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SteelKnight
01-24-2011, 09:36 PM
I love Wallace but he has called himself one of the best. If that's the case then he has to come through big in this Super Bowl...the biggest stage.

The best receivers come through. We don't talk about who was covering them...they just come through. When you think of Swann, Stallworth, Rice, Irvin, or even some of today's greats, they come through.

You can't say "They had a really good corner." I don't mind it if it is only 2 CBs...Revis or Namdi that a WR gets shut down by but you have to be willing to face the other teams' #1 CB and beat them if you want to be a #1 WR. When we played Arizona, Fitz didn't say "That Ike is pretty good, guess I'll keep him occupied and the rest of you will have to come through."

Hopefully the dome will let him bring out his speed.

Go Wallace! :tt04:

zulater
01-24-2011, 09:38 PM
What, sick of hating on Heath Miller and needed a new target?

El Nino
01-24-2011, 09:42 PM
he is one of the best. he burnt revis bad on one play and it was just unfortunate that ben underthrew him by a mile, that had TD written all over it if it was thrown farther

lexingtonsteelersfan
01-24-2011, 09:48 PM
I predict a big game from him and i predict a touchdown catch from Randle El. Yes we are going to use that play again.

sarahpalinhater
01-24-2011, 09:49 PM
I love Wallace but he has called himself one of the best. If that's the case then he has to come through big in this Super Bowl...the biggest stage.

The best receivers come through. We don't talk about who was covering them...they just come through. When you think of Swann, Stallworth, Rice, Irvin, or even some of today's greats, they come through.

You can't say "They had a really good corner." I don't mind it if it is only 2 CBs...Revis or Namdi that a WR gets shut down by but you have to be willing to face the other teams' #1 CB and beat them if you want to be a #1 WR. When we played Arizona, Fitz didn't say "That Ike is pretty good, guess I'll keep him occupied and the rest of you will have to come through."

Hopefully the dome will let him bring out his speed.

Go Wallace! :tt04:




I wouldn't say Michael Irvin exactly tore it up in his Super Bowl appearances. Yes in his first game he had 8 catches for 114 Yds and 2 TD's. But that game was a Blow out after the first quarter, where Irvin didn't do squat really. His scores came late in the 2nd, and 3rd quarters when Dallas was up by 35 points. In his next 2 Super Bowls Irvin had a total of 13 catches for 137 Yds and 0 TD's. Hardly All World.

USWSteel
01-24-2011, 09:51 PM
I love Wallace but he has called himself one of the best. If that's the case then he has to come through big in this Super Bowl...the biggest stage.

The best receivers come through. We don't talk about who was covering them...they just come through. When you think of Swann, Stallworth, Rice, Irvin, or even some of today's greats, they come through.

You can't say "They had a really good corner." I don't mind it if it is only 2 CBs...Revis or Namdi that a WR gets shut down by but you have to be willing to face the other teams' #1 CB and beat them if you want to be a #1 WR. When we played Arizona, Fitz didn't say "That Ike is pretty good, guess I'll keep him occupied and the rest of you will have to come through."

Hopefully the dome will let him bring out his speed.

Go Wallace! :tt04:

Who's going to throw him the ball ? ben cant get the ball down the field to him unless we play Cleveland next week ? maybe El can throw him a deep ball.

SeinfeldNut
01-24-2011, 09:52 PM
I think he will get plenty of opportunities to make plays in space against that Packers defense, especially if we can get the running game going like we did in the AFC Title game. That will set Ben up for play action or taking some long shots down the field, including taking some shots at Wallace.

Wallace108
01-24-2011, 09:55 PM
he is one of the best. he burnt revis bad on one play and it was just unfortunate that ben underthrew him by a mile, that had TD written all over it if it was thrown farther

Bingo. I spent all last week telling Jets fans here that Wallace would burn Revis deep one on one. He did it, and Ben underthrew him. :doh:

Wallace will be fine, but he needs Ben to get the ball to him.

cubanstogie
01-24-2011, 09:56 PM
Who's going to throw him the ball ? ben cant get the ball down the field to him unless we play Cleveland next week ? maybe El can throw him a deep ball.

where have you been all year hiding under a rock until two days ago. Ben to Wallace is one of the best big play tandem in the league.

USWSteel
01-24-2011, 10:08 PM
where have you been all year hiding under a rock until two days ago. Ben to Wallace is one of the best big play tandem in the league.

Do you watch any of the games or just look at the stat line ? 95% of Wallaces yards are after a 10-15 pass and he runs after the catch.... get real. The longest throw to Wallace actually in the air this year was by leftwich in the preseason vs the giants. Right on the money... Ben looks like a noodle arm with all his under thrown passes this year... oh except when he drilled it to Mendy about 100 mph from 5 yards away for a INT yesterday !

cubanstogie
01-24-2011, 10:15 PM
Do you watch any of the games or just look at the stat line ? 95% of Wallaces yards are after a 10-15 pass and he runs after the catch.... get real. The longest throw to Wallace actually in the air this year was by leftwich in the preseason vs the giants. Right on the money... Ben looks like a noodle arm with all his under thrown passes this year... oh except when he drilled it to Mendy about 100 mph from 5 yards away for a INT yesterday !

How did his noodle arm look last week when he hit Brown, or when he hit Wallace after Troys pic against the Browns. Get lost you negative loser. You didn't really talk about a play in preseason did you. LMAO get a life.

stlrtruck
01-24-2011, 10:41 PM
Wallace needs to do what's best for this team to win SB 45. If that means 1 catch for 8 yards, so be it. If that means ZERO catches, so be it, and if that means 10 catches for 178 yards and 3 TDs, then SO BE IT!

MasterOfPuppets
01-24-2011, 10:55 PM
Do you watch any of the games or just look at the stat line ? 95% of Wallaces yards are after a 10-15 pass and he runs after the catch.... get real. The longest throw to Wallace actually in the air this year was by leftwich in the preseason vs the giants. Right on the money... Ben looks like a noodle arm with all his under thrown passes this year... oh except when he drilled it to Mendy about 100 mph from 5 yards away for a INT yesterday !
do YOU watch the games or just make shit up to support your bogus claims ?

bDdr6I-j1lw

twz6SH0ylpk

LVSteelersfan
01-24-2011, 10:57 PM
How many times has Ben hit Wallace for TDs this year? Get a life man. He throws absolute strikes when he has to. That shot to Miller yesterday was with someone in this face. So was the one to Brown that sealed the game. So he doesn't throw pretty spirals 70 yards downfield. Few QBs can do that. Ben is a WIINER. That is the bottom line.

MattsMe
01-24-2011, 10:58 PM
do YOU watch the games or just make shit up to support your bogus claims ?

MoP, don't confuse the boy with facts. Bogus claims are so much more fun to believe.

SteelKnight
01-24-2011, 11:12 PM
What, sick of hating on Heath Miller and needed a new target?

LOL. I know I gave Heath a hard time but now...recently, he is playing the way I was hoping so much respect to him. What I was saying is he has to keep doing that. I still would like to see him increase his 1st downs on 3rd downs to 16 (1 per game) and TDs to 8 (one every other game). I believe he can do it. Sure it is about what helps the team but that would help the team.

How many times has Ben hit Wallace for TDs this year? Get a life man. He throws absolute strikes when he has to.

Definitely. Ben can throw strikes. If anyone doubts that, go to the media section (or youtube) and look up "Unstoppable".

Anyway. I love Wallace. He has gotten shut down the last 2 games. I guess in Baltimore Reed was always helping double cover him and in the last game somehow Cromartie shut him down. All I'm saying is there is always going to be someone (this time Woodson or that new young Probowler). I hope he can find a way to get open. That's all I'm saying.

SteelKnight
01-24-2011, 11:20 PM
Wallace needs to do what's best for this team to win SB 45. If that means 1 catch for 8 yards, so be it. If that means ZERO catches, so be it, and if that means 10 catches for 178 yards and 3 TDs, then SO BE IT!

Nobody can disagree with doing what's best for the team. He said he wants to be considered one of the best at the position. Well being one of the best means you have to step up sometimes...just like Santonio did in SB43. He didn't just say "I'll occupy their best CB so you guys can get open. They are putting their best on me so that's why I'm getting shut down."

Wallace has the right attitude. Reed (double covering) and the Jets defense (not necessarily Cromartie but maybe they were double covering him) are some of the best.

During the game, you'll see Jennings make some catches...and if he doesn't he failed to come through for his team.

Wallace is due a big game.:tt04:

tony hipchest
01-24-2011, 11:24 PM
What, sick of hating on Heath Miller and needed a new target?

i agree.

what the **** is this thread even about? :confused:

T-3Iq3XQkAw

Merchant
01-24-2011, 11:25 PM
Remember the first play in the Green Bay game last season? Wallace scorched the Packers' secondary for the TD. Hopefully he can do the same this time around.

tony hipchest
01-24-2011, 11:33 PM
How did his noodle arm look last week when he hit Brown, or when he hit Wallace after Troys pic against the Browns. Get lost you negative loser. You didn't really talk about a play in preseason did you. LMAO get a life.

if im not mistaken, dude just came off of a ban and may be paving the road for another one with this rediculous bullshit.

T-3Iq3XQkAw

cubanstogie
01-24-2011, 11:33 PM
do YOU watch the games or just make shit up to support your bogus claims ?

bDdr6I-j1lw

twz6SH0ylpk

thanks for the research I didn't have time to prove this guy is retarded. I thought he could at least remember the last 3 games in a row Ben threw a 45 to 50 yarder in the air and hit a receiver.

MikeHaullace
01-24-2011, 11:39 PM
I love Wallace but he has called himself one of the best. If that's the case then he has to come through big in this Super Bowl...the biggest stage.

The best receivers come through. We don't talk about who was covering them...they just come through. When you think of Swann, Stallworth, Rice, Irvin, or even some of today's greats, they come through.

You can't say "They had a really good corner." I don't mind it if it is only 2 CBs...Revis or Namdi that a WR gets shut down by but you have to be willing to face the other teams' #1 CB and beat them if you want to be a #1 WR. When we played Arizona, Fitz didn't say "That Ike is pretty good, guess I'll keep him occupied and the rest of you will have to come through."

Hopefully the dome will let him bring out his speed.

Go Wallace! :tt04:

I am pretty confident that Mike can beat most any corner in the NFL.

The problem is, he actually does have an excuse. If Ben doesn't throw a perfect, tight spiral, the ball will never have a chance getting where it needs to be caught.

That's mainly why he has to come back for so many balls. Good throw or luck heave, usually not a tight spin when talking about Ben throwing it 45+.

After watching highlight after highlight after highlight, that's definitely something that sets Bradshaw's skillset apart of Ben's.

Could you even imagine the Terry-to-Mike connection? :noidea:.

Let's hope that Ben will be throwing ropes that day. It shall be grand if so.

MattsMe
01-24-2011, 11:44 PM
Could you even imagine the Terry-to-Mike connection? :noidea:.

They don't make football fields long enough for that. :tt03:

MikeHaullace
01-24-2011, 11:46 PM
They don't make football fields long enough for that. :tt03:

hehe

It's called a 'runway'.

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 12:00 AM
if im not mistaken, dude just came off of a ban and may be paving the road for another one with this rediculous bullshit.

T-3Iq3XQkAw

I don't agree with the guy but I don't think he should get banned just because we disagree. JMO. I don't read every thread like you do though so you would know whether or not he is trolling or whether it is just a difference of opinion.

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 12:05 AM
That's mainly why he has to come back for so many balls. Good throw or luck heave, usually not a tight spin when talking about Ben throwing it 45+.


For the most beautiful pass I have seen go watch unstoppable and look at the Ben to Holms throw against Arizona (not the SB catc). It is over 50 yards and not even a Hail Mary. If you can find a more beautiful pass by any QB, I'd like to see it.
http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=67559

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 12:10 AM
I am pretty confident that Mike can beat most any corner in the NFL.
.

Just to be clear. I am a big Wallace fan and I think he can do it. Reed is gone and Revis is not on the other team. He is due. Time to step up.

I think having Sanders out there should take some of the pressure off of him.

tony hipchest
01-25-2011, 12:11 AM
I don't agree with the guy but I don't think he should get banned just because we disagree. JMO. I don't read every thread like you do though so you would know whether or not he is trolling or whether it is just a difference of opinion.

nobody said anyone was getting banned, but thanks for your input. :rolleyes:

:blah:

everyone paves their own road.

even you.

MikeHaullace
01-25-2011, 12:12 AM
For the most beautiful pass I have seen go watch unstoppable and look at the Ben to Holms throw against Arizona (not the SB catc). It is over 50 yards and not even a Hail Mary. If you can find a more beautiful pass by any QB, I'd like to see it.
http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=67559

I'm not contesting whether or not Ben can throw a purdy deep ball.

I will, however argue that Ben doesn't *always* throw a purdy deep ball. It is essential his passes are a perfect spiral with perfect physical dynamics because his arm is weaker than Wallace's speed. Unfortunately, sometimes the ball has a little wiggle on it's way. Luckily, Mike hasn't had to adjust as much in the latter half of this season as the former, and year prior as well.

I certainly don't want to argue semantics with you because I like you.

Could you imagine him playing for a team that's home to a dome? Put Ben in Manning's career. What are his numbers?

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 12:25 AM
nobody said anyone was getting banned, but thanks for your input. :rolleyes:

:blah:

everyone paves their own road.

even you.

Alright then. Great. I misunderstood you. I was referring to this:

"if im not mistaken, dude just came off of a ban and may be paving the road for another one with this rediculous bullshit."

I guess it sounds like more of a threat when a moderator says it.

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 12:30 AM
I'm not contesting whether or not Ben can throw a purdy deep ball.

I will, however argue that Ben doesn't *always* throw a purdy deep ball. It is essential his passes are a perfect spiral with perfect physical dynamics because his arm is weaker than Wallace's speed. Unfortunately, sometimes the ball has a little wiggle on it's way. Luckily, Mike hasn't had to adjust as much in the latter half of this season as the former, and year prior as well.

I certainly don't want to argue semantics with you because I like you.

Could you imagine him playing for a team that's home to a dome? Put Ben in Manning's career. What are his numbers?

Yeah...I agree he is not always accurate. He has gotten better over the years. lol His teamates used to tease him that he sucked in practice but was good during the games his first year. I've said this before. mentally he is good (unlike Cutler). It is just that sometimes his throw is off. I've said this before that often if he would hit a receiver in stride, they could get more but often a receiver is diving for a ball and the broadcasters always think he intended to put it where only his reciver could get it...maybe. but some of them were unplanned dives I believe because the pass was a little off...lol.

tony hipchest
01-25-2011, 12:31 AM
...Great. I misunderstood.... .

nothing new here. :coffee:

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 12:33 AM
nothing new here. :coffee:

I was hoping you would see why I got that impression that but if not, fine.

USWSteel
01-25-2011, 01:55 AM
For the most beautiful pass I have seen go watch unstoppable and look at the Ben to Holms throw against Arizona (not the SB catc). It is over 50 yards and not even a Hail Mary. If you can find a more beautiful pass by any QB, I'd like to see it.
http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=67559

Watch just about any Warren Moon or Kurt Warners passes from the ram years.

USWSteel
01-25-2011, 02:02 AM
Alright then. Great. I misunderstood you. I was referring to this:

"if im not mistaken, dude just came off of a ban and may be paving the road for another one with this rediculous bullshit."

I guess it sounds like more of a threat when a moderator says it.

Whats the bullshit ? Ok wow I forgot about the Miami pass...ok he had "2" long passes to Wallace,my mistake. But the fact is his deep passes are mostly always under thrown. Its been 14 games and he has 2 bombs to arguably the best deep threat in the NFL... Ben is the weak link in the equation ....not Wallace period !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aussie Steeler
01-25-2011, 02:30 AM
Whats the bullshit ? Ok wow I forgot about the Miami pass...ok he had "2" long passes to Wallace,my mistake. But the fact is his deep passes are mostly always under thrown. Its been 14 games and he has 2 bombs to arguably the best deep threat in the NFL... Ben is the weak link in the equation ....not Wallace period !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you just completely change and/or disregard facts to suit your point? Wallace averages over 20 yards per catch. Bradshaw and Stallworth played together for 10 seasons and connected for 7 (?) plays of 40+ yards. Ben and Wallace have connected for seven or eight 40+ yard passes in two seasons. And throughout the season, Wallace is being played 10 yards away by CB's, along with adding an extra safety to cover him. You make it sound like Wallace runs faster than the speed of light. Anyway, this will probably be the last time I do reply to your ignorant posts which is filled with so much straight out bs. "2 long passes to Wallace" .. wow you OBVIOUSLY don't watch or follow any football. Seriously, your attempt at escalating yourself as a know-it-all is amazing given your complete lack of football knowledge.

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 02:33 AM
Whats the bullshit ? Ok wow I forgot about the Miami pass...ok he had "2" long passes to Wallace,my mistake. But the fact is his deep passes are mostly always under thrown. Its been 14 games and he has 2 bombs to arguably the best deep threat in the NFL... Ben is the weak link in the equation ....not Wallace period !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. I just want to point out that that "bullshit" quote was from Tony, not me. I was quoting him.

2. Most of the ben to Wallace passes have not been the short with YAC type. They have been legitimately deep. This is why he has been in the top 2 in YPC for 2 years in a row.

scsteeler
01-25-2011, 02:37 AM
I love Wallace but he has called himself one of the best. If that's the case then he has to come through big in this Super Bowl...the biggest stage.

The best receivers come through. We don't talk about who was covering them...they just come through. When you think of Swann, Stallworth, Rice, Irvin, or even some of today's greats, they come through.

You can't say "They had a really good corner." I don't mind it if it is only 2 CBs...Revis or Namdi that a WR gets shut down by but you have to be willing to face the other teams' #1 CB and beat them if you want to be a #1 WR. When we played Arizona, Fitz didn't say "That Ike is pretty good, guess I'll keep him occupied and the rest of you will have to come through."

Hopefully the dome will let him bring out his speed.

Go Wallace! :tt04:


Well Wallace has come through! In the Jets Game he had a TD but Ball was short and he had to become a defender. Revis was Beat by Wallace but Ben did not have enough arm to get it to him, nothing negative against Ben but Wallace has come through and well for the most part Ben has to get the ball to the person that is open first. Wallace is being Double covered more now.

MikeHaullace
01-25-2011, 02:38 AM
Whats the bullshit ? Ok wow I forgot about the Miami pass...ok he had "2" long passes to Wallace,my mistake. But the fact is his deep passes are mostly always under thrown. Its been 14 games and he has 2 bombs to arguably the best deep threat in the NFL... Ben is the weak link in the equation ....not Wallace period !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From all of the games I've watched, this logic cannot be faulted.

Just because Ben has the ability to throw a bad-@ss deep ball, doesn't mean he does or can, in or out of the elements, game speed. Rarely has he hit a deep ball in stride. I would be ready to wager that ~85% of his throws downfield 40+ are underthrown over his career. (forgive me for the nonsensical percentage.)

Aussie Steeler
01-25-2011, 03:07 AM
From all of the games I've watched, this logic cannot be faulted.

Just because Ben has the ability to throw a bad-@ss deep ball, doesn't mean he does or can, in or out of the elements, game speed. Rarely has he hit a deep ball in stride. I would be ready to wager that ~85% of his throws downfield 40+ are underthrown over his career. (forgive me for the nonsensical percentage.)

Noooooo chance!! Ben's got a pretty good deep ball. I'd say that maybe 20% are underthrown. I've seen him underthrow Wallace on 40+ yarders only twice this season (tell me if I'm wrong) and overthrew him once. Ben has an impressive deep ball and I'd dare say one of the best in the league at the moment. Not to live in the past, but that deep throw to Brown against Baltimore in the clutch .. wow!

USWSteel
01-25-2011, 04:03 AM
Noooooo chance!! Ben's got a pretty good deep ball. I'd say that maybe 20% are underthrown. I've seen him underthrow Wallace on 40+ yarders only twice this season (tell me if I'm wrong) and overthrew him once. Ben has an impressive deep ball and I'd dare say one of the best in the league at the moment. Not to live in the past, but that deep throw to Brown against Baltimore in the clutch .. wow!

I'm really not trying to be a dick...but I think that you couldnt be more wrong about his deep passes. He has had tons of under thrown passes this year !!!! Not just the deeper routes. I would have to say maybe bottom 3rd of NFL QB's in ability to throw the bomb. As i said only 2 bombs to the best deep threat in the NFL today. I find it hard to find a play where Wallace hasnt blown by the secondary on deep passes and the ball is never there...Ben just cant do it on a regular basis, well I was wrong twice. "see videos to refresh your memory" I cant believe I forgot about the Miami game seeing that Ben is one of the Best in the league at that part of his game 2 bombs to Wallace. I'd hate to see the worst if Ben is the best !!! Christ remember the pass Fitzpatrick put it in his hands !!!S.J. in the Buff game ? Ryan Freaking who !!!!!! And that bonehead drops it !!!!!!! Saved our bacon again !!!!!
Ben has some very good pieces to his game. But its like he can put it all together in one game much less a season. By far the D is the key reason we are in this Superbowl... Ben has made plays for sure. But if he would make the easy play with more consistence he would have all the elite QB talk it would be a given ! His constant inconsistence is the problem. He always has to pull some play out of his ass and l just dont think this is a team in GB where the Steelers can come out with a win with Ben playing that way. Look at the punk teams we beat in the other 2 bowls the cards and the hawks...by far 2 teams that had no business being in a super bowl in the first place. I just hope Ben is more accurate in this game. God he work ed with this QB just during his 4 game punishment... I think maybe more harm then good came from that ... its obvious they didnt deep work on the one pass where wallace is wide open a Ben drops it in his hands from 40 to 50 + yards out... That pass is out there EVER FReakKING GAME and BEN doesnt get the pass out to Wallace. I dont want a Manning or Brady but if those 2 had a chance to unleash to Wallace the NFL might make Wallace play with those stupid Crocs shoes on gameday to slow him down !!! :tt04::tt::tt03::tt02::hatsoff::popcorn::coffee:

JackHammer
01-25-2011, 05:21 AM
Nobody can disagree with doing what's best for the team. He said he wants to be considered one of the best at the position. Well being one of the best means you have to step up sometimes...just like Santonio did in SB43. He didn't just say "I'll occupy their best CB so you guys can get open. They are putting their best on me so that's why I'm getting shut down."

Wallace has the right attitude. Reed (double covering) and the Jets defense (not necessarily Cromartie but maybe they were double covering him) are some of the best.

During the game, you'll see Jennings make some catches...and if he doesn't he failed to come through for his team.

Wallace is due a big game.:tt04:

Well if Ben didn't under throw him, when he absolutely beat Revis, you wouldn't have even started this topic because Wallace would've ran until he hit his head off the goal post. The simple fact that Wallace beat Revis like that completely contradicts your theory that he was somehow just content to occupy their best CB. And just because he says he wants to be considered the best, it doesn't mean that there's "no excuse" if he doesn't have a big game in the SB, especially since he's never even been in a SB. He's a 3rd round pick who's become a #1 WR in only his second year as a pro. He's already over achieved GREATLY, but there's still plenty of progress to be made. Be patient with the kid.

Swann didn't even catch a damn pass in his first SB and had one rush for -7 yards. Stallworth didn't do shit in his first two SB's: 3rec/24yds vs MIN and 2rec/8yds vs Dallas. No TD's. Irvin had a really good first SB, in his FIFTH SEASON, and it's already been pointed out that he did his damage in garbage time. Jerry Rice is the only one you mentioned who had a huge first SB appearance and he was in his 4th season at that point. You can't place that kind of expectation on Wallace(a 2nd year player, 1st year #1 WR), simply because he said he wants to be considered the best, and then act like there's something wrong with him if he doesn't have a big SB, or that there's "no excuse" for him not to have a big SB, since most rookie/second year WR's don't have big SB's.

As far as Heath goes, he has to be targeted to begin with, in order to get the numbers you want for him. You can't sit here and say he doesn't have those numbers because he's dropping TD's and 3rd down conversions all the time. That's just a side effect of having multiple weapons on offense.

plenewken
01-25-2011, 06:23 AM
Yeah...I agree he is not always accurate. He has gotten better over the years. lol His teamates used to tease him that he sucked in practice but was good during the games his first year. I've said this before. mentally he is good (unlike Cutler). It is just that sometimes his throw is off. I've said this before that often if he would hit a receiver in stride, they could get more but often a receiver is diving for a ball and the broadcasters always think he intended to put it where only his reciver could get it...maybe. but some of them were unplanned dives I believe because the pass was a little off...lol.

Ben is not a great passer, he's a middle of the pack passer, every specialist agrees on that. He has other qualities that make up for it.
Would I love to see him hit his receivers in stride more often? Sure! Am I sometimes frustrated with Ben? Sure! But he's a winner. He doesn't win pretty but he wins, no question.
I hope Ben pulls a heck of a game in the SB cause he'll be facing Rodgers who's not chopped liver, both as a passer and as a scrambler.
IMO, Rodger is more accurate and more mobile than Ben. The big difference is Rodgers has not been exposed to high pressure yet but it's coming. Hopefully Ben comes out on top.

cubanstogie
01-25-2011, 07:08 AM
I'm really not trying to be a dick...but I think that you couldnt be more wrong about his deep passes. He has had tons of under thrown passes this year !!!! Not just the deeper routes. I would have to say maybe bottom 3rd of NFL QB's in ability to throw the bomb. As i said only 2 bombs to the best deep threat in the NFL today. I find it hard to find a play where Wallace hasnt blown by the secondary on deep passes and the ball is never there...Ben just cant do it on a regular basis, well I was wrong twice. "see videos to refresh your memory" I cant believe I forgot about the Miami game seeing that Ben is one of the Best in the league at that part of his game 2 bombs to Wallace. I'd hate to see the worst if Ben is the best !!! Christ remember the pass Fitzpatrick put it in his hands !!!S.J. in the Buff game ? Ryan Freaking who !!!!!! And that bonehead drops it !!!!!!! Saved our bacon again !!!!!
Ben has some very good pieces to his game. But its like he can put it all together in one game much less a season. By far the D is the key reason we are in this Superbowl... Ben has made plays for sure. But if he would make the easy play with more consistence he would have all the elite QB talk it would be a given ! His constant inconsistence is the problem. He always has to pull some play out of his ass and l just dont think this is a team in GB where the Steelers can come out with a win with Ben playing that way. Look at the punk teams we beat in the other 2 bowls the cards and the hawks...by far 2 teams that had no business being in a super bowl in the first place. I just hope Ben is more accurate in this game. God he work ed with this QB just during his 4 game punishment... I think maybe more harm then good came from that ... its obvious they didnt deep work on the one pass where wallace is wide open a Ben drops it in his hands from 40 to 50 + yards out... That pass is out there EVER FReakKING GAME and BEN doesnt get the pass out to Wallace. I dont want a Manning or Brady but if those 2 had a chance to unleash to Wallace the NFL might make Wallace play with those stupid Crocs shoes on gameday to slow him down !!! :tt04::tt::tt03::tt02::hatsoff::popcorn::coffee:

its not that you are a dick, its that you are ignorant and don't know talent when you see it. You throw out these ridiculous statements. First you said all Bens long passes to Wallace were 10-15, now you state they were all underthrown when you lose the other argument. The Seahawks were the number 1 seed that year dumbass, they won the first playoff by 10 and the second by 20. Pretty deserving to me. Do the Pack deserve at the 6th seed. Ben and Wallace are the leaders in passes over 50 yards, I think they both deserve the credit. It takes two. Why don't you check out the 40 yarder in the Panthers game. Underthrown probably on pupose due to Wallace covered like a blanket. You do know that underthown balls on the deep route are purposeful on occasion. Did you ever see Randy Moss in his first Viking stint. Your best line was the punk SB teams. Too funny Kurt Warner leading a team with Fitz and Boldin and they are punk. I guess super Bowl MVP and season MVP multiple times doesn't give him credentials in your book.

Curtain_of_Steel
01-25-2011, 08:08 AM
Right on Wallace108...If Ben didnt toss it short by 10 yards thats a TD. Revis was left with Gilligan on the island.

Boy people call for thread to be closed, tossed to the locker room etc. How about tossing this one in the "sorry I didn't pay attention to the game can"..

Ben didn;t exactly light up the field with accuracy passes, could be the sub zero weather. But he controlled things great, passed in key spots, delivered the knock blow. But his accuracy sucked. Not allaces fault.

ZoneBlitzer
01-25-2011, 09:00 AM
He is no Holmes that's for sure. He's a work in progress at the moment and frankly, it is understandable considering his experience level.

Sixburgher
01-25-2011, 09:01 AM
He is no Holmes that's for sure.

Guess that explains why he posted better numbers this season than Holmes ever has.

ZoneBlitzer
01-25-2011, 09:09 AM
Guess that explains why he posted better numbers this season than Holmes ever has.

Sure he's a burner and can get open for the bomb but it's the intermediate routes that are just as important. His body control and route running are not quite up to snuff just yet...but he is getting better.

zulater
01-25-2011, 09:50 AM
Ben is not a great passer, he's a middle of the pack passer, every specialist agrees on that. He has other qualities that make up for it.
Would I love to see him hit his receivers in stride more often? Sure! Am I sometimes frustrated with Ben? Sure! But he's a winner. He doesn't win pretty but he wins, no question.
I hope Ben pulls a heck of a game in the SB cause he'll be facing Rodgers who's not chopped liver, both as a passer and as a scrambler.
IMO, Rodger is more accurate and more mobile than Ben. The big difference is Rodgers has not been exposed to high pressure yet but it's coming. Hopefully Ben comes out on top.

No, that's your opinion, not every specialist's opinion. Ben is not one of the league's most accurate deep throwers, but other than that he's a well above average passer in most other categories. 40 and 50 yard bombs are great, but even the best deep throwers can't make a living on it. What seperates the men from the boys in the NFL is the deep out. And no one throws a 20-30 yard out route on the dime better than Ben.

plenewken
01-25-2011, 10:08 AM
No, that's your opinion, not every specialist's opinion. Ben is not one of the league's most accurate deep throwers, but other than that he's a well above average passer in most other categories. 40 and 50 yard bombs are great, but even the best deep throwers can't make a living on it. What seperates the men from the boys in the NFL is the deep out. And no one throws a 20-30 yard out route on the dime better than Ben.

Allow me to disagree with you. Ben is not a passer like Brady, Manning or Brees by any stretch of the imagination. Like I said, he has other qualities that they don't have but when it comes to quickly read a defense, find the BEST open guy and consistently throw the ball on the numbers, Ben's not in the same category as these 3 guys and pretty much every specialist agree on this.
Ben has a knack for extending plays and getting yardage out of a desperate situation but not for being a fast and accurate pocket passer who will pick a secondary apart.
I don't care about 50yds bombs either, no more than I care about Hail Marys.

sarahpalinhater
01-25-2011, 10:23 AM
Allow me to disagree with you. Ben is not a passer like Brady, Manning or Brees by any stretch of the imagination. Like I said, he has other qualities that they don't have but when it comes to quickly read a defense, find the BEST open guy and consistently throw the ball on the numbers, Ben's not in the same category as these 3 guys and pretty much every specialist agree on this.
Ben has a knack for extending plays and getting yardage out of a desperate situation but not for being a fast and accurate pocket passer who will pick a secondary apart.
I don't care about 50yds bombs either, no more than I care about Hail Marys.



Ben is not the thrower like those guys ? Yeah well that's ONLY because all those guys are on teams that have passed way way more times then Ben is allowed to here in Pittsburgh. But even with that. You are talking about a guy who will likely pass for over 300 TD's, MAYBE have 3 Super Bowl rings, and have who knows how many seasons where Ben has a 8.00 + YPA average, where Manning-Brees-Brady have a combined.....4 in all their collective seasons so far,,,same as Ben has in his 7 seasons. So sorry sir but it is YOU who are misinformed here when it comes to saying Ben is NOT the same passer as those 3 QB's. Cause clearly he is. He just doesn't throw it over 650 times a season like Manning gets to do.

zulater
01-25-2011, 10:36 AM
Allow me to disagree with you. Ben is not a passer like Brady, Manning or Brees by any stretch of the imagination. Like I said, he has other qualities that they don't have but when it comes to quickly read a defense, find the BEST open guy and consistently throw the ball on the numbers, Ben's not in the same category as these 3 guys and pretty much every specialist agree on this.
Ben has a knack for extending plays and getting yardage out of a desperate situation but not for being a fast and accurate pocket passer who will pick a secondary apart.
I don't care about 50yds bombs either, no more than I care about Hail Marys.

Got a link? :coffee:

I think Ben's a much better pocket passer than you believe. When he's able to find a target and step into his throws he can deliver the goods with the best of them, be it from the pocket or on the run. It's just that since 2005 ( when Jeff Hartings, Marvel Smith, and Alan Faneca were all at their best) he hasn't consistently had a good pocket to throw from.

harrison'samonster
01-25-2011, 11:11 AM
I think Ben's gotten a lot better at the deep pass, hitting it right on more consistently. Throughout his career though, it seems to me he has had a tendency to underthrow the ball.

if everybody paved their own road, we wouldn't have such high taxes. just stay off my road.

plenewken
01-25-2011, 11:34 AM
Got a link? :coffee:

I think Ben's a much better pocket passer than you believe. When he's able to find a target and step into his throws he can deliver the goods with the best of them, be it from the pocket or on the run. It's just that since 2005 ( when Jeff Hartings, Marvel Smith, and Alan Faneca were all at their best) he hasn't consistently had a good pocket to throw from.

I never said he's a bad pocket passer, I said he's not as good as the 3 others and I don't think you can dispute this with facts.
I observed Ben needing about 2 sec more than Brady, Manning or Brees to execute a similar play. This can be the difference between a pass and a sack or the difference between perfectly thrown and under or over thrown.
That's all I'm saying.

sarahpalinhater
01-25-2011, 11:42 AM
I never said he's a bad pocket passer, I said he's not as good as the 3 others and I don't think you can dispute this with facts.
I observed Ben needing about 2 sec more than Brady, Manning or Brees to execute a similar play. This can be the difference between a pass and a sack or the difference between perfectly thrown and under or over thrown.
That's all I'm saying.



First off, all the written reports on why Ben has been sacked so much is because Ben holds on to the ball is complete BS! A report in 2010 calculated that Ben HAS to scramble around cause after 1.3 seconds after the snap, the report said that Ben already had Immediate pressure on him. So how is that Ben's fault ? Only, and I mean ONLY a Illiterate Moron would ever say that Ben holds on to the Ball too long, which is why he gets sacked. Cause anyone with an IQ over 25 can easily see it's our pathetic O-Line. Lets see how Brady, or Manning does behind this Line.


Sorry man but you are completely lost on this one. Just like how you fail to point out that Ben doesn't have the stats that Brady, Manning or Brees has because ONE...they are all on teams that throw the ball alot more then Pittsburgh does. And TWO...ALL of those QB's are State W H O R E S !! In the end, they all will choose to PASS for a TD when they COULD just run it in. The Steelers do that ALL the time if they can. Ben can easily average 30-35 TD 's a season EVERY season if he wanted, or if the Steelers coaches let him. But in the end, does it make us a better squad ?


Didn't think so.

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 11:50 AM
Well if Ben didn't under throw him, when he absolutely beat Revis, you wouldn't have even started this topic because Wallace would've ran until he hit his head off the goal post. The simple fact that Wallace beat Revis like that completely contradicts your theory that he was somehow just content to occupy their best CB. And just because he says he wants to be considered the best, it doesn't mean that there's "no excuse" if he doesn't have a big game in the SB, especially since he's never even been in a SB. He's a 3rd round pick who's become a #1 WR in only his second year as a pro. He's already over achieved GREATLY, but there's still plenty of progress to be made. Be patient with the kid.

Swann didn't even catch a damn pass in his first SB and had one rush for -7 yards. Stallworth didn't do shit in his first two SB's: 3rec/24yds vs MIN and 2rec/8yds vs Dallas. No TD's. Irvin had a really good first SB, in his FIFTH SEASON, and it's already been pointed out that he did his damage in garbage time. Jerry Rice is the only one you mentioned who had a huge first SB appearance and he was in his 4th season at that point. You can't place that kind of expectation on Wallace(a 2nd year player, 1st year #1 WR), simply because he said he wants to be considered the best, and then act like there's something wrong with him if he doesn't have a big SB, or that there's "no excuse" for him not to have a big SB, since most rookie/second year WR's don't have big SB's.

As far as Heath goes, he has to be targeted to begin with, in order to get the numbers you want for him. You can't sit here and say he doesn't have those numbers because he's dropping TD's and 3rd down conversions all the time. That's just a side effect of having multiple weapons on offense.

It is not so much that I have a theory that Wallace is content to just occupy the best CB. My point is he has to step up in big games (not necessarily the SB) if he wants to be considered one of the best. I mentioned the occupy thing so that the fans don't use that as an excuse. I don't think that is his personal excuse.

What I'm saying is simple. You wanna be big? Play big no matter who covers you. The examples I gave were some great receivers who played big in some big games. It doesn't necessarily have to be the SB. Sometimes they played big to get to the SB so focusing only on SB stats misses the point. I mentioned he is due because the last 2 games he got shut down. That would be 3 big games in a row.

Really I don't want to hear about age and stuff like that. We are talking about now. If someone said Deshawn Jackson needs to come through for Vick, nobody wants to hear "Well he is young." What did Tomlin say "No excuses, No explanation." I never said if he bombs now he is a bust and will never be considered great so I don't need those comparisons of how long it took other people. I like Wallace...he is due. If not, we will have to drop him down to "one day" status again...which is fine...but it is different from "right now" status.

As far as Heath, I don't want to go on a tangent because this has been discussed extensively. He has to WANT to have a bigger role (Maybe some of AB's passion can rub off on him). If he goes to them and says "I can beat this guy" and he wants the ball (and can execute), it will happen. That may not be his personality so maybe that's the issue (being so orderly and quiet). The side effect of having multiple weapons argument would not have worked last year because we had problems in the Red Zone and with 3rd down conversions so if he had been available, he would not have been stealing them from anyone. His stats were OK last year but he was weak in 3rd down conversions (as he has been his whole career). I love the way he is playing now (recently). I hope he can keep it up.

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 12:02 PM
Ben is not a great passer, he's a middle of the pack passer, every specialist agrees on that. He has other qualities that make up for it.
Would I love to see him hit his receivers in stride more often? Sure!

Yeah. It is funny. The announcers always act like it is by design and he put it right where only his receiver could get it (with a dive). lol If he does do the "in stride" thing, his picks would go up though (as would the YAC). Only he and the receivers know which ones are intended dives. We are usually just so excited that a catch was made. We have good receivers that dive. I've seen some QB throw like Ben where the receiver does not dive or jump high and it can make the QB look really bad (too low or too high). Plax is a perfect example.

Still, Ben is my favorite player in all of sports...but not every pass should be a dive. lol

43Hitman
01-25-2011, 12:08 PM
As far as Heath, I don't want to go on a tangent because this has been discussed extensively. He has to WANT to have a bigger role (Maybe some of AB's passion can rub off on him). If he goes to them and says "I can beat this guy" and he wants the ball (and can execute), it will happen. That may not be his personality so maybe that's the issue (being so orderly and quiet). The side effect of having multiple weapons argument would not have worked last year because we had problems in the Red Zone and with 3rd down conversions so if he had been available, he would not have been stealing them from anyone. His stats were OK last year but he was weak in 3rd down conversions (as he has been his whole career). I love the way he is playing now (recently). I hope he can keep it up.


Not sure if you're being serious here.

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 12:16 PM
Ben is not the thrower like those guys ? Yeah well that's ONLY because all those guys are on teams that have passed way way more times then Ben is allowed to here in Pittsburgh.

I hate this line of reasoning. it doesn't apply anymore after the 2009 season. People should just stop using it. Ben has had his opportunity to throw.


Only, and I mean ONLY a Illiterate Moron would ever say that Ben holds on to the Ball too long, which is why he gets sacked.

This sentence is funny.:sofunny:

UF-Steeler
01-25-2011, 12:23 PM
Ben put up some pretty good numbers last year if I'm not mistaken. We didn't make the playoffs.

When the boss man says he wants to run more I dont' expect Ben to put up gaudy numbers. There is some truth to palinhaters argument, however, he goes about it wrong lol. Indy, NE, and NO all run a different offense. Now, I don't know if Ben would have success in those offenses (i'd guess yes) but I do realize there is a difference between the system these quarterbacks are in. You can't deny the offenses that the "elite" qbs are on throw a hell of alot more than the Steelers usually do.

sarahpalinhater
01-25-2011, 12:23 PM
I hate this line of reasoning. it doesn't apply anymore after the 2009 season. People should just stop using it. Ben has had his opportunity to throw.




This sentence is funny.:sofunny:




Ben has had chances to throw ? Yes. But show me where he has had the chance to toss it over 650 times in a season ? When I heard one of the Moron Stewart brothers on ESPN saying that Ben will never be an ELITE QB cause he has only one 4000 + Yd season, and only one 30 + TD season was easily the most dumbest thing I have heard. Like I said, Ben can get 30 + TD's a season throwing every year IF he wanted to. Or get 4000 + Yd seasons as well. I mean the one guy here acts as if Ben is NOT capable of it. And clearly he is. Physically, he is more gifted then either Manning, Brady or Brees.

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 12:23 PM
Not sure if you're being serious here.

Yeah...I was but I don't want to take the thread on a Heath tangent. I love what he's been doing lately (since he came off injury). He needs to keep that up the whole season.

It is easy to blame BA for how he uses him but if he said he wanted to play a bigger role in the passing game, I'm sure BA and Ben would not say no. I wouldn't consider it to be disrespectful to ask either. It doesn't mean we have to go to the extreme of Keyshawn or TO...there is a passion in between.

He has been awesome recently.

UF-Steeler
01-25-2011, 12:25 PM
Yeah...I was but I don't want to take the thread on a Heath tangent. I love what he's been doing lately (since he came off injury). He needs to keep that up the whole season.

It is easy to blame BA for how he uses him but if he said he wanted to play a bigger role in the passing game, I'm sure BA and Ben would not say no. I wouldn't consider it to be disrespectful to ask either. It doesn't mean we have to go to the extreme of Keyshawn or TO...there is a passion in between.

He has been awesome recently.

I bet Heath would have more chances in the passing game if our line wasn't made of swiss cheese. Enough said.

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 12:34 PM
You can't deny the offenses that the "elite" qbs are on throw a hell of alot more than the Steelers usually do.

It is not the total numbers. I think if he looked like those guys looked WHEN he throws, there would be no argument. It is the accuracy. Also, he would have a few more TDs if he would hit more receivers in stride. The Steelers still pass a lot though.

Physically, he is more gifted then either Manning, Brady or Brees.

See...here is where I might disagree...keep in mind Ben is my favorite player. Ben has some skills they don't have but all 3 are more accurate passers who can hit receivers in stride better. Rogers may be Ben's challenge because he can scramble and extend plays like Ben but is more accurate (although can't sake people off as easily).

Again. Ben is my favorite player in all of Sports. There are some things he can do better but he certainly has had his chances to throw the ball. He is not in a "run first' type offense like we had in the old days where you can blame Pittsburgh.

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 12:42 PM
I bet Heath would have more chances in the passing game if our line wasn't made of swiss cheese. Enough said.

Yeah...This is a decent point but he does run enough pass routes. It's not like they hold him in to black every play. He usually goes out. If he were slightly faster they could send him slightly deeper (15 yards) more often. LBs become uncomfortable running with a TE going deep. Near the line of scrimmage where they have help they feel better. If that happened enough, they would put safeties on him which not only frees up WRs from double coverage but should create a size mismatch if he were good enough to out-muscle or out-jump a safety. This is the definition of TE matchup nightmare. You want the TE that is too fast/quick for the LB but to big and too strong for the safety or CB.

zulater
01-25-2011, 12:47 PM
I never said he's a bad pocket passer, I said he's not as good as the 3 others and I don't think you can dispute this with facts.
I observed Ben needing about 2 sec more than Brady, Manning or Brees to execute a similar play. This can be the difference between a pass and a sack or the difference between perfectly thrown and under or over thrown.
That's all I'm saying.

I don't think I ever claimed Ben was as accurate from the pocket as The Big 3, aka P.Manning, Brady, and Brees. I'm just saying he's not chopped meat back there in the pocket either. You can't throw for over 4000 yards in a season or 500 in a single game throwing strictly from the edge. Honestly outside of the big 3, and maybe Rodgers I think if Ben has a more stable o-line he'll prove to be as good as any of the rest from the pocket. When Ben has the opportunity to step directly into a throw I find him to be deadly accurate.

Honestly Plenk, I think we're close to being on the same page, I know Ben's a little rough around the edges, and probably will never be as polished as Brady, Manning, and Brees. But those guys are generational (if that's a word? :chuckle:) in their ability, few ever could be put in that category.

WickedSteel
01-25-2011, 01:18 PM
I think the biggest issue with Ben's accuracy is the fact that he is almost always scrambling. Brady, Manning, Brees all have great offense lines that allow them to drop back and properly set their feet and drive the ball down the field. Ben has little time to scramble and then reset to throw when he has defenders breathing down his back constantly.

I think that the Steelers should try to find a way to get Wallace more involved in crossing routes and use his speed to his advantage to break one. Tone was great at this and I think Wallace is good enough to make it happen. If Ben has good protection in Dallas on the turf and can **** back and let one rip, I think that Wallace can burn Woodson or Williams. The key is giving Ben that protection and having man coverage on Wallace.

The Packers D is nothing to laugh about. Their secondary is top notch and their D line is pretty good too. If the Steelers can establish some sort of running game early, that should open it up for play action to one of our speed demons.

I really believe that the offense is going to have to win this game. The Packers offense has too many weapons and I think that Rodgers will pick our weak secondary apart. Ben, Mendy, Heath, Hines, AB, Sanders and Wallace are going to have to play at an elite level which means the O line is going to have to play at that level.

plenewken
01-25-2011, 01:19 PM
I don't think I ever claimed Ben was as accurate from the pocket as The Big 3, aka P.Manning, Brady, and Brees. I'm just saying he's not chopped meat back there in the pocket either. You can't throw for over 4000 yards in a season or 500 in a single game throwing strictly from the edge. Honestly outside of the big 3, and maybe Rodgers I think if Ben has a more stable o-line he'll prove to be as good as any of the rest from the pocket. When Ben has the opportunity to step directly into a throw I find him to be deadly accurate.

Honestly Plenk, I think we're close to being on the same page, I know Ben's a little rough around the edges, and probably will never be as polished as Brady, Manning, and Brees. But those guys are generational (if that's a word? :chuckle:) in their ability, few ever could be put in that category.

I think we are pretty much on the same page. Ben's not chopped meat in the pocket and the 3 others are filet mignon. <g>
Ben's indeed a little rough around the edges style wise, but he manages to play solid enough when it matters most and that's what we pay him big bucks for
I'd like to see Ben really put on convincing numbers against a good team like Manning or Brady can. Until now, either the good teams beat us or when we beat them Ben wasn't the main reason we did. See what I mean? That's what Elite QB means to me.

zulater
01-25-2011, 01:33 PM
I think we are pretty much on the same page. Ben's not chopped meat in the pocket and the 3 others are filet mignon. <g>
Ben's indeed a little rough around the edges style wise, but he manages to play solid enough when it matters most and that's what we pay him big bucks for
I'd like to see Ben really put on convincing numbers against a good team like Manning or Brady can. Until now, either the good teams beat us or when we beat them Ben wasn't the main reason we did. See what I mean? That's what Elite QB means to me.

The ironic thing is, Ben's career playoff passer ratings are very comparable to both Manning and Brady.


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/post/ (88.4 rtg.)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/gamelog/post/ (85.4 rtg.)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00/gamelog/#stats_playoffs (85.7 rtg.)


Look at the very bottom line, career culmative playoff passing stats. :noidea:

sarahpalinhater
01-25-2011, 01:50 PM
This thread sucks. Anyone saying Ben is not an Elite QB is just clueless. I mean our team will never let any QB just pass for the sake of getting QB numbers like Brady, Manning and Brees and Rivers are allowed to. But even with that,,,look at his stats so far.

Ben just completed his 7th NFL Season. He has 2800 career pass attempts, and 144 TD's. His career completion percentage is over 63 %, and has over 22,500 passing yards and TWO Super Bowl titles....in 7 years! Now, lets look at say..John Elway. Elway played 16 years. Elway attempted 7,250 pass attempts, and had 300 TD passes, and a career QB rating of 79.9, as where Ben after 7 years has a QB rating of 93. Now, lets say Ben passes 500 times next year in his 8th season, and has say 26 TD;s. That will put him at 3,300 career pass attempts, and 170 TD's in HALF the years that Elway played, and the same amount of Super Bowl wins,,,,maybe even MORE! Come a week from Sunday. Now, pro rate that for another 8 years and Ben will be at over 340 career TD's passing. More, or just as many Rushing TD's as John Elway ever had. More then 50,000 career passing yards. A completion percentage of 63 % ( Or higher )..Elway's was 56 % and who knows how many Super Bowl titles.


But hey,,,,I guess John Elway was not a ELITE QB either...Huh :toofunny::toofunny:

zulater
01-25-2011, 02:01 PM
This thread sucks. Anyone saying Ben is not an Elite QB is just clueless. I mean our team will never let any QB just pass for the sake of getting QB numbers like Brady, Manning and Brees and Rivers are allowed to. But even with that,,,look at his stats so far.

Ben just completed his 7th NFL Season. He has 2800 career pass attempts, and 144 TD's. His career completion percentage is over 63 %, and has over 22,500 passing yards and TWO Super Bowl titles....in 7 years! Now, lets look at say..John Elway. Elway played 16 years. Elway attempted 7,250 pass attempts, and had 300 TD passes, and a career QB rating of 79.9, as where Ben after 7 years has a QB rating of 93. Now, lets say Ben passes 500 times next year in his 8th season, and has say 26 TD;s. That will put him at 3,300 career pass attempts, and 170 TD's in HALF the years that Elway played, and the same amount of Super Bowl wins,,,,maybe even MORE! Come a week from Sunday. Now, pro rate that for another 8 years and Ben will be at over 340 career TD's passing. More, or just as many Rushing TD's as John Elway ever had. More then 50,000 career passing yards. A completion percentage of 63 % ( Or higher )..Elway's was 56 % and who knows how many Super Bowl titles.


But hey,,,,I guess John Elway was not a ELITE QB either...Huh :toofunny::toofunny:

You can't compare qb's of different era's by stats. The game is played differently.

sarahpalinhater
01-25-2011, 02:12 PM
You can't compare qb's of different era's by stats. The game is played differently.



I'm not talking Otto Graham. I'm talking John Elway, and he DID play in this era. He played his entire career in the 16 game seasonal format. He played 15 years after the likes of Bradshaw, Tark and Stahback. And the rules of the game were the same for him as they are now in the league.

UF-Steeler
01-25-2011, 02:37 PM
This thread got derailed so hard. It was about Wallace after all.

I don't really understand why it was made anyway. Wallace didn't do anything special this last playoff game because Ben wasn't exactly throwing great passes out there a lot. In fact, he didn't pass that much at all. When you dominate on the ground that well, I don't expect to see Wallace making huge plays all game in 10 degree weather.

In addition to my argument earlier. I disagree with you about Ben's accuracy. There are times that Ben doesn't lead the receiver well or make the perfect throw, but then there are times he has perfect accuracy and steps up in the pocket and guns it to a receiver. I guess it's his inconsistency that really separates him in a lot of peoples' eyes. I also agree with the poster who mentioned that maybe Ben's accuracy isn't always so good because he's running around trying to make plays. It's rare that I see a nice pocket like Brees, Manning, or Brady have that he can step up in and gun it. When he does have that, he makes nice throws.

Whatever, I'm a homer.

SteelKnight
01-25-2011, 04:12 PM
This thread got derailed so hard. It was about Wallace after all.

I don't really understand why it was made anyway. Wallace didn't do anything special this last playoff game because Ben wasn't exactly throwing great passes out there a lot.

Yeah. It is about Wallace.
He has been shut down for 2 games ...I know...really good defenses but GB is another really good defense (2nd to us in scoring D...7th against pass).

All I'm saying is if he wants to be considered one of the best (like he said) then 3 games in a row...all postseason would not be good. He is due. Great players find a way to be great no mater who is covering them. It is OK to have one or 2 kryptonites around the league but it can't be every team's top corner. Jennings will be expected to step up and Wallace will be too.

What I'm saying is probably the same thing Tomlin is saying...no excuses, no explanation...do your thing.

To be clear, I love Wallace. What I'm trying to avoid is that mentality ...Sanders and Brown will have to step up because Woodson and Williams will be covering Wallace and Ward. So? F them. Hit them in the mouth and get busy.

Go Wallace:tt02:

MikeHaullace
01-25-2011, 11:42 PM
Noooooo chance!! Ben's got a pretty good deep ball. I'd say that maybe 20% are underthrown. I've seen him underthrow Wallace on 40+ yarders only twice this season (tell me if I'm wrong) and overthrew him once. Ben has an impressive deep ball and I'd dare say one of the best in the league at the moment. Not to live in the past, but that deep throw to Brown against Baltimore in the clutch .. wow!

Dude. Just because ball is completed, doesn't mean it wasn't under-thrown. That's all I'm sayin'. Ben rarely hits the receiver in stride, historically speaking.

Is he getting better? Yes.

So Ben is Wallace's excuse.

MikeHaullace
01-26-2011, 12:53 AM
Hell, in the spirit of this Super Bowl, let's go back to last year's game against the Packers.

Very first offensive play.

Steelers 40. Play action. Homerun ball to Wallace.

Had Bush beat at the 30, turned looking at the 20, and eventually completely turned around and catching the ball at the 10, before luckily getting into the end zone for 6.

Wallace's speed > Ben's game-speed arm.

Rick5895
01-26-2011, 03:52 AM
Because of the type of D the Packers play, I expect more slant calls to Wallace, similiar to the one vs Carolina. As with our D, there are holes in the zone..I think Wallace will have at least 1 big play and do his job clearing the middle. As people have said when referring to ben "it's more than just stats" . Same holds true for Wallace. His presence will clear the underneath and open things up for Hines and heath.

UF-Steeler
01-26-2011, 07:47 AM
Yeah. It is about Wallace.
He has been shut down for 2 games ...I know...really good defenses but GB is another really good defense (2nd to us in scoring D...7th against pass).

All I'm saying is if he wants to be considered one of the best (like he said) then 3 games in a row...all postseason would not be good. He is due. Great players find a way to be great no mater who is covering them. It is OK to have one or 2 kryptonites around the league but it can't be every team's top corner. Jennings will be expected to step up and Wallace will be too.

What I'm saying is probably the same thing Tomlin is saying...no excuses, no explanation...do your thing.

To be clear, I love Wallace. What I'm trying to avoid is that mentality ...Sanders and Brown will have to step up because Woodson and Williams will be covering Wallace and Ward. So? F them. Hit them in the mouth and get busy.

Go Wallace:tt02:

I understand what you're saying, but that is the point of having a guy like Wallace. He takes the attention away from other players because he's such a threat to score and allows these other players to get open and make plays. It's the Randy Moss factor (I know Wallace isn't Moss). Wallace doesn't have to make tons of catches to allow bad match ups that give us the advantage.

I want nothing more than to see Wallace tear it up. I think quick slants and allowing him to get some yards after the catch will help get him into the game and also give him the oppurtunity to make a big play with his speed. However, if he doesn't make a bunch of plays, he is still a factor on that field and he allows bad match ups in other areas. That's just as important imo.

SteelKnight
01-26-2011, 03:57 PM
Because of the type of D the Packers play, I expect more slant calls to Wallace, similiar to the one vs Carolina. As with our D, there are holes in the zone..I think Wallace will have at least 1 big play and do his job clearing the middle. As people have said when referring to ben "it's more than just stats" . Same holds true for Wallace. His presence will clear the underneath and open things up for Hines and heath.

Again...I'm not interested in clearing for other guys, taking the top off the defense etc. The best WRs beat the best CBs (with a couple exceptions OK). If they triple team him, fine. I'm not saying he has to have a big game every time but 3 duds in a row ...all post season is not good. He would drop back to "one day" status again. Look at Andre Johnson. They know he is coming every game. He doesn't sneak up on people but he gets it done.

SteelKnight
01-26-2011, 04:04 PM
I understand what you're saying, but that is the point of having a guy like Wallace. He takes the attention away from other players because he's such a threat to score and allows these other players to get open and make plays. It's the Randy Moss factor (I know Wallace isn't Moss). Wallace doesn't have to make tons of catches to allow bad match ups that give us the advantage.

I want nothing more than to see Wallace tear it up. I think quick slants and allowing him to get some yards after the catch will help get him into the game and also give him the oppurtunity to make a big play with his speed. However, if he doesn't make a bunch of plays, he is still a factor on that field and he allows bad match ups in other areas. That's just as important imo.

If he wants to be considered one of the best, he needs to beat people...period. Andre Johnson doesn't just occupy the other teams best corner so others on the team will produce. I don't believe that's how it works for great players. Rice never just occupied the CB/double teams so others could produce. I understand the logic of it but if you are one of the best, it means you can often beat the best CBs on the other teams. I think Wallace has the right attitude though...that he is not afraid of anyone...as it should be. I think it is really the fans making these excuses for him. He's due.

If Jennings doesn't have a good game, I'm going to say he was shut down. I'm not going to say he occupied Ike so Driver, Jones and Nelson could catch. Same with Wallace.

UF-Steeler
01-26-2011, 06:46 PM
The guy is in his second year. How is he due?

If Driver and Jones burn us but Jennings has no catches are you still going to say that he wasn't a factor? It's all hypothetical. Wallace has a lot of time left to prove he's great.

SteelKnight
01-26-2011, 08:13 PM
The guy is in his second year. How is he due?

If Driver and Jones burn us but Jennings has no catches are you still going to say that he wasn't a factor? It's all hypothetical. Wallace has a lot of time left to prove he's great.

He's due a good game. You can't have 3 shut down games in a row in the post season. Where did I ever state that if he doesn't have a good game he will forever be a bust? Never. What i said is that he will be demoted back to "one day" instead of the elevated status of "he has arrived". If that's all you think of him as a second year guy with some potential, there is no need for further discussion.

Like I said before, if someone says DJ needs to have a big game for the Eagles to win, nobody want to hear about how young he will be and whether he will be better one day.

If Jennings gets shut down, he will have gotten shut down. I won't go say "He wasn't a factor" because anytime you can occupy the top corner, you contributed somewhat ...otherwise the top CB would have been guarding someone else. That's not the kind of contribution I'm looking for from Wallace...occupying good CB so others can get open. If someone did that all season, they'd have no yards. I'm looking for him to beat them and I know he can.

Ben says GB plays more man so every time he's not double covered, he needs to step up. For great players they just do it. Coordinators need to find ways to make them open. Try to draw the safety...occupy safeties with 4WR on the field,..something.

Anyway, I never heard that with Rice...nor do I hear that with Andre Johnson ...that all they have to do is occupy CBs and their teams should be happy.

The question is "how good is Wallace now?"...not "how good will he be?". I believe he is good now. He needs to step up and hit Woodson or Williams in the mouth. This is the playoffs/postseason. If Jennings got shut down for 3 games in a row, people wouldn't make excuses for him. C'mon.

I have a feeling he will come through. If he doesn't, he doesn't though...I won't be impressed with that occupy stuff. I'll just think hopefully next year he will be better.

caseyviator
01-27-2011, 06:57 PM
Who's going to throw him the ball ? ben cant get the ball down the field to him unless we play Cleveland next week ? maybe El can throw him a deep ball.

ben throws deep better than any qb in the league he actually has the pest yards /completetion all time in the nfl alltime number one!!!! say again alltime

also every qb has a hard time throwin the ball deep in 5 degree weather all of them do..fact is ben is the best down the field thrower in the nfl...
wait to u see him in perfect 70 degree weather on a super fast field!!!

caseyviator
01-27-2011, 06:59 PM
Do you watch any of the games or just look at the stat line ? 95% of Wallaces yards are after a 10-15 pass and he runs after the catch.... get real. The longest throw to Wallace actually in the air this year was by leftwich in the preseason vs the giants. Right on the money... Ben looks like a noodle arm with all his under thrown passes this year... oh except when he drilled it to Mendy about 100 mph from 5 yards away for a INT yesterday !

yea ur sooo rite hes never hit him on a 50 yarder threw the air never...and wallace always catches 10-15 yarders and runs for 70 yards omg dude do u even watch the games

USWSteel
01-27-2011, 11:22 PM
ben throws deep better than any qb in the league he actually has the pest yards /completetion all time in the nfl alltime number one!!!! say again alltime

also every qb has a hard time throwin the ball deep in 5 degree weather all of them do..fact is ben is the best down the field thrower in the nfl...
wait to u see him in perfect 70 degree weather on a super fast field!!!

I warm front must have blew in on the play to Holmes !! Sanchez looked like he was really having a hard time throwing that bomb to Holmes that he put on him right in stride, something Ben can hardly due. Its amazing that do you expect Wallace to throw it to himself ? Wallace is constantly beating the coverages and Ben doesnt get him the ball.

SteelKnight
01-28-2011, 12:36 AM
I warm front must have blew in on the play to Holmes !! Sanchez looked like he was really having a hard time throwing that bomb to Holmes that he put on him right in stride, something Ben can hardly due. Its amazing that do you expect Wallace to throw it to himself ? Wallace is constantly beating the coverages and Ben doesnt get him the ball.

Go to 1:38

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XUdoNla4TU

Look at that pass and the one after...both over 50 yards and on target.

MikeHaullace
01-28-2011, 01:08 AM
I thought it was established before...

Ben can throw deep. Not always pretty. Not always accurate. But has numbers to prove he's put it there with a higher degree of consistency. And could probably do so with most WRs in the NFL.

Mike Wallace's speed > Ben Roethlisberger's arm

Plain and simple. I think, at least. You have to factor where they play most of their games (outside).

Now, in climate controlled conditions. Ben throws a tight spiral. And when he throws a tight ball, it gets where it needs to get. But on Mike on fast turf? Super Bowl XLV can't get here soon enough.

SteelKnight
01-28-2011, 01:16 AM
I thought it was established before...

Ben can throw deep. Not always pretty. Not always accurate. But has numbers to prove he's put it there with a higher degree of consistency. And could probably do so with most WRs in the NFL.

Mike Wallace's speed > Ben Roethlisberger's arm

Plain and simple. I think, at least. You have to factor where they play most of their games (outside).

Now, in climate controlled conditions. Ben throws a tight spiral. And when he throws a tight ball, it gets where it needs to get. But on Mike on fast turf? Super Bowl XLV can't get here soon enough.

If that's the case, Ben will just have to throw it sooner...when they are even.

LOL I was wondering how the CB always knows the ball is coming and i was even thinking the receiver could do a fake mini jump and pretend then when the CB jumps, turns around to face the ball he would be gone. Then I figured it out. It's the freaking crowd. lol The sound they make when a bomb is in the air is different I think...maybe.

MikeHaullace
01-28-2011, 01:34 AM
If that's the case, Ben will just have to throw it sooner...

It is kind of funny because I edited out a part where I made mention of Ben needing to throw it sooner but I didn't want TPTB's intelligence to be insulted. So I removed it.



LOL I was wondering how the CB always knows the ball is coming and i was even thinking the receiver could do a fake mini jump and pretend then when the CB jumps, turns around to face the ball he would be gone. Then I figured it out. It's the freaking crowd. lol The sound they make when a bomb is in the air is different I think...maybe.



I like your theory though doubt it's accuracy. :chuckle:

SteelKnight
01-28-2011, 01:58 AM
I like your theory though doubt it's accuracy. :chuckle:

LOL You don't think the crowd noise changes when the ball is in the air? I think it does. I'll pay attention next time I watch an NFL replay game.

If it doesn't then my move would be brilliant. Wallace should just jump up wit his hands out and the CB would turn around (to avoid a PI by not facing the ball) or just jump towards him to block him. He then lands and goes faster. Ben would have to know to throw it as soon as he lands. That would give little time for the CB to make an adjustment.

If not the crowd noise...it would be perfect. The CB always jumps with the WR and turns around.

Acerinox
01-28-2011, 04:00 AM
SteelKnight, I know you are doing your usual - posting 2 replies out of every five so it looks like there are a lot of people who agree with you... but let me say

This. Is. Stupid.

You say Wallace will have failed if he is shut down three games in a row. I say you are WRONG.

It IS enough for him to take the opposition's best defensive weapons out of the game. It really, really is. If teams need to deploy their best corner and/or keep a safety deep against him, that creates a weakness for them somewhere else. It is enough. One more deep safety means more fun for the run. One double coverage means space for Heath and Hines over the middle. It is a TEAM GAME. This is what STRATEGY is. Surely you can see this?

Now you've been all "HOLLYWOOOOOD!" on us and said:
Oh but if he's going to be great he needs to catch passes no matter how many people are covering him and what the circumstances. Look at the stats! Won't somebody pleeeeez look at the stats! The Staaaats!

But here's the difference between Wallace and some of the other "greats" you tout, like Jennings.
If we look to shut down Jennings, Rodgers will still try to throw to him; force it in there maybe.
Ben will NOT look to force the ball to Wallace under the same circumstances.
We're not that kind of team, we will look to other weapons, pure and simple.
So no matter how much you will cry all over our Lombardi about how Wallace hasn't "made it" because he didn't catch 9 balls for 140 yards in double coverage - it won't happen - because Ben won't throw it to him in double coverage, period.

Can we stop this now?

SteelKnight
01-30-2011, 04:07 PM
SteelKnight, I know you are doing your usual - posting 2 replies out of every five so it looks like there are a lot of people who agree with you... but let me say

This. Is. Stupid.

You say Wallace will have failed if he is shut down three games in a row. I say you are WRONG.

It IS enough for him to take the opposition's best defensive weapons out of the game. It really, really is. If teams need to deploy their best corner and/or keep a safety deep against him, that creates a weakness for them somewhere else. It is enough. One more deep safety means more fun for the run. One double coverage means space for Heath and Hines over the middle. It is a TEAM GAME. This is what STRATEGY is. Surely you can see this?

Now you've been all "HOLLYWOOOOOD!" on us and said:
Oh but if he's going to be great he needs to catch passes no matter how many people are covering him and what the circumstances. Look at the stats! Won't somebody pleeeeez look at the stats! The Staaaats!

But here's the difference between Wallace and some of the other "greats" you tout, like Jennings.
If we look to shut down Jennings, Rodgers will still try to throw to him; force it in there maybe.
Ben will NOT look to force the ball to Wallace under the same circumstances.
We're not that kind of team, we will look to other weapons, pure and simple.
So no matter how much you will cry all over our Lombardi about how Wallace hasn't "made it" because he didn't catch 9 balls for 140 yards in double coverage - it won't happen - because Ben won't throw it to him in double coverage, period.

Can we stop this now?

LOL

First, if I want to respond to someone or I get some info, I just post. I don't look for MB cred...lol That kind of stuff is not impressive to me. Sometimes I think it is courteous to respond to others points in a thread of mine. Certainly more posts doesn't mean more agree anyway so we can lay that to rest. :sofunny:

Now...I agree it is a team game. Players can't come through all the time but being shut down 3 post season games in a row will just mean he is not ready. The OC should design plays to create mismatches when it is man D and when it is zone, a WR has to be crafty about finding the holes.

I'm a big Wallace fan but if he gets shut down for his 3rd game, I'll just say "one day" he is going to be awesome (maybe even next year) but it will be a sign to me that he is not there yet.

Again...I know it is a team game but when they asked him he said he wants to be considered one of the best at his position and I will repeat, the best at his position would not get shut down for 3 straight playoff games. They find a way to "be great" (like Holmes was saying in his SB mode). They step up and come through.

You made an interesting point about the trying to still get a receiver the ball. That would require more discussion. Here is a point to consider: If they put the best defender on him for 17 games with occasional double teams and he ended up with a horrible season stat-wise (catches, yards, TDs), would that be enough for you to consider him one of the best? Stats certainly are not everything but sometimes they reflect production.

The great ones find a way to bereak through and get their catches anyway (with occasional shut downs). It's the way it's always been. Can you imagine if for SB 43, Holmes just decided all he needed to do was keep their best CB occupied and if he got shut down, that would be fine. That's just not how it's done....not among the greats. Rice never said "Oh no...this is too tough. I'll occupy them so Taylor can get open. I wish they would stop covering me so hard but that's their loss, the team will benefit."

BTW. I'm not predicting he will be shut down (love the guy). I am hoping he has a great game...but if he is, no prob...it just means he's not ready and maybe next year he'll step up to that level. Also...Rodgers has other options apart from Jennings (pretty potent actually...Driver, Jones, Nelson) but I still expect Jennings to show up...not just "occupy".

If you are up for fun discussion, I'm in but if you think my statement means I don't love the Steelers, I'm not a fan of Wallace or that I've said he can never be anything if he doesn't produce in the SB then I'd be wasting my time. :drink:

SteelKnight
02-06-2011, 04:31 PM
I'm excited about Wallace. I hope he comes through like I know he can.

No excuses.

Jennings needs to show up for the pack. he won't be satisfied to get shut down and say he "occupied" Ike for the Pack so the others could catch.

Wallace shouldn't be thinking of that "occupy" thing either. He can't be "That' Mike Wallace will get you if you forget about him." He needs to be "That' make Wallace will get you."

Let's go.