PDA

View Full Version : Question for Arians Haters


MaineSteelerFan
02-09-2011, 05:46 PM
I will first start out in saying I not his biggest fan and that I understand peoples frustration. However, at this point in Ben career would it be wise to go to a new system? Also, who would we get to replace him?

TRH
02-09-2011, 05:49 PM
well.....we have a great QB and some other great personnel but we die on horrendous play calling. The offense can't get much worse. No reason with the all-star type personnel we have (Mendenhall, Wallace, Miller, Ben, etc) that we can't be putting up more points.
What are we going to do? Go from scoring 17 ponts a game to 7?

I think its a move Tomlin has to really consider.

PhantomJB93
02-09-2011, 05:53 PM
Hire nobody and let Ben run his own "Peyton Manning" offense.

I'm serious.

4xSBChamps
02-09-2011, 06:17 PM
I don't consider myself a 'hater' of anybody from the Organization

I will first start out in saying I not his biggest fan and that I understand peoples frustration. However, at this point in Ben career would it be wise to go to a new system? Also, who would we get to replace him?

'IF' we are going to make a change, let's hope any possible replacement will realize if you are shoving the football down your opponent's throat via the run... just had a 6-play / all-run 50-yard drive that resulted in a TD, cutting a deficit to 21-17 midway through the 3rd quarter... and your OL (though thought to be depleted by injury) is firing-out & blowing the defenders off the line-of-scrimmage... defenders who have shown neither the ability nor the desire to stop the running game and force us to throw...

... this isn't the time to be twice-as-cute as you need to be:
dance wit' the one that brung ya

Curtain_of_Steel
02-09-2011, 06:41 PM
Phantom: right on, give Ben more flexibility to change things up, some no huddles etc.

What no huddles? thats unheard of, lol

theplatypus
02-09-2011, 06:43 PM
I don't consider myself a 'hater' of anybody from the Organization



'IF' we are going to make a change, let's hope any possible replacement will realize if you are shoving the football down your opponent's throat via the run... just had a 6-play / all-run 50-yard drive that resulted in a TD, cutting a deficit to 21-17 midway through the 3rd quarter... and your OL (though thought to be depleted by injury) is firing-out & blowing the defenders off the line-of-scrimmage... defenders who have shown neither the ability nor the desire to stop the running game and force us to throw...

... this isn't the time to be twice-as-cute as you need to be:
dance wit' the one that brung ya


They tried, Mendy fumbled on 1st down.

Steelerz4Life
02-09-2011, 06:53 PM
I do not hate Arians but here is my opinion of him. If we can get someone better, go for it. I would rate him as average, he is better than some people think. We could do a lot worse at OC than Arians. I think he is average.

What people are not taking into account is that he has a QB that holds on to the ball too long and who can not make quick reads like a Brady, Manning, Rogers or other top QBs.

I am not defending Arians, but all he can do is design and call the plays. From what I have seen, he is average. What I did not like was his "we do not attack people" comment. THat was not good. But, until we find someone better, might as well stay with him.

Fire Arians
02-09-2011, 07:04 PM
i don't think we need to change 'the system' much at all. what we need is a new PHILOSOPHY.

i don't think we should change the playbook drastically, but by god, I want someone in charge who will make gametime adjustments and attack weaknesses according to what the defense is giving us. THIS is what needs to change. Arians time and time again can't seem to get over his own ego and won't change, and I think that's part of the problem. He needs to go.

and I disagree with he's average. he's below average. We have a lot of talent on offense. a HOF quarterback and a pro bowl caliber running back. How we are in the middle of the pack in total offense considering the talent we have, is inexcusable.

RosettaStoned
02-09-2011, 07:28 PM
They tried, Mendy fumbled on 1st down.

It was second down. Regardless, Ben threw 2 picks and it didn't stop him from calling pass after pass.

FanSince72
02-09-2011, 07:38 PM
I'm not sure if it's Arians or just the whole "Steelers Football" mythos.

To me, the team seems as if part of it wants to be the old run oriented "power" football team and the other part wants to be a more modern, West Coast style pass-first offense.

I honestly think that if Arians or whoever ends up being the OC would just sit down a watch a season's worth of New England game film, they'd understand what we could really be.

Say what you will about Belichick, but he doesn't cast himself or his team into any mold and he adapts his entire style of play --- not just his play calling --- to whatever team he's facing. What I mean is that if he's facing a team with a weak pass defense, he doesn't just call more pass plays but he designs specific TYPES of pass plays to exploit specific weaknesses and even specific packages and personnel. It's a whole philosophy designed for just that one team.

Then on another Sunday, he'll show up with a completely redesigned offense and call 45 running plays --- again designed specifically for a particular opponent.

It's very much a Chameleon approach.

I think what I'm trying to say is that we need to become more versatile and more specialized and design offenses not just for the season or for an image, but for each game; a specialized "designer" approach, if you will.

I think the era of team identity based on one style or another is gone and now it's more about dialing in very specific approaches to each type of team we meet sort of like the way there are "Apps" for everything today. I don't know if Arians or even Tomlin would go for something like that, but it works pretty good for Belichick more often than not and whether you like him or hate him, you have to admire his success.

sharkweek
02-09-2011, 07:42 PM
It was second down. Regardless, Ben threw 2 picks and it didn't stop him from calling pass after pass.

You don't give up on a QB like Ben after two picks, especially after both of which were the result of the defense forcing the situation more than Ben making bad plays and playing terribly.

Ben is a proven winner, I'm willing to go all or nothing on his arm and play-making ability.

We won XLIII on Ben's arm after losing the lead we had most of the game, why not here where we were losing the entire way?

RosettaStoned
02-09-2011, 07:46 PM
You don't give up on a QB like Ben after two picks, especially after both of which were the result of the defense forcing the situation more than Ben making bad plays and playing terribly.

Ben is a proven winner, I'm willing to go all or nothing on his arm and play-making ability.

We won XLIII on Ben's arm after losing the lead we had most of the game, why not here where we were losing the entire way?

Because we were running the ball down their throats and they couldn't stop it? They had the 18th ranked rush defense, and their strength was pass defense. We were having great success running the ball.

vasteeler
02-09-2011, 07:47 PM
some of you guys are nuts. we lost the superbowl, move on. we still have a great team. sure ben threw two picks. one of them would have been a td if his arm had not been hit.

spoiled freakin brats

Neil-Still-Rules-14
02-09-2011, 07:49 PM
Because we were running the ball down their throats and they couldn't stop it? They had the 18th ranked rush defense, and their strength was pass defense. We were having great success running the ball.

Lol it sure looked like they stopped it when they popped the ball out of Mendenhall's hands...

Rick5895
02-09-2011, 08:22 PM
i don't think we need to change 'the system' much at all. what we need is a new PHILOSOPHY.

i don't think we should change the playbook drastically, but by god, I want someone in charge who will make gametime adjustments and attack weaknesses according to what the defense is giving us. THIS is what needs to change. Arians time and time again can't seem to get over his own ego and won't change, and I think that's part of the problem. He needs to go.

and I disagree with he's average. he's below average. We have a lot of talent on offense. a HOF quarterback and a pro bowl caliber running back. How we are in the middle of the pack in total offense considering the talent we have, is inexcusable.

Well said.

RosettaStoned
02-09-2011, 08:25 PM
Lol it sure looked like they stopped it when they popped the ball out of Mendenhall's hands...

Not anymore than they stopped the passed when Collins was diving into the endzone. Running the ball got us back in the game.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
02-09-2011, 08:26 PM
Ok to be honest, I liked Arians' SB gameplan a lot. The offense was driving up and down the field...they were just turning the ball over before they could score (and I don't think you can fault Arians for this). This and the fact that the QB Option for 2 was one of the cooler plays I've seen in a while. Arians is getting very very good with catching the other team off guard in the red zone.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
02-09-2011, 08:28 PM
Not anymore than they stopped the passed when Collins was diving into the endzone. Running the ball got us back in the game.

That was at the beginning of the game, and when the Steelers were backed up to their own goal line. Mendenhall's fumble occurred on the Packers' side of the field as the Steelers were driving (behind the pass) and basically sealed the Steelers' fate.

Farrior_roirraW
02-09-2011, 08:33 PM
some of you guys are nuts. we lost the superbowl, move on. we still have a great team. sure ben threw two picks. one of them would have been a td if his arm had not been hit.

spoiled freakin brats

Yeah. I agree.

Depending on how these next few days play out I might (probably will) take a break until these threads die (for the most part). :noidea:

theplatypus
02-09-2011, 08:38 PM
i don't think we need to change 'the system' much at all. what we need is a new PHILOSOPHY.

i don't think we should change the playbook drastically, but by god, I want someone in charge who will make gametime adjustments and attack weaknesses according to what the defense is giving us. THIS is what needs to change. Arians time and time again can't seem to get over his own ego and won't change, and I think that's part of the problem. He needs to go.

and I disagree with he's average. he's below average. We have a lot of talent on offense. a HOF quarterback and a pro bowl caliber running back. How we are in the middle of the pack in total offense considering the talent we have, is inexcusable.


You need to take off the Ben colored glasses for once. Ben is a good quarterback, but he really needs to learn to stop looking for the big play all the freaking time. When he was sacked in the 3rd we had two options open deep enough for the 1st, but Ben looked them off for something "better" and ended up being sacked instead. I would much rather see us put together consistent drives as opposed too nothing on 1st, sacked on 2nd and living on a wish and a prayer on 3rd.

TRH
02-09-2011, 08:39 PM
Yeah. I agree.

Depending on how these next few days play out I might (probably will) take a break until these threads die (for the most part). :noidea:


speaking of doing that....i haven't watched ONE second of sports show analysis of any kind. I changed the channel when the clock wound down to zero in the game....and i haven't turned on SportsCenter, NFL GameDay or anything else since.

tony hipchest
02-09-2011, 08:44 PM
speaking of doing that....i haven't watched ONE second of sports show analysis of any kind. I changed the channel when the clock wound down to zero in the game....and i haven't turned on SportsCenter, NFL GameDay or anything else since.

:chuckle: ive watched them all. im watching the replay now as i type.

infact, i'd say ive watched my tape of sb XXX more times than any of the victories. :noidea:

SteelCityMom
02-09-2011, 08:48 PM
:chuckle: ive watched them all. im watching the replay now as i type.

infact, i'd say ive watched my tape of sb XXX more times than any of the victories. :noidea:

You've got nards of steel Tony. :chuckle:

I downloaded a Superbowl mega pack on Monday...hours of pre and post game analysis, the Inside the Rings thing, Road to the Superbowl, the game with commercials and halftime show...the whole spiel.

I got through 5 minutes of the first quarter and just wasn't ready yet lol. I'm not devastated or anything, it's just too soon yet.

I refuse to re-watch XXX. I spit three times on the floor when I hear it mentioned. :chuckle:

TRH
02-09-2011, 08:48 PM
:chuckle: ive watched them all. im watching the replay now as i type.

infact, i'd say ive watched my tape of sb XXX more times than any of the victories. :noidea:


haha. How's those "dozens" of mistakes look and feel on replay?

TRH
02-09-2011, 08:50 PM
You've got nards of steel Tony. :chuckle:

I downloaded a Superbowl mega pack on Monday...hours of pre and post game analysis, the Inside the Rings thing, Road to the Superbowl, the game with commercials and halftime show...the whole spiel.

I got through 5 minutes of the first quarter and just wasn't ready yet lol. I'm not devastated or anything, it's just too soon yet.

I refuse to re-watch XXX. I spit three times on the floor when I hear it mentioned. :chuckle:


As for this one...afterwards i didn't want to hear all the "experts" talk about how dumb we played and how they "knew" GB was the better team and was going to win. And Aaron Rogers this, Aaron Rogers that. I couldn't take it anymore.

SH-Rock
02-09-2011, 08:51 PM
We need a Coordinator that can make Ben a better pocket passer. I'm not saying that he should completely change to that style, but when teams line up to contain Ben, not sack him, then he needs to make passes in the pocket. That said, the receivers will have to get on the same page as Ben. How many times did we see in the playoffs that the receivers just weren't ready for something Ben/Arians had in mind.

SH-Rock
02-09-2011, 08:53 PM
As for this one...afterwards i didn't want to hear all the "experts" talk about how dumb we played and how they "knew" GB was the better team and was going to win. And Aaron Rogers this, Aaron Rogers that. I couldn't take it anymore.

You still have to hand it to Rodgers. I believe without the dropped balls he could've had 375-400 yards and maybe even 4 TD.

RosettaStoned
02-09-2011, 08:53 PM
That was at the beginning of the game, and when the Steelers were backed up to their own goal line. Mendenhall's fumble occurred on the Packers' side of the field as the Steelers were driving (behind the pass) and basically sealed the Steelers' fate.

Uh no. I think you should rewatch the game bud. The Steelers weren't driving, unless you consider two plays a drive. He fumbled on 2nd and 2, after he had run for 8 yards on 1st down. By this time, the Steelers had already started to get away from the run after running on every play on a TD drive. This was after a punt. Two plays isn't driving, and no passes were thrown that drive.

TRH
02-09-2011, 08:54 PM
You still have to hand it to Rodgers. I believe without the dropped balls he could've had 375-400 yards and maybe even 4 TD.

it would have been in the 450 range. That one pass was a LONG easy TD...there was nothing but green grass all the way down the field.

Wallace108
02-09-2011, 08:54 PM
It's time for Arians to go. I don't feel like getting into why. He just does.

Depending on how these next few days play out I might (probably will) take a break until these threads die (for the most part). :noidea:

Anti-Arians threads never die ... they just multiply. :chuckle:

TRH
02-09-2011, 08:55 PM
It's time for Arians to go. I don't feel like getting into why. He just does.



Anti-Arians threads never die ... they just multiply. :chuckle:


i was thinking that earlier. They should just open a WHOLE new website separately just for "fire Arians" forums.

Atlanta Dan
02-09-2011, 08:58 PM
:chuckle: ive watched them all. im watching the replay now as i type.

infact, i'd say ive watched my tape of sb XXX more times than any of the victories. :noidea:

Hint - here are some parts to fast forward through
:chuckle:
Heath Miller being wide open at the left hashmark for a TD on the second INT when Ben forces the ball to Wallace

The overthrow when Wallace is open by 5 yards heading to the left pylon on the second possession of the third quarter down 17-14

Ike just missing on the 3rd and 10 completion when the Steelers probably would have got the ball back around their 40 with over 5 minutes left

The complete train wreck of a 2 minute drill to end the game

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-09-2011, 08:59 PM
As far as SB XLV is concerned, I don't think Arians is to blame for the offensive failures at all. The problem on Sunday was EXECUTION...

He dialed up the right plays, they guys just failed to catch the ball, or hold on to it. Execution, not our gameplan hurt us Sunday.

Farrior_roirraW
02-09-2011, 09:03 PM
speaking of doing that....i haven't watched ONE second of sports show analysis of any kind. I changed the channel when the clock wound down to zero in the game....and i haven't turned on SportsCenter, NFL GameDay or anything else since.

Neither have I. I have hard time going to espn/nfl.com and seeing all the shit on there. In fact, I don't remember which site, one of them had something like "Ben not as clutch as everyone thinks" and something about the Defense on the decline--and all of this because they lost. If they had won you wouldn't read word one about those two things. :banging:

Anti-Arians threads never die ... they just multiply. :chuckle:

I've learned to live with this fact. :chuckle:

Velvet Elvis
02-09-2011, 09:07 PM
Why do we even need a OC ? Everyone wants Ben to run no huddle and call his own plays ? Maybe Arians should fired for calling plays he know Ben cant make like long passes to a wide open Wallace( see Jets and GB game ). Maybe he should be fired for all the over and under thrown passes Ben makes to wide open receivers ! It doesnt matter who our OC is it will always be Ben's biggest excuse for most everyone here.

SteelCityMom
02-09-2011, 09:13 PM
Why do we even need a OC ? Everyone wants Ben to run no huddle and call his own plays ? Maybe Arians should fired for calling plays he know Ben cant make like long passes to a wide open Wallace( see Jets and GB game ). Maybe he should be fired for all the over and under thrown passes Ben makes to wide open receivers ! It doesnt matter who our OC is it will always be Ben's biggest excuse for most everyone here.

That would definitely be interesting.

Whatever the case, I think he needs a new QB coach more than anything. I'm totally in the dark when it comes to good assistant and position coaches though...so I have no idea who's name to throw in there, but I think that's something that needs addressed as well.

Farrior_roirraW
02-09-2011, 09:15 PM
Whatever the case, I think he needs a new QB coach more than anything. I'm totally in the dark when it comes to good assistant and position coaches though...so I have no idea who's name to throw in there, but I think that's something that needs addressed as well.

I heard Jim Zorn was jobless. :chuckle:

tony hipchest
02-09-2011, 09:28 PM
The overthrow when Wallace is open by 5 yards heading to the left pylon on the second possession of the third quarter down 17-14

:dang:

many people ultimately attribute the loss to mendenhalls fumble. this play woulda had us with the lead midway through the 3rd quarter. instead we burned some plays (including a sack) ran valuable time off the clock, and gave the packers the ball at the 40 instead of kicking off (on a night we were actually getting touchbacks).

ben making that throw woulda been a complete momentum changer (taking the wind out of the packers sails).

teh announcers were even commenting how it sounded like a road game for aaron rodgers the series before that.

that place woulda went nuts if steelers took the lead.

tony hipchest
02-09-2011, 09:36 PM
That would definitely be interesting.

Whatever the case, I think he needs a new QB coach more than anything. I'm totally in the dark when it comes to good assistant and position coaches though...so I have no idea who's name to throw in there, but I think that's something that needs addressed as well.

well, if it any consolation, the packers fabulous qb coach (who is widely credited for developing aaron rodgers) is a former steeler position coach-

Clements would hold the same job in 2000 with the Kansas City Chiefs, and between 2001 and 2003 with the Pittsburgh Steelers; under Clements’s tutelage, the Chiefs’ Elvis Grbac (in 2000) and the Steelers’ Kordell Stewart (in 2001) and Tommy Maddox (in 2002) each reached the Pro Bowl.

stb_steeler
02-09-2011, 09:48 PM
Hint - here are some parts to fast forward through
:chuckle:
Heath Miller being wide open at the left hashmark for a TD on the second INT when Ben forces the ball to Wallace

The overthrow when Wallace is open by 5 yards heading to the left pylon on the second possession of the third quarter down 17-14

Ike just missing on the 3rd and 10 completion when the Steelers probably would have got the ball back around their 40 with over 5 minutes left

The complete train wreck of a 2 minute drill to end the game

BINGO......:thumbsup:

FanSince72
02-09-2011, 11:30 PM
You need to take off the Ben colored glasses for once. Ben is a good quarterback, but he really needs to learn to stop looking for the big play all the freaking time. When he was sacked in the 3rd we had two options open deep enough for the 1st, but Ben looked them off for something "better" and ended up being sacked instead. I would much rather see us put together consistent drives as opposed too nothing on 1st, sacked on 2nd and living on a wish and a prayer on 3rd.

Terry Bradshaw was the same way.

I watched Bradshaw all through the 70's and he was always looking for the big play.
That's who he was, that's what made him fun to watch and that's what made him successful.

Ben is just like Bradshaw in that regard. We've all seen Ben orchestrate clock-eating drives that end in TD's (like the opening drive in the AFCC game), so it's not like he can't or won't do that. But just like Bradshaw, he thinks that's boring and he wants to light things up. He's played like that ever since he started taking snaps so why is it a problem now? As far as I'm concerned, that's the number one reason why I like him so much. If I wanted to watch careful game-management, I'd watch some old tapes of Phil Simms and the Giants and probably fall asleep in ten minutes.

I guess you could go through every single play in the SB and find some thing he could have done differently and point to it and declare that there's some kind of problem. But for me, I just chalk it up to his not having his best day and that's that.

It happens.

MaineSteelerFan
02-10-2011, 07:54 AM
We need a Coordinator that can make Ben a better pocket passer. I'm not saying that he should completely change to that style, but when teams line up to contain Ben, not sack him, then he needs to make passes in the pocket. That said, the receivers will have to get on the same page as Ben. How many times did we see in the playoffs that the receivers just weren't ready for something Ben/Arians had in mind.

This is what I'm talking about, Ben is not your traditional pocket passer. Why change now? Its worked good so far, it has brought the Steelers 3 SB is six years. You guys are all going crazy because we lost the SB. Ben is fine the way he plays, and has proven to win that way. So, why change?

If a now coordinator does come in I think it should be a priority to get the young WR's on the same page with Ben. Look at the past and also look at the SB, in the past Ben has not really had problems with accuracy (his numbers speak to that fact). Look at the SB Ben threw perfect passes to Ward because they have been on the same page for years. Look at his comp. % in the SB it was actually higher than Rodgers. If Ben and his young WR's work hard this off-season and get on the same page - and learn how to help there QB out (Wallace on that first INT), than all I got to say is WOW when that happens.