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figg
01-06-2011, 12:19 AM
PITTSBURGH
The Cold, Hard Football Facts: How many Super Bowls does a guy have to win to get some respect around here?

Ben Roethlisberger's name never comes up when it comes time to name the elite quarterbacks.

It should.

The truth is Big Ben is one of the most prolific passers in the history of football. The problem is many fans and pigskin pundits are obsessed with meaningless volume numbers and not the meaningful efficiency numbers -- such as average per attempt -- that have a high correlation to success.

Roethlisberger's career average of 8.04 yards per attempt is the fifth highest mark in the history of football. Three of the guys ahead of him are in the Hall of Fame (Graham, Luckman, Van Brocklin). He's topped 8.0 YPA in a season four times in seven years. Peyton Manning's done it twice in 13 seasons. Tom Brady? Just once.

The Steelers instantly became contenders the day Big Ben walked on the field. And they are a threat to win it all again. Roethlisberger's historic ability to puncture defenses with long passing plays is the biggest reason.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/01/04/nfl-playoffs/index.html#ixzz1AEWbsjBp


:thumbsup:

lionslicer
01-06-2011, 01:05 AM
When people say Ben isn't elite, I just say John Elway...

Ben wins, I don't think it maters how he does it, just that he does it. Thats enough for anyone. He could win 6 superbowls and people would say the league is biased Steelers or his defense won him the games. etc.etc.
The way he plays will never win him respect from new NFL fans.

sarahpalinhater
01-06-2011, 01:17 AM
I hear the same thing. Ben is average. Ben is NO Hall of fame QB, ect. But lets look at something. Ben has 144 TD's in his career so far on exactly 2800 pass attempts. Now, Troy Aikman has 165 TD's on 4715 pass attempts. Now, lets say Ben throws 500 passes next season...he probably won't, but lets say he does, and throws for say 25 TD's. That would give Ben 169 TD's in 3300 pass attempts....over 1400 LESS then Aikman had. And Ben will have way less Interceptions, and a much better QB rating, and average way better YPA,
And lets say Ben and Pittsburgh wins another Super Bowl this season. That would give him the same 3 that Aikman has...more TD passes on way less attempts,,and,,on a team with nowhere near as the talent that Troy had. And yet Aikman was a 1st Ballet Hall of famer,,,and these Idiots say Ben is not ??? Whatever!!

SoCalFan
01-06-2011, 01:44 AM
Thats all fine and dandy,nice write up and I agree 100%.I just dont like SI and the curse it brings!

BGSU A Dub
01-06-2011, 05:47 AM
At the end of the day, I'm glad we have Big Ben rather than any other guy. He's a gamer and he's proven that. He gives opposing coaches and players a headache and has a swagger about him when the game is on the line. Give me Big Ben every game and every down because the dude just knows how to win football games.

grward
01-06-2011, 07:26 AM
Thats all fine and dandy,nice write up and I agree 100%.I just dont like SI and the curse it brings!

Nah, that's just when they are on the cover. No curse here.

TRH
01-06-2011, 07:57 AM
It's 2 things. "Stat-mad" analysts and writers who only look at yards + TD's and then just go right down the list in order and name their elite QB's. The other is the media (ESPN, etc). adopting their darlings (Manning, Brady, Romo, etc...)
It's ridiculous again and again and even as i've been watching the media the last few days there's been barely even a mention of Ben's name (while they're going into the playoffs 12-4 and a #2 seed) only Brady this, Rogers that, Manning this...... Some have said "well, ya know, they don't play this week, blah, blah..."....but Brady is being talked about every 2 seconds.
I don't even go by the "he's won 2 SB thing" anymore, his own stats and leadership ability stand on their own. I wouldn't trade him for anybody on that list. I'm happy with him.
These articles are starting to get very frustrating, but SI has turned into a pretty awful magazine, only time i see them is when i'm waiting in an office or something and they seemed to be loaded with Pats articles every time i do. Garbage just like Time mag has turned into.

cubanstogie
01-06-2011, 08:44 AM
I think most fans at one time or another get irritated for lack of respect the their players or team by the media. I am at an age where I could care less anymore. Its about wins and SB's. you can't argue those stats, although some idiots still blame refs or say game manager or whatever. Just look at a post on here of the 5 most overrated QB's of all time. Bradshaw and Favre are on it. TB has 4 rings, how can he be overrated. Favre although I am not a fan won games on his own in his prime. The guy is old now but overrated no way. When I think overrated Phillip Rivers comes to mind. Everyone wants to say he is the 3rd best QB in the league but hasn't done squat. Chargers have the so called most talent year in year out yet they can't make the playoffs. Oh and Dan Fouts was on the list as well, that writer was smoking some serious shat, they all do not that there is anything wrong with that.

FanSince72
01-06-2011, 09:12 AM
Stats and articles don't mean anything to me.

What means something is what a player does or doesn't do when the game is on the line for all of the marbles and in that case, my money is on Ben.

If you think about it, Terry Bradshaw never comes up in that conversation either and he's always eclipsed by Joe Montana's gaudy stats. But Montana was (in my opinion) more a product of a great and very new and unique system than he was a pure QB. Terry, on the other hand, was a "draw it up in the dirt" sandlot player who simply won when he absolutely had to win. His stats are incredibly average but he was the first to win four SB's and the the only one to do it in just six years (and he probably would have won five if Harris and Bleier weren't out for the AFCC against Oakland in '76).

I compare Ben to Bradshaw.

Ben is at his best when the game is on the line and he draws it up in the dirt as good as Terry ever did. Like Terry, Ben is the guy I'd like to have holding the ball with 2 minutes to go and down by 5 with everything on the line. Ben just gets it done just like Terry did and if there was a stat in the NFL for "slugging percentage", Bradshaw and Roethlisberger would be numbers 1 and 2 (with Elway at #3).

Ben wins when it counts and that's the only stat I'll ever need to know (or care about).

Fire Haley
01-06-2011, 09:34 AM
The Steelers instantly became contenders the day Big Ben walked on the field

There it is


Not coaching, not a ****ing FB in the running game - all meaningless without a great QB

grward
01-06-2011, 10:51 AM
I think most fans at one time or another get irritated for lack of respect the their players or team by the media. I am at an age where I could care less anymore. Its about wins and SB's. you can't argue those stats, although some idiots still blame refs or say game manager or whatever. Just look at a post on here of the 5 most overrated QB's of all time. Bradshaw and Favre are on it. TB has 4 rings, how can he be overrated. Favre although I am not a fan won games on his own in his prime. The guy is old now but overrated no way. When I think overrated Phillip Rivers comes to mind. Everyone wants to say he is the 3rd best QB in the league but hasn't done squat. Chargers have the so called most talent year in year out yet they can't make the playoffs. Oh and Dan Fouts was on the list as well, that writer was smoking some serious shat, they all do not that there is anything wrong with that.

I agee with only one exception ... Dan Marino.

pitt0wns
01-06-2011, 11:10 AM
He is one of the greats and has a unique playing style.

bobby jr
01-06-2011, 11:58 AM
He's a good QB but I disagree that winning two Super Bowls makes him a great one. That has a lot to do with the level of competition your team faces in the post-season, the play of your teams defense, and other factors that have nothing to do with the QB's performance.

LVSteelersfan
01-06-2011, 12:18 PM
Ben is not the pretty boy pocket passer that the media fawns over. Although he has intangibles that no other QB can touch, he is still overlooked. We are all lucky to be fans of a team that has him on it despite his off field troubles. Those off field issues have tarnished his image but he seems to have matured and is better than ever. I will take him over any of those prima donnas who would never survive behind this Oline.

Fire Haley
01-06-2011, 01:02 PM
I just dont like SI and the curse it brings!

I've survived worse than the SI curse

I remember those years like it was yesterday

2000 - Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham
2001 - Kordell Stweart, Tommy Maddox
2002 - Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox
2003 - Tommy Maddox, Charlie Batch

sarahpalinhater
01-06-2011, 02:06 PM
Ben could retire right now, and he already is a for sure LOCK Hall of famer. No matter what the haters wish to belive.

wootawnee
01-06-2011, 04:21 PM
He's the best in the game...........Brady would have got broke in half in the ole days.......Manning , well he's a legend and is Iron, but he gets boring to me and barks like a dog all the time and cannot deal with pressure..........Ben's the Man.........If the 3 of them were in chariots racing like Ben Hur.....My Gusto is with Benjamin......Hes a true Champion.........

Hayeksheroes
01-06-2011, 04:52 PM
I bet if Arians stop calling that receiver screen, Ben's numbers would top 9 yards per pass.

cubanstogie
01-06-2011, 06:56 PM
He's a good QB but I disagree that winning two Super Bowls makes him a great one. That has a lot to do with the level of competition your team faces in the post-season, the play of your teams defense, and other factors that have nothing to do with the QB's performance.

winning 2 sb's is not what makes him great. Better than beating Seahags were the 3 games prior, Cincy, Denver and Colts. 3 phenomenal games for a young QB. Colts were the so called best team that year kind of like the pats this year. Cardinal game speaks for itself just watch the last drive.

As far as level of competition in post season, isn't that the cream of the crop. The QB has the greatest impact of any one player in winning games.

sarahpalinhater
01-06-2011, 07:02 PM
winning 2 sb's is not what makes him great. Better than beating Seahags were the 3 games prior, Cincy, Denver and Colts. 3 phenomenal games for a young QB. Colts were the so called best team that year kind of like the pats this year. Cardinal game speaks for itself just watch the last drive.

As far as level of competition in post season, isn't that the cream of the crop. The QB has the greatest impact of any one player in winning games.




He is right. Ben was great in those 3 playoff games. And even as bad as his stats were in his first Super Bowl game,,,Ben still had the KEY Run on a 3rd and 6 that gave Pittsburgh the chance to run out the clock. Also,,,no matter what you say Raven Boy,,,Ben will ALWAYS be a better " Tackler " then Flacco :tt04: Just check out that 2005 playoff game against Indy :hatsoff:

Kanata-Steeler
01-06-2011, 08:30 PM
The simple real TRUTH is, with or without BEN, if you took away our Steeler's Defense, there would have been NO rings for '05, and '08 period ! Ben is a great QB, I think he is potentially MUCH BETTER than Elway, yada, yada, yada, (but NOT Elite, yet). Ben, as a qb, plays the most important position on that field, within the Offensive line. With that obviously comes the greatest "scrutiny" -especially by all the media. QB's are always ripped high and low, unless your Brady -lol -so of course, it looks like Ben ain't gettin' no respect.

SI ? , naaa, but the article was good nonetheless.

StainlessStill
01-06-2011, 09:07 PM
The simple real TRUTH is, with or without BEN, if you took away our Steeler's Defense, there would have been NO rings for '05, and '08 period ! Ben is a great QB, I think he is potentially MUCH BETTER than Elway, yada, yada, yada, (but NOT Elite, yet). Ben, as a qb, plays the most important position on that field, within the Offensive line. With that obviously comes the greatest "scrutiny" -especially by all the media. QB's are always ripped high and low, unless your Brady -lol -so of course, it looks like Ben ain't gettin' no respect.

SI ? , naaa, but the article was good nonetheless.

Give us Ben in '94, '95, '97, and '01 and maybe we have 4 more titles to show off.

Fire Haley
01-06-2011, 09:22 PM
I give the defense full credit too.

But the offense scored points when it had to.

That is how you define a winning QB.

tony hipchest
01-06-2011, 09:37 PM
I give the defense full credit too.

But the offense scored points when it had to.

That is how you define a winning QB.

exactamundo. if the steelers drafted marino in 83 him and cowher woulda won rings in '94, '95, & '97 (maybe 2001 as well).

plenewken
01-07-2011, 05:12 AM
I give the defense full credit too.

But the offense scored points when it had to.

That is how you define a winning QB.

The (easy to check) truth is that we won the 2005 ring DESPITE Ben. I'm talking about the SB game itself, not the playoffs. He was absolutely horrible that day and holds a record that will be tough to beat: 22.6 QB rating is the lowest ever. The Steelers Defense won that game, period.
That is the simple and honest truth. If O'Donnell blew it against the Cowboys, I don't know what verb to use for Ben against the Seahawks.

wootawnee
01-08-2011, 04:17 AM
The simple real TRUTH is, with or without BEN, if you took away our Steeler's Defense, there would have been NO rings for '05, and '08 period ! Ben is a great QB, I think he is potentially MUCH BETTER than Elway, yada, yada, yada, (but NOT Elite, yet). Ben, as a qb, plays the most important position on that field, within the Offensive line. With that obviously comes the greatest "scrutiny" -especially by all the media. QB's are always ripped high and low, unless your Brady -lol -so of course, it looks like Ben ain't gettin' no respect.

SI ? , naaa, but the article was good nonetheless.

Tell me what team ever one one of the 44 Superbowls with a crummy defense?.....

wootawnee
01-08-2011, 04:23 AM
The (easy to check) truth is that we won the 2005 ring DESPITE Ben. I'm talking about the SB game itself, not the playoffs. He was absolutely horrible that day and holds a record that will be tough to beat: 22.6 QB rating is the lowest ever. The Steelers Defense won that game, period.
That is the simple and honest truth. If O'Donnell blew it against the Cowboys, I don't know what verb to use for Ben against the Seahawks.

Screw them qb ratings.......They dont tell the story......One of his picks(the deep one was like a punt....And thats why we took that shot........Ben stepped up and made the plays when they counted.......3rd and 24? Who ever completes that?.....Elway maybe......He also got key first downs at the end of the game along with Bussie to close it out............That one pick that went back for like 74?...well that one got away from him, but hey, thats one play in a 70 some play performance.......
Bottom line is he got it together when he had to........and his team scored 11 more points......

zulater
01-08-2011, 09:41 AM
The (easy to check) truth is that we won the 2005 ring DESPITE Ben. I'm talking about the SB game itself, not the playoffs. He was absolutely horrible that day and holds a record that will be tough to beat: 22.6 QB rating is the lowest ever. The Steelers Defense won that game, period.
That is the simple and honest truth. If O'Donnell blew it against the Cowboys, I don't know what verb to use for Ben against the Seahawks.

Ben was in his second NFL season, and was under 25, in fact he became the youngest qb to ever win a Super Bowl that day. Ever think there might be a reason for that?

And regardless what he did in SB XL, we don't get there without him.

It's the same as not giving Troy credit for winning SB XLIII, because he didn't have a great game that day. The point is, we never get a sniff of that SB without Troy. Same with Ben in SB XL.