said Mr Ch?vez.
As he seeks to bolster his country's standing on the world stage, the Venezuelan president has also introduced radical changes to the domestic oil industry. Last Friday his government announced that 17 oil companies had agreed to changes which will see 32 operating agreements become 30 joint ventures that will give the government greater say over the country's oil industry.
The original deals were signed in the 1990s as part of a drive to attract more investment into the country's oil industry. However Mr Ch?vez said the deals gave foreign companies too much and the government too little. Under the new arrangements state-run Petroleos de Venezuela will hold 60% of the joint ventures. "Now we are associates and this commits us to much more ... it's no longer a contract for doing a service, it's a strategic alliance," Mr Ch?vez told the companies that signed up.
The new arrangements were not universally welcomed by the oil companies. Exxon Mobil and the Italian energy company Eni have refused to sign up to the new arrangements.
Mr Ch?vez, a former paratrooper who has survived several attempts to oust him and who faces re-election in December, regards Venezuela's oil revenues as crucial to his plans to fight poverty. Critics accuse him of squandering the country's oil wealth on improvised social programmes.
The Venezuelan president used the Newsnight interview to attack the role of the International Monetary Fund in Latin America, where it has a reputation for pushing market-based reforms as the price of its help to countries struggling with their finances.
The Ch?vez government has helped a number of countries, including buying Argentinian and Ecuadorean bonds, with Mr Ch?vez arguing that he would like to see the IMF replaced by an International Humanitarian Fund.
Backstory
Hugo Ch?vez was born in 1954. The former paratroop colonel first came to prominence after a failed coup in 1992, for which he was jailed for two years. He was elected president of Venezuela in 1998, launching a social programme known as Bolivarianism, after the revolutionary Sim?n Bol?var, and reversing planned privatisations. In 2002 he survived a coup attempt and, two years later, a bid to unseat him in a referendum. He has close links with Cuba's Fidel Castro and has frequently clashed with the United States.

tony hipchest
04-03-2006, 07:46 PM
you gotta appreciate the fact that this chavez guy has balls of steel.

im not sure if i understand if hes proposing an offer to lock in at the price of $50 bucks a barrel for years to come? even though its supercrude this would still be really cheap 100 years down the road.

or is he looking to dump it at a present inflated price before it becomes obsolete? anyways it looks like hes in a win-win situation.

Suitanim
04-03-2006, 07:50 PM
He can't possibly befriend us publicly...he's a "communist" or whatever...but let's face it, he's got the product, and there's only one guy on the block who's got the need and the money to pay for it. If we could open this up, we could tell the whole middle east to "suck it"...

This would also open mile-wide holes in that lame theory that the only reason we went to Iraq was oil. In fact, we went to Iraq because we should have never LEFT Iraq in the first place...oil is only important when you look at the big picture, and the UN/US STABILIZING oil. Somebody has to stabilize the forces controlling the blood of the world.

tony hipchest
04-03-2006, 08:09 PM
He can't possibly befriend us publicly...he's a "communist" or whatever...but let's face it, he's got the product, and there's only one guy on the block who's got the need and the money to pay for it. If we could open this up, we could tell the whole middle east to "suck it"...

This would also open mile-wide holes in that lame theory that the only reason we went to Iraq was oil. In fact, we went to Iraq because we should have never LEFT Iraq in the first place...oil is only important when you look at the big picture, and the UN/US STABILIZING oil. Somebody has to stabilize the forces controlling the blood of the world.

i cant wait til fidel dies. chavez got a set of stones and whether he likes it or not, hes already thinking like an american.

so true on never leaving iraq. all my horses were hitched to schwartzkopfs waggon at the time. sometimes the generals really do know whats best. and he was a hell of a general. as far as the blood of the world, its funny how oil and religion mix. i dont think there will ever be any stabilization, but pulling $$$ out their pockets is probably a great start. we have definitely made the region far too powerful.

MasterOfPuppets
04-03-2006, 08:23 PM
i got one word....ETHANOL

put the farmers back in business,and tell the arabs to go suck a big one!!!!

j-dawg
04-03-2006, 08:28 PM
In Ecuador, for every $100 of crude taken out of the Ecuadorian rain forests, the oil companies receive $75. Of the remaining $25, three-quarters must go to paying off the foreign debt, which our country put them in. Most of the remainder covers military and other government expenses - which leaves about $2.50 for health, education, and programs aimed at helping the poor.

In November of last year President Bush went on a Latin American tour. He had tough remarks aimed at Venezuela's populist president Hugo Chavez. He called on Latin America to choose between two competing futures - an American-supported "vision of hope" and another that "seeks to roll back the democratic progress of the past two decades."

There IS a war in Latin America for their oil, it's not waged with tanks and guns, it's waged in espionage and complacent governments. There's a history in that region that you should read up on before you "dispel" the fact that our world economy isn't dictated by oil... and that war is no less an option than supporting a monarchy or dictator in our need for it.

SteelShooter
04-03-2006, 10:55 PM
In Ecuador, for every $100 of crude taken out of the Ecuadorian rain forests, the oil companies receive $75. Of the remaining $25, three-quarters must go to paying off the foreign debt, which our country put them in. Most of the remainder covers military and other government expenses - which leaves about $2.50 for health, education, and programs aimed at helping the poor.

In November of last year President Bush went on a Latin American tour. He had tough remarks aimed at Venezuela's populist president Hugo Chavez. He called on Latin America to choose between two competing futures - an American-supported "vision of hope" and another that "seeks to roll back the democratic progress of the past two decades."

There IS a war in Latin America for their oil, it's not waged with tanks and guns, it's waged in espionage and complacent governments. There's a history in that region that you should read up on before you "dispel" the fact that our world economy isn't dictated by oil... and that war is no less an option than supporting a monarchy or dictator in our need for it.


I completely agree Bro. I'm a veteran of 19yrs in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club (U.S. Navy) and still active duty. I've been to Somalia, Desert Shield/Storm, OIF (I and II), and a number of other deployemts to the Middle East.
The worlds economy is driven by oil. Without it, we would return to the proverbial age of steam, coal, and horses.
Yes, we have to stabilize the region, we have to insure a steady and dependable flow of oil, not just for ourselves, but for the world. Without it, more wars would break out, more "ethnic cleansing" in the lesser countries, etc.......
We shoulda finished it the first time.

MasterOfPuppets
04-03-2006, 11:18 PM
I completely agree Bro. I'm a veteran of 19yrs in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club (U.S. Navy) and still active duty. I've been to Somalia, Desert Shield/Storm, OIF (I and II), and a number of other deployemts to the Middle East.
The worlds economy is driven by oil. Without it, we would return to the proverbial age of steam, coal, and horses. Yes, we have to stabilize the region, we have to insure a steady and dependable flow of oil, not just for ourselves, but for the world. Without it, more wars would break out, more "ethnic cleansing" in the lesser countries, etc.......
We shoulda finished it the first time.
this is simply not true....
Ethanol is a clean-burning, high-octane fuel that is produced from renewable sources. At its most basic, ethanol is grain alcohol, produced from crops such as corn. Because it is domestically produced, ethanol helps reduce America's dependence upon foreign sources of energy.

Pure, 100% ethanol is not generally used as a motor fuel; instead, a percentage of ethanol is combined with unleaded gasoline. This is beneficial because the ethanol:

decreases the fuel's cost
increases the fuel's octane rating
decreases gasoline's harmful emissions
Any amount of ethanol can be combined with gasoline, but the most common blends are:

E10 - 10% ethanol and 90% unleaded gasoline

E10 is approved for use in any make or model of vehicle sold in the U.S. Many automakers recommend its use because of its high performance, clean-burning characteristics. In 2004, about one-third of America's gasoline was blended with ethanol, most in this 10% variety.

E85 - 85% ethanol and 15% unleaded gasoline

E85 is an alternative fuel for use in flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs). There are currently more than 4 million FFVs on America's roads today, and automakers are rolling out more each year. In conjunction with more flexible fuel vehicles, more E85 pumps are being installed across the country. When E85 is not avaialble, these FFVs can operate on straight gasoline or any ethanol blend up to 85%.

It is important to note that it does not take a special vehicle to run on "ethanol". All vehicles can use E10 with no modifications to the engine. E85 is for use in a flexible fuel vehicle, so some people confuse "ethanol" with the blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.

there was a special on cnn about this very subject last night. brazil claims by the end of next year,they'll be completly oil unindependant.

SteelShooter
04-03-2006, 11:32 PM
this is simply not true....
Ethanol is a clean-burning, high-octane fuel that is produced from renewable sources. At its most basic, ethanol is grain alcohol, produced from crops such as corn. Because it is domestically produced, ethanol helps reduce America's dependence upon foreign sources of energy.

Pure, 100% ethanol is not generally used as a motor fuel; instead, a percentage of ethanol is combined with unleaded gasoline. This is beneficial because the ethanol:

decreases the fuel's cost
increases the fuel's octane rating
decreases gasoline's harmful emissions
Any amount of ethanol can be combined with gasoline, but the most common blends are:

E10 - 10% ethanol and 90% unleaded gasoline

E10 is approved for use in any make or model of vehicle sold in the U.S. Many automakers recommend its use because of its high performance, clean-burning characteristics. In 2004, about one-third of America's gasoline was blended with ethanol, most in this 10% variety.

E85 - 85% ethanol and 15% unleaded gasoline

E85 is an alternative fuel for use in flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs). There are currently more than 4 million FFVs on America's roads today, and automakers are rolling out more each year. In conjunction with more flexible fuel vehicles, more E85 pumps are being installed across the country. When E85 is not avaialble, these FFVs can operate on straight gasoline or any ethanol blend up to 85%.

It is important to note that it does not take a special vehicle to run on "ethanol". All vehicles can use E10 with no modifications to the engine. E85 is for use in a flexible fuel vehicle, so some people confuse "ethanol" with the blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.

there was a special on cnn about this very subject last night. brazil claims by the end of next year,they'll be completly oil unindependant.

MP, Good info. I was one of those "uninformed" concerning the E10 blend. But, realistically, until we take some of these lobbyists power away, I do not see it being readily available all over the place. Perhaps in certain areas. But, until our Government, most specifically Congress and the Senate, quits worrying about lining their pockets and more about our country then we will NOT have a viable, HIGHLY available alternative fuel. I remember Congress fighting the militarys annual raise back in the late 80's-early 90's, while at the same time voting a raise for themselves. We need to fight Big Brother first......then the rest will happen.
Thank you for the additional info. I will be looking for the E10 blend here in my area.

tony hipchest
04-04-2006, 12:11 AM
this is simply not true....
Ethanol is a clean-burning, high-octane fuel that is produced from renewable sources. At its most basic, ethanol is grain alcohol, produced from crops such as corn. Because it is domestically produced, ethanol helps reduce America's dependence upon foreign sources of energy.

Pure, 100% ethanol is not generally used as a motor fuel; instead, a percentage of ethanol is combined with unleaded gasoline. This is beneficial because the ethanol:

decreases the fuel's cost
increases the fuel's octane rating
decreases gasoline's harmful emissions
Any amount of ethanol can be combined with gasoline, but the most common blends are:

E10 - 10% ethanol and 90% unleaded gasoline

E10 is approved for use in any make or model of vehicle sold in the U.S. Many automakers recommend its use because of its high performance, clean-burning characteristics. In 2004, about one-third of America's gasoline was blended with ethanol, most in this 10% variety.

E85 - 85% ethanol and 15% unleaded gasoline

E85 is an alternative fuel for use in flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs). There are currently more than 4 million FFVs on America's roads today, and automakers are rolling out more each year. In conjunction with more flexible fuel vehicles, more E85 pumps are being installed across the country. When E85 is not avaialble, these FFVs can operate on straight gasoline or any ethanol blend up to 85%.

It is important to note that it does not take a special vehicle to run on "ethanol". All vehicles can use E10 with no modifications to the engine. E85 is for use in a flexible fuel vehicle, so some people confuse "ethanol" with the blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.

there was a special on cnn about this very subject last night. brazil claims by the end of next year,they'll be completly oil unindependant.my step-father worked for ford's engine developmental dept in detroit in the 70's. he told me the story of the ethanal developmental program that went on. who better to make the purest grain alchohol other than southern moonshiners. ford actually employed 2 kentucky (i think) moonshiners and moved them up into the labs in michigan. he said these 2 hillbillies were pretty much freaked out by the technology and surroundings because they were used to working with such crude equipment.

the point of his story (which he told me over 10 years ago) was that ethanol was a hit. (this is going back to the lines at the gas pumps in the 70's) the govt. conviniently blocked the introduction of ethanol and introduced "methanaol".

for those who dont know the rest of the story, methanol pretty much rotted a car from the inside and public perception of ethanol being equated with methanol pretty much scrapped any government support for any further research.

to this day the oil companies and their shareholders are greatful.

its easy to grow corn.

alot easier than developing dinosaurs, killing and burying them and waiting for them to turn to oil.

when the oil is gone, there will be plenty of room for the corn to grow.

MasterOfPuppets
04-04-2006, 01:11 AM
my step-father worked for ford's engine developmental dept in detroit in the 70's. he told me the story of the ethanal developmental program that went on. who better to make the purest grain alchohol other than southern moonshiners. ford actually employed 2 kentucky (i think) moonshiners and moved them up into the labs in michigan. he said these 2 hillbillies were pretty much freaked out by the technology and surroundings because they were used to working with such crude equipment.

the point of his story (which he told me over 10 years ago) was that ethanol was a hit. (this is going back to the lines at the gas pumps in the 70's) the govt. conviniently blocked the introduction of ethanol and introduced "methanaol".

for those who dont know the rest of the story, methanol pretty much rotted a car from the inside and public perception of ethanol being equated with methanol pretty much scrapped any government support for any further research.

to this day the oil companies and their shareholders are greatful.

its easy to grow corn.

alot easier than developing dinosaurs, killing and burying them and waiting for them to turn to oil.

when the oil is gone, there will be plenty of room for the corn to grow.

for those who dont know the rest of the story, methanol pretty much rotted a car from the inside and public perception of ethanol being equated with methanol pretty much scrapped any government support for any further research.

Ethanol has a lower BTU value than gasoline, meaning that ethanol burns cooler and is gentler on the vehicle's engine - less wear and tear leads to longer engine life.
Ethanol is a clean-burning fuel that reduces carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon tailpipe emissions.
Ethanol is an oxygenate, and that oxygen allows it to burn more cleanly and more completely than gasoline.
http://www.ethanol.org/usingethanol.html

to this day the oil companies and their shareholders are greatful.

and here we have it!!! big business still pulls the puppets(politicians) strings....so they'll do all they can to still keep ethanol down. this is a very doable solution to the ever emerging oil crises,but of course greed will prevail over patriotism ,as always!!!

Suitanim
04-04-2006, 07:43 AM
There IS a war in Latin America for their oil, it's not waged with tanks and guns, it's waged in espionage and complacent governments. There's a history in that region that you should read up on before you "dispel" the fact that our world economy isn't dictated by oil... and that war is no less an option than supporting a monarchy or dictator in our need for it.

Reading comprehension, my friend. Learn it, live it, love it...

oil is only important when you look at the big picture, and the UN/US STABILIZING oil.

j-dawg
04-04-2006, 11:54 AM
Reading comprehension, my friend. Learn it, live it, love it...

?If the U.N. Secretary building in NY lost 10 stories, it wouldn?t make a bit of difference.? -John Bolton U.S. diplomat to U.N.


i comprehend english quite well my friend.

Suitanim
04-04-2006, 02:33 PM
Then surely you're going to go back and correct your earlier post...

j-dawg
04-04-2006, 02:40 PM
i believe the problem is interpretation not comprehension...

Stlrs4Life
04-05-2006, 04:28 PM
this is simply not true....
Ethanol is a clean-burning, high-octane fuel that is produced from renewable sources. At its most basic, ethanol is grain alcohol, produced from crops such as corn. Because it is domestically produced, ethanol helps reduce America's dependence upon foreign sources of energy.

Pure, 100% ethanol is not generally used as a motor fuel; instead, a percentage of ethanol is combined with unleaded gasoline. This is beneficial because the ethanol:

decreases the fuel's cost
increases the fuel's octane rating
decreases gasoline's harmful emissions
Any amount of ethanol can be combined with gasoline, but the most common blends are:

E10 - 10% ethanol and 90% unleaded gasoline

E10 is approved for use in any make or model of vehicle sold in the U.S. Many automakers recommend its use because of its high performance, clean-burning characteristics. In 2004, about one-third of America's gasoline was blended with ethanol, most in this 10% variety.

E85 - 85% ethanol and 15% unleaded gasoline

E85 is an alternative fuel for use in flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs). There are currently more than 4 million FFVs on America's roads today, and automakers are rolling out more each year. In conjunction with more flexible fuel vehicles, more E85 pumps are being installed across the country. When E85 is not avaialble, these FFVs can operate on straight gasoline or any ethanol blend up to 85%.

It is important to note that it does not take a special vehicle to run on "ethanol". All vehicles can use E10 with no modifications to the engine. E85 is for use in a flexible fuel vehicle, so some people confuse "ethanol" with the blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.

there was a special on cnn about this very subject last night. brazil claims by the end of next year,they'll be completly oil unindependant.


Thanks for the info, great post.

Suitanim
04-05-2006, 05:38 PM
Here's the problem with E85, as I understand it. First off, it's generally more expensive than regular unleaded gas(http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-02-14-e85-usat_x.htm?POE=TECISVA). That alone makes it impractical for the typical cost-conscience consumer. Secondly, it generates roughly 25% inferior gas mileage.

When faced with a decsion at the pump, most consumers will simply drive over to the regular gas that's cheaper, and oil dependency be damned.

You think differently? Then why do people continue to pound the nails in the coffin of American made goods by shopping at Wal-Mart?

tony hipchest
04-05-2006, 05:59 PM
Here's the problem with E85, as I understand it. First off, it's generally more expensive than regular unleaded gas(http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-02-14-e85-usat_x.htm?POE=TECISVA). That alone makes it impractical for the typical cost-conscience consumer. Secondly, it generates roughly 25% inferior gas mileage.
?the problem is not with the ethanol itself:
"The price of ethanol has been driven up because major oil refiners are suddenly buying in bulk. They're stocking up on ethanol as a replacement for MTBE, a petroleum-based additive suspected of causing cancer. MTBE and ethanol boost the octane of gasoline and can reduce pollution.

MTBE isn't officially banned, but oil companies are switching to avoid lawsuits."

how convinient for the oil companies. lets hope theyre not gonna show it corrodes engines. oh wait that happened in the 70's under the guise of "methanol".

the oil companies dont want the fact that fuel made out of corn can be much cheaper just like the cigarette companies didnt want the consumers to find their product caused cancer. if ethanol could reduce the price per gALLOn in half then the 25% less mileage is still a 25% savings for the consumer. the inefficiency rating becomes moot when it can be produced so much cheaper.

buying up the supply of the new product and sitting on it is a very savy business strategy to either get rid of your product sooner or to even artificially giving the competing product it a higher price and bad public stigma.

the oil companies would love to see an ethanol movement fizzle out and die. unfortunately at this time our dependence on foreign oil is getting out of hand and making too many bastards powerful. and alternative source of power is needed more than ever.

Suitanim
04-05-2006, 06:12 PM
Well, isn't the net effect still the same?

tony hipchest
04-05-2006, 06:22 PM
Well, isn't the net effect still the same? unfortunately it is. to me the definition of the term "going to hell in a handbasket" is continuing our reliance on the middle easterns and making them some of the richest nations (and biggest threats) thanks to their oil. eventually their schools will start teaching the kids that we are their dogs. if they dont already.

the oil companies in america just wanna milk it till its dry. we could discover a way to run our cars on air with the addition of a $50 part and they would try to block it somehow.

MasterOfPuppets
04-05-2006, 06:30 PM
Here's the problem with E85, as I understand it. First off, it's generally more expensive than regular unleaded gas(http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-02-14-e85-usat_x.htm?POE=TECISVA). That alone makes it impractical for the typical cost-conscience consumer. Secondly, it generates roughly 25% inferior gas mileage.

When faced with a decsion at the pump, most consumers will simply drive over to the regular gas that's cheaper, and oil dependency be damned.

You think differently? Then why do people continue to pound the nails in the coffin of American made goods by shopping at Wal-Mart?
yeah your right suit,it does cost more to refine ethanol as apposed to oil. so as it stands right now you do get more for your dollar with gas. but when opec decides they want $100 a barrel,and gas goes up to $5 a gallon......well....lets just say we need to be prepared.

tony hipchest
04-05-2006, 06:48 PM
yeah your right suit,it does cost more to refine ethanol as apposed to oil. so as it stands right now you do get more for your dollar with gas. but when opec decides they want $100 a barrel,and gas goes up to $5 a gallon......well....lets just say we need to be prepared. from what i understand ethanol was proven easier and cheaper to refine way back in the 70's and that hillbillie moonshiners were even brought in as consultants on deriving the purest form. after all no one had more experience with grain alchohol than the bootleggers. point is you can make it with corn and copper tubing. much cheaper than an off shore drilling platform and a tanker.

i was hoping ethanol would carry us over till fuel cell technology took over but there just doesnt seem to be enough incentives for the auto makers convert and the extra costs will always be passed to the consumer. once the oil runs out this stuff will be cheap. but until then it will probably be something only the upper class treehuggers (seahawk:sofunny: fans) can afford.

Hawk Believer
04-05-2006, 07:07 PM
but until then it will probably be something only the upper class treehuggers (seahawk:sofunny: fans) can afford.
:blurp: Touche. I wish I had extra dough for fuel. I just filled up at $2.75 a gallon. Ouch. Its only April. My 17 miles to the gallon S-10 is starting to become a liability since my job requires a lot of driving.

You know what is going out here in "treehugger" land more and more is biodiesel. Lots of folks are grabbing used fryer oil from fast food restaurants (cheap but you end up smelling like french fries). And there are some stations with biodiesel that are popping up, especially in lefty neighborhoods. It costs about $3.05 per gallon last I checked. Last summer there was a point where biodiesel was cheaper than regular diesel. I imagine that will happen again this summer. But once more people start using biodiesel, it will be interesting to see what happens with its price as its demand rises.