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fujirama24
03-25-2011, 09:38 AM
What are the chances the steelers change to the 4-3 defense next year. Lebeau is going to retire. Hampton is getting old. Farrior is too. Why not change over. Tomlin was a 4-3 guy before he came to pittsburgh. I can just see this coming. Let me know what you think.

steelerchad
03-25-2011, 09:54 AM
They would have to change some personnel pretty quickly. If they were going to do that, I'm not sure they would have franchised Woodley. Timmons would probably fit better outside in a 3-4. We would need to replace Hampton which we are going to do anyway in the next 2 years. If we do this, we would be lucky to be .500 for the 2 years following the change.

kirklandrules
03-25-2011, 11:52 AM
Not going to happen. The Steelers will run the 3-4 even after Lebeau retires.

mesaSteeler
03-25-2011, 12:43 PM
Zero

SacknificentStew56
03-25-2011, 12:48 PM
I'm sure the 4-3 won't come around Pittsburgh for at least 5 years or so. But you never know what the future holds.

MACH1
03-25-2011, 01:10 PM
ZERO.

Don't fix whats not broken!

harrison'samonster
03-25-2011, 02:11 PM
I can't see any reason why they would change, unless they think it would help their pass defense (which is the only thing that really needs fixing on the D). Has Tomlin indicated he wanted to switch over to the 4-3?

Riddle_Of_Steel
03-25-2011, 04:06 PM
Not bad, at least we made it until March this year before the first "Steelers switching to 4-3?" thread was started.....

PhantomJB93
03-25-2011, 04:54 PM
Next year? No chance in hell.

I could see it happening sometime in the near future (like 5 years maybe) if other teams keep switching to the 3-4 and figuring out how to beat it.

I don't think we'll attempt any type of switch until Hampton, Kesiel, Smith, and Harrison are all gone though. Maybe then we could make Hood a DT and Woodley a DE or something. But it would require some major personnel changes and right now in the immediate future would just be too complicated for whatever benefits it would pay off. Not to mention the staples we would have then (Hood, Woodley, maybe Worilds and somebody we draft this year) might not be anywhere NEAR as effective in a 4-3 scheme at the NFL level.

I actually like the 3-4 better anyway though :noidea:

pete74
03-26-2011, 05:13 AM
i would like to switch back to the 4-3 in a few years. it was nice running the 3-4 when only a few other teams were but now that everyone seems to be switching to it i wouldnt mind going back to the 4-3 in a few years. Hampton, Kesiel, Smith, Troy, Harrison and Farrior will all be gone by then anyway

Navy86
03-26-2011, 08:21 AM
While I get that it's the coaches and the players and not the scheme, that have made the Steeler defense a top defense year after year, there has to be something to the 3-4 that is causing more and more teams to switch to a 3-4 from a 4-3. I'd be more inclined to run a 3-3-5 than switch to a 4-3...and think that may be the future. Get smaller and quicker, not bigger and slower. I'm no expert, but when we go to dime and nickel pkgs, isn't that what we are essentially doing? Or is that more of a 2-4-5 type of alignment? Please school me if I am wrong.

ricardisimo
03-26-2011, 02:57 PM
This is good April Fools material, for those of you with writing skills and too much time on your hands.

While I get that it's the coaches and the players and not the scheme, that have made the Steeler defense a top defense year after year, there has to be something to the 3-4 that is causing more and more teams to switch to a 3-4 from a 4-3. I'd be more inclined to run a 3-3-5 than switch to a 4-3...and think that may be the future. Get smaller and quicker, not bigger and slower. I'm no expert, but when we go to dime and nickel pkgs, isn't that what we are essentially doing? Or is that more of a 2-4-5 type of alignment? Please school me if I am wrong.

The more teams that employ a 3-4, the less effective it is. I think in large part it's a question of preparation by the opposing teams. There were years when the Steelers were the only base 3-4 team in the entire league, and those were the Golden Years of Lloyd, Kirkland, Greene, et al. We were immovable. Then again, when you have linebackers like those guys in their prime, it almost doesn't matter what scheme you employ.

Navy86
03-26-2011, 05:48 PM
That's exactly my point. It does not matter what scheme you employ if you have the correct personnel. If you use larger down lineman, you might be successful using smaller, quicker personnel behind them, like in a nickel-type package. Anyway, I don't think it much matters what you "call" your defensive scheme, each team uses the personnel required to execute what ever type of offense you are trying to stop on any given play, and just because you run a base 3-4 or 4-3, it will adjust accordingly to the flow of the game. As long as the Steelers draft players who play and are hungry and talented, I don't care what you call the defense.

ricardisimo
03-26-2011, 08:03 PM
But there is an important point here, which is that the more teams using the 3-4, the less effective it is. The same cannot be said of the 4-3, which is definitely effective (or not) as a function of personnel and coaching.

There's a second important point: 3-4 defensive ends are cheaper, relatively speaking than 4-3 ends, since by and large all they are asked to do is mind their gaps and stop the run. If they can also sack the QB, great, but that's not why they were hired. And since you have one less defensive linemen, the defense as a whole is cheaper as a result. The Steelers are likely to stick with a formula that not only produces results, but saves money.

Navy86
03-26-2011, 10:12 PM
I agree, that's one good reason I don't see them switching to a 4-3. Hopefully, we'll still be able to scout the 3-4 ends and backers better than newer 3-4 teams keeping our defense more relevant? Of course, the more teams that run the 3-4, the smaller the barrel to choose from; I know more college teams are running the 3-4 than in the past, but how many are successful? Ahh, who knows, only time will tell I guess.

wootawnee
03-27-2011, 12:40 PM
The Steel Curtain was a 4-3......

Nuff said.............

BengalDestroyer
03-27-2011, 03:32 PM
3-4, 4-3 is for the teams who can't draft linebackers

mesaSteeler
03-27-2011, 05:24 PM
The Steel Curtain was a 4-3......

Nuff said.............

and Chuck Noll was the coach who switched from the 4-3 to the 3-4.

PhantomJB93
03-27-2011, 06:34 PM
You know, if you think about it a lot of our young defensive stars (I think) already played the 4-3 before they came here. Woodley and Worilds were both DE's and Hood was a DT. So, hypothetically, I'm not sure it would be as difficult a change as it as first seems. Sylvester and Timmons could be LB's, Worilds, Woodley, and Hood could be on the Dline, the secondary wouldn't really change at all (It still needs to be addressed right now but no personnel changes are required for a scheme switch), so we'd need one more DT and one more LB.

The problem is, guys like Woodley and Worilds weren't dominant as DE's in college, and their potential is maximized by the 3-4. So it could actually just end up making our defense a lot worse.

Again, I like the 3-4 better. I was just examining the possibility.

kirklandrules
03-28-2011, 09:51 AM
I say we deploy the 1-1-9 defense. That will confuse them all. Of course, if you really want to sit around thinking how to keep everyone confused, you might as well move Arians to D Coordinator 'cause he's the master of confusion.

#58
04-04-2011, 11:14 AM
I think that there's a very good chance that we see the 4-3 within 2-3 years.

Lamar Woodley is a RDE in the 4-3
Brett Keisel is a LDE in the 4-3
Lawrence Timmons is a Will LB in the 4-3
Stevenson Sylvester is a Sam LB in the 4-3
Ziggy Hood is a Disruptive force as a DT in the 4-3
Aaron Smith could play DT in the 4-3

There's one missing piece... MLB, but the pieces except a 4-3 MLB are all in place. The switch would not be that difficult.

It would be a hell of alot more effective against spread offense.

ricardisimo
04-04-2011, 05:13 PM
I think that there's a very good chance that we see the 4-3 within 2-3 years.

Lamar Woodley is a RDE in the 4-3
Brett Keisel is a LDE in the 4-3
Lawrence Timmons is a Will LB in the 4-3
Stevenson Sylvester is a Sam LB in the 4-3
Ziggy Hood is a Disruptive force as a DT in the 4-3
Aaron Smith could play DT in the 4-3

There's one missing piece... MLB, but the pieces except a 4-3 MLB are all in place. The switch would not be that difficult.

It would be a hell of alot more effective against spread offense.
:doh:

pete74
04-04-2011, 05:13 PM
I think that there's a very good chance that we see the 4-3 within 2-3 years.

Lamar Woodley is a RDE in the 4-3
Brett Keisel is a LDE in the 4-3
Lawrence Timmons is a Will LB in the 4-3
Stevenson Sylvester is a Sam LB in the 4-3
Ziggy Hood is a Disruptive force as a DT in the 4-3
Aaron Smith could play DT in the 4-3

There's one missing piece... MLB, but the pieces except a 4-3 MLB are all in place. The switch would not be that difficult.

It would be a hell of alot more effective against spread offense.

Keisel and Smith will both be gone in 2-3 years

#58
04-05-2011, 09:41 AM
But for the 2-3 years Smith and Keisel would be fine.

Nobody questions why the Steelers Drafted Timmons 1st who was a WILL 4-3 LB coming out of college? Or why Ziggy Hood was Drafted in the 1st as a 4-3 DT prospect coming out of college?

Neither of those two were on any Steeler fans Draft boards those years.

Stevenson Sylvester is totally suited as a SAM 4-3 LB.

Donovan Warren was brought in and Crezdon Butler was Drafted last year. Both are cover-2 type CB's.

I don't think switching to the 4-3 in a couple years is anywhere near as far fetched as you guys are portraying.

ricardisimo
04-05-2011, 04:14 PM
Keisel's a RDE. Why would we move him to the left?

Woodley's a weakside linebacker. Why would we move him to end, and on the right?

Timmons is our fastest, most athletic linebacker. Why would we have him just bull-rushing from the right?

Your post is idiotic. Why would I bother responding to it?

:noidea:

#58
04-05-2011, 07:08 PM
Keisel's a RDE. Why would we move him to the left?

Woodley's a weakside linebacker. Why would we move him to end, and on the right?

Timmons is our fastest, most athletic linebacker. Why would we have him just bull-rushing from the right?

Your post is idiotic. Why would I bother responding to it?

:noidea:

Huh? Half this post doesn't even make sense.

In a 4-3 your OLB aren't bullrushers. The ends rush the QB ala Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis. Your OLB's can blitz, read and react to the run, drop into coverage on a back or TE. Think Lance Briggs.

I called Woodley the RDE because he'd be the end coming from the blind-side between him and Keisel. RDE lines up on the blind-side over the LT.... Hello

Keisel is NOW a RDE because he plays over the LT. He would generally play over the RT at end in the 4-3. Thus LDE.

As for Timmons... you can figure that out now.

I can provide links that explains this for you if you'd like.

Just because I'm new to the board don't confuse that with being new to football or to the Steelers for that matter.

ricardisimo
04-06-2011, 02:07 AM
Look, guy:


5 of the top 6 defenses last year were base 3-4 defenses, and two of those made the Super Bowl.
The Steelers are habitually in the top-5 employing a 3-4.
Defensive linemen are more expensive than linebackers, making the 3-4 (normally) less expensive to piece together than a 4-3.
3-4 ends are, furthermore, less expensive than 4-3 ends, making it even cheaper. [Although 3-4 NTs are not only pricey, but very hard to find]
All of our personnel on D are thoroughly trained in working within the 3-4, and just as it took them all one, two or (as with Timmons) even three years to learn the system, it would take them the same amount of time to unlearn it.

So it works exceedingly well, and it's cheaper, and we'd suck while transitioning out of it. Why exactly are we likely to see them abandon this formula "within 2-3 years"? I hasten to point out that basically you're saying it's going to happen immediately, since you agreed that Keisel and Smith will in truth be gone in 2-3 years, and clarified that in the meantime they will be "fine" for the 4-3.

Which "half" of my post doesn't even make sense, by the way? The half where I'm asking why I'm responding to you?

#58
04-06-2011, 08:42 AM
Nope.

The half where you obviously didn't know the scheme behind a 4-3. The half that made sense was you explaining what Woodley's, Timmons and Keisel's positions are NOW.

I have no delusions that they will change now. However, I don't think that it's out of the question that they start running a 4-3 base from time to time in the near future. Keith Butler and MT are both 4-3 base guys. To adamantly deny that it could be in the plans down the road is foolish at best.

I merely pointed out that the ingredients to run a 4-3 is in place and they are.

As for what is cheaper... we'll see about that 2-3 years down the road when 60-70% of the NFL is running the 3-4. For years the Steelers were able to draft "outside the box" simply because they were running the 3-4. That will not be the case. 3-4 defenders will be at a premium. More demand, less supply it's that simple.

Curtain_of_Steel
04-06-2011, 08:56 AM
Smith? Why even mention his name? Smith is basically gone now. Without or without Smith that is not going to cause the Steelers to make a decision to switch to a 4-3.

I do not see it happening. We are stacked with all pro lb's for the foreseeable future and our drafting ability for lb's isn't going to change.

Finding athleteic corks in the 3-4 isn't that difficult, its having the strong lb's behind them to jam it in. We are not changing.

lionslicer
04-07-2011, 10:41 AM
Steelers haven't used a 4-3 since the early 80's. It's not just LeBaeu keepings the Steelers using the 3-4, it's the tradition that took over in the 80's and led to blitzberg in the 90's and continues today.

SteelMember
04-07-2011, 11:55 AM
4-3... pfft.

"psycho package! psycho package! psycho package!"

:hyper:

#58
04-07-2011, 12:18 PM
The Steelers have enough good players to win with either package, whether the 3-4 or 4-3.

Six SB's and at least a couple with both packages.

There's alot of history of winning with both.

#1LambertFan
04-21-2011, 11:41 AM
I can't see any reason why they would change, unless they think it would help their pass defense (which is the only thing that really needs fixing on the D). Has Tomlin indicated he wanted to switch over to the 4-3?

Quite contrary. Tomlin has indicated that he likes this particular 3-4 and states that IT IS Pittsburgh.

55BaileyFan
04-23-2011, 08:08 PM
What are the chances the steelers change to the 4-3 defense next year. Lebeau is going to retire. Hampton is getting old. Farrior is too. Why not change over. Tomlin was a 4-3 guy before he came to pittsburgh. I can just see this coming. Let me know what you think.

Even after he retires they will run the 3-4. In a 4-3 Polamalu wouldn't be able to roam and that is one of the keys to our defense. Our personnel is built for the 3-4 and it would be a huge mistake.

Butler is the heir apparent though, he turned down D-Coord. jobs with two teams this year and last year because I think he was told he was going to be put in charge after LeBeau called it quits.

55BaileyFan
04-23-2011, 08:11 PM
The Steelers have enough good players to win with either package, whether the 3-4 or 4-3.

Six SB's and at least a couple with both packages.

There's alot of history of winning with both.

There is a huge difference in winning a Super Bowl in the 4-3 when your front seven consist of:

LC Greenwood, Holmes, Dwight White, Mean Joe Greene, Andy Russell, Jack Hamm, and Jack Lambert versus Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton, Brett Keisel, James Harrison, Lawrence Timmons, James Farrior and LaMarr Woodley.

I am not downgrading our present day players but the linebacking core and defense lines don't match up. If we have those same caliber players then we could do it but I wouldn't compare our present front seven with the front seven of the 4-3 of old.

rich4eagle
04-23-2011, 11:09 PM
First off, I can say a lot of teams play the wrong front seven package for dumb reasons. I think the Steelers have committed to the 3-4 for years and built on that concept . thus the Steelers have a great 3-4 package still based on the talent on the team. So keep at it.

If the roster indicates a change then do it........so are 3-4 is STEEL

Steeldude
04-24-2011, 02:15 AM
What are the chances the steelers change to the 4-3 defense next year. Lebeau is going to retire. Hampton is getting old. Farrior is too. Why not change over. Tomlin was a 4-3 guy before he came to pittsburgh. I can just see this coming. Let me know what you think.

it won't happen, but it's better than the 3-8 defense lebeau has become so fond of

DanRooney
04-24-2011, 07:24 AM
Doesn't really matter when you rush 4 95% of the time anyway.