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eafratitpm3
12-24-2010, 12:53 PM
I think this is going to bite us in the playoffs. It seems like teams are starting from at least the 30 each time. This is a huge advantage for the other team. You thoughts!

Atlanta Dan
12-24-2010, 01:27 PM
Kickoff coverage has regressed since Skippy was cut (never thought I would be typing that sentence:chuckle:)- agreed that a KO return such as that which started the Jets game could be fatal - since Reed's kickoffs were also horrible hopefully it can be fixed in January

Goldsteel86
12-24-2010, 01:39 PM
I think that it is intentional by Tomlin's doing. He did a Press Conference last week and admitted he does it sometimes intentionally. I really like the fact that we have Suisham, he has really been a bright spot for the special teams (sometimes the only offense), you saw Ben's face display a look of confidence last night when Suisham had to come in and add a field goal after the offense stalled.

Whodis
12-24-2010, 02:38 PM
I think that it is intentional by Tomlin's doing. He did a Press Conference last week and admitted he does it sometimes intentionally. I really like the fact that we have Suisham, he has really been a bright spot for the special teams (sometimes the only offense), you saw Ben's face display a look of confidence last night when Suisham had to come in and add a field goal after the offense stalled.

Can you go into depth on that?

This could also be the answer to Arians stupid play calling?

lionslicer
12-24-2010, 02:40 PM
Kickoff coverage has regressed since Skippy was cut (never thought I would be typing that sentence:chuckle:)- agreed that a KO return such as that which started the Jets game could be fatal - since Reed's kickoffs were also horrible hopefully it can be fixed in January

His kickoffs were atleast high... the kick off coverage was usually at the 20 yardline by the time the returner caught the ball, they just can't tackle for crap... Suisham kicks long drives, not has helpful for the special teams players who can't tackle if their lives depended on it.

Whodis
12-24-2010, 03:00 PM
His kickoffs were atleast high... the kick off coverage was usually at the 20 yardline by the time the returner caught the ball, they just can't tackle for crap... Suisham kicks long drives, not has helpful for the special teams players who can't tackle if their lives depended on it.

On the bright side if we played two-hand touch we would have them at the 20 every time!

JCPsteelers
12-24-2010, 04:48 PM
Special teams coverage was good until we got a new kicker. I don't think its a coincidence.

Not sure what we can do about it at this point.

MasterOfPuppets
12-24-2010, 05:52 PM
are you guys really suggesting that there's a connection between the person kicking the ball, and the other 10 guys not staying in their lanes and piss poor tackling ?

MattsMe
12-24-2010, 06:57 PM
are you guys really suggesting that there's a connection between the person kicking the ball, and the other 10 guys not staying in their lanes and piss poor tackling ?

I'm not. But kickoff coverage was good until Obama passed the tax bill. Just sayin'

lionslicer
12-24-2010, 08:43 PM
are you guys really suggesting that there's a connection between the person kicking the ball, and the other 10 guys not staying in their lanes and piss poor tackling ?

Everyone knows the special teamers can't tackle, but the points is Reed's kickoffs weren't as long, but they were really high, allowed the guys who can't tackle atleast be a lot closer by the time the returner got the ball. Atleast let 2 or 3 guys miss tackles so someone eventually gets them down.

But i'd rather have a kicker who actually can make points than make good kickoffs, steelers can always put Harrison out there again if it gets bad

MillerMania83
12-24-2010, 10:38 PM
I think this is going to bite us in the playoffs. It seems like teams are starting from at least the 30 each time. This is a huge advantage for the other team. You thoughts!

30yd line, huh, it seems more like the 35-40yd line....The special teams are making it too easy for the opposing teams offense by not making them do the distance....And like it was said, come playoff time against a great team, thats a no no, or it will be 1 and done for sure.

steeltheone
12-24-2010, 11:01 PM
Guess what...It is possible to have a kicker that can score points and kick to the endzone! This new guy gives teams the ball at the 30 plus every time.

ZoneBlitzer
12-24-2010, 11:39 PM
I think this is going to bite us in the playoffs. It seems like teams are starting from at least the 30 each time. This is a huge advantage for the other team. You thoughts!

Yes, I've noticed that and I expect at least one kickoff return for a TD is due as well. I'm disappointed because MT claimed that Suisham was capable of delivering great kickoffs.

steeltheone
12-25-2010, 08:08 AM
Field position is so very important, Sometimes we forget.

MillerMania83
12-25-2010, 09:08 AM
I think Suisham's kickoff's are better than Reed's, he does get it inside the 10 many times, but it's the coverage team that has been HORRIBLE...The receiver doesn't get touched till he's at the 30yrd line, usually the first two guys that get doen there don't come close to making the tackle....And once you get a guy like Smith from the Jets going with a head of steam and a crease, it's BYE BYE....IMO, need MUCH BETTER coverage on our part on these kickoffs, MUCH BETTER.

LVSteelersfan
12-25-2010, 02:11 PM
I don't miss Reed but it is kind of disconcerting that almost every other kicker we go against puts the ball into or close to the end zone every time and the Steelers kickers do not. And our new punter is not very good at pinning people while we seem to get pinned back inside the 10 yard line almost every time. Our kickers just aren't very good. It will be interesting to see if Sepulveda comes back next year or if they try to find another guy. Of course, there probably won't be a season next year, so I guess it doesn't matter. How do they handle a draft if the season is shut down completely? Is there no draft the following year at all? Or do they redraft using the preceding year's draft order?

austinfrench76
12-25-2010, 03:55 PM
Either way you cut it, the kick-offs blow. We need to pin teams back, especially with our D!

lionslicer
12-25-2010, 05:44 PM
I think everyone should just deal with it, there are teams with kick off specialists, but becuase of injuries of older players, Steelers would never waste a roster spot on a kick off specialist. So everyone should just kiss the idea of a kicker making touchbacks constantly away... Unless the Steelers get the Ravens kicker, who has like 40-50 touchbacks which is like amazing, the average kicker only gets like 10-15 a season.

MasterOfPuppets
12-25-2010, 06:17 PM
I think everyone should just deal with it, there are teams with kick off specialists, but becuase of injuries of older players, Steelers would never waste a roster spot on a kick off specialist. So everyone should just kiss the idea of a kicker making touchbacks constantly away... Unless the Steelers get the Ravens kicker, who has like 40-50 touchbacks which is like amazing, the average kicker only gets like 10-15 a season.
here's perspective....
avg per kickoff ( 65 yds to endzone ) 2010
Billy Cundiff (http://www.nfl.com/players/billycundiff/profile?id=CUN046143) ..... ................71.7 yds
Sebastian Janikowski (http://www.nfl.com/players/sebastianjanikowski/profile?id=JAN400354)..... 67 yds
Robbie Gould ...............65
Shaun Suisham (http://www.nfl.com/players/shaunsuisham/profile?id=SUI593274) ...............60.1 yds
Jeff Reed (http://www.nfl.com/players/jeffreed/profile?id=REE265822) ............................58.5 yds ( since joining the 49'ers )

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&statisticPositionCategory=KICKOFF_KICKER&season=2010&seasonType=REG

14 kickers get the ball to the endzone per average ( gould ranks 14th )

lionslicer
12-25-2010, 07:19 PM
here's perspective....
avg per kickoff ( 65 yds to endzone ) 2010
Billy Cundiff (http://www.nfl.com/players/billycundiff/profile?id=CUN046143) ..... ................71.7 yds
Sebastian Janikowski (http://www.nfl.com/players/sebastianjanikowski/profile?id=JAN400354)..... 67 yds
Robbie Gould ...............65
Shaun Suisham (http://www.nfl.com/players/shaunsuisham/profile?id=SUI593274) ...............60.1 yds
Jeff Reed (http://www.nfl.com/players/jeffreed/profile?id=REE265822) ............................58.5 yds ( since joining the 49'ers )

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&statisticPositionCategory=KICKOFF_KICKER&season=2010&seasonType=REG

14 kickers get the ball to the endzone per average ( gould ranks 14th )

....... That proves nothing? It it has to be high enough so that the coverage is down the field far enough that when the player catches it in the endzone he'll down it. Again I'm still right about the average kicker only getting like 10-15 touchbacks a season, and I was being giving, looking at those stats, seems the average is less than 8 touchbacks a season

Like serious dude, you seem to be trying too much and failing harder than Ashley Simpson....

It seems it doesn't matter how far they kick it, because the return yard averages are scattered, with reed's returns averaging 24 yards and shauns 22 yards, the lost return yards is Dawson with 17 and he kicks the ball 61 yards, only 3 more yards than reed. More than likely Dawson's are high enough to give the coverage time to get around the returner because he only has 6 touchbacks.

LVSteelersfan
12-26-2010, 12:29 AM
I'm just complaining because it seems like every kicker the Steelers go against seems to kick it to no farther out than the 5 yard line and their punters almost always pin us inside the 10. It seems like someone at the NFL level should be able to do a better job than Suisham or Reed.

MasterOfPuppets
12-26-2010, 01:18 AM
....... That proves nothing? It it has to be high enough so that the coverage is down the field far enough that when the player catches it in the endzone he'll down it. Again I'm still right about the average kicker only getting like 10-15 touchbacks a season, and I was being giving, looking at those stats, seems the average is less than 8 touchbacks a season

Like serious dude, you seem to be trying too much and failing harder than Ashley Simpson....

It seems it doesn't matter how far they kick it, because the return yard averages are scattered, with reed's returns averaging 24 yards and shauns 22 yards, the lost return yards is Dawson with 17 and he kicks the ball 61 yards, only 3 more yards than reed. More than likely Dawson's are high enough to give the coverage time to get around the returner because he only has 6 touchbacks.

you clueless goober.:doh: i wasn't trying to "prove" anything. i was pointing out the difference in leg strength. i think 11.5 yds is pretty damn big difference.
you pointed out touchbacks and return yds. neither of which the kicker has much control over. the return man and coverage team does. let a wuss like randal el field 5 janikowski kickoffs , janikowski will most likely get credited with 5 TB's , where a descent return man might average 25 yds per return.
stats are subjective and don't paint a completely accurate picture. even the ones i posted there, doesn't tell you how many kicks were intentionally kicked short or squibbed , or how many onside kicks have been attempted.

steeltheone
12-26-2010, 07:37 AM
you clueless goober.:doh: i wasn't trying to "prove" anything. i was pointing out the difference in leg strength. i think 11.5 yds is pretty damn big difference.
you pointed out touchbacks and return yds. neither of which the kicker has much control over. the return man and coverage team does. let a wuss like randal el field 5 janikowski kickoffs , janikowski will most likely get credited with 5 TB's , where a descent return man might average 25 yds per return.
stats are subjective and don't paint a completely accurate picture. even the ones i posted there, doesn't tell you how many kicks were intentionally kicked short or squibbed , or how many onside kicks have been attempted.

I understood what you were getting at.

finesward
12-26-2010, 07:57 AM
Look at the guy from dallas, he kicks TB's but missed an extra point that lost the game! WOW!!!! lol

TRH
12-26-2010, 08:06 AM
It's not Suisham, it's the kick-off coverage/poor tackling and our bad punting.
How many times do you see the other side kick the ball, their ST's our down there in a snap inside the 10 or worse and down the ball?
How many times do you see us do it? Yep, that's right...hardly ever. If we actually pin somebody its a rarity. I do think we had a better chance when Sep was healthy. Thats a tough injury for us.
Looking back at the kick-offs in the last 3 or 4 games, its amazing how many tackles we whiff on around the 15, 20 yard line allowing for easy run backs to the 30 and beyond...

fat4jc
12-26-2010, 01:45 PM
You gotta also take into account the open/closed end of Heinz Field. Suisham can't get a TB on either end, but when factoring in other kickers, I think it's important to think about that. We've just played 3 straight home games, and I can't remember any K's getting a TB kicking into the open end.

ricardisimo
12-27-2010, 03:12 PM
....... That proves nothing? It it has to be high enough so that the coverage is down the field far enough that when the player catches it in the endzone he'll down it. Again I'm still right about the average kicker only getting like 10-15 touchbacks a season, and I was being giving, looking at those stats, seems the average is less than 8 touchbacks a season

Like serious dude, you seem to be trying too much and failing harder than Ashley Simpson....

It seems it doesn't matter how far they kick it, because the return yard averages are scattered, with reed's returns averaging 24 yards and shauns 22 yards, the lost return yards is Dawson with 17 and he kicks the ball 61 yards, only 3 more yards than reed. More than likely Dawson's are high enough to give the coverage time to get around the returner because he only has 6 touchbacks.
Last I heard (and I follow these things very closely) Ashlee Simpson was win, and Fox News was fail. (http://blogs.psychcentral.com/celebrity/2009/01/ashlee-simpson-win-fox-news-epic-fail/) Get your facts straight, LS.

grward
12-27-2010, 03:27 PM
Did anyone hear James Farrior call out the ST for the 3 points the D gave up in the Carolina game? The media asked if the D was hoping for a shut out and Farrior blamed the 3 points on the ST by letting them start on the 20 yard line. This is why he is a leader ... he calls a spade, a spade. I don't think the D liked giving up 3 points, but it's hard to stop a field goal when they are spotted at the 20 yard line.

lionslicer
12-27-2010, 06:09 PM
you clueless goober.:doh: i wasn't trying to "prove" anything. i was pointing out the difference in leg strength. i think 11.5 yds is pretty damn big difference.
you pointed out touchbacks and return yds. neither of which the kicker has much control over. the return man and coverage team does. let a wuss like randal el field 5 janikowski kickoffs , janikowski will most likely get credited with 5 TB's , where a descent return man might average 25 yds per return.
stats are subjective and don't paint a completely accurate picture. even the ones i posted there, doesn't tell you how many kicks were intentionally kicked short or squibbed , or how many onside kicks have been attempted.

Well, I hate you none the less, because I'm stupid, you're an asshole, and I get pissed off when you say random things that have nothing to do with what I said but somehow I think it does so I just want to make you seem wrong because I hate you.

MasterOfPuppets
12-27-2010, 07:21 PM
Well, I hate you none the less, because I'm stupid, you're an asshole, and I get pissed off when you say random things that have nothing to do with what I said but somehow I think it does so I just want to make you seem wrong because I hate you.
lol...well , you mentioned cundiff , so i just thought i'd show the difference between a kickers with strong legs , and the weak bastards that the steelers have trotted out this year. i wasn't disagreeing with you. infact i was reinforcing your claims reguarding cundiff . he could literally kick your ass over your shoulders.:chuckle:

MDSteel15
12-28-2010, 10:55 AM
Can't we all just get along? :noidea: