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View Full Version : Will Tomlins Streak Continue?


steeltheone
04-30-2011, 07:45 AM
Coach Tomlin was a DB Coach before coming to the the Steelers. Since his arrival we have not developed 1 qaulity DB. All our starters are Cowher players.

Navy86
04-30-2011, 09:20 AM
We also haven't taken one higher than Rd 3 since he's been here. I'd argue that Cohwer's CB picks are not stellar, either. Ike Taylor and Townsend are the only succesful ones, really. Chad (Burnt) Scott, Ricardo Colclough, Bryant McFadden (replaced as starter by Tomlin's pick, Gay), Poteat (career back-up/slot guy), the list goes on. Gay is serviceable and the jury is still out on K. Lewis and Butler, so I wouldn't say Tomlin is unable to find talent and develop it quite yet.

SoCalFan
04-30-2011, 09:32 AM
I thought when Tomlin got hired we would have a top tier secondary year after year?

55BaileyFan
05-01-2011, 07:42 PM
We also haven't taken one higher than Rd 3 since he's been here. I'd argue that Cohwer's CB picks are not stellar, either. Ike Taylor and Townsend are the only succesful ones, really. Chad (Burnt) Scott, Ricardo Colclough, Bryant McFadden (replaced as starter by Tomlin's pick, Gay), Poteat (career back-up/slot guy), the list goes on. Gay is serviceable and the jury is still out on K. Lewis and Butler, so I wouldn't say Tomlin is unable to find talent and develop it quite yet.

I think people do forget that of the active roster over half are Cowhers guys. There are only three maybe four men on the starting defense who are Cowhers. I am not doubting Tomlin's abilities but our corners have steadily got worse since his retirement.

Fire Arians
05-01-2011, 07:46 PM
Coach Tomlin was a DB Coach before coming to the the Steelers. Since his arrival we have not developed 1 qaulity DB. All our starters are Cowher players.

that's more to do with the db coach / d-coordinator and scout team imo. hiring lake as the db coach makes a difference

the one thing i fault tomlin for is not being able to find a better solution than arians year after year.

MattsMe
05-01-2011, 08:13 PM
We haven't developed a quality mascot either.

http://www.wtae.com/2007/0427/13211518_240X180.jpg

I'm getting worried.

:coffee:

steeltheone
05-01-2011, 08:20 PM
We haven't developed a quality mascot either.

http://www.wtae.com/2007/0427/13211518_240X180.jpg

I'm getting worried.

:coffee:

Oh no,,,,A Steely basher:chuckle:

Lady Steel
05-01-2011, 08:21 PM
:sofunny:

Sixburgher
05-01-2011, 08:34 PM
I think people do forget that of the active roster over half are Cowhers guys. There are only three maybe four men on the starting defense who are Cowhers. I am not doubting Tomlin's abilities but our corners have steadily got worse since his retirement.

By offenses that have been capable to do it, our defense has been routinely spread out and picked apart in the same fashion as it was in Super Bowl XLV for a good decade now. The Bengals spread us out and Kitna smoked us for more than 400 yards in a late 2001 game we lost in overtime, and then Brady and Gannon followed the same formula in the first two games of 2002, which were also both losses for us. And it's been the one glaring weakness of the Steelers defense ever since.

sexyllama
05-01-2011, 08:40 PM
Sixburgher,

Don't post facts or anything disparaging against the Steelers. I'll save the main group of posters here some time:

"OH THE SKY IS FALLING, THEY SKY IS FALLING"
"YOU ARE SO OVERREACTING"
"YOU ARE STUPID"
"WHAT DO YOU KNOW, YOU ARE JUST POSTING FACTS"
"I JUST GOT TOMLINs #$#$ OUT OF MY MOUTH AND HE DOESN"T AGREE"
"WE ARE THE BEST AND IF YOU DON"T THINK SO YOUR DUMB"
"WTF ARE POSTING YOUR OPINION FOR IF IT DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME"

I agree with you though Six, it's pretty much the only weakness we have.
llama

SH-Rock
05-01-2011, 09:41 PM
Sixburgher,

Don't post facts or anything disparaging against the Steelers. I'll save the main group of posters here some time:

"OH THE SKY IS FALLING, THEY SKY IS FALLING"
"YOU ARE SO OVERREACTING"
"YOU ARE STUPID"
"WHAT DO YOU KNOW, YOU ARE JUST POSTING FACTS"
"I JUST GOT TOMLINs #$#$ OUT OF MY MOUTH AND HE DOESN"T AGREE"
"WE ARE THE BEST AND IF YOU DON"T THINK SO YOUR DUMB"
"WTF ARE POSTING YOUR OPINION FOR IF IT DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME"

I agree with you though Six, it's pretty much the only weakness we have.
llama

No dissagreed that we needed to draft a quality corner. We just disagreed that you overreacted. If this problem has been since Cowher's days, why have we gone to 3 Super Bowls in 6 years. The Secondary is only one part of the team. And one part of our stellar defense. You also got to look at it this way. Teams can barely run on us, so what is their other option? To throw the ball and spread us out. The only way we can counter this is by drafting SHUT DOWN corners. But in this draft there were no quality SHUT DOWN corners when we picked. Also Janoris Jenkins might be entering the supplemental draft. This guy is a first rounder and I hope we get him, but I doubt it.

MattsMe
05-01-2011, 10:10 PM
"WE ARE THE BEST AND IF YOU DON"T THINK SO YOUR DUMB"

llama


:doh:

Llama, is this you?


http://quinnell.us/images/moran.jpg

Be sure and sign your post when you answer, so I will know it was you. If only our humble, closed minded little board had the names of posters next to every post...

sexyllama
05-01-2011, 10:15 PM
Nobody is over-reacting, I'm fine either way. I just thought it was a better idea to grab a corner in the 1st round. The picks are pretty decent though.

The 2nd round pick was the only option. After Harris, there was pretty much only questionable nickel backs left.

Who knows, Free Agency hasn't started and there are a few good options there. I know the Steelers don't spend but sometimes they pick up a Farrior or value. I guess we'll know once they finish fighting over a few billion dollars ; )

Llama

sexyllama
05-01-2011, 10:16 PM
:doh:

Llama, is this you?


http://quinnell.us/images/moran.jpg

Be sure and sign your post when you answer, so I will know it was you. If only our humble, closed minded little board had the names of posters next to every post...

Couldn't have worked out any better. :rofl:

The lambs will always follow.

MattsMe
05-01-2011, 10:19 PM
Couldn't have worked out any better. :rofl:

The lambs will always follow.

Nice try.


:rolleyes:

sexyllama
05-01-2011, 10:33 PM
Right on cue! :rofl:

finesward
05-01-2011, 10:42 PM
Sixburgher,

Don't post facts or anything disparaging against the Steelers. I'll save the main group of posters here some time:

"OH THE SKY IS FALLING, THEY SKY IS FALLING"
"YOU ARE SO OVERREACTING"
"YOU ARE STUPID"
"WHAT DO YOU KNOW, YOU ARE JUST POSTING FACTS"
"I JUST GOT TOMLINs #$#$ OUT OF MY MOUTH AND HE DOESN"T AGREE"
"WE ARE THE BEST AND IF YOU DON"T THINK SO YOUR DUMB"
"WTF ARE POSTING YOUR OPINION FOR IF IT DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME"

I agree with you though Six, it's pretty much the only weakness we have.
llama

You noticed he posted facts w/o a bias?

And if you agree with him, why the hell have we been able to win 2 super bowls in that time span without drafting 1st round DB's year after year??

Do you have your wits about you yet or still don't see it?

And you wonder why people think your an idiot...

sexyllama
05-01-2011, 10:45 PM
2 out of 5... like stink on shit... :rofl:

Lady Steel
05-01-2011, 10:48 PM
You confuse me, sexyllama.

finesward
05-01-2011, 10:49 PM
Nice try.


:rolleyes:

yeah what he said....

SH-Rock
05-01-2011, 10:50 PM
2 out of 5... like stink on shit... :rofl:

Winning 2 superbowls out of 3 and going to 3 in 6 years is amazing. So many teams will kill for this.

sexyllama
05-01-2011, 11:07 PM
SH-Rock, we are saying the same thing. I completely understand the the matchup ( vs. spread teams) and I've never said the Steelers suck. (just our DB's) We have one weakness and it's the spread, next time they play NE or GB- I want them to win.

Actually, I don't mind GB but I really hate the ****ing Pats.

2 out 5 is just a joke for the 5 guys I have ignored because if you have any opinion that DOES NOT MATCH whatever they say... well you can see the above. The other 3 should show up soon... it's like clockwork.

Crazy news on CNN.

Llama

finesward
05-01-2011, 11:40 PM
SH-Rock, we are saying the same thing. I completely understand the the matchup ( vs. spread teams) and I've never said the Steelers suck. (just our DB's) We have one weakness and it's the spread, next time they play NE or GB- I want them to win.

Actually, I don't mind GB but I really hate the ****ing Pats.

2 out 5 is just a joke for the 5 guys I have ignored because if you have any opinion that DOES NOT MATCH whatever they say... well you can see the above. The other 3 should show up soon... it's like clockwork.

Crazy news on CNN.

Llama

I completely agree with what Sixburgher wrote, as did you. So it's not that I don't agree with your opinion that the steelers biggest weakness is the secondary. That's not in question. Like Six said and I said before in another thread, that has been completely obvious to anyone who has been following the steelers the past century.

This is what I wholeheartedly disagree on, which I've given plenty of logical reasons why I disagree and you can't seem to comprehend any of them either from lack of intellect, ignorance, or a combination of the two

I just thought it was a better idea to grab a corner in the 1st round

You have given ZERO reasons why that would be the better idea. I've given you ample opportunity to show Tomlin and KC the error of their ways. You have no answer.

Here's what I've presented using logic:

Steelers haven't traditionally drafted DB's high b/c of a combination of where they typically pick from (bottom of the draft) and how we use DB's (lesser quality CB's being able to suffice when the QB is being pressured)

THUS

Picking BPA makes sense when the quality of CB drops off significantly after the top 3 are gone (which they were) especially when we filled a need with a much better player who plays a position with a much higher value in our defense than the one a CB has (d-line)

In conclusion, I believe it was a good pick.

There's my reason. What's yours for thinking they should of drafted CB in the first round, and who exactly would you of gone with?

Simple question. Answer and prove me wrong about you OR continue to ignore and prove me right

Sixburgher
05-01-2011, 11:42 PM
I have the fool on ignore, but I noticed he "agreed" with me. However, I think he missed my point. My response was to another poster who pointed out that our secondary has gone downhill since Cowher resigned. My point was that the problem we have had against spread offenses lies more with scheme and started well before Cowher left. We play zone coverage, not man-to-man. Our scheme calls for our secondary to keep receivers in front of them, taking a bend but don't break approach and limiting yards after a catch through good tackling (this is why Gay is still around, he's an excellent tackler). Our scheme is also predicated on creating mistakes by getting pressure on opposing QBs. When we face a very good opposing QB with an excellent offensive line (see Brady), we are put at a disadvantage. It is what it is and a shutdown corner is only going to be able to do so much in such a scheme.

steelerjim58
05-02-2011, 12:00 AM
Any well run, talented spread offense will pick apart any defense. Barring having 4-5 freakishly good db's or getting just a crazy good pass rush on the qb all day, unless weather or injuries or an off day by the qb happens, with todays rules it is virtually unstoppable.

finesward
05-02-2011, 12:03 AM
ahhh, hope is restored :) i'm gonna quit trying to figure out what kind of learning disability he has

ggoldman
05-02-2011, 01:06 AM
Any well run, talented spread offense will pick apart any defense. Barring having 4-5 freakishly good db's or getting just a crazy good pass rush on the qb all day, unless weather or injuries or an off day by the qb happens, with todays rules it is virtually unstoppable.

Then why didn't the Jets spread us 5 wide, or the Ravens?
If you can jam the receivers at the line to buy time for the rush to get there, or have fast twitch DB's who tackle right after the catch, then the spread is beatable.

sexyllama
05-02-2011, 01:31 AM
Any well run, talented spread offense will pick apart any defense. Barring having 4-5 freakishly good db's or getting just a crazy good pass rush on the qb all day, unless weather or injuries or an off day by the qb happens, with todays rules it is virtually unstoppable.

I'll disagree that we can't do anything.

See what the Jets did to Brady in the Playoffs. 3-4... 4-3.. then 2-7-2 and then 2-1-8, they dressed like 10 DB's for that game. Great gameplan, 6-7 different fronts with a bunch of DB's doing many different things. The Jets don't have 10 great cover corners.

We are definately at a disadvantage but I hate the whole "we can't do anything about it"


Llama

Wallace108
05-02-2011, 01:32 AM
2 out 5 is just a joke for the 5 guys I have ignored because if you have any opinion that DOES NOT MATCH whatever they say... well you can see the above. The other 3 should show up soon... it's like clockwork.

Llama
Oooooh, oooooh, am I one of the five? If not, can I be added? I hate feeling left out.

-Wally

BGSU A Dub
05-02-2011, 01:44 AM
Oooooh, oooooh, am I one of the five? If not, can I be added? I hate feeling left out.

-Wally


Me too. Very lonely.

- A Dub

sexyllama
05-02-2011, 01:44 AM
Unfortunately, you are not Wally. Like I said, it's so funny to see 4-5 of these posters.

I think mesaSteeler just posted an article from a media writer about the Steelers and everyone piles on him. He just cut n' pasted an article and everyone bitches saying he's over-reacting, etc. even though he's just posting Steelers news.

And then there are closet boys like Finesward who keeps sending me messages about where he can get a blow-up Llama. I guess it's the only animal he hasn't spent some quality time with. He told me it's a southern thing.

Llama

BGSU A Dub
05-02-2011, 01:54 AM
Sounds like GBPack's brother.

Where has that guy been?

Wallace108
05-02-2011, 02:02 AM
Unfortunately, you are not Wally

:sadpace:


Dude, I don't know how much time you spent lurking here before joining, but there's tons of disagreement. No one says you can't criticize the team. But when you went off on several rants after the Heyward pick, you kinda set yourself up for some ridicule. Just sayin'. :drink:

finesward
05-02-2011, 05:55 AM
There's my reason. What's yours for thinking they should of drafted CB in the first round, and who exactly would you of gone with?

Simple question. Answer and prove me wrong about you OR continue to ignore and prove me right

DING DING DING

That's what I thought llama

:toofunny:

sexyllama
05-02-2011, 09:54 AM
Didn't rant, just said I didn't agree with not picking up a CB. Never even said the Heyward pick was bad. I also said the OT/OG pick was really the only choice as none of the CB's left were starter material.

Hell, I even said Gilbert was a good pick and one of the other dumbasses said "**** you, your stupid, Gilbert was a good pick!"

Uh, talk about confusing? Even if you don't agree with them the correct way they ****ing whine like bitches.

Anyway, like I said maybe they may see a few solid Free Agents. I suspect they do because Gay can't be the best option out there for $1,101,000.

Llama

sexyllama
05-02-2011, 10:10 AM
Back onto the thread though-

1. I hope C. Lake reverses the DB streak. Kugs did miracles in a year.
2. (above- I really don't know how that DB coach got that job in Arizona)
3. I hope B. McFadden gets pushed down the depth chart. (look at his numbers from Arizona and last year, amazingly he's getting worse)
4. I hope C. Brown can at least get in the lineup as a Nickel Back but drafting 3rd round and later athletes doesn't make this a given
5. Re-sign Ike and maybe go after another FA CB.

Llama

Sixburgher
05-02-2011, 10:11 AM
Then why didn't the Jets spread us 5 wide, or the Ravens?


To state the obvious,

Sanchez and Flacco < Brady and Rodgers

theplatypus
05-02-2011, 10:12 AM
I think mesaSteeler just posted an article from a media writer about the Steelers and everyone piles on him. He just cut n' pasted an article and everyone bitches saying he's over-reacting, etc. even though he's just posting Steelers news.



No one jumped on Mesa for posting Steelers news. I wouldn't even say anyone jumped on him. Although he did get poked a little for his constant the sky is falling editorials that he added to the reports.

55BaileyFan
05-07-2011, 01:21 PM
By offenses that have been capable to do it, our defense has been routinely spread out and picked apart in the same fashion as it was in Super Bowl XLV for a good decade now. The Bengals spread us out and Kitna smoked us for more than 400 yards in a late 2001 game we lost in overtime, and then Brady and Gannon followed the same formula in the first two games of 2002, which were also both losses for us. And it's been the one glaring weakness of the Steelers defense ever since.

And since 2001 how many teams have won more games than us? Oh, two Indy and NE. Okay couldn't hear over those wins. We also won a Super Bowl and it doesn't change the fact that Tomlin is using Cowhers guys and his roster.

55BaileyFan
05-07-2011, 01:25 PM
Back onto the thread though-

1. I hope C. Lake reverses the DB streak. Kugs did miracles in a year.
2. (above- I really don't know how that DB coach got that job in Arizona)
3. I hope B. McFadden gets pushed down the depth chart. (look at his numbers from Arizona and last year, amazingly he's getting worse)
4. I hope C. Brown can at least get in the lineup as a Nickel Back but drafting 3rd round and later athletes doesn't make this a given
5. Re-sign Ike and maybe go after another FA CB.

Llama

You realize most of the good CB in this league are not first rounders right?

Hell, Packers have drafted 15 since 1999, none of them are starters. Their starters are Woodson (former Raider first rounder) and their other starter and huge contributors (Tramon Williams and Sam Shields) were undrafted free agents.

Falcons are another example. Dunta Robinson was a first rounder to Houston and Grimes was an undrafted free agent. Since, Grimes came in the league in 2007 he has 12 ints, Robinson since 2007, 5.

Draft means shit. Championships are built in later rounds.

steelerjim58
05-07-2011, 01:54 PM
I'll disagree that we can't do anything.

See what the Jets did to Brady in the Playoffs. 3-4... 4-3.. then 2-7-2 and then 2-1-8, they dressed like 10 DB's for that game. Great gameplan, 6-7 different fronts with a bunch of DB's doing many different things. The Jets don't have 10 great cover corners.

We are definately at a disadvantage but I hate the whole "we can't do anything about it"


Llama

At this time the patriots don't have the personnel at wideout that the Saints, Colts or Packers have.

Sixburgher
05-07-2011, 06:49 PM
And since 2001 how many teams have won more games than us? Oh, two Indy and NE. Okay couldn't hear over those wins. We also won a Super Bowl and it doesn't change the fact that Tomlin is using Cowhers guys and his roster.

Reading comprehension is your friend. My point was EVERY team has a weakness. Due to the salary cap, every team will continue to have at least one weakness. The primary weakness of the Steelers for years has been defending against offenses that have been able to spread them out. The problem didn't start with Tomlin, either. Fortunately the Steelers have been able to overcome that weakness more often than not.

PhantomJB93
05-07-2011, 10:59 PM
You realize most of the good CB in this league are not first rounders right?

Hell, Packers have drafted 15 since 1999, none of them are starters. Their starters are Woodson (former Raider first rounder) and their other starter and huge contributors (Tramon Williams and Sam Shields) were undrafted free agents.

Falcons are another example. Dunta Robinson was a first rounder to Houston and Grimes was an undrafted free agent. Since, Grimes came in the league in 2007 he has 12 ints, Robinson since 2007, 5.

Draft means shit. Championships are built in later rounds.

Nnamdi - first round
Revis - first round
Woodson - first round
Bailey - first round
Brandon Flowers - early second round
Leon Hall - first round
Jonathan Joseph - first round
Joe Haden - first round
Rashean Mathis - early second round
Leodis Mckelvin - first round
Vontae Davis - first round
Devin Mccourty - first round
Antonio Cromartie - first round
Quentin Jammer - first round
Antoione Winfield - first round
Terrence Newman - first round
Corey Webster - early second round
Chris Gamble - first round
Tracy Porter - early second round
Dominique Rodgers Cromartie - first round
Marcus Trufant - first round

They may not all be Nnamdi Asomughas but those are most of the teams' top corners, and they were taken in the top 40 draft picks of their class. Sometimes a good scouting organization like the Steelers or Packers will come across an Ike Taylor or Tramon Williams, but for every Taylor-esque late round cornerback that pans out there are like 5 quality starters at the same position who were found in the first round. "You realize most of the good CB in this league are not first rounders right?" is probably the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard based on that list. I'm not saying I'm particularly mad about our draft because I think we still got good CB value in the third and what we had at pick 31 would have been a reach, but don't act like we can keep taking mid/late round CBs every year and expect to maintian a competitive secondary; even if we resign Ike we're going to have to spend a first round pick on a reliable star guy at some point in the next few years unless we know Butler, Brown, or Allen are REALLY going to pan out well. Cornerback, if anything, is probably the HARDEST position to find any value in outside of the first or second round of the draft aside from quarterback.

ricardisimo
05-08-2011, 01:47 AM
No dissagreed that we needed to draft a quality corner. We just disagreed that you overreacted. If this problem has been since Cowher's days, why have we gone to 3 Super Bowls in 6 years. The Secondary is only one part of the team. And one part of our stellar defense. You also got to look at it this way. Teams can barely run on us, so what is their other option? To throw the ball and spread us out. The only way we can counter this is by drafting SHUT DOWN corners. But in this draft there were no quality SHUT DOWN corners when we picked. Also Janoris Jenkins might be entering the supplemental draft. This guy is a first rounder and I hope we get him, but I doubt it.
Here's the first thing that popped up about Mr. Jenkins:
On June 1, 2009, Jenkins was arrested near a bar by Gainesville Police for fighting and resisting arrest after punching a man in the head around 2 AM. Police were forced to use a taser on Jenkins after fighting escalated. When asked why the fight started, Jenkins told police it was because he thought someone was going to steal the gold chain around his neck.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janoris_Jenkins#cite_note-1)
On April 23, 2011, Jenkins was cited by a Gainesville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gainesville,_Florida) police officer and charged with misdemeanor marijuana possession. He was cited for the same violation in January 2011, and paid a $316 fine. He was arrested in May 2009 during a downtown Gainseville fight that resulted in probation and community service. On April 26, 2011, he was dismissed by the Florida Gators football team, due to his second drug related arrest in 3 months.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janoris_Jenkins#cite_note-2)

Oh, yeah... he's got Steeler written all over him.