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MasterOfPuppets
02-24-2011, 06:10 PM
in the last 3 days its went up 3 times and 20 cents around here. 3.29 a gallon..:doh:

i bet we see 4.50 by july 4th.

MasterOfPuppets
02-24-2011, 06:17 PM
the top 15 countries we import from.... but yet libya is the excuse for the increase.

CANADA
MEXICO
SAUDI ARABIA
VENEZUELA
NIGERIA
ALGERIA
RUSSIA
COLOMBIA
IRAQ
ANGOLA
VIRGIN ISLANDS
BRAZIL
ECUADOR
UNITED KINgdom
KUWAIT

SteelCityMom
02-24-2011, 06:18 PM
You can thank Libya for that.

Prices might decrease a little bit here though...

Oil prices fall as Libya production fears ease
Oil settles below $98 as fears of serious oil disruptions recede; IEA, Saudis stand ready
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Oil-prices-fall-as-Libya-apf-771611134.html?x=0

SteelCityMom
02-24-2011, 06:31 PM
the top 15 countries we import from.... but yet libya is the excuse for the increase.

"It doesn't matter what the supply is here," analyst and trader Stephen Schork said. "America is in competition with Europe and Asia and everywhere else for oil. And when there's a shortage somewhere, it pushes prices everywhere else."

"Crude has soared 18 percent since Feb. 15 while anti-government protests swept through some countries in North Africa and the Middle East. Thursday's drop suggests that traders "are starting to recognize that prices have become overextended," said Tom Kloza, publisher and chief oil analyst at Oil Price Information Service.The recent surge in oil, called the "fear premium" by energy traders, will continue to flow through energy markets and could push retail gasoline prices as much as 30 to 40 cents higher than previously expected, experts said."


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Oil-prices-fall-as-Libya-apf-771611134.html?x=0

fer522
02-24-2011, 06:52 PM
this is really gonna help our economy

MasterOfPuppets
02-24-2011, 10:23 PM
interesting article from 2008 , outlining just how big oil AND politicians are bending the american people over...



WASHINGTON, July 3 (Reuters) - While the U.S. oil industry wants access to more federal lands to help reduce reliance on foreign suppliers, American-based companies are shipping record amounts of gasoline and diesel fuel to other countries.
A record 1.6 million barrels a day in U.S. refined petroleum products were exported during the first four months of this year, up 33 percent from 1.2 million barrels a day over the same period in 2007. Shipments this February topped 1.8 million barrels a day for the first time during any month, according to final numbers from the Energy Department.
The surge in exports appears to contradict the pleas from the U.S. oil industry and the Bush administration for Congress to open more offshore waters and Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling.
"We can help alleviate shortages by drilling for oil and gas in our own country," President Bush told reporters this week. "We have got the opportunity to find more crude oil here at home."
"As a nation, we can have more control over our energy destiny by supplying more of the oil and natural gas we'll be consuming from resources here at home," Red Cavaney, president of the American Petroleum Institute, said in a letter last week to U.S. lawmakers.
But environmentalists and other opponents to expanding drilling areas could seize on the record exports to argue Congress should not open more acres if U.S. refineries are churning crude oil into petroleum products that are sent out of the American market.
"It doesn't look good to say: 'We need more oil.' But then export the refined products that you're getting. It doesn't seem to be consistent," said Jim Presswood, energy lobbyist for the Natural Resources Defense Council.
No, it sure doesn't look good. So how does the oil industry justify its record exports?
But many energy experts say oil and petroleum products are traded globally, and it may make economic sense to export gasoline refined along the U.S. Gulf Coast to Latin America and import European-refined gasoline to U.S. East Coast markets.
"The fact is that the (United States) participates in global markets for both crude and refined products, and there are any number of variables that impact supply and prices in those markets," said Bill Holbrook, spokesman for the National Petrochemicals and Refiners Association.
The White House said it was against requiring U.S. oil products to stay at home.
"Forbidding exports of U.S. petroleum reduces the incentive for domestic suppliers to produce, and could potentially lead to higher prices if U.S. production or refining declined," said White House spokesman Scott Stanzel.
And why would production or refining decline if exports were restricted? Why wouldn't production and refining remain constant, increase domestic gasoline and diesel supplies, and reduce prices?
The answer is simple: the oil giants don't want to reduce prices in the U.S., even though they easily could!
The 1.6 million barrels a day in record petroleum exports represented 9 percent of total U.S. refining capacity of 17.6 million barrels a day.
However, with refiners operating at 85 percent of capacity during the January-April period, the shipments represented a much a larger share of total U.S. oil products produced.
Let's do the math: 85% of 17.6 million = 15 million, so the 1.6 million in exports is 11% of actual refining.
If refinery operations were increased to 91% of capacity, that would add over 1 million barrels of refined products to the marketplace, which could be sold either in the U.S. or abroad.
The exports were also equal to half the 3.2 million barrels of gasoline, diesel fuel and other petroleum products the United States imported each day over the 4-month period.
The biggest share of U.S. oil products exported went to Mexico, Canada, Chile, Singapore and Brazil.
Singapore? That's an awfully long way from Latin America.
U.S. consumers are paying record prices for gasoline and diesel fuel, which the Bush administration blames in part on tight supplies.
Obviously the only reason supplies are tight is because (a) refineries are operating well below capacity and (b) record amounts are being exported.
While the administration argues that more supplies would help to bring down prices, U.S exports of diesel fuel in April averaged 387,000 barrels per day, up almost seven-fold from 59,000 barrels a day in the same month a year earlier.
U.S. gasoline shipments in April averaged 202,000 barrels a day, the most for the month since 1945, when America was sending fuel overseas to ease supply shortages in other countries during World War II. Gasoline exports in April 2007 were almost half at 116,000 barrels per day.
Residual fuel exports in April were 377,000 barrels per day, the fourth highest level for any month, and up 10 percent from 344,000 barrels per day a year earlier.
John Felmy, the chief economist at the American Petroleum Institute, said a portion of the oil products exported, especially diesel, was fuel that did not meet U.S. clean air requirements and therefore could not be sold in America. "You may have some that you're not able to use," he said.
Felmy is lying; the same diesel consumed in the U.S. one year ago is not too dirty to consume here now.
Also, while U.S. gasoline demand is down due to high prices and a weak American economy, there is "strong economic growth outside the United States" where fuel is often subsidized and demand is high, said John Cook, director of EIA's Petroleum Division.
However, both the EIA and API admitted they did not know why daily U.S. gasoline exports to Canada skyrocketed to 41,000 barrels in January-April this year from 9,000 barrels in 2007.
Oops - EIA and API were caught lying again!
The EIA said more U.S. diesel is going to Latin American to fuel power plants because of a shortage of natural gas in the region, and China has switched to diesel from coal to run some of its generating facilities in order to reduce smog ahead of the summer Olympics next month in Beijing.
When Republicans demand offshore oil drilling, why don't Democrats respond by demanding reductions in gasoline and diesel exports?
To answer Newt Gingrich's "drill here, drill now," Democrats could simply say: sell here, sell now!


http://www.democrats.com/gas-prices-soar-because-of-record-gas-exports

MasterOfPuppets
03-06-2011, 02:11 PM
we're up to 3.49 now.

Atlanta Dan
03-06-2011, 04:56 PM
$3.65 for 93 octane in Atlanta - more expensive at some stations (premium is a ripoff but in my owners manual it states that is what is required for the engine)

I now am back above the $50 level to fill a 15 gallon tank

MACH1
03-06-2011, 05:26 PM
in the last 3 days its went up 3 times and 20 cents around here. 3.29 a gallon..:doh:

i bet we see 4.50 by july 4th.

I'm bettin it's closer to $5. :noidea:

MasterOfPuppets
03-09-2011, 10:55 AM
Gadhafi forces hit oil facilities in central Libya

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/af_libya

:banging: there's another excuse for em to gouge us at the pump.

fer522
03-09-2011, 03:08 PM
it's already $4.29 in San Francisco

hell it'll be$6.00 by July 4th

steelax04
03-09-2011, 03:23 PM
:banging: there's another excuse for em to gouge us at the pump.

Libya isn't the excuse. The excuse is that the same amount of demand is now being put a smaller number of suppliers (countries). Oil is a global commodity, you can really take the names of the countries right out of the equation.

MasterOfPuppets
03-10-2011, 06:11 PM
and here comes 5 bucks a gallon folks.....:banging:

Saudi unrest escalates, police open fire at protest


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42013013/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa

stb_steeler
03-10-2011, 07:00 PM
Im tradinin in for one of these

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp127/angieartis/Eli%20Stutzman/amish.jpg

MACH1
03-11-2011, 10:41 AM
and here comes 5 bucks a gallon folks.....:banging:

Saudi unrest escalates, police open fire at protest


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42013013/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa

Yep.

We'll be lucky if it stays below $10 the way things are going.

And with the commander n cowardliness blocking every attempt to pump, drill for our own oil. Remember "under my plan energy costs would necessarily skyrocket".

MasterOfPuppets
03-11-2011, 02:17 PM
Im tradinin in for one of these

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp127/angieartis/Eli%20Stutzman/amish.jpg

i just ordered one of these ....

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1eXTkEBby9zE5X2ZdIExDZQGuD5y9U 040-IrAcAgxcrK_3hMV

i "picked up" a chinese engine from a local restaurant... my engine keeps threating to call the cops for kidnapping...:doh:

MasterOfPuppets
03-11-2011, 02:31 PM
3.59 now

SteelCityMom
03-11-2011, 02:37 PM
Just get a hybrid...or a full EV.

EV's aren't convenient for long road trips (yet)...but most of them have a range of 100 miles now (some get more), which is more than enough for most people to get to work and back, and take care of errands.

http://www.hybridcars.com/electric-car

MasterOfPuppets
03-11-2011, 02:51 PM
Just get a hybrid...or a full EV.

EV's aren't convenient for long road trips (yet)...but most of them have a range of 100 miles now (some get more), which is more than enough for most people to get to work and back, and take care of errands.

http://www.hybridcars.com/electric-car
can you imagine the rolling black outs if everyone starts "plugging in " their cars...:doh:

there won't be much difference between being at the mercy of oil companies , or being at the mercy of electric companies.

the batteries are made out of lithium ... they discovered a huge lithium depost in afghanistan... coincidence ???

SteelCityMom
03-11-2011, 03:07 PM
can you imagine the rolling black outs if everyone starts "plugging in " their cars...:doh:

there won't be much difference between being at the mercy of oil companies , or being at the mercy of electric companies.

Because of full EV cars that average 23 KWh (hybrids are significantly less)?

That's the equivalent of 23 100 watt lightbulbs (or appliances in similar wattage) being on for 10 hours. It's really not that much.

MasterOfPuppets
03-11-2011, 03:24 PM
Because of full EV cars that average 23 KWh (hybrids are significantly less)?

That's the equivalent of 23 100 watt lightbulbs (or appliances in similar wattage) being on for 10 hours. It's really not that much.
for now maybe... but wait till a hundred million of these cars start demanding a charge. the electric companies will take up the "supply and demand " philosophy that the oil companies use to rape the consumer.

SteelCityMom
03-11-2011, 03:25 PM
As for cost (mind you, this was written 2 years ago)...

What Does It Cost To Operate an Electric Car?

* June 11th, 2008 3:29 pm ET


Chevy Volt Concept Car

Electric cars, particularly gas electric hybrid cars, have the potential to lower our gasoline costs. But do they really save us any money?

First, how much does the electricity cost to charge a car? A gallon of gasoline has the equivalent energy content of 37 KWA of electricity. To compare costs, we have to factor for engine efficiency. A gasoline car engine has an efficiency of about 30% converting the gasoline into actual mechanical power. An electric engine has an efficiency of about 95%, so it essentially converts all of the electric power into mechanical energy.

Assuming an average electric cost of 8.7 cents per KWA, the equivalent of a gallon of gasoline would cost $1.02. [(0.087 * 37 / 0.95) * 0.3] If you can get your electric power at off-peak rates available from some utilities, your cost may be half this much.

This, however, is not the whole cost. You also have to count the cost of the battery. Assume an electric car battery will last for 4,000 charge cycles in the car and holds the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline (about 12 KWH). Batteries deteriorate with age so the battery will hold less power over time. The distance a car will go on a charge will deteriorate to the point that the battery will need to be replaced. The battery may still be useful to a stationary application like storing energy at a wind farm where charge capacity vs. weight or size is not an issue.

If the battery costs $4,000 dollars then each charge will cost you $1.00 for the electricity and $1.00 for use of the battery; a total fuel cost of $2.00 per gallon. If the battery cost goes up to $12,000 then your fuel cost is actually $4.00 per gallon.

So the battery cost is a big determining factor on how much ‘fuel’ savings you will receive from your electric car. Note that the mpg rating of the car is not a factor in this computation. It only assumes that the battery is replacing one gallon of gasoline.

There are numerous other factors that affect the cost of ownership for a hybrid electric vehicle:

* The car may require much less maintenance.
* The car without the battery may cost less than the equivalent gasoline powered car.
* The battery may have value after the end of its useful life in the car.
* A car may be purchased and the battery leased where you only pay the difference between the value new vs. the residual value plus financing charge.
* The price of gasoline may keep going up.
* The availability of off-peak power pricing.
* The cost of charging a car away from home. Some businesses my offer free or discount charging as a loss leader for shopping at their store. The equivalent of selling milk below cost.
* Government and utility credits.


Continue reading on Examiner.com: What Does It Cost To Operate an Electric Car? - National Global Warming | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/global-warming-in-national/what-does-it-cost-to-operate-an-electric-car#ixzz1GKQCDkHT


On his Founder's Blog, Eberhard writes, "Every answer I have seen to this question has been squishy, and looking back, my own answers have been squishy too. The reason is that you don't buy electricity the way you buy gasoline." It's fairly easy to calculate how much you pay per-mile to drive a gas-powered car. "You can see how far a tank of gas takes you, do a little division, and you can say that your car burns, say, 15 cents of gasoline per mile. Simple." But electricity is more complicated. The cost of charging your electric car would vary based on where you live, what time of day you charge the car, etc.

Using rates from his own local utility, Eberhard concludes, "A Tesla Roadster will cost something between 2 cents a mile and 6 cents a mile."

Autoblog Green notes, "At $4.00 a gallon, a car that gets over 40 miles per gallon would still cost double" that amount "per mile to operate."

If you're curious about your own potential costs, Eberhard has provided the spreadsheet he used to do his math for download.

Edmunds Inside Line comments that whatever your results may be, "the simple answer is," electricity costs "less than gas."

That's true...somewhat. We should note that the math doesn't address how "green" it is to power an electric car. The increased electrical usage may come from a less-than-clean electrical plant, for instance. An electric car plugged into a wall socket that receives its power from a coal-burning power plant is...well...a fossil-fuel powered car. It may produce lower emissions than a gasoline-powered car, but it isn't necessarily a free lunch.

Of course, Eberhard's calculations were about finances, not emission. The Tesla Roadster's six-figure price tag makes cost-to-own calculations academic for many of us -- we aren't going to be able to buy the car, anyway. But with electric Nissans, electric MINIs, electric Mitsubishis and perhaps even electric BMWs on the way, it's probably time to start doing the math.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/080908-How-Much-Does-it-Cost-to-Drive-an-Electric-Car-/

SteelCityMom
03-11-2011, 03:27 PM
for now maybe... but wait till a hundred million of these cars start demanding a charge. the electric companies will take up the "supply and demand " philosophy that the oil companies use to rape the consumer.

Maybe...or maybe it'll stay the same or even get cheaper. Electric is already much cheaper (along with easier and more readily available) than gasoline anyway. Plus you don't need to (or won't) import it.

Of course it'll probably go up some though. That would just be expected. I doubt it would ever be at the cost of oil though. Just my opinion on it though.

Of course, this is all contingent on if the hippies stop trying to shut down nuclear power plants or not. :chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
03-11-2011, 03:32 PM
like i said, those figures are based on rates at the time the articles are written.
let the electric companies get a monopoly on transpertation and watch the greed be unleashed on the people....their prices will skyrocket once they got us all by the balls like oil companies do now.

MACH1
03-11-2011, 03:34 PM
Just get a hybrid...or a full EV.

EV's aren't convenient for long road trips (yet)...but most of them have a range of 100 miles now (some get more), which is more than enough for most people to get to work and back, and take care of errands.

http://www.hybridcars.com/electric-car

Get ya a pair of nikie express's. :chuckle:

http://company-directory.rusbiz.com/user_images/en/prod_logo/1831029474494fa2f99db71.jpg

MasterOfPuppets
03-11-2011, 03:51 PM
So the battery cost is a big determining factor on how much ‘fuel’ savings you will receive from your electric car.

this is HUGE.... once you spend the 25 or 30k for the car ... how much are they going to gouge you for the replacement batteries every couple years ?
i have a few tools that run off of lithium ion batteries. it costs almost as much for a replacement battery as it does to just buy a new tool with the battery...:doh:

SteelCityMom
03-11-2011, 03:56 PM
this is HUGE.... once you spend the 25 or 30k for the car ... how much are they going to gouge you for the replacement batteries every couple years ?
i have a few tools that run off of lithium ion batteries. it costs almost as much for a replacement battery as it does to just buy a new tool with the battery...:doh:

Depends on how pricey they get...

If the battery costs $4,000 dollars then each charge will cost you $1.00 for the electricity and $1.00 for use of the battery; a total fuel cost of $2.00 per gallon. If the battery cost goes up to $12,000 then your fuel cost is actually $4.00 per gallon.


You can also have a conversion done on your own car (most models and makes) to make it electric. It still costs a bit of money...but it's cheaper than buying a brand new car. Plus you can always buy used if you want.

If it makes any difference to you...I'm dirt cheap (no, not THAT way), and I'm considering getting one (we need a new 2nd car anyhow though).

I suppose it's not cost efficient if you don't already need a new car, but IMO the cost of battery is a wash because EVs are cheaper to maintain in every other aspect.

*Edit* Did a quick search and found this...

How Much Do Electric Car Batteries Cost

* Bookmark and Share
*

electric car batteries on wheels

The price of different electric car batteries varies depending on the size and type of battery you want. All batteries are rechargeable and last for about 7 years, so you will not have to worry about electric car battery cost very often. Most expenses associated with your electric car's battery will be for recharging. Since this technology
is relatively new, there are not many electric car battery companies that only produce batteries for electric cars, so you should search for this type of battery at electric car manufacturers. Different batteries will be priced differently based on the size of the batteries and the materials they are made from.

Size and Materials

The cheapest variety of battery available for electric cars is made of lead and can go from $100 to $140, depending on the battery's size. This type of battery has to be recharged about once every 150 miles. The most expensive material to use in a car battery is lithium. Lithium batteries for electric cars can go for anywhere between $500 and $650, but they only have to be recharged every three hundred miles. They also last longer than any other type of battery for an electric car. There are many sizes available for each type of battery, and smaller sizes are usually cheaper with a lower energy capacity. Other materials commonly used to make electric car batteries include nickel and metal hydride, NiCd, zinc and molten salt. These other materials are much less commonly used than lead-acid and lithium ions or polymers. Lead batteries also weigh the most.

http://www.carsdirect.com/electric-cars/how-much-do-electric-car-batteries-cost

MasterOfPuppets
03-20-2011, 09:10 PM
Average cost of gasoline rises to $3.57 a gallon

Cost continues to increase amid worries about Middle East stability


NEW YORK Gasoline prices in the United States rose 6.65 cents per gallon over a two-week period, carried by the rise in crude oil prices stemming from the turmoil in Libya, an industry analyst said.
The national average for a gallon of self-serve, regular gasoline was $3.57 on March 18, according to the Lundberg Survey of about 2,500 gas stations.
The 6.65-cent increase came two weeks after gasoline prices jumped almost 33 cents in the prior two-week period, according to survey editor Trilby Lundberg.
"This is the rest of what crude oil prices did to gasoline, as violence and protest in varying degrees swept through" oil-producing countries in the Middle East and Africa, Lundberg said in an interview on Sunday.
Prices in crude oil "declined somewhat in the last two weeks," she said, citing some traders' fears that the earthquake, tsunami and nuclear crisis in Japan "might mean economic devastation."
But after U.S. and European forces started a military intervention in Libya this weekend, oil prices may be headed for another spike, ( :rolleyes: what a shocker ) according to Lundberg.
"This weekend the world has changed," she said. "Instead of seeing the end of the price rise coming up, or even a decline, we might see a resumption of the climb at the pump."
The current average price is nearly 76 cents above the year-ago level, but is still about 54 cents below the all-time high of $4.1124 on July 11, 2008.
Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions (http://thomsonreuters.com/products_services/media/brand_guidelines/legal_notice/).

MACH1
03-21-2011, 01:02 PM
Change we can believe in!

MasterOfPuppets
07-16-2011, 11:58 PM
well....here we go again....we pretty much bottomed out at $3.55 in my area , now were already back up to $3.65 , and of course no reasons givin for the price spike....:noidea:

MACH1
07-18-2011, 10:14 AM
http://conservativebyte.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/obama-gas-prices.jpg