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View Full Version : THINK I AM NUTS? AT LEAST LOOK AT MY POINT


Smith91
02-12-2011, 04:45 PM
Before the Superbowl 45 ever kicked off. I posted on here that I have been a Steelers fan and a football fan in general since 73'. I predicted a Steeler loss in the Superbowl. I also stated after years of watching lines and mysterious calls I believe football to be as real as wrestling. Let me first say that the officiating was not very bad in this superbowl because it didn't have to be bad for the result they wanted. This is what makes the entire league look legit. I think as steelers fans, we can all agree Pitt was just not on their game this superbowl. However, if pitt had came to play I think ref interaction would have been in question. If nothing else before you write me off as a nutcase, look at the facts, In the last 3 superbowls prior to 45 the dog covered. Pitt- 7 over arizona, pitt wins does not cover. Ne - 13.5 over Giants, Giants win outright. Indy - 3 over NO saints, Saints win outright. So I saw this coming but shouldn't people be suspicious when a #6 seed is favored over a #2 seed? Either oddsmakers are just incredible at predicting the future or the winner is predetermined. It is that simple. Don't give oddsmakers too much credit. I have always been taught that were their is a lot of money involved, there is always a chance of things not being on the up and up if you know what I mean. I could give many example of crazy things that have happened in all sports that I believe were not just chance. But lets talk about the Saints for a sec, New Orleans entire history, they were losers..Hurricane wipes the entire place out including a billion dollar stadium. If this were lets say Pittsburgh or Dallas, 2 with great history and fans all over the country. Not really a problem, However it was New Orleans. So fans were not turning out in large numbers anyway, because they sucked!!! After the hurricane, lets calculate the chain of events. 1st they beat a few teams they shouldn't, most noted a one-time good team Carolina Panthers. Next, Saints do not have a stadium, so the following year they have all road games,this equals loss of revenue for saints. They win more than usual and actually look like a real team. New stadium built in New Orleans, Houston passes on Reggie Bush, New Orleans drafts him. Now I am not saying Bush is NFL mega-star but he served a purpose for New Orleans, He put asses in seats of the new stadium. All of the sudden NO is a playoff team, after a couple years of a winning team, New Orleans is rebuilt and OH mY they win a superbowl. Luck? maybe!!! total economic win for everyone? absolutely!! Vegas won money, the league in their best interest keeps a team in place and back on their feet, Saints owner and community- helped revenue tremendously. I have tried to follow this for years to see how far I think it goes. I personally believe the fix is in and by the league, owners, refs, and mofia are the only ones involved. This could happen and it kept a secret very easily. I do not believe coaches or players are involved or their would have been a leak by now...Big mouths like TOwens couldn't keep a secret. Do some research of Pitt-SD game in 2008, pitt was favored by 6. youtube the full version of the end of the game and judge for yourself.

SteelCityMom
02-12-2011, 04:56 PM
Sorry, I couldn't read all that. Paragraphs are your friend man. But yes, I still think your nuts. Vegas favored a Steelers win.


Packers' Super Bowl win takes big bite out of Vegas profit
Wed Feb 9, 2011 4:07pm EST
http://ca.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idCATRE7186D320110209

TORONTO (Reuters) - Super Bowl gambling in Nevada rose 5.8 percent this year but the state's sports books made significantly less money as the favored Green Bay Packers defeated the Pittsburgh Steelers in Sunday's NFL title game.

The value of bets placed in Nevada's 183 sports books was $87.5 million, up from the $82.7 million wagered on last year's Super Bowl between the New Orleans Saints and Indianapolis Colts, according to the Nevada Gaming Control Board.

But the Packers, 2.5-point favorites at most casinos in Las Vegas, covered the spread with a 31-25 win over the Steelers.

That was not welcome news to Vegas casinos who were waving their "Terrible Towels" -- the black and gold dish towels that Pittsburgh's fan base are known for frantically waving during games -- in hopes of a bigger payday.

Sports books in Nevada kept a combined $724,176 from Super Bowl bets, or 0.83 percent of the total wagers placed, down 89 percent from the $6.9 million they pocketed last year when the underdog Saints triumphed over the Colts.

"That's the way it goes once in a while," Jay Rood, race and sports book director at MGM Resorts International, which operates 10 sports books on the Las Vegas Strip, told Reuters on Wednesday.

"We've had a pretty good run in the Super Bowls and every once in a while we're going to take one on the chin, but it wasn't anything devastating."

Rood, who said he had a glimmer of hope for a bigger payday for MGM when Pittsburgh pulled to within three points of Green Bay late in the game, admitted he has experienced worse results during Sundays of the NFL's regular season.

Other gambling options for the Super Bowl, including a slew of proposition bets, allowed casinos to still pocket some money despite the Packers victory.

Every year, the NFL's championship game creates a gambling frenzy in Nevada that is considered by some to be a bellwether for the broader U.S. economy.

While the value of bets wagered fell short of the record $94.5 million set five years ago when the Steelers beat the Seattle Seahawks, the Nevada Gaming Control Board took comfort in the fact that betting was up.

"It could have been a lot worse. After the game we were fearing it might have been a loss," said Mike Lawton, senior research analyst for the Nevada Gaming Control Board.

"We didn't win a lot of money but the good thing is wagers were up, so people came and spent money. We're not where we were in 2007 but we are starting to climb out of that hole and back up the mountain."

Smith91
02-12-2011, 05:00 PM
I am trying not to write a book but to prove my point when talking about the lines, if GB-PITT were predetermined, they had to make GB the favorite for several reasons. There are a ton of pitt and GB fans so they figured at worst even money on the line and they needed a favorite to win so what better time than this superbowl. At gametime I watched the live ticker for vegas, 48% of the money was on GB-3, 52% of the money was on pitt +3, so vegas wins money by the favorite covering. This doesn't happen often because most gamblers play the favorite and this was a clear cut easy prediction for me as a handicapper. Notice I have not mentioned talent of either team because when it is all said and done, talent means nothing in the nfl. All teams are talented, a few calls by the ref mean all the difference. Correct or incorrect calls, the talent is so close that flags can make a huge difference n any game.

tony hipchest
02-12-2011, 05:06 PM
professional bowlers are talented as well but they dont roll a 300 every game. do the refs play a part in that as well.

tiger woods is a very talented golfer but doesnt hit a hole in one on every shot.

baseball players are very talented but still cant bat better than .400. should we blame the umpires?

even the most talented pitcher in the world doesnt strike out every batter. umps as well?

Smith91
02-12-2011, 05:07 PM
SCMOM, so you believe a newspaper article? trust me, I have been a handicapper for many years and vegas always wants people to think the public is getting the best of them because this attracts new gamblers. If the public was getting the best of vegas, how would they be in business? Just a little common sense goes a long way. Think I am nuts, I don't care. However, I am smart enough to know that newspapers and TV have us all brainwashed at least to a certain extent. Think what you will.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 05:12 PM
Hello Tony,
I believe you are missing the point. Their are actually 2 games being played in every game. I am not talking about any player at any time. I do not question any pros talent, they are called a pro for a reason...even the non-superstar is a superstar, hence the word pro!!! The 2 games I am talking about is actual winning team of a game and then the pointspread winner!

SteelCityMom
02-12-2011, 05:16 PM
SCMOM, so you believe a newspaper article? trust me, I have been a handicapper for many years and vegas always wants people to think the public is getting the best of them because this attracts new gamblers. If the public was getting the best of vegas, how would they be in business? Just a little common sense goes a long way. Think I am nuts, I don't care. However, I am smart enough to know that newspapers and TV have us all brainwashed at least to a certain extent. Think what you will.

Ok, whatever guy. Nowhere in that article did I get the sense that the public EVER gets the best of Vegas, even when it doesn't get the result it wants. Quite the contrary. Especially when phrases like, "this happens every once in a while" and "we've had a pretty good run in Superbowls" are thrown around...after they still made some profit lol. They just wish they had made a bigger profit. If Vegas had it fixed, Steelers would have won...boosting bookies profits everywhere.

Hey, has Jesse Ventura convinced you that 2012 is real yet? Sorry to tell you, but brainwashing goes both ways.

Just stop watching the NFL then if you think it's fixed. What's the point otherwise?

tony hipchest
02-12-2011, 05:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Tony,
I believe you are missing the point. Their are actually 2 games being played in every game. I am not talking about any player at any time. I do not question any pros talent, they are called a pro for a reason...even the non-superstar is a superstar, hence the word pro!!! The 2 games I am talking about is actual winning team of a game and then the pointspread winner! i definitely get that. please see below post-

smith, you seem to find yourself in quite a connundrum. perhaps you would be better off in your venture as a professional handicapper, if you seperated yourself form all emotion and severed any allegiances you may have with a particular team.

this seems to be an internal conflict that you are really struggling with.

:hunch:

otherwise people might think youre a bit loco. :screwy:

Smith91
02-12-2011, 05:22 PM
I am making these posts for awareness only, I have nothing to gain and actually have been upset over this for some time because of my love for the game in general. If I had the time I can show thousands of examples for 1995 to present. Unfortunately, only gamblers can see a trend of things that have and will continue to happen. To the fan a call is just a call, example a pitt fan watching the PITT-SD game in 2008 says pitt won a close game 11-10, a gambler says this is bullshit pitt was cheated, they should have won 18-10 and covered the spread. An obvious bad call by the refs on a Polamalu TD kept pitt from covering. This was no accident and obvious...this particular game stands out because it was so obvious. 5 minutes after the game the refs admit they made a mistake, however they took 15 minutes trying to take the TD of the board and discussing the call. It is on youtube, watch the full version to see exactly what happened

Fire Arians
02-12-2011, 05:25 PM
AaAAaAAAAAAaaaaaAAAaAAaAaAHHhHhHHHH CAN YOU FEEL IT DUDE???!?!!!!!!

cF4ZTcuhixc

harrison'samonster
02-12-2011, 05:25 PM
if I had money on a game and lost, I would think it was fixed as well.

SteelerEmpire
02-12-2011, 05:28 PM
With the stuff that came out in basketball about the refs part in fixing games for money AND me (seeing it with my own two eyes) witnessing areas of the boxing community fixing fights in the form of paying guys to take falls, I do believe there is some form of under-handedness in this area in the NFL. How exactly their doing it in THIS game (pro level football) remains to be seen. But yea, it is just simply naive to believe the NFL is immune to this type of activity. I'd put money on it that it exists... that's how strongly I feel about it...

Smith91
02-12-2011, 05:34 PM
Tony,
As I mentioned, I have a love for the game. I played 13 years, at a lower level everything seems easy. At the college and pro level the water is muddy, for lack of a better term. I am a great handicapper and made a lot of money for the last 12 years. Thinking I am loco or my passion for my team really should not enter into my point I am making. I have called 9 straight superbowls correct by the line. Lucky? as about as lucky as the saints winning superbowl 44. I make money knowing what I know while people call me a nut. lol, I would trade all the money for a league of legitimacy. Only because of my love for the game. I will continue to make a lot of money, and the league will continue to do what they do and plenty of people will stay blind. So be it. Call me loco, look at my posts before kickoff

mcg24
02-12-2011, 05:44 PM
Tony,
As I mentioned, I have a love for the game. I played 13 years, at a lower level everything seems easy. At the college and pro level the water is muddy, for lack of a better term. I am a great handicapper and made a lot of money for the last 12 years. Thinking I am loco or my passion for my team really should not enter into my point I am making. I have called 9 straight superbowls correct by the line. Lucky? as about as lucky as the saints winning superbowl 44. I make money knowing what I know while people call me a nut. lol, I would trade all the money for a league of legitimacy. Only because of my love for the game. I will continue to make a lot of money, and the league will continue to do what they do and plenty of people will stay blind. So be it. Call me loco, look at my posts before kickoff

How are you a Steelers fan if you think the entire league is fixed?


Oh and in similar news, the holocaust never happened. :coffee:

Smith91
02-12-2011, 05:57 PM
Ok a little bit of intelligence helps here. I AM A STEELERS FAN BECAUSE AS A CHILD BEFORE I FIGURED THIS WHOLE THING OUT, I WAS A STEELER FAN!!!! Next reason I personally know 2 people that played for the steelers. Craig Colquitt, punter, Leroy Thompson, Fb- He played for Austin east high school, penn state college, then to Pitt for a couple years. We have recently worked together, non sports related. No need to mention Colquitt, every steeler fan knows colquitt.

dsr
02-12-2011, 06:50 PM
I can summarise smith's OP, if it helps:

1. All NFL matches are fixed.

2. The Superbowl was fixed for GB to win.

3. GB won because they played better than Pittsburgh.

4. If Pittsburgh had played better than GB, the refs would have cheated.

5. The refs did not cheat, which proves the Superbowl was fixed.

I can't help thinking there's a tiny tiny logic flaw in there somewhere, but then I'm probably in the pay of the bookies as well ...

:wink:

Smith91
02-12-2011, 07:46 PM
As crazy as this may sound, dsr at least somewhat gets the point. except for #5 dsl, this proves nothing. # 5 should read that since GB outplayed Pitt, the refs didn't have to cheat so it gives legitimacy that the NFL is not rigged and I am a nut according to the public. Now actually what it did was allow the games integrity not to be compromised and the refs to have an easy time getting the desired result. But this does go both ways, I have saw games that the refs try to control the spread but it just doesn't go the way they planned so to keep from compromising the legitimacy of the game they let it go. Remember, there are always makeup games and if one team is just having a horrible game and (vegas) loses, I am talking regular season and even playoffs but not superbowl. They will not push the limit too far as it may become too obvious. Anyone that gambles on the point spread at some point has thought there is some shit in the game. Fans that have no wagering interest only look at wins/loses and are none the wiser. If you look at my posts before the superbowl I warned fans and gamblers what was to come. Now, you can write me off as picking one game and getting lucky on my call. Fine, say what you will but you can't gamble for 16 years without making money. If you constantly lose you have to stop at some point even if it means going to gamblers anonymous. lol, I have won for 16 years and won 9 straight superbowls on my "it's fixed theory". If I stop using the word fixed and use the word business decision in its place would you all feel more comfortable? lol.

Fire Arians
02-12-2011, 07:52 PM
dude paragraphs are your friend. i aint reading that wall of text shit.

Velvet Elvis
02-12-2011, 08:00 PM
Before the Superbowl 45 ever kicked off. I posted on here that I have been a Steelers fan and a football fan in general since 73'. I predicted a Steeler loss in the Superbowl. I also stated after years of watching lines and mysterious calls I believe football to be as real as wrestling. Let me first say that the officiating was not very bad in this superbowl because it didn't have to be bad for the result they wanted. This is what makes the entire league look legit. I think as steelers fans, we can all agree Pitt was just not on their game this superbowl. However, if pitt had came to play I think ref interaction would have been in question. If nothing else before you write me off as a nutcase, look at the facts, In the last 3 superbowls prior to 45 the dog covered. Pitt- 7 over arizona, pitt wins does not cover. Ne - 13.5 over Giants, Giants win outright. Indy - 3 over NO saints, Saints win outright. So I saw this coming but shouldn't people be suspicious when a #6 seed is favored over a #2 seed? Either oddsmakers are just incredible at predicting the future or the winner is predetermined. It is that simple. Don't give oddsmakers too much credit. I have always been taught that were their is a lot of money involved, there is always a chance of things not being on the up and up if you know what I mean. I could give many example of crazy things that have happened in all sports that I believe were not just chance. But lets talk about the Saints for a sec, New Orleans entire history, they were losers..Hurricane wipes the entire place out including a billion dollar stadium. If this were lets say Pittsburgh or Dallas, 2 with great history and fans all over the country. Not really a problem, However it was New Orleans. So fans were not turning out in large numbers anyway, because they sucked!!! After the hurricane, lets calculate the chain of events. 1st they beat a few teams they shouldn't, most noted a one-time good team Carolina Panthers. Next, Saints do not have a stadium, so the following year they have all road games,this equals loss of revenue for saints. They win more than usual and actually look like a real team. New stadium built in New Orleans, Houston passes on Reggie Bush, New Orleans drafts him. Now I am not saying Bush is NFL mega-star but he served a purpose for New Orleans, He put asses in seats of the new stadium. All of the sudden NO is a playoff team, after a couple years of a winning team, New Orleans is rebuilt and OH mY they win a superbowl. Luck? maybe!!! total economic win for everyone? absolutely!! Vegas won money, the league in their best interest keeps a team in place and back on their feet, Saints owner and community- helped revenue tremendously. I have tried to follow this for years to see how far I think it goes. I personally believe the fix is in and by the league, owners, refs, and mofia are the only ones involved. This could happen and it kept a secret very easily. I do not believe coaches or players are involved or their would have been a leak by now...Big mouths like TOwens couldn't keep a secret. Do some research of Pitt-SD game in 2008, pitt was favored by 6. youtube the full version of the end of the game and judge for yourself.

Yeah and the US government was responsible for 9/11 :doh:

stb_steeler
02-12-2011, 08:04 PM
Maybe they really arent reviewing the play but waiting for a call to overturn!
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/benjaminjjones/instant_replay.jpg

dsr
02-12-2011, 08:15 PM
As crazy as this may sound, dsr at least somewhat gets the point.
No I don't. I understand what you're trying to say, which is a different thing. I still think you're talking utter rubbish.

On another of your threads about this subject I asked you how you can find a body of 128 officials every weekend, every single one of whom is both entirely corrupt in that they cheat like hell, entirely reliable in that they none of them let on, and entirely happy to be paid so little they need a day job when the men they're fixing for get millions. Have you an answer?

SteelCityMom
02-12-2011, 08:16 PM
I have won for 16 years and won 9 straight superbowls on my "it's fixed theory".

I am a great handicapper and made a lot of money for the last 12 years

Which is it?

Smith91
02-12-2011, 08:39 PM
I have capped for 16 years, first 4 were a disaster because I based my bets on what team I thought was best and what i knew about football. The last 12 I have kicked butt. Since you guys are really looking hard to discredit me, I find it funny. And dsr, when I said you got it, I meant everything you quoted me as saying I said and meant except #5, you went the wrong way with that one. I don't care if you believe me or not, keep your heads in the sand. It is easier that way. As hard as is seems for you guys to believe a game could be fixed and all the work you think it could take. wow!!! The NBA could never be fixed could it? The ref that was set out was trying to get more than his share, there are rules. This man is smart enough not to try and expose anything because, first his creditability has been tainted by the simple charge of fixing the games, next he knows there are dangers for him and his family if he were to open his mouth. You think the owners and players are on the same team??? If so, why the lock-out and dispute over money? use some common sense people. The common sense you think you have by calling me a nut job could be you lack of knowledge and ability to think outside the box.

LegendSteel
02-12-2011, 08:48 PM
The common sense you think you have by calling me a nut job could be you lack of knowledge and ability to think outside the box.

Or you're just extremely paranoid and read into things way too much.

This is even more ridiculous than the trade Ben thread. :shake01:

Smith91
02-12-2011, 08:55 PM
why am I here talking about this? It is simple, I simply want people to watch the game with a different view. The squeaky clean game you think you are watching could very easily be tainted. As for the 128 refs mentioned earlier, does the mob exist? If you beleive they do, would you think there are more than 128? now before you start, I am not saying the refs are part of the mob. Going on your theory of getting a 128 people together to commit a crime of fixing games would be impossible, then the mob couldn't exist because there are way more than 128 mobsters all working together or against each other in teams committing crimes. Fixing games is a faceless crime, I believe the mob, team owners, and refs are all in on it. As for the salary you speak of, what does a ref really make? You can't answer that. You know what they tell us a ref makes. How about bonuses if you know what I mean. YOU CAN LOOK BACK AT PRIOR POSTS FROM ME---PRE SUPERBOWL AND I SAID IT THEN, I SAY IT NOW!!!! VEGAS NEEDED A FAVORITE TO COVER THIS YEAR! #6 SEED GREENBAY -2.5 OR 3 DEPENDING ON YOUR BOOK AT GAMETIME OVER #2 SEED PITT WAS THE PRIME TIME FOR THE FAVORITE........DID ANYONE HERE REALLY BELIEVE VEGAS WOULD LET A 16-0 PATRIOT TEAM COVER AGAINST THE GIANTS A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN 92% OF THE BETS WERE ON NEW ENGLAND VIA MONEYLINE OR SPREAD? Coincidence? think again.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 08:57 PM
Yep, It is rediculous while I count my money every year. lol, keep buying them hats, shirts, tickets, and betting on the team you think is the best.

Fire Arians
02-12-2011, 08:59 PM
whatever pays your bills man. some people rather enjoy the game instead of conjuring up conspiracy theories

Smith91
02-12-2011, 09:04 PM
well I don't have a problem with that. I have no problem with people thinking I am crazy, paranoid, or a conspiracy theorist. Enjoy the game I did for years until I started analyzing the point spread vs the calls made to control the spread. I used to record the games ( VCR) pre-DVD days. After watching refs and calls very close I stopped enjoying and started the realization of what it is!!! wrestling in shoulder pads, lol.

LegendSteel
02-12-2011, 09:10 PM
If you're really losing that much sleep over it, then why even put yourself through that? No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to watch the NFL week in and week out.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 09:13 PM
I don't have all the answers to all the questions but I can speak from years of experience. If you follow the money trail, you will be disturbed why what you see. And I even offer a gambling tip to all the critics, in big games like the superbowl, ncaa championship, etc. where there is only one game played for all the marbles, always go against what the public thinks or for conspiracy theorists such as myself. what the public is lead to believe. Look back through superbowl history, The teams most publicized usually will not cover the spread in the big game. NE in their dynasty covered one superbowl!!!! steeler nation with the large following 3 superbowls in 6 years covered 1, the one they covered they were favored as a 6 seed. See any pattern? Facts mean nothing I guess. Money in my pocket does, so keep those heads in the sand steeler nation.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 09:19 PM
Legend,
I am not losing any sleep!!! I am making money from it, why would I lose sleep? I love the game, just wish it was on the up and up. I don't watch week in and out anymore. I just capitalize and move on. I want to expose what I know..... it is as simple as this, where there is this type money exchanging hands, there will be corruption.......

Smith91
02-12-2011, 09:26 PM
Oh,
and it is not just the nfl, it is the nba and mlb...I always get crazy looks when I say MLB. How can you rig a guy hitting he ball? you can't!!!! it is that simple, however you can increase and decrease the size of the strike zones for each team. I would say easily the MLB is the hardest to rig but a umpire can definitely give one team the advantage over another. An advantage doesn't always equal a win, just something to think about. Remember the Glavine and Maddux days in Atlanta? I watched the strike zone become huge for those guys, while the opposing pitcher had a small window to get a strike. This gave ATL hitters an advantage. I am only displaying one example, I can name many examples of the same activity. This is the only way, and it is obvious at times that an ump can have control over the game.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 09:38 PM
Ok,
I will make this my final post of the night. And I will end it with a question to all sports fans, Am I the only guy that has watched a game and said WTF? I have never saw that call made on the field!! Of all times to make a crazy call and the ref calls that? meaning you feel there is some shit in the game. Next time you see that type call that makes you go wtf is this all about? check the point in the game in which it was called, specifically the end of the game where a makeup call would be impossible and check the point spread. Then come back and call me crazy or whatever. I bet you will find a coalition between the spread and the call made on the field. 1997 Iowa vs Iowa st. ---Iowa winning by 29, favored by 31.5, 45 seconds left to play. Iowa state punts from their endzone, Tim Dwight catches the ball runs for a meaningless TD. The refs call it back for a phantom holding penalty. This keeps Iowa from covering. You question why I use this example? easy, it was obvious because the punt was shanked, 21 of the 22 players on the field stopped. Nobody was blocking or going after tim Dwight because everyone thought the ball would hit and go out of bounds. Iowa take a knee and game over, Dwight was the only one that responded and scored easily. This can be found in footage.

LegendSteel
02-12-2011, 09:39 PM
In my opinion, the "corruption" is in things like Goodell wanting to lengthen the season to 18 games when he's supposedly so concerned about player safety at the same time...not in the outcome of games. Refs/umps/etc. aren't robots and are going to call games differently from one another. Just because some ref in the NBA came clean, doesn't mean it's like that across the board. As I said in this post (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showpost.php?p=913039&postcount=46) in your other thread (that you conveniently seemed to ignore), there are just as many examples that support the contrary of your argument...it's not lopsided either way.

Besides, revenue generated from betting is a mere drop in the bucket compared to TV deals, commercials, advertising, etc. It probably isn't even worth the time and effort to conjure up a whole operation to "fix" games when there are other, MUCH larger sources of revenue and profit to "take control of," if you will. There actually was a "conspiracy" earlier this year during a MNF game supposedly about an ESPN official going up to Jeff Fisher late in a game and telling him to take a timeout so they could go to commercial. At that point there supposedly weren't enough breaks in the game to satisfy all the advertisers, and it was nearing the end of the game.

I'd say if there are any "conspiracy theories" to be aware of, it's the ones that could be affecting advertising (i.e. the Titans example), and/or the CBA talks.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 09:44 PM
I had to add this one last thing, in the game I just mentioned. They showed replay after replay and nobody was holding. They showed every player on the field because it was such a weird event. Even the announcer called it a phantom foul. The guy they called for holding was not even on special teams during the play. He was on the sideline with his helmet off. This is absolutely a true story.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 09:46 PM
Legend,
If I didn't respond it was because I didn't see what you posted. Ask or tell me again and I will respond.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 09:51 PM
Legend,
My question to you would be what supports the other side? I realize refs are not robots but I am referring to calls made that effect the point spread in a particular direction. Calls that are easy to make but get messed up conveniently. This is no accident, I have saw it too much for it to be accidental.

LegendSteel
02-12-2011, 09:58 PM
Click the words "this post." I pointed out quite a few examples in that post.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 10:02 PM
I must disagree with you on part of this. I realize what TV brings to the table, this is a direct coalition to my entire point!!! Good TV ratings are a must!! That is why high profile teams, winning teams play on Sunday and Monday night, for good TV ratings, you agree? if not, check into it!!!! They do not hide this fact, it is just good business for networks and the NFL. Seems harmless and without any type of my fix theory involved, right? Well I will just stop here. The NFL is a business, not a game. I personally believe the NFL has the smartest business me of any sport going. The NFL is well promoted, they take action on players that make the NFL look bad, no steroid talk, almost perfection with its image. Look underneath the image.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 10:02 PM
checking this post now

LegendSteel
02-12-2011, 10:04 PM
Let's just agree to disagree. Obviously neither one of us is going to budge on this.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 10:19 PM
Ok Legend,
I read the post. There is a lot to answer there. The Pitt / Balt play had nothing to do with the spread. I don't believe that one play was rigged, I think it was good fortune for pitt. but remember that point spread was already decided. The play you speak of was at the end of the game and a deciding factor of the outcome but not the point spread. Nothing I saw about the play made me suspect wrong doing by refs. Nothing really stood out in this years Superbowl, as for the 2005 Steelers. I can explain every single game!! A 6 seed never won it all, Pitt had a bad regular season and just barely made the playoffs. All the betting money in every game pitt played was on the other side, starting with the division winning Bengals and ending with the Seahawks as dogs!!! Easily explained. Pitt was supposed to lose to Indy but cover the spread. I have it to this day on video, as I have said in the past not every rigged game turns out to be the way they planned. If you remember, Polamalu intercepted Manning at the end. It was as clear as my nose on my face that was a INT!!! It was overturned, and Indy had another chance. Long story short, I have the video and the game didn't go as planned. With that video I also have the Joey Porter interview after the game where he says" I know you guys want to see Peyton win one but don't take it away from us" THIS IS YOUR TEAM SURELY YOU REMEMBER SOME OF THIS. You talked about so much I can't remember what else I am supposed to respond too, lol.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 10:24 PM
Want to hear a make up call? Denver/SD money was on SD heavily a couple years ago. Ref makes a horrible call denver wins/covers. End of same season SD needs a win and Denver loss to win division. SD was playing a good team, denver was playing a horrible team. SD wins, Denver loses justice is done. Money changes hands in favor of Vegas. If you need specific teams and dates I can provide them but do not have them in my memory bank.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 10:29 PM
I know how crazy I sound. But I also know I am not crazy. I give the props to the NFL/Owners/refs/ and the mofia for being so smooth. I am sure I don't know everything or everyone involved but I do know that the entire organization / business is run so well that the untrained eye has trouble spotting foul play.

stb_steeler
02-12-2011, 10:36 PM
I can understand what some of your point is, but you would think they would make alot of money if say Lions were an underdog, in which they are.Why not make a winner out of one of those teams. Imagine if a team like that would go all the way after so many years of never winning, the payoff could be huge. Especialy being the underdogs. I will say this, i am a Steeler die hard, and if this statement claim would ever be true, and i hope it never is. Id be done with football forever. Just like i did with baseball when they striked!

Smith91
02-12-2011, 10:44 PM
Ok for the last time I am going to bed but will leave you with this. As I have said before, Steeler fan since 73" Diehard fan, I posted before the superbowl warning steeler fans what would happen in the game. Do I think the stinking packers are a better team, hell no!!! If I made bets with my heart or which team I thought was the best team I would lose like I did my 1st four years of betting. I knew exactly what was going to happen as soon as the line hit with the 6 seed packers favored by 2.5, I can read vegas. I have saw crazy calls from refs, I can pick winners consistently ATS, I base my theory that the NFL, all sports for that matter are rigged because I can read vegas and know what side they want the public money on. And based on the insane calls I have saw. Who knows I may be nuts, but I have always heard their is a fine line between genius and crazy. Good night all.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 10:53 PM
Shit, I have to answer stb I can't go to bed now. lol, stb- I collected sports cards for years, I am so sure of my findings I have been selling all my cards on ebay. When I say I collected, I mean collected. I had every hall of fame rookie card of every player. My user name on ebay is ele314. I am currently selling off all my basketball HOF rookies. I sold many of the football during football season, I have over 130k in cards and my thought to selling them is simple. If the shit ever breaks out that it is fake, my cards are worthless, sell them now before the shit hits the fan, lol. I have plenty more cards to sell, but look on ebay and you will see listed right now my Jordan rookie psa 8, Jerry west rookie psa 7, and Oscar Robertson rookie psa 7. If you know anything about cards, you would know these are nice and valuable.

Smith91
02-12-2011, 11:02 PM
Well stb- the lions winning would be the opposite. Let me tell another true story, The year we beat the Arizona cardinals in the superbowl, If you had bet 100.00 at the start of that season on Arizona to win the superbowl it paid 10,000 back. Same year, If you had bet 100 on Arizona to win the superbowl when the playoffs started, 100 on arizona paid back 5,000. There was no way Arizona was going to win that game!!!! If you put 100 on Detroit this year at the start of the year it paid back 45,000 those are insane odds. Those odds make people toss 100 out there with the hope of maybe something crazy will happen, it never happens. Every year bettors take the Patriots, Steelers, Colts, and latest the Saints. Well I guess GB will now be a top tier team with the oddsmakers. those 2nd tier teams like SD, Minn,Giants, Jets, etc are always a good bet for a somewhat longshot. There is a method to the madness, and it all revolves around money!!!!

Smith91
02-12-2011, 11:03 PM
goodnight all

stb_steeler
02-12-2011, 11:05 PM
I understand what u mean about them picking the usual winners

Packerstud
02-12-2011, 11:46 PM
Do I think the stinking packers are a better team, hell no!!! If I made bets with my heart or which team I thought was the best team I would lose like I did my 1st four years of betting. I knew exactly what was going to happen as soon as the line hit with the 6 seed packers favored by 2.5

If your really this good you wouldn't be here. You'd have to much money to spend your time on this forum.

I've read all of your posts in this thread. To me it sounds like you lost more betting than you could afford to lose.

And right now your have some mental issues, talk to a professional as soon as possible.

stb_steeler
02-13-2011, 12:27 AM
UH OH.........:popcorn:

Fire Arians
02-13-2011, 12:35 AM
UH OH.........:popcorn:

i'll check back in a bit, this is starting to get good :chuckle:

ricardisimo
02-13-2011, 02:16 AM
Smith... you understand that by putting yourself out here like this, exposing this corruption, that you've painted a gigantic, neon, bright safety red (fuchsia, actually, but whatever) BULLSEYE on your forehead? The powers that be in Vegas won't rest until they've silenced you! You're in grave danger!

You've got to stop posting here immediately! Go underground. We'll start compiling the data and feeling out which public officials we can trust and which ones we cannot. We'll be shuttling you between safe houses on a regular basis, and taking turns walking around town in your clothes so as to confuse the goons (let's face it: hired goons are pretty easy to fool). Whatever you do, don't contact us... we'll contact you.

Now skedaddle, and be quick about it. Trust no one.

SteelCityMom
02-13-2011, 02:21 AM
Smith... you understand that by putting yourself out here like this, exposing this corruption, that you've painted a gigantic, neon, bright safety red (fuchsia, actually, but whatever) BULLSEYE on your forehead? The powers that be in Vegas won't rest until they've silenced you! You're in grave danger!

You've got to stop posting here immediately! Go underground. We'll start compiling the data and feeling out which public officials we can trust and which ones we cannot. We'll be shuttling you between safe houses on a regular basis, and taking turns walking around town in your clothes so as to confuse the goons (let's face it: hired goons are pretty easy to fool). Whatever you do, don't contact us... we'll contact you.

Now skedaddle, and be quick about it. Trust no one.


:rofl:

Seriously though, you seem pretty intense and worked up about this Smith. To the point where you've been here almost all day rambling about it. Using paragraphs and editing your posts if you forget to add something helps too. It'll make you seem less crazy, I promise. :chuckle:

ricardisimo
02-13-2011, 02:24 AM
:rofl:

Seriously though, you seem pretty intense and worked up about this Smith. To the point where you've been here almost all day rambling about it. Using paragraphs and editing your posts if you forget to add something helps too. It'll make you seem less crazy, I promise. :chuckle:
No, I'm thinking Seroquel or Zyprexa will make him seem less crazy.

MattsMe
02-13-2011, 02:43 AM
You are all sheep. The NFL is rigged. Just like online poker, and the Sandusky, Ohio Fire Department's annual jet ski raffle.

I pity all of you.

SteelCityMom
02-13-2011, 02:51 AM
You are all sheep. The NFL is rigged. Just like online poker, and the Sandusky, Ohio Fire Department's annual jet ski raffle.

I pity all of you.

DJnKm6ftPu0

SouthTexasSteel
02-13-2011, 08:29 AM
Just a few quick questions:

1) At what point in the season is the SB winner decided?
2) Who or what body makes the decision?
3) Is the entire season a setup for the predetermined SB winner?
4) How many players and coaches know? Is that why Barry Sanders quit in his prime, cause he knew he would never win despite running for crazy numbers?
5) Are all those injuries in the NFL real or fake to help determine the outcome of a particular season?
6) Who is going to win in 2012?
7) And why do teens take showers with the shower curtain outside the tub?

just askin'...

P.S. That last one I was just thinking out loud....

Buddha Bus
02-13-2011, 09:11 AM
Been touching the wood again, eh Smith? :shake01:



http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/data/media/2/insanity-wood.jpg

The Curtain's Crusader
02-13-2011, 12:02 PM
Wow. Just read all that and all I can say is... What just happened?

"Ok, I will make this my final post of the night." = 12 more posts. Obviously he's convinced about this.

And I'm pretty sure the word you're looking for is "correlation", not "coalition".

zulater
02-13-2011, 12:28 PM
Wow. Just read all that and all I can say is... What just happened?

"Ok, I will make this my final post of the night." = 12 more posts. Obviously he's convinced about this.

And I'm pretty sure the word you're looking for is "correlation", not "coalition".



:rofl:

MasterOfPuppets
02-13-2011, 01:26 PM
http://www.photoshoppix.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10004/normal_paranoia.jpg

dsr
02-13-2011, 02:11 PM
And dsr, when I said you got it, I meant everything you quoted me as saying I said and meant except #5, you went the wrong way with that one. I don't care if you believe me or not, keep your heads in the sand. ... The common sense you think you have by calling me a nut job could be you lack of knowledge and ability to think outside the box.

I didn't call you a nut job. I don't, by and large, hurl insults around to people I can't see. (And even less so to those I can see, because they're usually bigger than me!) What I did say was that everything (more or less) that you have said is utter rubbish.

Steelthe#1dynasty
02-13-2011, 02:41 PM
dude paragraphs are your friend. i aint reading that wall of text shit.

No need to interest yourself in the posting. Let's have an intelligent conversation here. By the way, I am from Mt. Lebanon but live in Las Vegas. I, too, make lots of money off sports betting and this is a topic of interest for me personally. It also involves our team to some degree. Anyhow, nobody is forcing you to read the man's posting! Stay off the chat if you do not want to have a discussion! If the man wants to have paragraphs, he'll decide for himself. It's a free country!

Steelthe#1dynasty
02-13-2011, 02:47 PM
Wow. Just read all that and all I can say is... What just happened?

"Ok, I will make this my final post of the night." = 12 more posts. Obviously he's convinced about this.

And I'm pretty sure the word you're looking for is "correlation", not "coalition".

As I stated before in an earlier post... I am originally from PA but live in Las Vegas. I don't speak for the guy but sports bettors are more in-tuned to trends. This is why I am also a successful sports bettor. You could call it a secondary job and I take it very serious. Ignorance is the difference of making money off sports bets and losing. The man has picked the last 9 Super Bowl winners. As a fellow Steelers fan, I'll take him at his word.

The Curtain's Crusader
02-13-2011, 04:05 PM
As I stated before in an earlier post... I am originally from PA but live in Las Vegas. I don't speak for the guy but sports bettors are more in-tuned to trends. This is why I am also a successful sports bettor. You could call it a secondary job and I take it very serious. Ignorance is the difference of making money off sports bets and losing. The man has picked the last 9 Super Bowl winners. As a fellow Steelers fan, I'll take him at his word.

And...you're telling me this because?

mcg24
02-13-2011, 04:19 PM
Just a few tips for future threads here.


1. Don't type in all caps. It makes you look like a moron, even if you aren't one.
2. Don't ask the question...think I'm nuts? Anyone who wasn't considering that you may be nuts is now considering it.
3. Don't type a massive blob of words thinking that someone is actually going to read the whole thing.

Pentheon
02-13-2011, 06:49 PM
hey did you guys hear tupac died?

Smith91
02-13-2011, 06:58 PM
I laugh because I must agree with what a lot of you are saying. Typing in caps is only to get attention to a particular sentence. I agree the paragraphs are a bit much but when I make an accusation that the NFL is rigged, it takes some typing to try and defend my point of view. And as far as typing the words think I am nuts? Its only because people have called me nuts, paranoid, conspiracy theorist, etc. in the past. Well, every time I bring up this subject. Usually, I get bettors attention fast when I give them a ton of winners vs the point spread. Some still don't believe the fix is in but are stunned that I can pick the winners. It is as simple as reading into vegas. I can't prove to anyone here that I picked the last 9 bowls correct, but if you look at my theory and apply it to the last 9 bowls you would know I picked them correct. Follow public opinion and the money.

Smith91
02-13-2011, 07:11 PM
I have enjoyed reading these posts, they are funny. I am putting myself out there and telling you all, swing at me as hard as you can. I expect what I am reading from you guys, if I were as clueless as I used to be I would take shots at me too. I do believe what I am saying, I have made a lot of money from the knowledge, but I am also mad because of what I know.

tony hipchest
02-13-2011, 07:58 PM
I do believe what I am saying, I have made a lot of money from the knowledge, but I am also mad because of what I know.

its really not brain surgery or rocket science. you ever stop to think that maybe youre just on a lucky streak?

:hunch:

theres a reason trully successful people study, pay for a degree, and take up a real profession. if what you know were true, and fact, everybody would be quitting their jobs and put vegas out of business.

ricardisimo
02-14-2011, 01:49 AM
You are all sheep. The NFL is rigged. Just like online poker, and the Sandusky, Ohio Fire Department's annual jet ski raffle.

I pity all of you.
:jawdrop:
Now you tell me... You couldn't have clued me in before I bought tickets for everyone at the office? There goes my kid's college fund. Thanks, Matt.
:banging::banging:

LW56
02-14-2011, 07:41 AM
So, how did George Bush mastermind the 911 attacks?

1978_steeler
02-14-2011, 10:28 AM
:blah::blah::blah::coffee::coffee::coffee: pretty much sums it up

chacha
02-14-2011, 12:19 PM
Before the Superbowl 45 ever kicked off. I posted on here that I have been a Steelers fan and a football fan in general since 73'. I predicted a Steeler loss in the Superbowl. I also stated after years of watching lines and mysterious calls I believe football to be as real as wrestling..

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRE-Q2X4b-7RIgjAYNstnCJ08TdZeE0LShJS2ZOeBjNiAGgfUK5ew

chacha
02-14-2011, 12:23 PM
http://fantasyknuckleheads.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Untitled.jpg

Smith91, I hear ya!!!

Smith91
02-14-2011, 03:13 PM
The comment about the degree and job blah blah blah, I have a degree, I have a job. To make a long story short, I actually discovered this whole thing while in college. To graduate i had to give a 30 minute presentation (research involved) on anything of choice. My research was on sports gambling and legitimacy of the game. I just took it to another level after college. I live in the south, Nascar has been huge down here for years, I remember when 5 to 7 drivers would win every race. Las Vegas began taking bets a few years ago and that very year you couldn't predict a winner. Rookie drivers were winning, formula 1 drivers won a few, it has been about that way since. I am talking about individual races not championships. This never happened in nascar history before vegas began taking bets. I am not saying it is or isn't fixed, but that year nascar agreed to make all cars identical to even the playingfield for all drivers and teams. Sounds like Nascar is in bed with vegas. Guess that is just a coincidence too.

mcg24
02-14-2011, 03:58 PM
The comment about the degree and job blah blah blah, I have a degree, I have a job. To make a long story short, I actually discovered this whole thing while in college. To graduate i had to give a 30 minute presentation (research involved) on anything of choice. My research was on sports gambling and legitimacy of the game. I just took it to another level after college. I live in the south, Nascar has been huge down here for years, I remember when 5 to 7 drivers would win every race. Las Vegas began taking bets a few years ago and that very year you couldn't predict a winner. Rookie drivers were winning, formula 1 drivers won a few, it has been about that way since. I am talking about individual races not championships. This never happened in nascar history before vegas began taking bets. I am not saying it is or isn't fixed, but that year nascar agreed to make all cars identical to even the playingfield for all drivers and teams. Sounds like Nascar is in bed with vegas. Guess that is just a coincidence too.



How about you give us statistics or facts to back up your point of view. Not just your "I remember back to....that one time where ehhh 5 or 7 drivers won every single race." That doesn't sound very factual.

Buddha Bus
02-14-2011, 04:12 PM
I also stated after years of watching lines and mysterious calls I believe football to be as real as wrestling.


BvTNyKIGXiI

Smith91
02-14-2011, 04:29 PM
mcg24,
Nascar betting began in 2002, the year after Dale Earnhardt died. If you want more info. look it up, You can see from the beginning of nascar racing until 2001, there were 5 or maybe even up to 10 drivers that all ran in the front and won almost all the races. Look at 2002 to present and see how many different winners there are each year. You ask me not to write a paragraph, you ask me to explain in detail. If you are interested, look it up. Google works!!!

mcg24
02-14-2011, 04:43 PM
mcg24,
Nascar betting began in 2002, the year after Dale Earnhardt died. If you want more info. look it up, You can see from the beginning of nascar racing until 2001, there were 5 or maybe even up to 10 drivers that all ran in the front and won almost all the races. Look at 2002 to present and see how many different winners there are each year. You ask me not to write a paragraph, you ask me to explain in detail. If you are interested, look it up. Google works!!!

Let me understand something.


You have a bunch of crazy theories that you want us to believe...but when we ask for facts and not just speculation you want......MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE to look up the facts? Why would I try to validate your crazy theories?

And for the record, I don't give a shit how much you write, but when you jumble it in one heaping mess of words I'm not going to read it no matter how important it is.

ricardisimo
02-14-2011, 04:54 PM
How about you give us statistics or facts to back up your point of view. Not just your "I remember back to....that one time where ehhh 5 or 7 drivers won every single race." That doesn't sound very factual.
You've clearly lost your way if you're here looking for facts or stats. Move along.

Edit: I was particularly amused by the guy who showed up giving him props, saying something like "He's picked the last nine SB winners... hear him out." One is at a loss to know where to begin with these sorts of posts and posters.

Smith91
02-14-2011, 05:05 PM
You wanted facts, stats, etc. You want them, look them up...because obviously you believe nothing I tell you so even if i post every winner of every race from 1980 to present you would just say, how do I know that to be fact. My response is for you to just keep your head in the sand. The only proof I have for you is that I called this superbowl correct!!! Documented on this site, and do you think there may be some method that I know how wins the superbowl before it is played? Believe or not makes no difference. My theory and picking the winner goes hand in hand.

mcg24
02-14-2011, 05:20 PM
You wanted facts, stats, etc. You want them, look them up...because obviously you believe nothing

No, I don't believe your bullshit that you keep spouting off. I believe facts. Stop telling us how many Super Bowls you've predicted, that carries no weight here.

Smith91
02-14-2011, 05:33 PM
mcg24,
I expect a comment like that from you. You know I picked this superbowl correct, We can agree to disagree. Put your head in the sand, buy you some wrestling tickets, and cheer for your favorite wrestler. Makes no difference to me.

mcg24
02-14-2011, 06:58 PM
mcg24,
I expect a comment like that from you. You know I picked this superbowl correct, We can agree to disagree. Put your head in the sand, buy you some wrestling tickets, and cheer for your favorite wrestler. Makes no difference to me.

Actually I don't know you picked this Super Bowl correct, nor do I know you picked any other Super Bowl or Nascar event correct.

Here's the big part though, are you ready? I don't care.


Let's be honest, the NFL is probably one huge conspiracy theory. I bet Goodell sent us into Vietnam and he coordinated 9/11. The owners probably started the whole "Holocaust" thing, everyone with half of a brain knows that didn't happen. Oh and do you know who killed Kennedy? Lee Harvey Oswald? HA! It was a coordinated plan between the NFL owners!

And how do I know all of this for a fact? Why I predicted the last 24 Super Bowls correctly, therefore anything I say must be taken as FACT and only FACT.

Buddha Bus
02-14-2011, 07:27 PM
mcg24,
I expect a comment like that from you. You know I picked this superbowl correct, We can agree to disagree. Put your head in the sand, buy you some wrestling tickets, and cheer for your favorite wrestler. Makes no difference to me.

We'll all "keep our heads in the sand" as long as you promise to keep yours in your ass. Maybe the aliens won't be able to read your mind that way. :thumbsup:

stb_steeler
02-14-2011, 07:35 PM
:dollar:..........:popcorn:

mcg24
02-14-2011, 07:37 PM
We'll all "keep our heads in the sand" as long as you promise to keep yours in your ass. Maybe the aliens won't be able to read your mind that way. :thumbsup:

http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~trouille/EYH/pics/435px-Alien.png


Well he looks harmless to me...

Smith91
02-14-2011, 07:47 PM
Yeah, Bush/JFK/Aliens oh I am paranoid. The NBA ref wasn't caught shaving points a couple years ago either. 4 Norhwestern football players were never convicted of point shaving, shoeless Joe Jackson was never banned from baseball for a payoff, the mofia doesn't exist. Wrestling is not fake. Nice world you geniuses live in.

tony hipchest
02-14-2011, 07:50 PM
....and sb XLV was not fixed.

mcg24
02-14-2011, 07:51 PM
the mofia doesn't exist.

You are correct sir, I do not believe the mofia exists.

Smith91
02-14-2011, 08:01 PM
predetermined, fixed whatever terminology you want to use. The refs had a great night. Pitt didn't play like Pitt so made the game look nice and legit. Had Pitt brought a team that played that night, things might have got interesting for the zebras. This just seems like a continuous circle of meaningless conversation, or mindless conversation. Would any of you bet your house that the NFL is not rigged?

Smith91
02-14-2011, 08:04 PM
mcg24,
the mofia doesn't exist? The game of football doesn't exist either? You can lead a horse to water but you just can't make him drink. good luck mcg- I am not responding to you at this point.

SteelCityMom
02-14-2011, 09:56 PM
mcg24,
the mofia doesn't exist? The game of football doesn't exist either? You can lead a horse to water but you just can't make him drink. good luck mcg- I am not responding to you at this point.

Dude...it's mafia.

Normally I wouldn't throw you a bone like that, but I'm not completely heartless.

mcg24
02-14-2011, 10:05 PM
Would any of you bet your house that the NFL is not rigged?

Anyone who bets their house on anything has serious gambling issues.

ricardisimo
02-15-2011, 12:59 AM
You are correct sir, I do not believe the mofia exists.
That's where you're wrong! The mofia does exist. They call themselves the Cosa Fan Tutte Nostra, which is Italian for "My biggest fan" or "Our biggest fan"... it's some weird reference to Frank Sinatra or something, I dunno. But they're real, and they are mean, and they really like Frank Sinatra and light romantic opera. It's scary.

Buddha Bus
02-15-2011, 02:47 AM
predetermined, fixed whatever terminology you want to use. The refs had a great night. Pitt didn't play like Pitt so made the game look nice and legit. Had Pitt brought a team that played that night, things might have got interesting for the zebras. This just seems like a continuous circle of meaningless conversation, or mindless conversation. Would any of you bet your house that the NFL is not rigged?


6zidyXPxDnQ&feature=related



http://www.shootingatbubbles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/insane.png

ebsteelers
02-15-2011, 03:17 PM
not even gonna read all 10 pages..

smith 91 you need to head to a gambling forum then, and if everything is fixed i guess it clouds the steelers 6 super bowls or all the lakers or celtics titles or yankees...


lay of the paranoid juice

ebsteelers
02-15-2011, 03:21 PM
you talk about picking super bowls right... but the public won this super bowl, they won the giants super bowl...

vegas lost money on that super bowl

Smith91
02-15-2011, 04:03 PM
Ebsteelers,

Well you would be wrong about both superbowls. GB-Pitt, the final numbers at game time had 52% of the money on pitt. I don't recall the exact number on NE-NYG but public was on NE, they were undefeated that year. As fact, you are not correct but for the sake of argument lets say you are correct. Lets say vegas lost money on both superbowls. As a simple economic must for them to stay in business, they win....if the money is even on both sides of a game they win money. Just answer this question as I have stated many times through all the threads. Why was GB favored by 2.5 to 3 points as a 6 seed over a 2 seed???? Both teams were hot, GB won 5 str8, Pitt won 4str8, Pitt had the home field advantage and makes since they would not be beat up and as tired as the traveling packers. My answer, they needed a favorite to cover this bowl and it was predetermined GB would win. Why is that so hard to believe? 3 str8 dogs had covered in the superbowl prior to this bowl.

steelerchad
02-15-2011, 04:32 PM
Ebsteelers,

Well you would be wrong about both superbowls. GB-Pitt, the final numbers at game time had 52% of the money on pitt. I don't recall the exact number on NE-NYG but public was on NE, they were undefeated that year. As fact, you are not correct but for the sake of argument lets say you are correct. Lets say vegas lost money on both superbowls. As a simple economic must for them to stay in business, they win....if the money is even on both sides of a game they win money. Just answer this question as I have stated many times through all the threads. Why was GB favored by 2.5 to 3 points as a 6 seed over a 2 seed???? Both teams were hot, GB won 5 str8, Pitt won 4str8, Pitt had the home field advantage and makes since they would not be beat up and as tired as the traveling packers. My answer, they needed a favorite to cover this bowl and it was predetermined GB would win. Why is that so hard to believe? 3 str8 dogs had covered in the superbowl prior to this bowl.

The line was Packers -2.5 points because the Packers were favored by bettors, which was correctly predicted by Vegas. The line didn't move all week, because the early line was a good one and the bets came in about like they thought they would? Doesn't this make more sense than a conspiracy theory? The Steelers were a 6 seed and were heavier favorites against the #1 Seahawks in 05 than the Packers were this year? And guess what, most people suppossedly still bet the Steelers that year and suppossedly Vegas lost money again. Vegas never really loses money, they just didn't make as much as they could have, same as this year.

Smith91
02-15-2011, 06:08 PM
SteelerChad,

I would agree if this were based on a single game incident. The line in 05 was pitt -3 so basically the same line as this year. I am not looking at one line and one game then screaming conspiracy!!!! I have been gambling for 16 years.

ricardisimo
02-15-2011, 06:44 PM
I've picked the last forty-three Super Bowls correctly - you can go back and check my record if you doubt me - and that fact gives me the authority to say that none of the games are fixed. We can end this discussion right now.

mcg24
02-15-2011, 07:07 PM
I've picked the last forty-three Super Bowls correctly - you can go back and check my record if you doubt me - and that fact gives me the authority to say that none of the games are fixed. We can end this discussion right now.

Don't mouth off like that...smith91 has connections with the mofia.

Smith91
02-15-2011, 08:03 PM
I guess nobody else sees a trend. Fair enough, like I said believe what you want.
I just think it is strange how easy it is to see.

2004 recap pitt 16-1 and loses to New England in playoffs. New England wins supperbowl but doesn't cover spread again Philly.

2005 recap pitt barely makes playoffs, Indy is the team to beat. Pitt beats Indy with a semi-controversial ending. Joey Porter makes the statement " I know everyone wants Manning to win one but don't take it from us" referring to the referee's calls at the end to give Indy multiple chances. #6 pitt -3 vs #2 Seattle pitt wins and covers.

2006 recap- Indy beats New England finally in the playoffs and goes on to win superbowl. Indy - 8 chic covers.

2007 pitt - 7 Arizona Pitt wins but doesn't cover. Arizona had very little support from bettors, If Pitt had covered that 7 Las Vegas would have took a huge hit. Knew it wouldn't happen.

2008 New England goes undefeated, they play the NY Giants. NYG wins outright as a dog.

2009 Indy - 3 NO that line looked suspicious from the beginning. The face of football (Manning) playing against NO Saints. Factors that I mentioned throughout the posts about NO Saints apply. Saints win outright.

2010 GB - 2.5 Pitt-- I view this game as 2 teams with a lot of support, both wins fans and bettors. Vegas needed a favorite to win because 3 str8 dogs had covered in the superbowl. This presented a good opportunity for the favorite to win. When a favorite wins and covers a superbowl, it is not about how much vegas will make. It is about damage control, meaning as long as they have even money on both side or favorite has slight advantage vegas doesn't get hurt.

This year was just a good example of my theory. I have been saying since NO Saints won last year the favorite would win this year.

tony hipchest
02-15-2011, 08:18 PM
This year was just a good example of my theory. I have been saying since NO Saints won last year the favorite would win this year.

well if its worth anything at all, i am very very proud of you.

stb_steeler
02-15-2011, 08:19 PM
Can i get the inside scoop on hockey games this week? :popcorn:

mcg24
02-15-2011, 08:22 PM
I guess nobody else sees a trend. Fair enough, like I said believe what you want.
I just think it is strange how easy it is to see.

2004 recap pitt 16-1 and loses to New England in playoffs. New England wins supperbowl but doesn't cover spread again Philly.

2005 recap pitt barely makes playoffs, Indy is the team to beat. Pitt beats Indy with a semi-controversial ending. Joey Porter makes the statement " I know everyone wants Manning to win one but don't take it from us" referring to the referee's calls at the end to give Indy multiple chances. #6 pitt -3 vs #2 Seattle pitt wins and covers.

2006 recap- Indy beats New England finally in the playoffs and goes on to win superbowl. Indy - 8 chic covers.

2007 pitt - 7 Arizona Pitt wins but doesn't cover. Arizona had very little support from bettors, If Pitt had covered that 7 Las Vegas would have took a huge hit. Knew it wouldn't happen.

2008 New England goes undefeated, they play the NY Giants. NYG wins outright as a dog.

2009 Indy - 3 NO that line looked suspicious from the beginning. The face of football (Manning) playing against NO Saints. Factors that I mentioned throughout the posts about NO Saints apply. Saints win outright.

2010 GB - 2.5 Pitt-- I view this game as 2 teams with a lot of support, both wins fans and bettors. Vegas needed a favorite to win because 3 str8 dogs had covered in the superbowl. This presented a good opportunity for the favorite to win. When a favorite wins and covers a superbowl, it is not about how much vegas will make. It is about damage control, meaning as long as they have even money on both side or favorite has slight advantage vegas doesn't get hurt.

This year was just a good example of my theory. I have been saying since NO Saints won last year the favorite would win this year.

Wall Street Journal said this of Lem Banker.

"A solid contender for the title of World's Greatest Authority on pro-football betting."

Lem Banker picked the Steelers in the Super Bowl.

My question is, how can Lem Banker be the worlds greatest pro football gambler when he doesn't know your theory? Or are you better than him?

ebsteelers
02-15-2011, 08:31 PM
Ebsteelers,

Well you would be wrong about both superbowls. GB-Pitt, the final numbers at game time had 52% of the money on pitt. I don't recall the exact number on NE-NYG but public was on NE, they were undefeated that year. As fact, you are not correct but for the sake of argument lets say you are correct. Lets say vegas lost money on both superbowls. As a simple economic must for them to stay in business, they win....if the money is even on both sides of a game they win money. Just answer this question as I have stated many times through all the threads. Why was GB favored by 2.5 to 3 points as a 6 seed over a 2 seed???? Both teams were hot, GB won 5 str8, Pitt won 4str8, Pitt had the home field advantage and makes since they would not be beat up and as tired as the traveling packers. My answer, they needed a favorite to cover this bowl and it was predetermined GB would win. Why is that so hard to believe? 3 str8 dogs had covered in the superbowl prior to this bowl.


and the steelers weren't nearly as hot as the packers.... heres y

all 5 of packers games were must wins, look how they handled giants and falcons.

there end of schedule giants, bears, eagles, falcons

steelers played panthers, browns, struggled with ravens, almost lost to jets


its not hard to see why packers were favorited forget the seeding... packers were pre season favorites by alot of people






vegas doesnt make all of its money off of sports gambling, believe i read they make less than 2% from sports...




and

im not wrong

http://www.casinogamblingweb.com/gambling-news/sports-gambling/super_bowl_nets_only_second_loss_since_1992_for_la s_vegas_casinos_48080.html









This years Super Bowl will be one to forget for casinos in Las Vegas. Sports books inside the casinos took a net loss for only the second time in the past sixteen years.

The early returns from Las Vegas before the Super Bowl was played was that the majority of the money was being placed on the New York Giants.

When Eli Manning led the Giants on that now famous game winning drive, he took with him a lot of money from Las Vegas sports books.

In 1992, the state of Nevada started reporting figures on how much money was won and lost on the Super Bowl. The figures for this years game are so bad, they would put lesser operations out of business.

Casinos reported a loss of $2.6 million. That figure blows away the previous high for net loss on the big game from 1995. That year, $400,000 was lost on the San Francisco-San Diego game.

ebsteelers
02-15-2011, 08:35 PM
and this year off the side vegas made around 700k... just gotta look up the stuff....

so your saying the super bowl is fixed...


and in your theory of 2005.. steelers/ seahawks, with the steelers following there is no way they could have made them a dog in that game. they would of been killed


same thing this year ... vegas knows pittsburgh couldnt stop the pass... rodgers was red hot... if you make the packers a +3 dog, vegas would of been eaten alive

Smith91
02-15-2011, 09:20 PM
I can't respond to everybody at once. I can't really explain my entire theory or I would type more of a book than I have already typed but I believe guys like Lem Banker are out there to "muddy the water" all vegas needs to win is confusion. A gamblers odds when sports betting are 50/50, If analyst on Tv networks and all the so called experts point people away from the winner (meaning point spread winner) vegas will win!!!! If for no other reason what so ever, anyone legit giving information would have gave GB in the super bowl. If for no other reason because the favorite was due.

tony hipchest
02-15-2011, 09:34 PM
If for no other reason what so ever, anyone legit giving information would have gave GB in the super bowl. If for no other reason because the favorite was due.have you ever sat and flipped a coin for an hour? you do know its very possible fo heads or tails to come up 8 times in a row. however, over the course of a thousand flips its most likely gonna balance out to about 50-50.

youve never seen a roulette wheel were either black or red keeps coming up and you place $$$ on the oposite number just knowing that streak is gonna end?

i think people were just spoiled in the 80's when the nfc was kicking the afc's ass every year in the sb.

teams are much more balanced nowadays with free agency.

a "favorite" is really nothing more than a"favorite".

being a favorite is really no indication of who is more capable or likely to win a game.

that is why so many people here are "struggling" with your theory.

it really seems to be a bunch of over thought hocus pocus. :noidea:

the real question is why cant you understand everybody elses simple theory of probability?

Smith91
02-15-2011, 09:36 PM
ok Ebsteelers,

I believe the reason you and I may have conflicting reports is because I watch the live ticker vegas runs per casino on money bet on each team. I am not extremely confident they are telling the truth on what side gamblers are riding, I am even less inclined to believe a internet or newspaper article. If the money is dead even on both sides, vegas makes 10% of the total amount bet on one side of the game. pitt/GB looked like fairly even money, within 2%. So for a second, stepping away from my theory that it is rigged, vegas shouldn't have cared who won the game because the money they make off either side is small in comparison to superbowls with bettors heavy on one side. And another thing that I have a hard time believing, casino sportsbooks only make 2% of their profit from sportsbetting? That, I have a real hard time believing unless millions are being pumped into the slots a day. Their are millions being placed on sporting events on a daily basis.

Smith91
02-15-2011, 09:57 PM
Tony,
You make very good and intelligent points. If I were not a sports bettor, I promise you I would be saying the same thing. On one hand you have logic that tells you how the fix just couldn't take place and your coin flip example is a very compelling argument. What changed my mind from a reasonable thinking individual such as yourself to the conspiracy theorist was examining the refs vs the point spread. What amazes me is that people never question anything about the game. So many things just smell bad to me about the game- I will give another example: 1997 Peyton Manning played for Tennessee, he didn't win the Heisman. Tennessee fans were mad, a lot of the fans were mad about him not getting the award. One of the ESPN analyst calls Tennessee fans trailer park trash. 1998 Manning goes pro at indy, Tennessee wins the national title beating Florida St in the fiesta bowl. I understand this had little to do with sports betting but falls into the catagory of suspicion of a predetermined outcome. In 1998 Tennessee almost lost 5 different times, 4 of the 5 times they almost lost they got incredible help from the referees. At some point you have to believe, where their is smoke there is fire

mcg24
02-15-2011, 10:13 PM
I can't respond to everybody at once. I can't really explain my entire theory or I would type more of a book than I have already typed but I believe guys like Lem Banker are out there to "muddy the water" all vegas needs to win is confusion. A gamblers odds when sports betting are 50/50, If analyst on Tv networks and all the so called experts point people away from the winner (meaning point spread winner) vegas will win!!!! If for no other reason what so ever, anyone legit giving information would have gave GB in the super bowl. If for no other reason because the favorite was due.

I believe Banker runs his own business. If so, why would he risk the credibility of his business just to help Vegas? Or is Vegas paying him the difference? Wow this is turning into a massive conspiracy.

tony hipchest
02-15-2011, 10:26 PM
Tony,
You make very good and intelligent points. If I were not a sports bettor, I promise you I would be saying the same thing. On one hand you have logic that tells you how the fix just couldn't take place and your coin flip example is a very compelling argument.

and you make some good points as well. i just so happen to believe that simple chance, the inherent flaws of humans making split decision judgement calls, and laws of probability win out when compared to the likelyhood of an elaborate conspiracy.

i was convinced the refs would influence the outcome of SB XLV, not because of bettors, but because i think goodell has that much of a hard on for the steelers, and their mean players such as james harrison, vocal players such as hines and troy, and a defiant owner who pretty much told him he can take his 18 game schedule and shove it up his ass.

my theory was proved wrong, and im glad it was. overall, the playoffs were called much looser than the regular season and the refs let the teams play in all games throughout.

i do believe basketball was fixed. i knew it when the refs robbed the kings vs the lakers years ago before donahey(?) got busted.

i agree the refs jobbed the steelers and troy vs the chargers in 08 when they won 11-10, and troys TD was wiped off the board.

i do not think the rule was correctly called this season when ike taylors int was wiped off the board vs the raiders due to a late james harrison hit. i cant remember an after the play foul enforced on the play itself.

troys int vs IND in 05? dont even get me started. i really think these examples have more to do with the refs being confused imbiciles moreso than a giant conspiracy. i do believe the refs have preconceived notions when they officiate a steelers game.

perhaps that is all part of the conspiracy. but ive seen it go other ways as well :noidea:

Smith91
02-15-2011, 10:50 PM
Tony,
When you say you have saw it go both ways, so have I but I always keep an eye on public opinion and public money being bet on the games. I have saw a lot of crazy calls in college and pro to change the win/loss on a point spread but that 08 pitt / sd game 11-10 is the one I use as an example...In my eyes, the only thing that would have made the fix any more obvious is if one the refs had tackled Troy before he got to paydirt. I am a steelers fan, on a steelers fan site so most of the examples I give have been steeler games. There have been so many games with weird calls that no effect on the outcome of the game but did on the point spread I can't help but to think something is wrong beyond simple human error...Again 08 steelers/SD game. I have watched the entire version on youtube many times and I keep seeing a stunned ref crew trying to take that TD off the board.

SteeleReign
02-16-2011, 01:03 PM
WHEW!! I can't believe I took the time to read ALL of this thread, but I must say it's one of the most entertaining I've read on here in a looong time.

It kinda reminds me of the movie "The Others" where the mom & kids think they are being haunted by ghosts only to find out in the end that THEY are dead & are actually the ghosts. Sorry Smith91, but I think you've lost your mind & the joke is on you.

But, let's say you're right.......WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU COME ON HERE & TRY TO RUIN THE GAME FOR THE REST OF US - YOU ARROGANT, SELF-SERVING, TWISTED A-HOLE?????!!!!!

Now I feel better - go Steelers!! Or Vegas....or refs...or "mofia" or whoever...I don't even know who to root for now...:banging:

Oh, and by the way Smith91, those guys in the black sedans with the sunglasses are your friends....:hug:

ebsteelers
02-16-2011, 02:51 PM
ok Ebsteelers,

I believe the reason you and I may have conflicting reports is because I watch the live ticker vegas runs per casino on money bet on each team. I am not extremely confident they are telling the truth on what side gamblers are riding, I am even less inclined to believe a internet or newspaper article. If the money is dead even on both sides, vegas makes 10% of the total amount bet on one side of the game. pitt/GB looked like fairly even money, within 2%. So for a second, stepping away from my theory that it is rigged, vegas shouldn't have cared who won the game because the money they make off either side is small in comparison to superbowls with bettors heavy on one side. And another thing that I have a hard time believing, casino sportsbooks only make 2% of their profit from sportsbetting? That, I have a real hard time believing unless millions are being pumped into the slots a day. Their are millions being placed on sporting events on a daily basis.

i have asked multiple gamblers and they all say sports betting is less than 5% of the revenue for vegas... almost of the money vegas makes is off table games and slots.


for someone who gambles, and thinks the nfl is fixed, you would think you'd have an idea of that.




sports maybe in small scope ala college hoops (crap conferences maybe fixed) refs got cash on no named teams, or players on the take... is 10000% different the super bowl or nfl being fixed.


like i said vegas doesnt bring in enough from sports betting to need to fix games

ricardisimo
02-16-2011, 02:59 PM
SteelersFever forums are fixed! There's no other explanation for why this thread has made it this far! I demand my money back!

tony hipchest
02-16-2011, 03:10 PM
SteelersFever forums are fixed! There's no other explanation for why this thread has made it this far! I demand my money back!my records indicate you are not on the subscription rate plan that allow you access to the main forum.

:chuckle:

Smith91
02-20-2011, 05:17 PM
Today is 2/20/11, The Daytona 500 was in play. If you read my prior post I mention no name drivers winning races. Today Trevor Bayne wins Daytona 500. Trevor is from Knoxville Tennessee, 20 years old, driving in the 2nd nascar race of his life. This is considered by nascar and fans to be the biggest race of the year. Did anybody in the country have a bet on Bayne to win??? I doubt it!!! Keep those eyes closed America and believe what the media tells you.

steelerchad
02-20-2011, 05:30 PM
Today is 2/20/11, The Daytona 500 was in play. If you read my prior post I mention no name drivers winning races. Today Trevor Bayne wins Daytona 500. Trevor is from Knoxville Tennessee, 20 years old, driving in the 2nd nascar race of his life. This is considered by nascar and fans to be the biggest race of the year. Did anybody in the country have a bet on Bayne to win??? I doubt it!!! Keep those eyes closed America and believe what the media tells you.

Jimmy Johnson won the cup again for like the 4th year in a row. You think anyone bet on him for any races in those years? What's your point? Darkhorses win sometimes. There was also a massive wreck today that took half the field with it. Are you suggesting NASCAR orchestrated the wreck to put Trevor Bayne in contention to win. If you are, then the tiny little bit of credibility I would have been willing to give you , just went out the window.

PS- I hate NASCAR and this is a Steeler Forum.

Smith91
02-20-2011, 05:44 PM
lol,
I am not suggesting anything like that. What I am suggesting is fact. Since vegas started taking bets on nascar, nascar is so unpredictable, if you look back in nascar history, drivers like Dave Marcus, Dick Trickle (lol at the name), etc never won a race. The same drivers race up front because they had better sponsors. Even Jeff Gordon drove a few years in this type era, so we are not talking that long ago. When vegas announced they would begin taking bets on nascar, that same year nascar changed all the rules to make all cars equal, the sponsorship no longer mattered. What I am suggesting is that nascar and vegas had to working together in order to make it work.

tony hipchest
02-20-2011, 05:53 PM
i am convinced you dont know shit about nascar.

ever hear of derrick cope or ward burton (both won the 500 LONG before vegas betting)?

trevor bayne wasnt even the big payout today. he was lumped in with the field at 25:1 odds.

(according to hilton superbooks) http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/6166528/nascar_daytona_500_2011_las_vegas_odds_pg3.html?ca t=14

.
former winners kenseth and newman were 30:1 odds.


gilliland (who finished 3rd) was the longshot at 1000:1


i dont know what point you are trying to make, but it is very lame and shows a complete lack of understanding of NASCAR racing.

bringing it into this discussion is completely irrelevant and just supports the side opposite of what you are trying to argue.

= FAIL.

mcg24
02-20-2011, 05:58 PM
i am convinced you dont know shit about nascar.






He was hoping that nobody here would know anything about Nascar or do any research to prove him wrong.

steelerchad
02-20-2011, 05:58 PM
lol,
I am not suggesting anything like that. What I am suggesting is fact. Since vegas started taking bets on nascar, nascar is so unpredictable, if you look back in nascar history, drivers like Dave Marcus, Dick Trickle (lol at the name), etc never won a race. The same drivers race up front because they had better sponsors. Even Jeff Gordon drove a few years in this type era, so we are not talking that long ago. When vegas announced they would begin taking bets on nascar, that same year nascar changed all the rules to make all cars equal, the sponsorship no longer mattered. What I am suggesting is that nascar and vegas had to working together in order to make it work.

OK. Reasonable, maybe. But Jimmy Johnson has won the chase the last 4 years in a row. Wouldn't that make him a betting favorite? So, why does he keep winning if there's foul play?
How bout this. Since you seem to have it figured out and have made big money betting on sports, why don't you post your best tips about the outcome of events before they happen and we'll jump on the bandwagon and make some money with you.

Smith91
02-20-2011, 07:35 PM
Believe what you want to believe. Cope won pre-betting. That is correct, but Cope was also a top 10 driver when he drove the tide car. Also, Cope specialized in big tracks. Guys like Mark Martin and Rusty Wallace were decent on large tracks but they specialized in road courses. Making the comparison between Cope and a guy that only raced in his 2nd race is hardly comparable. And with Ward Burton you are making my point, Burton won the daytona 500 the first year vegas took bets on a race.....I have heard Jimmy Johnsons name mentioned several times now, to bet on the points championship you have to place that bet before the 1st race. This is a 1 time bet that will last the whole season, not a lot of action for that type bet. Jimmy Johnson is also a posted boy for nascar, in the past 5 to 10 years nascar has tried to expand their fan base. Johnson is the guy that can help do that for nascar.

Smith91
02-20-2011, 07:45 PM
steelerchad,
I do bet NBA and College basketball. Just a little from time to time. If you want some basketball winners I will give you some. I will not carry you through the season, but if you want proof I know what I am talking about, Keep an eye on your pm and I will give you a few winners. I will say this up front, Miami Heat will stop covering the spread soon. All the football bettors are now on nba basketball so with more action, miami being the (hot topic) team. They will still win and of course make the playoffs but not cover ats. Since the superbowl miami is 2-3 ats. Look for that ats to get worse.

Smith91
02-21-2011, 12:35 AM
I WANT A SIMPLE EXPLANATION FOR THIS CALL....THIS IS ON YOUTUBE.. FIXED NFL GAMES? PITT WAS FAVORED BY 6 OVER SAN DIEGO, PITT WAS PENALIZED FOR OVER 150 INCLUDING THE REMOVAL OF 2 TD'S THIS GAME. SAN DIEGO 0 YARDS IN PENALTIES. WITH PITT WINNING 11-10, AN UNEXPECTED TD WAS REMOVED ON A BOGUS CALL. WATCH THIS AND YOU TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5YWfiq6zg0

ricardisimo
02-21-2011, 01:06 AM
So start placing your bets straight up, no spread. Problem solved.

SteelCityMom
02-21-2011, 01:42 AM
I WANT A SIMPLE EXPLANATION FOR THIS CALL....THIS IS ON YOUTUBE.. FIXED NFL GAMES? PITT WAS FAVORED BY 6 OVER SAN DIEGO, PITT WAS PENALIZED FOR OVER 150 INCLUDING THE REMOVAL OF 2 TD'S THIS GAME. SAN DIEGO 0 YARDS IN PENALTIES. WITH PITT WINNING 11-10, AN UNEXPECTED TD WAS REMOVED ON A BOGUS CALL. WATCH THIS AND YOU TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5YWfiq6zg0

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/gilsheadexplodes.gif

Buddha Bus
02-21-2011, 04:10 PM
HY-03vYYAjA

Smith91
02-21-2011, 10:05 PM
I could draw you guys a map to the truth and you couldn't find it. I told everyone here in my other threads Pitt would lose this Superbowl. I hated reporting that but I am never wrong, Then I tell you about nascar with the daytona 500 coming up and who wins? A 20 year old in only his second race? Pre-2002 meaning before vegas started taking bets on nascar this type stuff never happened. It didn't happen!!! You guys respond with some lame ass comment about a top 10 driver at the time being Derrick Cope winning a race. If I am not mistaking Cope won that race on the last lap because Earnhardt had a bird fly through his windshield. I could be wrong on this account but I am going off memory from years ago. Doesn't matter because Cope was a big name driver not some 20 year old that just stepped into a car. Since 02' nascar has completely changed. coincidentally that was the first year vegas took bets, or is it a coincidence? Oh, and for the gamblers, I can't predict nascar.

mcg24
02-21-2011, 10:09 PM
I am never wrong

Wow, you must be God.


I could be wrong on this account but I am going off memory from years ago.

Whoa direct contradiction, you are never wrong!


http://www.thoughttheater.com/StupidIsAsStupidDoes.jpg

tony hipchest
02-21-2011, 10:14 PM
what the hell are you talking about smith?

derick cope ****ing sucked!

2 wins, 32 top 10, and a single pole. i dont think he EVER finished a season higher than 15th in points, let alone be a top ten driver you contend him to be (i can name 20-30 drivers he raced with in his era that were 10X better).

young kids winning is the norm in todays nascar. it started with jeff gordon. (see kyle busch or denny hamlin) :doh:

its just as much a young mans game (as opposed to the days of dick trickle, harry gant and dave marcus) which has nothing to do with vegas or sports being fixed. youre over your head on this one.

mcg24
02-21-2011, 10:17 PM
what the hell are you talking about smith?

derick cope ****ing sucked!

2 wins, 32 top 10, and a single pole.

young kids winning is the norm in todays nascar. it started with jeff gordon. (see kyle busch or denny hamlin) :doh:

its just as much a young mans game (as opposed to the days of dick trickle, harry gant and dave marcus) which has nothing to do with vegas or sports being fixed. youre over your head on this one.

You think this should be moved to somewhere like the Blast Furnace? This thread has moved quite a ways away from Steelers football talk. Not telling you what to do; I just hate seeing this piece of shit of a thread whenever I want to talk about the Steelers.

SteelCityMom
02-21-2011, 10:34 PM
Naw...I'll send it to the locker room, since it's more about Vegas than the Steelers. Meant to the other day and then forgot.

MasterOfPuppets
02-21-2011, 11:11 PM
what the hell are you talking about smith?

derick cope ****ing sucked!

.
cope was the bengals of nascar ...even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile...:chuckle:

Smith91
02-21-2011, 11:20 PM
You are twisting the words again. I said I was never wrong, talking about the superbowl winners, not my memory on nascar mcg24. All you do is try and twist my words. If you took the time took read the post you would respond better. And as for Derrick Cope, He was a top 10 driver in the points for most of the year for several years when he drove the tide car. That same car he won the daytona 500. My point all along has been (when referring to nascar) is that since 2002 guys that are completely unknown have won a lot of races. Example Bayne!!!!!!!!! Cope was a known driver, he had raced for years and although he was no Dale Earnhardt he did win a few races and had a lot of top 5 and 10 finishes. He got lucky and won, in nascar it happens sometimes but not like what has took place in the last 9 years.

I will agree with Tony on one thing. Young guys winning did start with Jeff Gordon, He was put into a great car with a great team from the start of his career. If you claim to know nascar and have looked at some stats you will see that in 2002 the rule change allowed every car to be equal and less about sponsorship. I see that as a good thing for the sport but the concern to me was that vegas immediately began taking bets for the first time on nascar. The entire image of nascar changed very fast, by the way Harry Gant should never be mentioned the same category as Dave Marcus and Dick Trickle. Gant won 21 races.

tony hipchest
02-21-2011, 11:28 PM
derrike cope won the daytona 500 in the #10 chevy purolator. he finished the season 18th in points...ZZZZZZ. in his entire career (if you can call it that) from '83-'09 he only has 2 wins and 32 top 10's.

that flat out sucks. he was fired from too many rides to count. the year he won the 500 he was one of the suckiest drivers in the field. i was being too kind when i said i could name atleast 20-30 drivers he drove with in his era who were 10X better. i could name 20-30 in that year alone who were.

in the entire span of his career, there are easilly 100+ drivers 10X better (thats not even counting kids like logano, bayne, and hamlin).

and harry gant should be mentioned along with dick trickle and dave marcis. they all raced well beyond the age of 50. you will rarely see that any more. former champions like the labonte brothers cant even get full time rides any more. kids are getting signed at the age of 15 to start the minor leagues.

that has nothing to do with vegas.

Smith91
02-21-2011, 11:35 PM
Derrick Cope won the daytona 500 in 1990, Earnhardt ran over a piece of metal and his tire went flat. He had a half track lead on Cope. Cope won 2 races that year, had 2 top 5 finishes and 6 top 10 finishes. He ran 29 races. He had a good year by his standards. Like I said, He is not top driver for career stats but he had several years that he ran good. If you will look at the last 9 years you will see that drivers that no longer race because they lack talent and can't even get a ride have won races. A few drivers from formula-1 have won races in the first attempt in a nascar race. Formula-1 drivers had said it is a tough adjustment from formula-1 to nascar, the cars handle so different. Dana Kirkpatrick was one of the drivers that said this when she first made the change.

tony hipchest
02-21-2011, 11:41 PM
I WANT A SIMPLE EXPLANATION FOR THIS CALL....THIS IS ON YOUTUBE.. FIXED NFL GAMES? PITT WAS FAVORED BY 6 OVER SAN DIEGO, PITT WAS PENALIZED FOR OVER 150 INCLUDING THE REMOVAL OF 2 TD'S THIS GAME. SAN DIEGO 0 YARDS IN PENALTIES. WITH PITT WINNING 11-10, AN UNEXPECTED TD WAS REMOVED ON A BOGUS CALL. WATCH THIS AND YOU TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5YWfiq6zg0

you want a simple answer? i will let you in on something that the rest of the world knows and you obviously dont.

the refs are dumbass morons who can only pull their heads out of their rear ends long enough to throw a flag.

everybody knows this. half the time it seems the players, coaches and fans know the rules better than they do.

hell the game you cite is a perfect example. the refs didnt even know that a game winning td as time expires or in OT doesnt require the extra kick... = game over.

how does that fit your theory that the refs were intentionally trying to take points off the board when they had the steelers line up to kick an extra point when time had expired and the game was already over 17-10?

again your 2 examples are piss poor.

could a ref who declared it a illegal lateral had some money on the game? absolutely. either that or he is a mental midget.

does that mean theres some giant conspiracy? i think not.

tony hipchest
02-21-2011, 11:44 PM
A few drivers from formula-1 have won races in the first attempt in a nascar race.

who?

If you will look at the last 9 years you will see that drivers that no longer race because they lack talent and can't even get a ride have won races.

who?

and then please explain why the hell you would offer evidence to counter your own point.

thanks.

Smith91
02-21-2011, 11:54 PM
You can google race results. Look at 1979 to present and see the difference. All these rookie drivers you talk about have all came up in the last 9 years. Are you telling me there were no good rookie drivers pre-2002?? I am not talking about 1 here and 1 there. From 1990 to 2001, rookies that made any type of impact were Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, maybe Kurt Busch. Now I am talking about making an impact as a rookie or even second year. Kyle Busch is a good driver now but it took him a few years to develop. Prior to 2002 this is you list.
Here is a list of the new drivers


A. J. Allmendinger United States California 43 2007 116 0 3 16 1 19th (2010)
Marcos Ambrose Australia Tasmania 9 2007 83 0 7 13 0 18th (2009)
Greg Biffle United States Washington (U.S. state) 16 2003 294 16 66 113 6 2nd (2005)
Dave Blaney United States Ohio 36 2000 362 0 3 27 2 19th (2002)
Clint Bowyer United States Kansas 33 2006 181 4 27 79 2 3rd (2007)
Jeff Burton United States Virginia 31 1994 583 21 128 237 6 3rd (2000)
Kurt Busch United States Nevada 22 2001 364 22 80 153 12 1st (2004)
Kyle Busch United States Nevada 18 2005 222 19 66 103 7 5th (2007)
Dale Earnhardt, Jr. United States North Carolina 88 2000 399 19 91 150 9 3rd (2003)
Carl Edwards United States Missouri 99 2004 229 18 70 118 7 2nd (2005, 2008)
David Gilliland United States California 34 2006 150 0 2 4 2 27th (2008)
Jeff Gordon United States California 24 1993 617 82 274 378 69 1st (1995, 1997–1998, 2001)
Denny Hamlin United States Virginia 11 2006 187 16 61 97 9 2nd (2010)
Kevin Harvick United States California 29 2001 358 14 77 155 5 3rd (2010)
Jimmie Johnson United States California 48 2002 327 53 134 203 25 1st (2006–2010)
Kasey Kahne United States Washington (U.S. state) 4 2004 252 11 49 87 20 8th (2006)
Matt Kenseth United States Wisconsin 17 2000 400 18 101 189 4 1st (2003)
Brad Keselowski United States Michigan 2 2009 53 1 1 6 1 25th (2010)
Travis Kvapil United States Wisconsin 38 2005 146 0 0 6 1 23rd (2008)
Bobby Labonte United States Texas 47 1993 618 21 114 199 26 1st (2000)
Joey Logano United States Connecticut 20 2009 75 1 10 23 1 16th (2010)
Mark Martin United States Arkansas 5 1982 794 40 264 428 49 2nd (1990, 1994, 1998, 2002, 2009)
Michael McDowell United States Arizona 66 2008 52 0 0 0 0 40th (2008)
Jamie McMurray United States Missouri 1 2003 294 6 39 92 7 11th (2004)
Casey Mears United States California 13 2003 273 1 12 46 3 14th (2006)
Paul Menard United States Wisconsin 27 2007 147 0 2 8 1 23th (2010)
Juan Pablo Montoya Colombia 42 2007 145 2 18 41 4 8th (2009)
Joe Nemechek United States Florida 87 1994 551 4 18 62 10 15th (2000)
Ryan Newman United States Indiana 39 2002 332 14 72 135 45 6th (2002, 2003, 2005)
David Ragan United States Georgia (U.S. state) 6 2007 137 0 8 22 0 13th (2008)
David Reutimann United States Florida 00 2007 135 2 11 23 3 16th (2009)
Regan Smith United States New York 78 2008 95 0 0 0 0 28th (2010)
Tony Stewart United States Indiana 14 1999 428 39 153 247 12 1st (2002, 2005)
Martin Truex Jr. United States New Jersey 56 2004 189 1 14 44 5 11th (2007)
Brian Vickers United States North Carolina 83 2003 219 2 18 50 11 12th (2009)
J. J. Yeley United States Arizona 46 2006 112 0 2 7 1 21st (2007)

Smith91
02-22-2011, 12:06 AM
Tony,

It is you that doesn't know the rules. You may want to do some research my friend. The extra point is always kicked in the NFL even if no time is left on the clock!!!!!!!!!!!! The only situation were there is no extra point is a TD scored in Overtime!!!!! OMG i can't believe you guys miss this so bad. And taking those points off the board is exactly my point. pitt was winning by one point, that TD put them covering the spread of 6.....ell yes, something was definitely wrong with that picture, if it makes you feel better thinking the refs are idiots then think it. The refs are not idiots, in fact they are very smart.

tony hipchest
02-22-2011, 12:07 AM
heres the list from 1990 of drivers who are 10X better than derrike cope (listed in order of final point standings)-

i would probably throw out brett bodine, and several in the list arent quite 10X better, but in all reality, he was a nobody scrub compared to the rest on this list.

1.Dale Earnhardt - 4430
2.Mark Martin - 4404
3.Geoff Bodine - 4017
4.Bill Elliott - 3999
5.Morgan Shepherd - 3689
6.Rusty Wallace - 3676
7.Ricky Rudd - 3601
8.Alan Kulwicki - 3599
9.Ernie Irvan - 3593
10.Ken Schrader - 3572
11.Kyle Petty - 3501
12.Brett Bodine - 3440
13.Davey Allison - 3423
14.Sterling Marlin - 3387
15.Terry Labonte - 3371
16.Michael Waltrip - 3251
17.Harry Gant - 3182
18.Derrike Cope - 3140


20.Darrell Waltrip - 3013
21.Dave Marcis - 2944
22.Dick Trickle - 2863

24.Jimmy Spencer - 2579
25.Dale Jarrett - 2558
26.Richard Petty - 2556

31.Rick Mast - 1719

41.Buddy Baker - 498

43.Neil Bonnett - 455

Smith91
02-22-2011, 12:10 AM
Look them up,

Rules for NFL football- Td scored without time remaining on the clock, the extra point is still to be kicked. OT this does not apply.
College football- A td scored without time remaining doesn't require the extra point.

look it up, it is fact

Smith91
02-22-2011, 12:18 AM
Ok Tony,
I know Cope finished 18th that year but he was at the front in almost every race. Meaning he was a contender even if he didn't win. A couple of DNF's will destroy a driver in the points. I think you are totally missing my point, Cope a driver of 88 races prior to winning the daytona 500, ( and again it was luck, he shouldn't have won that race) but was running 2nd. Cope always ran near the front of the pack----this is 1990 we are talking about. Now 2011, A guy driving his 2nd race of his life Bayne wins daytona 500, I see a big difference. Your saying this is legit because their are great young drivers today correct??? I say something is wrong because their were great young drivers 15 years ago but they didn't win. I keep going back to 2002 and the strange way all of nascar changed.

tony hipchest
02-22-2011, 12:20 AM
i'll take your word for it. my point still stands. the refs completely bumbled that game or one had a bet on it. still doesnt mean theres some huge conspiracy.

while the refs may be smart, they are still just minor part time employees of the NFL who have proven themselves they cant keep up with the rules or the shades of grey the rule book is painted with.

Smith91
02-22-2011, 12:37 AM
ok Tony,
Again we can agree or at least partially agree. with your last post. I took the time to look up a nascar stat. I did this totally random, I picked 1979 because Earnhardt was a rookie driver. There were 31 races that year.
Darrell Waltrip won 7, Richard Petty 5, Bobby Allison 5, Cale Yarborough 4, Buddy Baker 3, Neil Bonnett 3, Benny Parsons won 2, David Pearson won 1, and rookie Dale Earnhardt won 1. So out of 31 races 9 different drivers won at least one race. All these drivers will be inducted into the hall of fame. Earnhardt was the only one in question back in 79 and obviously he is a HOF driver. Compare those 9 different winners to last year. I honestly have not looked at any of the stats but I bet there were a lot more winners last year. Again 79 was random, I will do any year you want to do in this comparison pre 2002 to post 2002. My point to this is, when vegas started taking bets nascar became unpredictable.

Smith91
02-22-2011, 12:46 AM
Tony,
another thing about that steeler game, If it were just that game we were talking about I would totally agree with you. I have just saw so many games, pre -youtube that happened in the same manner that I have become a complete conspiracy theorist. youtube is around for you to see it, me telling you about it doesn't have the same effect as you watching it yourself. No kidding, I can ramble off over 100 games from 1995 to present that have had defining calls both college and pro that have influenced the point spread only but not the game. Bogus calls, no calls, and I have took the human error into account but on the calls I am referring it is just obvious. If a game is in question and I think the ref could have missed the call via human error I toss it from the bank, otherwise it is noted. Games that range from an obvious td not called a td to a team getting 5 downs instead of 4, to a phantom holding call when the player wasn't even in the game.

MasterOfPuppets
02-22-2011, 12:52 AM
Derrick Cope won the daytona 500 in 1990, Earnhardt ran over a piece of metal and his tire went flat. He had a half track lead on Cope. Cope won 2 races that year, had 2 top 5 finishes and 6 top 10 finishes. He ran 29 races. He had a good year by his standards. Like I said, He is not top driver for career stats but he had several years that he ran good. If you will look at the last 9 years you will see that drivers that no longer race because they lack talent and can't even get a ride have won races. A few drivers from formula-1 have won races in the first attempt in a nascar race. Formula-1 drivers had said it is a tough adjustment from formula-1 to nascar, the cars handle so different. Dana Kirkpatrick was one of the drivers that said this when she first made the change.
Danica patrick , drives indy cars , not formula one. :popcorn:

tony hipchest
02-22-2011, 12:56 AM
13 drivers won last year and all but 3 of them (reutimann, newman, and montoya) won 2 or more.

nascar has stayed the same or become MORE predictable.

since vegas started taking bets, you can almost guarantee that either a hendrick, rousch, or gibbs owned car will win the cup.

nascar is as predictable as it has ever been. a single car team such as the wood bros winning in an anomaly. it is the exception, not the rule.

AND HERE IS WHERE YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG.

yes things have changed since 2001.

1) dale earnhardt died and the sport has been made safer (similar cars that are easier to regulate).
2) conglomerate of multi car teams and big time corporate sponsors (in 1990 all but 3 hendrick cars were single car teams).
3) big television deals and ratings.
4) expansion and rule changes to keep ratings up.

vegas is just trying to get in on some of the action but they are most certainly not driving the action. :dang:

if you didnt worship vegas so much you might see things for the reality in which they exist.

EDIT- its worthy to note that NASCAR has actually failed in its attempts to make it LESS PREDICTABLE with its 10 race "Chase for the Championship", in which jimmy johnson has won 5 X straight. how the hell can you even say nascar is unpredictable.

lets face it... you thought you could throw out some bullshit to make your point, gambling on the fact that nobody would know jack shit (much like yourself) about NASCAR on a steelers board. well you were wrong.

tony hipchest
02-22-2011, 01:25 AM
I can ramble off over 100 games from 1995 to present that have had defining calls both college and pro that have influenced the point spread only but not the game. Bogus calls, no calls, and I have took the human error into account but on the calls I am referring it is just obvious.

and i can ramble off atleast 10,000 games during the same timespan where no bogus calls influenced the pointspread or the game.

law of averages, bud.

when it comes to judgement calls and human error, you can expect atleast 1 out of 10 games to be affected. vegas most certainly factors this in, but in the case of the NFL they dont routinely influence it.

case closed.

mcg24
02-22-2011, 08:10 PM
All you do is try and twist my words.

How could I possibly be twisting your words when I am taking direct quotes from you. Now you could say I'm taking your words out of context, but I'm not even doing that. I just enjoy challenging those full of hubris.