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View Full Version : Sometimes I dont understand Steelers fans!!!!!!!!!


coachspeak33
04-06-2006, 11:31 AM
Let me say first, I am a proud member of the Steeler Nation and recently began posting on this site!!! I have been a member of the Nation my entire life and I have lived on what many would consider the "front lines" as I grew up in the heart of Browns Town in northeast Ohio. That may not seem like a big deal to some of you, especially those who live under the protection of the steel city and countless steeler fans, but imagine hearing that dreaded Bernie, Bernie song (a spoof on Louie, Louie) on the radio everyday during the lean years for Steeler fans, otherwise known as the mid to late 80's.

It is both humorous and pathetic to hear the Browns fans around here talk about the decision making of the Browns front office. Right after they explain how the Browns are "headed in the right direction" with their "best off-season in years" I explain to them that they say that every single year and follow that by asking them how the kool-aid tastes. Then I quickly thank God that I am a passionate fan of a classy, intelligent, and consistent franchise like few others in the NFL.

That being said it frustrates me to no end to sometimes hear similar statements made by members of the Steeler Nation that slightly wreak of the black and gold kool-aid. With our losses to free-agency most Steeler fans have learned that to continue the chemistry and stability of our franchise we are going to lose free agents. Hell, every team loses free agents!! We also have come to grips with the fact that this franchise is never, I repeat NEVER going to throw big time money at a blue chip free agent. Instead, we will build the team from basically two places: the draft and from within the franchise. We may have the best coaching staff as a whole in the entire league. Simply put, our players tend to get better from year to year and I am here to tell you, we are the exception not the rule. There are more organizations in this league like the Browns, Lions, and Cardinals than the Steelers.

So here we are, World Champions enjoying the off-season, and we lost 2 defensive starters(Kimo and Hope), a starter on offense at our thinnest position for the second season in a row (El), plus we still have depth issues at O-line and LB. As earlier stated, I understand that we arent going to fill holes in a big way through free agency, and thats fine, so that leaves us with the draft to fill holes.

We go into this years draft with 10, count em, 10 picks!! With most of our starting lineup set on both sides of the ball and many quality backups (McFadden/Townsend, Colclough, Tuman, Batch, Okobi, Harrison, Hoke, Haynes) there simply are not many available roster spots on this club. The ability and futures of some of these players can be questioned for sure, but what can not be questioned is that 10 drafted rookies will not make this team....PERIOD!!!

So why are so many Steelers fans okay with the Steelers continuing to be arguably the most inactive franchise in the NFL on draft day. As you read this, think to yourself how many times in recent years the Steelers actually made something happen to go get the guy they feel that they can get better with. I can only think of two instances in the last 15 years (trading up to get Polamalu and trading two early/middle picks for Bettis). Now its one thing if the guy that can make you better is going to be there when you turn comes to pick. Heath Miller is a great example, we knew that he would be there at the end of Round 1 last year and do you really think that if he was rumored to go higher, that the Steelers would have made a move up in the draft to get him??? I think not.

We need to make a move in the draft to get value for those picks even if the players selected with those picks dont wear black and gold. We should go so far as overpay for moving up because we areessentially playing with house money. We have three fourth round selections this year. THREE!!! We also have two in round 5. these extra picks are compensatory picks for our free agent losses a year ago and cannot be traded but our original seven draft choices are ours to trade.

Look at last years draft:
- 4th rounder Fred Gibson didnt even make it outta Latrobe's training facility
- 7th rounder Noah Herron lasted a bit longer but barely
- 6th rounder Kemoeautu did not dress 90% of the season (i like him a lot though)
- 5th rounder Rian Wallace ended up playing behind undrafted rookie Andre Frazier
- 7th rounder Shaun Nua was resigned this offseason but he remains a project at best

5 of our 8 draft choices ended up being extrememly replaceable. So if we arent going to try and add dynamic talents to this team through free agency then go get em in the draft. That is hard to do when you draft near the end each round every year... but if you have plenty of picks to spare then package some of them and move up and get a guy who can help this team reach the Super Bowl again.

I feel that down the road we will look back at this draft and see it as a turning point for our beloved Steelers, either it reloads us or it adds 5 to 7 more young guys who will end up behind Steeler retreads like Logan, Mays, Rasby, Stuvaints, Brooks, and others who will join the club right before training camp simply because Cowher and company feel more comfortable with them. Nothing to do with talent, just comfort.

I love the Steelers. I love Cowher. But I hate when we agree with the attitude of the front office that trading picks leading up to or during the draft has any negative impact on our goal of stability.

Last thing, I promise. Think about this... Miami got a NFL MVP runner up just a 2 seasons ago, who is still in his prime for a 2nd and 4th round pick!!!! We have picks that we can afford to throw away for goodness sakes (we threw away 3 to 5 of them last year)..... So let me hear it, why arent more of my fellow steeler fans screaming for the Steelers to trade meaningless picks ???????

JoeyPorter#55
04-06-2006, 11:36 AM
Steelers fans are the best! They lead the way...all others follow!

Suitanim
04-06-2006, 11:47 AM
If we rebuild ONLY through the draft, then why should we give picks away? Why would we ever overpay? If we are so bad at playing "the game", how did we end up 15-1 in 2004, and win the Super Bowl in 2005?

The truth of the matter is, the team also rebuilds by acquiring value free agent pick-ups who fit the system, and flourish here. Think Hartings and Farrior (discussed in another thread) for starters.

83-Steelers-43
04-06-2006, 11:49 AM
For me, it's because we recently won a Super Bowl and we are contenders almost every year. For me, it's not "drinking the kool-aid", it's called having faith in those in charge. Having faith in the guys who get paid to make the FO decisions. We pick up the FA's that we feel fit our sytem.

Personally, I shake my head at those who second guess team decisions as If they are the ones running the FO of a team that recently won a Super Bowl and who have been contenders in this league alot longer than many other teams. I'm not denying this organization has made mistakes, much like every other team in the NFL, but I will let this organization's record speak for me.

coachspeak33
04-06-2006, 12:03 PM
See, there they go. Saying I am not a good fan cause I question drafting 10 players for anywhere from 4 to 6 or 7 spots... thats b.s. Just because you win a Super Bowl doesnt mean every decision made is not aloud to be questioned.... look at some of our draft history starting with last year.... Fred Gibson in round four is a flat out terrible pick... in round 4!!!! Tai Essex in round 3... jury is still out but I doubt many of you look at him as a future starting left or right tackle... so what did that pick get you???? Not much. It is simple math people we cant keep 10 draft picks .... so lets trade up to increase the chance that they few guys we do get are guys with impact potential & lets avoid wasting picks

GO STEELERS

83-Steelers-43
04-06-2006, 12:06 PM
Ummm....by no means do I consider you a bad fan and ever more important, I never stated you were a bad fan. I also never stated you were not permitted to question decisions from the people that recently won a Super Bowl and who make this team a contender almost every year. I don't agree with you, but that doesn't make you a bad fan in my book.

I don't think my comments were any worse than telling fellow fans they are drinking the kool-aid if they agree with the way this team is managed. I simply stated I shake my head at those who feel they know more and could do a better job than those in charge of a team that has one of the most successful franchises in NFL history.

coachspeak33
04-06-2006, 12:15 PM
I realize that they are doing the job that I could never imagine doing however.... I can count to 10 and I know that 6 and 7 comes before that number.... therefore we are drafting players, consequently wasting picks, when we will only cut them and watch another team snatch em up for nothing. I am just saying we should get value for all of the picks we have... that is all


YOI & DOUBLE YOI

Lyn
04-06-2006, 12:20 PM
See, there they go. Saying I am not a good fan cause I question drafting 10 players for anywhere from 4 to 6 or 7 spots... thats b.s. Just because you win a Super Bowl doesnt mean every decision made is not aloud to be questioned.... look at some of our draft history starting with last year.... Fred Gibson in round four is a flat out terrible pick... in round 4!!!! Tai Essex in round 3... jury is still out but I doubt many of you look at him as a future starting left or right tackle... so what did that pick get you???? Not much. It is simple math people we cant keep 10 draft picks .... so lets trade up to increase the chance that they few guys we do get are guys with impact potential & lets avoid wasting picks

GO STEELERS


I do not think anyone here has called you a "bad Steeler fan" since there are no "bad Steeler fans" I think the point they made is that the majoity of Steeler fans have put their faith in the Front Office as the FO has a proven track record. For all you say we do that is wrong, let me ask you this, "Why do the Steelers have 5 Superbowl championship trophys?" Do you think that the FO just may have done something right all these years? Of course there have been mistakes made, but the FO learns from their mistakes and they do not and will not EVER overpay a player. I think that is something that every Steeler fan realizes.......I mean why should they pay a big name to produce when the Steelers have a bunch of nobodies who play well together..........well enough to earn 5 Lombardi trophies.

coachspeak33
04-06-2006, 12:20 PM
Hey 83-Steelers-43,
Take a look at the thread listing Steeler draft... isnt it obvious when you draft Charles Johnson in the first round that your drafting based on need, not because of that individual players talents.... or last year with Essex in round 3... or Troy Edwards in round 1... After our great Super Bowl win and 3 extra picks, we enter this draft in a position of strength, house money, if you will, lets use it and move up to take less of a chance on a more talented player instead takiing a bunch of long-shots on lesser talented players.

coachspeak33
04-06-2006, 12:36 PM
There are times when a team needs to accumulate picks (significant lack of depth/talent)
And
There are times when a team needs to add a dynamic player at a specific position
- We did that with Polamalu.... that worked out pretty well for us hasnt it???
- What happens if we dont trade up and get an average player late in round 1.... I dont know but I couldnt imagine the Steelers winning a Super Bowl without Polamalu. Can You?
- And by the way we won five world titles because we drafted dynamic players at crucial times... the seventies is a great example.... but our run the last two years is one too
- Miller, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Hampton... these are dynamic players who make everyone else around them better
We have the means this draft to trade up and better our chances of getting another one!!!

Midnightwriter1
04-06-2006, 12:39 PM
First off, i am a huge Steelers fan and i for the most part I love all Steelers fan just because they love th black and gold as much as i do. I dont agree with that late round picks are wasted picks.. Over the years we have had some major contributors to our team to late round picks, even if they were notPro Bowl players or starters such as ..

Perry, Bell, Flowers, Emmons, Roye, FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU, Townsend, Haggans, K Brown, Okobi, Bailey, Foote, Mays, haynes, Keisel, Nua, Kemoeatu, Wallace, St Pierre. A Smith, J Tueman,

All those may not be heavy contributors, but they have had or possibly could have impact in future and some of course, took off but when they took off, they took off because we just didnt have room for them and went to a diff team.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and i for one never knew that, Troy Edwards, A.Jackson, Burris, Stephens, Conley, Sheilds, Farris would not work out when first drafted. In the past, our first round picks have not always worked out no matter where drafted them... Since Cowher has had more influence and him and Colbert have been together, our drafts have worked out pretty well, but for awhile it seemed out best draft picks later.

I would not be opposed to the Steelers moving up at all, i just have no idea where they would and what they would be able to get. Could specualte to trade a 4th and a 5th to move up in 3rd or something... but with alot of our picks in later rounds... i dont know just how far we couold move up. There are plenty of draft charts out there that will tell who how many points each pick is worth ... I will throw one in for you after this post so you can see.

As pointed out in post earlier, i trust in what Cowher and Colbert and our F/A will do. We have managed to keep our key players compared to when we got raped before and we have stayed under the cap, and most importantly ... we have been winning and have one of the best winning percentages in the league over the past 5 years. Again, the hindsight is always 20/20 and looking back we could have moved up ... but for as many players that look good in the college game and dont do squat in the NFL... we have done pretty well as of late.

83-Steelers-43
04-06-2006, 12:41 PM
I do not think anyone here has called you a "bad Steeler fan" since there are no "bad Steeler fans" I think the point they made is that the majoity of Steeler fans have put their faith in the Front Office as the FO has a proven track record. For all you say we do that is wrong, let me ask you this, "Why do the Steelers have 5 Superbowl championship trophys?" Do you think that the FO just may have done something right all these years? Of course there have been mistakes made, but the FO learns from their mistakes and they do not and will not EVER overpay a player. I think that is something that every Steeler fan realizes.......I mean why should they pay a big name to produce when the Steelers have a bunch of nobodies who play well together..........well enough to earn 5 Lombardi trophies.

Thank You Lyn. Much appreciated.

Midnightwriter1
04-06-2006, 12:42 PM
Here is link to draft value chart ....


http://www.theredzone.org/2005/draft/draftvaluechart.asp

coachspeak33
04-06-2006, 12:55 PM
couldnt agree with you more midnightwriter...

I really trust this Steelers FO when it comes to evaluating talent.... Colbert's record speaks for itself.... And you put more meat behind my point by bringing up all the busts of the past... it is a crapshoot on draft day every year.... the only way you increase your chances of getting a good player is identifying the guy you want and getting him just like they did with Troy.

There is no way the intelligent people within the Steelers front office identified Troy Edwards or Charles Johnson or Kris Farris or Jamaine Stephens and said "yep, thats our guy.... he is gonna make us better!!!".... Instead we got stuck with them through selection based on need alone...

Bad picks happen... for every team... but there is no excuse to walk out of this years draft without a couple of guys with impact potential... not with all the picks we have to play with

coachspeak33
04-06-2006, 01:44 PM
Thanks for the link midnightwriter

Avoid Lloyd
04-06-2006, 01:52 PM
I agree that 10 rookies won't make this team.

However, I also don't see the point in trading up if there isn't someone there that we're really enamored with. Also, yes we have a lot of picks, but most of them are from the 3rd round and back, which don't amount to a whole lot of points to climb the charts with. We aren't going to jump from 32 to 15.

If someone that the Steelers want drops into the mid to late 20's then I definitely see a trade occurring. But like I said, trading up just to do it is just as folly as staying with 10 picks.

I believe a move being made in the second round is more likely, but who knows. It all depends on who catches the FO's eye.

pucho58
04-06-2006, 02:02 PM
You got to have faith in the FO. We don't know what the Steelers are going to do with their draft picks. They might keep them or trade them.

Tim
04-06-2006, 02:51 PM
Let's see... the Steelers are widely considered one of the best organizations on draft day. There is zero reason to be "active" when doing what we do has worked wonders over the last bunch of seasons.

Did you not hear that Kevin Colbert had 7, count 'em, SEVEN write in votes for NFL exec. of the year. That's unheard of.

I never understand why some fans feel the need to panic every draft day.

Haiku_Dirtt
04-06-2006, 03:01 PM
See, there they go. Saying I am not a good fan cause I question drafting 10 players for anywhere from 4 to 6 or 7 spots... thats b.s. Just because you win a Super Bowl doesnt mean every decision made is not aloud to be questioned.... look at some of our draft history starting with last year.... Fred Gibson in round four is a flat out terrible pick... in round 4!!!! Tai Essex in round 3... jury is still out but I doubt many of you look at him as a future starting left or right tackle... so what did that pick get you???? Not much. It is simple math people we cant keep 10 draft picks .... so lets trade up to increase the chance that they few guys we do get are guys with impact potential & lets avoid wasting picks

GO STEELERS

I have mentioned a number of times that we should TRY to package picks. First. There has to be a willing team to make a deal. Second. That team should be outside of our division and preferably outside the conference. So the list of potential trade partners becomes fairly limited since we pick last. (I think Arizona might be a team looking for extra picks this year)

If your contention is that players at this level are not worth drafting, then why would other teams want that junk either.

If we get two bonafide starters via the draft each year (on average) then we are doing very well.

For the record....

7th round: Brett Kiesel (again...7th round :sofunny: )
4th round: Larry Foote
5th round: Verron Hayes
5th round: Clark Haggans
4th round: Aaron Smith
4th round: Deshea Townsend
5th round: Jerame Tuman
5th round: Chukky Okobi
6th round: Chris Kemoeatu (out on a limb here but I think he'll be a contributor)

That is an impressive late round group.

TasmanianTroy271
04-06-2006, 03:45 PM
Well, there are a bunch of reasons why we arent trading any of our picks. If we were to trade out 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th for a higher pick in the 2nd, according to a draft value chart, we'd only be able to move up to #57. With us being the Superbowl champs, all of our picks are bassically one round lower. In essence, our first rounder is the equivalent to a high second rounder, etc. Teams don't want alot of picks like that.

Another reason is because we have a great record in the later rounds. Yes, Noah Herron didn't stick around for a long time, but he did pretty decent with Green Bay, and they're bringing him back next year. Plus, you can't expect all of our rookies to contribute immediately. Another thing is Rian Wallace, he's an ILB, he's not behind Frazier, He's behind Kriewaldt, which he should be. When Farrior went down halfway through the season, it would have been suicide to put a 5th round rookie in to replace him. Give the draft a few years before you judge the talent we got in it.

So yea, not all of our picks are going to make the roster, but, knowing the steelers, do you really think they're gonna let anyone worthwhile get away? how many times has that happenend? The steelers will draft the players they want to, and probably a bunch of Rookie Free Agents, and when we don't sign back our fourth rounder and we do sign a RFA, don't judge too quickly, because the Steelers are normally pretty good at grading these things. Think, we signed Nate Washington instead of Gibson, and Washington ended up making a great catch, and breaking up a near interception against the Broncos. Do we know if Gibson could have done that? Not for sure, but I think the Steeler made the right choice, and I have faith they'll make the right choices this year too.

3 to be 4
04-06-2006, 04:58 PM
No need to panic about the Steelers and drafting. If the draft built what they have, then they have proven they will be able to handle this situation. Another option a championship team with extra picks has is to trade out to keep the run going. On draft day, if you know another team is coveting a player you are in a position to grab with your 3rd round selection, you trade them your pick for a second rounder in 2007. This is what the Patriots did in 2003 when they traded their pick at #19 to the Ravens (Boller) for a second rounder (Eugene Wilson) and a 1st round pick the following year (Vince Wilfork). Later that draft they traded a 3rd round pick to Miami for a second round pick the following year. So the next year they had an extra pick in the 2nd round and traded it for Corey Dillon. The Steelers can use their extra picks to assess draft value as it is developing, target players they want, move up to get them, or use other teams desires to trade out to have higher picks in future years to remain great for years. It is no accident the Patriots and Steelers have been so successful and IMHO will continue to be so for the rest of the decade.

Mr. Clean
04-06-2006, 05:06 PM
A draft cannot be accurately judged for at least a couple of years. The Steelers have moved up in the draft - that's how they got Troy.


It depends on who is abailable, what the team's needs are, and even if a deal can be worked out.

The Steelers made a draft day deal in 1990 (Donahoe era) to draft Eric Green. They traded picks with the Cowboys who drafted Emmitt Smith. Sometimes it's better not to trade.

Steel Pit
04-07-2006, 03:30 AM
I'll start by saying that this is a well written thread by coachspeak33. I know that some of you have somewhat criticized him for questioning the Steelers front office but I respect his right to question some of the decisions of past. After all, the Steelers front office isn't right all of the time. I'm sure that we've all questioned a move or two but overall we're thrilled with our organization from top to bottom.

After reading the thread I believe that coachspeak33 answered his own question. He refers to a majority of our draft picks as being "meaningless". I agree, but the Steelers aren't the only NFL team who's in tune with the fact that late round draft picks are "typically" meaningless thus explaining why the Steelers will not be able to bundle up an assortment of draft picks and trade them for anything of significance.

I refer to 5th through 7th round draft picks as "Rudy picks". During these rounds most NFL teams are simply drafting athletic and warm bodies to be used as live bait during training camp. I know, I know, every now and then a late round draft choice surpasses all expectations, makes the final roster and contributes to the team.

During the Tom Donahoe tenure, the Steelers missed on many 1st round draft selections but found gems in the later rounds. After the Donahoe departure the Steelers are hitting BIG in the early rounds and finding duds in the later rounds. The latter is far more acceptable by me and I'm sure that we all can agree on that. After all, shopping for a gem with our late round "meaningless" picks and coming up empty is an easier pill to swallow than coming up empty with our very-valuable 1st round selection.

BlacknGold Bleeder
04-07-2006, 08:14 AM
You can't count on any pick being a sure thing, maybe the first 5. After that it is a crapshoot!! IMO the Steelers have done well in the draft with the late round selections mentioned before hand. So maybe it is better to have more picks because you never know what round you will get a keeper in. I for one will gladly drink the BlacknGold Iron City Koolaid because it is hard to argue with our team's success!! :cheers:

coachspeak33
04-07-2006, 08:59 AM
I wasnt knockin Steelers football... nor was I saying that the players taken in late rounds were meaningless... I was simply pointing out that they all cant/wont make this team... hence some of the picks no matter who we take are meaningless because they wont wear the black and gold (not enough roster spots)... I am not trying to re-invent the wheel ... it happens every year.

I know its only one pick but how did drafting Fred Gibson, in the fourth round, only to cut him help this team?

And if you package a few picks like the one we've spent on:
Nathan Adibi
Alonzo Jackson
Mathias Nkwenti
Danny Farmer to move up as many spots as you can to get the guy you want (like they did with Troy)

I like 95% percent of our roster.... ummm we just won the Super Bowl... No need in my opinion to make wholesale changes (this includes adding 10 rookies to the roster... just think it would benefit this club to focus their efforts on filling the very few need spots we have with the highest value possible.

some posters on here think we should take as many late rounders to increase our chances of getting lucky with one of them... that is another way to go... No harm no foul.

"I am not paid for my disposition"
-Gregg Lloyd

Lyn
04-07-2006, 12:22 PM
I believe most all Steeler fans welcome questioning, at the same time I believe most all Steeler fans are very happy with the results the FO has produced.

Petesburgh66
04-07-2006, 12:59 PM
From the 2005 53 man roster, the Steelers don't have

Jerome Bettis
Chris Hope
Mike Logan
Tommy Maddox
Sean Morey
Antwaan Randle El
Russell Stuvaints
Kimo von Oelhoffen
Willie Williams

They added

Rodney Bailey
Ryan Clark

Which means at least 7 spots up for grabs and 10 picks (and who knows about which guys from the practice squad will be around). And considering the Steelers don't have any major free agents to worry about next year, they will have at least 17 draft picks. I think the Steelers will package up some draft picks to move up in the draft if they see the player(s) they really want.

coachspeak33
04-07-2006, 01:22 PM
It would make sense if they did that Petesburgh

Midnightwriter1
04-07-2006, 02:27 PM
Logan and Stuvaints will be back

j-dawg
04-07-2006, 06:27 PM
"It is both humorous and pathetic to hear the Browns fans around here talk about the decision making of the Browns front office. Right after they explain how the Browns are "headed in the right direction" with their "best off-season in years" I explain to them that they say that every single year and follow that by asking them how the kool-aid tastes. Then I quickly thank God that I am a passionate fan of a classy, intelligent, and consistent franchise like few others in the NFL."

come on dude... phil savage and romeo crennel have shown great ability and deserve a little more respect. fans will always maintain a positive attitude towards their team... even intelligent fans are ALLOWED to feel this way when they know things aren't great. oh... by the way, "Bernie Bernie" by the bleacher bums, was awesome!!

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e250/veryprofane/KOsarCle.jpg
"Takes the snap, drops back, looks down the field..


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e250/veryprofane/brennan.jpg
Brennan, breaks open, the victories sealed.."

Midnightwriter1
04-07-2006, 07:32 PM
Il ike hwat the Brown stains have done even though i dont like thme any. Have to give a team and franchise credit where it is do. NO i am not saying the Browns are going to make the playoffs or that they are all the sudden going to be SuperBowl contenders, but they had some money to spend and they went out and got some guys to help them win some games and i think they should be applauded for doing so instead of just laying dead. The guys they have brought in have won and should bring that element to a team and franchise that desperately needs it. I thin kBrowns fans should be pretty happy about it, even though they will still get their butts kicked by the STEELERS =) ha

j-dawg
04-07-2006, 08:03 PM
thanks midnight... i agree, we're going to have a tough fight against the aluminum cans, but i think we're going to be able to take it to the bungholes and ratbirds....

Midnightwriter1
04-07-2006, 08:07 PM
Plain and Simple.. Your brownies will be a better team and kinda like the Bengals did a few years ago bringing in Lewis, Crennel wil make the team better each year and very competitive. that is why it is very important that the Steelers dont relax any.

j-dawg
04-07-2006, 08:54 PM
you've got nothing to worry about... you've got cowher.... the greatest coach in the NFL... i've got nothing but respect for him...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e250/veryprofane/cowher.jpg

cowher wore the orange pants.... hehehe...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e250/veryprofane/a_cowher_i-725529.jpg

Suitanim
04-07-2006, 08:58 PM
Wow...that pic brings back some memories...BOTH Pruitt's? Look at how tiny Sipe is compared to todays's QB's. Is #25 Chucky White, Heisman winning "Next Jim Brown"?

83 Reggie Rucker?

Sam Rutigliano (sp?) future Liberty College Coach?

#65 Doug Dieken(sp?)?

77 is DEFINITELY Lyle Alzado(sp?)

j-dawg
04-07-2006, 09:01 PM
don't know for sure... i was four when the cardiac kids were balling... but i believe you're correct in all names mentioned...

Suitanim
04-07-2006, 09:04 PM
I work with Bob Golic, ex DL for the Browns, which helps refresh my recollection on some of this stuff. Although I'm a lifelong Steelers fan, I've been inundated with Browns propaganda since I was about 4 years old...

j-dawg
04-07-2006, 09:09 PM
yeah.. golic used to live out here in los angeles... he was on a sports radio show... he moved back to cleveland last year to write for the browns....

tony hipchest
04-07-2006, 09:09 PM
I work with Bob Golic, ex DL for the Browns, which helps refresh my recollection on some of this stuff. Although I'm a lifelong Steelers fan, I've been inundated with Browns propaganda since I was about 4 years old...brother of mike golic? cool. i still miss m. golic and b. cox on espns "nfl live".

golic and cox was always good for a laugh.

Midnightwriter1
04-07-2006, 09:16 PM
Mike is funny as hell !!

Suitanim
04-07-2006, 09:32 PM
yeah.. golic used to live out here in los angeles... he was on a sports radio show... he moved back to cleveland last year to write for the browns....

He does some stuff for the Browns, but that's not why he moved back.

BCEDGE
04-07-2006, 11:23 PM
don't know for sure... i was four when the cardiac kids were balling... but i believe you're correct in all names mentioned...

What year is that pic from?

j-dawg
04-08-2006, 03:08 AM
it's the 1980 browns team pic...

clevestinks
04-09-2006, 10:14 AM
Higher picks cost more money!

This thread started with statements about haw the Steelers are almost inactive on draft day!
Yet we won a Super Bowl! And we are contenders year after year. Alot of the teams that make a ton of moves and pick up high $ free agents, go backwards.

The Steelers have a system, offense and defense works with the right players in our system. Not the best players in the draft.

Everyone wants to see the best player in draft in Black and Gold. But as a fellow NE Ohio resident. You should appreciate the fact the high picks dont always work, ala cleveland browns, the draft top five every year, for what? They have no system to fit into.

j-dawg
04-09-2006, 11:16 AM
Higher picks cost more money!

This thread started with statements about haw the Steelers are almost inactive on draft day!
Yet we won a Super Bowl! And we are contenders year after year. Alot of the teams that make a ton of moves and pick up high $ free agents, go backwards.

The Steelers have a system, offense and defense works with the right players in our system. Not the best players in the draft.

Everyone wants to see the best player in draft in Black and Gold. But as a fellow NE Ohio resident. You should appreciate the fact the high picks dont always work, ala cleveland browns, the draft top five every year, for what? They have no system to fit into.


they HAD no system to fit into....

things have changed.

83-Steelers-43
04-09-2006, 11:18 AM
You should appreciate the fact the high picks dont always work, ala cleveland browns.

Or they end up being complete idiots.

Example: "I'M A $%&@#&% SOLDIER!!!" :rolleyes: :dang:

coachspeak33
04-10-2006, 10:08 AM
Hey j-dawg,
The Steelers have a very positive track record when selecting a bit earlier in round 1... obviously we dont draft early in round 1 as often as those Cleveland Clowns, but when they get a shot with a early/middle round 1 pick they rarely miss...

they get in trouble when they sit tight and take:
the fifth DB in round 1 (D. Figures)
the final WR of round 1 (T. Edwards)
the sixth OT in round 1 (J. Stephens)

rowedf
04-10-2006, 02:36 PM
I don't agree with the urgent need to move up in round one. I just don't think its worth it. I mean, if we packaged up a couple picks 3,4, maybe 5 or 6 round picks ....we would still only be able to move up what ....7-8 spots? ...that just isn't worth it to me. I would rather them draft 10 rookies and choose from them who makes the team, unless there is someone that is a lock as a starter (which that really is impossible ...ex: Ryan Leaf) ....Having three fourth round picks is AWESOME, you can find a lot of talent in that round. I would rather take my chance with getting at least one of those 4th rounders to develop into a starter than moving up a handful of spots and taking a chance on 26,27th pick.

Midnightwriter1
04-10-2006, 04:44 PM
i thinkwill be a great draft no mater what we do, in large part since we dont have any immediate needs anywhere. I look forward to it very much !!

BlitzburghRockCity
04-10-2006, 10:55 PM
The Steelers have a system, offense and defense works with the right players in our system. Not the best players in the draft.

Absolutely :iagree: We build thru the draft and the players we choose arent always a consensus best player on the board but they with us...I'll take our draft track record anyday and put it up against anyone else's.

DiggetyDank
04-11-2006, 02:09 AM
Going back to what Coachspeak said - I'm baffled that you seem to think it's so urgent that we move a couple spots up or pull a Snyder in free agency. While there's players that we'd all like to see play for the Steelers, you can't dispute that the Steelers Organization's strategy works (Do I really need to say why?). As far as our drafting goes, are you kidding me? Ruthlessberger, Polamalu, Miller, Randle El, etc - we'll get who we want this year and THEY WILL kick ass.

Also, I think we need to remember that we've kept both of our coordinators, which is huge - two coordinators that again, just won a Super Bowl and baffled opponents with their schemes all season long.

Relax.

Midnightwriter1
04-11-2006, 02:33 AM
Coach qwas just referring to how we moved up to get Troy and since we have extra draft picks why not trade some of the late rounders to move up and get someone like that gain. Which is not a bad idea since we do have alot of draft picks, but as i have said.. I dont see where we have an immediate need unless it is at LB in case they dont see a way we can keep Porter and haggens, Farrior, Foote together. I think we will take a LB in first and if there is a player they really want, they may do that. I just have no idea if that is direction they will go or not. I dont see a need to move up to get a WR or RB, so that is only thing i can see maybe if we really want Carpenter or Lawson and they are there in later part of first and a chance that another team may want them as well. Will be interesting and i am as excited as hell for the 29th to hurry up and get here !!!!!! WWOOHHOOOOOOOOOOOO

MasterOfPuppets
04-11-2006, 03:42 AM
coach seems to think ,earlier pick = more talent.....but we all know thats not always the case. here's an example.....

Ward was selected 92nd overall in the 1998 draft. He was the last player taken on Day One of the draft. Kevin Dyson was the first receiver drafted that year; Randy Moss was second.

We know how Moss turned out. Dyson's career has been sabotaged by injuries; his brother Andre may cover Ward in Super Bowl XL. Other receivers drafted before Ward include Marcus Nash (also a first-round pick), Jerome Pathon, Jacquez Green, Patrick Johnson, Mikhael Ricks, Brian Alford, and E.G. Green.

Wide receiver Larry Shannon was drafted by the Dolphins 10 spots before Ward in the 1998 draft. Shannon averaged 21.4 yards per catch and scored nine touchdowns for East Carolina in 1996 before hurting his ankle in 1997. He never caught a pass in the NFL. Az Hakim was selected four spots after Ward.

JoeyPorter#55
04-11-2006, 10:53 AM
Who doesn't understand Pittsburgh Steelers fans??? In case anyone gets any ideas, they better know they are talking about the fans of the WORLD CHAMPIONS!!!!!

If anything, the Cleveland Browns have the WORST fans I have ever seen! From them pelting Dwayne Rudd for his famous mother:bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: in' helmet toss to Timothy Scott Couch getting CHEERED by Browns fans when he got hurt four years ago, they are the WORST!

I'm going to go out on a limb here: I'll take my high school alma mater's fans over the Browns fans any freakin' day of the freakin' week! That is my decision and I would do it again.

STEELERS FANS ARE THE BEST!!!!! ALL OTHERS ARE IN THE REARVIEW MIRROR!!!!!

clevestinks
04-11-2006, 11:21 AM
Who doesn't understand Pittsburgh Steelers fans??? In case anyone gets any ideas, they better know they are talking about the fans of the WORLD CHAMPIONS!!!!!

If anything, the Cleveland Browns have the WORST fans I have ever seen! From them pelting Dwayne Rudd for his famous mother:bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: in' helmet toss to Timothy Scott Couch getting CHEERED by Browns fans when he got hurt four years ago, they are the WORST!

I'm going to go out on a limb here: I'll take my high school alma mater's fans over the Browns fans any freakin' day of the freakin' week! That is my decision and I would do it again.

STEELERS FANS ARE THE BEST!!!!! ALL OTHERS ARE IN THE REARVIEW MIRROR!!!!!
cleveland the worst fans???
Why because they thro beer bottles annually at atleast one game? I agree they are the worst. Although like all fans, a few bad apples ruin it for everyone! The are just more bad apples there then most cities. I know JDawg wont like this, but living hereI see them everyday

j-dawg
04-11-2006, 11:24 AM
cleveland the worst fans???
Why because they thro beer bottles annually at atleast one game? I agree they are the worst. Although like all fans, a few bad apples ruin it for everyone! The are just more bad apples there then most cities. I know JDawg wont like this, but living hereI see them everyday

have you gone to a raiders game?

i did.

it's downright scary..

coachspeak33
04-11-2006, 11:37 AM
Many of you should read my original post on this thread.... I am a Steelers fan... lifelong... I hate the Browns and I live twenty minutes from Cleve unfortunately.... I dont like spending on FA's.... I dont think that when all teams draft early they automatically get good players... I am saying the Steelers rarely miss on guys selected at least near the middle of round 1... I started the thread to point out that now is not the time to rest on your laurels and spend all our time looking at our reflection in the Lombardi Trophy...

It is beyond me how anybody could read my first post and think I want to go out and get FA's.... that could not be more wrong...

Thanks for the assistance midnight writer... You might be right about the LB pick... I addressed that issue a bit the draft thread...

Be interested in your answer to this question.....
What is scarier....
Losing Hines or Wilson- Thus being forced to play Morgan, Washington, Baker, or Young
as our #2 and 3 receivers???
OR
Losing a LB - And being forced to play Harrison, Frazier, Kriewaldt, or Wallace???

clevestinks
04-11-2006, 11:42 AM
have you gone to a raiders game?

i did.

it's downright scary..
No I havent , but I can imagine. Actually I will be in LA for the first time in June, for two weeks.

The browns fans have been documented as being near the bottom though. Part of the problem is the dawg pound, it was always the party area, no problem with that, then they had a reputation and evetone tries to carry on that rowdy rep, and they do get a little carried away.
I live 40 mile east of cleveland, originally from the Burgh. I have frindes here that our orange and brown die hards, I ve been told many times that they go to Pittsburgh for the games and have a blast, they get ball busted but get treated pretty good. You cant say the same when I go to cleveland. Its bad, but I love it anyway

j-dawg
04-12-2006, 11:31 AM
i have charger friends out here who said i was crazy to go to oakland to watch the game. one friend told me about a chargers fan who got stabbed there. i guess it all depends on where you sit and the people around you. i sat on the visitors side with the browns backers... strength in numbers hehehe... this year i'm going to san d with my charger friends and siting on the home side. i'm sure i'll get ridiculed, but if you're in their home, you should expect nothing less. it sucks when you get the drunkards who wanna throw down. all my browns friends are always cool with the opponents fans. when it comes down to it, we're football fans, not soccer fans!!

i used to work at the jake back in cleveland and i remember this one time a group of drunk indians fans were swearing at this couple wearing their mariners jackets. a bunch of people, including myself, walked up to them and apologized for their actions. the guy said "there's always a few bad apples." you have to admit, there's some bad apples in the 'burgh too....

83-Steelers-43
04-12-2006, 11:45 AM
you have to admit, there's some bad apples in the 'burgh too....

No doubt. There is the occasional heckler, which should be expected at every stadium in the NFL, specially if your wearing a Browns, Ravens or Bengals jersey. But I don't recall stabbings, bottle throwing, battery throwing, shootings or beat downs which do and have occured in many other stadiums in the NFL.

clevestinks
04-12-2006, 12:06 PM
i have charger friends out here who said i was crazy to go to oakland to watch the game. one friend told me about a chargers fan who got stabbed there. i guess it all depends on where you sit and the people around you. i sat on the visitors side with the browns backers... strength in numbers hehehe... this year i'm going to san d with my charger friends and siting on the home side. i'm sure i'll get ridiculed, but if you're in their home, you should expect nothing less. it sucks when you get the drunkards who wanna throw down. all my browns friends are always cool with the opponents fans. when it comes down to it, we're football fans, not soccer fans!!

i used to work at the jake back in cleveland and i remember this one time a group of drunk indians fans were swearing at this couple wearing their mariners jackets. a bunch of people, including myself, walked up to them and apologized for their actions. the guy said "there's always a few bad apples." you have to admit, there's some bad apples in the 'burgh too....
A few yes, of course, but in cleveland the majority at times, takes over, I think they are so tired of losing that they just get off on abusing more than winning. Of course not everyone. And the crowds are so much different nowadays, to many yuppies. As far as Indians fans abusing the Mariners, baseball smack is just lame anyway.

Indy_Steelers
04-12-2006, 01:31 PM
i just feel that wew have let go better draft day talent than most teams will pick. they will be picking up our scraps.

Ohio Steeler
04-12-2006, 03:02 PM
A few yes, of course, but in cleveland the majority at times, takes over, I think they are so tired of losing that they just get off on abusing more than winning. Of course not everyone. And the crowds are so much different nowadays, to many yuppies. As far as Indians fans abusing the Mariners, baseball smack is just lame anyway.


how is baseball smack lame, I myself just love watching Yanks fans and BoSox fans go at it, those teams HATE each other and it is so bad they throw just about anything at each other

j-dawg
04-12-2006, 05:05 PM
Of course not everyone. And the crowds are so much different nowadays, to many yuppies.

tell me about it!! you know that when they built the new cleveland browns stadium they weren't going to have hot water in the general admission bathrooms! they said it wasn't in the budget. it's in the budget to build three times as many suites with hot water. during a world series game at the jake a foolio came up to me and asked if he could receive a fax somewhere in the ballpark! :dang:

Midnightwriter1
04-12-2006, 05:12 PM
lol @ a fax in ballbark... good lord. Since the NYSE said that business's can no longer take clients to strip joints, i guess the ball park will become the new place to do business. <--shakes head

clevestinks
04-12-2006, 08:16 PM
how is baseball smack lame, I myself just love watching Yanks fans and BoSox fans go at it, those teams HATE each other and it is so bad they throw just about anything at each other
That is the one exception. Is that really baseball anyway! LOL

clevestinks
04-12-2006, 08:17 PM
tell me about it!! you know that when they built the new cleveland browns stadium they weren't going to have hot water in the general admission bathrooms! they said it wasn't in the budget. it's in the budget to build three times as many suites with hot water. during a world series game at the jake a foolio came up to me and asked if he could receive a fax somewhere in the ballpark! :dang:
Yes its everywhere! Hell even ball games at the jake have at least 100+ still in their suits and ties, YAWN Boring

SteelShooter
04-13-2006, 03:02 AM
Coachspeak33,

First off: Very well written and thought out post. The success of this post alone is expressed in the number of replies and the dialogue that has since ensued. Thank you (I am being sincere) for your thoughts.

But, I do disagree. I believe, IMO, that the FO is looking at taking a larger number of players and "culling" so to speak to get the better/higher quality players. Sometimes the staff does things that I really do not understand. But that is part of our culture as being part of this wonderfully exciting yet entirely dynamic sport.

I have heard that "A love is not true until that love is unconditional."

Perhaps the same can be said for our fanbase. That the support must be unconditional.

Do I always agree with decisions? Not at all. But I still support them. I do not look to Bill Cowher to give me advice on my performance or decision-making in the military (my occupation), nor do I offer him advice on coaching (except when I yell at the television for playing the "soft defense"....I do despise that). He is a HIGHLY paid, and successful professional. That is his job. I do not know enough to coach a professional football team. Nor, for example, do Bill's skill sets encompass the operation and instruction of a MK-44 weapons system (7.62mm, tripod mounted, 6-barrel gatling gun with a firing rate of 3,000 rounds per minute............a devastating toy of mine :cool: ).

I did enjoy your post though. It caused me to think, and it offered options to consider. But....I'm gonna leave that particular part of the business to the staff.

Once again, thank you for the intriguing article.

clevestinks
04-13-2006, 04:24 AM
[QUOTE=SteelShooter

Do I always agree with decisions? Not at all. But I still support them. I do not look to Bill Cowher to give me advice on my performance or decision-making in the military (my occupation), nor do I offer him advice on coaching (except when I yell at the television for playing the "soft defense"....I do despise that). He is a HIGHLY paid, and successful professional. That is his job. I do not know enough to coach a professional football team. Nor, for example, do Bill's skill sets encompass the operation and instruction of a MK-44 weapons system (7.62mm, tripod mounted, 6-barrel gatling gun with a firing rate of 3,000 rounds per minute............a devastating toy of mine :cool: ).

I did enjoy your post though. It caused me to think, and it offered options to consider. But....I'm gonna leave that particular part of the business to the staff.

Once again, thank you for the intriguing article.[/QUOTE]
Well said, and it is always easy as a fan to disagree with a bad descision. After the play.