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View Full Version : What a change in 2 years...Keisel


SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 01:05 PM
Now that Keisel has been named to the pro-bowl maybe we'll actually give him the respect he deserves.

I'm guilty like many of you.

I remember 2 years ago I thought he was the only possible weak link on the entire defense (I knew he was good...just not excellent like the other 10 positions).

In my defense, at that time we had what looked like 4 excellent CBs in Taylor, Townsend, McFadden and Gay. Sure Townsend was getting older but he did start the season and had some moments where he looked good. Gay looked like an up and comer.

The LBs seemed solid with Woodley and Timmons up and coming. Foote and Farior looked solid. Harrison was a beast.

Troy and Clark looked Beastly

Aaron Smith and Hampton seemed amazing.

Keisel was the only guy to even think of picking on as only "good" but not "all star".

Did anyone else do the same thing?

tony hipchest
01-17-2011, 01:17 PM
no. i always thought keisel was the man.

many pople thought we were doomed when kemo left after the 05 superbowl.

brett was tearing shit up on special teams, and a solid backup (just like hood has been).

he earned his stripes just like most players have to in lebeaus scheme and i am wise enough to know that takes time.

i guess im just more patient and alot less knee-jerk rectionary than alot of fans.

wootawnee
01-17-2011, 01:24 PM
no. i always thought keisel was the man.

many pople thought we were doomed when kemo left after the 05 superbowl.

brett was tearing shit up on special teams, and a solid backup (just like hood has been).

he earned his stripes just like most players have to in lebeaus scheme and i am wise enough to know that takes time.

i guess im just more patient and alot less knee-jerk rectionary than alot of fans.


Me 2.......I remember in the 05 championship[ game him running down the speedy Jake Plummer out of bounds the whole way accross the field.........Keisel said no way........He used to be a beast on kickoffs.......One of the best I have ever seen bustin wedges..........

I love him.......He got the spirit like Banazak had..........Pure Pittsburgh.......Thats a champion.....

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 01:42 PM
no. i always thought keisel was the man.

many pople thought we were doomed when kemo left after the 05 superbowl.

brett was tearing shit up on special teams, and a solid backup (just like hood has been).

he earned his stripes just like most players have to in lebeaus scheme and i am wise enough to know that takes time.

i guess im just more patient and alot less knee-jerk rectionary than alot of fans.

If you had to pick the weakest link of the 2008 defense, who would you have chosen?

I knew Keisel was good but veryone else just seemed "all star". I remember one year, they even talked about moving him around.

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 01:46 PM
Me 2.......I remember in the 05 championship[ game him running down the speedy Jake Plummer out of bounds the whole way accross the field.........Keisel said no way........He used to be a beast on kickoffs.......One of the best I have ever seen bustin wedges..........

I love him.......He got the spirit like Banazak had..........Pure Pittsburgh.......Thats a champion.....

I think this Pro-Bowl honor means something. No longer is it Smith and the other guy who is pretty good.

I do wish they could get him faster. I've seen him sometimes chasing QBs (no guy between him) and he just can't catch them. If he could work on his speed or cut off angle, he would be able to get more sacks, more disruption (BTW...I know it is not the main job of a 3-4 DE to get sacks).

steeltheone
01-17-2011, 02:46 PM
Keisel is solid...I question the Pro Bowl He missed 5 or 6 games.

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 04:46 PM
Keisel is solid...I question the Pro Bowl He missed 5 or 6 games.

I don't know if it was that many but i was initially surprised since he was injured this year too. He did have a run back for a TD.

Right now He is probably still third lowest as far as importance IMO.

1.Troy
2.Harrison
3.Woodley
4.Taylor -we would get abused without him
5.Clark -so underrated
6.Timmons -awesome...has quieted down lately
7.Hampton...would have been higher but hoke is competent
8.Smith...because we have Hood
9.Keisel
10. Farior-only because of age and Foote could step in
11. McFadden -weakest link these days

steeltheone
01-17-2011, 05:48 PM
See I thought Clark slipped a lot this season. He did have a great game Saturday!

MasterOfPuppets
01-17-2011, 07:40 PM
If you had to pick the weakest link of the 2008 defense, who would you have chosen?

I knew Keisel was good but veryone else just seemed "all star". I remember one year, they even talked about moving him around.
larry foote

lionslicer
01-17-2011, 08:08 PM
I always liked Keisel. He's been over shadowed by Harrison and Hampton, but I'm glad he got recognition this year.

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 08:52 PM
larry foote

I'm not even going to try to pretend. I thought Larry Foote was pretty strong in 2008 but at the same time I didn't over-analyze it because I knew we had Timmons up and coming.

So was Keisel your second weakest in 2008? If not what place?

Nobody is fessing up. The board I was on had a lot of people talking about being even stronger by replacing Keisel. Nobody hated him. Everyone thought he was good but at the time, the other 10 players seemed like all stars. I wish people would just be honest. Hind sight is 20/20.

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 08:55 PM
See I thought Clark slipped a lot this season. He did have a great game Saturday!

I was just thinking about how we almost let Miami take him. Without him on Saturday we would be out...the INT AND forced fumble...plus some other good tackles. He was playing like Troy on Saturday. lol

The team wouldn't even pay him Kemo money.

lionslicer
01-17-2011, 10:00 PM
I'm not even going to try to pretend. I thought Larry Foote was pretty strong in 2008 but at the same time I didn't over-analyze it because I knew we had Timmons up and coming.

So was Keisel your second weakest in 2008? If not what place?

Nobody is fessing up. The board I was on had a lot of people talking about being even stronger by replacing Keisel. Nobody hated him. Everyone thought he was good but at the time, the other 10 players seemed like all stars. I wish people would just be honest. Hind sight is 20/20.

The defense was strong at every position. If I had to pick a weakest link I'd have to say eithe Foote for Mcfadden.

But out of 11 starters, 1 being the weakest link, I say Keisel was 3 or 4

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 10:39 PM
The defense was strong at every position. If I had to pick a weakest link I'd have to say eithe Foote for Mcfadden.

But out of 11 starters, 1 being the weakest link, I say Keisel was 3 or 4

You guys are all fake liars. lol Does this board keep posts from 2 years ago? lol
I don't think anyone thought McFadden was weak at that time. He looked good taking over for Townsend plus he was young so it was like a future star.

Nobody was really complaining about Foote but even so everyone knew Timmons was in development so that "position" wasn't targeted for being a weak link. It was RDE that people were talking about. I'm not saying people thought Keisel was bad...just "good" on a team where everyone else was excellent. I'm pretty sure when Hood was drafted people thought "if he is good quickly he can take over for Keisel" even though Smith is older.

No honestly coming out.

Yeah McFadden looks weak now...people didn't know.:sofunny:

steeltheone
01-17-2011, 10:46 PM
I was just thinking about how we almost let Miami take him. Without him on Saturday we would be out...the INT AND forced fumble...plus some other good tackles. He was playing like Troy on Saturday. lol

The team wouldn't even pay him Kemo money.

Remember he is 31. We cant sign a whole team of 30 somethings to long rich contracts. But it's working now! Go Steelers

lionslicer
01-17-2011, 10:54 PM
You guys are all fake liars. lol Does this board keep posts from 2 years ago? lol
I don't think anyone thought McFadden was weak at that time. He looked good taking over for Townsend plus he was young so it was like a future star.

Nobody was really complaining about Foote but even so everyone knew Timmons was in development so that "position" wasn't targeted for being a weak link. It was RDE that people were talking about. I'm not saying people thought Keisel was bad...just "good" on a team where everyone else was excellent. I'm pretty sure when Hood was drafted people thought "if he is good quickly he can take over for Keisel" even though Smith is older.

No honestly coming out.

Yeah McFadden looks weak now...people didn't know.:sofunny:

I'm sure some are fake liars. Like people who said Farrior is too old and the weakest link, but when he had a very strong end of the season, they were mad he didn't make the pro bowl lol.

I'm not going to defend my views, I wasn't on the board back then, but I know I liked Keisel, but I don't remember every opinion I had.

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 10:55 PM
Remember he is 31. We cant sign a whole team of 30 somethings to long rich contracts. But it's working now! Go Steelers

We could have paid him (Clark) more than Kemo per year to a short contract. They played hardball. I'm just glad he really loves the Steelers and winning.

I hope Troy gives us a discount. There is some value to finishing on the same team and players retire in their 30s and have 40-70 more years to live. i think your speaking engagements and memorabilia value goes up (in my mind) if you stay on the same team. you will have fans who will love you forever. What fans does Faneca have? he missed out on a SB and the opportunity to be a beloved Steeler for the rest of his life.

Ike should also realize he has something special here and could be part of more SBs and give us a discount ...OR go play 4 more meaningless years somewhere and become a nobody with no true forever fans.

SteelKnight
01-17-2011, 10:59 PM
I'm sure some are fake liars. Like people who said Farrior is too old and the weakest link, but when he had a very strong end of the season, they were mad he didn't make the pro bowl lol.

I'm not going to defend my views, I wasn't on the board back then, but I know I liked Keisel, but I don't remember every opinion I had.

LOL. You know I'm just messing with you.

I was on another board and I can tell you for a fact...people were saying the defense was an all star team except Keisel whom people thought was "good". They were thinking if that position could be improved by a beast, we would even be better. Even in 07, half of the board i was on wanted to draft Adam Carriker to replace Keisel and be the bookend to Smith. Now everyone always loved Keisel...fake...lol

MasterOfPuppets
01-17-2011, 11:06 PM
was there a time that i thought RE could be upgraded ? yep....do i still think that now ? yep. keisel has played ok, but he's certainly no richard seymour...:noidea:
was there a drop off when keisel was out and eason was in ?

lionslicer
01-17-2011, 11:07 PM
LOL. You know I'm just messing with you.

I was on another board and I can tell you for a fact...people were saying the defense was an all star team except Keisel whom people thought was "good". They were thinking if that position could be improved by a beast, we would even be better. Even in 07, half of the board i was on wanted to draft Adam Carriker to replace Keisel and be the bookend to Smith. Now everyone always loved Keisel...fake...lol

I'll agree with you there, in 2007 I thought Keisel, and that one guy, Kirsche... sucked. I wanted someone better there, but I'm not complaining now

tony hipchest
01-17-2011, 11:22 PM
I'm not even going to try to pretend. I thought Larry Foote was pretty strong in 2008 but at the same time I didn't over-analyze it because I knew we had Timmons up and coming.

So was Keisel your second weakest in 2008? If not what place?

Nobody is fessing up. The board I was on had a lot of people talking about being even stronger by replacing Keisel. Nobody hated him. Everyone thought he was good but at the time, the other 10 players seemed like all stars. I wish people would just be honest. Hind sight is 20/20.well if were being honest there is nothing to fess up because your question is a loaded one.

there was no "weakest link" on the 2008 defense. i would say that was the best defense since the '85 bears. it was a solid chain. the only flaw was the natural and inherent holes that can be found in the fire zone blitz defense (or any defensive scheme for that matter).

but in the case of lebeaus defense it usually takes the likes of joe montana and john taylor, or tom brady to be lucky and skilled enough to find those holes and capitalize on them.

as for keisel, i saw enough in 2006 and 2007 to call him the "weakest link". would i call him the least accomplished or least well known? possibly.

SteelKnight
01-18-2011, 12:22 AM
well if were being honest there is nothing to fess up because your question is a loaded one.

there was no "weakest link" on the 2008 defense. i would say that was the best defense since the '85 bears. it was a solid chain.

as for keisel, i saw enough in 2006 and 2007 to call him the "weakest link". would i call him the least accomplished or least well known? possibly.

Not trying to set you up at all. I do remember people in the 07 draft saying we NEEDED to get Carriker to bookend Smith (Half of the board I was on wanted AC).

I agree it was an awesome defense so it is hard to point to a weak link. I just feel people had the impression that he was "good" while the others were "excellent". If one were to point to a piece to potentially upgrade, I think that would have been it. Now he is a Pro-Bowler so I was just admitting that a lot has changed form him being #11 on an awesome team.

I did realize some skill at the time because some of us were saying "Look at that...he had the most QB hurries. Go figure" and I teased that maybe he just needs a cooler nickname or to trash talk more to get his credit.

Anyway...well done to him. I really think if he could work on his straight line speed and cutting off technique he'd be even better. Sometimes he beats his man but can't catch up to the QB. It's the way he runs (fully standing). Maybe they could teach him a few longer strides or something.

SteelKnight
01-18-2011, 12:27 AM
was there a time that i thought RE could be upgraded ? yep....do i still think that now ? yep. keisel has played ok, but he's certainly no richard seymour...:noidea:
was there a drop off when keisel was out and eason was in ?

Much respect. You are the first person to admit it. The others are just being fake. lol Now they always knew Keisel was awesome. I bet you if we could go back to the 07 draft on this board, if it is like the one I was on, half (if not more) wanted Carriker to bookend Smith.

I'm not saying anyone thought he was bad. They all thought he was good...just not excellent like the others.

SteelKnight
01-18-2011, 12:33 AM
The defense was strong at every position. If I had to pick a weakest link I'd have to say eithe Foote for Mcfadden.

But out of 11 starters, 1 being the weakest link, I say Keisel was 3 or 4

BTW...I wish someone like Woodson or Dion would coach McFadden and give him tips. I was annoyed the time i saw Woodson teaching CinCi's secondary. I guess he did it as a favor to Marvin Lewis who he played for at Baltimore. They seems to be playing better (Cinci CBs). Maybe he needs to come and give BMac and Gay some tips.

A good team develops talent. Horton needs to tell BMac what he's doing wrong.

SteelKnight
01-18-2011, 12:37 AM
I'll agree with you there, in 2007 I thought Keisel, and that one guy, Kirsche... sucked. I wanted someone better there, but I'm not complaining now

I guess my 2008 impression (and after) came from 2007 impression. He had not really done anything to set himself apart from that. I did tell myself that he must be doing a good job since it is his job to occupy linemen on that side and Harrison was having a beast year.

DanRooney
01-18-2011, 05:04 AM
You aren't the #1 ranked rushing D and lead the league in sacks with the weakest link on your D-line.

Larry Foote and Ryan Clark were the 2 worst in 2008.

SteelKnight
01-18-2011, 03:15 PM
You aren't the #1 ranked rushing D and lead the league in sacks with the weakest link on your D-line.

Larry Foote and Ryan Clark were the 2 worst in 2008.

I thought both Foote and Clark were excellent in 2008. ILBs help stop the run also. The Steelers always have had a good run D. It probably has more to do with Lebeau. It was still good with Kirschke. Still good with Hoke. Still good with Hood and still good with Eason. No drop off...

I think if you would have given the fans the choice of replacing Clark of Keisel, they would have chosen Keisel. I don't think people are purposely lying...just forgetting. Foote is hard to comment on because people had already imagined Timmons as a replacement (although some had imagined him replacing Farrior because of age).

Even if some people started to like Keisel in 08, i don't think you can argue they liked him in 07 when everyone wanted Carriker for the 07 draft to bookend Smith even after we lost Porter, Keisel was still a bigger concern for them. I don't think he did anything overwhelming in the 2007 season.

Either way, Keisel would have been either #10 or #11 on that team and he has come a long way to now be a Pro-Bowler and not Smith and the other guy.

MDSteel15
01-18-2011, 03:28 PM
was there a time that i thought RE could be upgraded ? yep....do i still think that now ? yep. keisel has played ok, but he's certainly no richard seymour...:noidea:
was there a drop off when keisel was out and eason was in ?

Seymour is a 4-3 DE :wave:

SteelKnight
01-18-2011, 03:38 PM
Seymour is a 4-3 DE :wave:

Well Keisel's real weakness is his running speed. I've seen him beat his man many times with nobody between him and the QB and since QBs like to run to the right, the QB just starts moving a little and Keisel can't catch him. It is painful to watch. He runs standing perfectly straight. They need to teach him to take log strides and use his arms (like that Florida training coach was teaching). Seriously, he woul be a beast if he could improve on that.

Even though the idea of a 3-4 DE is to occupy linemen so OLBs can get sacks, I see Hood getting 8 sacks next year if he starts. The DEs also have to destroy the center of the pocket so CBs can't just step up while OLBs are being phoneboothed.

MattsMe
01-18-2011, 03:48 PM
So the people on this board are fake, not to mention liars, because they won't admit to opinions expressed by members of the board you were on two years ago? :doh:

Hint: different board = different posters. Maybe if you insist on getting people to admit they were wrong about Kiesel, you should go back to the board you were on two years ago and start this thread there.

Kiesel is a good player. He was a great special teamer, and worked his way up to starter. He'll never be hall of fame material, but as others pointed out, there was no "weakest link" on the 2008 defense.

MasterOfPuppets
01-18-2011, 03:57 PM
Seymour is a 4-3 DE :wave:
was he a 4-3 DE when he played in new englands 3 - 4 ? :doh:

SteelKnight
01-18-2011, 04:11 PM
So the people on this board are fake, not to mention liars, because they won't admit to opinions expressed by members of the board you were on two years ago? :doh:

Hint: different board = different posters.

The drama thing you guys use is funny because alomst always it is melodramatic nonsense. i see you guys who overuse this :doh: as drama queens.

The fake and liars comments is just ribbing but I'm sure you missed the tone and context. Hint: "lol"s should give that away.

Even though it is a different board, I'm sure the sentiment among fans is similar. OK...tell me for example who most people wanted in the 2007 draft on this board?

I'm not saying people thought keisel was bad. Many just thought he was average to good and that it was a position they wanted upgraded.

lionslicer
01-18-2011, 05:15 PM
Seymour is a 4-3 DE :wave:

... What? lol

He's a 4-3 defensive tackle in oakland but he was a 3-4 defensive end in new england. You could say he plays more like a 4-3 defensive end because he is very good at pass rushing

chitownpit
01-18-2011, 08:34 PM
The drama thing you guys use is funny because alomst always it is melodramatic nonsense. i see you guys who overuse this :doh: as drama queens.

The fake and liars comments is just ribbing but I'm sure you missed the tone and context. Hint: "lol"s should give that away.

Even though it is a different board, I'm sure the sentiment among fans is similar. OK...tell me for example who most people wanted in the 2007 draft on this board?

I'm not saying people thought keisel was bad. Many just thought he was average to good and that it was a position they wanted upgraded.

Nobody thought keisel was bad,you are correct. But the guy who says he was on
his draft board is a lair,or a terrible evaulator. We needed an upgrade there and
and he wasnt it. Credit is due to the man. he worked while we talked and
turned himself into a great probowl D, end. Some of us arnt born with all the
talent and have to work at it. GOD bless the man . Im impressed with what he
has become:drink: