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mesaSteeler
01-25-2011, 07:58 PM
Do you believe Roethlisberger is a new man? I do
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14598983/new-improved-big-ben-might-not-deserve-vitriol-coming-his-way
By Gregg Doyel
CBSSports.com Senior Writer
Jan. 25, 2011Tell Gregg your opinion!

They're watching. They're reading. And they're going to remember. Who am I talking about? I'm talking about you -- because you're watching. You're reading. And you're going to remember how the media treated Ben Roethlisberger in the 12 days between now and the Super Bowl.

The pressure is enormous, and I'm talking about the pressure on me and people like me -- people in the media, those who will frame the pregame discussion of this Super Bowl in general, and that Pittsburgh quarterback in particular.

I know what you want. Lots of you, anyway. Lots of you want Roethlisberger to pay, in the currency of rehashed media outrage over the next 12 days, for crimes you don't know he committed. I can feel it. I feel it from sports readers, and I feel it from sports writers. Seeing how I'm a member of both camps, it feels very much like peer pressure.

And I hate peer pressure.

Don't ever tell me what to think.:applaudit::applaudit:

And don't tell me to hate Ben Roethlisberger, because I can't. Not this Ben Roethlisberger. I like this one, and if you didn't know about his past, you'd like him too. He doesn't act like a superstar jock, cooler and more important than you. That used to be him, yes, but not anymore. I've spent several Sundays in the Steelers' locker room this season, but I can't give you a ton of anecdotal evidence of Roethlisberger's regular-guy vibe. By definition a regular guy is unremarkable, and that's how he now acts. Unremarkably.

Once the cliché of the hard-partying jock -- Internet photos of Roethlisberger, drunk and flanked by women, are legion -- he reportedly got engaged recently.

Roethlisberger's teammates say he is no longer aloof with them, no longer carrying himself as the sun, around whom the franchise should revolve.

"He's one of the guys now," says receiver Hines Ward.

Around town, folks are noticing. Pittsburgh isn't Los Angeles, to name one star-struck city. Image isn't everything in Pittsburgh. Decency matters, and for months the city was fed up with Roethlisberger. He helped win two Super Bowls, but a large, loud portion of the fan base wanted him released after NFL commissioner Roger Goodell found Roethlisberger in violation of the league's personal conduct policy in April and suspended him for six games, later reduced to four.

That faction still exists, I'm sure, but it's smaller. Quieter. You don't win over Pittsburghers with phoniness. You win them over with sincerity, and Roethlisberger is doing it.

"I was surprised," Ray Skoff, 41, a Steelers season-ticket holder for two decades, told a Pittsburgh reporter last week. "Behavior and attitude-wise, I believe he's done a total 180, how he presents himself on and off the field. It seems totally different."

Here's one anecdote. It's small, but small stuff is sincere. This was Sunday, after Pittsburgh had beaten the Jets in the AFC Championship Game, and Roethlisberger was walking from his locker to the shower. Halfway there he realized he was about to collide with a TV guy -- a cameraman, not an anchor. This TV guy wasn't a name. Wasn't a star. He was, in the grand scheme of things, nobody. He was certainly nobody to Roethlisberger, but Roethlisberger stopped and motioned for the man to walk first.

"Please," Roethlisberger said, gesturing with his hand.

That moment in time might not impress lots of you, but that's OK. Lots of you carry your own baggage about what Roethlisberger did, or didn't do, on March 5, 2010 in Milledgeville, Ga. And I say that with no disrespect to you. We all have baggage, and some of mine involves animal abuse. I own three dogs, love them more than I can say, and when Michael Vick was found guilty of killing dogs I hated him. Couldn't forgive him. My baggage wouldn't let me.

But then a small thing happened with Vick. A mutual acquaintance, a sportswriter at another website, was talking to Vick before last season. The sportswriter doesn't have children, but he and his wife offer dog-rescue services from their house. They take in abandoned or abused dogs, nurse them to health, prepare them to be adopted. Vick heard about it and offered a donation, but he wanted it kept private. This wasn't for show. This was personal.

That's small, but it's big. Vick and Roethlisberger have something in common, in that both quarterbacks are on their last legs with the public. Society is sick of Vick, and it's sick of Roethlisberger. Both know it, and both have responded well. Neither can undo the past, or even demonstrate that they're worthy of this second chance. But they're trying.

There are huge differences between Vick and Roethlisberger. One's crime was against animals. Another's was said to be against women. Vick was charged, tried and found guilty. Roethlisberger wasn't found guilty, or even charged. Does that prove he's innocent? No. Of course not. But it means that we don't know -- it means you don't know -- what happened between Roethlisberger and that woman in Nevada in 2008, or between Roethlisberger and that woman in Georgia in March.

No matter. Lots of people have decided in their heart that Roethlisberger is guilty, and there is no appealing that sentence. You should have seen my incoming Twitter feed Sunday night. Here are three sneering Tweets people sent me within five minutes of the final whistle, the first two from readers, the third from a writer:

9:52 p.m. The odds of a girl being raped in Pitt 2nite just went up.

9:55 p.m. Wow, emotional Ben, on his knees, thinking about all the girls in Dallas he's going to molest.

9:56 p.m. By the time Super Bowl XLV hype is done, and the Big Ben redemption stories have been told, we'll all be confusing him with Tim Tebow.

That's a sliver of what's out there. That's what people are thinking, and saying. And now they're reading, watching. They'll remember which of us were naughty to Roethlisberger, and which of us were nice.

What I'll tell you is this: I don't know what crimes Roethlisberger has committed or not committed against women, and I don't know what he's capable of doing. I'm not saying he's innocent. I'm saying I don't know.

But I do know what I've seen from Roethlisberger since he returned from his suspension. And it's been pretty damn impressive.

(Lots of you want Roethlisberger to pay, in the currency of rehashed media outrage over the next 12 days, for crimes you don't know he committed. Including some of the newbie Trolls that are polluting this board with their stench. - mesa)

steeltheone
01-25-2011, 08:05 PM
It has to be a work in progress. Nobody changes overnight. Its a daily struggle between right and wrong.

FanSince72
01-25-2011, 08:15 PM
By all accounts, most importantly those from his teammates and from the beat writers, Ben has undergone a 180 degree change and in the words of Ron Cook, is "Now a joy to talk to".

I think Ben is trying real hard, he's surrounded himself with people who care and he seems to be listening to them. His interviews rarely include the word "I" and he goes out of his way to praise those around him. From what I've heard, he no longer travels with an entourage or with bodyguards and he's traded in the night life for a simpler existence.

I think he's serious and I think he's grateful for the second chance and I'm pulling for him 110%. But as for whether or not he's a changed man, it's simply too soon to tell. Merrill Hoge put it well when he said that if Ben wins this SB, his biggest test will be what he does afterward -- after he's officially "part of the conversation" when talking about elite or HOF QB's.

It's easy to toe the line when there are cameras and microphones everywhere and most of your time is spent in public. But there's an old saying that says: "The true test of a man's character is not what he does while everyone's watching, it's what he does when no one's watching."

I think Ben's on the right track, but I wouldn't declare anything "changed" until I've seen what he's done after the lights are turned off, the media goes away - and no one's watching.

But if I had to bet on it, I think the smart money would be on Ben. :thmbup:

OX1947
01-25-2011, 08:20 PM
I still read the occasional "Kobe is a rapist" comments every now and then. Especially the last two June's when he won titles. It will never go away. People are judgmental, hypocritical, pathetic gas bags.

Regular folk LOVE when famous rich people are accused of stuff. It makes them feel better about themselves. Ben is no different then any other single, horny athlete who has millions and is famous. The only difference is he banged chicks who accuse him of rape a year later and another who was supposedly raped yet they didn't have intercourse. I can not for the life of me understand what kind of pathetic lousy judicial system this is when they allow people to accuse others of things and have zero proof or and legs. If you are raped, rape can be checked immediately and it will prove who ever did it, did it.

Deserei90
01-25-2011, 08:20 PM
I believe he's trying very hard to earn people's respect back. As time moves on, He'll eventually become a new man.

zulater
01-25-2011, 08:30 PM
I still read the occasional "Kobe is a rapist" comments every now and then. Especially the last two June's when he won titles. It will never go away. People are judgmental, hypocritical, pathetic gas bags.

Regular folk LOVE when famous rich people are accused of stuff. It makes them feel better about themselves. Ben is no different then any other single, horny athlete who has millions and is famous. The only difference is he banged chicks who accuse him of rape a year later and another who was supposedly raped yet they didn't have intercourse. I can not for the life of me understand what kind of pathetic lousy judicial system this is when they allow people to accuse others of things and have zero proof or and legs. If you are raped, rape can be checked immediately and it will prove who ever did it, did it.

Good post!

I'd wager a guess that many of the people who judge Ben the harshest have more skeletons in their closet than the Munsters and Adams family combined.

Atlanta Dan
01-25-2011, 08:33 PM
I read that article earlier this evening and was planning to post it - good find:thumbsup:

I wonder if Roethlisberger should print out his responses to all the questions he is going to get on this next Tuesday on media day on one of those laminated cards you see the O-coordinators with on the sidelines. Or maybe he should print his answers on one of those oversized wristbands he wears on the field with the plays

It is going to be an interesting media day with Ben in the main ring - I am glad this is not his first trip to the Big Dance and he has some idea what awaits him with regard to the media circus

SeinfeldNut
01-25-2011, 09:52 PM
I think he has taken steps to improve himself as a person. Now like many have said on here, its a work in progress and no one changes to a new person overnight, it takes many week, months, even years to achieve being a new person. I hope Ben continues the path that he is on, eventually I think he will win back some of the people who begrudge him now.

gbpacker40
01-25-2011, 09:58 PM
Love the Steelers, cant stand Ben. My opinion on him doesnt matter but, if Ray Lewis can change his persona than so can Ben.

pittsurghsteelers4life
01-26-2011, 04:40 AM
Ben is good he have change....any time u put God in front of your speach U R a change Man in my eyes....when they beat the Jets & they talk to him the first thing that came out of his mouth was GOD IS GOOD.......THAT tells me that he s a change Man........do your thing Ben & do worry about the ASSHOKE that's trying to put u down......

jjpro11
01-26-2011, 06:47 AM
he's always gonna catch shit for those incidents, regardless of what actually happened.. the reality is there is no other way to knock the guy. he's too good of a player and he's the toughest QB in the league.. before the rape accusations, people ragged on him for the motorcycle accident.. it wasn't even his fault, but people were still just looking for anything to talk shit.

chacha
01-26-2011, 06:50 AM
I didnt think he was bad before so he's fine with me now too. People are always gonna say crap, it''s juvenile but that's the way of the world I guess

plenewken
01-26-2011, 07:16 AM
he's always gonna catch shit for those incidents, regardless of what actually happened.. the reality is there is no other way to knock the guy. he's too good of a player and he's the toughest QB in the league.. before the rape accusations, people ragged on him for the motorcycle accident.. it wasn't even his fault, but people were still just looking for anything to talk shit.

What do you mean it wasn't his fault? He was driving a motorcycle without a license and without a helmet. Who's fault was it?

pete74
01-26-2011, 07:25 AM
we will find out this offseason. hopefully he stays away from the college bars now that he is engaged

pghfrank62
01-26-2011, 07:56 AM
To hell with Ben being a new man, I want the same Ben, a Winner, 15-1 rookie season, never ever going to be touched, went to 2 Dances, 2 Rings, going to a third Dance best guess 3rd ring Period!!!!!

DrunkFlea
01-26-2011, 08:10 AM
What do you mean it wasn't his fault? He was driving a motorcycle without a license and without a helmet. Who's fault was it?

Ben had a license. It's also legal to ride a bike in PA without a helmet.

It's not legal however to make left turns in front of people which is what the person who hit him did. Yes, Ben is responsible for his own actions, but that's different than the accident being his fault.

Curtain_of_Steel
01-26-2011, 08:39 AM
I'm curious for those who say its a work in progress?

What exactly do YOU expect to see? considering you have limited at best access to what Ben does and a purely directional view from the media of what THEY want you to read?

1) was purely a set up by the Tahoe chick who was spurned because she wanted to trap ben, her text message pretty much showed her motive.

2) The georgia girl? who knows what occurred. The only thing you do know for a 100% fact, is Ben was not charged. which means NO evidence to show he was guilty.

So the guy was dick, and put himself in 1 bad position.

Again, based on everyone current report, teammates, media, freinds, steelers coaches etc. What more do you expect to see or need to see?

Hopefully he takes zero questions on the topic, because he has answered them, and was falsely suspended and served his time. I dont see Vick answering these questions everyday, and he DID KILL many many animals, and that felon just got a new endorsement deal.

FanSince72
01-26-2011, 08:57 AM
I'm curious for those who say its a work in progress?

What exactly do YOU expect to see? considering you have limited at best access to what Ben does and a purely directional view from the media of what THEY want you to read?...

Like I've said before, SOMETHING Happened in Milledgeville and I'm a big believer in "Where there's smoke, there's fire".

The bottom line is that whether Ben is guilty of sexual assault or just guilty of being an idiot for getting himself into these jackpots, he brought unwanted attention to the league, to his team and to the Rooney family.

By all accounts - even those of his teammates, Ben was behaving like an arrogant, spoiled brat and for a while he lost the locker room and many fans as well.

So whatever really happened, Ben was due for an overhaul anyway and he seems to have realized that even though what he did in the past may not have brought criminal charges, it did cast him in a bad light and created a bad vibe around him and his team.

I think it's good that he's realized this and taken steps to rectify the situation even if it's just because others think something needed to change. He's been very open about needing to change (which is an admission of a less-than-perfect situation in itself) and he's not playing any "blame game" or saying that people have him all wrong.

He's simply recognized that whatever he WAS doing was hurting people and that he needed to make some changes. Whether he continues on his current path or backslides at some point remains to be seen. But I give him credit for owning up to behaving like a dick (at the very least) and recognizing that whether he did or didn't do something wrong wasn't the point and that the point was that his behavior was causing problems.

So the "work in progress" is to become a better person and teammate simply because he was less than that in the past. So even if he's only doing it because of what people think instead of what really happened, if he becomes a better person than he was before, what harm is there in that?

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 09:01 AM
Ben had a license. It's also legal to ride a bike in PA without a helmet.

It's not legal however to make left turns in front of people which is what the person who hit him did. Yes, Ben is responsible for his own actions, but that's different than the accident being his fault.

He did not have a license. He only had a temporary permit, that he got when he moved to Pittsburgh, that had expired in March (the accident happened in June).

A law enforcement source close to the investigation of Monday's crash told Team 4 investigator Jim Parsons that Ben Roethlisberger does have a valid driver's license, but his motorcycle learner's permit is expired.

Him riding without a helmet was also illegal.

When asked why he doesn't wear a helmet, Roethlisberger replied, "Because you don't have to, it's not the law. If it was the law, I'd definitely have one on every time I rode. But it's not the law so (I?) know I don't have to."

But here's what the law says: Motorcycle operators can only ride without a helmet if they have two years of riding experience -- Roethlisberger does not -- or if they have completed an approved motorcycle safety course.
Team 4 doesn't know whether Roethlisberger completed a Pennsylvania Department of Transportation-approved motorcycle safety course because PennDOT won't tell Team 4.

But typically, completing a course would lead to a motorcycle license, and our source said Roethlisberger didn't have one of those -- he was still operating on a permit, an expired one.

http://www.wtae.com/news/9364467/detail.html

Yes, the cause of the accident was not his fault...he should have been on the road legally though.

That's all well in the past though. People make mistakes (I had my license taken away for some stupid shit when I was 20, so I'm not one to judge). Hopefully he gets his entire life back on track and keeps it there.

plenewken
01-26-2011, 09:44 AM
Ben had a license. It's also legal to ride a bike in PA without a helmet.

It's not legal however to make left turns in front of people which is what the person who hit him did. Yes, Ben is responsible for his own actions, but that's different than the accident being his fault.

"A law enforcement source close to the investigation of Monday's crash told Team 4 that Roethlisberger had an expired motorcycle learner's permit when his bike slammed into a turning car."


"Pennsylvania law requires any person who operates a motorcycle to wear protective headgear. You are required to wear a helmet. (NOTE: An exemption is available for riders that are at least 21 years of age and have either been licensed to operate a motorcycle for at least 2 years or have completed a motorcycle safety course approved by PennDOT or the Motorcycle Safety Foundation.)"

So Ben was riding a motorcycle without the proper authorization and furthermore, he was supposed to wear a helmet because he didn't have a MC license for at least 2 years.

Edit: Sorry SCMom, I didn't see you had replied before me.

chacha
01-26-2011, 10:03 AM
so if Ben had the helmet and license only then it would have been the lady's fault? It was her fault either way!

plenewken
01-26-2011, 10:12 AM
so if Ben had the helmet and license only then it would have been the lady's fault? It was her fault either way!

You're grasping at straws. She f*cked up and he f*cked up.
I doubt her insurance covered Ben's damage and Ben didn't have insurance because riding without a license or a permit automatically voids any kind of coverage.

chacha
01-26-2011, 10:13 AM
I'm not grasping at straws, she drove into him. If she was a better driver we wouldnt even be discussing this. And you have no idea if her insurance paid or not so you're just assuming.

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 10:20 AM
I'm not grasping at straws, she drove into him. If she was a better driver we wouldnt even be discussing this. And you have no idea if her insurance paid or not so you're just assuming.

He wasn't on the road legally....meaning, he shouldn't have been on the road (on a motorcycle). If he had followed the law and not been out riding around illegally, we wouldn't even be discussing this. :noidea:

Look at it this way. Let's pretend you're driving around without a license. You get in an accident, and it really is the other guys fault. The cops show up. You don't have a license (or insurance) and the other guy does. Who do you think is getting in bigger trouble?

chacha
01-26-2011, 10:22 AM
He wasn't on the road legally....meaning, he shouldn't have been on the road. If he had followed the law and not been out riding around illegally, we wouldn't even be discussing this. :noidea:

Look at it this way. Let's pretend you're driving around without a license. You get in an accident, and it really is the other guys fault. The cops show up. You don't have a license and the other guy does. Who do you think is getting in bigger trouble?


that's all I'm talking about, it was her fault. I'm not saying he should have had a helmet etc, but she was the one who caused the accident, not Ben.

plenewken
01-26-2011, 10:24 AM
I'm not grasping at straws, she drove into him. If she was a better driver we wouldnt even be discussing this. And you have no idea if her insurance paid or not so you're just assuming.

OK. He's a saint, she's a beyotch and I hope she rots in jail, how that sounds?:rofl:

chacha
01-26-2011, 10:27 AM
that sounds just about right! :hatsoff:

:chuckle:

plenewken
01-26-2011, 10:28 AM
that sounds just about right! :hatsoff:

I knew you'd prefer this version. :wave:

chacha
01-26-2011, 10:29 AM
you are assuming correctly this time sir! :toofunny:

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 10:32 AM
The Steelers quarterback will be issued citations for those two offenses, which carry fines and costs of $106.50 to $281.50 each. The police investigation of Roethlisberger's collision with an automobile on June 12 determined that he did not have a valid motorcycle permit; if and when he receives one, it will be subject to a suspension to be determined by the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation.

The driver of the car into which Roethlisberger crashed, previously identified as 62-year-old Martha Fleishman, will be cited for failure to yield to oncoming traffic. She faces a $106.50 fine. Police said Fleishman has complained of receiving harrassing phone calls and has filed a report; an investigation is ongoing.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/steelers/2006-06-19-roethlisberger-accident_x.htm?POE=SPOISVA

To no surprise, Ben was cited more than the woman driving the car. And he got off easy IMO (most likely because of who he is and because he went to the hospital).


P.S. If you read my original post on the previous page, I clearly state that the cause of the accident was the lady's fault, but that Ben shouldn't have been on the road, on a motorcycle, to begin with.

DrunkFlea
01-26-2011, 10:36 AM
so if Ben had the helmet and license only then it would have been the lady's fault? It was her fault either way!


Sometimes people are so intent on proving a point they fail to see the logic of the conversation. Niether his outdated permit or lack of helmet caused the accident. Channel 4 went digging hard for that story. I loved this part - "Team 4 doesn't know whether Roethlisberger completed a Pennsylvania Department of Transportation-approved motorcycle safety course because PennDOT won't tell Team 4." Funny how you read through everything else before getting to that little point. Speculation doesn't matter when the lemmings have already been brainwashed.

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 10:39 AM
Ben had a license. It's also legal to ride a bike in PA without a helmet.

He did not have a license. He only had a temporary permit, that he got when he moved to Pittsburgh, that had expired in March (the accident happened in June).

Him riding without a helmet was also illegal.

Yes, the cause of the accident was not his fault...he should have been on the road legally though.

Apparently, reading comprehension isn't for everyone. :noidea:

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 10:41 AM
I loved this part - "Team 4 doesn't know whether Roethlisberger completed a Pennsylvania Department of Transportation-approved motorcycle safety course because PennDOT won't tell Team 4." Funny how you read through everything else before getting to that little point. Speculation doesn't matter when the lemmings have already been brainwashed.

he was still operating on a permit, an expired one.

:doh:

Ok, we're brainwashed. At least we can read though. :chuckle:

You should go find out if it's legal to ride without a helmet in PA when you don't even have a valid permit. :chuckle:

Get back to us on that...quick!

FanSince72
01-26-2011, 10:48 AM
OK now my brain hurts.

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 10:53 AM
OK now my brain hurts.

Mine too. I should have included this in my post though (from a link I already provided).

Ben Roethlisberger faces fines of $388 for not having a valid motorcycle license and for not wearing a helmet during a collision a week ago in downtown Pittsburgh, police said Monday.

I'm pretty sure that means he was supposed to be wearing a helmet. :chuckle:

I know you didn't argue that with me FS72...just had to point that out, since I've been brainwashed and all. :chuckle:

vasteeler
01-26-2011, 10:55 AM
I'm curious for those who say its a work in progress?

What exactly do YOU expect to see? considering you have limited at best access to what Ben does and a purely directional view from the media of what THEY want you to read?

1) was purely a set up by the Tahoe chick who was spurned because she wanted to trap ben, her text message pretty much showed her motive.

2) The georgia girl? who knows what occurred. The only thing you do know for a 100% fact, is Ben was not charged. which means NO evidence to show he was guilty.

So the guy was dick, and put himself in 1 bad position.

Again, based on everyone current report, teammates, media, freinds, steelers coaches etc. What more do you expect to see or need to see?

Hopefully he takes zero questions on the topic, because he has answered them, and was falsely suspended and served his time. I dont see Vick answering these questions everyday, and he DID KILL many many animals, and that felon just got a new endorsement deal.



QFT :thumbsup:

zulater
01-26-2011, 11:18 AM
He wasn't on the road legally....meaning, he shouldn't have been on the road (on a motorcycle). If he had followed the law and not been out riding around illegally, we wouldn't even be discussing this. :noidea:

Look at it this way. Let's pretend you're driving around without a license. You get in an accident, and it really is the other guys fault. The cops show up. You don't have a license (or insurance) and the other guy does. Who do you think is getting in bigger trouble?

Jeezus, there's about 50 current NFL players that have at least one DUI to their credit. But we ignore them and berate Ben for operating a motor vehicle in a legal and safe manner, perfectly sober at the time. By all standards legal and otherwise the victim of someone else's poor driving decision, and to top it all off 5 years ago! :banging:

zulater
01-26-2011, 11:21 AM
What do you mean it wasn't his fault? He was driving a motorcycle without a license and without a helmet. Who's fault was it?

I guess you would have us ticket Donte Stallworth's victim for jaywalking then?

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 11:37 AM
Jeezus, there's about 50 current NFL players that have at least one DUI to their credit. But we ignore them and berate Ben for operating a motor vehicle in a legal and safe manner, perfectly sober at the time. By all standards legal and otherwise the victim of someone else's poor driving decision, and to top it all off 5 years ago! :banging:

Nobody was ignoring them. This thread isn't about 50 other current NFL players or DUI's. :noidea:

DrunkFlea made a false statement. That's all.

I also wasn't "berating" Ben. If you read through the thread you would have noticed I said the accident wasn't his fault, and that I've had my license suspended as well in the past, so I'm not one to judge.

I was just merely stating a fact. He wasn't on the road legally. You guys are making too big of a deal out of this lol.

operating a motor vehicle in a legal and safe manner

So the police gave him 2 citations for operating a motor vehicle in a legal and safe manner?

Ok....

:banging:

DrunkFlea
01-26-2011, 11:43 AM
Just like I said earlier - Sometimes people are so intent on proving a point they fail to see the logic of the conversation.

The point was that Ben took a lot of heat over the accident and still carries himself with a smile. The technicalities he broke were irrelavant to the accident itself, yet that's all you here. I can't help but feel a lot of how Ben is portayed is rooted in how he's snubbed the media. Its their way of getting revenge and the public eats it up. He was crucified as a rapist before the law enforcement even made a statement - remember??

zulater
01-26-2011, 11:45 AM
Nobody was ignoring them. This thread isn't about 50 other current NFL players or DUI's. :noidea:

DrunkFlea made a false statement. That's all.

I also wasn't "berating" Ben. If you read through the thread you would have noticed I said the accident wasn't his fault, and that I've had my license suspended as well in the past, so I'm not one to judge.

I was just merely stating a fact. He wasn't on the road legally. You guys are making too big of a deal out of this lol.



So the police gave him 2 citations for operating a motor vehicle in a legal and safe manner?

Ok....

:banging:

No they gave him two citations because he was famous and they had to because of his celibrity. I was pulled over in Ocala Fla for a similiar violation 10 years ago and was merely told "take care of it son."

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 11:50 AM
No they gave him two citations because he was famous and they had to because of his celibrity. I was pulled over in Ocala Fla for a similiar violation 10 years ago and was merely told "take care of it son."

Uhhh....ok. So that equals he was operating the motorcycle in a legal manner then?

Listen, you can argue all day about it...he obviously wasn't. I'm not judging him for it, cause I've done a ton of stupid shit....and what one officer does doesn't mean ALL officers in every state will do that. You are comparing apples to oranges when you bring up what an officer did 10 years ago in a completely different state.

I've been pulled over with an expired license and no insurance and got my license suspended. I'm no celebrity. :noidea:

You're not proving your point by saying just because 10 years ago some cop in Florida let you off the hook that it equals Ben was operating his motorcycle legally.

Damn you guys are getting really defensive over someone pointing out a known fact lol.

MikeHaullace
01-26-2011, 11:52 AM
And to think this thread was about his character. Now you people are going back and forth about his accident.

Sheesh. Stay on topic.

Do I think he is changed? No. Do I think he is making his best effort to change for the better? Yes.

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 11:53 AM
Just like I said earlier - Sometimes people are so intent on proving a point they fail to see the logic of the conversation.

The point was that Ben took a lot of heat over the accident and still carries himself with a smile. The technicalities he broke were irrelavant to the accident itself, yet that's all you here. I can't help but feel a lot of how Ben is portayed is rooted in how he's snubbed the media. Its their way of getting revenge and the public eats it up. He was crucified as a rapist before the law enforcement even made a statement - remember??

I was just correcting a false statement you made. I was never putting the heat on Ben for the actual accident. It was the lady's fault...but he still wasn't on the road legally (as you tried to say he was).

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 11:54 AM
And to think this thread was about his character. Now you people are going back and forth about his accident.

Sheesh. Stay on topic.

Do I think he is changed? No. Do I think he is making his best effort to change for the better? Yes.

Quit trying to stifle creative thought and discussion. :chuckle:

MikeHaullace
01-26-2011, 12:04 PM
Quit trying to stifle creative thought and discussion. :chuckle:

I'm actually trying to stifle 'creative thought and discussion' that was thought and discussed ad nauseam 5 years ago in a thread that it has not relation to. :chuckle: How does his accident then have any bearing on his character now?

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 12:12 PM
I'm actually trying to stifle 'creative thought and discussion' that was thought and discussed ad nauseam 5 years ago in a thread that it has not relation to. :chuckle: How does his accident then have any bearing on his character now?

It doesn't...but it's not my fault people want to argue the fact that he wasn't driving with a legal license or a helmet.

It should have just ended with "Oh I didn't know that". But people always want to make a big stink.

tanda10506
01-26-2011, 12:24 PM
If his teammates say he has then he probably has, and on a personal note for him that's good. Having a really bad attitude could affect the way you play if your team is always pissed off at you. But to me it doesn't matter other then that. I'm an innocent till proven guilty guy. Until Ben is convicted of anything, I don't even think about it. Somebody throwing around alligations doesn't even play a factor in the way I see somebody else. Now if there was CONCLUSIVE evidence and he was convicted, I would want him gone. Until then as long as he and the team get a long good, then I don't care.

zulater
01-26-2011, 12:28 PM
It doesn't...but it's not my fault people want to argue the fact that he wasn't driving with a legal license or a helmet.

It should have just ended with "Oh I didn't know that". But people always want to make a big stink.

Of course I knew it, but to me it's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. It's like jay walking on an unbusy street, rolling through a stop sign, or going 62 in a 55, it's a technicality, it had nothing to do with what actually happened on the street that day. Tell me, if Ben had all his t's crossed and i's dotted that day is he any less ****ed up by that lady failing to observe right away at that moment?

Would his proper permit have jumped out of his pocket and stopped that pick up in it's tracks?

As far as not having a helmet goes, bad decision on Ben's part, but Pa. doesn't mandate it so he's not violating that law either.

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 12:30 PM
Of course I knew it, but to me it's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. It's like jay walking on an unbusy street, rolling through a stop sign, or going 62 in a 55, it's a technicality, it had nothing to do with what actually happened on the street that day. Tell me, if Ben had all his t's crossed and i's dotted that day is he any less ****ed up by that lady failing to observe right away at that moment?

It's inconsequential to me too...I was just correcting someone.

Would his proper permit have jumped out of his pocket and stopped that pick up in it's tracks?

No. That wasn't the point I was trying to make though.

As far as not having a helmet goes, bad decision on Ben's part, but Pa. doesn't mandate it so he's not violating that law either.

Yes they do and yes he did. Read the thread again.

DrunkFlea
01-26-2011, 12:30 PM
I was just correcting a false statement you made. I was never putting the heat on Ben for the actual accident. It was the lady's fault...but he still wasn't on the road legally (as you tried to say he was).

My aplogies for forgetting about his permit that expired the month before.

My point was that the physical cause of the accident itself wasn't his fault. Other than having out of date paperwork, all he did was ride down the road. I've ridden through that same intersection 100x myself and have alsmost had the same happen to me. People drive like morons in this city. If you ask me - the whole thing was blown way out of propotion because we had just won the superbowl, not becuase what Ben did was really that bad.

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 12:35 PM
My aplogies for forgetting about his permit that expired the month before.

My point was that the physical cause of the accident itself wasn't his fault. Other than having out of date paperwork, all he did was ride down the road. I've ridden through that same intersection 100x myself and have alsmost had the same happen to me. People drive like morons in this city. If you ask me - the whole thing was blown way out of propotion because we had just won the superbowl, not becuase what Ben did was really that bad.

Agreed (although it had expired 3 months before).

And I'll always think, with the utmost conviction, that even if he was allowed to ride without a helmet (which he most certainly wasn't...the no helmet permission does have provisions which Ben didn't meet), it was pretty much retarded for him to be riding around without one.

It was a mistake though, and I've made my fair share. I will never judge him personally for making one.

That goes for making mistakes in bars and bathrooms too...which I hope is all the whole Georgia incident was.

plenewken
01-26-2011, 12:39 PM
I don't give a f*ck about Ben's accident either except that it shows the kind of poor judgement he was capable of making.

The guy is a professional player and his f*ck ups impacted his team. He's free to kill himself if he wants but not when he's paid more than 100 million dollars to be the franchise quarterback of one of the top teams in the NFL who invested in him.

He's supposed to stay in shape, work on his skills, represent the Steelers as best as possible and conduct himself in the most efficient and professional manner, both on the field and off the field.

Ben was immature and irresponsible, and he proved it several times in the past. His antics not only damaged his popularity but also damaged the Steelers reputation, disturbed their plans and directly impacted several people's lives.

The Steelers will continue to be the Steelers with or without Ben. No person is bigger than the organization. None.

Has he changed for the better? I hope so, mostly for his employer, his teammates, his family, his fans and the people he comes across on a daily basis. Has he changed for the better for him? I couldn't care less, honestly.

Ben is not the center of my universe. I like him as our QB and that's about it. The Steelers are not the center of my universe either but I'll take the Steelers any day over Ben.

zulater
01-26-2011, 12:46 PM
I think if we knew every sin of every player in the NFL we'd probably find that Ben even at his worst wouldn't even belong in the discussion of the NFL's true bad boys.

MDSteel15
01-26-2011, 12:47 PM
What do you mean it wasn't his fault? He was driving a motorcycle without a license and without a helmet. Who's fault was it?

That was his dumbness but the accident was the woman who ran the lights fault!!

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 12:52 PM
I think if we knew every sin of every player in the NFL we'd probably find that Ben even at his worst wouldn't even belong in the discussion of the NFL bad boys.

We may never know...I still haven't told my Mom all the stupid shit I did when I was younger lol. The things I was caught doing don't even compare to all the things I actually did do. :chuckle:

I agree with plenewken though. The whole accident thing doesn't make him a bad person, it just means he was reckless and careless...a pattern he continued to repeat. I'm sure there's more we don't know about. And no, I don't mean he was reckless and careless with his driving skills, just that it was reckless to be driving around on a sports bike with no valid license or helmet.

Can he change the pattern? Absolutely. Has he? Only time will tell.

I'm hoping for the best with him here, but it's going to take more than words to prove it.

plenewken
01-26-2011, 12:54 PM
That was his dumbness but the accident was the woman who ran the lights fault!!

I'll give you this.
However, one could make a case that riding without a helmet (which was illegal in his case) was aggravating circumstances and he might not have suffered the head injuries he suffered.

By the way, I'm a biker.

Wallace17
01-26-2011, 12:56 PM
Can we all just focus on winning 45?

zulater
01-26-2011, 12:59 PM
I'll give you this.
However, one could make a case that riding without a helmet (which was illegal in his case) was aggravating circumstances and he might not have suffered the head injuries he suffered.

By the way, I'm a biker.

Personally I think that's more an indictment of the state of Pennslyvania than Ben or any other person who chooses to go helmet less. For the life of me I can't figure out how a state can mandate a seat belt law, yet allow bikers to go helmet less?

plenewken
01-26-2011, 01:01 PM
Can we all just focus on winning 45?

I don't think WE have any impact on the outcome of SB 45. Do you? :noidea:

DrunkFlea
01-26-2011, 01:02 PM
My take on ben is he's a regular guy making regular guy mistakes. Problem is he's also a superstar to everyone else so what he does gets magnified.

Had we sucked since Ben got here the bike incident and the girls would be local news only.

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 01:03 PM
Personally I think that's more an indictment of the state of Pennslyvania than Ben or any other person who chooses to go helmet less. For the life of me I can't figure out how a state can mandate a seat belt law, yet allow bikers to go helmet less?

I never agreed with it either.

I had a friend, years ago, who was riding around in nothing but shorts and got in an accident. I don't think I need to explain here why there's a reason many bikers are known for wearing leather gear. :chuckle: I don't think the accident was his fault either, but it was retarded for him to be riding around like that.

I understand the want to feel "free-er" and be "one with the open road" or whatever it is, but personally, I'd rather not be "deader" or eating through a straw for the rest of my life.

Sixburgher
01-26-2011, 01:04 PM
Had we sucked since Ben got here the bike incident and the girls would be local news only.

If that were the case, he'd probably have been sent packing after the Georgia incident, in all honesty. Two rings buys a bit more leniency.

sarahpalinhater
01-26-2011, 01:04 PM
I'll give you this.
However, one could make a case that riding without a helmet (which was illegal in his case) was aggravating circumstances and he might not have suffered the head injuries he suffered.

By the way, I'm a biker.




Ah, hey MENSA, there is no Helmet Law in PA for anyone over the age of 20, so what Ben did was NOT Illegal in any way shape or form!! It was dumb yes, and BEN had to pay the price. But he did NOT break any Laws.


So you might be a motorcycle rider, but you are a misinformed one.

DrunkFlea
01-26-2011, 01:07 PM
If that were the case, he'd probably have been sent packing after the Georgia incident, in all honesty. Two rings buys a bit more leniency.

Kinda a shame you feel that way since he wasn't charged with a crime. :noidea:

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 01:08 PM
Ah, hey MENSA, there is no Helmet Law in PA for anyone over the age of 20, so what Ben did was NOT Illegal in any way shape or form!! It was dumb yes, and BEN had to pay the price. But he did NOT break any Laws.


So you might be a motorcycle rider, but you are a misinformed one.

Are you stupid?

Did you even read the thread? I bet you don't even live in PA...and if you do you are extremely ill informed of the laws here.

"Pennsylvania law requires any person who operates a motorcycle to wear protective headgear. You are required to wear a helmet. (NOTE: An exemption is available for riders that are at least 21 years of age and have either been licensed to operate a motorcycle for at least 2 years or have completed a motorcycle safety course approved by PennDOT or the Motorcycle Safety Foundation.)"

Ben Roethlisberger faces fines of $388 for not having a valid motorcycle license and for not wearing a helmet during a collision a week ago in downtown Pittsburgh, police said Monday.

Think before you type, MENSA. :doh:

If you didn't have such a hard on for Ben, I'd swear you were DownByLaw returned. That was his favorite saying.

*Edit* Just looked...you live in Cali. Thanks for trying to school us on PA law though.

Sixburgher
01-26-2011, 01:09 PM
Kinda a shame you feel that way since he wasn't charged with a crime. :noidea:

Not saying it would have been fair, but knowing a little about how the Rooneys operate, that is probably what would have happened. After all, there was a rumor that they dangled him as trade bait late last Spring, despite the two rings.

plenewken
01-26-2011, 01:11 PM
My take on ben is he's a regular guy making regular guy mistakes. Problem is he's also a superstar to everyone else so what he does gets magnified.

Had we sucked since Ben got here the bike incident and the girls would be local news only.

Superstars are paid to act like superstars, not like Joe Schmuck.

Had we sucked since Ben got here, the bike and girls would have made the local news somewhere else, you can take that to the bank. (see Santonio and Reed).

plenewken
01-26-2011, 01:13 PM
Are you stupid?

Did you even read the thread? I bet you don't even live in PA...and if you do you are extremely ill informed of the laws here.





Think before you type, MENSA. :doh:

If you didn't have such a hard on for Ben, I'd swear you were DownByLaw returned. That was his favorite saying.

*Edit* Just looked...you live in Cali. Thanks for trying to school us on PA law though.

I put him on Ignore last week. Could you please tell him to f*ck off for me? lol

zulater
01-26-2011, 01:14 PM
Superstars are paid to act like superstars, not like Joe Schmuck.

Had we sucked since Ben got here, the bike and girls would have made the local news somewhere else, you can take that to the bank. (see Santonio and Reed).

No they're paid to play like superstars! No game = no job, no matter how good a boy you are off the field!

plenewken
01-26-2011, 01:18 PM
No they're paid to play like superstars! No game = no job, no matter how good a boy you are off the field!

If you play well and you act like a jerk off the field, you're out too. (Santonio).

zulater
01-26-2011, 01:23 PM
If you play good and you act like a jerk off the field, you're out too. (Santonio).

He was also reportedly inattentive at meetings, his contract was on his last year, and they had Mike Wallace waiting in the wings. If Maurkice Pouncey had those same off field issues ( God forbid) he'd be afforded another chance.

DrunkFlea
01-26-2011, 01:23 PM
They didn't get rid of Reed until he started missing field goals and tackles.

zulater
01-26-2011, 01:25 PM
They didn't get rid of Reed until he started missing field goals and tackles.

Yep, in fact they put the franchise tag on him last offseason.

sarahpalinhater
01-26-2011, 01:25 PM
Are you stupid?

Did you even read the thread? I bet you don't even live in PA...and if you do you are extremely ill informed of the laws here.





Think before you type, MENSA. :doh:

If you didn't have such a hard on for Ben, I'd swear you were DownByLaw returned. That was his favorite saying.

*Edit* Just looked...you live in Cali. Thanks for trying to school us on PA law though.




Mom, and if you would have looked into it further you would also see that there was no fine given to Ben. One because PA DOT has a 2 year excemption on that Safety class for PA residents. And Ben was still under that guideline. Also Ben didn;t have a License ON HIM, but did have a legal license.

Just sayin. Doesn't take away that it was dumb to ride without one though. But it also doesn't take away the FACT that now BOTH of the Rape accusations have now been proven Bogus. In fact, Bogus is the exact word used by the lead GBI Investigator in his report to the GA District Attorney. Maybe you should go to their website and actually read the report. Let alone the reports of the Nevada civil case.

zulater
01-26-2011, 01:32 PM
By the way, I do think Ben has turned his personal life around. That seems to be the opinion of his teammates and those closest to him, so I'll take their word for it. And assuming it's true I'm glad of it. While I never bought into the Ben the gangsta or total a-hole persona that's been portrayed throughout the media, I do think he needed to make some personal adjustments to his lifestyle.

SteelCityMom
01-26-2011, 01:39 PM
Mom, and if you would have looked into it further you would also see that there was no fine given to Ben. One because PA DOT has a 2 year excemption on that Safety class for PA residents. And Ben was still under that guideline. Also Ben didn;t have a License ON HIM, but did have a legal license.

Ummm....no. I'll post it again since you didn't understand it the first time.

NOTE: An exemption is available for riders that are at least 21 years of age and have either been licensed to operate a motorcycle for at least 2 years or have completed a motorcycle safety course approved by PennDOT or the Motorcycle Safety Foundation

That means you have to do one of two things:

A) Have a valid motorcycle license for AT LEAST two years
B) Have completed the required motorcycle safety coarse

Ben Roethlisberger faces fines of $388 for not having a valid motorcycle license and for not wearing a helmet during a collision a week ago in downtown Pittsburgh, police said Monday.

The police investigation of Roethlisberger's collision with an automobile on June 12 determined that he did not have a valid motorcycle permit; if and when he receives one, it will be subject to a suspension to be determined by the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation.

Are you really trying to say that they didn't give him a fine, when it clearly states that they gave him, not one, but two fines? :doh:

To obtain a motorcycle license in Pennsylvania, riders must first get a learner's permit, which requires a $10 fee, a vision screening and a written test. The permit is valid for one year, during which a road test must be passed to obtain a full motorcycle license. Only after two years of possessing a valid license is riding without a helmet allowed; that restriction is waived if the rider takes an approved safety course. (*Edited for clarification* You still have to have a valid license (not permit) for the safety course to apply. Taking the course only means you don't have to wait the two years you would normally have to wait after getting a valid license (not permit).)

Roethlisberger had made a point of not wearing a helmet, which is not required in Pennsylvania of riders with two years or more of riding experience. Even discussions with Steelers coach Bill Cowher and the impassioned urgings of Hall of Famer Terry Bradshaw failed to move him into the appropriate safety gear or off the bike.

Roethlisberger told USA TODAY last August that there's "a risk in everything you do" and that he would not wear a helmet because "I don't want to."

To get a motorcycle license, Roethlisberger would have to apply for a learner's permit, undergo a vision screening and take a written test. The permit is good for a year, and the rider must in that time pass a road test to get a license.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/steelers/2006-06-19-roethlisberger-accident_x.htm?POE=SPOISVA

According to the Ohio Department of Public Safety, his license was transferred to Pennsylvania in October 2004.

In Ohio, his license did not have a motorcycle endorsement; a source inside the Steelers' organization told Team 4 that Roethlisberger got his Pennsylvania motorcycle learner's permit in March 2005. It was valid for one year. (that means in June of 2006 it was 3 months expired)

http://www.wtae.com/news/9364467/detail.html

I'm not sure how it gets more cut and dry than that. If you can find an article or something that states otherwise, I'd love to read it. Until then, arguing this is pointless and stupid.

Seriously though, this is extremely easy information to find. I'm embarrassed that it's having to be argued and spelled out to this extent.

sarahpalinhater
01-26-2011, 01:41 PM
By the way, I do think Ben has turned his personal life around. That seems to be the opinion of his teammates and those closest to him, so I'll take their word for it. And assuming it's true I'm glad of it. While I never bought into the Ben the gangsta or total a-hole persona that's been portrayed throughout the media, I do think he needed to make some personal adjustments to his lifestyle.




THIS post I agree 100 % with. As a Ben supporter on his two sexual assault claims, I will defend him cause both have basically been proven false. But that does not excuse Ben's Immature acts as trying to have sex in a public place, even if it was agreed upon. And even though Ben escaped serious Injury, his riding a Motorcycle without a Helmet was stupid. But the same can be said of alot of 24 year olds. I think Ben did get a Big Ego some what after his success. But I never believed all the accounts coming from people in Pittsburgh well after the fact saying Ben was this way..Ben never paid for his dinner bills, ect. Cause that was a load of BS! Just people looking to get their names in the paper. But I think Ben knows what was taken away from him this season, right or wrongly by Goodell.


And I think he is a better, more Mature person for it.

plenewken
01-26-2011, 02:02 PM
This is for Mr. Know It All from CA.

Mark Baranowski, owner of the popular Cabana Bar in Pittsburgh, says that when the quarterback first came in with a group of hangers-on a few years ago, he refused to pay the $5 cover and used a variation on the Do you know who I am? line to intimidate an employee at the door. At a party Roethlisberger held at the Cabana Bar on the occasion of the one-year anniversary of his motorcycle accident, Baranowski got upset that Roethlisberger’s posse rounded up women to come to his VIP area while intimidating customers into deleting cellphone photos of the QB. (His bodyguards allegedly did the same things in Milledgeville, GA.) Roethlisberger agreed to sign a few items, for which he was going to receive free drinks, but Baranowski says he did it sloppily and halfheartedly. The fed-up owner decided Roethlisberger had to pay the cover from then on, which prompted a call from a Steelers security man who wanted to know why the quarterback was banned. Baranowski, through an intermediary, told the staffer Roethlisberger wasn’t banned but added, “Tell him he’s an arrogant a------, and every Steeler can get in without a cover except him.” Roethlisberger has not been back to the Cabana Bar.

zulater
01-26-2011, 02:02 PM
I do think many of the Ben about town stories were true from the perspective of the teller's but not neccessarily fair to Ben or understanding of his perspective. For example if you went to dinner and strangers reguarly came up and interrupted you, you'd probably treat them like shit too. And to me any person over the age of 16 asking for an autograph in a public setting is a douche and deserves to be treated rudely. Also if by my very presense your bar trade improves 400% over it's norm, perhaps I'm not really an ass expecting not to have to pay a 5 dollar cover charge?

To the best of my knowledge Ben didn't hang around with thugs ( see Pac Man Jones) didn't get into bar fights ( see Vince Young), didn't commit adultery ( see 90% of the married players in the league :chuckle:) didn't do drugs ( see Stonio), didn't beat up woman, ( see James Harrison), didn't gamble and or run out on huge Casino tabs ( see charles Barkley) didn't cheat business partners ( Hines Ward), didn't stiff contracters who worked on his house ( Plaxico) wasn't a homewrecker screwing married woman ( Bellichick) didn't run out on his baby mama ( Brady) didn't do ass squats on his female trainer's face ( P. Manning), didn't fail to pay child support ( Cromatie), didn't commit vehicular homicide ( Donte Stallworth), need I go on?

plenewken
01-26-2011, 02:26 PM
When you're paid $10M/year, you don't bitch about paying a $5 cover charge to begin with, unless it's an event you sponsor and you're the featured guest.

Baranowski could give 2 sh*ts about Ben's $5, it's Ben's attitude that p*ssed him off.
If you've read the article, the other Steelers are not asked to pay a cover charge and they are as popular as Ben. Guess why?

chacha
01-26-2011, 04:02 PM
yeah but a lot of celebs act like that, not saying it's right, it's just that all the ****roaches came out of the woodwork to pile it on Ben. The guy did and does a lot for charities and I have heard good stories about him. Just the bad stories are the ones that get the airplay.

plenewken
01-26-2011, 04:44 PM
yeah but a lot of celebs act like that, not saying it's right, it's just that all the ****roaches came out of the woodwork to pile it on Ben. The guy did and does a lot for charities and I have heard good stories about him. Just the bad stories are the ones that get the airplay.

Charity go with the territory of being a celebrity. Banging a young & drunk college student in a bar bathroom is not part of the territory. Ben shouldn't have done it, period.

Experts in Public Relations will tell you that Ben will need lots of good stories to offset the bad one(s). The ratio is roughly 10 to 1 and in the case of a nasty story like a 2nd sexual assault, it's more like 1,000 to 1.

I think Ben is pretty much toast as far as public image, except for die-hard Steelers fans. I bet you're not going to see him in TV commercials anytime soon.

zulater
01-26-2011, 04:47 PM
Charity go with the territory of being a celebrity. Banging a young & drunk college student in a bar bathroom is not part of the territory. Ben shouldn't have done it, period.

Experts in Public Relations will tell you that Ben will need lots of good stories to offset the bad one(s). The ratio is roughly 10 to 1 and in the case of a nasty story like a 2nd sexual assault, it's more like 1,000 to 1.

I think Ben is pretty much toast as far as public image, except for die-hard Steelers fans. I bet you're not going to see him in TV commercials anytime soon.

Go tell Kobe.

Time heals many things, if Ben gets married puts on the a good show for the next couple years, and the Steelers remain successfull, Ben will be accepted by all but a few.

plenewken
01-26-2011, 05:03 PM
Go tell Kobe.

Time heals many things, if Ben gets married puts on the a good show for the next couple years, and the Steelers remain successfull, Ben will be accepted by all but a few.

.
If he gets married, stays out of trouble, has a kid plus another SB for the Steelers, yeah, this could work in a few years.

Curtain_of_Steel
01-26-2011, 06:15 PM
"he gets married, stays out of trouble, has a kid plus another SB for the Steelers, yeah, this could work in a few years. "

Thats it?lol

I wasn't aware he went to a bar recently and acted like a jackass?

Wallace17
01-26-2011, 06:59 PM
WHO FING CARES!

Ben could worship satan like Tom Brady. Does he? prob not. He could of murdered somebody but didnt. (lewis) Instead he fell off his bike. He could like toes like me and rex . Well all i can say the guy got us to another superbowl. I forgive him and people change. Trusting somebody is a big issue it just takes time.

El Nino
01-26-2011, 08:48 PM
he hasn't even been convicted of a crime. mcnulty bragged about having sex with roethlisberger (so i'm gonna take a well educated guess and say that wasn't rape). The DTF chick changed her story like 5 times which 99 times out of 100 means it's bullshit.

ben just attracted some gold diggers, he did nothing wrong other than get associated with some bitch after his money.

mesaSteeler
01-27-2011, 06:12 AM
Starkey: Big Ben a changed man? Who knows?
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_719992.html#
By Joe Starkey
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, January 27, 2011

Ben Roethlisberger has behaved in a socially acceptable manner for almost 10 months, near as anyone can tell.

Why that would merit praise, let alone glowing testaments, is beyond me.

But the testaments are rolling in and are sure to increase exponentially during Super Bowl week. Some will be out to unfairly crucify Roethlisberger, no doubt, but others will be out to unfairly extol him, sending their minions to Arlington, Texas, with one mission: Send back The Redemption of Roethlisberger story.

"Tell us how this guy rose from depravity to enlightenment," the TV man will say. "We'll open with a shot of Big Ben staring contemplatively toward the sky, while a beam of sunshine reflects off his face. We'll play 'Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen' in the background. It'll be incredible."

Oh, it's incredible, all right. But I'm talking about the growing sentiment among fans and media that Roethlisberger has undergone a radical personality transplant and has somehow proven people wrong.

Here I thought a 28-year-old man who is the face of one of sport's most iconic franchises was supposed to act normal.

How can anyone who barely knows Roethlisberger, and thousands more who've never met him, tell whether he has truly changed? For that matter, how can the people who know him best testify to such a thing when he obviously had them fooled before?

Somehow, Roethlisberger has become a sympathetic figure who, against all odds, has achieved personal salvation by completely and utterly transforming himself.

In 10 months.

Are we really this gullible?

Don't answer that.

I'm not saying Roethlisberger is the jerk he admittedly was before. He seemed pleasant enough this season. He may be partially transformed. He may be totally transformed. He may soon change his name to Mahatma Roethlisberger, or Ben Gandhi, for all I know.

But here's the point: I have no idea if he has truly, fundamentally changed as a human being, and neither do you. More to the point, I'm guessing most of you don't care, as long he stays out of trouble and continues to play championship-caliber quarterback.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

Winning makes the salvation story line work. If Roethlisberger's play had slipped this season, you can bet fans would be saying, "Ben needs to go back to his old personality; he's soft."

Only Roethlisberger knows if he is truly different. And only time will tell.

Give him and his handlers credit for this much, though. They obviously knew that perception would equate to reality in the minds of the masses, certainly in the minds of the media. They mapped out an excellent public relations campaign, and Big Ben followed it to a tee.

He kissed more babies, signed more autographs, did more charity work and changed his approach with reporters, who in turn gave him the "Chief Award," which goes to the Steelers player who cooperates best with media. It's an award Roethlisberger once mocked and boasted he would never win.

So, yes, some signs are good.

As for the Steelers, know this: They are not in the business of reforming people. They are in the business of winning football games. That's why I find it hard to believe they kept Roethlisberger last spring because they believed deep down that he was a good person who deserved another chance.

Rather, I'm thinking they kept him because he plays the most important position on the field and they'd have no chance at Super Bowl No. 7 without him.

If Santonio Holmes had been the troubled franchise quarterback and Roethlisberger the troubled receiver with an expiring contract, be sure that Roethlisberger would be gone.

Not that Holmes helped himself after being accused of throwing a drink at a woman. He kept being a nuisance. Roethlisberger, in the wake of a second sexual assault accusation in a year, was smart enough to start behaving as if he were a well-adjusted person.

Which he might be.

But let's not pretend we know.

Joe Starkey can be reached at jraystarkey@gmail.com or .

Read more: Starkey: Big Ben a changed man? Who knows? - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/print_719992.html#ixzz1CEl2xZ2i

plenewken
01-27-2011, 07:15 AM
"he gets married, stays out of trouble, has a kid plus another SB for the Steelers, yeah, this could work in a few years. "

Thats it?lol

I wasn't aware he went to a bar recently and acted like a jackass?

"he gets married, stays out of trouble, has a kid plus another SB for the Steelers, yeah, this could work in a few years. "

Thats it?lol

I wasn't aware he went to a bar recently and acted like a jackass?

You're not the whole public opinion and neither am I. I'm just saying I believe it'll take time and a perfect track record both on the field and off the field for Ben to recover most of his lost credibility as a person, and you're not going to see him in TV commercials anytime soon.

I read somewhere that his jersey is not in the top 25 sellers nationwide, when Polamalu is #1. What does this tell you?

chacha
01-27-2011, 07:41 AM
If Ray Lewis can have a street named after him, anything is possible

chacha
01-27-2011, 07:52 AM
what was the actual point of him even typing that article? Just rehashing the same old same old

steelers33
01-27-2011, 08:01 AM
Well of course we don't know he is a changed man, because we don't know what kind of person he actually is. What he has though is try to rehabiliate his public image which has been affective.

plenewken
01-27-2011, 08:13 AM
If Ray Lewis can have a street named after him, anything is possible

With Baltimore, everything is possible, except to beat the Steelers when it counts. :rofl:

chacha
01-27-2011, 08:52 AM
aint that the truth!!!

zulater
01-27-2011, 09:49 AM
Starkey: Big Ben a changed man? Who knows?
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_719992.html#
By Joe Starkey
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, January 27, 2011

Ben Roethlisberger has behaved in a socially acceptable manner for almost 10 months, near as anyone can tell.

Why that would merit praise, let alone glowing testaments, is beyond me.

But the testaments are rolling in and are sure to increase exponentially during Super Bowl week. Some will be out to unfairly crucify Roethlisberger, no doubt, but others will be out to unfairly extol him, sending their minions to Arlington, Texas, with one mission: Send back The Redemption of Roethlisberger story.

"Tell us how this guy rose from depravity to enlightenment," the TV man will say. "We'll open with a shot of Big Ben staring contemplatively toward the sky, while a beam of sunshine reflects off his face. We'll play 'Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen' in the background. It'll be incredible."

Oh, it's incredible, all right. But I'm talking about the growing sentiment among fans and media that Roethlisberger has undergone a radical personality transplant and has somehow proven people wrong.

Here I thought a 28-year-old man who is the face of one of sport's most iconic franchises was supposed to act normal.

How can anyone who barely knows Roethlisberger, and thousands more who've never met him, tell whether he has truly changed? For that matter, how can the people who know him best testify to such a thing when he obviously had them fooled before?

Somehow, Roethlisberger has become a sympathetic figure who, against all odds, has achieved personal salvation by completely and utterly transforming himself.

In 10 months.

Are we really this gullible?

Don't answer that.

I'm not saying Roethlisberger is the jerk he admittedly was before. He seemed pleasant enough this season. He may be partially transformed. He may be totally transformed. He may soon change his name to Mahatma Roethlisberger, or Ben Gandhi, for all I know.

But here's the point: I have no idea if he has truly, fundamentally changed as a human being, and neither do you. More to the point, I'm guessing most of you don't care, as long he stays out of trouble and continues to play championship-caliber quarterback.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

Winning makes the salvation story line work. If Roethlisberger's play had slipped this season, you can bet fans would be saying, "Ben needs to go back to his old personality; he's soft."

Only Roethlisberger knows if he is truly different. And only time will tell.

Give him and his handlers credit for this much, though. They obviously knew that perception would equate to reality in the minds of the masses, certainly in the minds of the media. They mapped out an excellent public relations campaign, and Big Ben followed it to a tee.

He kissed more babies, signed more autographs, did more charity work and changed his approach with reporters, who in turn gave him the "Chief Award," which goes to the Steelers player who cooperates best with media. It's an award Roethlisberger once mocked and boasted he would never win.

So, yes, some signs are good.

As for the Steelers, know this: They are not in the business of reforming people. They are in the business of winning football games. That's why I find it hard to believe they kept Roethlisberger last spring because they believed deep down that he was a good person who deserved another chance.

Rather, I'm thinking they kept him because he plays the most important position on the field and they'd have no chance at Super Bowl No. 7 without him.

If Santonio Holmes had been the troubled franchise quarterback and Roethlisberger the troubled receiver with an expiring contract, be sure that Roethlisberger would be gone.

Not that Holmes helped himself after being accused of throwing a drink at a woman. He kept being a nuisance. Roethlisberger, in the wake of a second sexual assault accusation in a year, was smart enough to start behaving as if he were a well-adjusted person.

Which he might be.

But let's not pretend we know.

Joe Starkey can be reached at jraystarkey@gmail.com or .

Read more: Starkey: Big Ben a changed man? Who knows? - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/print_719992.html#ixzz1CEl2xZ2i


Do any of us really know if Starkey is a solid well adjusted person?

Or is he just the bitter wannabe that he comes across as in this column?

plenewken
01-27-2011, 11:24 AM
Do any of us really know if Starkey is a solid well adjusted person?

Or is he just the bitter wannabe that he comes across as in this column?

I don't know who Starkey is and I don't think it's important. He doesn't come across as bitter, IMO.

What he wrote is basically what a lot of people including me think which is, stop with the "redemption", the "Ben turned his life around" and the "he's a better man" bullsh*t.

Not only we don't really know if it's true so it's more speculation than anything else but more importantly the great majority doesn't give a damn about Ben as a person, let's be honest.

I really believe that the majority of us wants Ben to play well enough to win more Superbowls with the Steelers, and that's about it.

And the ones who, in addition to Ben playing well enough, are anxious to see him become a better person, are concerned about him leaving the Steelers if he f*cks up again and nothing else.

That's how I understood what he wrote.

Fire back........

zulater
01-27-2011, 11:50 AM
I don't know who Starkey is and I don't think it's important. He doesn't come across as bitter, IMO.

What he wrote is basically what a lot of people including me think which is, stop with the "redemption", the "Ben turned his life around" and the "he's a better man" bullsh*t.

Not only we don't really know if it's true so it's more speculation than anything else but more importantly the great majority doesn't give a damn about Ben as a person, let's be honest.

I really believe that the majority of us wants Ben to play well enough to win more Superbowls with the Steelers, and that's about it.

And the ones who, in addition to Ben playing well enough, are anxious to see him become a better person, are concerned about him leaving the Steelers if he f*cks up again and nothing else.

That's how I understood what he wrote.

Fire back........

I think you and he are both very cynical. My own personal opinion is that Ben became an asshole, but down deep was always redeemable, he just needed to be nudged in the right direction. I also think the things he did were blown out of proportion, ( seperating for a minute form the rape allegation), yes he acted the part of entitled frat boy brat, but I think it's not that uncommon among young people who rose from a modest background to being put on a pedastal in a short time frame. Look at all the a-holes in Hollywood, or in the recording industry. The thing is we haven't been there, so who are we to judge?

And in my opinion Ben's previous behaviour was far from the exception around the league or even among the Steelers, past and present. I left Pittsburgh in the early 80's, but I could tell you stories of personal experiences with Steelers of that era that would be unflattering towards them. That's not to say that I found 'so and so' or 'such and such'* to be bad people, but viewed in the prism of someone else's eyes, there were more than a few assholes among them.

(*not going to name names of people who aren't here to defend themselves)

Hell there's probably more than one asshole amongst us, ( maybe even me? :chuckle: ) posting here. In fact I think the majority of people who go on message boards being overly judgemental probably have more skeletons in their opwn closet than the Munsters and Adams family combined. ( not saying you Plenk :wink02: )

Anyway, being as I don't beleive Ben ever stooped as low as pysically assaulting anyone, I think by and large he was just a guy who temporarily lost his bearings. I think he's been scared straight and would be shocked if he goes down his previous path again.

plenewken
01-27-2011, 12:20 PM
I think you and he are both very cynical. My own personal opinion is that Ben became an asshole, but down deep was always redeemable, he just needed to be nudged in the right direction. I also think the things he did were blown out of proportion, ( seperating for a minute form the rape allegation), yes he acted the part of entitled frat boy brat, but I think it's not that uncommon among young people who rose from a modest background to being put on a pedastal in a short time frame. Look at all the a-holes in Hollywood, or in the recording industry. The thing is we haven't been there, so who are we to judge?

And in my opinion Ben's previous behaviour was far from the exception around the league or even among the Steelers, past and present. I left Pittsburgh in the early 80's, but I could tell you stories of personal experiences with Steelers of that era that would be unflattering towards them. That's not to say that I found 'so and so' or 'such and such'* to be bad people, but viewed in the prism of someone else's eyes, there were more than a few assholes among them.

(*not going to name names of people who aren't here to defend themselves)

Hell there's probably more than one asshole amongst us, ( maybe even me? :chuckle: ) posting here. In fact I think the majority of people who go on message boards being overly judgemental probably have more skeletons in their opwn closet than the Munsters and Adams family combined. ( not saying you Plenk :wink02: )

Anyway, being as I don't beleive Ben ever stooped as low as pysically assaulting anyone, I think by and large he was just a guy who temporarily lost his bearings. I think he's been scared straight and would be shocked if he goes down his previous path again.

My friend, everything you wrote is fine and I have no problem with it, except that I'm not cynical. I'm brutally honest. He's not a member of my family or a personal friend.

The point of the matter is deep inside, people in general and me in particular really don't give a f*ck about Ben as a person and whether he betters himself or not. Do you? Honestly.

Their concern (and mine) is first and foremost on the Steelers side of the equation. Play well to win more Superbowls for us and stay the f*ck out of trouble so that you won't be cut by the Steelers.

That's all. Blunt, maybe, but honest.

zulater
01-27-2011, 12:51 PM
My friend, everything you wrote is fine and I have no problem with it, except that I'm not cynical. I'm brutally honest. He's not a member of my family or a personal friend.

The point of the matter is deep inside, people in general and me in particular really don't give a f*ck about Ben as a person and whether he betters himself or not. Do you? Honestly.

Their concern (and mine) is first and foremost on the Steelers side of the equation. Play well to win more Superbowls for us and stay the f*ck out of trouble so that you won't be cut by the Steelers.

That's all. Blunt, maybe, but honest.



Ben in many ways reminds me of myself at an earliar age, ( except in athletic ability :chuckle:) so I guess I do get defensive about him, and honestly do care how he's perceived and how he goes about meeting the challenges of making himself into a better human being.

I don't want to get into a lengthy discourse about myself prior to meeting ,my wife,( of 20 years and counting :hug:) but there's a lot I did between the ages of 16-27 that I'm not exactly proud of. No I never was accused of the sort of crimes that Ben was, but I was callous, uncaring, and self centered to a large extent, which was completely contrary to my upbringing. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't horrible, but at the same token I know I left the impression that I was an asshole to more than one person that I came across at the time.

I guess what it comes down to is that I think there's a lot more gray in the world than black or white. By that I mean I think very few people are absolutley good or absolutley bad., I think most of us have some of each within us, know the difference between the two, yet despite knowing the difference between right and wrong can at times be persuaded to stray on the wrong side of the line. I think the majority of us are redeemable, can stray across the line at some point in our lives, but if we're lucky enough to get through it with minimal damage can become better people in the end.


And that's where I think Ben finds himself today.

Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but it does matter to me, I really prefer that the guy I'm cheering on the field honestly gets it.

Atlanta Dan
01-28-2011, 02:12 PM
This sportswriter for SI.com does not appear to think so - some italicized excerpts and some non-italicized cynical commentary from me

Wins shouldn't make us forget about Roethlisberger's past actions

We're hearing about the obstacles he has overcome, his resilience, his redemption.

And it's making some of us more than a tad nauseous.

In case you've forgotten, or would like to gloss it over lest it dampen your guacamole-and-chips plans, Roethlisberger was accused of sexually assaulting a 20-year old college student. Nobody has forgotten unless you think your readers have the attention span of a 4 year old

The D.A. overseeing Milledgeville (population 18,000) opted not to file charges against Roethlisberger. And the accuser asked to drop charges because, according to her lawyer, "it would be a very intrusive personal experience" for her; the young woman's reputation was already in the process of being trashed.

OK. But that doesn't mean that something sordid and perhaps criminal didn't take place You wanted him indicted - too bad for you that you were not the DA

The outrage surrounding Michael Vick continues to be expressed at a higher volume than any talk about the Roethlisberger case. Yet Vick served almost two years in prison for his crimes, paid his dues to society (it should be noted that Vick was tried and convicted and Roethlisberger was not). Leaving aside the fact that you certainly appears to be more outraged about Roethlisberger, nice of you to "note" that Vick was convicted of a crime (not "tried" - Vick took a guilty plea for a more lenient sentence) and Roethlisberger was not - too bad for you that is a prerequisite for putting someone in jail

My personal observation after several years in the sports world is that grown men tend to be more infatuated with pro athletes than young women are, going to great lengths to protect, excuse and enable them. If a man said this about women it would be called sexism but perish the thought you would engage in gender based stereotypes

Guess your perspective all depends on what prism you're looking through. We agree on that although probably not for the reason you might think - but of course I am a man blinded by adulation for a football player and you are an oracle of the truth

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ann_killion/01/28/ben.roethlisberger/index.html?eref=sihp

I would e-mail this writer regarding her rehash of the usual dreck about "a crime" perhaps having been committed even though no charges were brought, it being unfortunate the pesky burden of proof beyond a reasonake doubt is so high to convict soemone of a crime, and (a favorite of mine) that Vick has somehow been more burdened by doing time for a crime for which he was indicted and pleaded guilty than Roethlisberger has for not doing time for a crime with which he was not charged, but why bother.

Nobody can possibly "forget" about Roethlisberger's conduct if they are literate and have an internet connection, but at some point I would like to tell these writers everyone has pretty much made up their mind about this issue, that you can say it is time to let it go without defending Roethlisberger or claiming he really is a great guy, and that to continue to write articles about about it reflects more upon writers with an inability to write anything original trying to pontificate than anything else.

it is going to seem like 9 months rather than 9 days to wade through this sort of crap to get to February 6.

FanSince72
01-28-2011, 02:44 PM
I find it interesting that all of this is being said before a game with the Green Bay Packers, a team which counts amongst its "All-Time Greats" a man named Paul Hornung who was the prototype for entitlement and special treatment.

A womanizer who once said "Don't get married in the morning because you never know who you'll meet in the afternoon", Hornung was suspended indefinitely from the NFL for gambling and then reinstated by virtue of Vince Lombardi's lobbying the NFL to give him a break. He was drafted into the military but was given furloughs and weekend passes to play football by the President of the United States again with Lombardi's help as a friend of Kennedy.

Let's not forget too that back in Hornung's day, the press often traveled with, dined with and shared accommodations with sports stars and that closeness and camaraderie often kept much (if not all) of those player's off-field indiscretions quite private and far from the public eye.

When compared to Hornung and many of his sports contemporaries back in the day, Roethlisberger seems more like a choirboy -- a choirboy NOT charged with any crime, nor arrested for any crime, by the way. Unlike Hornung who admitted to his indiscretions as part of his being allowed to play again.

I'd say that Ben might be guilty of being dope for allowing himself to get into these public relations jackpots, but beyond that, I don't see how he even compares to someone like "The Golden Boy" when it comes to illegal behavior, yet Hornung is considered a legend in Green Bay.

Must be all that cheese.