PDA

View Full Version : Its a frickin Novel folks......


3 to be 4
04-30-2006, 07:56 AM
A pretty interesting article that sheds some light on this new sensation that is
supposedly searching for "the truth". Be careful what tries to pass as fact.

i mean, just because Dan Brown,Ron Howard, and Tom Hanks say so.........:dang:

http://www.charismamag.com/display.php?id=1286020

3 to be 4
04-30-2006, 07:58 AM
http://www.family.org/cforum/citizenmag/departments/a0032629.cfm

sorry the above link didnt work. try this one......

SteelShooter
04-30-2006, 11:54 PM
wow.................

SteelerDan43
04-30-2006, 11:59 PM
People get all worked up over nothing, just like when they boycotted Dogma. Let it go guys just let it go

3 to be 4
05-01-2006, 05:31 AM
no boycott. boycotts are ridiculous. just dont want people thinking its anything more or less than a movie,as opposed to the "truth revealed"

DiggetyDank
05-01-2006, 05:50 AM
I don't really think people that believe that the bible is historically accurate have any room to attack a fiction author. If more people cared about facts in this country, that guy who started a "creationist museum" that says that Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs (with saddles!) wouldn't have a pot to piss in.

Every time I read the Christian opposition to this movie, I have a good laugh. Like I'm going to trust a Christian ideologue that believes the earth is 6,000 years old - he's got as much credibilty as some hack Sci-Fi author. At least you know that the author's in it for the big bucks - the PHD that the article quotes is a professor of New Testament studies at a seminary - I mean, isn't that the same thing as being a professor of Literature? He's a glorified book critic.

I would agree however that the Da Vinci Code is a stupid, boring book - the movie doubly so.

Also: Just because Pat Robertson, Ken Hovind, and Jim Dobson say it, doesn't mean that it's true.

ARKIESTEEL
05-01-2006, 06:12 AM
Dogma wasnt real? Man they fooled me

DiggetyDank
05-01-2006, 07:28 AM
Same here - turns out I was just blinded by the light, AKA Salma Hayak.

Suitanim
05-01-2006, 07:54 AM
I thought the Da Vinci Code was a good read in the pot boiler vein, but by no means a well written book. All Brown's books follow the same exact formula, so much so that it's easy to identify the "bad guy" almost as soon as he's introduced. I personally like books that are based on puzzles, especially one's that deal with history.

As for how factual it is, who cares? It's a work of fiction. I also am wondering when are the right wing evangelical types EVER going to learn that their protests are nothing more than free publicity?

SteelerDan43
05-01-2006, 08:11 AM
no boycott. boycotts are ridiculous. just dont want people thinking its anything more or less than a movie,as opposed to the "truth revealed"

I didnt mean boycott the movie, I was commenting on the fact that anytime anyone does anything dealing with religion some group of people whether it be the Scientologists as of late of the Catholics with Dogma flip out and say its blasphomous. And in the case of the DaVinci Code, untrue. When in reality no one has a clue what actually happened, we have beliefs but no real concrete facts. As far as I know the book was published as a work of fiction so you can take that at face value. People just need to relax a little and not bitch so much about things that make no real difference one way or the other

floodcitygirl
05-01-2006, 08:47 AM
I didnt mean boycott the movie, I was commenting on the fact that anytime anyone does anything dealing with religion some group of people whether it be the Scientologists as of late of the Catholics with Dogma flip out and say its blasphomous. And in the case of the DaVinci Code, untrue. When in reality no one has a clue what actually happened, we have beliefs but no real concrete facts. As far as I know the book was published as a work of fiction so you can take that at face value. People just need to relax a little and not bitch so much about things that make no real difference one way or the other I'm not an authority by any stretch - never read the book - but my understanding is that the author makes claims about the research etc that he did for the book making conclusions that he says are accurate truth...even though it's supposed to be fiction.

beSteelmyheart
05-01-2006, 07:00 PM
It seems like the same type of outcry that erupted after "The Last Temptation of Christ"-the Christians wanted to scream evil but the last temptation (if I remember right) was that God offered Jesus a "normal" life, like being married, having a family..he could choose that, or choose to die on the cross. It's interesting how it also seems to include Mary Magdalene. I have been wanting to read The DaVinci code, & may re-read The last Temptation of Christ, just to see if there are any parallels.
Jesus very well may have been the first "feminist"-His teachings include equality & respect for everyone.
What I also find interesting is the outcry from Christians...what are they afraid of?
Personally, I think that you can seek to improve yourself as a person by doing what you feel is right, based on His teachings, or your own conscience, but why close your mind?
Is that what it means to be born again? Just blind faith & fear of anything else?

3 to be 4
05-01-2006, 10:20 PM
I'm not an authority by any stretch - never read the book - but my understanding is that the author makes claims about the research etc that he did for the book making conclusions that he says are accurate truth...even though it's supposed to be fiction.

this is the point. Its Dan Brown who is going around claiming its all based on "historical fact". And it is, in fact, fiction.
I agree that many Christians get "hysterical" etc etc. I wasnt trying to convey that.
This Christian isnt telling one person not to see the movie or read the book, just pointing out that the author is being a little loose with the "truth".

By the way, where were all the defenders of "free speech" and "artistic expression" when
"The Passion of the Christ" came out? Mel Gibson got hammered. Ron Howard will win the Oscar, Im sure.

3 to be 4
05-01-2006, 11:08 PM
It seems like the same type of outcry that erupted after "The Last Temptation of Christ"-the Christians wanted to scream evil but the last temptation (if I remember right) was that God offered Jesus a "normal" life, like being married, having a family..he could choose that, or choose to die on the cross. It's interesting how it also seems to include Mary Magdalene. I have been wanting to read The DaVinci code, & may re-read The last Temptation of Christ, just to see if there are any parallels.
Jesus very well may have been the first "feminist"-His teachings include equality & respect for everyone.
What I also find interesting is the outcry from Christians...what are they afraid of?
Personally, I think that you can seek to improve yourself as a person by doing what you feel is right, based on His teachings, or your own conscience, but why close your mind?
Is that what it means to be born again? Just blind faith & fear of anything else?


1. God offered Jesus a "normal" life? when was that?
2. There is no historical evidence Jesus ever married.
3. I agree, Jesus was a feminist.
4. Christians are rightly concerned about others being deceived about the life of Jesus Christ and are concerned about people losing their faith over this deception. To Christians
it means a soul has been lost. To non-believers that might not mean much, but to us it is
the saddest thing in the world. And you dont have to lump nuts like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell into it. They give Christianity a bad name. Christians HAVE done a lousy job
communicating who Jesus is and was. Most Christians DO fall back on fear and forget about love. That doesnt make claiming you have historical facts when you dont in order to "seek the truth" and prove conspiracy theories to sell books and movies a good thing.
5. I dont believe Jesus taught to do what you feel is right.
6. To be Born Again is hardly about "Blind Faith". Its faith based on intelligent research.
for example, can you explain how 333 prophesies, written 500 years earlier, were all fulfilled by one man? Prophesies that lead you by lineage, by location, by events?
Can you explain 500 people, witnesses to the risen Lord, testifying to their own torturous deaths, without ONE recanting in order to spare themselves? Why would they do that if it wasnt true? Would you tell a lie in order to make a political/religious agenda come true and then withstand the kind of gruesome death that they did? Not one recanted.
authenticity? no documents have faced more scrutiny than the Bible. No, real Christians dont have "Blind Faith". Its based on something real and educated and logical.
So when Dan brown says ridiculous things like Jesus himself never claimed to be God, or that Gospels were suppressed from the Dead Sea Scrolls when any historian knows the Dead Sea Scrolls pre-DATED Jesus, or that Leonardo DaVinci EVER referred to his painting as the "Mona Lisa" when that title never appeared until the 19th Century, than Christians are going to say something.
Lee Stroebels book "The Case for Christ" is worth looking into it. A non-Christian, he set out to do a journalistic research on why Christ wasnt God and during his digging became a Christian. All based on intellectual reasons.
But there is also the love. the Love that had Jesus go to the cross to fulfill prophesy, in order to take away our sin. What we saw when we watched "the Passion of the Christ" was not "violence" as movie critics harped on. It was the Love that God had for us that he willingly went to the cross and was beaten and skinned and nailed and bloodied so that we might have life. Man without God is so full of sin that he would take God in the form of man and drive nails into him. But who else but God would look at those people and say "Forgive them for they know not what they do"
So us kookie Christians weep while others make fun of it. We arent afraid, we are passionate about our King and we are determined to face lies head on,with God as our standard. It is what the Lord asked us to do before He died.

Go read the book. Watch the movie. But know what is and is not the truth.

I hope that didnt sound "hysterical" Some Christians are. ignore Christians.
Focus on Jesus Christ.

tony hipchest
05-02-2006, 12:04 AM
in about 2000 years d. browns book will be about as highly regarded as "the world according to garp"

we'll see where the good news is by that point.

beSteelmyheart
05-02-2006, 04:23 PM
1. God offered Jesus a "normal" life? when was that?
Focus on Jesus Christ.

I didn't say that God offered Jesus a normal life, I said that's what the book said, if I remembered it right, being as I'd read it years ago. And in no way did I claim it as truth, it began as a book discussion, my apologies if I worded that wrong. You're obviously a better writer than I am.
I do believe in God & Jesus, but also believe that people know in their hearts what is truly right & wrong, even if they've never read the Bible. Some just choose to ignore that feeling.
Now since I'm defending myself, I also need to expand my thinking about blind faith..the remark began as I thought of people I have known or met that have just closed their minds to everything else. Any work of fiction about Jesus is instantly bad. Why get upset about a work of fiction? Maybe some will be influenced by it, but personally, I am just curious, as I am about alot of things.
Also, along with bible laws & prophesy, there are also laws of science. They don't seem to mesh well with religion, & although I am a Creationist, there are things out there that haven't yet been explained to me. Maybe if a Bible scholar & a geneticist can get together & help me out, I would appreciate it. I can't have someone just tell me not to worry about it, take it on faith. Yes, I may have faith, but I still want to know the how & the why of things, will always be curious about the world around me, it's human nature to seek the truth, whether they find it in science or religion or a combination of both.
What of those Bible scholars who know the teachings of Jesus backwards & forwards & never happen to notice the beauty of Creation?
Is it bad to be curious just because Eve was? Is it bad to read a book, just because you like to read, want to see what the author has to say, to either think about it afterwards or throw it across the room? And if a person does have faith, does that require a blind eye to the other truths that exist?

tony hipchest
05-02-2006, 04:58 PM
Also, along with bible laws & prophesy, there are also laws of science. They don't seem to mesh well with religion, & although I am a Creationist, there are things out there that haven't yet been explained to me. Maybe if a Bible scholar & a geneticist can get together & help me out, I would appreciate it. well i am neither but i have studied both all my life to quell my own questions.

actually they fit together just fine if every single word in the greatest piece of literature isnt taken so literally. the world is not 6,000 years old as the literallists would contend. there is the story (actually printed in the bible) of Jesus sitting down with the scholors (when he was 12 years old) and educating them on all the sciences, bible, philosophy, etc. these "elders" were amazed that this kid could explain and knew so much.

the flood, sodom and gommorrah, jerhico, the plagues in egypt, have all been explained scientifically. if you believe God created the world he, in a sense, is the powers we call science.

we can all agree that the bible says that God created everything in 6 days. what is a day to God vs. a day to humans? a day is a measurement of time created by humans for time keeping purposes. if God created the heavens and earth in one day, how can you measure it, being that a day is the ammount of time it takes the earth to revolve. if a day is different for each of our 9 planets it stands to reason it would be different for man and God.

God created man "in his image". this tell me that adam and eve werent the 1st people, but the 1st people "created" with the knowledge of God. by God revealing himself to his people he "created" them in "his image". he wanted them to be like him.

the bible is text that is thousands of years old. it is very likely that things have been lost in translation along the way. did God create the plants and animals all of a sudden for the 2 people he made? no. coincidentally enough, the adam and eve period is about the same time that man evolved from hunters and gatherers, to cultivators and those who could domesticate animals.

God created all cro magnons, cavemen, hominids, apes, etc. what adam and eve represent is the creation of a smarter kind of man that had a distinct advantage over all other humans on earth with the power of knowledge, agriculture, domestication, and civilization.

science backs this up. the first signs of civilization are found in the tigris, euphrates valley (modern iraq) and right where the garden of eden supposedly was.

the battle between creationists and bible litteralists ticks me off cause when you really understand both, it really makes so much sense and goes hand in hand.

Suitanim
05-02-2006, 05:29 PM
One thing that the DVC got right was that the Catholic Church has had an ENORMOUS influence over the Religion of Christianity, and not always a good influence.

A great example is the virginity of Mary. Mary is a virgin because the Council of Nicaea said she was, not based on any divine affirmation, nor on scripture. One day she wasn't a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus (according to several sects of Catholics), then the next day (circa 325 AD) she was, and it was absolute heresy to say differently.

Her role has changed considerably in the Church over the years, and in no small part to the importance of the Church courting women.

There's an awful lot of dogma and ritual involved in the Catholic Church that has no basis in, well, anything, to be quite frank. Sorry to offend any Catholics, but you can look all this stuff up yourself if you doubt me.

3 to be 4
05-02-2006, 06:19 PM
I didn't say that God offered Jesus a normal life, I said that's what the book said, if I remembered it right, being as I'd read it years ago. And in no way did I claim it as truth, it began as a book discussion, my apologies if I worded that wrong. You're obviously a better writer than I am.
I do believe in God & Jesus, but also believe that people know in their hearts what is truly right & wrong, even if they've never read the Bible. Some just choose to ignore that feeling.
Now since I'm defending myself, I also need to expand my thinking about blind faith..the remark began as I thought of people I have known or met that have just closed their minds to everything else. Any work of fiction about Jesus is instantly bad. Why get upset about a work of fiction? Maybe some will be influenced by it, but personally, I am just curious, as I am about alot of things.
Also, along with bible laws & prophesy, there are also laws of science. They don't seem to mesh well with religion, & although I am a Creationist, there are things out there that haven't yet been explained to me. Maybe if a Bible scholar & a geneticist can get together & help me out, I would appreciate it. I can't have someone just tell me not to worry about it, take it on faith. Yes, I may have faith, but I still want to know the how & the why of things, will always be curious about the world around me, it's human nature to seek the truth, whether they find it in science or religion or a combination of both.
What of those Bible scholars who know the teachings of Jesus backwards & forwards & never happen to notice the beauty of Creation?
Is it bad to be curious just because Eve was? Is it bad to read a book, just because you like to read, want to see what the author has to say, to either think about it afterwards or throw it across the room? And if a person does have faith, does that require a blind eye to the other truths that exist?

I actually agree most of what you said. You shouldnt just "take it on faith". You should want to know the how and why of things and seek it out. And there a-plenty of Bible Scholars and Religious folk and "Churchie" people who dont get it one bit. So stuck on ritual and law and without a clue about a personal relationship with JC. Again, its not bad to read a book. Its fine to read the Davinci Code. But its the author and the people who are falling hook, line, and sinker that are passing on false information. Its important to shed light on that. But fine if you want to go see it. Star Trek was fun too.
Im sorry if i came on too strong. Im passionate about the issue and as anyone who has read my posts knows, im "out there" myself. Im a sinner just like everybody else.
And any Christian who acts like they are perfect (see Baptist Temple in Florence,SC) is full of it. Christians are only sinners who have asked for forgiveness. So dont think you need to be "on the defensive" with me. I just get on a roll sometimes...........

tony hipchest
05-02-2006, 06:31 PM
since were discussing literature, i find it interresting that the old books of the bible, are some of the oldest forms of literature known to man. they are some of the oldest historical records kept of man (whether you consider them fact or fiction is irrelevant) they still are the oldest attempts of historical recordkeeping. the 1st census.

yet because it has been turned into a religion, some people consider everything in it to be complete fodder, yet they "believe" in cavewall drawings (25,000 years old) and the heiroglyphs, as historical facts and forms of literature and art (which they are).

if you look at the earliest form of writing known to man, the cunneiform of the persian region, it is smack dab in the middle the region known as the birthplace and walking grounds of adam and eve. coincidence?

3 to be 4
05-02-2006, 08:51 PM
[QUOTE=tony hipchest]
yet because it has been turned into a religion, some people consider everything in it to be complete fodder, yet they "believe" in cavewall drawings (25,000 years old) and the heiroglyphs, as historical facts and forms of literature and art (which they are).
QUOTE]



and people will believe in reincarnation, ESP, space aliens, magic,they'll watch Star Wars and find all the Jedi stuff plausible, they'll watch "Contact" and see a space alien come to Jodi Foster as her Dad so that in that form she can accept it, and they'll believe thats plausible. They'll accept any kind of magical, mystical,supernatural happening ever imagned.

But say you believe that God came to Earth in the form of a man, was killed, and came to life again........................

Suitanim
05-02-2006, 09:05 PM
[quote=tony hipchest]
yet because it has been turned into a religion, some people consider everything in it to be complete fodder, yet they "believe" in cavewall drawings (25,000 years old) and the heiroglyphs, as historical facts and forms of literature and art (which they are).
QUOTE]



and people will believe in reincarnation, ESP, space aliens, magic,they'll watch Star Wars and find all the Jedi stuff plausible, they'll watch "Contact" and see a space alien come to Jodi Foster as her Dad so that in that form she can accept it, and they'll believe thats plausible. They'll accept any kind of magical, mystical,supernatural happening ever imagned.

But say you believe that God came to Earth in the form of a man, was killed, and came to life again........................

Know what the difference is? For the most part, nobody shoves "reincarnation, ESP, space aliens, magic,they'll watch Star Wars and find all the Jedi stuff plausible, they'll watch "Contact" and see a space alien come to Jodi Foster as her Dad so that in that form she can accept it" down anybodies throat when they are 3 years old.

People will arrive at their own conclusions if left alone to decide, but will naturally rebel against anything forced upon them, and, since most people aren't really that smart, they'll make up something crazy and believe the ridiculous as opposed to the more plausible.

tony hipchest
05-02-2006, 09:15 PM
[quote=3 to be 4]



People will arrive at their own conclusions if left alone to decide, but will naturally rebel against anything forced upon them, and, since most people aren't really that smart, they'll make up something crazy and believe the ridiculous as opposed to the more plausible.

as the 1st generation removed from roman catholosism (my dad dropped out, and for not raising me as such, he is doomed to burn in hell) i definitely agree. my beliefs are much stronger, having explored them on my own, rather than having them force fed to me like they were my dad.

the crucades didnt win over alot of people either. or the witch hunts.

3 to be 4
05-02-2006, 09:18 PM
[quote=3 to be 4]

Know what the difference is? For the most part, nobody shoves "reincarnation, ESP, space aliens, magic,they'll watch Star Wars and find all the Jedi stuff plausible, they'll watch "Contact" and see a space alien come to Jodi Foster as her Dad so that in that form she can accept it" down anybodies throat when they are 3 years old.

People will arrive at their own conclusions if left alone to decide, but will naturally rebel against anything forced upon them, and, since most people aren't really that smart, they'll make up something crazy and believe the ridiculous as opposed to the more plausible.


I agree with you totally! I DONT believe a 3 year old, or a 6 year old, or a 12 year old, or anybody should be brow beaten into it like many Christian kids unfortunatly have.
thats where Christians have been so wrong. So insecure in their beliefs that they harass the crap out of people, tell them they are going to burn in hell, all the fear mongering. So they harass but nothing is offered. Certainly not Love. Only fear. Thats why I stayed away for so many years. I didnt want to be a Christian. And now that im on the "inside" I can tell you my experiences in traditional Christian settings my former feelings about most Christians were confirmed.
So I sought people and places whose emphasis wasnt on Christianity but on Christ.
so we agree on the cause.
But it doesnt change the irony.

beSteelmyheart
05-02-2006, 09:33 PM
I think alot of people mistrust religion because of the "brow beating" factor. When you are little, you don't really understand it, but it is forced down your throat & used to scare you-as you get older, you try to make your own connections to God. (sometimes I wonder if organized religion was a tool created long ago to control the masses.)

tony hipchest
05-02-2006, 09:42 PM
I think alot of people mistrust religion because of the "brow beating" factor. When you are little, you don't really understand it, but it is forced down your throat & used to scare you-as you get older, you try to make your own connections to God. (sometimes I wonder if organized religion was a tool created long ago to control the masses.)

im sure "organized religion" as we see it today isnt exactly what Jesus had in mind.

3 to be 4
05-02-2006, 10:56 PM
im sure "organized religion" as we see it today isnt exactly what Jesus had in mind.


not hardly. He admonished the religious folk. He didnt want redundant ritualistic legalistic law. Certainly not the gobs of money flowing around. Theres a great song by a Contemporary Christian singer named Todd Agnew called "My Jesus" in which he says "My Jesus would never be accepted at my church. The blood and dirt and on his feet might stain the carpet....."

Dont let religion get in the way.

tony hipchest
05-02-2006, 11:13 PM
whether youre a believer or non believer or if you believe its fact or fiction, there is a reason this dude is the most read "character" in the world. especially with only about 100-200 pages of text to go off of.

3 to be 4
05-02-2006, 11:19 PM
Amen to that.

For anyone who hasnt seen it, I recommend "The Passion of the Christ" as the greatest love story ever made.

tony hipchest
05-02-2006, 11:28 PM
Amen to that.

For anyone who hasnt seen it, I recommend "The Passion of the Christ" as the greatest love story ever made. funny you mention that. the box office draw of "the passion...", and "the davinci code" in itself will be testament.

funny story about the passion. the 1st time i saw it, it was a bootleg copy sent from my brother-in-law, who was stationned in iraq, long before its video release in america.

(the irony is bootleg copies of a christian movie being readilly available in a muslim nation, whose ass we just kicked.)

Hammer67
05-03-2006, 06:07 AM
[QUOTE=Suitanim]


I agree with you totally! I DONT believe a 3 year old, or a 6 year old, or a 12 year old, or anybody should be brow beaten into it like many Christian kids unfortunatly have.
thats where Christians have been so wrong. So insecure in their beliefs that they harass the crap out of people, tell them they are going to burn in hell, all the fear mongering. So they harass but nothing is offered. Certainly not Love. Only fear. Thats why I stayed away for so many years. I didnt want to be a Christian. And now that im on the "inside" I can tell you my experiences in traditional Christian settings my former feelings about most Christians were confirmed.
So I sought people and places whose emphasis wasnt on Christianity but on Christ.
so we agree on the cause.
But it doesnt change the irony.


It's not "brow beating" Christians that worry me, it's the crazy bastards flying planes into buildings and beheading innocent people in the name of their "Allah". If you want to be preachy, that's fine, I can tune you out. But trying to kill me, that's where I draw the line on psychotic behavior...:horror:

Suitanim
05-03-2006, 08:48 AM
Unfortunately, the Christian Religion used to be almost as bad, and since we're dealing with history here, we have to take all the bad along with the good.

The Crusades
Spanish Inquisition
Burning Witches

Just to name a few...

But I agree...probably the greatest evil in history may be this "Religion of Peace" that preaches torture and killing of all who don't believe.

tony hipchest
05-03-2006, 09:11 AM
speaking of novels, movies, religion, and the spanish inquisition. i highly recommend "the pit and the pendulum" (1990) based on torquemada during the spanish inquisition. if you loved "reanimator" like i did, you will absolutely love this movie too. plenty of gore and suspense:

Genres: Horror
Tagline: A bizarre descent into hell from the creator of re-animator.
Plot Synopsis: It is the time of the Spanish Inquisition. Maria does not like what is going on during the "Auto De Fe". When she speaks out, she is arrested and accused of being a witch. Torquemada has plans for her! He orders her tortured, and her tongue to be cut out. Her husband attempts to free her...
Plot Keywords: Independent Film
› Show all plot keywords recommended by customers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Product Details

Actors: Lance Henriksen, Stephen Lee, William J. Norris, Mark Margolis, Carolyn Purdy-Gordon, See more
Directors: Stuart Gordon
Format: NTSC
Region: Region 1 (U.S. and Canada only. Read more about DVD formats.)

Hammer67
05-03-2006, 09:11 AM
Unfortunately, the Christian Religion used to be almost as bad, and since we're dealing with history here, we have to take all the bad along with the good.

The Crusades
Spanish Inquisition
Burning Witches

Just to name a few...

But I agree...probably the greatest evil in history may be this "Religion of Peace" that preaches torture and killing of all who don't believe.


Very true...Organized religion has been the cause of more war & murder throughout history then any other cause. It is the epitome of irony, to me, that the very organizations that promote love, harmony & forgiveness have shown so little.

To be fair, most modern Christian religions have moved away from their intolerant pasts. If you speak strictly about the here & now, fundamentalist Islam is the root of evil, in my book, not the elderly woman's club Bake Sale at my local Catholic church. I am also curious as to why more of the mainstream Muslim community don't outwardly decry these fundamentalists. There just isn't enough detraction there.

Suitanim
05-03-2006, 10:01 AM
In case anyone missed it, when I say "Religion of Peace", I'm being sarcastic as Hell and refering to Islam.

3 to be 4
05-03-2006, 06:05 PM
Unfortunately, the Christian Religion used to be almost as bad, and since we're dealing with history here, we have to take all the bad along with the good.

The Crusades
Spanish Inquisition
Burning Witches

Just to name a few...

But I agree...probably the greatest evil in history may be this "Religion of Peace" that preaches torture and killing of all who don't believe.

very very true. Anti-Semitism among Christians started with the Roman Catholics.
there seems to finally be an understanding among most practicing Christians that hating Jews is hating yourself. I specifically hang around Christians who dont "do religion"
religion is just ritual. and it HAS indeed caused nothing but heartache. But i also wont just blanket bash all Catholics like many southern Baptists i saw do. There are many Catholics who believe in and love Jesus Christ and arent the "devil worshippers" many nutty Christians say they are.

hey, if you believe Jesus died for our sins, is the son of God, was buried and rose again, thats the important stuff. the rest is B.S. (im directed that to Christians who are hung up on denominations and religion)

Suitanim
05-03-2006, 06:09 PM
I don't even think you need to go that far. What's the definition of "Christian"? It's "Christ-like".

That's the litmus test as far as I'm concerned, and organized Christianity is anything but Christ-like. In fact, almost the polar opposite.

tony hipchest
05-03-2006, 06:42 PM
I don't even think you need to go that far. What's the definition of "Christian"? It's "Christ-like".

That's the litmus test as far as I'm concerned, and organized Christianity is anything but Christ-like. In fact, almost the polar opposite.

Christ pretty much was the ultimate rebel. the anti-church dude back in the day. the church is good for community, and brotherhood, and fellowship.

the bible (and understanding) it is good for salvation, and love, and understanding. regardless of what one believes, the principles behind the stories are good, as long as a specific religion isnt twisting their meaning.

3 to be 4
05-03-2006, 08:54 PM
This is currently my favorite CCM song out right now and its lyrics pretty much
some up the difference between loving Religion and loving Jesus Christ.

Todd Agnew - My Jesus
From the album Reflection Of Something

Which Jesus do you follow?
Which Jesus do you serve?
If Ephesians says to imitate Christ,
Why do you look so much like the world?

Chorus:
Cause my Jesus bled and died
He spent His time with thieves and liars
He loved the poor and accosted the arrogant
So which one do you want to be?

Blessed are the poor in spirit, do we pray to be blessed with the
Wealth of this land
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness
Do we ache for another taste of this world of shifting sand

Chorus:

And who is this that you follow
This picture of the American dream
If Jesus was here would you walk right by on the other side
Or fall down and worship at His holy feet

Pretty blue eyes, curly brown hair and a clear complexion
Is how you see Him as He dies for Your sins
But the Word says He was battered and scarred
Or did you miss that part
Sometimes I doubt we’d recognize Him

Chorus:

Cause my Jesus would never be accepted in my church
The blood and dirt on His feet might stain the carpet
But He reached for the hurting and despises the proud
I think He’d prefer Beal St. to the stained glass crowd
But I know that He can hear me if I cry out loud

I want to be like my Jesus
Can I be like You
I want to be like my Jesus

beSteelmyheart
05-04-2006, 05:30 PM
In case anyone missed it, when I say "Religion of Peace", I'm being sarcastic as Hell and refering to Islam.

Here is an interesting website about Islam..
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
The author was featured on a morning radio show down here a few years ago & sparked my interest. His book, "Tea with Terrorists" had some interesting parts, too, but I could have done without the love story that he wove into it. Not sure if he is biased or not, but he's obviously done his research.