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Third Rail
12-06-2010, 05:02 PM
I don't always agree with him, but Whitlock is one of my favorite sports writers and I think he hit this one on the head. Also, I love that he names Troy as an MVP candidate. It's about someone threw his name out there for that. It doesn't ALWAYS have to be a QB.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/tom-brady-not-peyton-manning-is-best-qb-of-this-generation-120610

Brady, not Manning, is era's best QB

For those of us who have long been skeptical of the national media’s premature and unjustified anointment of Peyton Manning as the greatest quarterback of all time, our day is here.


Sunday, Manning continued to show his age (34), tossing four interceptions, including two pick-6s, in the Colts’ 38-35 loss to the Cowboys. At 6-6, there’s a good chance Indy won’t make the playoffs. Manning is having his worst season in nine years (24 TDs, 15 INTs).

His apologists blame his poor play on injuries to Dallas Clark and Joseph Addai, a leaky offensive line and the lack of a consistent running game.

To his credit, Peyton Manning blames Peyton Manning.

“I threw four interceptions to guys who were covered, and the ball shouldn’t have been thrown,” Manning told Indy reporters after the game. “I’ve either got to throw it away or throw it to somebody else. That’s basic football. The quarterback’s job is to protect the ball, and I’m not following through on that.”

If the media didn’t overhype Manning, he might be one of my all-time favorite players. He’s a stand-up guy and a marvelous player. He’s just not the best QB of all time. He’s not the best QB of this era.

Tom Brady is.

Monday night, when the Jets and Patriots square off in a blockbuster matchup, Brady has a chance to take control of the MVP race and demonstrate the intangible that makes him a better quarterback than Manning.

Brady is fearless. Two years after the knee injury I thought would undermine his pocket toughness, Brady is back to being Brady, a courageous, unflappable pocket passer.

He’s thrown 23 touchdown passes and just four interceptions. He’s leading the league in passer rating. A victory Monday night, and the Patriots will tie the Falcons for the league’s best record (10-2).


When it comes to evaluating Brady, it’s always about more than statistics. There are no stats for courage and leadership. They’re like obscenity. You know them when you see them. Look at the smooth way Brady and Bill Belichick ushered locker-room cancer Randy Moss out of New England. That’s leadership.

Standing in the pocket and taking a hit rather than nervously throwing into coverage is leadership, too. Manning has always thrown more interceptions (and a higher percentage of INTs) than Brady because Manning has always gone to greater lengths to avoid contact.

Playoff teams are adept at hitting the opposing quarterback. That explains the dramatic difference between Brady’s and Manning’s playoff records and performances (Brady three Super Bowls and Manning one). Three-four, exotic zone-blitz defenses get inside Manning’s head. They make him think and panic.

Let me repeat: I do not dislike Peyton Manning. He’s one of the 10 best QBs of all time. What bothers me is people think he’s better than Tom Brady. It’s just not true.

In five years, Big Ben Roethlisberger might move ahead of Manning on my list. Regardless of what Roger Goodell does to NFL rules, football is always going to be a game defined by toughness. Did you watch Big Ben Sunday night?

The Ravens broke his nose in the first quarter and Big Ben never blinked. He never thought about coming out of the game. And down the stretch, against the meanest defense in football, Big Ben fought off Terrell Suggs and avoided a sack on one play and threw the game-winning TD pass two plays later.

There is no stat for playing with a broken nose. There is no stat for fighting off Suggs and throwing the ball away. If the league kept those stats, we know Roethlisberger and Brady would rank higher on the chart than Manning.

Maybe after Monday night, if Brady survives Rex Ryan’s punishing defense and the Patriots win, I’ll win some more converts. Maybe a second MVP award for Brady will help him close the Manning gap.


And, yes, as of right now, Brady deserves the MVP award more than Michael Vick.

I said “as of right now.”

Vick is an incredible story. His 467 rushing yards and six rushing TDs add a dimension to his candidacy that Brady can’t match. But Vick hasn’t played enough and the Eagles are 8-4. I’m open to changing my mind over the last month of the season.

Right now it’s Brady, followed by Vick and Pittsburgh safety Troy Polamalu.

In terms of best QB of this era, it’s Brady, followed by Manning and Roethlisberger. I’m not open to changing my mind about that.

Merchant
12-06-2010, 05:20 PM
Good read..

Personally, I think the top 5 of this era have been...

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Roethlisberger
4. Favre
5. Brees

#1LambertFan
12-06-2010, 05:36 PM
Good read..

Personally, I think the top 5 of this era have been...

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Roethlisberger
4. Favre
5. Brees

But still you gotta consider the talent that surrounds him. The Patsies always have a prolific offense held by an incredible O-line and very good receivers. Brady is excellent but I still couldnt ever dream of comparing him to Marino. I do agree with your list though given all things.

MattsMe
12-06-2010, 05:38 PM
1. Brett Favre
2. Brett Favre
3. Brett Favre
4. Brett Favre
5. Brett Favre's penis.

tony hipchest
12-06-2010, 05:48 PM
:sofunny:

MattsMe
12-06-2010, 05:56 PM
I read another interesting Whitlock article today.

In the fourth quarter of the same game, with the Colts trailing by nine points, Philly’s Trent Cole beat Indy’s left tackle and executed the perfect tomahawk-chop sack/strip on fourth-and-18. Game over.

Not quite.

A ref flagged Cole for unnecessary roughness. Cole’s hand hit the back of Manning’s helmet as he chopped down on the ****ed football. The penalty gave Indy a first down. The Colts scored a touchdown, cutting Philly’s lead to 26-24.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-officials-need-a-bigger-safety-net-jason-whitlock-110810

So tell me, how is that play somehow worse than Ben getting hit in the ****ing face hard enough to break his nose?


I guess we can at least take a little comfort in knowing that this bullshit isn't going unnoticed. Don't expect it to change though.

MDSteel15
12-06-2010, 05:58 PM
1. Brady
2. Roethlisberger
3. Warner
4. P.Manning
5. Favre

GMU Steeler
12-06-2010, 06:02 PM
Ben's detractors talk about how he lucked by going to the Steelers but they never mention that he held his own as a 22 year old rookie. Yeah he didn't have to throw as much back then but I remember his rookie season. One of his most impressive passing games was a win against the Patriots who were on a huge winning streak at the time and the next week he led the team to a victory of the Eagles who were also undefeated. Both those two teams played in the SB that year. Yeah Ben will never be Manning or Brady but you know what that's fine with me. He's tougher and has more heart than both of them. It's not just playing with the broken nose and hurt foot like he did last night but other things like playing a week following an appendicomy. believe me I've had one of those and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. And he's one of the best clutch QBs in the game if not the best.

LukesDad88
12-06-2010, 06:11 PM
But still you gotta consider the talent that surrounds him. The Patsies always have a prolific offense held by an incredible O-line and very good receivers. Brady is excellent but I still couldnt ever dream of comparing him to Marino. I do agree with your list though given all things.

A HS backup can look brilliant if he knows the coverages and the rush package before each snap.

Just sayin.

Third Rail
12-06-2010, 08:14 PM
Ben's detractors talk about how he lucked by going to the Steelers but they never mention that he held his own as a 22 year old rookie. Yeah he didn't have to throw as much back then but I remember his rookie season. One of his most impressive passing games was a win against the Patriots who were on a huge winning streak at the time and the next week he led the team to a victory of the Eagles who were also undefeated. Both those two teams played in the SB that year. Yeah Ben will never be Manning or Brady but you know what that's fine with me. He's tougher and has more heart than both of them. It's not just playing with the broken nose and hurt foot like he did last night but other things like playing a week following an appendicomy. believe me I've had one of those and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. And he's one of the best clutch QBs in the game if not the best.

Quoted for truth. I think Ben would still get back in to play if he had a gunshot wound. The guy is tough as nails.

Whodis
12-06-2010, 08:18 PM
Don't know if anyone saw PTI this eve. Wilbon stated if his team was behind with 2 minutes to go there is no one better to have then Ben Roethlisberger.

330steelerguy
12-06-2010, 09:10 PM
I'm not sure why but lastnights game to me was one of the gutseist I've ever seen. As far as clutch goes Ben has to be one or two right now,and if we ever have a line before he retires he could be scary good.

TRH
12-06-2010, 09:28 PM
Manning = they're "blaming injuries and a leaky offensive line". Hmmmmmmmm. I think i've heard that somewhere before. Like in Pittsburgh all the time.

It just shows how valuable and good Ben really is. I hate Brady, never like him, but i agree he's better than Manning. I've always thought Manning was over-rated and he was always protected by an elite o-line.
Some people just automatically look at stats too, but erroneously. Of course you're going to pass for 4 or 5 thousand yards every year when you're putting the ball in the air 45, 50 times every game (like Manning)

zulater
12-06-2010, 09:51 PM
1. Brett Favre
2. Brett Favre
3. Brett Favre
4. Brett Favre
5. Brett Favre's penis.

:toofunny:

lionslicer
12-06-2010, 09:51 PM
But still you gotta consider the talent that surrounds him. The Patsies always have a prolific offense held by an incredible O-line and very good receivers. Brady is excellent but I still couldnt ever dream of comparing him to Marino. I do agree with your list though given all things.

Its how someone utilizes talent.... Look how many average quarterbacks had Fitz/Boldin and Issac Bruce/Holt and couldn't do anything, Warner seemed to conect the dots in how to use them. I could name more but I'm lazy to look up names right now. Brady did win superbowls with really no one on offense but he had a good defense that got turnovers when it mattered.

BigRick
12-06-2010, 10:46 PM
Manning = they're "blaming injuries and a leaky offensive line". Hmmmmmmmm. I think i've heard that somewhere before. Like in Pittsburgh all the time.

It just shows how valuable and good Ben really is. I hate Brady, never like him, but i agree he's better than Manning. I've always thought Manning was over-rated and he was always protected by an elite o-line.
Some people just automatically look at stats too, but erroneously. Of course you're going to pass for 4 or 5 thousand yards every year when you're putting the ball in the air 45, 50 times every game (like Manning)

I believe you nailed it. I live close to Indy and have to listen to the whining Dolts every time I watch the news. News Flash Manning actually admitted some of the recent interceptions were his fault. :rofl:

lionslicer
12-06-2010, 11:14 PM
I believe you nailed it. I live close to Indy and have to listen to the whining Dolts every time I watch the news. News Flash Manning actually admitted some of the recent interceptions were his fault. :rofl:

Some? I thought he admitted to all, I've never heard Peyton blame anything but himself for anything that goes wrong. Even if the defense gives up like 40 points he'll blame himself for not scoring enough, which is what drives him to be so great. I don't think this is the end of Manning and he'll just turn into Favre for the next few seasons and never retire and keep throwing costly interceptions.

SteelKnight
12-06-2010, 11:19 PM
I'm still keeping Ben fourth. I like his grit but his accuracy is lacking sometimes. There are times if he hits the receiver in stride the YAC would be more.

Tier 1
1. Brady
2. Brees
3. Manning

Tier 2
4. Ben
5. Vick -if he can keep it up
6. Rogers -has trouble closing sometimes
7. Rivers - has trouble closing sometimes

Tier 3
8. Matty Ice
9. Tony Romo
10. Eli Manning
11. Joe Flacco

Tier 4
12. Josh Freeman
13. Sam Bradford

Tier 5
14. Jay Cutler
15. Mark Sanchez

Third Rail
12-07-2010, 12:45 PM
Well, I think part of the problem sometimes is the receivers themselves. People always complain about him not getting Wallace the deep ball, but look what happened when he tried that on Sunday. The ball hit the dirt in the endzone because Wallace, fast as he is, wasn't fast enough. Mike usually is plenty fast, but I wanted to kick him for missing that one. It was a surefire TD.

I think the interception might have been a similar thing. It went right into the arms of a defensive back, but I'd be more prone to blame the mediocre rookie WR who couldn't get separation than the Super Bowl winning QB.

MDSteel15
12-07-2010, 01:08 PM
Don't know if anyone saw PTI this eve. Wilbon stated if his team was behind with 2 minutes to go there is no one better to have then Ben Roethlisberger.

Wilbon must of fell and hit his head! He usually is all over McScabs butternuts...

tanda10506
12-07-2010, 01:32 PM
Surprised to see so many people putting Brady over Manning. Not saying it's not true, it probably is, but it's almost unfair considering the differences in the teams. Manning has had a handful of good recievers over the years, but Brady has always been surrounded by talent. Of course Manning's struggles can be placed on a bad O line and running game. Look how bad our line makes Ben look. Manning has single handedly won a super bowl and took them to another, with consistent playoff appearances. So has Brady, but with a superior coach and loads of talent. This will always be what makes this question almost impossible to answer 100%.

I would say its:
#1. Brady
#2. Manning
#3. Roethlisberger

On any given day, any of those 3 QB's can be the best though, but for an era that's how they would stack up. I didn't make a top 5 because I don't see anybody who would be destinctively a number 4 or 5.

MDSteel15
12-07-2010, 01:35 PM
Tier 1
1. Brady
2. Brees
3. Manning

Tier 2
4. Ben
5. Vick -if he can keep it up
6. Rogers -has trouble closing sometimes
7. Rivers - has trouble closing sometimes

Tier 3
8. Matty Ice
9. Tony Romo
10. Eli Manning
11. Joe Flacco

Tier 4
12. Josh Freeman
13. Sam Bradford

Tier 5
14. Jay Cutler
15. Mark Sanchez

Looking at this, WHY does everyone keep putting Peyton in the top 3 even though he chokes in the playoffs? 1-1 in SBs and only what, 2-5 in AFC championship games? Until this tear he has been loaded with WRs and TEs to throw to and can't get it done but one time...

MDSteel15
12-07-2010, 01:40 PM
Surprised to see so many people putting Brady over Manning. Not saying it's not true, it probably is, but it's almost unfair considering the differences in the teams. Manning has had a handful of good recievers over the years, but Brady has always been surrounded by talent. Of course Manning's struggles can be placed on a bad O line and running game. Look how bad our line makes Ben look. Manning has single handedly won a super bowl and took them to another, with consistent playoff appearances. So has Brady, but with a superior coach and loads of talent. This will always be what makes this question almost impossible to answer 100%.

I would say its:
#1. Brady
#2. Manning
#3. Roethlisberger

On any given day, any of those 3 QB's can be the best though, but for an era that's how they would stack up. I didn't make a top 5 because I don't see anybody who would be destinctively a number 4 or 5.

PLEASE tell me you are kidding? Manning had 2 potential HOF WRs in Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne!! PLUS a potential HOF (for his receiving) TE in Dallas Clark!!! RB Edgerin(sp) James was not mediocre, and if it were not for injuries his starting RB this year is not slouch either!!! Other that the past 3 years with Randy Moss and Welker, who has Brady had that was so great?

steelerjim58
12-07-2010, 10:17 PM
I am also surprised at all the love brady is getting on here. While I do believe that he is a good qb, I believe that he like montana is the product of a system that is tailor made to make a qb look good. He makes his living for the most part by throwing slants and screen passes and getting crazy yac. He probably throws more passes that go 10 or less yards from the los { with that being the first read} than any qb in the league. When you are throwing those types of passes your ints are likely to be low.

4xSBChamps
12-08-2010, 06:34 AM
I am also surprised at all the love brady is getting on here. While I do believe that he is a good qb, I believe that he like montana is the product of a system that is tailor made to make a qb look good. He makes his living for the most part by throwing slants and screen passes and getting crazy yac.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/movies/ZANG.jpg

Brady is good, but through no-fault of his-own, his numbers are a reflection of the system & era in-which he plays ~ if this stuff was done before the 1980's, his receivers wouldn't be running-free through the secondary like deer at a wild-life preserve:
on 3rd & 2, nobody lined-up in the empty-backfield / spread formation, and offensive linemen weren't allowed to hol... err... I mean... open their hands & grab jerseys while pass-blocking

Brady, Manning & Montana would've survived, prospered & won in the earlier era, but not to the extend they have

zsheik22
12-08-2010, 07:55 AM
Brady is clutch at getting his team into field goal range and winning each superbowl by 3 and off vinatieri's foot.