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View Full Version : Can Ben beat the Jets' coverage?


JetsFan17
01-17-2011, 03:08 PM
As I'm sure you guys have seen the past two weeks, the Jets have changed up their gameplan against elite quarterbacks in Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. The typical Rex Ryan overload blitz, extreme pressure on the QB plan has gone out the window.

The Jets have sent only 3 or 4 men at the QB 87% of the time this postseason. Compare this with them sending only 3 or 4 men 36% of the time last postseason. Heard that stat on Mike and Mike.

That being said, the Jets' coverage has been absolutely outstanding. On one play yesterday, Brady had more than eight seconds on a third down, and still couldn't even complete a pass. In two consecutive weeks, the best quarterbacks in the game have been stumped.

Can Ben and the Steelers run an effective pass offense against the Jets unlike Brady and Manning? What do you guys think... Will Roethlisberger and the receivers solve the Jets D? And if so, how will they do it?

steelerage
01-17-2011, 03:14 PM
From Craig Wolfley to Peter king:
"Number seven.'' "Seventh straight win over Baltimore (by number seven), seventh season in the league,
trying to get the Steelers to their seventh Super Bowl [title], won by seven tonight. Power of seven, brother.''

Number 7 FTW!

Fire Arians
01-17-2011, 03:15 PM
yes he can. and sending 3-4 against brady and manning will work, but ben roethlisberger has a MUCH different style of play. You cannot attack him the same way you would brady/manning or you will get killed.

The way to stop ben is to keep him in the pocket and give him no time at all to throw. You send 3-4 rushers at him, he will extend the play and someone will get open. When he gets outside of the pocket, his eyes are still always downfield and he will find the opening in a defense and hit it. He's lived by this throughout his entire career. The ONLY times I ever see him have a bad game is due to the rush being in his face constantly. If you give him all day to throw he WILL beat you. He is very much unlike brady/manning who mostly depend on timing patterns. Ben lives on improvision.

Also I would worry about mendenhall as well, he did rush for 98 against you guys in the last meeting. Your defense will have their hands full.

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 03:15 PM
But the thing you forget is neither of those two teams have a running game like ours. And Mendenhall ran it down your throats last game. So, rush only 3 to 4, and we will make you pay on runs. Try to advance Coleman off the edge, and Antonio Brown or even Sanders will kill your slow back-up secondary people on short quick-hitters. Not to mention BOTH Revis and " Cro-Fro " are totally scared of Wallace, and will be way, way way off the line against him for fear of being beat deep. So the middle will be wide open for Wallace...just like in game 1 where he torched you guys.

pete74
01-17-2011, 03:18 PM
it will be tough but ben will do alot better against that defense then brady did. the real question is can Sanchez survive our defense

MACH1
01-17-2011, 03:18 PM
Also Ben isn't a statue back there. He can and will move around to make things happen.

JetsFan17
01-17-2011, 03:20 PM
yes he can. and sending 3-4 against brady and manning will work, but ben roethlisberger has a MUCH different style of play. You cannot attack him the same way you would brady/manning or you will get killed.

The way to stop ben is to keep him in the pocket and give him no time at all to throw. You send 3-4 rushers at him, he will extend the play and someone will get open. When he gets outside of the pocket, his eyes are still always downfield and he will find the opening in a defense and hit it. He's lived by this throughout his entire career.

Also I would worry about mendenhall as well, he did rush for 98 against you guys in the last meeting. Your defense will have their hands full.

Agreed that Ben is definitely a changeup from the always-in-the-pocket TB & PM. This is why Sunday should be so intriguing to see what Rex Ryan can dial up to confuse Ben. The problem with trying to send more rushers at the QB with the 2010 Jets is that this team has a terrible pass rush. No one can beat his man one on one on this defense, and all of the overload blitzes from 2009 were figured out in the offseason by means of studying the tape. I think the majority of the five sacks of Brady were coverage sacks and not just a straight pass rush.

That's why I think you'll see a continued emphasis on coverage. Jets dressed 11 DB's for the game yesterday, and only four down linemen. That is insane.

I'd like to see Revis on Mike Wallace the whole game, so he gets shut down.

JetsFan17
01-17-2011, 03:22 PM
But the thing you forget is neither of those two teams have a running game like ours. And Mendenhall ran it down your throats last game. So, rush only 3 to 4, and we will make you pay on runs. Try to advance Coleman off the edge, and Antonio Brown or even Sanders will kill your slow back-up secondary people on short quick-hitters. Not to mention BOTH Revis and " Cro-Fro " are totally scared of Wallace, and will be way, way way off the line against him for fear of being beat deep. So the middle will be wide open for Wallace...just like in game 1 where he torched you guys.

Mendenhall had a mildly successful day. If I recall correctly he ran for 99 yards and a touch.

Revis isn't scared of anyone. Typical delusional opposing fan when it comes to #24.

"Revis can't shut down Andre Johnson!"

"Revis can't shut down Calvin Johnson!"

"Revis can't shut down Reggie Wayne!"

Give me a break. The guy shuts down everyone.

And if Welker or Branch [them being the ESSENCE of quick hitters] or even Hernandez couldn't beat our "slow back-up secondary people," why will rookies Brown and Sanders do so?

Merchant
01-17-2011, 03:22 PM
1. Ben's escapability breaks down any coverage. I don't even think it's really possible to defend his sand-lot playmaking abilities once he gets out of the pocket.

2. Wallace, Sanders, Brown are all FAST. They can stretch the field vertically which is something the Colts' and Pats' receivers couldn't do. The Jets secondary will have to respect the deep ball and that will also open up things underneath for Hines and Heath.

MACH1
01-17-2011, 03:25 PM
Mendenhall had a mildly successful day. If I recall correctly he ran for 99 yards and a touch.

Revis isn't scared of anyone. Typical delusional opposing fan when it comes to #24.

"Revis can't shut down Andre Johnson!"

"Revis can't shut down Calvin Johnson!"

"Revis can't shut down Reggie Wayne!"

Give me a break. The guy shuts down everyone.

It's to bad you don't have eleven revis's. You got more to worry about than just Wallace.

frunko1
01-17-2011, 03:26 PM
the steelers offense is completely different then the colts or pats. We have quick speedy receivers, a run game, and a mobile qb who can throw on the run.

JetsFan17
01-17-2011, 03:26 PM
1. Ben's escapability breaks down any coverage. I don't even think it's really possible to defend his sand-lot playmaking abilities once he gets out of the pocket.

2. Wallace, Sanders, Brown are all FAST. They can stretch the field vertically which is something the Colts' and Pats' receivers couldn't do. The Jets secondary will have to respect the deep ball and that will also open up things underneath for Hines and Heath.

Good post. The deep ball is definitely a concern with Pitt unlike NE and IND. Luckily Revis and Cromartie can run with anyone, and the Jets have seen vastly imrpoved safety play in the playoffs from Brodney Pool and Eric Smith.

SteelCityMom
01-17-2011, 03:27 PM
Mendenhall had a mildly successful day. If I recall correctly he ran for 99 yards and a touch.

Revis isn't scared of anyone. Typical delusional opposing fan when it comes to #24.

"Revis can't shut down Andre Johnson!"

"Revis can't shut down Calvin Johnson!"

"Revis can't shut down Reggie Wayne!"

Give me a break. The guy shuts down everyone.

Yeah...but neither Revis or Cro shut down Wallace last game. He had over 100 yards, and it would have been more if it weren't for a PI call or two that went unflagged. :noidea:

In fact...Wallace averaged 14.6 yards/play and Sanders averaged 11.1/play. I wouldn't consider that "shutting them down". If I remember correctly, I think it was the Jets redzone defense that gave us fits. They've since corrected some of those woes. We'll see though.

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 03:28 PM
Mendenhall had a mildly successful day. If I recall correctly he ran for 99 yards and a touch.

Revis isn't scared of anyone. Typical delusional opposing fan when it comes to #24.

"Revis can't shut down Andre Johnson!"

"Revis can't shut down Calvin Johnson!"

"Revis can't shut down Reggie Wayne!"

Give me a break. The guy shuts down everyone.

And if Welker or Branch [them being the ESSENCE of quick hitters] or even Hernandez couldn't beat our "slow back-up secondary people," why will rookies Brown and Sanders do so?




Remind me again, how did Wallace look in that first game against Revis ? And all those other WR's barely can run a 4.65 forty. Let alone the 4.1 that Wallace
does :tt02: Just watch the game again,,,Revis was hanging way way back off Wallace. He never does that in the past. And lets say he does cover him, or gets away with the constant tugging on receivers jersies,,,just like Ty Law used to do. How then do you cover our other super speedy WR's ?

Fire Arians
01-17-2011, 03:28 PM
1. Ben's escapability breaks down any coverage. I don't even think it's really possible to defend his sand-lot playmaking abilities once he gets out of the pocket.

2. Wallace, Sanders, Brown are all FAST. They can stretch the field vertically which is something the Colts' and Pats' receivers couldn't do. The Jets secondary will have to respect the deep ball and that will also open up things underneath for Hines and Heath.

pretty much the case. Brady or Manning, if you manage to flush them out of the pocket, the play is over. you can guarantee an incomplete pass or negative play.

flush ben out of the pocket and you shoot yourself in the foot lol.

LukesDad88
01-17-2011, 03:28 PM
Baltimore thought they could stop us by taking Ward, Wallace, and Miller out of the game. That opened the opportunities for Sanders and Brown, who made play after play.

You can stop 2 of our receivers, maybe 3. That leaves 2 playmakers left.

Please play Ben the same way you played Manning and Brady. Please.

JetsFan17
01-17-2011, 03:31 PM
Remind me again, how did Wallace look in that first game against Revis ? And all those other WR's barely can run a 4.65 forty. Let alone the 4.1 that Wallace
does :tt02: Just watch the game again,,,Revis was hanging way way back off Wallace. He never does that in the past. And lets say he does cover him, or gets away with the constant tugging on receivers jersies,,,just like Ty Law used to do. How then do you cover our other super speedy WR's ?

They put Cromartie on Wallace presumably because they thought he'd be able to run with him. I didn't like that at all. Revis should have been on him from the start.

We'll cover your other super speedy WR's with our other CB's. :chuckle:

JetsFan17
01-17-2011, 03:32 PM
Baltimore thought they could stop us by taking Ward, Wallace, and Miller out of the game. That opened the opportunities for Sanders and Brown, who made play after play.

You can stop 2 of our receivers, maybe 3. That leaves 2 playmakers left.

Please play Ben the same way you played Manning and Brady. Please.

Unfortunately for you guys, I am just a fan on a message board. Rex Ryan will be coming up with the gameplans this week.

Fire Arians
01-17-2011, 03:32 PM
They put Cromartie on Wallace presumably because they thought he'd be able to run with him. I didn't like that at all. Revis should have been on him from the start.

We'll cover your other super speedy WR's with our other CB's. :chuckle:

that I agree with, I don't know what they were trying to do there. You're supposed to put your best corner on the best wr, and wallace is our best.

pete74
01-17-2011, 03:33 PM
we keep getting all these fans from different teams talking crap before we play them but its funny how they all disapear the second the game is over. i gurentee we wont see this jets fan after sunday night. he wont come back to say congrats on the steelers win

JetsFan17
01-17-2011, 03:35 PM
we keep getting all these fans from different teams talking crap before we play them but its funny how they all disapear the second the game is over. i gurentee we wont see this jets fan after sunday night. he wont come back to say congrats on the steelers win

I'll be here win or lose after the game.

Fire Arians
01-17-2011, 03:35 PM
we keep getting all these fans from different teams talking crap before we play them but its funny how they all disapear the second the game is over. i gurentee we wont see this jets fan after sunday night. he wont come back to say congrats on the steelers win

not always lol. to me the biggest surprise was the most influx of enemy fans we've had were from the bucs and bills. I would have expected more of a force from the ravens fanbase but there were just a few of em

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 03:36 PM
Unfortunately for you guys, I am just a fan on a message board. Rex Ryan will be coming up with the gameplans this week.





I'll tell you what,,,if I am looking for a Game plan on how to go from 165 Lbs, to 275 Lbs in under 72 hours,,,I will call Rex Ryan. But, if one wants a true genius to come up with a game plan, I will call Dick Lebeau :drink:

JetsFan17
01-17-2011, 03:38 PM
I'll tell you what,,,if I am looking for a Game plan on how to go from 165 Lbs, to 275 Lbs in under 72 hours,,,I will call Rex Ryan. But, if one wants a true genius to come up with a game plan, I will call Dick Lebeau :drink:

Touche. :applaudit:

pete74
01-17-2011, 03:38 PM
if Jay Cutler can spank the Jets for 3 td's and another rushing td a few weeks ago just think what the steelers can do

madtowndrunkard
01-17-2011, 03:38 PM
I expect the Jets to focus on taking away the deep ball 15 yards and deeper....and blitz like crazy. It will be up to Arians to take advantage of that defense and use plenty of screens and quick passes. The jets pass rush will be relentless.

I seems to me that the Jets ILBs' (Scott and Harris) are pretty slow. I think this could be a big opportunity for Heath and Moore to have a big game.

I also think we should be able to run on these guys. I think Mendy put up 100 yards the last time we faced them. If it were not for the kick return and the safety we easily dominate that game on the ground.

I don't like to say this but the last time I was this confident about a playoff game we got beat. I really hope the players don't lose focus because they are convinced this will be an easy win. I think that attitude cost the Saints and the Patriots this year.

Rotorhead
01-17-2011, 03:38 PM
We are well aware of how good revis is, we have our own revis in Ike ( maybe not quite on the same level but dam close ) only we play a different style of def than you do. Everyone underestimates Revis, well it is the same as Wallace and his speed. The difference with your list of shutdowns and Wallace are:
You didnt shut Wallace down in the first game
We don't run timing patterns like they do, so the bump and run aren't as effective
Ben doesn't have to be a pocket passer
And I would be thrilled if you only sacked Ben 4-5 times lol
The only thing that worries me about this game is special teams play.

SteelCityMom
01-17-2011, 03:48 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburgh-steelers/09000d5d81d0c7a3/QB-Roethlisberger-to-WR-Sanders-29-yd-pass

3rd and 24 with a little over a minute left in the game and Ben completes a 29 yard pass to Sanders.

One of the very few times Ben didn't complete a heroic game winning comeback. He was damn close though.

SteelCityMom
01-17-2011, 03:48 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburgh-steelers/09000d5d81d0c7a3/QB-Roethlisberger-to-WR-Sanders-29-yd-pass

3rd and 24 with a little over a minute left in the game and Ben completes a 29 yard pass to Sanders.

One of the very few times Ben didn't complete a heroic game winning comeback. He was damn close though.

JetsFan17
01-17-2011, 04:03 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburgh-steelers/09000d5d81d0c7a3/QB-Roethlisberger-to-WR-Sanders-29-yd-pass

3rd and 24 with a little over a minute left in the game and Ben completes a 29 yard pass to Sanders.

One of the very few times Ben didn't complete a heroic game winning comeback. He was damn close though.

When push came to shove, Ben couldn't beat the Jets coverage in crunch time. Fact.

Fire Arians
01-17-2011, 04:07 PM
When push came to shove, Ben couldn't beat the Jets coverage in crunch time. Fact.

you stopped him once, but can they do it again? :wink02:

ben with the ball with 2 minutes left in the game, you can't tell me with a straight face that you aren't crapping your pants

SuperSteelers
01-17-2011, 04:09 PM
When push came to shove, Ben couldn't beat the Jets coverage in crunch time. Fact.

So I think you are inferring that he won't be able to beat them come Sunday?

I don't think you've been watching Roethlisberger much.

Need4Sweed
01-17-2011, 04:10 PM
I say we find that db Baltimore was toasting all gm during wk 1...i believe he's a rookie from Boise State? i could be wrong.

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 04:11 PM
But the thing you forget is neither of those two teams have a running game like ours. And Mendenhall ran it down your throats last game. So, rush only 3 to 4, and we will make you pay on runs. Try to advance Coleman off the edge, and Antonio Brown or even Sanders will kill your slow back-up secondary people on short quick-hitters. Not to mention BOTH Revis and " Cro-Fro " are totally scared of Wallace, and will be way, way way off the line against him for fear of being beat deep. So the middle will be wide open for Wallace...just like in game 1 where he torched you guys.


revis has shut down way better recievers then wallace. and its no knock on wallace, but Andre johnson, brandon marshall, calvin johnson, brandon lloyd, greg jennings

By KC Joyner
Rex Ryan certainly has a knack for hyperbole, but his latest comment stating that Darrelle Revis is "the best player in football" wasn't just big talk.

The evidence for this can be found in the improvement in Revis' metrics over the course of the 2010 season.

From Weeks 1-6 (the time when Revis was still getting over his offseason rust and in-season injury), he posted the following stats: 22 targets, eight completions for 196 yards and three touchdowns. That equates to an 8.9 yards per attempt (YPA) mark, which is more than double his phenomenal 3.6 YPA total in 2009.

Now contrast that to his metric performance from Weeks 8-16 (Revis did not play in week 17): 35 targets, 11 completions, 153 yards. Take out the 10-yard offensive pass interference penalty he drew against Deion Branch in the Week 13 game against the Patriots and it equals 143 yards on 35 targets, or a 4.1 YPA.

That is very close to the type of YPA number that made Revis a Defensive Player of the Year candidate in 2009 and provides evidence that Ryan is right about his star cornerback's level of play. Revis Island is once again a place for opposing receivers to fear.

It's to bad you don't have eleven revis's. You got more to worry about than just Wallace.

very true but cro is the best #2 CB in the NFL

also how do you plan to cover BE, holmes, Keller, J-co, and LT out of teh backfield?

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 04:12 PM
When push came to shove, Ben couldn't beat the Jets coverage in crunch time. Fact.



You're right. But with Ben's BEST Red Zone target in Heath Miller now playing, you think that the Jets super slow, and Unathletic LB's can stay with Miller ? I mean David Harris is slower then Rexy Ryan. And all us steeler fans can remember back when Scott used to get torched by Miller when he was YOUNGER, and with Baltimore. So how do you stop us now ?

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 04:14 PM
I say we find that db Baltimore was toasting all gm during wk 1...i believe he's a rookie from Boise State? i could be wrong.

Thats was week 1 and toasted is an exaggeration.

Also he only plays in 4-5 CB sets. he doesn't play the nickel anymore this season. drew coleman is playing the nickel and doing very good, matter of fact he had 2 sacks and 2 FFs against ben earlier this season

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 04:15 PM
You're right. But with Ben's BEST Red Zone target in Heath Miller now playing, you think that the Jets super slow, and Unathletic LB's can stay with Miller ? I mean David Harris is slower then Rexy Ryan. And all us steeler fans can remember back when Scott used to get torched by Miller when he was YOUNGER, and with Baltimore. So how do you stop us now ?

and your LBers have a chance to run with keller right?
Also jets will mix coverage and probably have a safety (eric smith) covering miller

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 04:15 PM
Thats was week 1 and toasted is an exaggeration.

Also he only plays in 4-5 CB sets. he doesn't play the nickel anymore this season. drew coleman is playing the nickel and doing very good, matter of fact he had 2 sacks and 2 FFs against ben earlier this season




No he didn't. Look again.

Fire Arians
01-17-2011, 04:16 PM
also how do you plan to cover BE, holmes, Keller, J-co, and LT out of teh backfield?

your offense only scored 1 TD against us in the first meeting, I'm sure they are capable of the task.

special teams is the only area of the game I'm worried about, we can beat you in all other phases.

Keller won't have a field day, we probably have the best speed at the ILB position in the league. If you guys wanna keep dumping the ball off you'll see a lot of lawrence timmons.

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 04:20 PM
and your LBers have a chance to run with keller right?
Also jets will mix coverage and probably have a safety (eric smith) covering miller




Has Keller even scored in the past 12 weeks ? And, what did he do in the first
game ?...3 catches for 19 Yards :applaudit: As for a LB who can stay with him....our guy Tmmons can run with Braylon Edwards,,so yeah, I think he can stick with ANY TE in the league with his 4.40 forty time.

SH-Rock
01-17-2011, 04:23 PM
Did you forget how Mike Wallace blew your secondary, it was only due to blatant pass interferences which weren't flagged did he get stopped.

Fire Arians
01-17-2011, 04:24 PM
Did you forget how Mike Wallace blew your secondary, it was only due to blatant pass interferences which weren't flagged did he get stopped.

they're lucky that sanders and wallace haven't learned the 'jump around and yell at the ref when you get held' yet, or flags woulda definitely been thrown :chuckle:

they're young, still learning the 'tricks of the trade' ;)

ben4life
01-17-2011, 04:25 PM
When push came to shove, Ben couldn't beat the Jets coverage in crunch time. Fact.

Um, Ben had the game won at the end if Matt Spaeth doesn't drop a sure touchdown. Also, you need to worry about how Sanchez is going to handle the pressure with Troy Polamalu in the game. He's looked great agains Indy and New England, that IS NOT the same as the Steelers D.

SH-Rock
01-17-2011, 04:31 PM
they're lucky that sanders and wallace haven't learned the 'jump around and yell at the ref when you get held' yet, or flags woulda definitely been thrown :chuckle:

they're young, still learning the 'tricks of the trade' ;)

Exactly Sanders was clearly tugged by the jersey in the 4th quarter with 29 seconds left to go. I believe if that didn't happen it would've been a touchdown.

Buddha Bus
01-17-2011, 04:33 PM
Personally, I'd love to see how Wallace would match up with Revis. I want to see if Wallace can beat the "best in the game". I would not be worried about that battle at all. I have faith in what he can do. At the very least, he would open things up for somebody else. I honestly think Miller will be the big difference maker on offense though. He will definitely make the plays that Spaeth failed to in the first game. No way he drops a ball in the endzone that is right on the hands like Spaeth did.

steelers33
01-17-2011, 04:34 PM
Lol at Jets fan saying our LB are slow. Our secondary will be fine. Clark and Gay are playing well, while Ike is a top 5 CB(huge pro bowl snub) and Troy is better at his position than Revis is at his position. And to say your secondary won't be challenged will be silly. Sure you have a very good secondary but no pass rush whatsoever, and that is when Ben flourishes in improvising. We shouldn't lose unless we make another stupid mistake in special team or something. And I haven't even brought up the weakest player, Mark Sanchez.

cmdrfunk
01-17-2011, 04:39 PM
Um, Ben had the game won at the end if Matt Spaeth doesn't drop a sure touchdown..

Matt Spaeth dropped several balls in that game beyond just that TD pass. Miller is better than Spaeth all around and is VERY sure handed and will serve as a far better 'safety valve' than Spaeth did, not to mention that Miller can get yards after catch.

SoCalFan
01-17-2011, 04:45 PM
BOTTOM LINE,Steelers will stop the run forcing sanchez to beat,wait a minute,I cant even say it.NO EFFIN WAY is sanchez going into Heinz Field and beating the Steelers!With Troy and HEEEAAATTTHHH back,im thinking a 24-9 win.No dam kickoff returns this time!

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 04:59 PM
No he didn't. Look again.

yes he did
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010121911/2010/REG15/jets@steelers#tab:analyze
10 total tackles 2 sacks and 2 FFs

your offense only scored 1 TD against us in the first meeting, I'm sure they are capable of the task.

special teams is the only area of the game I'm worried about, we can beat you in all other phases.

Keller won't have a field day, we probably have the best speed at the ILB position in the league. If you guys wanna keep dumping the ball off you'll see a lot of lawrence timmons.

We tend to only score when we need to. IDK why but we do. jets controlled the game and scored to answer back when you guys finally took the lead

Has Keller even scored in the past 12 weeks ? And, what did he do in the first
game ?...3 catches for 19 Yards :applaudit: As for a LB who can stay with him....our guy Tmmons can run with Braylon Edwards,,so yeah, I think he can stick with ANY TE in the league with his 4.40 forty time.

we spread the ball around alot. 4 players with 50-60 catches (keler, holmes, BE, LT) thats an equal distribution. and any of them can step up. NE was so focused on BE and holmes that cochery had 100 yards. oh and holmes and BE each had TDs too

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 05:01 PM
Lol at Jets fan saying our LB are slow. Our secondary will be fine. Clark and Gay are playing well, while Ike is a top 5 CB(huge pro bowl snub) and Troy is better at his position than Revis is at his position. And to say your secondary won't be challenged will be silly. Sure you have a very good secondary but no pass rush whatsoever, and that is when Ben flourishes in improvising. We shouldn't lose unless we make another stupid mistake in special team or something. And I haven't even brought up the weakest player, Mark Sanchez.

Thats not even close. Troy does not have the ability to single handedly eliminate the opposing teams best WR. Troy is great at what he does, but revis at CB can only be compared to what manning and brady are at QB. revis is considered a top 5 player in the game,

SoCalFan
01-17-2011, 05:02 PM
You spread the ball this,new england that.THATS AGAINST THEM,NOT OUR DEFENSE!!!

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 05:03 PM
yes he did
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010121911/2010/REG15/jets@steelers#tab:analyze
10 total tackles 2 sacks and 2 FFs



We tend to only score when we need to. IDK why but we do. jets controlled the game and scored to answer back when you guys finally took the lead



we spread the ball around alot. 4 players with 50-60 catches (keler, holmes, BE, LT) thats an equal distribution. and any of them can step up. NE was so focused on BE and holmes that cochery had 100 yards. oh and holmes and BE each had TDs too





Yeah that's great son...and against WHO did they do this against ? What great defense ? If you forget where the Pats are ranked,,,why not ask Bart Scott :applaudit:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJshw2Axsqc

SoCalFan
01-17-2011, 05:04 PM
Thats not even close. Troy does not have the ability to single handedly eliminate the opposing teams best WR. Troy is great at what he does, but revis at CB can only be compared to what manning and brady are at QB. revis is considered a top 5 player in the game,

Our defense creates turnovers,most are a tribute to the fierce pass rush.Sanchez will be battered and confused by the 3rd!:tt03:

madtowndrunkard
01-17-2011, 05:07 PM
I hate to say this but I think what the Jets did to the Patriots pretty much shows our last meeting meant nothing to either team.

This is for a trip to the SB. Expect both teams to bring it....and expect a totally different mind set from both teams.

Curtain_of_Steel
01-17-2011, 05:11 PM
Did that fat ass foot sniffing Ryan send his croonies over here to distract again from the obvious? The media falls for it each week.

When are people are going to call out Sanchez about his choke-ability? Rex isn't the only one who has zero confidence in his QB, the jets fans feel the same way. I employ 8 of those little minions, and 7 would hand over one of their kids for Big Ben behind Mangold than the pretty boy Sanchoke.

If I recall it wasn't so much the offense that cost the game. The special teams sort of handed over a xmas present, 2 starters were out. Wallace and Mendy had good games. Not they have to watch 3 wr's long, and ward in the slot? Good luck!

Hell your coach took the ball out of his hand several times in key spots. Hows that for confidence in your star QB.

sarahpalinhater
01-17-2011, 05:12 PM
:bomb:And would someone please give Ole Barty a Hypertention pill....before the dude explodes!! :bomb::bomb::bomb:

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 06:00 PM
once again you realize we already beat you and your pass rush did nothing?

StainlessStill
01-17-2011, 06:08 PM
once again you realize we already beat you and your pass rush did nothing?

Hey now, easy and think twice before you start bringing up the regular season. We are both 1-0. Jets fans more than anyone should not bring up the 'we already beat you' comment since N.E squashed you like little stink bugs.

We are very aware of our last game against you, but remember that you were VERY lucky and fortunate to come away with a W, VERY fortunate.

43Hitman
01-17-2011, 06:13 PM
Hey now, easy and think twice before you start bringing up the regular season. We are both 1-0. Jets fans more than anyone should not bring up the 'we already beat you' comment since N.E squashed you like little stink bugs.

We are very aware of our last game against you, but remember that you were VERY lucky and fortunate to come away with a W, VERY fortunate.

Yep, Its a completely different game with Troy and Miller in that game, even with the opening kickoff return. I implore our new Jets friend to watch that game again tonight on NFLN, and ask himself what's going to happen when all the coverages are different and we have our consistent passcatching/runblocking TE in the game.

PhantomJB93
01-17-2011, 06:24 PM
I wouldn't exactly say they "stumped" Peyton Manning, from what I remember Peyton had his way with them for the most part but the Colts Defense was like swiss cheese and ended up handing the win ot the Jets offense. The Patriots game was different, they actually shut down Brady for the first 3 quarters, but the Colts game I would say was more due to their offense getting a lucky, really good matchup versus a very bad and heavily injured defense then Rex Ryan "stopping" Peyton Manning...

Rick5895
01-17-2011, 06:25 PM
When push came to shove, Ben couldn't beat the Jets coverage in crunch time. Fact.

Heath didn't play, had to rely on Spaeth.

StainlessStill
01-17-2011, 06:25 PM
Can Ben beat the Jets coverage?

I have a better question.

Can the Jets hold our receivers as well as they did last game?

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 06:29 PM
Hey now, easy and think twice before you start bringing up the regular season. We are both 1-0. Jets fans more than anyone should not bring up the 'we already beat you' comment since N.E squashed you like little stink bugs.

We are very aware of our last game against you, but remember that you were VERY lucky and fortunate to come away with a W, VERY fortunate.

my point was at least NE had a valid argument, you guys make it sound like you killed us already and will do so again. I think alot of you are overrating your players

Yep, Its a completely different game with Troy and Miller in that game, even with the opening kickoff return. I implore our new Jets friend to watch that game again tonight on NFLN, and ask himself what's going to happen when all the coverages are different and we have our consistent passcatching/runblocking TE in the game.

and what is ben gonna do when he is getting hit all game?

I wouldn't exactly say they "stumped" Peyton Manning, from what I remember Peyton had his way with them for the most part but the Colts Defense was like swiss cheese and ended up handing the win ot the Jets offense. The Patriots game was different, they actually shut down Brady for the first 3 quarters, but the Colts game I would say was more due to their offense getting a lucky, really good matchup versus a very bad and heavily injured defense then Rex Ryan "stopping" Peyton Manning...
we stumped him completely. even Trevor Pryce said the jets ran a "madden" defense

HAWK
01-17-2011, 06:33 PM
I see us winning this one. I think the offense will struggle, especially early on, against the Jets D. However, I look for Sanchez and Co. to REALLY struggle against our D. I think it will be close, and as long as we don't allow another special teams run back we can win this one somewhat comfortably.

What really bothers me is how do we shut down the Packers?? That will be our greatest challenge.

StainlessStill
01-17-2011, 06:34 PM
Heath didn't play, had to rely on Spaeth.

^This. If the Jetsfan can remember, Ben actually had his way with that Jets defense all game and established long sustainable drives for around 90 some yards I believe without looking at the stats. And did you know, that we were on the 2 yard line with a chance to win the game? Our backup tight end, Matt Spaeth, dropped two....count them....two pass's right in his hands.

Ben clutched just fine, it was his backup tight end who failed and was one catch away from you coming here saying "You got US last time, now we're ready" attitude!
http://www.mysanantonio.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=483658&width=628&height=471
http://files.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2010-12-19/SpaethDrop-a.jpg

Something tells me there won't be any Spaeth/Crumpler drops this time.

HAWK
01-17-2011, 06:37 PM
Injuries and special teams play is what beat us. I was more worried about the Ravens than I am about the Jets.

StainlessStill
01-17-2011, 06:42 PM
my point was at least NE had a valid argument, you guys make it sound like you killed us already and will do so again. I think alot of you are overrating your players


I wouldn't say we killed you, but take a look at the stat sheet my friend, I know the score-board says otherwise, but other than that the Steelers out-performed you in every category (total yards: 378/276) first downs (25/17) 3rd down (11/15; 6/13) rushing (146/106) passing (232/170) T.O.P (31:18/28:42)

Point is, is that the Steelers were victim of a safety, and a kick return that almost 100% of the time, solidifies a teams strategy, ESP going into Heinz on the OPENING kickoff. Other than that, I think the Steelers can handle your attack, esp with Heath and Troy in the lineup.

As far as overrating our players, you do realize most of the core is still around from the '05 AND the '08 teams? 2 Super Bowl titles and experience on the line.

43Hitman
01-17-2011, 06:44 PM
and what is ben gonna do when he is getting hit all game?

He was sacked 6 times by the Ravens, and their dline and linebackers are better than what the Jets bring, and it still didn't help them. I'm not worried in the least bit about Ben getting hit, in fact, he plays better after a hit or two, so bring it.

StainlessStill
01-17-2011, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by Jetsfan115
and what is ben gonna do when he is getting hit all game?

Dude, you might want to in-tune your smack and get more educated on your blabbling. I know your fired up, as are we, but you should know better if you've EVER watched Ben Roethlisberger play. The dude welcomes pain, and didn't even think about blinking OR flinching when his nose was off the side of his face, only to get the job done in a fine performance against Baltimore, in their house.

Smack is one thing, but don't smack Ben's toughness, that's a losing cause 100 times outta 100!

LukesDad88
01-17-2011, 06:59 PM
At that point, we essentially had the division and second seed locked up. Does anybody here honestly think LeBeau and Tomlin showed the Jets anything in that game, or really worried about it too much knowing there was a decent shot at a rematch somewhere down the road? Steelers ran vanilla coverages and vanilla sets. It was the pre-season part 2.

StainlessStill
01-17-2011, 07:08 PM
At that point, we essentially had the division and second seed locked up. Does anybody here honestly think LeBeau and Tomlin showed the Jets anything in that game, or really worried about it too much knowing there was a decent shot at a rematch somewhere down the road? Steelers ran vanilla coverages and vanilla sets. It was the pre-season part 2.

If we would have won, then the second seed looked great but because of the loss, then that meant we HAD to win the last two against Carolina AND Cleveland to win the division AND the second seed. By no means did we have the division locked up but we kept Troy out for pre-caution reasons.

stb_steeler
01-17-2011, 07:08 PM
we keep getting all these fans from different teams talking crap before we play them but its funny how they all disapear the second the game is over. i gurentee we wont see this jets fan after sunday night. he wont come back to say congrats on the steelers win

bobbyjr. where are u?????? :kick:

MasterOfPuppets
01-17-2011, 07:18 PM
Mendenhall had a mildly successful day. If I recall correctly he ran for 99 yards and a touch.

Revis isn't scared of anyone. Typical delusional opposing fan when it comes to #24.

"Revis can't shut down Andre Johnson!"

"Revis can't shut down Calvin Johnson!"

"Revis can't shut down Reggie Wayne!"

Give me a break. The guy shuts down everyone.

And if Welker or Branch [them being the ESSENCE of quick hitters] or even Hernandez couldn't beat our "slow back-up secondary people," why will rookies Brown and Sanders do so?
but those 99 yds were on only 17 carries.
what will sanders do ? he had 7 receptions for 70 yds the last game , which is more than what holmes did.
keep in mind, heath miller didn't play the last game either.

Atlanta Dan
01-17-2011, 07:49 PM
Good discussion by Mike Lombardi of NFL Network on Steelers having match-up problems with the Jets in this podcast with Sports Guy Bill Simmons (ignore Simmons comments - he is in mourning for the Pats collapse so he now apparently regards the Jets to have become the 1986 Giants)

Lombardi's main point - Revis will take Wallace out of the game so it is up to Brown and Sanders to make the plays - Lombardi likes our young receivers and says the Steelers will be a top 5 offense next season as the young receivers mature and the Steelers try to fix the O-line problems, but concludes the current O-line mess and the young receivers perhaps not being quite ready yet for prime time will cause problems for the Steelers

The Steelers part of the discussion runs from around the 13:45 mark of the podcast to around 25:00

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?callsign=ESPNRADIO&autoplay=1&id=6031067

Steelers will have trouble scoring but I think Sanchez is in for a wild ride with the Steelers LBs assuming Harrison is healthy enough - first team to 20 wins

sharkweek
01-17-2011, 07:51 PM
Manning and Brady have always enjoyed outstanding pass blocking, sending rushers at them typically doesn't work unless you have some of the absolute best players doing so. Of course even with only 3 or 4 rushers you can still manage to pressure non-mobile QBs like Manning an Brady if the DBs give you enough time with excellent coverage. Either way, the key to beating Manning or Brady is to make them uncomfortable.

The major plus side to Ben is he doesn't exactly get uncomfortable, he thrives on pressure like no other QB.

Combine that with the fact that our young WRs are some of the fastest players in the league and our passing attack is suddenly a whole different animal.

But I'm not worried, no body respects our passing attack enough to make the game plan different from making sure they try and take away our running game first.

fer522
01-17-2011, 08:16 PM
"Revis can't shut down Andre Johnson!"

matt schaub
"Revis can't shut down Calvin Johnson!"


Stafford Matthew Hill Shaun Robinson Zac

"Revis can't shut down Reggie Wayne!"

payton manning with no other receiver

Give me a break. The guy shuts down everyone.


and when he does not he'll fake an injury :chuckle:


And if Welker or Branch [them being the ESSENCE of quick hitters] or even Hernandez couldn't beat our "slow back-up secondary people," why will rookies Brown and Sanders do so?

we got Ben who's better than those guys IMO and Ward, Miller, Wallace, Sanders, Brown, and even Randal El, some of the fastes Wide receivers in the game
and let's not forget about our running backs.I like our chances

tony hipchest
01-17-2011, 08:38 PM
very true but cro is the best #2 CB in the NFL

also how do you plan to cover BE, holmes, Keller, J-co, and LT out of teh backfield?

to quote the infamous jeff spicoli-

ahhww... those guys are fags!


we plan to cover them exactly the same way we covered fitz, bolding, and breaston in the superbowl (all 3 superior to the jets nondescript wr's).

if we have to play nickle we will be fine. gay, ike, and mcfadden are all well equipped and used to the spotlight. ike and b-mac are 2X world champions.

in 05 we shut down the top 4 offenses and 4 of the leagues best wr corps, including the bengals, colts, and seahawks.

as for LT out of the backfield we have our own LT who is bigger, faster, and stronger than anyone you can run at him or put out at end.

that still leaves troy and clark at our disposal. dont forget we shut down the nfl's fastest player, chris johnson, 2 years in a row, and troy has no problem tackling him in the backfield.

LT dosnt scare anyone. our same guys had a year after year habit of punking tomlinson when he was in his prime with the chargers.

it is so funny how EVERY teams fanbase suddenly thinks their team has the best offense in the NFL the week they face the steelers.

thats cute.

but the reality of the matter is, year after year the steelers are the best defense in the league.

i dont think we have to worry about anyone on your offense to cover. i think the jets need to worry how they are gonna generate some offense without the benefit of 9 points from their special teams and defense.

remember... our defense held your offense below its league leading 14.5 points allowed per game.

LVSteelersfan
01-17-2011, 08:52 PM
I hope they put Cromartie on Wallace again. Heath Miller, Sanders or Brown will be open if Hines and Wallace are covered. They have got that quick slant down pat since the last time these two teams played. Both of them are faster than any of your linebackers or safeties.

The key to this game is how Sanchez handles a pressure situation in a HUGE game. Yesterday's game may have been a pressure cooker but it is nothing like the championship game that sends you to the Super Bowl. I don't think Sanchez has it in him (go back to last year's AFCCG and tell me he handles pressure well) and the Steelers will shut down the running game cold. Ben can handle himself in pressure situations. I am not worried about the Jets defense on Ben.

SmashmouthFootball
01-17-2011, 08:58 PM
Thats not even close. Troy does not have the ability to single handedly eliminate the opposing teams best WR. Troy is great at what he does, but revis at CB can only be compared to what manning and brady are at QB. revis is considered a top 5 player in the game,

No, Troy has the ability to single-handedly eliminate whichever part of a teams overall scheme LeBeau decides he wants eliminated while at the same time being a threat to make a big play at the biggest time.

Nobody in their right minds would rather have Revis over Polamalu. Polamalu is going to go down as one of the best safeties ever to lace em up.

SH-Rock
01-17-2011, 09:13 PM
I think what's also is important is that we should use the pass to set up the run. And to start strong. I'm saying maybe 10 points in the first quarter. The Jets have not scored a TD in the first quarter since week 4. Force them to play catch up and this will result in Sanchez making some stupid plays.

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 09:55 PM
No, Troy has the ability to single-handedly eliminate whichever part of a teams overall scheme LeBeau decides he wants eliminated while at the same time being a threat to make a big play at the biggest time.

Nobody in their right minds would rather have Revis over Polamalu. Polamalu is going to go down as one of the best safeties ever to lace em up.

your 100% wrong. there have been other safties just as dominent in recent history.
brian dawkins
john lynce
ed reed
sean taylor (RIP)

and thats just a few. the only player you can compare to revis in the past 20 years is primetime

SteelCityMom
01-17-2011, 09:59 PM
your 100% wrong. there have been other safties just as dominent in recent history.
brian dawkins
john lynce
ed reed
sean taylor (RIP)

and thats just a few. the only player you can compare to revis in the past 20 years is primetime

Uhhh...Rod Woodson?

And even going into today's players...Champ Bailey, Nnamdi Asomugha, Asante Samuel, Leon Hall?

43Hitman
01-17-2011, 10:15 PM
Uhhh...Rod Woodson?

And even going into today's players...Champ Bailey, Nnamdi Asomugha, Asante Samuel, Leon Hall?

Deon Sander, Charles Woodson

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 10:17 PM
Uhhh...Rod Woodson?

And even going into today's players...Champ Bailey, Nnamdi Asomugha, Asante Samuel, Leon Hall?


that list is a joke.

baily - that could be arguable i'll give you him
aso? only covers number 2 WRs
Samual - is a zone corner. he's great at it but never mans up
leon hall? are u kidding? not even the best CB on his team
rod woodson? great CB but not as good or even close. also that was back when CBs could rough up WRs and it was legal. for that matter you can say ty law

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 10:18 PM
Deon Sander, Charles Woodson


i said deon sanders (who do you think primetime is?)
woodson? please guy was pretty good, tehn sucked for like 3 years and the packers took a chance on him and he's played very well compiling stats out of blitzes and off coverages, but doesn't man up #1s. also he's not the best CB on his team lol.

43Hitman
01-17-2011, 10:20 PM
i said deon sanders (who do you think primetime is?)
woodson? please guy was pretty good, tehn sucked for like 3 years and the packers took a chance on him and he's played very well compiling stats out of blitzes and off coverages, but doesn't man up #1s. also he's not the best CB on his team lol.

missed your original primetime.

43Hitman
01-17-2011, 10:22 PM
that list is a joke.

baily - that could be arguable i'll give you him
aso? only covers number 2 WRs
Samual - is a zone corner. he's great at it but never mans up
leon hall? are u kidding? not even the best CB on his team
rod woodson? great CB but not as good or even close. also that was back when CBs could rough up WRs and it was legal. for that matter you can say ty law

Okay GTFO you lost all credibility. Rod freaking Woodson made the NFL's 75th anniversary team while still an ACTIVE player. Revis couldn't hold Woodsons jock EVER. EVER!

SteelCityMom
01-17-2011, 11:02 PM
that list is a joke.

baily - that could be arguable i'll give you him
aso? only covers number 2 WRs
Samual - is a zone corner. he's great at it but never mans up
leon hall? are u kidding? not even the best CB on his team
rod woodson? great CB but not as good or even close. also that was back when CBs could rough up WRs and it was legal. for that matter you can say ty law

Yeah, seriously...Woodson not as good or even close? Now the homer in you is really coming out lol.

You do know he was recently inducted into the HOF right? I mean, he only ranks third ALL TIME in interceptions lol (amongst many other accolades).

It's ok though, you can think Woodson and the rest of that list are a joke and that Revis is a god. Won't change the fact that someone will burn him on Sunday. :wink02:

By the way, I have no issues with Revis being successful...most NFL athletes out of Pittsburgh are. It's way, way early to start comparing him to HOFers like Sanders and Woodson though lol.

hat was back when CBs could rough up WRs and it was legal

No, that was in the 70's the rule was changed (Mel Blount rule...another great Steelers CB). You couldn't rough up WR's in the 90's and '00's.

SteelCityMom
01-17-2011, 11:11 PM
i said deon sanders (who do you think primetime is?)
woodson? please guy was pretty good, tehn sucked for like 3 years and the packers took a chance on him and he's played very well compiling stats out of blitzes and off coverages, but doesn't man up #1s. also he's not the best CB on his team lol.

He beat out Revis for DPOY last year. Someone disagrees with you lol.

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 11:14 PM
Yeah, seriously...Woodson not as good or even close? Now the homer in you is really coming out lol.

You do know he was recently inducted into the HOF right? I mean, he only ranks third ALL TIME in interceptions lol (amongst many other accolades).

It's ok though, you can think Woodson and the rest of that list are a joke and that Revis is a god. Won't change the fact that someone will burn him on Sunday. :wink02:

By the way, I have no issues with Revis being successful...most NFL athletes out of Pittsburgh are. It's way, way early to start comparing him to HOFers like Sanders and Woodson though lol.



No, that was in the 70's the rule was changed (Mel Blount rule...another great Steelers CB). You couldn't rough up WR's in the 90's and '00's.


i'm not knocking woodson, but forget INTs you cant get them when your not thrown at. revis eliminates #1s by himself

Fire Arians
01-17-2011, 11:14 PM
woodson is one of the best cb's to ever play the game, revis doesn't compare yet, and maybe never will. you ain't gonna be in the HoF if your name rhymes with penis

Jetsfan115
01-17-2011, 11:15 PM
He beat out Revis for DPOY last year. Someone disagrees with you lol.


its a stat driven league. he had alot of sacks. revis never blitzes. he's too valuable in coverage.

also revis beat woodson out for 1st team all pro last year.

SH-Rock
01-17-2011, 11:19 PM
Okay GTFO you lost all credibility. Rod freaking Woodson made the NFL's 75th anniversary team while still an ACTIVE player. Revis couldn't hold Woodsons jock EVER. EVER!

Really Rod Woodson could destroy recievers? I think they changed all that when they had the Mel Blount rule.

Back to the original question. To finally answer your question, check the last drive of the last game we played. We moved down the field pretty quickly and you're coverage was blown away. It was because of our TE Spaeth who first blocked Sanders from catching the ball in the endzone and second didn't catch the ball as time expired. If we had Heath that was a win.

OX1947
01-17-2011, 11:20 PM
Okay GTFO you lost all credibility. Rod freaking Woodson made the NFL's 75th anniversary team while still an ACTIVE player. Revis couldn't hold Woodsons jock EVER. EVER!

Exactly. Rod Woodson was the most complete defensive back in the history of the NFL. He could cover, collect INTs, play safety, run like carl lewis and knock you into next week.

SteelCityMom
01-17-2011, 11:25 PM
i'm not knocking woodson, but forget INTs you cant get them when your not thrown at. revis eliminates #1s by himself

You think Woodson didn't do the same? Come on now. And if interceptions don't matter, then why are you bringing up Sanders? Woodson beats out Sanders in INT's, INT return yards and INT's returned for TDs. And you think QB's were just throwing it his way all the time? Not so...he was a ballhawk, like Troy. That's why he eventually became a Safety as well as a CB.

Woodson didn't just play CB either, he was also a safety and kick returner (got sent to the Pro Bowl as all 3).

Again, I think Revis is extremely talented...it's just hilarious to hear him compared to Woodson and Sanders...and even called better. Maybe one day he will be, right now though...he's not even close.

tony hipchest
01-17-2011, 11:30 PM
pouncey is better than nick mangold.

FanSince72
01-17-2011, 11:30 PM
Playing against Ben is a lot different than playing Manning or Brady because New England and Indy are teams that rely heavily on timing and systems. Receivers run precise routes and balls are thrown to empty spaces in anticipation of the receiver arriving at that space at just the right moment.

Part of the reason for the Jet's success against both of those teams is first the man coverage but second was the fact that both teams were stacked with either rookies or second-team receivers due to injuries of the starters. That wreaks hell with timing and systems because even a slight miscalculation or a bump or a late/early cut tends to throw things off.

With Ben, the receivers run specific routes, but then the fun starts. Because Ben can move around so much (and actually prefers it), a lot of what happens is improvisation and he watches the receivers and they watch him and whether it's chemistry or subtle movements he sees what they're doing or where they're headed and he decides what to do at that point.

That's why he's so hard to defend against because he doesn't rely on timing but relies more on real-time movement which can be almost anything. Ben's whole approach to the game is to start of with a basic play but everyone knows that that's only the beginning and that the real creativity comes later, so there is no system or precision passing as much as it's improv.

Put another way, if you were to draw an analogy to music for those three teams, Indy would be Classical, New England would be ProgRock while the Steelers would be Jazz because in Jazz, it isn't so much about the notes on the chart as it is about feeling the groove..

SH-Rock
01-17-2011, 11:47 PM
I think you hit it spot on.