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dyce23
12-06-2010, 10:44 PM
Pretty much every Steeler fan wants Bruce Arians out. With the firing of Josh McDaniels as a HC in Denver, how do ya'll feel about the possibility of bringing him in to be our OC next year? I know every time someone is cut or fired, there's a thread about em, but this one actually seems, at least to me, to be a very interesting idea. Look what he's done for Orton and the passing offense of the Broncos...also his success with the Pats as an OC. I would seriously consider this if I had any say.

tony hipchest
12-06-2010, 10:47 PM
mcdaniels is horrible.

he rode bradys coat tails, and then destroyed the broncos.

BigRick
12-06-2010, 10:54 PM
Let him rot somewhere else.

MasterOfPuppets
12-06-2010, 11:07 PM
i'll say pass....:popcorn:

LVSteelersfan
12-06-2010, 11:32 PM
You have got to be kidding. Orton has huge numbers but that team is worse in the red zone than the Steelers are. We don't need that Belichick disciple clown anywhere near this team.

MACH1
12-06-2010, 11:44 PM
He couldn't pull out a win while cheating. Pass

jjpro11
12-07-2010, 12:05 AM
i don't want that cheating Patriots bastard anywhere near our team. the Patriots are doing just fine without him.

TRH
12-07-2010, 12:14 AM
Another good reason why "stat sheets" on QB's (in this example, Orton), don't always amount to a hill of beans and almost never tell the whole story.
At the 1st of the year, i thought Arians had a chance to go after this year is through....but at 9-3 and us surely to win another couple games, don't expect B.A. to go anywhere next year, once again. I would almost guarantee he'll be exactly where he is right now at this time next year.

Fire Arians
12-07-2010, 12:15 AM
mcdonalds sucks

sharkweek
12-07-2010, 03:19 AM
lol, no f***ing way

SacknificentStew56
12-07-2010, 04:02 AM
I wouldn't bring McDaniels in as our waterboy. He was a successful cheater who got caught and fired. Ben's production will continue to get better because he's a winner and because of his athletic ability. Keep him away from our team.

steelerchad
12-07-2010, 07:53 AM
On paper McDaniels might look like a good offensive mind. But he's won 5 of his last 22 games in Denver. Those offensive stats Orton has are very misleading. Kind of like Ben throwing 3 TD's and over 300 yards against New England. On paper, that looks pretty good. This is why stats are for losers. No thanks on McDaniels. He has driven a once proud organization over a cliff. In his 2 years there, he has set them back 5.

cubanstogie
12-07-2010, 08:29 AM
Stupid idea. Why is it every OC under Belicheat who has been highly touted has gone on and basically failed. Every offense has been solid yet the coordinator can't do squat. That tells me that its more about players than the OC. I support BA about a 7.5 on a 10 scale, probably a lot more than most but just don't see a knew OC helping our line block, recievers make a tough catch and create seperation. I would like to see Ben call his own plays for a game or 2 and see what happens though. Especially in the red zone. IF we could be more successful in red zone it would be huge. We are pretty balanced so its not like D's can stack box or play nickel throughout. Ben feels the flow of game and I am sure has a good feel of what plays to call. Cut the cord and let him loose.

Rick5895
12-07-2010, 09:45 AM
He really knows personell too, Trading Hillis, Marshall, Cutler, and Scheffler, and receiving nothing. The man is an idiot!!!!

Third Rail
12-07-2010, 11:36 AM
If we hired McDouchebag to OC, here's pretty much what would happen...

1. Ben would be shopped around in the off season. When he found out about it, Josh would lie to him and he'd eventually demand to be traded. So when that inevitably happens, we'd probably end up with someone like Rex Grossman as our starting quarterback and a college phenom QB who is in no way ready to play in the NFL would be our first round draft pick.

2. McDaniels would decided that Mike Wallace is an asshole for some reason and eventually have him traded.

3. McDaniels would make Mendenhall's peridocially awful play a constant thing, and he'd finish the season with about 300 yards on the ground.

4. McDaniels would be fired at the end of the season and Bruce Arians would be getting a call from the Steelers' front office since he won't be busy.

cloppbeast
12-07-2010, 12:01 PM
I think we should go after Mike Martz. :chuckle:

Seriously though, no to McDaniels.

I don't think it will happen, but maybe Chan Gailey could get fired or quit in Buffalo. I'd love to have him back.

Whodis
12-07-2010, 12:03 PM
I think we should work on getting Arians to Denver

truesteelerfan
12-07-2010, 12:20 PM
I'd take him....I dislike Ariens that much that I'd take anyone of us on this board as our OC over him...So sure...bring him on. Ariens is so predictable in his playcalling that other teams are laughing at us...if not for our O talent, we'd have the reverse record of what we really do.

mikegrimey
12-07-2010, 01:26 PM
All of the negative things people are bringing up here about McDaniels are things he has done as a head coach, as a coordinator he would be an upgrade over Arians undoubtedly.

MDSteel15
12-07-2010, 01:38 PM
He really knows personell too, Trading Hillis, Marshall, Cutler, and Scheffler, and receiving nothing. The man is an idiot!!!!

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!!! :chuckle:

stb_steeler
12-07-2010, 01:39 PM
And u thought Arians is bad.........:coffee:

MDSteel15
12-07-2010, 01:40 PM
All of the negative things people are bringing up here about McDaniels are things he has done as a head coach, as a coordinator he would be an upgrade over Arians undoubtedly.

He cheats... NO :banging:

mikegrimey
12-07-2010, 02:32 PM
He cheats... NO :banging:

Sorry but I'm not going to let a little spat like what happened over in England blind the fact that McDaniels would be a better OC than Arians. What he got busted for was not reporting what happened to the NFL in a timely manner. It is unproven that he instructed the camerman to film the 49ers practicing. I grant you it's possible but not definite.

OTher than that the other allegations against him are all blunders he made as a head coach with a lot of hubris. As a coordinator again he'd be humbled.

So bang your head against the wall all you want but McDaniels would be an upgrade over Arians without a doubt.

dyce23
12-07-2010, 02:47 PM
Wow. Really guys? I mean, as a Head Coach, yes...he sucks. As a coordinator though? Are ya'll serious? He destroyed the Broncos, no doubt. As a coordinator though, he did well in NE. Yes, he had Brady, but he also helped Matt Cassel look really good too. If I had a choice between him and Arians, it would be McDaniels no doubt. I think he's a good OC...just a horrible head coach.

Steelboy84
12-07-2010, 06:06 PM
Norv Turner needs to get fired, then come to Pittsburgh as O.C.

Steeler4life1972
12-07-2010, 06:35 PM
You can absolutely forget McDaniels coming here....not gonna happen!!! I dont want the prick!!!

SteelCityMom
12-07-2010, 08:01 PM
I pretty much get tired of all these what if threads that get started when a player or coach is cut or fired...but I gotta say, most times a burnt piece of toast would do a better job than Arians, so I probably wouldn't be against MickeyD coming here. He can't do any worse, that's for sure.

Set-Man
12-07-2010, 08:31 PM
McDaniels to Pitt: Hell No.
I agree with the Norv Turner vote but that is likely not happening.

On that tune I was watching the Patriots demolish the Jets. I was amazed at their plays. They have some kickass routes, etc with their running backs and slot receivers. The fact that they do this with new players had me amazed. We should be able to do the same things with our players. Even the Jets had a couple of plays with Santonio coming out the backfield that looked good.

Two things for next season. New offensive lineman and a new OC.

ricardisimo
12-07-2010, 08:35 PM
I pretty much get tired of all these what if threads that get started when a player or coach is cut or fired...but I gotta say, most times a burnt piece of toast would do a better job than Arians, so I probably wouldn't be against MickeyD coming here. He can't do any worse, that's for sure.
Rye or sourdough?

pitt0wns
12-07-2010, 08:42 PM
McD is too ****y and thinks he is God

SteelCityMom
12-07-2010, 08:43 PM
Rye or sourdough?

Definitely burnt rye...it tastes worse.

Big
12-07-2010, 10:00 PM
Arians isn't going anywhere until he quits. I wish he would retire now, but he will be resigned to a 2-3 year extension at the end of this year, then he may call it quits.

ricardisimo
12-07-2010, 10:16 PM
Arians isn't going anywhere until he quits. I wish he would retire now, but he will be resigned to a 2-3 year extension at the end of this year, then he may call it quits.
My understanding was that he is not well, health-wise, and that this is almost certainly his last season. Maybe I imagined that.

PhantomJB93
12-07-2010, 10:27 PM
I dont want McDaniels, but Arians needs to go. Every once in a while he calls an "okay" play but for every good playcall he has 10 utterly assinine ones. Seriously here is the Arians gameplan, no matter who the opponent is...

1. Run up middle
2. Run up middle
3Long -Deep to Wallace
3short -Run up Middle with Redman
Punt

GL
1. Run up middle
2. Run up Middle
3. Run up middle with Redman
4. FG

Once every game: Run off tackle to right; good for 10+ yards every time but never call more than once per game
Five times every game: Run off tacke left, never works but the opponent will be expecting off tackle to the right so run left to fool them

Throw in a couple bubble screens, sub in Mewelde Moore for entire drives at a time, and that is literally ever Steeler game in a nutshell. a 10 year old could call a better game

mikegrimey
12-08-2010, 01:03 PM
I dont want McDaniels, but Arians needs to go. Every once in a while he calls an "okay" play but for every good playcall he has 10 utterly assinine ones. Seriously here is the Arians gameplan, no matter who the opponent is...

1. Run up middle
2. Run up middle
3Long -Deep to Wallace
3short -Run up Middle with Redman
Punt

GL
1. Run up middle
2. Run up Middle
3. Run up middle with Redman
4. FG

Once every game: Run off tackle to right; good for 10+ yards every time but never call more than once per game
Five times every game: Run off tacke left, never works but the opponent will be expecting off tackle to the right so run left to fool them

Throw in a couple bubble screens, sub in Mewelde Moore for entire drives at a time, and that is literally ever Steeler game in a nutshell. a 10 year old could call a better game

You know it's been a while since I've seen one of those Hines Ward bubble screens, maybe 4 whole games. Yet I think you're description of an a-typical Arian's called drive is ludicrous. Just last season everyone was deriding him as "air head Arians" but fast forward one year and some are pretending he only calls "runs up the middle" on first and second down.

plenewken
12-08-2010, 01:51 PM
Pretty much every Steeler fan wants Bruce Arians out. With the firing of Josh McDaniels as a HC in Denver, how do ya'll feel about the possibility of bringing him in to be our OC next year?.

It'll never happen and it's a good thing

grward
12-08-2010, 02:15 PM
Here's the problem, one of two things can happen.

1) We have a successful season, you can define this how you'd like. Some would say you have to win it all, others would say that a 13-3 season with one or two playoff wins would be enough to classify as successful. If this happens, Arians will be around for a few more years.

2) We have a losing season, aka we don't make the playoffs. Considering our record thus far, it is unlikely this will happen, BUT could result in some changes at the OC position.

I for one would opt for 1. I would love it to end with another trophy, however, I'm also not delusional enough to think that every year we have to, or even could, win the Super Bowl.

So as long as we are in the hunt each year, I'm afraid he's here to stay. They won't fire him simply b/c we are predictable or rank low in offense.

Whodis
12-08-2010, 02:35 PM
So as long as we are in the hunt each year, I'm afraid he's here to stay. They won't fire him simply b/c we are predictable or rank low in offense.

Why did we fire our Special Teams Coach?

GMU Steeler
12-08-2010, 02:54 PM
Why did we fire our Special Teams Coach?

We gave up I think 7 kick off/punt returnds for TDs last year. Is this the last year of Arians' contract? They could always let it expire rather than outright firing him.

Big
12-08-2010, 04:53 PM
My understanding was that he is not well, health-wise, and that this is almost certainly his last season. Maybe I imagined that.

You may be right because I know I have heard that as well.

finesward
12-08-2010, 05:19 PM
First all the arian haters are bitching because he would throw on first down almost always, now the same one's are bitching because he's calling runs on first down. Then everyone was bitching about not being creative and doing some trickery, now he calls reverses and passes from el that have rarely worked and the same one's are bitching about calling stupid trick plays. This is so old, talk about predictable! It's the moron fan's that start a fire arians thread every game that are predictable. You only see the o-line and the QB on the TV, you don't know what the coverage is, what receivers are being covered. NFL network had some good shots of ben's sacks and other plays when there was absolutely no one open. We don't have a great group of WR's...sorry but we don't. We have a big play guy in wallace who is still in his second year and learning mind you, a slow WR in hines who isn't getting open much on scrambles like he used to, el' who has lost a step, and two rookies who have shown they are rookies. Tons of dropped passes this year. A shitty O-line who does best run blocking (hence the runs morons) and you guys STILL lament that it's entirely the fault of the guy standing on the sidelines. Yeaaaahhhh riggghhhttttt.... F'n enough guys. He's not going anywhere, and neither are the haters apparently... F'n captain hindsights, all of yins http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/shared/downloads/wallpaper/season-14/1412/1412b_captain-hindsight_thumb.jpg?width=320

SH-Rock
12-08-2010, 05:40 PM
Why we really hate Arians is because is his bad play calling. I'm all fine with run, run, pass if it works. I'm fine with throwing it on first down if it works. But what Arians does is he repeats this every sing f-ing play. This would be a drive

Run, Run Pass
Run, Run Pass

Punt

theplatypus
12-08-2010, 05:49 PM
First all the arian haters are bitching because he would throw on first down almost always, now the same one's are bitching because he's calling runs on first down. Then everyone was bitching about not being creative and doing some trickery, now he calls reverses and passes from el that have rarely worked and the same one's are bitching about calling stupid trick plays. This is so old, talk about predictable! It's the moron fan's that start a fire arians thread every game that are predictable. You only see the o-line and the QB on the TV, you don't know what the coverage is, what receivers are being covered. NFL network had some good shots of ben's sacks and other plays when there was absolutely no one open. We don't have a great group of WR's...sorry but we don't. We have a big play guy in wallace who is still in his second year and learning mind you, a slow WR in hines who isn't getting open much on scrambles like he used to, el' who has lost a step, and two rookies who have shown they are rookies. Tons of dropped passes this year. A shitty O-line who does best run blocking (hence the runs morons) and you guys STILL lament that it's entirely the fault of the guy standing on the sidelines. Yeaaaahhhh riggghhhttttt.... F'n enough guys. He's not going anywhere, and neither are the haters apparently... F'n captain hindsights, all of yins http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/shared/downloads/wallpaper/season-14/1412/1412b_captain-hindsight_thumb.jpg?width=320

+1!

Rotorhead
12-08-2010, 07:25 PM
No the bitching is because he calls the worst plays at the worst times, consistently which I have outlined in other posts. And his pass plays are WAY too long which requires Ben to hang on the ball longer than he already does. And he just doesn't know what a fullback is used for or when to use one. If he is so amazing, why does the no-huddle work better than his crap calls. I dont give a rats ass what his "gameplan" is, but for petes sake dont call a dam draw on 3 rd and 19 or 4 and forever. At least look like you are trying for a 1st down instead of pulling random plays out of your hat. Reverses are fine, but use wallace cause he actually has the speed to turn the corner. Use a fullback to (get this) LEAD BLOCK on 1st and G on the 2 to punch it in. Why dont you watch the games.

Set-Man
12-08-2010, 07:41 PM
I am not even going to complain about the run, run , pass plan. The actual plays are not that great all the time. Once in a while he will call a decent game but that is about 1 in 3 games. Instead of Mendenhall getting hit 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage half the time, use a frickin lead blocker. Being stubborn and trying to prove that we do not need a fullback is helping nobody. Using a bubble screen to a receiver on a 3rd and 6 doesn't have a good percentage of being successful.

I agree that we cannot blame Arians for everything but he needs to design plays that fit the team (ie: short passes instead of long routes in which BR is trying to make a play and gets sacked.

The no huddle where BR calls the plays seems to go better but that is my opinion.

cubanstogie
12-08-2010, 10:13 PM
No the bitching is because he calls the worst plays at the worst times, consistently which I have outlined in other posts. And his pass plays are WAY too long which requires Ben to hang on the ball longer than he already does. And he just doesn't know what a fullback is used for or when to use one. If he is so amazing, why does the no-huddle work better than his crap calls. I dont give a rats ass what his "gameplan" is, but for petes sake dont call a dam draw on 3 rd and 19 or 4 and forever. At least look like you are trying for a 1st down instead of pulling random plays out of your hat. Reverses are fine, but use wallace cause he actually has the speed to turn the corner. Use a fullback to (get this) LEAD BLOCK on 1st and G on the 2 to punch it in. Why dont you watch the games.

the game dictates what is called. Thanks to our D we can play conservative. When we play the Ratbirds it is about field position and not turning the ball over. I would love to play like the Pats d id agains the Jets and just keep playing like its 0-0 but we don't have that kind of team. Is it really about play calling, or execution. IMO and it is only my opinion I don't claim to know it all but you don't win the game by good play calling. Sure certain situations the right play call can make a huge difference but like timing the stock market, you can't consistently due it. At some point you have to be able to execute. If its 3rd and 2 and you can run it by overpowering the other team its a lot simpler than trying to play a chess game. Arians has a limited arsenal, every time Ben drops back there is a 33% chance there will be holding, 33% percent chance he will be rushed, and a 33% chance he actually has time to let the play develop. Not good odds.

tony hipchest
12-08-2010, 10:25 PM
Arians has a limited arsenal, every time Ben drops back there is a 33% chance there will be holding, 33% percent chance he will be rushed, and a 33% chance he actually has time to let the play develop. Not good odds.

:tap: ahhhh... so THAT is why arians choses to pass more than run.

"that'll really fool them!" :muhaha:

cubanstogie
12-08-2010, 10:34 PM
actually we seem to be more balanced this year than last, but thats not to say we can run the ball down their throats. We can run just enough to keep the D honest. Its not like I think BA is in the upper echelon of OC's but with our O line I don't see another guy making a difference. I still think we can win the SB this year with BA, need to stop with the 8 penalties a game , dropped passes and turning it over and we have a chance.

tony hipchest
12-08-2010, 10:45 PM
we are definitely WAY more balanced this year than last. the fact that we are 10th in the league speaks volumes. mendenhall has more carries per game than all but 1 other back which proves he is being used as a bell cow back he is capable of.

i give bruce credit for listening to his boss's preseason demands and proving to himself that it can be done. i just wish he didnt preface it with that line of BS that he was told to run the ball "more effectively", not necessarilly more.

he definitely hasnt been horrible this year, by any means, and is tons better than last year when his sole focus was getting ben to the pro-bowl.

but just because he is doing fairly decent doesnt mean there arent candidates out there who can do significantly better.

(for example- dumping him for c. weiss woulda been an upgrade)

lionslicer
12-08-2010, 11:01 PM
Steelers organization would never hire someone who's cheated inthe past

finesward
12-09-2010, 06:39 AM
No the bitching is because he calls the worst plays at the worst times, consistently which I have outlined in other posts. And his pass plays are WAY too long which requires Ben to hang on the ball longer than he already does. And he just doesn't know what a fullback is used for or when to use one. If he is so amazing, why does the no-huddle work better than his crap calls. I dont give a rats ass what his "gameplan" is, but for petes sake dont call a dam draw on 3 rd and 19 or 4 and forever. At least look like you are trying for a 1st down instead of pulling random plays out of your hat. Reverses are fine, but use wallace cause he actually has the speed to turn the corner. Use a fullback to (get this) LEAD BLOCK on 1st and G on the 2 to punch it in. Why dont you watch the games.

Using a fullback would work...IF we had a fullback on the roster. We don't. We drafted one (frank the tank) and tried to convert one this year and NEITHER have panned out. That's the players, not the coach's fault. Using our 3rd TE as a fullback would be a good idea, if the guy could block consistently. Truth is he doesn't. I do watch the games and half the time johnson motions into the FB spot he ends up getting blown up back into mendy instead of busting through the line. (Rewatch the saints game where we ran 3 times on the goal line if you need an example of the FB getting blown up or whiffing his block)
Also calling a draw on 3rd and forever is a great call when you consistently pick up 8 or 9 yards with moore. That's called field position, ever heard of it? Why chance an incompletion when the defense is playing 3 lineman and the rest DB's? You take what they give you.
His pass plays that take so long to develop are big plays when they are successful, so would you rather do the dink and dunk offense like brady? We aren't built for that, sorry, maybe you should cheer for a different team.
Live by the sword, die by the sword with this offense. It complements our defense better than the dink and dunk high scoring passing attacks like the pats. Our D is too old to play that much in a game. So we play possession football and try to sustain long drives to wear out the opponent and keep our D fresh longer into the game.

StillerzFreak
12-09-2010, 09:56 AM
Using a fullback would work...IF we had a fullback on the roster. We don't. We drafted one (frank the tank) and tried to convert one this year and NEITHER have panned out. That's the players, not the coach's fault. Using our 3rd TE as a fullback would be a good idea, if the guy could block consistently. Truth is he doesn't. I do watch the games and half the time johnson motions into the FB spot he ends up getting blown up back into mendy instead of busting through the line. (Rewatch the saints game where we ran 3 times on the goal line if you need an example of the FB getting blown up or whiffing his block)
Also calling a draw on 3rd and forever is a great call when you consistently pick up 8 or 9 yards with moore. That's called field position, ever heard of it? Why chance an incompletion when the defense is playing 3 lineman and the rest DB's? You take what they give you.
His pass plays that take so long to develop are big plays when they are successful, so would you rather do the dink and dunk offense like brady? We aren't built for that, sorry, maybe you should cheer for a different team.
Live by the sword, die by the sword with this offense. It complements our defense better than the dink and dunk high scoring passing attacks like the pats. Our D is too old to play that much in a game. So we play possession football and try to sustain long drives to wear out the opponent and keep our D fresh longer into the game.

Bruce? is that you? :wave:

Rotorhead
12-09-2010, 11:37 AM
Really, MEMO gained yardage against the Ravens def, or for that matter did any of our draw plays gain 8-9 yds? Please enlighten my on what quarter? And stating " go with what works" in a BA off is clearly showing your lack of knowledge of this team. BA is the epitome of NOT going with what works. The no huddle works EVERYTIME we run it. There is a time to take a shot or 2 down field but not most plays. And honestly lately teams are stopping the deep ball to Wallace. As far as how our def is built, it is to stop the run and bend but not break on the passing plays hoping someone can make a big play. Won't work against the Pats. And going 3 and out most plays actually forces our def to play MORE as does scoring on big plays! So that logic is flawed. If you read my post I never suggested we pass on that play, but try something that at least has a chance to get the first. Field position is much better if you actually gain yardage before you punt. Not to mention we didn't really have a punter so why not try, hell I will say it now, and pass to get the first.

Whodis
12-09-2010, 11:59 AM
I'm still hung up on the fact that a few games we went to a "no huddle" offense (not to be confused with "hurry up") and it worked great. Of course after we get a lead we alway go to what doesn't work. Prevent defense and a normal offensive game plan.

However, all of you Arians lovers may have a point! He just may be a wolf in sheeps clothing. He may look dumb and do dumb things, but come playoffs when he unleashes hell on this league this board will owe you an apology! starting with me!

finesward
12-09-2010, 02:34 PM
Really, MEMO gained yardage against the Ravens def, or for that matter did any of our draw plays gain 8-9 yds? Please enlighten my on what quarter? And stating " go with what works" in a BA off is clearly showing your lack of knowledge of this team. BA is the epitome of NOT going with what works. The no huddle works EVERYTIME we run it. There is a time to take a shot or 2 down field but not most plays. And honestly lately teams are stopping the deep ball to Wallace. As far as how our def is built, it is to stop the run and bend but not break on the passing plays hoping someone can make a big play. Won't work against the Pats. And going 3 and out most plays actually forces our def to play MORE as does scoring on big plays! So that logic is flawed. If you read my post I never suggested we pass on that play, but try something that at least has a chance to get the first. Field position is much better if you actually gain yardage before you punt. Not to mention we didn't really have a punter so why not try, hell I will say it now, and pass to get the first.

I'm so sorry it wasn't memo, it was redman, and it wasn't 8 yards it was 12. Excuuuuuuuuuuussse me!

2nd quarter, 3rd and 19

3-19-PIT 21 (13:43) (Shotgun) 33-I.Redman right tackle to PIT 33 for 12 yards (20-E.Reed).

The result of gaining 12 yards backed up on our own 21 allowed us to punt 50 some yards pinning the ravens @ their own 14...except webb ran it back 35 yards and seppy hurt his knee. But still you see how much of a swing that was in field position, minus the one big return.

And since your putting words in my mouth "go with what works"?? really where did i say that. I said take what the D gives you. Did you somehow chinese whisper that into go with what works? I don't understand... Our defense is one of the oldest group of guys in the NFL. Our O philosophy is to own the time of possession, build a lead, and grind out the game. Win field position and time of possession. That's what we did against the birds...who were 2 big pass plays away from being shut out tbh. We may not have picked up first downs consistently against the ravens but we did win the field position battle early on. Throwing a ton like the pats would not suit our defense one bit. We did it last year and our old D had how many late game collapses because they were tired? I'd rather run 2 or 3 times and pass once and give the defense a break, then go 3 and out passing and only give them a cpl minutes breather.

Again, you reference a play that we did gain yardage on, 12 to be exact, and in which we DID have our punter. So what game were you watching?

finesward
12-09-2010, 02:37 PM
I'm still hung up on the fact that a few games we went to a "no huddle" offense (not to be confused with "hurry up") and it worked great. Of course after we get a lead we alway go to what doesn't work. Prevent defense and a normal offensive game plan.

However, all of you Arians lovers may have a point! He just may be a wolf in sheeps clothing. He may look dumb and do dumb things, but come playoffs when he unleashes hell on this league this board will owe you an apology! starting with me!

he's saving it for the playoffs...05' all over again baby. get those im sorry letters ready to be signed come feb! lol

SH-Rock
12-09-2010, 03:00 PM
What about Wade Philips. Sure he isn't the fire up type of guy, but I think Tomlin could do that.

Rotorhead
12-09-2010, 06:01 PM
No you referenced a play where we had our punter, I referenced a play in the third quarter and a play from last season (to illustrate consistncy). If you meant Redman then fine, he had a good game. My point was in key situations BA tends to call plays which make no sense. Example from above: late in the game, 3rd and long, no punter ( although our kicker was doing a great job), we are behind, so the choice is a draw play which had little effect all game then punt it for field position without our punter, or let our game changing QB we are paying $100m to go for a first. That is situational football. Or 1st and goal on the 2 and we give it the lead blocker instead of our starting RB, then no lead block to our runner, then don't even attempt to throw into the endzone. Hell Redman's TD should have been stopped if it werent for the poor tackling, BA better have bought him a steak dinner! Another example, last 2 plays of our last superbowl; play before the miracle catch was the perfect call; miracle was absolutely a bad call but he was bailed out by a great catch. I honestly don't hate the guy but he needs to improve in his situational play calling. I like several of his plays and when we don't have to adjust his play calling for the situation and we execute he dies fine.

Rotorhead
12-09-2010, 06:03 PM
Dam iPhone corrects incorrectly way too much, anyway I am done arguing about BA, we won and I am happy we will probably will get a bye and A Smith back!

finesward
12-10-2010, 06:09 AM
No you referenced a play where we had our punter, I referenced a play in the third quarter and a play from last season (to illustrate consistncy). If you meant Redman then fine, he had a good game. My point was in key situations BA tends to call plays which make no sense. Example from above: late in the game, 3rd and long, no punter ( although our kicker was doing a great job), we are behind, so the choice is a draw play which had little effect all game then punt it for field position without our punter, or let our game changing QB we are paying $100m to go for a first. That is situational football. Or 1st and goal on the 2 and we give it the lead blocker instead of our starting RB, then no lead block to our runner, then don't even attempt to throw into the endzone. Hell Redman's TD should have been stopped if it werent for the poor tackling, BA better have bought him a steak dinner! Another example, last 2 plays of our last superbowl; play before the miracle catch was the perfect call; miracle was absolutely a bad call but he was bailed out by a great catch. I honestly don't hate the guy but he needs to improve in his situational play calling. I like several of his plays and when we don't have to adjust his play calling for the situation and we execute he dies fine.

Please specify what play your referencing. I'm not seeing a 3rd and long late in the game where there was a draw play. Sorry, but there were these late in the game

3-10-PIT 44 (5:36) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 85-D.Johnson to PIT 50 for 6 yards (26-D.Landry).

3-13-PIT 13 (10:02) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to 86-H.Ward.

3-7-BAL 27 (11:04) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to 88-E.Sanders (37-J.Wilson).

I would quit arguing too because you don't have much leg to stand on... Sure there are bad calls at times, but you know if the players execute you really don't remember those calls. Like the quick pitch to wallace after the 2 runs. He doesn't dance so much and try to juke @ the three and instead lowers his shoulder and bursts to the pylon he maybe scores and we aren't having this discussion.

Rotorhead
12-10-2010, 09:27 AM
I have deleted the game from my DVR in order to record Xmas stuff. I am tired of arguing with you and as me not having a leg to stand on you fit that cat more than I. Your first post to me is completey contradictory. I certainly hope the team can continue winning despite BA's mostly poor calls and plans. This is my opinion and the only way I will change it is if BA stops calling those play to lose plays. Time to focus on the bungles for me.

finesward
12-10-2010, 11:08 AM
No dvr? Play by plays are readily available online. Here ya go, show me the 3rd and long late in the game you claim we did a draw play on and pretty much based your whole "situational football" theory on...


# 4th Quarter

1. Pittsburgh Steelers continues ...
2. 1-2-BAL 2 (15:00) 33-I.Redman up the middle to BLT 4 for -2 yards (55-T.Suggs).
3. 2-4-BAL 4 (14:20) 34-R.Mendenhall left guard to BLT 5 for -1 yards (55-T.Suggs).
4. 3-5-BAL 5 (13:37) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 17-M.Wallace to BLT 1 for 4 yards (31-F.Washington, 26-D.Landry).
5. 4-1-BAL 1 (12:52) (Field Goal formation) 6-S.Suisham 19 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-60-G.Warren, Holder-9-D.Sepulveda. WATCH HIGHLIGHT
6. Baltimore Ravens at 12:46
7. 6-S.Suisham kicks 76 yards from PIT 30 to BLT -6. 16-D.Reed, Touchback. PENALTY on PIT-84-A.Brown, Offside on Free Kick, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 30 - No Play.
8. 6-S.Suisham kicks 68 yards from PIT 25 to BLT 7. 16-D.Reed to BLT 34 for 27 yards (29-R.Mundy).
9. 1-10-BAL 34 (12:39) 18-D.Stallworth right end to BLT 23 for -11 yards (56-L.Woodley). Reverse
10. 2-21-BAL 23 (11:59) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 27-R.Rice to BLT 36 for 13 yards (51-J.Farrior, 24-I.Taylor).
11. 3-8-BAL 36 (11:22) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short middle to 18-D.Stallworth [94-L.Timmons].
12. 4-8-BAL 36 (11:17) (Punt formation) 4-S.Koch punts 48 yards to PIT 16, Center-46-M.Cox, fair catch by 84-A.Brown.
13. Pittsburgh Steelers at 11:11
14. 1-10-PIT 16 (11:11) 34-R.Mendenhall left tackle to PIT 18 for 2 yards (95-J.Johnson).
15. 2-8-PIT 18 (10:36) (No Huddle) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to 34-R.Mendenhall.
16. 3-8-PIT 18 (10:31) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 17-M.Wallace to PIT 29 for 11 yards (20-E.Reed). PENALTY on PIT-79-T.Essex, Illegal Formation, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 18 - No Play.
17. 3-13-PIT 13 (10:02) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to 86-H.Ward.
18. 4-13-PIT 13 (9:54) (Punt formation) 6-S.Suisham punts 39 yards to BLT 48, Center-60-G.Warren, out of bounds.
19. Baltimore Ravens at 09:46
20. 1-10-BAL 48 (9:46) 27-R.Rice right tackle to PIT 49 for 3 yards (94-L.Timmons, 92-J.Harrison).
21. 2-7-PIT 49 (9:09) 27-R.Rice left tackle to PIT 48 for 1 yard (51-J.Farrior).
22. 3-6-PIT 48 (8:28) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short middle to 81-A.Boldin (99-B.Keisel).
23. 4-6-PIT 48 (8:21) (Punt formation) 4-S.Koch punts 35 yards to PIT 13, Center-46-M.Cox, fair catch by 82-A.Randle El.
24. Pittsburgh Steelers at 08:14
25. 1-10-PIT 13 (8:14) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 17-M.Wallace to PIT 20 for 7 yards (52-R.Lewis).
26. 2-3-PIT 20 (7:40) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 17-M.Wallace to PIT 44 for 24 yards (25-C.Carr).
27. 1-10-PIT 44 (7:00) 34-R.Mendenhall left guard to PIT 46 for 2 yards (52-R.Lewis, 92-H.Ngata).
28. 2-8-PIT 46 (6:19) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 44 for -2 yards (93-C.Redding). WATCH HIGHLIGHT
29. 3-10-PIT 44 (5:36) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 85-D.Johnson to PIT 50 for 6 yards (26-D.Landry).
30. 4-4-PIT 50 (5:36) (Punt formation) 6-S.Suisham punts 46 yards to BLT 4, Center-60-G.Warren. 20-E.Reed to BLT 4 for no gain (57-K.Fox). PENALTY on PIT-23-K.Lewis, Player Out of Bounds on Punt, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 50 - No Play.
31. 4-9-PIT 45 (4:52) (Punt formation) 6-S.Suisham punts 39 yards to BLT 16, Center-60-G.Warren. 21-L.Webb to BLT 28 for 12 yards (97-J.Worilds).
32. Baltimore Ravens at 04:43
33. 1-10-BAL 28 (4:43) 23-W.McGahee right tackle to BLT 30 for 2 yards (51-J.Farrior, 94-L.Timmons).
34. 2-8-BAL 30 (4:01) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short right to 85-D.Mason. PENALTY on PIT-20-B.McFadden, Defensive Pass Interference, 8 yards, enforced at BLT 30 - No Play.
35. Timeout #1 by BLT at 03:56.
36. 1-10-BAL 38 (3:56) 27-R.Rice right tackle to BLT 43 for 5 yards (96-E.Hood, 99-B.Keisel).
37. 2-5-BAL 43 (3:22) 5-J.Flacco sacked at BLT 38 for -5 yards (43-T.Polamalu). FUMBLES (43-T.Polamalu) [43-T.Polamalu], RECOVERED by PIT-56-L.Woodley at BLT 28. 56-L.Woodley to BLT 9 for 19 yards (83-E.Dickson). WATCH HIGHLIGHT
38. Pittsburgh Steelers at 03:13
39. 1-9-BAL 9 (3:13) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to 34-R.Mendenhall [55-T.Suggs]. WATCH HIGHLIGHT
40. Timeout #2 by BLT at 03:04.
41. 2-9-BAL 9 (3:04) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to 86-H.Ward.
42. 3-9-BAL 9 (2:58) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 33-I.Redman for 9 yards, TOUCHDOWN. WATCH HIGHLIGHT
43. 6-S.Suisham extra point is GOOD, Center-60-G.Warren, Holder-9-D.Sepulveda.
44. PIT 13 BLT 10 Plays: 3 Possession: 0:22
45. Baltimore Ravens at 02:51
46. 6-S.Suisham kicks 65 yards from PIT 30 to BLT 5. 16-D.Reed to BLT 18 for 13 yards (88-E.Sanders).
47. 1-10-BAL 18 (2:50) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco sacked at BLT 10 for -8 yards (51-J.Farrior). WATCH HIGHLIGHT
48. 2-18-BAL 10 (2:17) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass deep left to 81-A.Boldin ran ob at BLT 26 for 16 yards.
49. 3-2-BAL 26 (2:10) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short middle to 84-T.Houshmandzadeh (24-I.Taylor).
50. 4-2-BAL 26 (2:05) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 81-A.Boldin to BLT 34 for 8 yards (22-W.Gay).
51. Two-Minute Warning
52. 1-10-BAL 34 (1:56) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass deep right to 81-A.Boldin to PIT 47 for 19 yards (25-R.Clark, 43-T.Polamalu).
53. 1-10-PIT 47 (1:28) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short right to 85-D.Mason. PENALTY on PIT-20-B.McFadden, Defensive Pass Interference, 8 yards, enforced at PIT 47 - No Play.
54. 1-10-PIT 39 (1:21) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete deep middle to 84-T.Houshmandzadeh (25-R.Clark) [92-J.Harrison].
55. Timeout #2 by PIT at 01:14.
56. 2-10-PIT 39 (1:14) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 27-R.Rice to PIT 34 for 5 yards (51-J.Farrior, 37-A.Madison).
57. 3-5-PIT 34 (:49) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 83-E.Dickson to PIT 31 for 3 yards (92-J.Harrison).
58. Timeout #3 by BLT at 00:37.
59. 4-2-PIT 31 (:37) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short left to 83-E.Dickson. WATCH HIGHLIGHT
60. Pittsburgh Steelers at 00:33
61. 1-10-PIT 31 (:33) 7-B.Roethlisberger kneels to PIT 30 for -1 yards.
62. END GAME

Rotorhead
12-10-2010, 02:34 PM
I told you I was done with this discussion, go back and read your first response and realize you have no idea what you were talking about . . . on second thought, lemme just show you how much of a moron you were:
"Using a fullback would work...IF we had a fullback on the roster. "
Frank Summers is a fullback, good or bad, he is a fullback - 1st incorrect statement.

"(Rewatch the saints game where we ran 3 times on the goal line if you need an example of the FB getting blown up or whiffing his block)" Speaks to my point, if we can't punch it in WITH a blocking FB against the Saints, why would we be able to punch it in WITHOUT that extra blocker against a vastly superior run defense? - Contradictory statement #1

"Also calling a draw on 3rd and forever is a great call when you consistently pick up 8 or 9 yards with moore." I covered this before, but since i am disecting the stupid post, Moore had one play, it was a pass. But I have to eat a little crow, as the call was in the second, and it was 3rd and 19 where we didnt get the 1st. but to redeem myself you state this right after "That's called field position, ever heard of it?" and my response is getting a first down trumps punting all day long.

"His pass plays that take so long to develop are big plays when they are successful, so would you rather do the dink and dunk offense like brady? We aren't built for that, sorry, maybe you should cheer for a different team." Since the hurry up and no huddle work, have worked and will work every time we use it, I would have to say yes we are built for that type off play. Memo, Tank, Heath, Ward are all possesion players. Wallace is a deep threat. Sanders and Brown are catch and run type of players. So lemme count for you, 6 players for short crossing routes, 1 for the deep ball (and honestly he isnt tall enough). On top of that we are absolutely NOT built for long plays that take 5+ seconds to develop since we have 3rd stringers on our OL. All that equals your argument failed there.

This takes the cake though: "It complements our defense better than the dink and dunk high scoring passing attacks like the pats. Our D is too old to play that much in a game. So we play possession football and try to sustain long drives to wear out the opponent and keep our D fresh longer into the game. "
Um, lemme see, 3 and out, 3 and out, 2 plays and a deep score . . . that seems to me that our defense is on the field for a significant amount of time rather than moving the ball up the field in a methodic time consuming way . . . possesion football means we need to posses the ball longer (whether by running it or passing, i dont care which way) so our defense can rest. Your last part is exactly OPPOSITE of what you said our defense needs.
My argument is not based on one play, so get over that, it was one example you decided to cherry pick, however i stated several examples. The situation deems we use LESS of the deep pass plays and more of the shorter stuff as our OL is very banged up. And finally, I have never, and will never say we need to play dink and dunk football. However, by your post count and join date it appears you are bandwagen fan anyway so I am done arguing with you. Before you try to tell someone else their opinion is wrong, make sure you proof read your response and take out all the contradictions, then remember it is my opinion BA sucks. You are welcome to yours and if you can present a GOOD argument I will look forward to responding.

finesward
12-10-2010, 03:57 PM
I told you I was done with this discussion, go back and read your first response and realize you have no idea what you were talking about . . . on second thought, lemme just show you how much of a moron you were:
"Using a fullback would work...IF we had a fullback on the roster. "
Frank Summers is a fullback, good or bad, he is a fullback - 1st incorrect statement.
Is he on the roster right now? the answer is NO....next

"(Rewatch the saints game where we ran 3 times on the goal line if you need an example of the FB getting blown up or whiffing his block)" Speaks to my point, if we can't punch it in WITH a blocking FB against the Saints, why would we be able to punch it in WITHOUT that extra blocker against a vastly superior run defense? - Contradictory statement #1
You want to use a FB when running the ball. We don't have a FB on the roster, we used a TE not a FB. So calling Johnson a FB because he is used like one doesn't mean he is going to block like a FB
"Also calling a draw on 3rd and forever is a great call when you consistently pick up 8 or 9 yards with moore." I covered this before, but since i am disecting the stupid post, Moore had one play, it was a pass. But I have to eat a little crow, as the call was in the second, and it was 3rd and 19 where we didnt get the 1st. but to redeem myself you state this right after "That's called field position, ever heard of it?" and my response is getting a first down trumps punting all day long.
Your point was attempting to make the first trumps punting and gaining field position. I disagree. In a ravens game field position can win or lose the game. I stand by that.
"His pass plays that take so long to develop are big plays when they are successful, so would you rather do the dink and dunk offense like brady? We aren't built for that, sorry, maybe you should cheer for a different team." Since the hurry up and no huddle work, have worked and will work every time we use it, I would have to say yes we are built for that type off play. Memo, Tank, Heath, Ward are all possesion players. Wallace is a deep threat. Sanders and Brown are catch and run type of players. So lemme count for you, 6 players for short crossing routes, 1 for the deep ball (and honestly he isnt tall enough). On top of that we are absolutely NOT built for long plays that take 5+ seconds to develop since we have 3rd stringers on our OL. All that equals your argument failed there.
Again, you are the one who failed here. Reread. Our defense is not built to support such an offense. We may have the personnel on offense, but because we can run the no huddle and score lots of points does not increase our chance at winning. I used last season as an example. ben had his best year throwing, yet the defense collapsed several times late in the game as a result. This year we are without ben 4 games, run the ball more, are much more balanced, and already have the same number of wins that we had last year at the end of the season. next....
This takes the cake though: "It complements our defense better than the dink and dunk high scoring passing attacks like the pats. Our D is too old to play that much in a game. So we play possession football and try to sustain long drives to wear out the opponent and keep our D fresh longer into the game. "
Um, lemme see, 3 and out, 3 and out, 2 plays and a deep score . . . that seems to me that our defense is on the field for a significant amount of time rather than moving the ball up the field in a methodic time consuming way . . . possesion football means we need to posses the ball longer (whether by running it or passing, i dont care which way) so our defense can rest. Your last part is exactly OPPOSITE of what you said our defense needs. sigh...3 and out when running the ball gives the defense much more time than three and out throwing. Chews game clock, slows the game down. We are getting better at 3rd down, minus the ravens game we did a great job converting against the bills. Go back and look at time of possession this year. We have been pretty consistent in controlling the clock, which is what benefits an aging defense. How is this not clear to you?? lol
My argument is not based on one play, so get over that, it was one example you decided to cherry pick, however i stated several examples. The situation deems we use LESS of the deep pass plays and more of the shorter stuff as our OL is very banged up. And finally, I have never, and will never say we need to play dink and dunk football. However, by your post count and join date it appears you are bandwagen fan anyway so I am done arguing with you. Before you try to tell someone else their opinion is wrong, make sure you proof read your response and take out all the contradictions, then remember it is my opinion BA sucks. You are welcome to yours and if you can present a GOOD argument I will look forward to responding.

So you cherry pick plays to support your opinion that BA sucks. Then your critical that I cherry pick the examples you used to support that opinion. Bandwagon fan, yaa ok. Your the one on the fire arians bandwagon. Have fun with that, cause he's gonna be here as long as we keep winning. :)

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-11-2010, 12:34 PM
So you cherry pick plays to support your opinion that BA sucks. Then your critical that I cherry pick the examples you used to support that opinion. Bandwagon fan, yaa ok. Your the one on the fire arians bandwagon. Have fun with that, cause he's gonna be here as long as we keep winning. :)

You never know if the guy is gonna retire or be pushed out after some of the lacklustre games like against the Ravens, Patriots, Bills etc. Considering the weapons, I really havent seen the offense progress as much as most thought it would when Ben returned.

I'd still rather have some guys like Norv Turner, Mike Heimerdinger, Jeff Jagodzinski as an OC, but who knows.