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FanSince72
01-17-2011, 09:20 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2010/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6027672

Clayton's AFC Q&A:

1. What is the significance of Roethlisberger's appearance in the AFC Championship Game?

If Roethlisberger beats the Jets and eventually gets the Lombardi Trophy, he will earn his third Super Bowl ring, tying Brady and giving him two more than Peyton Manning. The Manning-Brady battles dominated the 2000s. Both are locks to be first-ballot Hall of Famers. Roethlisberger might not be able to put "HOF" next to his name yet, but three Super Bowl rings would let him enter the conversation. He's only 28 years old. What's amazing is that he's 9-2 as a playoff quarterback. Manning has been in the playoffs in 11 of his 13 seasons, but his record is 9-10. Putting it in more perspective, there are only five quarterbacks since 1980 who have more playoff wins than Roethlisberger -- Joe Montana (16), Brady (14), John Elway (14), Brett Favre (13) and Troy Aikman (11).

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Those are some damned interesting stats and what surprises me more is that Bradshaw doesn't even enter into THAT conversation. All in all, I'd say that Ben is in pretty good company and worthy of being in ANY conversation.

It also points out the ridiculousness of bringing Drew Brees into the discussion of "elite" QB's as has been done to death for the last year or so.

Curtain_of_Steel
01-17-2011, 09:32 AM
Bradshaw ONLY doesn;t enter into it, because they are saying since 1980. Bradshaw is 14-5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Bradshaw

In his 14-season career, Bradshaw completed 2,025 of 3,901 passes for 27,989 yards and 212 touchdowns. He also rushed 444 times for 2,257 yards and 32 touchdowns. He was 107-51 as the starting quarterback and the Steelers reached the playoffs 10 times. His career postseason record as a starter was 14-5. He was also selected to play in three Pro Bowl games.


Drew who?lol

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 09:32 AM
If Ben gets his 3rd Super Bowl ring this season. As far as Hall of fame talk goes, and those who feel Ben is NOT a HOF QB. Take note. Ben as of right now has 2800 career pass attempts,,,and 144 TD's. Now, lets say next season Ben throws 500 pass attempts, I doubt he does, but lets say he does. Now, if he attempts that many, it is more then safe to say Ben will have at LEAST 25 TD's, and lets go ahead and say he will have 14 Interceptions. Now, that would give him a total of 3300 pass attempts, for 169 TD's and 100 Intercetions.


Well Troy Aikman threw for a career 165 TD's, and 141 career Interceptions,,,and...Aikman had 4,715 career pass attempts to get those 165 TD's....over 1400 MORE then Ben will have had to get his 169...and BOTH would have 3 Super Bowl wins as well....and Aikman had ALOT better talent around him then Ben has had. And maybe the BEST O-Line ever. And Aikman was a 1st time ballet Hall of famer....but Ben is not ?



Ridiculous! Ben is a LOCK for the Hall of fame. No matter what the " Haters " wish to think.

NYC_Steeler
01-17-2011, 09:33 AM
Those are some damned interesting stats and what surprises me more is that Bradshaw doesn't even enter into THAT conversation.

While I don't dispute the kudos to Ben, I do have an issue with your reference to Bradshaw. As the story stated, the playoff wins were as of 1980. Bradshaw was winning Super Bowls in the 70's - which is why he's not on the list. Terry was 14-5 in the playoffs and by the 80s, the Steelers were in decline. And don't forget: a 2nd wild card game was added to each conference in 1978. Don't knock Terry - he's the man. As for passing stats and such - don't forget: the Steelers of the 70s were a running team with passing capabilities.

FanSince72
01-17-2011, 09:38 AM
While I don't dispute the kudos to Ben, I do have an issue with your reference to Bradshaw. As the story stated, the playoff wins were as of 1980. Bradshaw was winning Super Bowls in the 70's - which is why he's not on the list. Terry was 14-5 in the playoffs and by the 80s, the Steelers were in decline. And don't forget: a 2nd wild card game was added to each conference in 1978. Don't knock Terry - he's the man.


I would never knock Terry.

He's the guy who got me into being a Steeler fan in the first place and I've been on board since he was a rookie.

What I meant by what I wrote was that Terry never seems to be included in any of the "elite" conversations and that frankly pisses me off in the same way that Ben seems to always be left out.

Like Ben, Terry certainly wasn't "pretty", but he was the best money QB in the game. I see a lot of similarities to him in Ben and I suspect that his lack of gaudy stats are the reason why he's hardly mentioned. But like Terry, I think of Ben as the best money QB in the game today, so maybe history is repeating itself.

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 09:48 AM
I would never knock Terry.

He's the guy who got me into being a Steeler fan in the first place and I've been on board since he was a rookie.

What I meant by what I wrote was that Terry never seems to be included in any of the "elite" conversations and that frankly pisses me off in the same way that Ben seems to always be left out.

Like Ben, Terry certainly wasn't "pretty", but he was the best money QB in the game. I see a lot of similarities to him in Ben and I suspect that his lack of gaudy stats are the reason why he's hardly mentioned. But like Terry, I think of Ben as the best money QB in the game today, so maybe history is repeating itself.





Bradshaw is a legend no doubt. And maybe the biggest " Money " QB ever. But the difference between he and all the others was that Bradshaw had the benefit that None of his players could legally just leave the team. There was no free agency during his career. As where Ben has had to deal with that distraction of old players leaving, and new players arriving. Bradshaw never had to worry about his Hall of fame teammates leaving.

steelerdave1969
01-17-2011, 09:52 AM
First of all there is not much anyone can say or do anything to convince me that pretty much any of the players from the 70's could stack up against these new athletes of today's games. As much as I loved C Mike Webster at around 260 lbs would never have a chance against someone of Ngata's stature in Baltimore . . no way. That being said, I think Ben could go back in time easier than Terry could move forward to play against faster bigger players today. Ben is big strong and doesnt get flustered anymore that I can see. Terry threw alot of INT's during his career and he hasnt ever faced a defense like the Steelers have now with all the speed and Ravens as well. Now, I appreciate all that Bradshaw did in the 70's for that Steelers team, but he had a Great Defense for that Time of the game. But they had a backup QB that most likely could have won a lot of games for that team as well.
Ben should be Hall of Fame bound in my opinion, but with a 3rd super bowl on his resume he would be an automatic in my opinion.

FanSince72
01-17-2011, 10:30 AM
Bradshaw is a legend no doubt. And maybe the biggest " Money " QB ever. But the difference between he and all the others was that Bradshaw had the benefit that None of his players could legally just leave the team. There was no free agency during his career. As where Ben has had to deal with that distraction of old players leaving, and new players arriving. Bradshaw never had to worry about his Hall of fame teammates leaving.


I hear that and it's all the more reason to put Ben higher on the list. He's done quite a bit with what has sometimes been a revolving door at WR. First Plax, then Holmes, now Wallace (just to name a few). But all along he's still managed to be who he is and has still managed to build the record and resume he has.

It's just mind boggling how little he's mentioned and how guys like Brees and Rogers - both excellent QB's but with nowhere near the overall success as Ben - regularly upstage him and are almost always included in the "Brady / Manning" narrative.

I mean...Come On!

MDSteel15
01-17-2011, 12:17 PM
Bradshaw ONLY doesn;t enter into it, because they are saying since 1980. Bradshaw is 14-5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Bradshaw

In his 14-season career, Bradshaw completed 2,025 of 3,901 passes for 27,989 yards and 212 touchdowns. He also rushed 444 times for 2,257 yards and 32 touchdowns. He was 107-51 as the starting quarterback and the Steelers reached the playoffs 10 times. His career postseason record as a starter was 14-5. He was also selected to play in three Pro Bowl games.




Awesome find :thumbsup: :popcorn:

bigchuck
01-17-2011, 12:23 PM
ben wins games flat out, i dont care what stats he says theres no better in the clutch in the NFL right now then ben, no matter the situation (3rd and 16) when the big games on the line he delivers and is why hes been so sucessful in the playoffs. bens not the "smoothest" qb out there but when it comes to intangibles no one is on his orbit, he stands alone.

NYC_Steeler
01-17-2011, 01:14 PM
I hear that and it's all the more reason to put Ben higher on the list. He's done quite a bit with what has sometimes been a revolving door at WR. First Plax, then Holmes, now Wallace (just to name a few). But all along he's still managed to be who he is and has still managed to build the record and resume he has.

It's just mind boggling how little he's mentioned and how guys like Brees and Rogers - both excellent QB's but with nowhere near the overall success as Ben - regularly upstage him and are almost always included in the "Brady / Manning" narrative.

I mean...Come On!

I think alot of the non-mentioning of Ben has to do with his off-field problems. He became persona non-grata in the NFL: an embarrassment, and I frimly believe that a mandate was issued: don't praise Ben, mention him when he plays well and wins, but nothing beyond that. The fact that he may very well wind up in the Super Bowl is Roger Goodell's worst PR nightmare as how in the world do you promote a guy who reportedly did some truly disgusting things with women? A number of people in the media don't like Ben - chief among them is Marshall Faulk who called Ben "overrated" during one of the NFL Total Access shows.

If the Steelers make it to SB XLV and win it, there will be no doubt whatsoever of Big Ben's greatness AND his elite status. The fact that he's still young and has a young and very scary corps of receivers is something the media and the rest of the league will have to take notice of. The defense is getting up there in years, but they still have a few good years in them before we need to switch to a younger team. Some of the pieces are already in place with Ziggy on D and Pouncey on O. If the rest of the young guys develop the way everyone hopes they do, Big Ben will have a fistful of rings to flash at all of the haters out there.

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 01:19 PM
I think alot of the non-mentioning of Ben has to do with his off-field problems. He became persona non-grata in the NFL: an embarrassment, and I frimly believe that a mandate was issued: don't praise Ben, mention him when he plays well and wins, but nothing beyond that. The fact that he may very well wind up in the Super Bowl is Roger Goodell's worst PR nightmare as how in the world do you promote a guy who reportedly did some truly disgusting things with women? A number of people in the media don't like Ben - chief among them is Marshall Faulk who called Ben "overrated" during one of the NFL Total Access shows.

If the Steelers make it to SB XLV and win it, there will be no doubt whatsoever of Big Ben's greatness AND his elite status. The fact that he's still young and has a young and very scary corps of receivers is something the media and the rest of the league will have to take notice of. The defense is getting up there in years, but they still have a few good years in them before we need to switch to a younger team. Some of the pieces are already in place with Ziggy on D and Pouncey on O. If the rest of the young guys develop the way everyone hopes they do, Big Ben will have a fistful of rings to flash at all of the haters out there.





Your post is as clueless as it gets. I mean why would Goodell order no one to praise Ben, or not want him getting PR, but then after the first 4 game suspension, when the steelers weren't on ANY National TV games. But then after Ben cameback, the league put the Steelers on national TV ,ore then ANY other NFL team ?


Please, try to get some commen sense. :doh:

NYC_Steeler
01-17-2011, 01:26 PM
Your post is as clueless as it gets. I mean why would Goodell order no one to praise Ben, or not want him getting PR, but then after the first 4 game suspension, when the steelers weren't on ANY National TV games. But then after Ben cameback, the league put the Steelers on national TV ,ore then ANY other NFL team ?


Please, try to get some commen sense. :doh:

Hey genius, the TV schedules are made at the beginning of the year not during - the only games subject to change are those on the flex schedule - where have you been? It's already known when the teams will be on national TV. Clueless? Look in the mirror. How many analysts out there do you know of that have repeatedly praised Ben - especially on the NFL Network - which is owned by the NFL? Why do you think the Steelers have been so heavily penalized while alot of penalties on other players are never called? Whay is it that anytime Marcia Brady is touched by a defender, the refs blow the whistle within a split second? Are you still clueless or have you opened your eyes yet? Wake up and get into the real world.

plenewken
01-17-2011, 01:31 PM
Your post is as clueless as it gets. I mean why would Goodell order no one to praise Ben, or not want him getting PR, but then after the first 4 game suspension, when the steelers weren't on ANY National TV games. But then after Ben cameback, the league put the Steelers on national TV ,ore then ANY other NFL team ?

Please, try to get some commen sense. :doh:

His post is not as clueless as you think. I am convinced that the media are still reluctant to praise Ben as it could upset some of their audience. Same with Vick.

Showing Steelers game during prime time has to do with ratings, not with Ben. The Steelers have one of the largest fan base nationwide, don't forget.

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 01:37 PM
His post is not as clueless as you think. I am convinced that the media are still reluctant to praise Ben as it could upset some of their audience. Same with Vick.

Showing Steelers game during prime time has to do with ratings, not with Ben. The Steelers have one of the largest fan base nationwide, don't forget.



First of all, alot of commentators praise Ben all the time. I mean what have you been watching ? All over the CBS Post game show they were praising Ben. Today on ESPN First take they were, and even both Lomas Brown and Jon Ritchie were saying Ben is the reason they are gonna take Pittsburgh over the Jets. I also feel the greater percentage of the nation, like 90 % never lost any respect for Ben cause they never believed the Bogus allegations against Ben. Which in case you missed it never resulted into an arrest, or Indictment, or convition of Ben. His suspension was SLOELY " Race " related. Goodell was put under national pressure from both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton after the CLAIMS of sexual assault came out because of Goodell's past suspensions of the likes of " Black " thugs like Chris Henry, and Vick and Pac-Man Jones...ALL of whom already had MULTIPLE Arrests and convitions before Goodell ever suspended them for their next Infractions.


Ben was nothing more then a WHITE Scapgoat!

plenewken
01-17-2011, 01:55 PM
First of all, alot of commentators praise Ben all the time. I mean what have you been watching ? All over the CBS Post game show they were praising Ben. Today on ESPN First take they were, and even both Lomas Brown and Jon Ritchie were saying Ben is the reason they are gonna take Pittsburgh over the Jets. I also feel the greater percentage of the nation, like 90 % never lost any respect for Ben cause they never believed the Bogus allegations against Ben. Which in case you missed it never resulted into an arrest, or Indictment, or convition of Ben. His suspension was SLOELY " Race " related. Goodell was put under national pressure from both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton after the CLAIMS of sexual assault came out because of Goodell's past suspensions of the likes of " Black " thugs like Chris Henry, and Vick and Pac-Man Jones...ALL of whom already had MULTIPLE Arrests and convitions before Goodell ever suspended them for their next Infractions.

Ben was nothing more then a WHITE Scapgoat!

I've lived long enough to know that when there's smoke, there's fire.

Ben got away with it because of the lack of evidence but he was far from being innocent. Remember what the GA Prosecutor told us during his press conference? "Ben's conduct was very questionable". "Ben needs to grow up" etc ....

Nothing was bogus or frivolous. Something of a sexual nature happened in GA and it's only because the college student was drunk as a skunk that the prosecution couldn't charge Ben but I'm sure it was very close.

As for his suspension, Ben got suspended because of the assault in GA, not because he's white.
I'm pretty sure Goodell examined very carefully the police reports and what the prosecution found and it's because Ben acted inappropriately that he was suspended and ordered counseling.

In a nutshell, there was enough to suspend him but not enough to charge him criminally.

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 02:02 PM
I've lived long enough to know that when there's smoke, there's fire.

Ben got away with it because of the lack of evidence but he was far from being innocent. Remember what the GA Prosecutor told us during his press conference? "Ben's conduct was very questionable". "Ben needs to grow up" etc ....

Nothing was bogus or frivolous. Something of a sexual nature happened in GA and it's only because the college student was drunk as a skunk that the prosecution couldn't charge Ben but I'm sure it was very close.

As for his suspension, Ben got suspended because of the assault in GA, not because he's white.
I'm pretty sure Goodell examined very carefully the police reports and what the prosecution found and it's because Ben acted inappropriately that he was suspended and ordered counseling.

In a nutshell, there was enough to suspend him but not enough to charge him criminally.





Might I suggest some Law classes, but, a lack of ANY Evidence DOES mean one is Innocent. You see Innocence is always ASSUMED...until PROVEN Guilty. Maybe you should go and read the official GBI reports. The lead Investigator himself after Interviewing the girl and her two friends said that they couldn't get their stories straight. They changed their stories multiple of times, and were outright caught in making false statements. Don't believe it...go and read it for yourself.


As for the nevada claim,,,I mean if you can't smell the totall BS in that Money *****'s claim,,,then You are one lost little puppy.

TRH
01-17-2011, 02:15 PM
well, regardless people...i've actually had the last few weeks off of work and SportsCenter, GameDay, and anything else i can get have been on pretty much all day and while there's been some Steeler coverage, its not even close, not even in the same ballpark, as what Aaron Rogers/Packers/Ravens/Seahawks/Bears/Pats/Jets were getting. Not even close and at times it seemed as if we weren't even in the playoffs.
That said, before the Colts were eliminated, i was surprised on the lack of attention they were getting as well, it wasn't just us.
But Packers, Jets and Ravens were/are getting a monstrous amount of TV time in comparison.

plenewken
01-17-2011, 02:18 PM
Might I suggest some Law classes, but, a lack of ANY Evidence DOES mean one is Innocent. You see Innocence is always ASSUMED...until PROVEN Guilty. Maybe you should go and read the official GBI reports. The lead Investigator himself after Interviewing the girl and her two friends said that they couldn't get their stories straight. They changed their stories multiple of times, and were outright caught in making false statements. Don't believe it...go and read it for yourself.


As for the nevada claim,,,I mean if you can't smell the totall BS in that Money *****'s claim,,,then You are one lost little puppy.

If you can read, I wrote something to the like of : "Ben did enough to mandate a suspension and counseling, not enough to be criminally prosecuted". So in legal terms he's innocent, but in my book, he's not.

The prosecutor made it clear that Ben's conduct was inappropriate, yet he couldn't prove without a doubt that Ben sexually assaulted the college student. The prosecutor never said, nothing happened.

So you consider him innocent if you want, I'll continue to think that he acted like a jerk and got away with it.

TRH
01-17-2011, 02:34 PM
if there was 'suspension' for "misconduct, we'd ALL be missing some work, now wouldn't we? ALL OF US.....

plenewken
01-17-2011, 02:39 PM
if there was 'suspension' for "misconduct, we'd ALL be missing some work, now wouldn't we? ALL OF US.....

Misconduct like hitting on women and not taking no for an answer? Nope.

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 02:43 PM
Misconduct like hitting on women and not taking no for an answer? Nope.



What about Misconduct like lying about being abused when there is no evidence at all ? What about three girls telling 4 different accounts of their story to the GBI Investigators ? What about a e-mail brought forwrd by a Nevada Hotel Co-Worker where it shows that the first woman to claim Ben raped her actually brags about having sex with Ben, and that she thinks she is pregnant ?...what about that Moisconduct. Or did that sail over your Ignorant mind ?

plenewken
01-17-2011, 02:46 PM
Or did that sail over your Ignorant mind ?

Welcome to my Ignore List.

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 02:51 PM
Welcome to my Ignore List.



Typical of Ben haters. They can't stand the heat when someone brings valid points to an issue. So he runs away and hides. Trust me people, this guy is NO True Steeler fan.

WeegiesWarriors
01-17-2011, 03:28 PM
Ben is a HoF QB RIGHT NOW. And I use one person as the benchmark:

Phil Simms

You won't find Phil among any of the leaders in statistics, but what Phil was known for was being a winner. Phil has 2 Super Bowl rings just like Ben (actually Phil only played in one). Simms has 95 wins. If Ben doesn't win another ring, but continues and remains on pace to get around the 100 win mark as a QB the writers have no choice but to vote Ben in based on Phil Simms being in. Phil is a SB MVP, but a SB MVP isn't a pre-req for the HoF.

Ben now has 78 total wins by what I can figure (you can find almost any kind of stat on a QB but to find a guy's total win total is amazingly hard).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_wins_by_a_starting_quarterback_(NFL)

There are 24 QBs with 90 or more wins. Of those 24, seven are not in the HoF (not including Manning and Brady who are dead locks). One of those 7 have a SB win (Ken Stabler). Seems to me that Ben is only 2 .500 seasons away from being in a position on that list to be pretty much a lock HoF'er. I mean if Phil Simms is HoF worthy....

madtowndrunkard
01-17-2011, 03:53 PM
His post is not as clueless as you think. I am convinced that the media are still reluctant to praise Ben as it could upset some of their audience. Same with Vick.

Showing Steelers game during prime time has to do with ratings, not with Ben. The Steelers have one of the largest fan base nationwide, don't forget.


there is some truth to this. The networks that cover the NFL has the same interests as the NFL. They do not want to tarnish the brand name. So talking about guys like Ben are bad for business....especially to advertisers. Woman hate Big Ben. Don't forget it.

Vick is a puppy killer. The last thing anyone (affiliated with the NFL or the networks) wanted to see was Vick succeeding. Everyone loves dogs....some even more then people. Especially women.

Roger Goodell has been pretty firm on his mission to keep reputation of the NFL clean. The example he made of Ben was a pretty clear message. Also consider who the NFL wants to reach. They already own the adult male population. They want women and Hispanics....both groups are an untapped market for the NFL. The last thing on earth Roger Goodell wants is for Ben to win a SB.

Be damn sure the NFL wants the Jets to beat us. Women love Sanchez.....and I could be wrong but I don''t think Sanchez is Irish. Not to mention the obvious attraction to have NY and Chicago in a SB. There would be billions of $ in potential profits for the Networks and the league if the Jets and Bears meet up in the SB.

This team better expect an all out attack from the officials next Sunday. We need to take the lead early and run away with it.

madtowndrunkard
01-17-2011, 04:00 PM
Ben is a HoF QB RIGHT NOW. And I use one person as the benchmark:

Phil Simms

You won't find Phil among any of the leaders in statistics, but what Phil was known for was being a winner. Phil has 2 Super Bowl rings just like Ben (actually Phil only played in one). Simms has 95 wins. If Ben doesn't win another ring, but continues and remains on pace to get around the 100 win mark as a QB the writers have no choice but to vote Ben in based on Phil Simms being in. Phil is a SB MVP, but a SB MVP isn't a pre-req for the HoF.

Ben now has 78 total wins by what I can figure (you can find almost any kind of stat on a QB but to find a guy's total win total is amazingly hard).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_wins_by_a_starting_quarterback_(NFL)

There are 24 QBs with 90 or more wins. Of those 24, seven are not in the HoF (not including Manning and Brady who are dead locks). One of those 7 have a SB win (Ken Stabler). Seems to me that Ben is only 2 .500 seasons away from being in a position on that list to be pretty much a lock HoF'er. I mean if Phil Simms is HoF worthy....

All good points but Ben's persona is not good. Simms was liked by everyone and he had a face for TV.

I think Ben will need 1 more ring to guarantee him self a spot in Canton.

In my opinion Ben is very much like John Elway in style and talents. I always though Elway was a little over rated but a definite HOF QB. I also think Favre is way over rated but also very deserving to be in the HOF. I just think you cannot ignore the negatives about both QB's ....Elway struggle to win the big one most of his career..... Favre often killed his team with his reckless decisions and because of it only managed to win 1 SB.

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 04:01 PM
there is some truth to this. The networks that cover the NFL has the same interests as the NFL. They do not want to tarnish the brand name. So talking about guys like Ben are bad for business....especially to advertisers. Woman hate Big Ben. Don't forget it.

Vick is a puppy killer. The last thing anyone (affiliated with the NFL or the networks) wanted to see was Vick succeeding. Everyone loves dogs....some even more then people. Especially women.

Roger Goodell has been pretty firm on his mission to keep reputation of the NFL clean. The example he made of Ben was a pretty clear message. Also consider who the NFL wants to reach. They already own the adult male population. They want women and Hispanics....both groups are an untapped market for the NFL. The last thing on earth Roger Goodell wants is for Ben to win a SB.

Be damn sure the NFL wants the Jets to beat us. Women love Sanchez.....and I could be wrong but I don''t think Sanchez is Irish. Not to mention the obvious attraction to have NY and Chicago in a SB. There would be billions of $ in potential profits for the Networks and the league if the Jets and Bears meet up in the SB.

This team better expect an all out attack from the officials next Sunday. We need to take the lead early and run away with it.




Do you really think the nation would want to watch a Bears/Jets SB over a Steeler/Packer SB ? Not a chance in HELL! And that is what would sell huge high priced commercial Ads. Also remember, unlike Ben, Sanchez actually HAS a arrest for a sexual related club Incident on the books.

FanSince72
01-17-2011, 04:14 PM
Hey genius, the TV schedules are made at the beginning of the year not during - the only games subject to change are those on the flex schedule - where have you been? It's already known when the teams will be on national TV. Clueless? Look in the mirror. How many analysts out there do you know of that have repeatedly praised Ben - especially on the NFL Network - which is owned by the NFL? Why do you think the Steelers have been so heavily penalized while alot of penalties on other players are never called? Whay is it that anytime Marcia Brady is touched by a defender, the refs blow the whistle within a split second? Are you still clueless or have you opened your eyes yet? Wake up and get into the real world.


As much as I like Ben (and I really do) I have to agree with you on a lot of what you've written - especially the penalties and the "persona non grata" aspect, though I don't believe it's a League mandate (perhaps more of a suggestion).

Goodell, for whatever reason, sees himself as the new sheriff in town and he's determined to run a tight ship and to a large extent I can't say I disagree with him. But the over zealous fines and the "image" thing gets to me.

The very nature of sports attracts an excessive amount of Triple Type-A personalities and there is aggression built into their DNA. Ben is no exception and he along with countless others have probably engaged in a variety of behaviors that many people would see as, shall we say, less than tasteful and that's been going on as long as there have been contests between males.

But the facts are the facts; Ben was not charged with any crimes and of course he was not convicted of any crimes and even though the writing on the wall may have suggested that he should have been --- he wasn't.
If Goodell is indeed imposing his own sanctions on Ben then he's allowing his own worldview to stomp all over due process and the basic concept of "innocent until proven guilty" and if his goal is to teach values then that's a pretty lousy way to go about doing so.

If Ben was actually convicted of a crime and Goodell wanted to impose a gag on the league and order them not to talk about Ben, I could understand it. But the reality is that Ben -- who may very well have done some or even all of the things of which he is suspected of doing, was exonerated and (by all accounts) has done everything that has been asked of him and more to become whatever Goodell's idea of a model citizen should be and I believe that that should count for something.

If Goodell is indeed conspiring to limit Ben's exposure or to penalize his team in an effort to keep them from the limelight of a SB appearance, then Goodell should be ashamed of himself and in such a case Goodell himself would be no better a role model than those on whom he is passing judgment.

FanSince72
01-17-2011, 04:20 PM
Do you really think the nation would want to watch a Bears/Jets SB over a Steeler/Packer SB ? Not a chance in HELL! And that is what would sell huge high priced commercial Ads. Also remember, unlike Ben, Sanchez actually HAS a arrest for a sexual related club Incident on the books.


Since you brought it up. according to ESPN's polling, 44% of those polled (155,347 votes as of this writing) want to see a Packers / Steelers SB.

The remaining 56% are divided between the other three possibilities.

For the record, a Bears / Jets SB comes in at a paltry 12%

davidtrout
01-17-2011, 04:55 PM
Ben is a HoF QB RIGHT NOW. And I use one person as the benchmark:

Phil Simms

You won't find Phil among any of the leaders in statistics, but what Phil was known for was being a winner. Phil has 2 Super Bowl rings just like Ben (actually Phil only played in one). Simms has 95 wins. If Ben doesn't win another ring, but continues and remains on pace to get around the 100 win mark as a QB the writers have no choice but to vote Ben in based on Phil Simms being in. Phil is a SB MVP, but a SB MVP isn't a pre-req for the HoF.

Ben now has 78 total wins by what I can figure (you can find almost any kind of stat on a QB but to find a guy's total win total is amazingly hard).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_wins_by_a_starting_quarterback_(NFL)

There are 24 QBs with 90 or more wins. Of those 24, seven are not in the HoF (not including Manning and Brady who are dead locks). One of those 7 have a SB win (Ken Stabler). Seems to me that Ben is only 2 .500 seasons away from being in a position on that list to be pretty much a lock HoF'er. I mean if Phil Simms is HoF worthy....

I'm a little lost as to what Phil Simms has to do with Ben being a HOF candidate. Simms is not in the hall and he's not a finalist again this year. I don't think he's even been a finalist in any previous year. What makes him the benchmark?