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View Full Version : Animal Sedative Used in Okla. Inmate's Execution


SteelerEmpire
12-17-2010, 12:00 PM
The death penalty, the death penalty. Wow. It amazes me. I once got close enough to a group of Anti-Abortionists and asked exactly what they believe in regarding abortion. They said we regard the fetus as a human life and abortion is taking a human life. Then I asked the same group of people what they thought about the death penalty....... THEY ALL SUPPORTED IT !!! LOL ! Anyway...

Article

MCALESTER, Okla. (CBS/AP) Convicted murderer John David Duty was executed Thursday evening in Oklahoma, using a drug combination that included pentobarbital, a sedative often used to euthanize animals.

LINK: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20025984-504083.html?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.6

cubanstogie
12-17-2010, 12:41 PM
The death penalty, the death penalty. Wow. It amazes me. I once got close enough to a group of Anti-Abortionists and asked exactly what they believe in regarding abortion. They said we regard the fetus as a human life and abortion is taking a human life. Then I asked the same group of people what they thought about the death penalty....... THEY ALL SUPPORTED IT !!! LOL ! Anyway...

Article

MCALESTER, Okla. (CBS/AP) Convicted murderer John David Duty was executed Thursday evening in Oklahoma, using a drug combination that included pentobarbital, a sedative often used to euthanize animals.

LINK: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20025984-504083.html?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.6

you can't see the difference? That is the problem, lol. Killing someone on death row hardly the same as innocent fetus. apples to oranges.

cubanstogie
12-17-2010, 12:45 PM
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I am wondering if you are trying to imply the drug therapy was inappropriate. Phenobarbital is given to humans all the time for anti seizures. I hardly feel sorry for the guy.

SteelCityMom
12-17-2010, 01:19 PM
I've got a lot of opinions on the death penalty...without going into long boring details of why (unless someone wants to hear me ramble), I don't agree with it because I don't completely trust the people who comprise 12 man juries and the justice system as a whole. Not to mention the fact that because this system is inherently flawed, there are steps in place that make the death penalty more expensive than life in prison.

If killing one innocent fetus is abhorable, then the possibility of killing one innocent person on death row should be as well.

Yes, I get that some to most are guilty and pretty much deserve it, but there's no way anyone can say that it's 100% foolproof. And if you say that if an innocent one slipping through the cracks every now and then is just collateral damage, then you can't use the argument that "every life is precious" in your anti-abortion rants. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

As far as the drug goes...like stogie said, there are animal drugs in lots of things humans take, so I'm not all that surprised by it.

tony hipchest
12-17-2010, 01:33 PM
the shoulda used a bullet. or better yet electricity or a noose.

as for the "apples to oranges" excuse, i believe that is just a cop out people use to cope with their own internal stuggle of how hypocritical their beliefs are.

painting it as 2 different things somehow makes it easier to deal with.

human life is human life in the eyes of God whether it is taken by abortion, capital punishment, war or natural disaster.

i wonder how many fetuses we killed when we nuked hiroshima and nagasaki. :noidea:

cubanstogie
12-17-2010, 04:50 PM
the shoulda used a bullet. or better yet electricity or a noose.

as for the "apples to oranges" excuse, i believe that is just a cop out people use to cope with their own internal stuggle of how hypocritical their beliefs are.

painting it as 2 different things somehow makes it easier to deal with.

human life is human life in the eyes of God whether it is taken by abortion, capital punishment, war or natural disaster.

i wonder how many fetuses we killed when we nuked hiroshima and nagasaki. :noidea:

I can't argue about the cop out and internal struggle because I am for the death penalty and am pro choice, but I still see a huge difference. God can see things the way he wants and so can religious people. But even God couldn't convince me the "human life" of a fetus, and "human life" of a guy who kidnaps, rapes, and kills innocent people is comparable and of equal value. Not to open up another can of worms but that is my problem with most religions. Why do we forgive so easily. Some people don't deserve to be forgiven, just killed.

ricardisimo
12-17-2010, 05:11 PM
By the way, Mom, the Supreme Court decided a while back that innocence was not a bar to a state carrying out an execution, so long as the trial was deemed procedurally sound. That's right, an innocent man was found guilty in a court of law, his appeals exhausted, and then just before he was going to get zapped, the actual perpetrator was found and confessed.

The Supremes decided that it didn't matter. He'd had his day in court and lost, and now had to pay the piper. That's right - states are therefore perfectly within their rights to execute innocent people, and have now gone down on record as having done so, with Federal sanction.

Quiz time! Take a wild guess which state it was that was so eager to kill an innocent man. Take a wild guess who was the governor at the time. And for bonus points, take a really wild guess what they decided to do with the other guy after the innocent guy was executed.

MasterOfPuppets
12-17-2010, 05:23 PM
i'm guessing texas , with bush , and the perp was givin an executive job with haliburton ...:noidea:

SteelCityMom
12-17-2010, 06:35 PM
I can't argue about the cop out and internal struggle because I am for the death penalty and am pro choice, but I still see a huge difference. God can see things the way he wants and so can religious people. But even God couldn't convince me the "human life" of a fetus, and "human life" of a guy who kidnaps, rapes, and kills innocent people is comparable and of equal value. Not to open up another can of worms but that is my problem with most religions. Why do we forgive so easily. Some people don't deserve to be forgiven, just killed.

That might be the point for some people...but I think the point being brought up here is, is it comparable to kill a fetus and wrongly convict and sentence to death (and carry out the execution) of an innocent person?

Like I said, I know, for the most part, that the guilty people are caught and tried...but why even take the chance of allowing the state and federal government to murder an innocent person? If there was some way to guarantee, 100%, that the right person was caught and convicted every single time...then I'd be all for the death penalty. Unfortunately, to err is human, and that goes for the justice system as well.

Besides, I don't think convicting people to life in prison is the same as forgiving them. It's not like if the death penalty is abolished, all the sudden people guilty of murder are going to be pardoned and allowed to start their lives over. If it is found that the person convicted is innocent though, they would at least be given that chance.

SteelerEmpire
12-17-2010, 07:49 PM
That might be the point for some people...but I think the point being brought up here is, is it comparable to kill a fetus and wrongly convict and sentence to death (and carry out the execution) of an innocent person?

Like I said, I know, for the most part, that the guilty people are caught and tried...but why even take the chance of allowing the state and federal government to murder an innocent person? If there was some way to guarantee, 100%, that the right person was caught and convicted every single time...then I'd be all for the death penalty. Unfortunately, to err is human, and that goes for the justice system as well.

Besides, I don't think convicting people to life in prison is the same as forgiving them. It's not like if the death penalty is abolished, all the sudden people guilty of murder are going to be pardoned and allowed to start their lives over. If it is found that the person convicted is innocent though, they would at least be given that chance.

I agree here. I for one am also an Israeli citizen. Yes. Israel is a war zone (an "actual" war zone). Its fundamentally a big military base in the middle of hostile neighbors. Out in the field, people get killed... that's a fact. BUT. There is NO death penalty in Israel and this goes for ALL Jews, Muslims, Christians or whatever may be the case. The death penalty does not "deter" ANY crime or bring back any victim.
Never has, never will... Its just a form of "get back " for a relatives loved ones... and that's pretty much it. .... Just like the Muslims say, "an eye for an eye"...

MasterOfPuppets
12-17-2010, 08:10 PM
God was all about the death penalty

“Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man” (Genesis 9:6 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Genesis%209.6)).

"And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;...a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."
Genesis 4:11-15.

13 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

(http://biblia.com/books/niv/Ro13.1-7)

Romans 13:1–7

SteelerEmpire
12-18-2010, 12:38 AM
God was all about the death penalty

“Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man” (Genesis 9:6 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Genesis%209.6)).

"And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;...a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."
Genesis 4:11-15.

13 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

(http://biblia.com/books/niv/Ro13.1-7)

Romans 13:1–7

That's a Christian bible quote... but all religious books are full of "old world" philosophy...

ricardisimo
12-18-2010, 02:56 AM
I agree here. I for one am also an Israeli citizen. Yes. Israel is a war zone (an "actual" war zone). Its fundamentally a big military base in the middle of hostile neighbors. Out in the field, people get killed... that's a fact. BUT. There is NO death penalty in Israel and this goes for ALL Jews, Muslims, Christians or whatever may be the case. The death penalty does not "deter" ANY crime or bring back any victim.
Never has, never will... Its just a form of "get back " for a relatives loved ones... and that's pretty much it. .... Just like the Muslims say, "an eye for an eye"...
Adolf Eichmann and Meir Tobianski might disagree with you, but there are indeed very few death sentences handed out in Israel, and fewer still actually executed. This is truly a credit to the Israeli people. It would be more so if they were to simply abolish it all together. Being an American, I obviously have zero room to talk, however.

"Just like the Muslims say"? Really? I'm pretty sure that's the Code of Hammurabi, as well as Leviticus (http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=leviticus+24:19-24:21&version=nrsvae), Exodus (http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=exodus+21:22-21:25&version=nrsvae) and Deuteronomy (http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=deuteronomy+19:16-19:21&version=nrsvae). But if you insist... :noidea:

Do you mind if I ask with whom Israel is at war? [I'm afraid this thread is about to go waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy off-topic very soon]

MasterOfPuppets
12-18-2010, 02:00 PM
That's a Christian bible quote... but all religious books are full of "old world" philosophy...
so it's up to mankind to determine what part of God's word is out dated ? :noidea:
who gets to decides that ? the professional God squad , the clergymen ? , government ? ,or should it be decided by individual's based on what part's of the religious text's suit their lifestyles and need's ?