PDA

View Full Version : lets go back in time a little...


TRH
02-07-2011, 01:48 PM
Just for thoughts sakes.
Lets say Aaron Smith doesn't get injured this year and plays right up through last night.
Same with Starks, Colon, and Pouncey.

Do you see any different outcome?

tube517
02-07-2011, 01:50 PM
They couldn't have prevented the 2nd pick and the fumble so no.

Just for thoughts sakes.
Lets say Aaron Smith doesn't get injured this year and plays right up through last night.
Same with Starks, Colon, and Pouncey.

Do you see any different outcome?

Curtain_of_Steel
02-07-2011, 01:55 PM
Seriously?

Whatoutcome do you expect?

Legusky played great. Pouncey is the center

HOOd is your new DE, cause smith is not coming back in his spot.

We made it to the superbowl, those 3 players not playing didn't cause us to lose.

FanSince72
02-07-2011, 01:57 PM
Just for thoughts sakes.
Lets say Aaron Smith doesn't get injured this year and plays right up through last night.
Same with Starks, Colon, and Pouncey.

Do you see any different outcome?

Not really.

Because the problems we've had on defense don't involve the line as much as the secondary -- specifically the corners.

What we need to complete this defense are a pair of shut-down corners. Troy and RC can only do so much and the D-line can only do so much and once the ball is in the air we need a pair of corners who we KNOW can make a play and get us off the field on 3rd downs without having to depend on help from the safeties.

Far too many times this year --- even with the banged up D-line we had --- we've seen 3rd and 15, 3rd and 18 situations that were created by our D-line turn into first downs because somebody "back there" wasn't getting it done.

THAT more than anything else has to be addressed.

TRH
02-07-2011, 02:01 PM
Seriously?

Whatoutcome do you expect?

Legusky played great. Pouncey is the center

HOOd is your new DE, cause smith is not coming back in his spot.

We made it to the superbowl, those 3 players not playing didn't cause us to lose.

chill out, dude....it was purely a "hypothetical", not an absolute.

casteeler
02-07-2011, 02:08 PM
Can any of these guys play DB?

harrison'samonster
02-07-2011, 02:16 PM
I believe that if the O-line had been healthy all year long, our offense would have had a chance to develop and improve, making them more dangerous as a team. I'm not sure they got a chance to do that this year.

As far as outcome in the SB, who knows, it's something to think about for next season I guess

Atlanta Dan
02-07-2011, 02:18 PM
Just for thoughts sakes.
Lets say Aaron Smith doesn't get injured this year and plays right up through last night.
Same with Starks, Colon, and Pouncey.

Do you see any different outcome?

Only if they were able to lose a lot of weight and play defensive back

(Did not see casteeler already made the same observation)

4xSBChamps
02-07-2011, 03:39 PM
despite the injuries to the OL, the fact remains that midway through the 3rd quarter, we were RUNNING THE BALL AT-WILL against Green Bay, with Mendenhall repeatedly getting chunks of ground off the Right Guard / Right Tackle:
the Pack had shown no ability to stuff our running game

go-back and look at the 3rd QTR ~ leading 21-10, GB receives the kick-off, we hold them & force a punt, (as I recall) aided by a bogus face-mask penalty ~ 6 or 8 running plays later, we are in the endzone, and only trail 21-17, demoralizing GB's defense

(somebody with a game-log or record of plays can verify or question my memory)
:drink:

after the KO & another forced punt, we RUN the ball on consecutive plays to mid-field, then we try a long pass down the Left sideline (to Wallace?) that harmlessly floats into the endzone, then we throw another pass (to Ward?), good for another 1st down (at the GB 29?):
we try a 3rd consecutive pass that falls incomplete, then I believe we are sacked for short losses on consecutive plays, setting-up 4th & 15-ish from our-own 35, where we attempt & miss a 52 yd FG

regardless of the missed FG, we lost momentum at that time when we abandoned the running-game, which was not-only moving the chains and bringing us back into contention, but was raising doubt in the Packer's defense about stopping us, and chewing valuable time of the clock, keeping Rodgers & Co wearing caps & wind-breakers

I think we took OURSELVES out of the game in that sequence of events

steeltheone
02-07-2011, 03:42 PM
Just for thoughts sakes.
Lets say Aaron Smith doesn't get injured this year and plays right up through last night.
Same with Starks, Colon, and Pouncey.

Do you see any different outcome?

Oh no another " The Great Aaron Smith" post.....We were better without him!

austinfrench76
02-07-2011, 10:49 PM
This may seem odd to say but does anyone else feel like Ben plays BETTER when he is under duress?? When he has time and can sit back there and survey the field, he just doesn't seem to be taht great. But, when things break down and he has to "create" he is amazing. So, no, i don't think there would have been a different outcome with those players. We lost because of 3 turnovers, everything else is a bi product of those turnovers.

Fire Arians
02-07-2011, 11:22 PM
our secondary is the problem. EVERY time we've faced an elite quarterback, we lost. this says something about our defense. yes i know 3 turnovers were critical, but for a team that prides ourselves on defense, we need to keep them out of the end zone.

FanSince72
02-07-2011, 11:42 PM
This may seem odd to say but does anyone else feel like Ben plays BETTER when he is under duress?? When he has time and can sit back there and survey the field, he just doesn't seem to be taht great. But, when things break down and he has to "create" he is amazing. So, no, i don't think there would have been a different outcome with those players. We lost because of 3 turnovers, everything else is a bi product of those turnovers.

Absolutely.

Ben is one of those people who need a crisis in order to focus on a situation.

I'm like that myself.

If I have, say, two weeks to do something, I go through the motions and drag it out bored to tears for the first week or more. But when I suddenly realize that I only have a few days left, I kick it into overdrive and bingo! Everything gets done.

It's not the greatest way to be, but it sure gets the blood pumping and my focus tends.to be extremely intense.

FanSince72
02-08-2011, 12:09 AM
our secondary is the problem. EVERY time we've faced an elite quarterback, we lost. this says something about our defense. yes i know 3 turnovers were critical, but for a team that prides ourselves on defense, we need to keep them out of the end zone.

I was just thinking about that today.

I can't recall us having a really solid secondary in the last decade. Lately, I've gotten to the point where when facing a team with a good QB in, say, a third and eight situation, instead of thinking that we're going to stop him and get the ball back, I find myself hoping that they just don't get too far past the first down marker after he completes the pass.

That's pretty sad.

I know it's almost sacrilege to criticize LeBeau, but he seems to focus way too much on the front seven and doesn't seem all that interested in the "back four". This is especially true because of Troy. I think that LeBeau sometimes takes him for granted and figures that "Troy will handle it" and when he's 100%, he usually does.

But what about when Troy isn't 100% which seems to be more often lately?

I find it odd that a guy who actually was a DB doesn't seem too interested in having really good ones play for him. Maybe it's because of his era. When LeBeau was playing, the old "three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust" method of football was the norm and in that setting, a good front seven was often all you really needed.

But today, passing is the name of the game and as more and more teams are going with one form or another of a West Coast offense, solid DB's and Safeties are becoming more important than D-lines and Linebackers.

I know that the whole "Steeler Football" mystique is all wrapped up in linebackers and other knuckle-dragging monster types, but the primary weakness in our "D" is the play of the Secondary. Like I said, Troy is a huge help for us, but we all know how badly we play when he's out and that all by itself demonstrates the problem. No team should have to depend on the health of ONE player in order for it's defense to be effective and that's exactly what we've been doing.

But even with Troy relatively healthy, our lack of a sound secondary was proven against the Packers. Rodgers (and his West Coast offense) gets the ball to his receivers very quickly. So quickly that even a flat-out blitz couldn't get to him and that leaves everything up to the secondary. But even without the blitz and with linebackers dropping into coverage, we still look confused and are often out of position in the secondary and I think that's because we depend so much on the front seven, that we haven't really developed a solid secondary in terms of technique or philosophy and that comes back to bite us every time we face a West Coast team or (as you say) an elite QB.

I know that everyone loves LeBeau and everyone thinks he's a living legend, but that also has a downside which involves getting so caught up in his genius and his mastery of the defense that we're overlooking the glaring holes in our defense once the play goes beyond the line of scrimmage.

Either LeBeau isn't seeing the problem, or maybe he puts too much emphasis on an older style of play, or maybe he's even bought into his own mythology of never being wrong, but something has to change. The other problem with living legends is that no one else wants to be the one to tell them that they may not be getting it right and that's just as bad.

I'm not suggesting that we get rid of Lebeau, but someone needs to tell him that the passing game is where it's at today and that more and more teams are opting for a pass-oriented offense and that the guys who are throwing the ball are getting better and faster and that's not going to change.

Big tough linebackers may make for a great tough guy image, but I'd rather see that image change to strong and quick DB's who can handle single coverage, complex routes and fast receivers.

4xSBChamps
02-08-2011, 12:21 AM
I find it odd that a guy who actually was a DB doesn't seem too interested in having really good ones play for him. Maybe it's because of his era. When LeBeau was playing, the old "three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust" method of football was the norm and in that setting, a good front seven was often all you really needed.

in-defense of LeBeau, he can only 'coach' whomever the scouting department & draftniks bring-in ~ unless I'm mistaken in my understanding of how the Steeler Front Office runs things, scouts-scout, and coaches-coach

... may-be???
:noidea:

FanSince72
02-08-2011, 12:27 AM
in-defense of LeBeau, he can only 'coach' whomever the scouting department & draftniks bring-in ~ unless I'm mistaken in my understanding of how the Steeler Front Office runs things, scouts-scout, and coaches-coach

... may-be???
:noidea:

You may be right, but come on.

A guy with LeBeau's cred can't walk into Colbert's office and demand a shutdown corner?

I'll bet if LeBeau wanted the locker room painted in zebra stripes, there'd be a painting crew waiting outside the door the very next morning.

4xSBChamps
02-08-2011, 12:45 AM
You may be right, but come on.

A guy with LeBeau's cred can't walk into Colbert's office and demand a shutdown corner?

I'll bet if LeBeau wanted the locker room painted in zebra stripes, there'd be a painting crew waiting outside the door the very next morning.

by my quick & unofficial count, there were 20 college CB chosen in the 2010 draftbefore Pittsburgh picks Crezdon Butler in the 5th round (164th pick, overall), so apparently the FO was content with what they (thought they) had going into the 2010 season

:noidea:

tube517
02-08-2011, 12:53 AM
Part of the problem is they can't sign a free agent "shutdown corner" because they have too much money tied into the other positions. And I think Tomlin got wide eyed with all the LB's they drafted this year. The needs are CB, OL, DL right now. McFadden is too injury prone. He hasn't been the same since 2008. He was injured w/the Cardinals in '09 and was limping to the Super Bowl this year. They need to address the secondary even if they had won.

FanSince72
02-08-2011, 01:01 AM
by my quick & unofficial count, there were 20 college CB chosen in the 2010 draftbefore Pittsburgh picks Crezdon Butler in the 5th round (164th pick, overall), so apparently the FO was content with what they (thought they) had going into the 2010 season

:noidea:

And apparently the FO was wrong and that's my point. Someone needs to start knocking on some doors in that office and start talking about DB's.