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SteelKnight
01-16-2011, 12:36 AM
Has Ben's performance changed your rankings of QBs. Give your top 7, where Ben fits and use Tiers.

Here's mine:

Tier 1
1. Tom Brady -Tom Terrific is the best in the NFL right now.

Tier 2
2. Aaron Rogers -Starting to look like Tom but he caves sometimes with pressure
2. Ben Roethlisberger -so money in the clutch. Getting rid of the ball quicker.
2. Drew Brees -Very accurate but not always as clutch as Brady or Ben and has been making some questionable decisions lately
2. Peyton Manning -still one of the best but human
6. Michael Vick -amazing year but occasionally still poor decisions. Not always clutch

Tier 3
7. Phillip Rivers -great QB. He just misses Tier 2 due to his lack of ability to take over games sometimes. Excellent numbers but not always clutch.

Yes...I have a 4 way tie for 2nd in Tier 2. Phillip Rivers puts up great numbers but he is not a guy you fear like the other guys in Tier 2.

GMU Steeler
01-16-2011, 12:41 AM
I'd put Ben ahead of Rodgers honestly. No disrespect to Aaron who actually kinda reminds me of Ben in many ways. But Ben has proven himself as a bigger winner than Rodgers at this point in their careers. You gotta think at conservative guess that Ben is a top 5 QB at this point. Honestly, there's no one I'd rather have with the game on the line. Yeah sometimes it ain't pretty but Ben is a winner and has been since his rookie season.

pittguy578
01-16-2011, 12:43 AM
Ben has to be in front of the QB's who have one or fewer Super Bowls. People will say the Steelers won in spite of him in 2005..that is a bunch of BS. He may not have played the best in the game, but he played lights out in the playoffs..Steelers went pass first and surprised every team they played and beat the Colts who beat them pretty soundly earlier in the season. Ben just knows how to win.

NoShootouts
01-16-2011, 12:47 AM
This is a really really tough question to answer considering no one else plays the game the way Ben does. Its hard to argue with SteelKnights list but I would have him equal to Rodgers.

bradyfan12
01-16-2011, 12:51 AM
As a Pats fan who has always disliked Big Ben for her off-the-field antics, I think you are selling him short for on-the-field mastery.

Rodgers is unbelievable. If you put him against any quarterback, in terms of just pure quarterbacking, I might even put him over Brady right now. But he really hasn't proven much. He's won two playoff games. Let's see what happens to him when everyone expects him to win week after week, and after defenses have dissected him to death. That's where Brady, Roethlisberger, and Manning come in as proven winners that have played this game a long time and mastered the art of winning football games. Right now Rodgers is cool and up-and-coming. Lots of quarterbacks have been to this stage and never advanced- many have regressed. Let's wait on this one.

1. Brady
2. Roethlisberger
3. Brees
4. Manning
5. Rodgers/Rivers

The point of playing is to win. Does Manning win when it matters? No. 19 games in the playoffs; 10 wins. Does BR? If he wins next week, he's equaled Manning's playoff wins- with only two losses.

Too many Manning excuses. Brees had 22 INTs. Just not good, no matter how you look at it.

As I mentioned in my first post here, comparing Brady and Roethlisberger is useless. Both are perfect for their offenses but not the other's. I'll just put Brady number one since he just played one of the best seasons I've seen.

CaliStillersFan
01-16-2011, 12:51 AM
If you're looking at the career's Ben is in front of Aaron easily (bling vs no bling), but if we're talking this season, Aaron is just playing out of his mind the last 2 weeks, and has an outstanding year. I might even put him number 1 overall, at least until we see what Brady does to the Jets.

MasterOfPuppets
01-16-2011, 01:14 AM
As I mentioned in my first post here, comparing Brady and Roethlisberger is useless. Both are perfect for their offenses but not the other's. I'll just put Brady number one since he just played one of the best seasons I've seen.
and there's where i disagree , if a nobody like matt freakin cassel can thrive in that offense , i'm pretty sure ben can play in belechiks dink and dunk offense. if you look up the stats , cassels 1 year looks almost identical to brady's first 4 years.
could brady thrive in bens offensive environment ? hell no !!! brady folds like a cheap tent when he gets pressured and hit.

OX1947
01-16-2011, 01:25 AM
Brady's last 6 playoff games is 3-3 and has thrown 11 TDs and 10 INTs. Ill wait to rank everyone after the Super Bowl. However, if Big Ben wins 2 more games, he will be a first ballet hall of famer.

lionslicer
01-16-2011, 01:31 AM
and there's where i disagree , if a nobody like matt freakin cassel can thrive in that offense , i'm pretty sure ben can play in belechiks dink and dunk offense. if you look up the stats , cassels 1 year looks almost identical to brady's first 4 years.
could brady thrive in bens offensive environment ? hell no !!! brady folds like a cheap tent when he gets pressured and hit.

Yeah his 24 to 5 touchdown to interception ratio this year has nothing to do with he's a decent quarterback.

He's a system quarterback like Brady, but did the system build Brady or did Brady build the system. Remember, Bellichicks first year with the Patriots and having Bledso at quarterback, he didn't have a good year, team was 5-11, with Brady next season, they won the superbowl. Almost identical offensive players and coaches. Brady was the only big change, he made it work.

Back to the topic.. I really don't know, like I think Rogers is just a better quarterback right now, but Ben shows that he can win games in the playoffs, which is more important than just being a good quarterback (ask peyton manning). Rogers won against the Falcons, but they just didn't show up to play, I'll be interested to see how he plays when his team is down by 4 in the playoffs and he has to drive 80 yards in 2 minutes, touchdown winning the game. Unless he does that, I guess Ben has the right to be above him.

lionslicer
01-16-2011, 01:35 AM
Brady's last 6 playoff games is 3-3 and has thrown 11 TDs and 10 INTs. Ill wait to rank everyone after the Super Bowl. However, if Big Ben wins 2 more games, he will be a first ballet hall of famer.

Since the superbowl in 2004, Brady has failed to lead his team to game winning drives in the playoffs when givin the chance. But he's also just choked and played terrible games also. Possibly the Brady magic has worn off.

bradyfan12
01-16-2011, 01:36 AM
and there's where i disagree , if a nobody like matt freakin cassel can thrive in that offense , i'm pretty sure ben can play in belechiks dink and dunk offense. if you look up the stats , cassels 1 year looks almost identical to brady's first 4 years.
could brady thrive in bens offensive environment ? hell no !!! brady folds like a cheap tent when he gets pressured and hit.

The Patriots do have a great system. There's no doubt that Brady benefits from great coaching and players who fit.

However, the Matt Cassel sample season is really not very damning of Brady. Cassel took over an offense that was virtually unchanged and had just shattered every record in the book with Brady. They went from a team that scored at an almost impossible level to a very good offense that, by comparison, wasn't even close statistically to this year's team. They scored over 10 ppg less from '07 to '08.

The Pats also had the AFC West and NFC West that year. Against playoff-bound teams, the Patriots had an average margin of victory of 21 points in '07, and an average margin of loss of 18 points in '08, along with five fewer wins. Add to that the fact that Cassel put together a tremendous season with the Chiefs.

But what Brady has done is pretty remarkable. Peyton Manning would have to win his next 60 games to match Brady's winning pct, and Manning is a damn good QB himself. It would be hard to argue that you can just plug someone into this system and get the same, or similar, results. Belichick made him the highest paid player in the league for a reason... and don't think Belichick would make this decision based on reputation rather than the true value of the player.

Perhaps you could argue that Cassel's first year was similar to Brady's first year, although, again, Brady was throwing to guys like Troy Brown and David Patten, while Cassel was throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker. But Brady has eclipsed his production in those first few years by a pretty significant, statistically historic margin.

toughsticks87
01-16-2011, 01:37 AM
Strictly from a winning point of view?

1. Brady (but only with an amazing offensive line)
2. Ben
3. Manning (with a decent team)
4. Rodgers/Rivers/Vick/lots of guys. I can't really pick any of them after those 3.

tony hipchest
01-16-2011, 01:45 AM
waht a rediculous thread.

who the hell needs "tiers" to rank 1-7?


brady and manning's careers speak for themselves.

my bias says ben is 3rd.

if i had to select anyone besides him, i would want a. rogers.

d. brees #s speak for themselves.

brett favre.


BRETT FAVRE.



:shout:- BRETT FAVRE!!!!

(FWIW i think a. rogers is what flacco, rivers, vick, ryan will always hope to to be)

MasterOfPuppets
01-16-2011, 01:49 AM
The Patriots do have a great system. There's no doubt that Brady benefits from great coaching and players who fit.

However, the Matt Cassel sample season is really not very damning of Brady. Cassel took over an offense that was virtually unchanged and had just shattered every record in the book with Brady. They went from a team that scored at an almost impossible level to a very good offense that, by comparison, wasn't even close statistically to this year's team. They scored over 10 ppg less from '07 to '08.

The Pats also had the AFC West and NFC West that year. Against playoff-bound teams, the Patriots had an average margin of victory of 21 points in '07, and an average margin of loss of 18 points in '08, along with five fewer wins. Add to that the fact that Cassel put together a tremendous season with the Chiefs.

But what Brady has done is pretty remarkable. Peyton Manning would have to win his next 60 games to match Brady's winning pct, and Manning is a damn good QB himself. It would be hard to argue that you can just plug someone into this system and get the same, or similar, results. Belichick made him the highest paid player in the league for a reason... and don't think Belichick would make this decision based on reputation rather than the true value of the player.

Perhaps you could argue that Cassel's first year was similar to Brady's first year, although, again, Brady was throwing to guys like Troy Brown and David Patten, while Cassel was throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker. But Brady has eclipsed his production in those first few years by a pretty significant, statistically historic margin.
well i certainly would expect a veteran qb who has been in the system for years to play at a higher level then a guy making his first nfl start ...:doh:the point is , a no name like matt cassel was able to step in and win 11 games and look good enough for another team to back the money truck up to him. :noidea:

lionslicer
01-16-2011, 01:55 AM
waht a rediculous thread.

who the hell needs "tiers" to rank 1-7?


brady and manning's careers speak for themselves.

my bias says ben is 3rd.

if i had to select anyone besides him, i would want a. rogers.

d. brees #s speak for themselves.

brett favre.


BRETT FAVRE.



:shout:- BRETT FAVRE!!!!

Why isn't Bredd Favre on this list, he hasn't officially retired yet, and even if he had, he will always be number one!

"They should retire the number 4, not just from football, but from all the numbers, and replace it with Favre" - John Madden

Third Rail
01-16-2011, 01:57 AM
This is a tough call. I want to rank Ben above Rodgers since he beat him last year (with a worse Steelers team and a BETTER Packers team) but last year is last year. Brees was the top QB in the league then; not so much this year. After today's performance, Ben is certainly a Top 3 QB but then Rodgers had to go out and dominate the shit out of the Falcons, so I must give credit where credit is due, even if it's only by a hair.

1. Brady (I hate him but until someone knocks him out, the bastard is the best)
2. Rodgers
3. Roethlisberger
4. Peyton Manning
5. Drew Brees

Now, don't get me wrong, Ben is still my favorite QB and if he wins his next two games, then he'll overtake both Brady and Rodgers in my book. Because I have a pretty strong feeling that those are the guys he's going to be facing.

MattsMe
01-16-2011, 01:57 AM
1. Brett Favre's penis
2. Tom Brady's proctologist
3. The Roethlis-burger from Peppi's. YUM.
4. Aaron Rogers' beard.
5. Drew Brees's birthmark.
6. Michael Vick's parole officer.
7. Chuck Norris

What was this thread about again?

Third Rail
01-16-2011, 02:01 AM
LOL

You forgot:
8. The stick up Roger Goodell's ass

tony hipchest
01-16-2011, 02:03 AM
The Patriots do have a great system. There's no doubt that Brady benefits from great coaching and players who fit.

However, the Matt Cassel sample season is really not very damning of Brady. Cassel took over an offense that was virtually unchanged and had just shattered every record in the book with Brady. They went from a team that scored at an almost impossible level to a very good offense that, by comparison, wasn't even close statistically to this year's team. They scored over 10 ppg less from '07 to '08.

The Pats also had the AFC West and NFC West that year. Against playoff-bound teams, the Patriots had an average margin of victory of 21 points in '07, and an average margin of loss of 18 points in '08, along with five fewer wins. Add to that the fact that Cassel put together a tremendous season with the Chiefs.

But what Brady has done is pretty remarkable. Peyton Manning would have to win his next 60 games to match Brady's winning pct, and Manning is a damn good QB himself. It would be hard to argue that you can just plug someone into this system and get the same, or similar, results. Belichick made him the highest paid player in the league for a reason... and don't think Belichick would make this decision based on reputation rather than the true value of the player.

Perhaps you could argue that Cassel's first year was similar to Brady's first year, although, again, Brady was throwing to guys like Troy Brown and David Patten, while Cassel was throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker. But Brady has eclipsed his production in those first few years by a pretty significant, statistically historic margin.are you suggesting belichick couldnt do the same thing with manning, that he has done with brady?

:sofunny:

:popcorn:

if not, he isnt half the coach everyone perceives him to be.

MACH1
01-16-2011, 02:16 AM
are you suggesting belichick couldnt do the same thing with manning, that he has done with brady?

:sofunny:

:popcorn:

if not, he isnt half the coach everyone perceives him to be.

http://www.bodyartexpo.com/images/camcorder.jpg

Hey, with todays tech he could make any qb look good.

pitt0wns
01-16-2011, 02:18 AM
1. Brady
2. Big Ben
3. Rodgers

Rodgers has no rings or anything yet

SteelKnight
01-16-2011, 03:49 AM
This is a really really tough question to answer considering no one else plays the game the way Ben does. Its hard to argue with SteelKnights list but I would have him equal to Rodgers.

I do have him equal. I have those for as a tie for 2nd place.


Rodgers is unbelievable. If you put him against any quarterback, in terms of just pure quarterbacking, I might even put him over Brady right now.

Too many Manning excuses.


What impressed me about rogers is his mobility and his throwing perfect passes while running. Ben has had the right foot issue decreasing his mobility. maybe next year he will be a little more mobile...but he does move around enough.

As far as Manning, I don't know who pouts more him or Tom Coughlin. They both always have a whinny face on and it gets old.

Yeah...Both Manning and Brees took a step down this year. I used to have the "Big 3" with Ben in Tier 2 but now I feel Ben and Aaron are equal to those 2.

If you're looking at the career's Ben is in front of Aaron easily (bling vs no bling), but if we're talking this season, Aaron is just playing out of his mind the last 2 weeks, and has an outstanding year. I might even put him number 1 overall, at least until we see what Brady does to the Jets.

Interesting. If Ben can get his third bling, maybe I'll let him get #2 alone.

SteelKnight
01-16-2011, 03:56 AM
1. Brett Favre's penis
2. Tom Brady's proctologist
3. The Roethlis-burger from Peppi's. YUM.
4. Aaron Rogers' beard.
5. Drew Brees's birthmark.
6. Michael Vick's parole officer.
7. Chuck Norris

What was this thread about again?

Bret Farve #1...hell no. The reason he has a lot of those records is because he played so long. I don't like him. He is undisciplined and not as good at improvising as Ben and Rogers. He's not as good a pocket QB as Brady.

Fire Arians
01-16-2011, 04:04 AM
"great players aren't always great, they're just great when they have to be"


that's what ben is. i'd much rather have a player like that than a player who's good most of the time but never when it counts (*cough* manning)

plenewken
01-16-2011, 07:12 AM
Has Ben's performance changed your rankings of QBs. Give your top 7, where Ben fits and use Tiers.

Here's mine:

Tier 1
1. Tom Brady -Tom Terrific is the best in the NFL right now.

Tier 2
2. Aaron Rogers -Starting to look like Tom but he caves sometimes with pressure
2. Ben Roethlisberger -so money in the clutch. Getting rid of the ball quicker.
2. Drew Brees -Very accurate but not always as clutch as Brady or Ben and has been making some questionable decisions lately
2. Peyton Manning -still one of the best but human
6. Michael Vick -amazing year but occasionally still poor decisions. Not always clutch

Tier 3
7. Phillip Rivers -great QB. He just misses Tier 2 due to his lack of ability to take over games sometimes. Excellent numbers but not always clutch.

Yes...I have a 4 way tie for 2nd in Tier 2. Phillip Rivers puts up great numbers but he is not a guy you fear like the other guys in Tier 2.

Whoever watched Atlanta-Packers last night saw what a consistent, accurate and mobile QB can do. The sloppy 1st half by Ben didn't cut it with me, guys.
Yes Ben did throw a couple of nice passes in the 2nd half, especially the one where Brown MADE the play but he also underthrew and overthrew several times and that's not what a superstar $100M QB is supposed to do in key games.

He got a B from me, not an A.

On a side note, once again, the Defense won a critical game and until Ben and the offense beat a strong team, I'll continue to consider him an excellent QB but not a great one.

plenewken
01-16-2011, 07:21 AM
Strictly from a winning point of view?

1. Brady (but only with an amazing offensive line)
2. Ben
3. Manning (with a decent team)
4. Rodgers/Rivers/Vick/lots of guys. I can't really pick any of them after those 3.

The winning point of view doesn't take into consideration the fact that 80% of the time, the Steelers Defense wins the games, not Ben and the offense.
Yesterday's game was an other prime example.

bradyfan12
01-16-2011, 10:04 AM
are you suggesting belichick couldnt do the same thing with manning, that he has done with brady?

:sofunny:

:popcorn:

if not, he isnt half the coach everyone perceives him to be.

I don't know. My eyes tell me that Manning would be good in the Pats system as well. However, many people talk about Manning's intelligence being his best asset. I agree that Manning is extremely smart, but I don't think he is leaps and bounds better at reading a defense than Brady. Bottom line is, if you have a great coach like Belichick, and everyone seems to knock Brady because Belichick is so smart, then how would Manning make the offense that much better? He would either audible out of Bill's plays, or he would run it just like Brady does.

I can tell you that Brady is a more ideal quarterback for New England for several reasons. First of all, I'm not sure where the notion of Manning's great arm came from. Brady throws a much tighter spiral and has superior arm strength. It isn't that close. This matters a lot in cold, windy conditions that Brady has to deal with frequently and Manning does not. Check out Brady's cold weather stats; they are insane. Manning struggles outside of ideal conditions.

Second, anyone who is being objective knows that Brady handles big-game pressure better than Manning, who tends to either overanalyze, or just fold. 9-10 career playoff record? It's just obvious from the body language that Brady loves the big stage, while Manning does not.

How would Manning be in the Pats system? My guess is pretty darn good, but it's hard to imagine someone being a better fit than Brady.

TRH
01-16-2011, 10:07 AM
Rogers has been doing very well as of late...BUT
Who else is sick of hearing about him? I've had the TV on since 6 a.m. this morning while i do various things and its been Rogers, Rogers, Rogers, Rogers, Rogers. There were TWO games yesterday right?
Its been about 80 % Packs/Falcons discussions and about 20% Steelers/Ravens discussion at least. One was an uninteresting blowout and the other was one of the best (be it ugly...) games of the year.
another media head-shaker.

lionslicer
01-16-2011, 12:35 PM
The point of playing is to win. Does Manning win when it matters? No. 19 games in the playoffs; 10 wins. Does BR? If he wins next week, he's equaled Manning's playoff wins- with only two losses.

Too many Manning excuses. Brees had 22 INTs. Just not good, no matter how you look at it.
.

I hope you aren't one of those Patriot fans who thinks Manning is one of the worst quarterbacks in the game. Brady has like 4 or 5 whifs in the playoffs where he played terrible, or when he got the chance to win the game he could lead his team to a game winning or game tying drive. Brady hasn't been successful in the playoffs since 2004.

I still think Brady is the best quarterback in the game today though, he scares me when I watch him. Every time he drops back is a potential to be a touchdown or a long completion, interceptions and incompletions aren't in this guys vocabulary.

MattsMe
01-16-2011, 12:43 PM
Bret Farve #1...hell no. The reason he has a lot of those records is because he played so long. I don't like him. He is undisciplined and not as good at improvising as Ben and Rogers. He's not as good a pocket QB as Brady.

Wow. Just wow.

My post was obvious humor. And as one of our mods previously pointed out, that's the worst kind of humor to have go over your head.

Oh wait, I just had a random thought. I think I'll go create a thread about it! :sofunny:

Steelboy84
01-16-2011, 01:26 PM
He's still #4 for me.

Manning

Brady

Brees

Ben

tanda10506
01-16-2011, 01:35 PM
Brees is really good but I think he gets to much credit lately. I'm not a Packer fan, but I'm really starting to like Rodgers. That being said he's only one 2 playoff games so I don't see him stacking up with Ben or Brady yet. I know superbowls aren't everything, but you at least have to win one to stack up with Brady, Ben and Manning. I still say Brady is #1 and Ben is #2 with Peyton a close #3, only because of Ben's extra ring and better playoff performance.


As I mentioned in my first post here, comparing Brady and Roethlisberger is useless. Both are perfect for their offenses but not the other's. I'll just put Brady number one since he just played one of the best seasons I've seen.

Maybe the most rational statement made by a Patriots fan!
One thing though bradyfan, you said you don't like Ben because of "off field antics". There's no proof on anything Ben did. But don't forget Brady had a kid with a chick and pretty much through money at the situation to make it go away. The proof is the kid.

SteelKnight
01-16-2011, 01:44 PM
Wow. Just wow.

My post was obvious humor. And as one of our mods previously pointed out, that's the worst kind of humor to have go over your head.

Oh wait, I just had a random thought. I think I'll go create a thread about it! :sofunny:

I saw the attempt at humor with the crude nonsense but other than Favre, the rest of the list seemed to have a reasonable order. I thought you were multitasking.

Some people have attachment to their favorite players so one can't assume much.

About the "over head" nonsense, all it says is your humor and what makes your friends laugh is different than mine.

Superbowl
01-16-2011, 01:48 PM
Has Ben's performance changed your rankings of QBs. Give your top 7, where Ben fits and use Tiers.

Here's mine:

Tier 1
1. Tom Brady -Tom Terrific is the best in the NFL right now.

Tier 2
2. Aaron Rogers -Starting to look like Tom but he caves sometimes with pressure
2. Ben Roethlisberger -so money in the clutch. Getting rid of the ball quicker.
2. Drew Brees -Very accurate but not always as clutch as Brady or Ben and has been making some questionable decisions lately
2. Peyton Manning -still one of the best but human
6. Michael Vick -amazing year but occasionally still poor decisions. Not always clutch

Tier 3
7. Phillip Rivers -great QB. He just misses Tier 2 due to his lack of ability to take over games sometimes. Excellent numbers but not always clutch.

Yes...I have a 4 way tie for 2nd in Tier 2. Phillip Rivers puts up great numbers but he is not a guy you fear like the other guys in Tier 2.

Pretty much agree with what you have but with Phillip or at 5 you need Atlanta's BC quarterback too

SteelKnight
01-16-2011, 02:31 PM
waht a rediculous thread.

who the hell needs "tiers" to rank 1-7?



I agree. You should boycott all the OPs threads from now on. :sofunny::banging:

SteelKnight
01-16-2011, 02:38 PM
Pretty much agree with what you have but with Phillip or at 5 you need Atlanta's BC quarterback too

Where did you have Phillips? The reason I had to put him in a different tier is because he does not create the same fear that the tier 2 QBs create for teams. Sure you know over the season he will have good numbers but...he's not the other's level yet IMO.

About Ryan, you saw how flustered he was yesterday. He would be in my top 10 though.

PhantomJB93
01-16-2011, 02:45 PM
I can't bring myself to put him above Manning or Brees just yet. In a playoff game specifically maybe but in overall QB rankings in general no.

Also Rodgers to me, especially after yesterday, is a more accurate Ben. Just about everything Ben brings to the table Rodgers can do, except Rodgers also puts up the elite numbers on a consistent basis and is a little bit more accurate. Rodgers also showed to me he can do it on the postseason, so I can't give Ben that argumnent either.

So right now, I still have Ben at 5.

1. Brady
2. Brees
3. Manning
4. Rodgers
5. Roethlisberger

I think after next year I might bring myself to put him above Manning, seeing as Peyton's dominance seems to finally be coming to an end. But for right now he still gets the edge.

madtowndrunkard
01-16-2011, 02:51 PM
Tier 1

#1 Brady
#2 Manning

Tier 2
#3 Breese
#4 Rogers
#5 Ben
#6 Rivers


I look at it this way.... Put Ben on a team w/ a mediocre defense and what would you get? I'd say possibly a losing season w/ very little chance of making the playoffs. 2nd half of last year was a pretty good example of what I'm talking about.

Put Manning, Brady, Brees, and Rogers on a team with a mediocre defense and they all are still playoff contenders.

Take away our running game and what do you get with Ben? Brady, Manning, and Rogers have all shown lack of a running game will not stop them from scoring points. I think Ben would struggle mightily if he had no running game.

That said Ben has the ability to play at a superman level at times. Ben's best is every bit as good as any QB in the league. Problem is we don't always get Ben's best. It usually shows up late in the game when things are looking grim for the Steelers. To say Ben is in a different type of offense doesn't fly with me. Arians gives Ben plenty of opportunity to air it out every week. Ben also has some pretty damn good WR's to throw to.

Anyone saying Ben is the 2nd best QB in the league is completely blinded by their black and gold sun glasses.

Superbowl
01-16-2011, 03:02 PM
Where did you have Phillips? The reason I had to put him in a different tier is because he does not create the same fear that the tier 2 QBs create for teams. Sure you know over the season he will have good numbers but...he's not the other's level yet IMO.

About Ryan, you saw how flustered he was yesterday. He would be in my top 10 though.

Ryan had 7 balls dropped in the first half it seemed. For Playoffs, Ben is # 3. Phillips where you had him works for me.

SteelKnight
01-16-2011, 05:28 PM
So right now, I still have Ben at 5.

1. Brady
2. Brees
3. Manning
4. Rodgers
5. Roethlisberger

I think after next year I might bring myself to put him above Manning, seeing as Peyton's dominance seems to finally be coming to an end. But for right now he still gets the edge.

Can't argue with that reasoning. It sounds reasonable. My thing is Manning and Brees both looked mortal this year so it is not that I elevated Ben to their tier but rather, those 2 dropped to Ben's tier. I truly cant say for sure that Manning and Brees are better QBs than Ben. They are more accurate but they get pressured and occasionally make poor decisions and neither is as great at escaping pressure or doing a closing drive as Ben.



Tier 1


I look at it this way.... Put Ben on a team w/ a mediocre defense and what would you get? I'd say possibly a losing season w/ very little chance of making the playoffs. 2nd half of last year was a pretty good example of what I'm talking about.

Put Manning, Brady, Brees, and Rogers on a team with a mediocre defense and they all are still playoff contenders.

Take away our running game and what do you get with Ben? Brady, Manning, and Rogers have all shown lack of a running game will not stop them from scoring points. I think Ben would struggle mightily if he had no running game.


Anyone saying Ben is the 2nd best QB in the league is completely blinded by their black and gold sun glasses.

Good point with the running but I'm serious when I say Ben would be my second choice for QB for the Steelers. I like having a closer. See my above comments on manning and Brees. After Brady and Ben, Rogers might actually be my 3rd choice for the Steelers.

It's hard for me to fully pick between the tier 2 QBs...each has strengths and weaknesses. All the ones I have tied for 2nd would be excellent Franchise QBs tht make their teams instant contenders.

I do think that Ben could go to an team and make that team an instant playoff contender.

lionslicer
01-16-2011, 06:50 PM
Bret Farve #1...hell no. The reason he has a lot of those records is because he played so long. I don't like him. He is undisciplined and not as good at improvising as Ben and Rogers. He's not as good a pocket QB as Brady.

So 3 straight MVP awards when he was in his 20's isn't a great accomplishment? Marino only has all the records because he played so long too. Favre only played like 3 years longer.

SteelKnight
01-16-2011, 06:52 PM
So 3 straight MVP awards when he was in his 20's isn't a great accomplishment? Marino only has all the records because he played so long too. Favre only played like 3 years longer.

Favre has always been a loose cannon. i admire Aaron Rogers more and he hasn't even done anything yet.

lionslicer
01-16-2011, 06:54 PM
Favre has always been a loose cannon. i admire Aaron Rogers more and he hasn't even done anything yet.

You're like the anti John Madden.

MasterOfPuppets
01-16-2011, 06:56 PM
and there's where i disagree , if a nobody like matt freakin cassel can thrive in that offense , i'm pretty sure ben can play in belechiks dink and dunk offense. if you look up the stats , cassels 1 year looks almost identical to brady's first 4 years.
could brady thrive in bens offensive environment ? hell no !!! brady folds like a cheap tent when he gets pressured and hit.
i rest my case ....:coffee:

Fire Arians
01-16-2011, 06:56 PM
ben engineered a comeback against a better defense! is he now #1? ;)

oh wait, brady's not even in the playoffs any more, so he's unranked now

Atlanta Dan
01-16-2011, 07:30 PM
Don Banks of SI.com is on Ben's bandwagon

Pressure? What pressure? Roethlisberger added to a legacy of postseason success that's approaching Hall of Fame caliber,...

Roethlisberger proved once again that he deserves mention on the short list of the game's best postseason quarterbacks of any era. The signature moment of his lastest playoff masterpiece was that 58-yard bomb to Antonio Brown on third-and-19 inside of the game's final two minutes, a play that he suggested and then executed to perfection, essentially winning the game and sending the Steelers to their fourth AFC title game in the past seven years.

And he also takes a drive by shot to the reputation of Flacco:thumbsup:

Flacco must live with the realization that he can't beat Baltimore's biggest rivals, the Roethlisberger-led Steelers, when it really matters (2-6 against Pittsburgh, 0-6 against Big Ben).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/01/16/snap.judgments/index.html?eref=sihp

CargoJon
01-16-2011, 07:50 PM
Has Ben's performance changed your rankings of QBs. Give your top 7, where Ben fits and use Tiers.

Here's mine:

Tier 1
1. Tom Brady -Tom Terrific is the best in the NFL right now.

Tier 2
2. Aaron Rogers -Starting to look like Tom but he caves sometimes with pressure
2. Ben Roethlisberger -so money in the clutch. Getting rid of the ball quicker.
2. Drew Brees -Very accurate but not always as clutch as Brady or Ben and has been making some questionable decisions lately
2. Peyton Manning -still one of the best but human
6. Michael Vick -amazing year but occasionally still poor decisions. Not always clutch

Tier 3
7. Phillip Rivers -great QB. He just misses Tier 2 due to his lack of ability to take over games sometimes. Excellent numbers but not always clutch.

Yes...I have a 4 way tie for 2nd in Tier 2. Phillip Rivers puts up great numbers but he is not a guy you fear like the other guys in Tier 2.

Tier 1
Brady / Manning / Brees
Put them in whatever order you want. All three will choke, all three will work miracles. For the last 5 years or so they've been the best and all have won rings.

Tier 2
Rogers - could move up to Tier 1 with a SB win and/or a few more years of consistency
Ben - Could argue for Tier 1 but I'm trying to keep my homer glasses off.

Tier 3
Vick
Rivers
These two will put on clinics in the regular season but haven't gotten the art of the playoffs down yet.

caplovestroyp43
01-16-2011, 08:02 PM
Don Banks of SI.com is on Ben's bandwagon

Pressure? What pressure? Roethlisberger added to a legacy of postseason success that's approaching Hall of Fame caliber,...

Roethlisberger proved once again that he deserves mention on the short list of the game's best postseason quarterbacks of any era. The signature moment of his lastest playoff masterpiece was that 58-yard bomb to Antonio Brown on third-and-19 inside of the game's final two minutes, a play that he suggested and then executed to perfection, essentially winning the game and sending the Steelers to their fourth AFC title game in the past seven years.

And he also takes a drive by shot to the reputation of Flacco:thumbsup:

Flacco must live with the realization that he can't beat Baltimore's biggest rivals, the Roethlisberger-led Steelers, when it really matters (2-6 against Pittsburgh, 0-6 against Big Ben).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/01/16/snap.judgments/index.html?eref=sihp

Ahhhh doesn't that have a WONDERFUL ring to it??? TOTALLY!! :thumbsup:

jjpro11
01-16-2011, 08:06 PM
if Ben wins one more ring he's a lock for the HOF.

ben2hines=6
01-16-2011, 08:07 PM
tier 1) brady and ben...hands down the best qb's in the business. stop looking at fantasy stats and start looking at wins

Tier 2) brees/ manning/ rodgers....your a clown if u think rodgers is better than ben. ben has just as many super bolws as rodgers has playoff wins....manning is one of the worst playoff qb's ever and brees threw over 20int's this year

tier 3) rivers...with a clutch kicker could have possibly won a super bowl by now

MattsMe
01-16-2011, 08:12 PM
stop looking at fantasy stats and start looking at wins

:thumbsup:

As for stats that actually matter, (ypa, etc.) Ben is right up there with the best of all time.

lionslicer
01-16-2011, 08:17 PM
:thumbsup:

As for stats that actually matter, (ypa, etc.) Ben is right up there with the best of all time.

But yards, touchdowns and completions, he's at the bottom. Those are really what people look at, they don't focus on the detailed stats like QB rating, yards per atempt etc. the stats Ben leads in

MattsMe
01-16-2011, 10:38 PM
But yards, touchdowns and completions, he's at the bottom. Those are really what people look at, they don't focus on the detailed stats like QB rating, yards per atempt etc. the stats Ben leads in

Unfortunately you're right.


It seems most fans these days go gaga over fantasy stats that have very little correlation to winning. I really think some of them wouldn't care if we got knocked out of the first round of the playoffs every year, as long as Ben threw for 4,000 yards and 30 touchdowns. Then using their logic, they could say Ben was the best in the league. Yards per attempt and points per yard are what matters.

The most efficient quarterback wins way more often than the one who throws for the most yards. The numbers don't lie. And I'm pretty sure the goal of a quarterback is to win first, and throw for a million yards second. But hey, to each their own. That's what threads like this are for, to give people who prefer tiers and fantasy numbers over winning football games a place to express themselves.

TOOLofSTEEL
01-16-2011, 11:06 PM
Aaron Rodgers is my favorite QB not named Ben. Hasn't proven to be very clutch thus far. But he's good at moving around and evading sacks. Considering his offensive line has generally resembled ours in 2008. I'd say this guy can be a mammoth of a QB.

No other QB in the league not named Ben Roethlisberger I concern myself with. Other than the usual suspects that we have to deal with on playoff runs.

TwoJacks
01-16-2011, 11:07 PM
Excellent quote from a Ratbird blogger at the Sun (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2011/01/five_things_we_learned_in_the_ravens_3124_loss.htm l)bemoaning Flacco's failings:

"Quarterback is a poise position, a pressure position, not a numbers position."

lionslicer
01-16-2011, 11:12 PM
Unfortunately you're right.


It seems most fans these days go gaga over fantasy stats that have very little correlation to winning. I really think some of them wouldn't care if we got knocked out of the first round of the playoffs every year, as long as Ben threw for 4,000 yards and 30 touchdowns. Then using their logic, they could say Ben was the best in the league. Yards per attempt and points per yard are what matters.

The most efficient quarterback wins way more often than the one who throws for the most yards. The numbers don't lie. And I'm pretty sure the goal of a quarterback is to win first, and throw for a million yards second. But hey, to each their own. That's what threads like this are for, to give people who prefer tiers and fantasy numbers over winning football games a place to express themselves.

Look in the past, Joe Montana and John Elway won many more games than big stat quarterbacks like Marino and Dan Fouts. Not saying Marino and Fouts weren't amazing quarterbacks, but Joe and John win games, and thats what counts.

Fire Arians
01-16-2011, 11:24 PM
Look in the past, Joe Montana and John Elway won many more games than big stat quarterbacks like Marino and Dan Fouts. Not saying Marino and Fouts weren't amazing quarterbacks, but Joe and John win games, and thats what counts.

truth. brady was once a winning qb with decent (but not great) stats. as soon as he started chasing records they haven't won a championship.

roethlisberger will probably never win an NFL mvp award or become the #1 yardage/td's passer, but as long as we win, I could care less.

SteelKnight
01-16-2011, 11:48 PM
Tier 1
Brady / Manning / Brees
Put them in whatever order you want. All three will choke, all three will work miracles. For the last 5 years or so they've been the best and all have won rings.

Tier 2
Rogers - could move up to Tier 1 with a SB win and/or a few more years of consistency
Ben - Could argue for Tier 1 but I'm trying to keep my homer glasses off.

Tier 3
Vick
Rivers
These two will put on clinics in the regular season but haven't gotten the art of the playoffs down yet.

For a long time mine looked like that and I had Ben and Rogers in Tier 2 but I can't really say right now that Brees and manning are better than Ben and Rogers. They are more accurate but both make some mental errors too. Neither is as mobile as Rogers or a healthy Ben (Ben is not a "scambler" but he is certainly mobile when his R foot isn't taped up). Rogers is very accurate on the run and Ben is a better closer, can shake off tackles and can extend plays.

SteelKnight
01-16-2011, 11:54 PM
tier 1) brady and ben...hands down the best qb's in the business. stop looking at fantasy stats and start looking at wins

Tier 2) brees/ manning/ rodgers....your a clown if u think rodgers is better than ben. ben has just as many super bolws as rodgers has playoff wins....manning is one of the worst playoff qb's ever and brees threw over 20int's this year

tier 3) rivers...with a clutch kicker could have possibly won a super bowl by now

Ben certainly does win. He is taking us to his 4th AFC championship game in 7 seasons (more than half). He is 7-2 in the playoffs.

Still Rogers play..,especially his recent mobility (he used to stay in the pocket a bit more) and his accuracy while running puts them in the same tier for me.

Still I agree. If starting a team, Ben would be my second choice...then probably Rogers...then probably Brees...then probably Manning (he loses points for the constant pouty face for me...acting like a spoiled child...grow up).

SteelKnight
01-16-2011, 11:58 PM
Unfortunately you're right.


It seems most fans these days go gaga over fantasy stats that have very little correlation to winning. I really think some of them wouldn't care if we got knocked out of the first round of the playoffs every year, as long as Ben threw for 4,000 yards and 30 touchdowns. Then using their logic, they could say Ben was the best in the league. Yards per attempt and points per yard are what matters.

The most efficient quarterback wins way more often than the one who throws for the most yards. The numbers don't lie. And I'm pretty sure the goal of a quarterback is to win first, and throw for a million yards second. But hey, to each their own. That's what threads like this are for, to give people who prefer tiers and fantasy numbers over winning football games a place to express themselves.

...and to give people who come to conclusions like this a chance to awe us...:sofunny:

lionslicer
01-16-2011, 11:58 PM
Ben certainly does win. He is taking us to his 4th AFC championship game in 7 seasons (more than half). He is 7-2 in the playoffs.

Still Rogers play..,especially his recent mobility (he used to stay in the pocket a bit more) and his accuracy while running puts them in the same tier for me.

Still I agree. If starting a team, Ben would be my second choice...then probably Rogers...then probably Brees...then probably Manning (he loses points for the constant pouty face for me...acting like a spoiled child...grow up).

If Rogers wins against the Bears in like a last minute drive, I'll agree he's in the same level has Ben and Brady. He has played outstandingly, but we don't know yet if he's going to be a big stat quarterback and fail in the playoffs, or pull through in the playoffs also.

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 12:02 AM
If Rogers wins against the Bears in like a last minute drive, I'll agree he's in the same level has Ben and Brady. He has played outstandingly, but we don't know yet if he's going to be a big stat quarterback and fail in the playoffs, or pull through in the playoffs also.

I agree he hasn't shown he can mount multiple comebacks and be clutch. That's what we are all waiting for. If he does that, he might rise to Brady's level.

steelerjim58
01-17-2011, 12:14 AM
Tier 1

#1 Brady
#2 Manning

Tier 2
#3 Breese
#4 Rogers
#5 Ben
#6 Rivers


I look at it this way.... Put Ben on a team w/ a mediocre defense and what would you get? I'd say possibly a losing season w/ very little chance of making the playoffs. 2nd half of last year was a pretty good example of what I'm talking about.

Put Manning, Brady, Brees, and Rogers on a team with a mediocre defense and they all are still playoff contenders.

Take away our running game and what do you get with Ben? Brady, Manning, and Rogers have all shown lack of a running game will not stop them from scoring points. I think Ben would struggle mightily if he had no running game.

That said Ben has the ability to play at a superman level at times. Ben's best is every bit as good as any QB in the league. Problem is we don't always get Ben's best. It usually shows up late in the game when things are looking grim for the Steelers. To say Ben is in a different type of offense doesn't fly with me. Arians gives Ben plenty of opportunity to air it out every week. Ben also has some pretty damn good WR's to throw to.

Anyone saying Ben is the 2nd best QB in the league is completely blinded by their black and gold sun glasses.

We have seen what Ben would do without a running game. Do you honestly think the running game has been any more than mediocre the last 3-4 years. Also, how would Manning and brady do working behind the offensive line we have?

OX1947
01-17-2011, 12:49 AM
Big Ben could play Manning and Brady role. Where he can sit back and throw TDs without much pressure during the regular season. NEITHER can play Big Ben's game. If you need proof, watch the jet games the last two weeks. Oh, and another thing, you can break Big Ben's nose, break his foot, slam him to the ground, and he will get back up and throw a 58 yard bomb like it was nothing in a pressure moment. The guy's mental capacity for playing throw anything is unmatched.

Regardless if he is better then Brady or manning, if he wins two more games, he will have a 11-2 playoff record and 3 Super Bowl titles. What defines a great QB? Super Bowl's. Montana wasn't the greatest because he had good stats, he was the greatest because he won super bowl's.

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 01:16 AM
What defines a great QB? Super Bowl's. Montana wasn't the greatest because he had good stats, he was the greatest because he won super bowl's.

Yeah...SB has a lot to do with it but it is also coming through when the team needs you.

If you look back, Montana's stats were pretty good (Rice helped). Basically I think there is a basic level of stats you need to be able to produce to be considered good for the position. If you can't produce the basic stats then you might be a game manager and the team might be wining despite you.

Yards insn't as important as TDs and TD/INT ratio but it helps. It sort of depends how your OC was trying to use you. All of the QBs we are talking about have the basic stats to be considered great...so I agree to go to the next level it would be SBs.

For example, all of the top 19 QBs stat wise (except Jason Cambell who has dismal TDs) have stats good enough to be considered decent where wins and SBs would define them but go lower and we might be dealing with some Fluke managers.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2010&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go

FanSince72
01-17-2011, 01:32 AM
I look at it this way.... Put Ben on a team w/ a mediocre defense and what would you get? I'd say possibly a losing season w/ very little chance of making the playoffs. 2nd half of last year was a pretty good example of what I'm talking about.

Put Manning, Brady, Brees, and Rogers on a team with a mediocre defense and they all are still playoff contenders.

I might agree with you on Rogers and possibly Brees, but both Manning and Brady are the products of great systems. If you take away that system and place them into a position of having to make things happen, they're fish out of water.

With Rogers, Ben and Brees, you have QB's who can work with a system but don't need one and they don't need everything to work perfectly for them to be successful. This is especially true with Ben because I actually believe that he prefers chaos over predictability and tends to do his best work just as the wheels seem to be falling off.

lionslicer
01-17-2011, 01:43 AM
Superbowls don't define a great quarterback, if that was true Dan Fouts and Marino would never be considered great quarterbacks.
Its a combination of skill, composure and winning. Jim McMahon won 2 superbowls, as a starter and backup, but he's not a Hall of Fame quarterback, or even a great quarterback.

Marino, Fouts, Kosar, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Fran Tarkenton, all amazing quarterbacks, all had amazing comeback victories, not only in the regular season, but in the playoffs, but they never won a superbowl.

plenewken
01-17-2011, 05:48 AM
................your a clown if u think rodgers is better than ben. ben has just as many super bolws as rodgers has playoff wins....

Since when more titles means better player? Football is not boxing, it's a team sport.

As he's playing now, Rodgers is definitely a better QB than Ben. He's more consistent, more accurate and more mobile and take far less hits. These are skills and this is what you consider when you look for "better". If Rodgers continues to play at this level, he'll be considered one of the very best QBs regardless of the number of titles.

Yes, Ben can still play with a 300lbs DL player on his @ss, so what? It's spectacular (not pretty though) and that''s about it. Who's gonna consider it a must have for a QB? I say it shouldn't happen in the first place cause the risk/reward ratio isn't worth it.

Ben's might be one concussion away from playing golf full-time,.keep this in mind.

Curtain_of_Steel
01-17-2011, 07:40 AM
Rivers can not crack the top 5. His numbers are always playing from behind, and falsely inflated to a point. Not to mention a complete whiner, not winner, but whiner, lol.

Could Brady survive in the Steelers offensive environment? Honestly, behind that Oline, besides Ben, who could handle the constant hits he gets?lol Its admirable Ben takes it without saying, its time to man up, I need time. lol
Manning(S) and Brady would walk off the field behind that pile of swiss cheese lol Pouncey can't block everyone.

Still even though Brady played absolutely was bad yesterday, I would still list Brady 1, Ben 2.

But if I'm starting a team today, I take Ben and thats not a homer pick. Get the 3rd Ring and Ben moves to the top of the list, period. My gut says to take him now, but get me to the SB in 2 weeks and 6 days. Than I'll give it to you.

caseyviator
01-17-2011, 07:58 AM
Yeah his 24 to 5 touchdown to interception ratio this year has nothing to do with he's a decent quarterback.

He's a system quarterback like Brady, but did the system build Brady or did Brady build the system. Remember, Bellichicks first year with the Patriots and having Bledso at quarterback, he didn't have a good year, team was 5-11, with Brady next season, they won the superbowl. Almost identical offensive players and coaches. Brady was the only big change, he made it work.

Back to the topic.. I really don't know, like I think Rogers is just a better quarterback right now, but Ben shows that he can win games in the playoffs, which is more important than just being a good quarterback (ask peyton manning). Rogers won against the Falcons, but they just didn't show up to play, I'll be interested to see how he plays when his team is down by 4 in the playoffs and he has to drive 80 yards in 2 minutes, touchdown winning the game. Unless he does that, I guess Ben has the right to be above him.

THAT YEAR I THINK THEY SWITCHED TO BRADY WEN THEY WERE ALREADY IN THE PLAYOFFS.

CargoJon
01-17-2011, 08:52 AM
For a long time mine looked like that and I had Ben and Rogers in Tier 2 but I can't really say right now that Brees and manning are better than Ben and Rogers. They are more accurate but both make some mental errors too. Neither is as mobile as Rogers or a healthy Ben (Ben is not a "scambler" but he is certainly mobile when his R foot isn't taped up). Rogers is very accurate on the run and Ben is a better closer, can shake off tackles and can extend plays.

Like I said, I could easily put Ben in Tier I as well. Ben does his share of choke/bonehead plays as well from time to time.

Rogers is simply Tier 2 until he wins a ring.

plenewken
01-17-2011, 08:59 AM
Rogers is simply Tier 2 until he wins a ring.

Same for Marino and Kelly? :noidea:

CargoJon
01-17-2011, 09:29 AM
Same for Marino and Kelly? :noidea:

Marino played how many years in the league? Kelly went to how many SB's?

Rogers won 2 playoff games and has started for I believe 3 years in the league. Let's give him just a bit more time before, as Dennis Green put it, "crowning his ass".

biggtee
01-17-2011, 09:46 AM
NO.1 i will tell you why because brady manning etc are pocket passers and dont like to be hit. If u get a few good shots on them escpecially in the beginning of the game they get rattled and are just average QBS. But ben on the other hand will get punished all day never say one word or complain and get right back up and win the game for you and you cant name me another QB in the league like that!

lionslicer
01-17-2011, 09:55 AM
THAT YEAR I THINK THEY SWITCHED TO BRADY WEN THEY WERE ALREADY IN THE PLAYOFFS.

No they didn't, Brady played the whole season.

plenewken
01-17-2011, 10:11 AM
Marino played how many years in the league? Kelly went to how many SB's?

Rogers won 2 playoff games and has started for I believe 3 years in the league. Let's give him just a bit more time before, as Dennis Green put it, "crowning his ass".

I don't disagree with what you say about Rodgers, although he's playing awesome now. I'm just saying that winning rings is not absolutely necessary to be a Tier 1QB and a HOFer. Marino and Kelly are 2 great examples.

tube517
01-17-2011, 10:21 AM
I agree with all of this.

waht a rediculous thread.

who the hell needs "tiers" to rank 1-7?


brady and manning's careers speak for themselves.

my bias says ben is 3rd.

if i had to select anyone besides him, i would want a. rogers.

d. brees #s speak for themselves.

brett favre.


BRETT FAVRE.



:shout:- BRETT FAVRE!!!!

(FWIW i think a. rogers is what flacco, rivers, vick, ryan will always hope to to be)

StainlessStill
01-17-2011, 10:31 AM
Ben's amazing, always HAS been and it looks like he always will be. The attention to detail, especially when his teams seems down and out and his ability to rise above all the scrutiny and the adversity is something of legends. When it's all said and done, Ben will be a legend if he keeps playing the way he's playing.

For the record, how many pass attempts has Ben gone without a pick? I don't want to jinx him, but I seriously can't remember his last interception....

plenewken
01-17-2011, 10:39 AM
Ben's amazing, always HAS been and it looks like he always will be. The attention to detail, especially when his teams seems down and out and his ability to rise above all the scrutiny and the adversity is something of legends. When it's all said and done, Ben will be a legend if he keeps playing the way he's playing.

For the record, how many pass attempts has Ben gone without a pick? I don't want to jinx him, but I seriously can't remember his last interception....

His last INT was against Baltimore on 12/5/2010, but INT or lost fumble is the same for me. The ball changes hands the same.

smheart78
01-17-2011, 10:42 AM
Everyone should start referring to Ben as the 'Future HOF QB' Ben Rothlisberger.

MDSteel15
01-17-2011, 11:14 AM
At this very second as the playoffs have unfolded...

1. BEN
2. Brady
3. Brees
4. Rodgers
5. who cares!!!

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 12:24 PM
Since when more titles means better player? Football is not boxing, it's a team sport.

As he's playing now, Rodgers is definitely a better QB than Ben. He's more consistent, more accurate and more mobile and take far less hits. These are skills and this is what you consider when you look for "better". If Rodgers continues to play at this level, he'll be considered one of the very best QBs regardless of the number of titles.


Rogers is more mobile and more accurate than Ben but keep in mind Ben's mobility improves when his foot isn't damaged (it's taped up). He's slower now. I think occasionally Rogers makes some bad decisions...more than Ben. The issue is if Rogers makes those poor decisions at a time when his team needs him, that could be his weakness. Ben is also cooler under pressure than Rogers.

I have them tied:
Advantage Ben: dealing with pressure, toughness, mental, succeeding when team needs him

Advantage Rogers: Accuracy, mobility

I have noticed that this season Rogers is getting better at dealing with pressure and has become more mobile...time will tell when he is behind...how he reacts.

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 12:29 PM
Like I said, I could easily put Ben in Tier I as well. Ben does his share of choke/bonehead plays as well from time to time.

Rogers is simply Tier 2 until he wins a ring.

Ben doesn't have as many Bonehead play as he has plays where his arm just gives out. They are not usually mental mistakes. They are usually plays where we are like "What kind of throw was that?" rather than "Why did you try to throw it to that guy?"

I think mentally he is sound. I just wish he could work on his accuracy (sometimes).

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 12:33 PM
Marino played how many years in the league? Kelly went to how many SB's?

Rogers won 2 playoff games and has started for I believe 3 years in the league. Let's give him just a bit more time before, as Dennis Green put it, "crowning his ass".

It was funny because the Bears did win the cowns of the NFC that year and almost won the cown of the Superbowl. That would have been awesom in a victory parade with the trophy to have Green's voice in the background. "If you want to crown them, Crown their ass!"

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 12:37 PM
Everyone should start referring to Ben as the 'Future HOF QB' Ben Rothlisberger.

Along with what Tomlin called him "Raven Killer" (7-0 vs Ratbirds).

plenewken
01-17-2011, 12:37 PM
Ben doesn't have as many Bonehead play as he has plays where his arm just gives out. They are not usually mental mistakes. They are usually plays where we are like "What kind of throw was that?" rather than "Why did you try to throw it to that guy?"

I think mentally he is sound. I just wish he could work on his accuracy (sometimes).

I wish he could work on his conditioning too. He's heavier/fatter than he was 3 or 4 years ago and he's also slower.

Fire Arians
01-17-2011, 12:40 PM
eb64e3gJkiw

ben did a lot of things in his rookie year that probably no other rookie qb will do for a long time, if ever

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 12:49 PM
I wish he could work on his conditioning too. He's heavier/fatter than he was 3 or 4 years ago and he's also slower.

I'm hoping it is his hurting right foot that makes him hobble and be slow rather than conditioning. We'll see next season.

I hope he has his surgery right after the Superbowl parade and his trip to Disney:wink02:

plenewken
01-17-2011, 01:34 PM
I'm hoping it is his hurting right foot that makes him hobble and be slow rather than conditioning. We'll see next season.

I hope he has his surgery right after the Superbowl parade and his trip to Disney:wink02:

Someome posted something a couple weeks ago that almost made me pee my pants. He wrote, "Ben has more chins than a Chinese phone book!" :rofl:

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 03:51 PM
Someome posted something a couple weeks ago that almost made me pee my pants. He wrote, "Ben has more chins than a Chinese phone book!" :rofl:

I think one of those lines under his chin is from surgery from the motorcycle accident. He may be overweight but it doesn't seem to hurt him. I think it's the broken foot.