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View Full Version : trade out of 1st round for a 1st rounder next year


tony hipchest
04-13-2006, 06:08 PM
since i havnt seen no discussion on this topic i will say that denver looks pretty good with getting both a top 3 wr and rb in this years 1st round. last year dallas landed damarcus ware and the other dude. san diego got castillo and merriman and the patriots made this manuver work for them several years back when they gave their 1st rounder to baltimore to move ahead of us and take boller :sofunny: .

if the steelers find themselvs reaching for a player, or the best player on the board is someone they really dont need (say n. mangold is still there and a team like the jets or texans want to move up to grab him).

steelers would consider this, they consider many moves like this on draft day, but would they pull the trigger?
pros- already stated
cons- takes the wind out of the sails of the fans on draft day. winding up with a top 10 pick next year could be very expensive. we have too many needs in depth to address this year?

(not talking about an even swap. what else you think we could get for trading out?)

Midnightwriter1
04-13-2006, 06:30 PM
If Mangold is there i think we have to take him... As you said, the Steelers are really in a great position to do whatever. We could trade our of first if a team wants a play and get two second round picks or an extra second and third or something. I just dont know if we will seince we dont have immediate needs so they may feel in position to make those first 3 draft picks count with solid players and no reaches.

I happen to like our WR core with Ward, Wilson. Morgan, Washington and my fifth would be Walter Young. Young is 6 4 220 Ward and wilson are not big but Morgan and Washington are decent size and young could be that goal line threat. We brought Wilson in for his speed so peaople saying he dont have receiver who can stetch the field i dont really understand. I would even keep Wilson as # 3 and move Morgan. young into # 2
Again, randle El stats 35 catches and 1 TD were pathetic for a # 2 and we still didnt really complain about his stats during year so i dont see any reason why we would need to spend a first on a guy who may not even be better than what we have already.


But will all be up in the air and the Steelers arent giving many hints.

Koopa
04-13-2006, 07:03 PM
won't drafting mangold just make signing to okobi to an extension pointless???

Suitanim
04-14-2006, 09:40 AM
I happen to like our WR core with Ward, Wilson. Morgan, Washington and my fifth would be Walter Young

Oh dear God please say you are joking. This is a disaster waiting to happen...if Ward (who is no kid anymore) were to go down, Cedric Wilson becomes a #1 receiver, and I can't envision a worse scenario. Morgan is inconsistent (Hell, the guy was cut from Cleveland), and we know practically nothing about Washington and Young.

As I stated before, having an elite quarterback almost becomes pointless if you don't surround him with the weapons needed to exploit his talent. The only saving grace to all this lies in the fact that we have a nice weapon at TE (and finally seem willing to use it) and Duce, Parker and Verron are all capable receivers out of the backfield.

WR is a top priority for this team, if not the top priority.

Also, Koop is right. Why would the Steelers tie up all that money in centers? I'm a lifelong OSU fan, and I know Mangold is good, but there are still a few questions surrounding him, so it's not like he's a sure bet or anything.

tony hipchest
04-14-2006, 10:34 AM
so is there a wr there at #32 who would be able to step in and replace hines in the event of an injury? cause i agree that wr is probably our most glaring need. but with a trade of #32 we could possibly land a top 10-15 pick in next years draft to go along with our own #1 and address a top 1-3 wr then.

this is why i wanted e. moulds. sure hes old but so was jimmy smith 5 years ago.

clevestinks
04-14-2006, 11:00 AM
We need to upgrade at WR, no doubt. A center seems like a reach. Trading the first pick will probably never fly in the burgh. It is a good question though.

Suitanim
04-14-2006, 11:40 AM
so is there a wr there at #32 who would be able to step in and replace hines in the event of an injury? cause i agree that wr is probably our most glaring need. but with a trade of #32 we could possibly land a top 10-15 pick in next years draft to go along with our own #1 and address a top 1-3 wr then.

this is why i wanted e. moulds. sure hes old but so was jimmy smith 5 years ago.

I don't know...but I'm guessing there's a better chance of one being there at #32 then there will be at #64. First I heard that Holmes MAY have trouble seperating at the next level, but he is an excellent route runner, and is explosive, although he lacks elite speed. He's also a good blocker. 53 catches for 977 yards and 11 TD's in the tough Big 10 is nothing to scoff at. 5'11" 180-190 is smallish compared to Randy Moss, but is gigantic compared to Steve Smith.

I'm definitely wary of Chad Jackson after reading up on him. Although he has good size (6'1" 213), and looks good statistically in the off-season, there are a lot of questions about his experience, ability to block, and his 10.2 YPC is AWFUL (I think I read somewhere that almost 600 WR's had a better average than him last year).

I think the position I'm taking is if Santonio lasts through the middle of round one, we should try to move up and grab him...but I'm still debating this decision.

BlitzburghRockCity
04-14-2006, 11:55 AM
I think Nate Washington could be a diamond in the rough for us..if he has a good camp and can land some decent playing time he could be a gem for us.. but having said that, there is little doubt we will look to get another WR or 2..atleast 1 on day 1 this draft. Possibly in a draft day trade????

Im ok with Hines and Cedric only because we have Heath at TE and Parker is a beast on the swing passes and dump offs across the middle..but to say that Im comfortable with our current WR's corp would be a lie. I'd really wanna see us get a veteran because we dont seem to have much luck with drafting WR's since Hines and El.

tony hipchest
04-14-2006, 11:58 AM
holmes was on sirius yesterday and i was impressed when he said he molded his game after and looks up to t. holt, and m. harrison. how theyre kinda quiet and just go about their business. he seemed to be saying hes not into all the showboating and "look at me, look at me" mentality. im not really opposed to moving up or down in the draft cause we have so much flexibility to do both, or stand firm at 32. if the steelers did pull the trigger and move up i think theyd be just as sure about the player they moved up for as they were about polamalu.

Suitanim
04-14-2006, 12:02 PM
The nice thing about drafting a guy like Holmes over a Troy Edwards or even a Plaxico is that Holmes was consistent for 3 years (Edwards was drafted for one big game), he played against top notch opposition week in and week out (Edwards did not), and there's no knock against his work ethic (Burress already was known for taking plays off at MSU).

slashsteel
04-14-2006, 12:07 PM
Suit good points, but I dont think Holmes will be available at 32. And that leaves us with Moss ? ? No thank you........

Suitanim
04-14-2006, 12:32 PM
Suit good points, but I dont think Holmes will be available at 32. And that leaves us with Moss ? ? No thank you........

Re-read...I said if he makes it into mid-round 1, try and move up.

Stlrs4Life
04-14-2006, 12:42 PM
won't drafting mangold just make signing to okobi to an extension pointless???


I agree. Unless Mangold can play other OL positions.

Suitanim
04-14-2006, 12:45 PM
I agree. Unless Mangold can play other OL positions.

Which makes the pick even more unlikely...why draft a guy to play out of position?

Haiku_Dirtt
04-14-2006, 03:35 PM
When the Steelers spent a first round pick on Miller you have to believe that his catching ability had something to do with it.

Heath is not Mark Breuner. So when you look at our receiving core going into 2006 season I think you have to rope him into the mix. The passing game is going to rely heavily on Whiz being able to mix it up and take pressure off the wideouts (especially pending injuries) with the TE and the likes of Verron - he did have a few super-clutch catches last year.

It seems like the first round in next years draft will be deeper. And with Chukky getting the time to mature under Hartings a center in the first would be somewhat sideways. As Suit said why draft out of position with a first round pick.

I think they'll focus on project receivers/athletes with the plethora of mid-round drafts this year. And a successful running game next season would be a nice bridge into the future.

3 to be 4
04-17-2006, 12:01 AM
so is there a wr there at #32 who would be able to step in and replace hines in the event of an injury? cause i agree that wr is probably our most glaring need. but with a trade of #32 we could possibly land a top 10-15 pick in next years draft to go along with our own #1 and address a top 1-3 wr then.

this is why i wanted e. moulds. sure hes old but so was jimmy smith 5 years ago.

Tony, im impressed. Now you are thinking like Belichick and Pioli! You hit on it exactly. Iff your guy isnt there at #32 and you feel whoever you pick isnt a good value at #32, you are much better off trading out to get a 10-15 next year. Thats how you keep your team strong for years. You might even be able to get the other team to throw in something for this year, like a 3rd or 4th rounder.

tootalltoscore
04-17-2006, 06:22 PM
I don't know...but I'm guessing there's a better chance of one being there at #32 then there will be at #64. First I heard that Holmes MAY have trouble seperating at the next level, but he is an excellent route runner, and is explosive, although he lacks elite speed. He's also a good blocker. 53 catches for 977 yards and 11 TD's in the tough Big 10 is nothing to scoff at. 5'11" 180-190 is smallish compared to Randy Moss, but is gigantic compared to Steve Smith.

I'm definitely wary of Chad Jackson after reading up on him. Although he has good size (6'1" 213), and looks good statistically in the off-season, there are a lot of questions about his experience, ability to block, and his 10.2 YPC is AWFUL (I think I read somewhere that almost 600 WR's had a better average than him last year).

I think the position I'm taking is if Santonio lasts through the middle of round one, we should try to move up and grab him...but I'm still debating this decision.

Whilst I disagree with you Suit, if we accept that we desperately need a WR then I would rather we seek a trade for Ashley Lelie from denver who seem certain to get a WR in the first round.
As for Mangold he is capable of playing in 2 positions G and C and might be the BPA at our pick. I pray that he is taken earlier then we will not have the debate as to whether we should have taken him, if we do not. I would like to see us take Eslinger at bottom of round 3 myself and concentrate on either S or RB in Round 1.

I admit that I had previously suggested that we should take Mangold but realise now that RB/S is more urgent need. Darnell Bing is my hope - pun intended - replacement. I cannot see Lendale getting to us unless we trade up

Suitanim
04-17-2006, 06:44 PM
Mangold will be taken by the Jets....and why would we try to move a guy out of position, especially when it's not even close to an immediate need?

Is Lelie on our radar? He played in a crazy run and shoot June Jones offense in Hawaii, and has become a little better over the years at Denver, but is he the answer at WR for the Steelers?

Bing scares me...injuries and whatnot.

BigSteelThrill
04-17-2006, 08:39 PM
won't drafting mangold just make signing to okobi to an extension pointless???
No because you never know what will or wont be available at your picks in the draft. So you take care of things as best you can before the draft (like Clark from Was) and then if someone grades very very high and is available for you to select in the draft, you do it.

If Okobis signngs cost them a little bit of capspace and money for some insurance now... but the next Dermontti Dawson is available at your pick... you draft him. Im not saying what Mangold is or is not, just that you never know what is going to happen at the draft.

Also, they may have Lendale White/Sinorice Moss (or anyone) graded high enough to draft, but when their pick comes another teams offers them way to much value for the selection (like a 2nd this years and a 1st next year) and they have no choice but to possibly do it. Even if they had Sinorice Moss pegged all along.