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View Full Version : 3rd and 6 - Tomlin vs Cowher


ETL
01-24-2011, 08:39 AM
I love Cowher's legacy as a Steeler HC but on that last play, he would have called a run while Tomlin went for the kill with the pass. That in a nut shell is the difference between Cowher and Tomlin

4xSBChamps
01-24-2011, 08:43 AM
Greenberg on ESPN was just giving kudos to Tomlin, Roethlisberger, and the staff for making that call:
last week against New England, under very similar circumstances, the Jets ran 3 straight plays

SeinfeldNut
01-24-2011, 08:43 AM
I agree, Cowher would have just run it to Mendenhall up the middle for 2 yards, punted and try to get the defense to get one more stop. Yeah, Tomlin likes to gamble on these type of situations, I give him and Arians a ton of credit for calling a pass play on 3rd down. I am so glad Big Ben got it to Antonio Brown, who knows what would have happened had he dropped that pass & we would have had to punt it away.

NYC_Steeler
01-24-2011, 08:45 AM
Gutsy call - and yes, Cowher would've been conservative: play not to lose.

dcbng
01-24-2011, 08:47 AM
The Steelers surprised the crap out of me lining up in the spread. Brown learned not to give up on a play and continued to fight thru the LB on the simple drag pattern.

plenewken
01-24-2011, 08:48 AM
I agree, Cowher would have just run it to Mendenhall up the middle for 2 yards, punted and try to get the defense to get one more stop. Yeah, Tomlin likes to gamble on these type of situations, I give him and Arians a ton of credit for calling a pass play on 3rd down. I am so glad Big Ben got it to Antonio Brown, who knows what would have happened had he dropped that pass & we would have had to punt it away.

I think Cowher would have never made these calls, but 2nd and 9 to Miller was gutsier than 3rd and 6 to Brown, IMO

SeinfeldNut
01-24-2011, 08:59 AM
I think Cowher would have never made these calls, but 2nd and 9 to Miller was gutsier than 3rd and 6 to Brown, IMO

Yeah I agree, Cowher would be very conservative in that spot. Yeah, that was a huge catch by Miller, I thought it was almost going to be picked for a second there.

FanSince72
01-24-2011, 09:02 AM
I love Cowher's legacy as a Steeler HC but on that last play, he would have called a run while Tomlin went for the kill with the pass. That in a nut shell is the difference between Cowher and Tomlin

I agree 100%!

"Martyball" versus "Play to Win"

And that's all that's being talked about today on Mike and Mike; that Ben / Tomlin / Arians decided to play to win as opposed to punting and hoping for the best.

One other thing that nobody's talking about is the pass to Miller before the two-minute warning that put us in that position in the first place. THAT play was in many ways a "gutsier" play than the one to A.B. because if we punted then, the Jets would have had the ball with much more time as well as timeouts.

Not to mention the fact that Ben's pass was a bit behind Miller and Miller had defenders within arm's reach of him. He went back for that ball and snatched it at just the right moment.

So, by comparison (and not to take anything away from A.B.), Miller's play was actually tougher and had more on the line than A.B.'s catch did.

SeinfeldNut
01-24-2011, 09:07 AM
I agree 100%!

"Martyball" versus "Play to Win"

And that's all that's being talked about today on Mike and Mike; that Ben / Tomlin / Arians decided to play to win as opposed to punting and hoping for the best.

One other thing that nobody's talking about is the pass to Miller before the two-minute warning that put us in that position in the first place. THAT play was in many ways a "gutsier" play than the one to A.B. because if we punted then, the Jets would have had the ball with much more time as well as timeouts.

Not to mention the fact that Ben's pass was a bit behind Miller and Miller had defenders within arm's reach of him. He went back for that ball and snatched it at just the right moment.

So, by comparison (and not to take anything away from A.B.), Miller's play was actually tougher and had more on the line than A.B.'s catch did.

Yep, the ball got their about one second earlier than the defender did and Miller did a great job of getting both hands around the ball.

GMU Steeler
01-24-2011, 09:08 AM
Yeah I liked Coach Cowher but there's little doubt to me that he would have ran in that situation. Gutsy call by Coach Tomlin there. I'm real glad we have him.

El Nino
01-24-2011, 09:15 AM
tomlin definitely takes more risks, but i wonder if this kinda call was due to the qb situation. with kordell stewart at qb i'd run the ball. tomlin has ben who is probably the best qb in the league when making clutch plays

Devil's D
01-24-2011, 09:20 AM
It took huge sack to call both of those plays, and I dont think Cowher would have made those calls. Im confident that the D could have kept the Jets out of the end zone, but Im glad it did not come down to that last night!

However, Cowher would NEVER have let the Jets back into the game after being up by 14 going into the 4thI think that he only lost one/ tied one game after having a 10pt lead in the 4th ? I was at the loss in Cincinnati.

CargoJon
01-24-2011, 09:25 AM
I was pissed the whole second half because it never felt like, when we had them down, we were trying to step on their throat for the kill.

That play was the first time the entire 2nd half I felt like we were actually going for the kill shot. Kudos to everyone including Ben and AB.

FanSince72
01-24-2011, 09:49 AM
I was pissed the whole second half because it never felt like, when we had them down, we were trying to step on their throat for the kill.

That play was the first time the entire 2nd half I felt like we were actually going for the kill shot. Kudos to everyone including Ben and AB.

In my opinion, the "kill shot" is a question of context.

We made the kill shot by shutting them out right up until the waning seconds of the first half. We totally dominated them, had both offensive and defensive scores and thoroughly beat them in all phases.

Tomlin certainly knew that Ryan would regroup and come out swinging in the second half and he simply let them swing. You know, a 21-point lead is nothing to sneeze at and it's a helluva cushion to play with. So why risk a "highlight reel" play when a "Rope-a-dope" approach is the wiser choice?

I think Tomlin & Co. played it just right.

I know that this game may not have had the "Big Finish" that everyone seems to think ought to go with championship games, but for me there was more than enough drama to go around and from a strategic point of view, it was well played.

madtowndrunkard
01-24-2011, 09:57 AM
AT that second...in the exact same situation... I also think Cowher would have ran it. But who knows, we might have still got the 1st down?


It's not something you can really compare though. If Cowher were the HC I highly doubt Arians would be our OC. I also think we probably wouldn't have been in the situation in the first place. Bill Cowher's teams never gave up that many points in the 2nd half.

tube517
01-24-2011, 09:59 AM
Cowher would've ran a shotgun draw in that situation. Probable Result: Loss of 3 yds

4xSBChamps
01-24-2011, 10:04 AM
in-defense of Cowher, if he'd had Bettis back there, it's possible that he'd have gained 3 yards on both 1st & 2nd down, making that a 3rd & 4, so another run wouldn't have-been so bad

throwing the ball was a great call

Steelthe#1dynasty
01-24-2011, 10:48 AM
I love Cowher's legacy as a Steeler HC but on that last play, he would have called a run while Tomlin went for the kill with the pass. That in a nut shell is the difference between Cowher and Tomlin

Obviously, we'll never know. Perhaps Cowher would have begun to trust Ben. Do you recall Cowher in 2005 when he finally opened up the passing the playoffs. I don't know know if I agree. However, give Tomlin, Ben, and Arians some credit.

LambertIsGod58
01-24-2011, 11:17 AM
I have to be honest and say I wasn't a fan of the hiring of Tomlin several years ago. But man, I couldn't have been more wrong. The Rooneys always seem to do that. Prove me wrong. Noll, Cowher and now Tomlin. 3 coaches in the last 40 years and each of them will have been to multiple Super Bowls. Just lucky to be a fan of the greatest organization in the league. On and off the field.

SeinfeldNut
01-24-2011, 11:24 AM
I have to be honest and say I wasn't a fan of the hiring of Tomlin several years ago. But man, I couldn't have been more wrong. The Rooneys always seem to do that. Prove me wrong. Noll, Cowher and now Tomlin. 3 coaches in the last 40 years and each of them will have been to multiple Super Bowls. Just lucky to be a fan of the greatest organization in the league. On and off the field.

Could not agree more, very blessed to be rooting for this organization and joining a great fanbase!

Pentheon
01-24-2011, 11:29 AM
I'm glad we passed it, 2 3rd down plays we did that drive..thats what we needed. I mean you could run it, stay in bounds and keep the clock going then punt it and give them bad field position (or they have a good return on our ST) but I like the play call there, I would of done the same if I was the coach.

harts
01-24-2011, 11:39 AM
Cowher had neil odonnell or a young #7
Tomlin has a seasoned #7

Cowher did play safe to much
But the Steelers didnt score a point in the second half
So they were playing not to lose until the last drive.

That San Diego championship game we lost - we should have won that one but I don't think they would have beat the niners that year

but we should have beat the Cowboys in the big game

Cowher has 1 Super Bowl - I dont think he has the drive to get another one - If he was serious about coaching he would have a job right now instead of trying to wait for the "perfect" situaton
Cowher did his job although it took 14 years to do it

Tomlin was clearly not satisfied with just 1 Super Bow winl - he seems to want more than Noll
and he is clearly driven
#7 and Tomlin are a good match - Steelers will win more Super Bowls in the future with these 2

therefore
Tomlin > Cowher

realdeal
01-24-2011, 11:40 AM
Yes!! Bill Cowher would have put his tail between his legs and would have ran the ball!!

Thats why he only won one SB!! With all that talent, he should have won 2-3!! You can thank Ben for your only SB Cowher!! The guy you didn't want to draft!! LOL

I hope that big jaw freak picks the Packers to win!!

SeinfeldNut
01-24-2011, 11:42 AM
I'm glad we passed it, 2 3rd down plays we did that drive..thats what we needed. I mean you could run it, stay in bounds and keep the clock going then punt it and give them bad field position (or they have a good return on our ST) but I like the play call there, I would of done the same if I was the coach.

Yeah me too, don't even give them a chance to have a good punt return or hit a couple of big pass plays, love the aggressive play calling.

HAWK
01-24-2011, 12:07 PM
Tomlin said in his postgame interview that he refused to start playing "not to lose." He was playing to win.

Curtain_of_Steel
01-24-2011, 12:11 PM
So tired of the comparasions between the 2.

The call was a pass play, you were not going to run it and get a first down, we werent running it well engouh to succeeed. That would've been the wuss out way and let the Def bail you out. Run play they would've taken off anouter 40 plus seconds and Sanchez would have some opps to go deep.

thumper
01-24-2011, 12:19 PM
Cowher would have played "not to lose" and called a run up the middle,
which is why I thank God he is no longer our coach. Tomlin is a real
man - Cowher just plays one, like he's in a play. There is no accident
that Cowher blew so many home field advantages in conference championships.
He is way overrated. Good coach if your goal is to only become a play off
team. Bad coach if you want to win a ring. Yea, I know he won one. But
he should have won 2-3 more if he wasn't a wussie when it came to play
calling.

FanSince72
01-24-2011, 12:21 PM
Look, we got the ball back with 3:06 left in the game and a 5-point lead.

At that point, all Tomlin had to do was put the ball in the hands of the best clutch QB in the game and let him be a QB.

That's exactly what he did and it worked perfectly.

End of story.

UF-Steeler
01-24-2011, 12:30 PM
I really bought into Tomlin a lot more this year. I wasn't one of the fans who believed he did it in 08 with Cowher's team, but I wasn't 100% on how much control he had after the 09 season.

He fought through not having Ben for 4 games and coming out 3-1. He also dealt with a lot of negative media attention. The guy is solid as a rock. He doesn't seem phased by the media or any trash talking. He doesn't open his mouth and say stupid things. He lets his coaching do the talking and I love it. Cowher was a great coach, but he didn't have the same [quiet] determination I see in Tomlin.

Plus, I love all the random cliches and sayings Tomlin has. The standard is the standard!

vasteeler
01-24-2011, 12:40 PM
man where is all this cowher hate coming from????

Dino 6 Rings
01-24-2011, 12:43 PM
man where is all this cowher hate coming from????

I think it has to do with alot of folks coming to grips with the fact that in 2012, he'll be on the sideline of another team.

OX1947
01-24-2011, 12:48 PM
One of those you are a genius if it works, an idiot if you don't. Because if its incomplete, then they don't run out another 45 seconds on top of it. I was saying if nothing opens, ben take the 3 or 4 yard sack, keep the clock running, then the Jets only have a little over a min with no timeouts to go at the very least, 80 yards.

In a way it was actually the smart play because it was the only play where you could still have the advantage if they punt, and maybe get a chance to get the first down. Antonio Brown's return is very underrated in the whole thing, him running it to the 40 was just as huge as his first down. It gave the Steelers field position from the get go no matter what happen.

OX1947
01-24-2011, 12:54 PM
I think it has to do with alot of folks coming to grips with the fact that in 2012, he'll be on the sideline of another team.

You know, it cracks me up how people have selective memories and zero common sense sometimes. Bill Cowher had Kordell Stewart for most of his career as a QB, and yet people question why he was so cautious. This is the same guy who put in a 5 wide set to change the entire season around in 1995 when the steelers started out 1-4 with Neil O'Donnell. Marty would have NEVER done that. Cowher was the same guy who actually RECORDED on the season end DVD in 05 telling Whiz, "we can't put the cuffs on them". When you have QB's like Kordell, O'Donnell, Tomczack and Maddox, you have to be conservative. When you have Big Ben, you can be aggressive. If you do not believe me, watch the Colts game in 2005-06 in the divisional round. Cowher was passing all over the place. And if it weren't for the refs and their pathetic reversal on Polamalu's INT, that game would have been a blow out and done.

A great QB makes any good or great coach look that much better.

realdeal
01-24-2011, 01:23 PM
man where is all this cowher hate coming from????

He should never have picked against us!! It's ok to feel the Jets are going to win, but you don't do it on National television!!

steelcity1974
01-24-2011, 01:23 PM
LOVED the calls to pass to both Heath and AB.

But HATED the call to go shotgun empty set on 3rd and goal from the 2 when we were pounding the hell out of them. It's not so much that I didn't like a pass in that situation, but why not either run straight up the middle with Redmann or Mendy? Or if you have to pass, line up for the run and go play action. Instead Ben nearly threw a pick and we had to settle for a FG. Can't be wasting opportunities like that against green bay.

Dino 6 Rings
01-24-2011, 01:27 PM
He should never have picked against us!! It's ok to feel the Jets are going to win, but you don't do it on National television!!

I didn't watch the talking heads...did Bill really pick the Jets this weekend?

Really?

Atlanta Dan
01-24-2011, 02:41 PM
I didn't watch the talking heads...did Bill really pick the Jets this weekend?

Really?

Really

Tony Kornheiser supposedly said last week that former Steelers coach Bill Cowher desperately doesnt want to be the guy whos remembered as the coach who bridged the gap between the Chuck Noll and Mike Tomlin eras.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/24/conference-championship-10-pack/

CargoJon
01-24-2011, 02:57 PM
LOVED the calls to pass to both Heath and AB.

But HATED the call to go shotgun empty set on 3rd and goal from the 2 when we were pounding the hell out of them. It's not so much that I didn't like a pass in that situation, but why not either run straight up the middle with Redmann or Mendy? Or if you have to pass, line up for the run and go play action. Instead Ben nearly threw a pick and we had to settle for a FG. Can't be wasting opportunities like that against green bay.

Should have done that bootleg play for Ben to run it in, similar to that play Sanchez did on us week 15....

chitownpit
01-24-2011, 03:27 PM
I think Cowher would have never made these calls, but 2nd and 9 to Miller was gutsier than 3rd and 6 to Brown, IMO

Yea ! Balls of Steeler! The way Mendy`s running i would have run it on
2nd and 9 also and tried to keep the third down managable and the jets defence
guessing.

steelers2685
01-24-2011, 09:19 PM
He may have called a run, but at that time we had 'The Bus' and he'd have gotten those yards, especially if Tim Lester was driving the way! haha

caseyviator
01-25-2011, 11:11 AM
[QUOTE=harts;906120]Cowher had neil odonnell or a young #7
Tomlin has a seasoned #7

Cowher did play safe to much
But the Steelers didnt score a point in the second half
So they were playing not to lose until the last drive.

That San Diego championship game we lost - we should have won that one but I don't think they would have beat the niners that year

but we should have beat the Cowboys in the big game

Cowher has 1 Super Bowl - I dont think he has the drive to get another one - If he was serious about coaching he would have a job right now instead of trying to wait for the "perfect" situaton
Cowher did his job although it took 14 years to do it

i was thinkin bout cowher....ACTUALLY HE DID HAVE THE "PERFECT SITUATION", ya know he was there for 14 yrs buildin the foundation, the middle and the top...then he just steps away with one superbowl...all tomlin had to do was put the flag pole on and win with the 08 team.. i think this team has 2 more superbowls to win , not countin this one were gonna win in 12 days from now.....i always thought cowher left WAY TO SOON..here he builds it all, wins one and done...ill bet he kicks himself for not staying..
cause if he never coaches again its a moot point., ok fine its a done deal!!!.but if he does wanna coach more he should have just stayed with this steeler team of destiny that was sooo younge and on the move upward fast.,fast,fast!!!!! i mean his team won the superbowl as one of the youngest teams ever.. and he really built 85% of the 08 team that won and atlest 70% of the team thats gonna win it all rite now!!!!

i miss coach cowher and always thought he missed out on his best steeler teams to come!!!! he is the father of all these great teams, tomlin at first was a glorified babysitter and now is the fostor parent who is doin all the rite things.. but coach cowher is the father who should have not givin up his kids!!!! he may have won 5 SUPERBOWLS WITH THIS STEELER TEAM AND BIG BEN AND HE WOULD HAVE BEN CONSIDERED THE BEST COACH OF ALLTIME AFTER WINNING 5 SUPERBOWLS!! just an opinion i do like tomlin , AND HE WILL BE THE COACH WITH 4 SUPERBOWLS WHEN HES DONE...

Bricks46
02-03-2011, 07:07 PM
Good post Casey.

Cowher was a very good coach, even great. But he had some bad habits when it came to the playoffs. I never felt confident with him during big games, he would just run the ball way way too much. We had a great running game with Bettis, so why not more playaction plays? Tooooo conservative!

With Tomlin as head coach I feel very confident during the playoffs, kocky even. :coffee:

Neil-Still-Rules-14
02-03-2011, 07:10 PM
Cowher definitely inherited Martyball, with slightly more success. I prefer Tomlin.

Bricks46
02-03-2011, 07:15 PM
Cowher definitely inherited Martyball, with slightly more success. I prefer Tomlin.

And even with an average QB in Maddox and Stuart, with such a great running game and great D the Steelers still should have more in the playoffs.

OX1947
02-03-2011, 07:15 PM
Cowher inherited Martyball huh? Is that why he had Randle El throwing passes in the 4th quarter to win a Super Bowl?

Come on Steeler fans, wake the (bleep) up. Cowher went to a 5 wide set in 1995 when the Steelers started 1-4. This Cowher was conservative or played marty ball is the biggest pile of horse crap I keep hearing. It is a fallacy. If you dont believe me, let me draw it up for you:

These are Cowher's QB's in his 15 years:

Neil O'Donnell
Mike Tomczak
Kordell Stewart
Tommy Maddox
Ben Roethlisberger

Figure it out and then come back, im not going to detail this.

Bricks46
02-03-2011, 07:19 PM
Cowher inherited Martyball huh? Is that why he had Randle El throwing passes in the 4th quarter to win a Super Bowl?

Great point, but not really. Cowher also had the best offensive coordinator in Wiz, and Russ Grim was there too.

OX1947
02-03-2011, 07:27 PM
Great point, but not really. Cowher also had the best offensive coordinator in Wiz, and Russ Grim was there too.

Give me a freakin break. Is that why Whiz couldnt call a play to save his life with Derek Anderson at the helm this year? You need talent at Qb position sally. Give Cowher Big Ben in 1993 and Cowher is sitting on 3 titles at the worst.

MattsMe
02-03-2011, 08:00 PM
Great point, but not really. Cowher also had the best offensive coordinator in Wiz, and Russ Grim was there too.

Russ was the O-Line coach. :huh:


Give me a freakin break. Is that why Whiz couldnt call a play to save his life with Derek Anderson at the helm this year? You need talent at Qb position sally. Give Cowher Big Ben in 1993 and Cowher is sitting on 3 titles at the worst.

:applaudit: Give this man a cigar.

steeltheone
02-03-2011, 08:04 PM
Cowher had to beat The Patriots and Brady. Tomlin has been lucky not to have faced them in the playoffs. As we saw in the regular season, the results seem to be the same. Cowher also lost to Elway in 97. Tomlin has beaten Cutler and Sanchez.

Just how it turned out. Not a slam. Tomlin has beaten who he has been given, easier path or not.

4xSBChamps
02-03-2011, 09:00 PM
Cowher went to a 5 wide set in 1995 when the Steelers started 1-4.

You need talent at Qb position sally. Give Cowher Big Ben in 1993 and Cowher is sitting on 3 titles at the worst.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/movies/RickyBobby-thumbs-up.jpg

on both counts