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View Full Version : Time to talk about the real Big Ben.


Steelerz4Life
02-08-2011, 07:53 PM
First off, in regards to Super Bowl XLV, the better team did not win, it was just that Ben did everything he could to give the Packers the win. I could bring up how even Troy Aikman was wondering why the Packers were not being called for holding, but nevermind, we had a chance to win in the end and Ben choked.

Let's take a look at Ben. I am tired of trying to find reasons to tell other fans why he should be considered one of the best in the game, when in reality, he is little more than a Jay Cutler, Carson Palmer or some other above average at best QB.

Sure Ben is very big, there is not a stronger QB in the game, he has a cannon arm. Unfortunately, he is dumber than a rock. I suggest you look at all 3 Super Bowls that Ben has been in, you will notice that he has been completely humiliated and out performed by whatever QB it was he faced. How about we compare Ben's Super Bowl stats to other Super Bowl QBs who REALLY ARE great and lengends:

The Legend Terry Bradshaw - 4 Super Bowl wins

89 attempts, 49 completions, 58.3% completion, 932 yards, 9 TD passes, 4 INTs

Keep in mind, Bradshaw played in a real tough era, where DBs were allowed to actually play like the position was meant to be played.

Joe Montana - 4 Super Bowl wins
122 pass attempts, 83 completions, 68% completion, 1142 yards, 11 TD passes 0 Ints.


Tom Brady - 3 Super Bowl wins, 1 Super Bowl loss

156 attempts, 99 completions, 64% completion, 990 yards, 7 TD passes 1 INT


Troy Aikman 3 Super Bowl wins

80 attempts, 56 completions, 70% completion, 689 yards, 5 TD passes 1 INT.


Then we have Ben 2 Super Bowl wins, 1 Loss


92 attempts, 56 completions, 61% completion, 677 yards 3 TD passes, 5 INTS



The thing is, Ben has never carried the Steelers to a Super Bowl win, all the above QBs have. I know there are many other QBs, but I can't list them all that have been great like Elway, Favre, Staubach and others. All these great QBs have carried their teams in the big game, with Ben, his performances have been awful and it was the Steelers that carried him.

I am tired of defending this guy. He is nothing compared to those great legends. He has shamed this great Steeler franchise off the field, and he did a great job of shaming it again in Super Bowl XLV. The only thing missing from Super Bowl XLV was Ben going over to the Packers and handing them the Lombardi himself.

CargoJon
02-08-2011, 07:55 PM
Did you bother watching Elway's first couple of Super Bowls? Yikes.

SH-Rock
02-08-2011, 07:56 PM
Super Bowl 43, look it up

quiggle
02-08-2011, 07:57 PM
Ben might not be, but your first post was legendary. what are you a Sacramento Kings fan, get out of here.

SteelCityMom
02-08-2011, 07:59 PM
Saaaweeet! Another Ben bashing thread!!!

:coffee:

CargoJon
02-08-2011, 08:00 PM
Oh, and name me another QB in the league that's been to 3 Super Bowls in the last 6 years....let alone won 2 in the last 6 years.

Brady - nope. Hasn't won one since before we won XL.
Manning - nope. The WhoDats made him their bitch
Rogers - nope.
Rivers - that cat can't win in the playoffs to save his ass.

Care to trade Ben over the last 6 years for any of these fine gents? Who would you prefer?

Steelerz4Life
02-08-2011, 08:01 PM
Did you bother watching Elway's first couple of Super Bowls? Yikes.

I kind of missed those, I was born in 1993.


SH Rock

Ben threw 1 TD pass and 1 INT in 43. Warner, completely outperformed Ben.

SteelCityMom
02-08-2011, 08:01 PM
Ben might not be, but your first post was legendary. what are you a Sacramento Kings fan, get out of here.


You might be on to something. He is from Cali. :chuckle:

SteelCityMom
02-08-2011, 08:02 PM
I kind of missed those, I was born in 1993.


SH Rock

Ben threw 1 TD pass and 1 INT in 43. Warner, completely outperformed Ben.

Not where it mattered.

mcg24
02-08-2011, 08:02 PM
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/5869/844812-fail_thread_super.jpg

SH-Rock
02-08-2011, 08:03 PM
I kind of missed those, I was born in 1993.


SH Rock

Ben threw 1 TD pass and 1 INT in 43. Warner, completely outperformed Ben.

True, but Stats are for losers. You keep looking at stats, Ben will keep getting wins. If Ben led us to win the Super Bowl, there will be no question who was the better big game and 4th quarter, Quarterback.

vasteeler
02-08-2011, 08:03 PM
nice first post........:doh::finger:

Steelerz4Life
02-08-2011, 08:04 PM
Oh, and name me another QB in the league that's been to 3 Super Bowls in the last 6 years....let alone won 2 in the last 6 years.

Brady - nope. Hasn't won one since before we won XL.
Manning - nope. The WhoDats made him their bitch
Rogers - nope.
Rivers - that cat can't win in the playoffs to save his ass.

Care to trade Ben over the last 6 years for any of these fine gents? Who would you prefer?

I would take Brady over Ben in a heartbeat. I hate the Patriots, but that hate will not blind me in that he is a truly great QB.

Rogers, well, yet another QB who outperformed Ben. Ben is what he is, a QB that will always need to have the team carry him. Rogers is only going to get better. So I would take Rogers over Ben as well.

Manning or Ben, Manning is overrated just like Ben, I'll flip a coin.

Rivers, Ok, you presented a QB I would take Ben over.

Steelerz4Life
02-08-2011, 08:07 PM
True, but Stats are for losers. You keep looking at stats, Ben will keep getting wins. If Ben led us to win the Super Bowl, there will be no question who was the better big game and 4th quarter, Quarterback.

Do you see the word I bolded? It is "if". One of my English teachers said "if" is the biggest two letter word in the English language.

SteelCityMom
02-08-2011, 08:08 PM
:toofunny:

Manning overrated. That's rich.

SH-Rock
02-08-2011, 08:13 PM
Do you see the word I bolded? It is "if". One of my English teachers said "if" is the biggest two letter word in the English language.

Ok then lets look at reality
2/3 Super Bowl wins.
Brady 3/4
Manning 1/2
Rivers 0

I'm not saying any of those are bad, but you're not giving Ben enough credit.

BigRick
02-08-2011, 08:13 PM
I would take Brady over Ben in a heartbeat. I hate the Patriots, but that hate will not blind me in that he is a truly great QB.

Rogers, well, yet another QB who outperformed Ben. Ben is what he is, a QB that will always need to have the team carry him. Rogers is only going to get better. So I would take Rogers over Ben as well.

Manning or Ben, Manning is overrated just like Ben, I'll flip a coin.

Rivers, Ok, you presented a QB I would take Ben over.

Just as I figured you never saw Bradshaw play. Sure he was on a team that won 4 Super Bowls and is in the Hall of Fame, but believe me he wasn't that great at times either.
Your mama must have dropped you on your head at an early age. :rofl:

Steelerz4Life
02-08-2011, 08:33 PM
Ok then lets look at reality
2/3 Super Bowl wins.
Brady 3/4
Manning 1/2
Rivers 0

I'm not saying any of those are bad, but you're not giving Ben enough credit.

Again, I hate the Patriots, but Big Ben is not even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Tom Brady. Like it or not, Brady is one of the all time greats, as where Ben is an above average QB at best who was carried to 2 Super Bowls. Like it or not, the Patriots won BECAUSE of Brady. Like it or not, the Steelers won 2 of their Super Bowl IN SPITE of Ben, not BECAUSE of Ben. It is just that simple.

BigRick
02-08-2011, 08:36 PM
Again, I hate the Patriots, but Big Ben is not even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Tom Brady. Like it or not, Brady is one of the all time greats, as where Ben is an above average QB at best who was carried to 2 Super Bowls. Like it or not, the Patriots won BECAUSE of Brady. Like it or not, the Steelers won 2 of their Super Bowl IN SPITE of Ben, not BECAUSE of Ben. It is just that simple.

Yeah I guess Santonio threw the ball to himself, so he could make the game winning catch! :rofl:

Steelerz4Life
02-08-2011, 08:41 PM
Yeah I guess Santonio threw the ball to himself, so he could make the game winning catch! :rofl:

Even a blind chicken sometimes finds a kernel of corn.

Super Bowl 40, because Ben could not figure out how to throw a TD pass, they had to have Randle El do it for him. Randle El 1 TD pass 0 INTs, Ben 0 TD passes 2 INTS.

SteelCityMom
02-08-2011, 08:44 PM
Again, I hate the Patriots, but Big Ben is not even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Tom Brady. Like it or not, Brady is one of the all time greats, as where Ben is an above average QB at best who was carried to 2 Super Bowls. Like it or not, the Patriots won BECAUSE of Brady. Like it or not, the Steelers won 2 of their Super Bowl IN SPITE of Ben, not BECAUSE of Ben. It is just that simple.

Correction...the Patriots won because of Adam Vinatieri.

Sixburgher
02-08-2011, 08:46 PM
Like it or not, the Patriots won BECAUSE of Brady.

No, they won because of their defense, Vinatieri's toe and illegal videotape.

CargoJon
02-08-2011, 08:53 PM
No, they won because of their defense, Vinatieri's toe and illegal videotape.

And asshole John Kasay kicking a kickoff out of bounds.

And Donovan McNabb vomiting and Andy Reid having no clue regarding clock management.

CargoJon
02-08-2011, 08:54 PM
Enjoy your ban.

And your group home for mentally challenged youths.

Sixburgher
02-08-2011, 08:55 PM
And asshole John Kasay kicking a kickoff out of bounds.

And Donovan McNabb vomiting and Andy Reid having no clue regarding clock management.

And an overturned fumble against the Raiders.

BigRick
02-08-2011, 08:55 PM
Even a blind chicken sometimes finds a kernel of corn.

Super Bowl 40, because Ben could not figure out how to throw a TD pass, they had to have Randle El do it for him. Randle El 1 TD pass 0 INTs, Ben 0 TD passes 2 INTS.

Yeah your right. Even Ben admitted he didn't play well in that game. You point out some other QB's as being great some were some weren't. Ben admitts he probably won't win any passing titles, but like some one else said you don't give him enough credit. But any time you can get your team to 3 Super Bowls and win 2 that ain't to damn bad. Oh, yeah how about Hall of Famer Dan Marino 1 Super Bowl 1 loss, so I guess he doesn't belong in the Hall of fame? :helmet:

SteelCityMom
02-08-2011, 08:56 PM
Yeah your right. Even Ben admitted he didn't play well in that game. You point out some other QB's as being great some were some weren't. Ben admitts he probably won't win any passing titles, but like some one else said you don't give him enough credit. But any time you can get your team to 3 Super Bowls and win 2 that ain't to damn bad. Oh, yeah how about Hall of Famer Dan Marino 1 Super Bowl 1 loss, so I guess he doesn't belong in the Hall of fame? :helmet:

Screw that talk Rick...we need Batch! No doubt he'll lead us to a 7th SB victory! :tt02:

Sixburgher
02-08-2011, 09:00 PM
Ben threw 1 TD pass and 1 INT in 43. Warner, completely outperformed Ben.

Warner outperformed Brady in Super Bowl 36 too. So what?

Steelerz4Life
02-08-2011, 09:05 PM
Enjoy your ban.

And your group home for mentally challenged youths.

Thanks for the insult. I am glad you admitted I completely pwned you.

mcg24
02-08-2011, 09:05 PM
Even a blind chicken sometimes finds a kernel of corn.

Super Bowl 40, because Ben could not figure out how to throw a TD pass, they had to have Randle El do it for him. Randle El 1 TD pass 0 INTs, Ben 0 TD passes 2 INTS.

I've been calling for us to cut Ben for years now! Randle El was perfect in that Super Bowl. Are there any other QBs in history that have completed every pass they've thrown and have all of them been TDs in a Super Bowl. Randle El could be the greatest QB of all time! Great logic there!

stb_steeler
02-08-2011, 09:07 PM
Saaaweeet! Another Ben bashing thread!!!

:coffee:

Perhaps DOWNBYLAW.......:rofl:

BigRick
02-08-2011, 09:10 PM
Screw that talk Rick...we need Batch! No doubt he'll lead us to a 7th SB victory! :tt02:

My apologies SCMom. I'm a Ben supporter through and through, but he did admit he did't play very well in that game because of nerves. I also like Charlie but with all due respect he ain't gonna lead us to no. 7! The point I was going for is that the guy wasn't around to see most of the QB"s he named. :helmet:

SteelCityMom
02-08-2011, 09:15 PM
My apologies SCMom. I'm a Ben supporter through and through, but he did admit he did't play very well in that game because of nerves. I also like Charlie but with all due respect he ain't gonna lead us to no. 7! The point I was going for is that the guy wasn't around to see most of the QB"s he named. :helmet:

Lol...I know he didn't play well. Wasn't defending his play at all. He mentioned in another thread that Batch would have won that game...made me laugh.

I wasn't alive yet when Terry played either, but I've watched all the Superbowls he was in and a lot of playoff and regular season games, and Terry is definitely not a legend because of his overall play. Hell, he got MVP in a Superbowl where he threw 3 INTs and 2 TDs lol.

stb_steeler
02-08-2011, 09:22 PM
Unfortunately, he is dumber than a rock
They said the same thing about Bradshaw!

FanSince72
02-08-2011, 09:33 PM
I am fed up to my eyeballs with "Stat People".

For Chrissakes you'd think that the whole of a QB's career can be judged solely on percentages, ratings and all of the other statistical bullshit.

If you want to talk stats that count, you can't because they don't keep such numbers. How 'bout a slugging percentage for QB's? They have such a thing for baseball, so why not football? If there was such a category Ben would be at the top of the list because 95% of the time, when it absolutely positively has to get done, Ben does it.

And why are so many people hung up on SB XL?

Did any of these cretins actually watch the playoffs that preceded the SB? Ben looked great against Cincy, he made Manning look like a putz in the divisional round and we owned the Colts in that game. If Troy's pick/fumble/recovery was ruled correctly at the time (which it wasn't and they later apologized for getting it wrong), we would have scored on that drive and that game was history.

But they screwed up and then when Bettis fumbled it muddied everything up, but make no mistake, Ben was "On" that day.

And how 'bout the clinic Ben put on in Denver the following week? My favorite moment was after Bettis' TD was called back because Hines was not lined up properly, Ben just calls Hines' number on the next play and hits him perfectly at the back of the end zone.

By the time the SB came around, Cowher had two full weeks to educate Ben on the intricacies of "Martyball" because he was nervous about possibly losing another SB. So by the time the game came around, Ben was reduced to little more than a manager. During the game, it got to the point where Ben finally went up to Cowher and said, "Coach, let's play to win, let's not play not to lose".


So all in all, for a kid who was just a 22 year old NFL sophomore, I'd say that he acquitted himself quite well overall even if his SB performance was less than expected (gee, do you suppose this 22 year old might have been just a bit nervous too?), yet to hear the "Stat People" tell it, you'd think Ben was just some tall guy we found eating a hot dog in Section 104 and we threw a uniform on him and sent him out onto the field.

In SB XL Ben didn't break any records or throw for ten TD's or any of that other crap that everyone seems to think matters in such games but he DID manage to add a shiny new Lombardi to the Rooney's trophy case.

Not bad for a kid's first Super Bowl

Oh and by the way, since the "legends" were brought up, in the legendary Terry Bradshaw's very first Super Bowl, he threw 14 passes, completed 9 all for a whopping 96 yards and one TD.

That doesn't seem all that legendary to me, but he brought the very first Lombardi to the Rooney's and they didn't even have a trophy case yet.

BigRick
02-08-2011, 09:36 PM
Lol...I know he didn't play well. Wasn't defending his play at all. He mentioned in another thread that Batch would have won that game...made me laugh.

I wasn't alive yet when Terry played either, but I've watched all the Superbowls he was in and a lot of playoff and regular season games, and Terry is definitely not a legend because of his overall play. Hell, he got MVP in a Superbowl where he threw 3 INTs and 2 TDs lol.

I knew you were yankin my chain. Terry's play was a litle erratic at times. Fortunately he had a good OL a fantastic core of recievers in Swann and Stallworth and a killeer defense. I've been lucky enough to see some really great QB's play some in person and more on tv. QB's in todays game don't take near the punishment they did in Bradshaws day. :helmet:

FanSince72
02-08-2011, 09:38 PM
Unfortunately, he is dumber than a rock
They said the same thing about Bradshaw!

Yeah but the difference is that Ben can spell "cat" without anyone spotting him any letters.

SH-Rock
02-08-2011, 09:38 PM
I knew you were yankin my chain. Terry's play was a litle erratic at times. Fortunately he had a good OL a fantastic core of recievers in Swann and Stallworth and a killeer defense. I've been lucky enough to see some really great QB's play some in person and more on tv. QB's in todays game don't take near the punishment they did in Bradshaws day. :helmet:

Except our boy Ben. Ben is tough and have the plays aren't even called for.

xli...
02-08-2011, 09:41 PM
If the Steelers would have won, NONE of this threads would be on here. The man lost a Super Bowl. The Great Tom Brady has lost a Super Bowl.

It happens. Look forward to next year and hopefully we get to play in Manning's pad for that 7th ring.

SteelCityMom
02-08-2011, 09:44 PM
I knew you were yankin my chain. Terry's play was a litle erratic at times. Fortunately he had a good OL a fantastic core of recievers in Swann and Stallworth and a killeer defense. I've been lucky enough to see some really great QB's play some in person and more on tv. QB's in todays game don't take near the punishment they did in Bradshaws day. :helmet:

Totally agree. Ben reminds me a lot of Terry sometimes. Neither are/were big stat guys, and more often than not, they weren't going to blow teams out with yards or touchdowns...but man they could both come through in clutch moments. Not every single time, but most times.

One thing I think Terry had on Ben though was his arm. Dude could throw a rocket down the field.

BigRick
02-08-2011, 09:47 PM
Except our boy Ben. Ben is tough and have the plays aren't even called for.

You're right Ben is a tough son of a gun. Had that in my earlier post, but my hunt and peck typing method hit a wrong key and erased the post and I fogot it the second time. :helmet:

cloppbeast
02-08-2011, 09:48 PM
It seems as though Steelers fans are either on one extreme or the other.

I heard one guy say Batch could have beat the Packers.

I heard another guy say he wouldn't take any other QB in the league over Ben.

Ben is neither terrible nor elite. He's a good leader; he's clutch; he's very elusive; most importantly he's tough. But he's an erratic passer - extremely inaccurate at times. Even at his best, his accuracy is only above average. It seems to me he has trouble reading defenses as well.

Credit Ben for using his strengths. A man must know his limitations, also. He normally doesn't make a quick decision and make a tight pass because he's not very accurate and his deficiencies reading a D. What he does is buy time with his legs, strength, and brute waiting for a receiver to get wide open.

Sometimes this strategy works beautifully. When it does he looks like John Elway. Unfortunately it doesn't always work.

tube517
02-08-2011, 09:51 PM
:yawn:

HAWK
02-08-2011, 09:56 PM
@OP

Say all this now. And when we're winning again you'll be screaming for Ben like a school girl.

I hate bandwagon fans.

JEFF4i
02-08-2011, 09:57 PM
Aha.

Aha.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Denver in Elway's appearances in the Superbowl before his first win. Denver after it.

Look, it ain't always gonna be pretty, and the Packers Defense makes good quarterbacks look bad.

I'll take Ben. He's gonna be a good boy, and retire a Steeler. And ALL of you will eat crow because of it. No one will be surprised if he is the first to win 5 Superbowls, and if he doesn't win another, he helped give us two, and some great football.

HAWK
02-08-2011, 10:00 PM
Well said.

Though everyone said we wouldn't get back after 43.

We did.

Maybe we can do it again.

BigRick
02-08-2011, 10:01 PM
Totally agree. Ben reminds me a lot of Terry sometimes. Neither are/were big stat guys, and more often than not, they weren't going to blow teams out with yards or touchdowns...but man they could both come through in clutch moments. Not every single time, but most times.

One thing I think Terry had on Ben though was his arm. Dude could throw a rocket down the field.

Yeah you're right Bradshaw had a cannon. One of his nicknames was The Blond Bomber. Ben also reminds me of Bradshaw with his toughness.:helmet:

FanSince72
02-08-2011, 10:03 PM
Yeah you're right Bradshaw had a cannon. One of his nicknames was The Blond Bomber. Ben also reminds me of Bradshaw with his toughness.:helmet:

Agreed.

I've often said that if you shortened Ben by three inches and put a #12 jersey on him, it would be hard to tell the difference between him and Bradshaw (except for the arm).

BigRick
02-08-2011, 10:13 PM
Agreed.

I've often said that if you shortened Ben by three inches and put a #12 jersey on him, it would be hard to tell the difference between him and Bradshaw (except for the arm).

Never thought about it like that but you make a very god point. :helmet:

tube517
02-08-2011, 10:15 PM
That's what she said

Agreed.

I've often said that if you shortened Ben by three inches and put a #12 jersey on him, it would be hard to tell the difference between him and Bradshaw (except for the arm).

FanSince72
02-08-2011, 10:22 PM
One more thing for all of the "Stat People" out there.

Ben's career passer rating (including this year) is 92.5

Terry Bradshaw's carreer passer rating is (drumroll) 70.9

in fact, Bradshaw never had a rating in any single year higher than 88.0, but in his eight year career, Ben has had: 3 years between 97 and and 99, 2 years over 100 and two years no lower than 75.


No doubt about it, Ben needs to go.

CargoJon
02-08-2011, 10:24 PM
Thanks for the insult. I am glad you admitted I completely pwned you.

Thanks for using the word "pwned". I'll reserve the rest of my discussion time for the grown ups on this board. :coffee:

StainlessStill
02-08-2011, 10:24 PM
Really? I don't give a flying f*ck if Ben went 0-32 with 8 int's. You give me NOBODY in the NFL to guide the Pittsburgh Steelers than Ben Roetlisberger. He's an absolute perfect fit here and one tough son of a bitch. Regardless of his off-field issues, the man plays an absolute HUGE part of our success. Give me #7 over anybody and "ya'll" could have anybody else!

KordellO'Donnell
02-08-2011, 10:39 PM
Saaaweeet! Another Ben bashing thread!!!

:coffee:

You got that right~!:tt03:

I've always said he is nothing but LUCKY, Colts shoestring tackle lol

CargoJon
02-08-2011, 10:40 PM
You got that right~!:tt03:

I've always said he is nothing but LUCKY, Colts shoestring tackle lol

If he was THAT lucky, Bettis wouldn't have fumbled the ball to begin with.:hatsoff:

SteelCityMom
02-08-2011, 10:47 PM
You got that right~!:tt03:

I've always said he is nothing but LUCKY, Colts shoestring tackle lol

http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/4721755/Double-Facepalm-When-the-fail-is-so-strong-one-isnt-enough.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=TrekDoubleFacePalm

KordellO'Donnell
02-08-2011, 10:49 PM
Oh and by the way, since the "legends" were brought up, in the legendary Terry Bradshaw's very first Super Bowl, he threw 14 passes, completed 9 all for a whopping 96 yards and one TD.

And how many interceptions did Bradshaw have????

NONE

Why have an injured drama queen pass so much? Run the ball, should have gave Mendy some more chances.....uh.....(before the fumble):rofl:

FanSince72
02-08-2011, 10:50 PM
You got that right~!:tt03:

I've always said he is nothing but LUCKY, Colts shoestring tackle lol


Have you ever thought about how your life would have turned out if you'd actually HAD enough oxygen at birth?

SteelCityMom
02-08-2011, 10:52 PM
Oh and by the way, since the "legends" were brought up, in the legendary Terry Bradshaw's very first Super Bowl, he threw 14 passes, completed 9 all for a whopping 96 yards and one TD.


And how many interceptions did Bradshaw have????

NONE

Why have an injured drama queen pass so much? Run the ball, should have gave Mendy some more chances.....uh.....(before the fumble):rofl:

In which SB? He threw 3 of them in SB XVI. :coffee:

GMU Steeler
02-08-2011, 10:52 PM
Sure let's talk about a guy who has made the AFC championship game more often than not in his career. Sure his stats aren't the greatest and it sure as hell isn't always pretty but he's still a very good QB.

CargoJon
02-08-2011, 10:54 PM
In which SB? He threw 3 of them in SB XVI. :coffee:

I'll donate $20 to the site if you ban these 2 clowns and close this thread. :tt03:

shevdog
02-09-2011, 10:23 AM
In Bizzaro-Pittsburgh, there exists Steelers QB everyone loves and can get behind.

Pittsburgh LOVES its QB's!

I sense bitterness that we can't grab one of Western PA's Hall of Fame QB's for our own city. Imagine if we had Montana or Marino instead of Brister and O'Donnell... Pipe dream!

ebsteelers
02-09-2011, 11:04 AM
go root for the browns if you dont like ben

stb_steeler
02-09-2011, 11:08 AM
Yeah but the difference is that Ben can spell "cat" without anyone spotting him any letters.

I see someones been watching their NFL Americas game....ll

stb_steeler
02-09-2011, 11:12 AM
Really? I don't give a flying f*ck if Ben went 0-32 with 8 int's. You give me NOBODY in the NFL to guide the Pittsburgh Steelers than Ben Roetlisberger. He's an absolute perfect fit here and one tough son of a bitch. Regardless of his off-field issues, the man plays an absolute HUGE part of our success. Give me #7 over anybody and "ya'll" could have anybody else!

Exactly Stainless... those who think things would be better with another QB need to understand this, how many other QB's would have been able to withstand all the punishment behind this OL. I know its been said before but damn it, at least someone tell me who?__________________________________ Thats what i thought!

MaineSteelerFan
02-09-2011, 11:35 AM
While I agree that the Steelers where the better team. I do not believe, and frankly getting sick of all these post putting all the blame on Ben. Don't get me wrong Ben was part but not all. Where was the Steelers #1 D? Where was the NFL's Defensive player of the year? Ben tossed a few bad passes, so did Rogers. Where Ben INT's his fault? Partly, but why didn't Wallace come back for the Ball and at least try to bat it down? Ben second interception was right on the money - great pass in a extremely small window, just a great play by the D-back on the packers. Last, did Ben fumble in the 4th quarter?

With all that said, I'm not trying to defend Ben, just pointing out that the blame need to be spread out and not focused entirely on Ben.




[QUOTE=Steelerz4Life;919455]First off, in regards to Super Bowl XLV, the better team did not win, it was just that Ben did everything he could to give the Packers the win. I could bring up how even Troy Aikman was wondering why the Packers were not being called for holding, but nevermind, we had a chance to win in the end and Ben choked.

pete74
02-09-2011, 11:43 AM
i agree ben didnt win us any super bowls but he was a key piece in the equation. steelers play as a team and nobody really stands out

quiggle
02-09-2011, 11:58 AM
Randle El has more QB highlights than Ben.

R2sojr
02-09-2011, 12:07 PM
Again, I hate the Patriots, but Big Ben is not even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Tom Brady. Like it or not, Brady is one of the all time greats, as where Ben is an above average QB at best who was carried to 2 Super Bowls. Like it or not, the Patriots won BECAUSE of Brady. Like it or not, the Steelers won 2 of their Super Bowl IN SPITE of Ben, not BECAUSE of Ben. It is just that simple.



Like it or not Brady won 2 Super Bowls because of his kicker. Not 2 min drives which Ben had. Vinateri misses those 2 kicks and Brady isnt even mentioned in this topic!!!

zulater
02-09-2011, 12:13 PM
I kind of missed those, I was born in 1993.


SH Rock

Ben threw 1 TD pass and 1 INT in 43. Warner, completely outperformed Ben.

Bullshit, Warner only played one good quarter.
Stats are for losers, which I'm sure you're very familiar with, being as you see one looking back at you every morning when your brush your tooth. :flap:

saveus1011
02-09-2011, 12:20 PM
I'm sorry guys, but Ben went from being Superman to me to being a rapist.

I'm not giving up on the team, I'm just still upset.

zulater
02-09-2011, 12:23 PM
I'm sorry guys, but Ben went from being Superman to me to being a rapist.

I'm not giving up on the team, I'm just still upset.

That's fair, and you just went from being a new poster, to a total ahole to me. :hatsoff:

quiggle
02-09-2011, 12:24 PM
I'm sorry you take what you read in the media for what it's worth. Ben being rapist to me is like believing some oily smelling, missing tooth guy saying he saw a ghost.

SteelCityMom
02-09-2011, 12:27 PM
I'm sorry you take what you read in the media for what it's worth. Ben being rapist to me is like believing some oily smelling, missing tooth guy saying he saw a ghost.

Yet you believe that Sanchez hooked up with a 17 year old because she facebooked that they flirted and posted a picture of a messy bedroom. :noidea:

quiggle
02-09-2011, 12:33 PM
Yet you believe that Sanchez hooked up with a 17 year old because she facebooked that they flirted and posted a picture of a messy bedroom. :noidea:

yes, she provided proof and Sanchez is doing what his coach does with feet videos, keeping mum so it's very true in fact. the media doesn't lie all the time.

SteelCityMom
02-09-2011, 12:36 PM
yes, she provided proof and Sanchez is doing what his coach does with feet videos, keeping mum so it's very true in fact. the media doesn't lie all the time.

:doh:

Never would a 17 year old girl lie on FB about flirting with and getting texts from a star athlete. Gotcha. Makes perfect sense.

quiggle
02-09-2011, 12:39 PM
it does, besides she went out publicly showing off about this so she is looking for the attention like the spoiled piece of slimy filth the youth are today.

SteelCityMom
02-09-2011, 12:44 PM
it does, besides she went out publicly showing off about this so she is looking for the attention like the spoiled piece of slimy filth the youth are today.

Here, let me get you a shovel for your argument.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EO_KEFhe1e8/S7axyUDJBNI/AAAAAAAACeo/hck2JOLP3rM/s1600/shovel.jpg


You do realize how stupid you sound right now, no? You're basically saying that a 17 year old (spoiled and rich) girl wouldn't lie to get attention.

Fail.

quiggle
02-09-2011, 12:48 PM
no, she's not lying go the the link that shows the photos. the proof is in the pudding.

SteelCityMom
02-09-2011, 12:53 PM
no, she's not lying go the the link that shows the photos. the proof is in the pudding.

I've seen the photo of a bed. The proof would be in the pudding if there was actual proof of who's bed it was.

Honestly, I really don't care either way who he or anyone else bangs. Not my problem, and I'm not a gossip wh.ore. I just think it's f-ing hilarious that you'll defend Ben in one breath and say that there's absolutely no way he sexually assaulted anyone, then know for fact that Sanchez did "something" with a 17 year old based on her FB updates and a couple of pics of a bed.

It's sad I had to spell it out that way to you.

To quote you:

I'm sorry you take what you read in the media for what it's worth

pete74
02-09-2011, 12:56 PM
all you guys tearing up on ben now will be the 1st to tell your friends how good he is when he gets his 1st 300 yard 3td game next year. i always said i didnt think ben is elite like manning, brady or probably rodgers but he is a key piece to our sucess.

quiggle
02-09-2011, 01:45 PM
I've seen the photo of a bed. The proof would be in the pudding if there was actual proof of who's bed it was.

Honestly, I really don't care either way who he or anyone else bangs. Not my problem, and I'm not a gossip wh.ore. I just think it's f-ing hilarious that you'll defend Ben in one breath and say that there's absolutely no way he sexually assaulted anyone, then know for fact that Sanchez did "something" with a 17 year old based on her FB updates and a couple of pics of a bed.

It's sad I had to spell it out that way to you.

To quote you:

it's fine, you're the type which nothing quenches you more than to have the last word, it's all good.

SteelCityMom
02-09-2011, 01:53 PM
it's fine, you're the type which nothing quenches you more than to have the last word, it's all good.

Actually, nothing quenches me more than an ice cold Coca-Cola. But that's a whole other topic.

It's a freaking message board guy, get used to people quoting you and posting after you when you type out stupid shit.

Is it or isn't it my last word...more breaking news on that later. :thumbsup:

quiggle
02-09-2011, 02:01 PM
that's fine then, in that case I will go sign over at another Steelers forum now just to prevent future friction between us. bye everyone else, it's been fun!

ebsteelers
02-09-2011, 02:03 PM
for some reason i doubt you'll be missed.

and im new here

SteelCityMom
02-09-2011, 02:06 PM
that's fine then, in that case I will go sign over at another Steelers forum now just to prevent future friction between us. bye everyone else, it's been fun!

k bye! :wave:

MattsMe
02-09-2011, 02:16 PM
for some reason i doubt you'll be missed.

and im new here

:chuckle:

You catch on quick.

kirklandrules
02-09-2011, 02:56 PM
i always said i didnt think ben is elite like manning, brady or probably rodgers but he is a key piece to our sucess.

I think Ben is an elite QB. What the hell is all this Ben talk about? So the guy had a bad game. Brady and Manning had bad games in January ... that really sucks. Ben had us watching our team in February. Name another QB that doesn't sh!t his pants when he knows Suggs is going to throttle him. Anyone you name won't include Brady or Manning, that's for sure. What other QB doesn't miss a down when his nose is sideways and has a broken foot? Again, not guys named Brady or Manning. So our QB didn't play his best and still kept them in it when the other team played almost a perfect game. When I see all this player bashing, I can only sit back and ask "Really?".

Steelerz4Life
02-09-2011, 05:42 PM
I'm sorry guys, but Ben went from being Superman to me to being a rapist.

I'm not giving up on the team, I'm just still upset.

Wow, now I think Ben is overrated, and there are at least 6 other QB who could easly do a much better job of running the Steelers offense than Ben, but to call him what you did, that is goin to far for me.

Yeah, he did embarass the Steelers off the field with those girls, but he was never convicted and there is no proof there was rape. That there is going too far.

pete74
02-09-2011, 06:46 PM
I think Ben is an elite QB. What the hell is all this Ben talk about? So the guy had a bad game. Brady and Manning had bad games in January ... that really sucks. Ben had us watching our team in February. Name another QB that doesn't sh!t his pants when he knows Suggs is going to throttle him. Anyone you name won't include Brady or Manning, that's for sure. What other QB doesn't miss a down when his nose is sideways and has a broken foot? Again, not guys named Brady or Manning. So our QB didn't play his best and still kept them in it when the other team played almost a perfect game. When I see all this player bashing, I can only sit back and ask "Really?".

of course you do

vasteeler
02-09-2011, 06:57 PM
I think Ben is an elite QB. What the hell is all this Ben talk about? So the guy had a bad game. Brady and Manning had bad games in January ... that really sucks. Ben had us watching our team in February. Name another QB that doesn't sh!t his pants when he knows Suggs is going to throttle him. Anyone you name won't include Brady or Manning, that's for sure. What other QB doesn't miss a down when his nose is sideways and has a broken foot? Again, not guys named Brady or Manning. So our QB didn't play his best and still kept them in it when the other team played almost a perfect game. When I see all this player bashing, I can only sit back and ask "Really?".

finally.....we have a winner :thumbsup:

mashsoccer37
02-09-2011, 07:01 PM
On OUR team... I would take Ben over any other QB in the entire league. Ben is a proven winner... he didn't win the last SB, but he's a winner. You don't get a team to the Super Bowl 3 times without being a winner.

Ben is what he is though, he's a very unconventional QB who thrives when the play breaks down... and on our team with our questionable O-Line he is the ideal QB. If I had our entire team and I had to pick ONE QB... it would be Ben.

But, if I had to pick one QB to build a team around, there's at least four (Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees) I'd pick over him and I would put him in the category with other very good QBs in (Ryan, Schaub).

Rick5895
02-09-2011, 07:17 PM
Super Bowl XL, 3rd and 26, Ben scrambles and throws a Pass to Ward to the 3 yard line for a first down, which leads to our first TD, Huge Play. On Randle El's TD pass, Ben made the Block to allow El to make the throw, once again huge play, both very instrumental in our win. But he had a bad stat line.

Super Bowl XLIII, The last drive to win the game startin at our 10 yard line. The numerous scrambles in the game, 1 which comes to mind is one to Heath to keep a scoring drive alive.

Super Bowl XLV even though we ost and Ben wasn't his best, he wasn't totally awful either. The pic six , his arm was hit as he threw, he made several plays running on a bad foot and injured knee. To start the comeback TD to ward, to get us to within 3 TD to Wallace, and nice option to El. In addition, although i have yet to see it confirmed, I beleive ben suffered a concussion on the hit by Raji in the second Q.

You people that are always quoting the stats try watching the game and everything that goes on with our QB during the game, he is tough, makes plays and blocks does whatever it takes to win. THIS IS NOT FANTASY FOOTBALL, don't watch it as though it was.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
02-09-2011, 07:19 PM
Super Bowl XL, 3rd and 26, Ben scrambles and throws a Pass to Ward to the 3 yard line for a first down, which leads to our first TD, Huge Play. On Randle El's TD pass, Ben made the Block to allow El to make the throw, once again huge play, both very instrumental in our win. But he had a bad stat line.

Super Bowl XLIII, The last drive to win the game startin at our 10 yard line. The numerous scrambles in the game, 1 which comes to mind is one to Heath to keep a scoring drive alive.

Super Bowl XLV even though we ost and Ben wasn't his best, he wasn't totally awful either. The pic six , his arm was hit as he threw, he made several plays running on a bad foot and injured knee. To start the comeback TD to ward, to get us to within 3 TD to Wallace, and nice option to El. In addition, although i have yet to see it confirmed, I beleive ben suffered a concussion on the hit by Raji in the second Q.

You people that are always quoting the stats try watching the game and everything that goes on with our QB during the game, he is tough, makes plays and blocks does whatever it takes to win. THIS IS NOT FANTASY FOOTBALL, don't watch it as though it was.

Quoted for truth...I swear some people don't bother to watch the game and then complain about Ben's stat line.

saveus1011
02-09-2011, 07:37 PM
Wow, now I think Ben is overrated, and there are at least 6 other QB who could easly do a much better job of running the Steelers offense than Ben, but to call him what you did, that is goin to far for me.

Yeah, he did embarass the Steelers off the field with those girls, but he was never convicted and there is no proof there was rape. That there is going too far.

He is overrated.

Look, you can call me an a-hole all you want, and all that. But the fact is, the Steelers have been a part of family for a while now and I will die bleeding black and gold.

But on Sunday? I lost a hero.

SteelCityMom
02-09-2011, 07:44 PM
He is overrated.

Look, you can call me an a-hole all you want, and all that. But the fact is, the Steelers have been a part of family for a while now and I will die bleeding black and gold.

But on Sunday? I lost a hero.\

And so what will you say if he wins another Superbowl? :noidea:

Also, you seem to ditch parts of your family pretty quick lol.

Dude had a bad game, come on down off the ledge. A lot of good to great QB's lose Superbowls. He's only freaking human.

TRH
02-09-2011, 07:53 PM
He is overrated.

Look, you can call me an a-hole all you want, and all that. But the fact is, the Steelers have been a part of family for a while now and I will die bleeding black and gold.

But on Sunday? I lost a hero.


So in other words Brady's overrated too, right? And Manning. Right? And Brees. Don't forget about him. He's overrated too.
Those players teams were all knocked out much earlier than we were and you could throw blame to all 3.

SH-Rock
02-09-2011, 07:54 PM
Super Bowl XL, 3rd and 26, Ben scrambles and throws a Pass to Ward to the 3 yard line for a first down, which leads to our first TD, Huge Play. On Randle El's TD pass, Ben made the Block to allow El to make the throw, once again huge play, both very instrumental in our win. But he had a bad stat line.

Super Bowl XLIII, The last drive to win the game startin at our 10 yard line. The numerous scrambles in the game, 1 which comes to mind is one to Heath to keep a scoring drive alive.

Super Bowl XLV even though we ost and Ben wasn't his best, he wasn't totally awful either. The pic six , his arm was hit as he threw, he made several plays running on a bad foot and injured knee. To start the comeback TD to ward, to get us to within 3 TD to Wallace, and nice option to El. In addition, although i have yet to see it confirmed, I beleive ben suffered a concussion on the hit by Raji in the second Q.

You people that are always quoting the stats try watching the game and everything that goes on with our QB during the game, he is tough, makes plays and blocks does whatever it takes to win. THIS IS NOT FANTASY FOOTBALL, don't watch it as though it was.

QFT

zulater
02-09-2011, 09:19 PM
So in other words Brady's overrated too, right? And Manning. Right? And Brees. Don't forget about him. He's overrated too.
Those players teams were all knocked out much earlier than we were and you could throw blame to all 3.

Look back at Marino, Elway, Kelly, Favre, even Staubach and Unitas, they all had bad playoff games at some point in their career. Bad turnovers, poor throws, you name it, if you play the game long enough you're going to get humbled occasionally.

JEFF4i
02-09-2011, 09:32 PM
Give the Packers there due. Yes Ben threw 20 rating under his season average, but...

Jay Cutler threw 55 under his season average, and...

Matt Ryan also threw 20 under his season average, and...

Michael Vick also threw 20 under his season average.

Stats are a funny thing, they can make you say everything you want them to. I'm right, you're right, based off of what stats we say.

Bottom line is, maybe if Wallace helps out Ben a bit and comes down with that pass, Ben finds a rookie deep, 3 plays later we're in the endzone for the go ahead and win. None of this exists. Wallace didn't. Ben threw two picks. Mendy fumbled. I can go on...

Ben's a great QB, I'm glad he's a Steeler, and you all, well, are wrong.

Steelers17
02-09-2011, 10:15 PM
Saaaweeet! Another Ben bashing thread!!!

:coffee:

Ban this infidel into a uniformity of homogenized right thinking individuals! :tt03:

tube517
02-09-2011, 10:15 PM
He is overrated.

Look, you can call me an a-hole all you want, and all that. But the fact is, the Steelers have been a part of family for a while now and I will die bleeding black and gold.

But on Sunday? I lost a hero.

So, you would rather he have a 158.6 passer rating and be 9-10 in the playoffs?

There is a reason why we are spoiled because we have won the most Super Bowls, still. Yeah, this was a tough loss and I'm still having a hard time getting over it.

This is a different era now. The 70's are gone. Keeping the same players is hard, injuries are a death blow now. Winning 4 SB's in 6 yrs will probably never happen again. Continuity is what made the Steelers great in the 70's and they try their damndest to keep the team together but it ain't easy.

Ben will be fine. Would you rather lose in the AFCC game 4 times again, at home? Would you rather have another Mark Malone or Kent Graham as QB's? I don't, and I lived through that crap.

saveus1011
02-09-2011, 10:24 PM
So, you would rather he have a 158.6 passer rating and be 9-10 in the playoffs?

There is a reason why we are spoiled because we have won the most Super Bowls, still. Yeah, this was a tough loss and I'm still having a hard time getting over it.

This is a different era now. The 70's are gone. Keeping the same players is hard, injuries are a death blow now. Winning 4 SB's in 6 yrs will probably never happen again. Continuity is what made the Steelers great in the 70's and they try their damndest to keep the team together but it ain't easy.

Ben will be fine. Would you rather lose in the AFCC game 4 times again, at home? Would you rather have another Mark Malone or Kent Graham as QB's? I don't, and I lived through that crap.

I lived through Malone and Brister, and O'Donnell and Kordell and Maddox. I am happy we have a GOOD quarterback who can at least get us here every now and again.

And this is coming from someone who defended him to EVERYONE this past off-season.

Wallace108
02-09-2011, 10:31 PM
I am happy we have a GOOD quarterback who can at least get us here every now and again.

Three times in six years is "every now and again"? :huh:

SoCalFan
02-09-2011, 11:00 PM
The thing I like about Ben,you can see he really wants to improve when he screws up.He owns up to his faults,I gaurantee his doubters will see him raise the Lombardi once again.Maybe multiple times!!!

7steelers
02-09-2011, 11:11 PM
Yeah I am starting to question bens mental state I think he's to ****y he is a good strong athelete but if he thinks he could just walk on the field in the superbowl and put the ball in the air and win he has another thing coming I dont know if eating humble pie is doing any good.

tube517
02-09-2011, 11:25 PM
He doesn't win the Super Bowl every year. Remember, he is "overrated" :jerkit:

Three times in six years is "every now and again"? :huh:

BGSU A Dub
02-09-2011, 11:33 PM
:blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::b lah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:

tony hipchest
02-09-2011, 11:33 PM
wait a minute...

5PhYbGx-lMg


this thread is supposed to be about the "real Big Ben".

:coffee:

tony hipchest
02-09-2011, 11:37 PM
Poe71wE8cgM&feature=related

tony hipchest
02-09-2011, 11:39 PM
2meowzEwIdw&NR=1

:jawdrop:


whew... good thing that was just a fake big ben.

(tricked y'all, didnt i?) :chuckle:

heres the real big ben-

y57GT1xAyl8&feature=related

BGSU A Dub
02-09-2011, 11:42 PM
Well played Tony :thumbsup: :applaudit:

saveus1011
02-10-2011, 12:02 AM
Actually Tony, this is how I really feel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_ULg4RSy5Y

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1b/Superman75.jpg

LVSteelersfan
02-10-2011, 12:05 AM
Hey Op

You are:

http://copper-desert-llc.tripod.com/fail_boat.jpg

btaylor179
02-10-2011, 04:17 AM
yea i agree bens an average qb......but if you put brady behind our weak pathetic o line he wouldn't be any good at all because he cant scramble

zsheik22
02-10-2011, 05:57 AM
Im more than confident with Ben back there eventhough he does poop the bed sometimes. It's nice you forgot the drive against Arizona that he led for the win, and the rushing TD against the seahawks. That helped your argument not putting those in there, lol.

Wallace108
02-10-2011, 08:21 AM
yea i agree bens an average qb......but if you put brady behind our weak pathetic o line he wouldn't be any good at all because he cant scramble

If Ben was just an average QB, which I don't think he is, could it be because of our "weak pathetic o line"? Imagine if Ben played behind the Colts' or Patriots' O line and actually had time to scan the field and find open receivers. What would his stats look like then? Conversely, like you pointed out, what if Manning or Brady had to play behind OUR O line and had to shed off tacklers before they could even begin looking downfield?

The line played well in the SB, and Ben just had a bad game, as ALL great QBs have from time to time.

This thread is ridiculous. Give Ben a line that can protect him and an OC that understands situational playcalling and Ben's numbers greatly improve.

steelerchad
02-10-2011, 08:56 AM
Yeah. Ben didn't have a great day, but he was far from terrible. The pick 6 killed us but the rush came up the middle and hit his arm. It happens. If he had only thrown the 1 pick with 2 TD's and was 25-40 and we won instead we'd be saying he had a pretty good game. In reality his QB rating was 77.9 which is very average. And this against a SB caliber defense. Not really bad. Rodgers was lights out and that is the real problem. We made Jordy Freakin Nelson look like a HOF'er.

FanSince72
02-10-2011, 09:23 AM
Yeah. Ben didn't have a great day, but he was far from terrible. The pick 6 killed us but the rush came up the middle and hit his arm. It happens. If he had only thrown the 1 pick with 2 TD's and was 25-40 and we won instead we'd be saying he had a pretty good game. In reality his QB rating was 77.9 which is very average. And this against a SB caliber defense. Not really bad. Rodgers was lights out and that is the real problem. We made Jordy Freakin Nelson look like a HOF'er.

Thank you!

If we had won, all we'd be saying was, "it isn't always pretty, but Ben gets it done", or that "It's not about style points" and all that crap.

Your first sentence said it all: "Ben didn't have a great day"

That's really all there is to it.

(That and an O-line that's held together with duct tape and twist-ties)

saveus1011
02-10-2011, 11:07 AM
Has Dana White announced that Anderson Silva will fight all of the Packers yet?

cloppbeast
02-10-2011, 11:54 AM
This thread is ridiculous. Give Ben a line that can protect him and an OC that understands situational playcalling and Ben's numbers greatly improve.

Gerry Dulac reports (I read it here (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=70539)) that "Roethlisberger has been given almost total command of the offense under Arians and has developed a close personal relationship with him and his family."

I guess you can blame Arians for giving control of the offense to Ben, but Ben deserves some of the blame for the play-calls as well, since he's the one in control. Maybe we need another OC who will take control back from Ben. :noidea:

As far as the o-line is concerned, Ben's wasn't worse than Manning's this year. Even with a poor offensive line, Peyton still only took 16 sacks this season. Manning makes his o-line look good by getting rid of the ball; Ben makes his o-line look bad by holding onto the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Steelers have the greatest offensive line. There are times when Ben gets sacked through no fault of his own. For the most part he gets sacked because he holds onto the ball too long.

Anyway, Ben is a good QB, but he's not the greatest. He uses his physical tools to his advantage and he gets the job done with the help of a great defense. He's not to the caliber of the greats, (I'd say he's about 5th best in the league now) despite the fact that he played on 2 Super Bowl winning teams. But he's definitely good.

kirklandrules
02-10-2011, 12:32 PM
Anyway, Ben is a good QB, but he's not the greatest. He uses his physical tools to his advantage and he gets the job done with the help of a great defense. He's not to the caliber of the greats, (I'd say he's about 5th best in the league now) despite the fact that he played on 2 Super Bowl winning teams. But he's definitely good.

I'd say he was the second best QB this year. He lost to Rogers in the SB. I don't care about stats and all that bull. I only care about results ... and Ben led the team to the SB where they lost to the Rogers led Pack. Manning was a first round loser this year. Oh, by the way, don't forget that Ben takes responsibility for losses.If you remember when the Steelers went to Indy and beat the Colts on their way to the SB a few years ago, Manning threw his O-line under the bus after the game when he stated "We had some protection problems". What a d-bag! I've thought nothing good about the guy since then.

cloppbeast
02-10-2011, 12:45 PM
I'd say he was the second best QB this year. He lost to Rogers in the SB. I don't care about stats and all that bull. I only care about results ... and Ben led the team to the SB where they lost to the Rogers led Pack. Manning was a first round loser this year.

I don't agree with the premise. The team that wins doesn't necessarily have the best quarterback.

The Steelers were better than the Colts, but Ben isn't better than Manning.

Oh, by the way, don't forget that Ben takes responsibility for losses.If you remember when the Steelers went to Indy and beat the Colts on their way to the SB a few years ago, Manning threw his O-line under the bus after the game when he stated "We had some protection problems". What a d-bag! I've thought nothing good about the guy since then.

I give credit to Ben for taking responsibility for the loss.

As far as Manning is concerned, well you aren't considering the whole picture. He was asked a specific question regarding the pass protection against the Steelers. His answer was, "We had some protection problems" - that was just stating the obvious. He did not call out anybody with that statment. He never even said who's fault it was.

kirklandrules
02-10-2011, 04:21 PM
I don't agree with the premise. The team that wins doesn't necessarily have the best quarterback.
I was expecting a Trent Dilfer reference here.

The Steelers were better than the Colts, but Ben isn't better than Manning.

And that's where opinions lead to disagreement. I would take Ben over Manning because Ben won't tinkle his pants when he gets hit. How many times did we see Manning fall down to avoid contact this year. Hell, he fell down on the 3 yard line instead of getting tackled from behind on a TD run.

I give credit to Ben for taking responsibility for the loss.

As far as Manning is concerned, well you aren't considering the whole picture. He was asked a specific question regarding the pass protection against the Steelers. His answer was, "We had some protection problems" - that was just stating the obvious. He did not call out anybody with that statment. He never even said who's fault it was.
You might want to double check his response because he very clearly threw his line under the bus with his comment. The only reason it didn't get max exposure is because his kicker made headlines throwing Manning under the bus. You can find plenty of links by googling it, but thought this one was a funny way to remember what an ass he was ...
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/060116

zulater
02-10-2011, 06:12 PM
Gerry Dulac reports (I read it here (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=70539)) that "Roethlisberger has been given almost total command of the offense under Arians and has developed a close personal relationship with him and his family."

I guess you can blame Arians for giving control of the offense to Ben, but Ben deserves some of the blame for the play-calls as well, since he's the one in control. Maybe we need another OC who will take control back from Ben. :noidea:

As far as the o-line is concerned, Ben's wasn't worse than Manning's this year. Even with a poor offensive line, Peyton still only took 16 sacks this season. Manning makes his o-line look good by getting rid of the ball; Ben makes his o-line look bad by holding onto the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Steelers have the greatest offensive line. There are times when Ben gets sacked through no fault of his own. For the most part he gets sacked because he holds onto the ball too long.

Anyway, Ben is a good QB, but he's not the greatest. He uses his physical tools to his advantage and he gets the job done with the help of a great defense. He's not to the caliber of the greats, (I'd say he's about 5th best in the league now) despite the fact that he played on 2 Super Bowl winning teams. But he's definitely good.

Who's to say you need the greatest qb to win the Super Bowl anyway, perhaps a guy like Ben, someone a notch below the greats is easiar to win with? Maybe the reason quartbacks like Fouts, Favre, and Marino never won a Super bowl is because they become too much the focal point of the team? I know Marino never had a great back, but maybe it was because he was too impatient to feed the running game to actually develop a back? So put Ben in the category with Phil Simms, or Len Dawson if you want. It seems to work regardless.

Danny136200
02-10-2011, 06:29 PM
Again, I hate the Patriots, but Big Ben is not even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Tom Brady. Like it or not, Brady is one of the all time greats, as where Ben is an above average QB at best who was carried to 2 Super Bowls. Like it or not, the Patriots won BECAUSE of Brady. Like it or not, the Steelers won 2 of their Super Bowl IN SPITE of Ben, not BECAUSE of Ben. It is just that simple.

You know, something funny happened this decade. When the Patriots had a great D, they won super bowls. When all of their starts either retired or left via free agency, they were still a pretty good regular season team, but they can never get it done in the playoffs. Why? because Defense wins championships.
Moron.

Atlanta Dan
02-10-2011, 06:31 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Steelers have the greatest offensive line. There are times when Ben gets sacked through no fault of his own. For the most part he gets sacked because he holds onto the ball too long.

Anyway, Ben is a good QB, but he's not the greatest. He uses his physical tools to his advantage and he gets the job done with the help of a great defense. He's not to the caliber of the greats, (I'd say he's about 5th best in the league now) despite the fact that he played on 2 Super Bowl winning teams. But he's definitely good.

Sounds like you are describing Bradshaw - he had an exemplary 1978 but otherwise was never at the top of the heap with regard to passing stats - Staubach was consistently rated above him throughout the decade, while within the AFC Stabler and Anderson had better stats through the mid-70s while Bert Jones and Fouts had better reps as the decade closed -

If stats were what counted Ken Anderson and Ken Stabler would be in Canton rather than Bradshaw - assuming getting to Canton is the definition of great, winning is a major if not the major factor that defines the the success of a QB, unless you consider fantasy football to be real football

NYT today makes a pretty compelling case why Roethlisberger is Canton bound

Ben Roethlisberger and the Hall of Fame

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/10/ben-roethlisberger-and-the-hall-of-fame/?ref=sports

Velvet Elvis
02-10-2011, 06:31 PM
Who's to say you need the greatest qb to win the Super Bowl anyway, perhaps a guy like Ben, someone a notch below the greats is easiar to win with? Maybe the reason quartbacks like Fouts, Favre, and Marino never won a Super bowl is because they become too much the focal point of the team? I know Marino never had a great back, but maybe it was because he was too impatient to feed the running game to actually develop a back? So put Ben in the category with Phil Simms, or Len Dawson if you want. It seems to work regardless.

For your information, Farve has won a Super Bowl. :toofunny::toofunny:

pete74
02-10-2011, 06:32 PM
Who's to say you need the greatest qb to win the Super Bowl anyway, perhaps a guy like Ben, someone a notch below the greats is easiar to win with? Maybe the reason quartbacks like Fouts, Favre, and Marino never won a Super bowl is because they become too much the focal point of the team? I know Marino never had a great back, but maybe it was because he was too impatient to feed the running game to actually develop a back? So put Ben in the category with Phil Simms, or Len Dawson if you want. It seems to work regardless.

Favre has a ring

zulater
02-10-2011, 06:36 PM
Favre has a ring

Oops, yeah, with all those NFC title game interceptions in the last few years I sorta forgot he won one way back when. :doh:

zulater
02-10-2011, 06:37 PM
For your information, Farve has won a Super Bowl. :toofunny::toofunny:

Doesn't invalidate my point though.

vasteeler
02-10-2011, 06:43 PM
wow just wow. some of you guys just dont get it

to the guy who said his hero died on sunday:doh::doh::doh:

Velvet Elvis
02-10-2011, 06:44 PM
Oops, yeah, with all those NFC title game interceptions in the last few years I sorta forgot he won one way back when. :doh:

I hear ya. Same way I will remember Ben for having a terrible game against the Jets in the AFCC game and laying another egg in a Super Bowl.

zulater
02-10-2011, 06:48 PM
I hear ya. Same way I will remember Ben for having a terrible game against the Jets in the AFCC game and laying another egg in a Super Bowl.

If that's what you think fine. But my memories of Ben in the AFC title game are how he helped build what turned out to be an insurmountable lead, with both his arm and legs,, and how he made the plays neccessary at the end to preserve that lead.

MattsMe
02-10-2011, 06:52 PM
If stats were what counted Ken Anderson and Ken Stabler would be in Canton rather than Bradshaw - assuming getting to Canton is the definition of great, winning is a major if not the major factor that defines the the success of a QB, unless you consider fantasy football to be real football


You managed to distill this entire argument into one single line. Aside from the fans who have personal issues with Ben, (which is strange because none of them actually know him personally) you have a group of relatively young fantasy football junkies, spoon fed by the media into believing that 300+ yards per game is the key to a great quarterback.

That accounts for about 98% of those in the anti-Ben camp. The other 2% are best left alone, as I don't think it's fair to make fun of the mentally challenged.

FanSince72
02-10-2011, 08:00 PM
You managed to distill this entire argument into one single line. Aside from the fans who have personal issues with Ben, (which is strange because none of them actually know him personally) you have a group of relatively young fantasy football junkies, spoon fed by the media into believing that 300+ yards per game is the key to a great quarterback.

That accounts for about 98% of those in the anti-Ben camp. The other 2% are best left alone, as I don't think it's fair to make fun of the mentally challenged.


NAILED IT!

Man, I wish I'd written that.

MattsMe
02-10-2011, 08:09 PM
NAILED IT!

Man, I wish I'd written that.

You can say you did, for only $29.95. :chuckle:

Atlanta Dan
02-11-2011, 10:06 AM
John Clayton comments about "the real Big Ben"

Although I didn't see it personally, the image of Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger sitting alone at his locker crying after Sunday night's loss says a lot. Before this season, teammates wondered about Roethlisberger's dedication. They don't worry about it anymore. He cares. Before this season, he wasn't dedicated in his offseason training and, although he cared about winning, he wasn't the best teammate. His four-game suspension made him grow up as a player and a teammate. He takes out his offensive linemen on Tuesdays. He's more studious of his game plans. The postgame emotion shows he put his heart and soul into this season, and I would suspect he would be even more dedicated next year.

Would it be too quick to anoint Aaron Rodgers the fourth-best quarterback in the league? I don't think so. Rodgers' performance in the postseason probably moved him ahead of Philip Rivers of the Chargers and Roethlisberger in the league's quarterback hierarchy. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees are still my top three. No, I'm not going to put Rodgers ahead of Brees based on this season, but Rodgers edges out Rivers because he's taken his team deeper into the playoffs and has a Super Bowl ring. Roethlisberger has one more Super Bowl ring than Rodgers, but he's also had two off games in Super Bowls.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6108379

Still lots of love for Brees, who did not have a lights out 2010 (#12 passer rating with 22 picks - Rodgers was #2 and Roethlisberger was ranked #5) . To the extent Brees gets a pass because he was injured (knee) this past season so were Rodgers ansd Roethlisberger - once the media imposes a good or bad stereotype on a player it sticks wheher or not current perfomance supports it

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/seasontype/2

steelerstitch
02-11-2011, 11:12 AM
I'm tired of people bitching about Ben. I think he does a damn good job on the field 99 percent of the time, He calls the plays he is given. I just hope tat he has had an eye opener in his off field judgement thats were I am sick. Bad publicity and he should know better.

steelerstitch
02-11-2011, 11:20 AM
I am sick of people that compare him to Tom Brady or as I call him the ****** in the dress, i loved Brady's game last year were he turned and ran the ball in the wrong direction to keep from being hit throwing the ball over his shoulder as he went. Brady can throw the ball to his receivers but thats all he does

Buddha Bus
02-11-2011, 11:35 AM
First off, in regards to Super Bowl XLV, the better team did not win,

I stopped reading your post right there. Between that and the title of your "thread", I knew you had some kind of brain-to-fingers disconnect when typing. You sound like John f*cking Harbaugh for Chrissakes! SERIOUSLY? The better team DID in fact win that day. The Packers did what they needed to do to win that game and the Steelers lost AS A TEAM, not just Big Ben. Name one facet of our team that really played well enough to win that game. I dare you to try to come up with it. It doesn't exsist. In no way, shape or form did we deserve to win that day as a team. We failed in all aspects.

The only other thing I can say is...


http://upload.drarok.com/uploads/8557-facepalm.jpg


And to quiggle, don't let the door hit you in the Wonder Woman Underoos on the way out. You won't be missed. :wave:

Set-Man
02-11-2011, 01:28 PM
Ben is not a stand in the pocket passer. He never was and won't be. He fits the epitome of the Steelers team which is smashmouth and sometimes ugly. We have to have a qb like that to fit our offensive line. Only once did he have time to throw deep (to Wallace) and he didn't even come close.
He excels in eluding defenders and hitting a receiver well past the planned routes.

I am happy with 2 SB wins, 1 loss with him. Did you see how Rodgers threaded passes to receivers. gay actually had awesome coverage on the TD play. He just didn't turn his head.

Why does everybody always want to categorize players as winners or losers?
All I can say is that he has gotten us to 3 SB's. Yes we lost one but it was a team loss. Anybody fail to recognize how many games he won us by rallying the troops?

Steelerz4Life
02-12-2011, 04:46 PM
I stopped reading your post right there.

That's ok. There are alot of people out there with ADD, don't feel bad. I'll just stop replying at this point so I don't lose you.

Wallace108
02-13-2011, 03:59 AM
That's ok. There are alot of people out there with ADD, don't feel bad. I'll just stop replying at this point so I don't lose you.

No, don't stop ... it's just getting interesting. :popcorn:

pete74
02-13-2011, 04:59 AM
i cant understand how anyone can say the better team lost. Green Bay played far superior and we were lucky we stayed in the game till the end. we couldnt throw the ball as acurate as them and our defense couldnt stop them. the best team won the superbowl this year.

no need to complain or make up excuses, the game is over and we lost. we lost to a great team. i have always said i felt Aaron Rodgers will someday be known as the best QB to ever play the game and he tore us up.

Buddha Bus
02-13-2011, 02:23 PM
That's ok. There are alot of people out there with ADD, don't feel bad. I'll just stop replying at this point so I don't lose you.

And in this case ADD stands for Absolute Dumb-ass Detection and my Spidey sense is tingling off the charts, moron. It has nothing to do with not having an attention deficiency, but rather the super-ability to rapidly identify a complete blithering idiot asshat with no common sense and a severe disconnect with reality. There was no reason to read any further into your silly diatribe beyond that point because you had very succinctly proven yourself to be as dumb as a bag of broken hammers in a mere 13 words. You should be proud of yourself for being able to pull that off so quickly and effectively so as not to waste people's valuable time reading your drivel.


Thank you for not further subjecting everyone to your long winded rambling stupidity. The board is much smarter for your stellar efforts. :thumbsup:

tony hipchest
02-13-2011, 02:34 PM
i cant understand how anyone can say the better team lost. Green Bay played far superior and we were lucky we stayed in the game till the end. we couldnt throw the ball as acurate as them and our defense couldnt stop them. the best team won the superbowl this year.

no need to complain or make up excuses, the game is over and we lost. we lost to a great team. i have always said i felt Aaron Rodgers will someday be known as the best QB to ever play the game and he tore us up.

the 49ers played far superior when they beat the chargers.

dallas played far superior when they beat the bills.

every team that beat the broncos in their 1st 3 sb's played far superior.

the packers certainly werent far superior, and the only "great" team i saw on sunday was the one who had been in 3 of the past 6 sb's.

:noidea:

a team who cant even run the ball or prevent the opposition's offense from scoring 25 points, after taking the ball away 3 times, is FAR from great.

:helmet:

Atlanta Dan
02-13-2011, 02:53 PM
I believe Green Bay was the better team (Steelers did not put together a full game in the playoffs and were 2-4 against playoff teams in the 2010 regular season - that is a body of work that can be judged as a team that admirably overachieved))

But any team that needed to win the last game of the season to make the playoffs as a wildcard and has a history of letting teams back into playoff games in the second half presumptively is not a great team - at least not yet - Green Bay is a young team that might grow into greatness if Rodgers history of concussions and the salary cap do not derail them but it is tough to string together multiple championships given the way the NFL is structured

Great teams are the 1978 Steelers, 1989 49ers and the early 90s Cowboys that flattened the opposition in the playoffs

"A lot of teams have won one in a row." - John Wooden

LW56
02-13-2011, 06:10 PM
I stopped reading your post right there. Between that and the title of your "thread", I knew you had some kind of brain-to-fingers disconnect when typing. You sound like John f*cking Harbaugh for Chrissakes! SERIOUSLY? The better team DID in fact win that day. The Packers did what they needed to do to win that game and the Steelers lost AS A TEAM, not just Big Ben. Name one facet of our team that really played well enough to win that game. I dare you to try to come up with it. It doesn't exsist. In no way, shape or form did we deserve to win that day as a team. We failed in all aspects.



Exactly.

The Pack was the better team THAT DAY, and they deserved to win. The OP was only suggesting the Steelers are a better team overall and I agree. Without the turnovers, we win. Had we got whipped by a superior team, I, and many other Steeler fans would have accepted it and moved on. Instead, we are lamenting over the fact we shoulda, coulda, woulda won. This wasn't a 55-10 whipping the 49'ers laid on the Broncos.

What I find stupid is that many on this board suggest the OP be banned or to suggest he go look for another team because he is critical of Big Ben. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and part of being a fan is being critical of your team.

I like Big Ben.
Why? Because he fits our system, and this franchise hasn't had a decent QB since Bradshaw, so I'm not complaining.

Is Ben an elite QB? Hell no. Elite QB's are pretty. Ben at times looks elite, and other times he looks like a complete buffoon...but as long as he keeps taking us to Super Bowls, I'll take the big, tough, scrappy, buffoon any day.

SoCalFan
02-13-2011, 08:24 PM
the 49ers played far superior when they beat the chargers.

dallas played far superior when they beat the bills.

every team that beat the broncos in their 1st 3 sb's played far superior.

the packers certainly werent far superior, and the only "great" team i saw on sunday was the one who had been in 3 of the past 6 sb's.

:noidea:

a team who cant even run the ball or prevent the opposition's offense from scoring 25 points, after taking the ball away 3 times, is FAR from great.

:helmet:I agree 100%...Via con dios!!!

CargoJon
02-14-2011, 12:16 AM
Can't believe this thread is still alive and 15 pages long.

SH-Rock
02-14-2011, 12:25 AM
Can't believe this thread is still alive and 15 pages long.
:sofunny: Thanks for making it 16

CargoJon
02-14-2011, 01:06 AM
:sofunny: Thanks for making it 16

I know somebody was going to say that. :chuckle:

gostillerz
02-15-2011, 01:03 AM
How will Ben's impending marriage affect his play? (just keepin it alive, lol)

BGSU A Dub
02-15-2011, 01:07 AM
How will Ben's impending marriage affect his play? (just keepin it alive, lol)

His wedding ring will be made of hyptochroniktiumblastphroia which will allow him to see into the future and which wide reciever will be open 6.32 seconds before it happens. It will also warn him when a defender is within two feet of him and tell him how to escape the pressure. Oh, AND it will +7 to all attributes of the linemen.

I'm serious.

Wallace108
02-15-2011, 01:11 AM
His wedding ring will be made of hyptochroniktiumblastphroia which will allow him to see into the future and which wide reciever will be open 6.32 seconds before it happens. It will also warn him when a defender is within two feet of him and tell him how to escape the pressure. Oh, AND it will +7 to all attributes of the linemen.

I'm serious.

I'll be happy if it just keeps him out of college bars. :chuckle:

BGSU A Dub
02-15-2011, 01:15 AM
I'll be happy if it just keeps him out of college bars. :chuckle:

He can go to the college bars all he wants- as long as his wife is there, as long as Kemo is holding a 500 watt spotlight on him, and Sep is holding a bed pan or large pail(so he doens't have to go to the bathroom).