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View Full Version : Five Players in the Wrong Situation From the '06 Draft


Volpe1564
05-26-2006, 03:26 PM
1. Vernon Davis, TE, San Francisco: I love Davis. I think he could do the kinds of things we've gotten accustomed to seeing from San Diego's Antonio Gates. I just don't see that happening as long as Alex Smith is throwing the football for the 49ers. I realize Smith is only in his second season, but he didn't do anything in his first year to make me think he's due for rapid development. Smith has more growing pains to go through, and as long as he struggles, so will Davis.

2. Tamba Hali, DE, Kansas City: For all the glowing reports on Hali's work ethic and production at Penn State, he's still going to a team that has had horrible luck with defensive linemen over the last five years. They can't get anything out of their top picks (Ryan Sims, a 2002 first-rounder, has been a bust, and Junior Siavii, a 2004 first-rounder, is close to sharing that label), and the free agents they've brought in have struggled too. Only one player, 2004 fourth-rounder Jared Allen, has exceeded expectations. There's just not enough talent to give Hali the help he needs to be effective.

3. Michael Huff, SS, Oakland: I hate to see great talents wind up in dysfunctional organizations. Unfortunately for Huff, the Raiders have become a place where even the most gifted of young players can underachieve. It has something to do with the freedom they get from owner Al Davis, who has a way of letting his favorite players do whatever they want while the head coach, Art Shell in this case, loses all credibility. It happened with Charles Woodson. It happened with Darrell Russell. And those are the people who could actually play. I'm hoping Huff is mentally strong enough to deal with an environment filled with very few characters worth following.

4. Santonio Holmes, WR, Pittsburgh: This is no knock on the organization, because it did win the Super Bowl last year. It is, however, a reminder that the Steelers haven't fared well recently with receivers taken in the first round. Plaxico Burress struggled with inconsistency. Troy Edwards never did anything. Holmes may be more willing to accept the realities of playing in the Steel City -- more blocking and less pass-catching opportunities than first-round receivers are used to -- but he'll still have to understand that Hines Ward is the man in that system.

5. Anthony Fasano, TE, Dallas: If Fasano wants to be the next tight end to become a pass-catching star in the league, he's in the wrong place. If he doesn't mind being a second tight end on a team that already has a young, Pro Bowl-caliber player at the position, he'll be just fine. I like the kid. I just don't think he'll get fully utilized by the Cowboys as long as Jason Witten is on the roster.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jeffri_chadiha/05/03/draft.luck/1.html


ewwwww......i didnt want to read that:dang:

BBC
05-26-2006, 03:32 PM
He also fails to mention the Steelers drafting ability in the first round, shall we take a look back at some of their first round picks in recent history?

Heath Miller
Ben Roethlisberger
Troy Polamalu
Kendall Simmons
Casey Hampton
Plaxico Burress
Alan Faneca
Mark Bruener

tony hipchest
05-26-2006, 03:38 PM
if you look at it, this is more a compliment of santonios talents than it is a knock on him. the writer thinks he is too good to go to a team that already has an established #1 wr and doesnt pass the ball that often. if santonio went to the pats or k.c. he would be gushing all over the pick.

it IS a knock on the organization and their style of ball.

actually the whole article is kinda bunk. fasano can contribute and flourish (although he wont catch 100 balls like t. gonzales - neither will h. miller) and k.c.'s past drafts have no bearing on how t. hali will play.

Black@Gold Forever32
05-26-2006, 04:47 PM
Ok yes the Steelers do run the ball most of the time. We will always be a running team. But with all the recent additions through the draft. I'm thinking Cowher will open it more and more each year. Plus the Steelers usually have a very balanced offense in games. They get the lead and grind it out in the second half.

True the Steelers have had mixed results picking recievers in the first round. Troy Edwards after his rookie year was a complete bust. Plax had moments when he looked to be the next big thing. Then he would disappear for at times and always had some mental break downs. But I have no worries about Santonio Holmes. He seems very excited to be a Steeler and has the willingness to block. True he might get fustrated at times when he won't get the ball at times. But I want a reciever to want to catch the football. But I 'm sure Holmes won't have out bursts to hurt the teams chemistry.

BlackNGold203
05-26-2006, 05:37 PM
I think we showed in the playoffs....go ahead and pull up your safeties...play 8 in the box...and we will burn you...

With the additions of Holmes and Reid...and Ben's ongoing development....defenses are gonna be in deep trouble

3 to be 4
05-26-2006, 09:36 PM
Point #2 and #4 are idiotic. Because KC has had bad luck with picks in the past or the Steelers had some issues with WR's in the past they shouldnt pick them??

DUH!

OX1947
05-26-2006, 10:03 PM
Steelers have never had a QB like Big Ben since TB. Whether Cowher or the Steelers org want to believe it, this offense either this year or 2007, it will be Big Ben's offense. They will run the offense according to his abilities. I think Cowher has showed twice in his career that he is willing to give the Qb free reign on passing if need be. He did it with O'donnel in 95 when we ran multiple 5 wides and he did it in 2003 with Maddox. Both yeilded different results but thats because the talent in 95 was alot better then in 2003.

We also saw it a little in the Playoffs. I think Cowher wouldnt have as much success as he has had, if he werent able to bend his philosphy a little to cater to the talent. It will be very interesting to see this year how Big Ben plays. Im personally looking for a Carson Palmer 2005 performance. Rudi Johnson was a 1400 back and Carson was able to do his thing. If we get that kind of performance from our offense, I dont see how the hell we are not going all the way.....

Bengal Fan
05-26-2006, 10:31 PM
Im personally looking for a Carson Palmer 2005 performance. Rudi Johnson was a 1400 back and Carson was able to do his thing. If we get that kind of performance from our offense, I dont see how the hell we are not going all the way.....

Don't you have to throw the ball to get that kind of production? To say Ben is going to bust out with 32 TD's, a rating of 100+ and lead the league in completion percentage are some lofty expectations, especially for a running team. Not to mention they lost their best RB and have only 1 proven receiver who is no spring chicken. If anything, I'd expect his numbers to stay the same or drop, I see no reason why they'd open it up and take away the ball control style they've been so good at.

BBC
05-26-2006, 10:41 PM
Don't you have to throw the ball to get that kind of production? To say Ben is going to bust out with 32 TD's, a rating of 100+ and lead the league in completion percentage are some lofty expectations, especially for a running team. Not to mention they lost their best RB and have only 1 proven receiver who is no spring chicken. If anything, I'd expect his numbers to stay the same or drop, I see no reason why they'd open it up and take away the ball control style they've been so good at.

...and you have now lost all credibility. The Steelers are not a running team. The Steelers have a rather balanced attack in the first quarter, Ben builds a large lead, then Cowher sits on the lead by running. Cowher is very good at this. He has lost 1 game out of the 108 that he has gained a lead of 11 or more at any point in the game. While the numbers would make it appear that the Steelers are a running team, and Ben relies on the run, here are some stats that might prove otherwise:

Ben Roethlisberger's first quarter passer rating: 144.2
Ben Roethlisberger's yards per first quarter: 71
Carson Palmer's yards per first quarter: 62
Peyton Manning's yards per first quarter: 69

WWIIOwheelz
05-26-2006, 10:51 PM
I err on the side of caution, and NOBODY is harder on the Steelers than me when I'm making my football forecasts, but I've got to tell you all, I can't remember EVER being happier about what I'm seeing going into training camp. The Steelers have lost a couple of guys I've grown fond of over the years, but they have bigger & better replacements and have improved in receiving.

I'm not sure what else to say. Maybe Ben, in his 3rd season, can combine the best of his first 2 seasons & go undefeated in both the regular season and in the playoffs? :) You have to aim pretty high for something the kid hasn't already done.

Volpe1564
05-27-2006, 12:16 AM
[QUOTE=WWIIOwheelz] I can't remember EVER being happier about what I'm seeing going into training camp. The Steelers have lost a couple of guys I've grown fond of over the years, but they have bigger & better replacements and have improved in receiving.QUOTE]



i argee, the only thing im really still worried is FS Clark.....i hope im wrong....

tony hipchest
05-27-2006, 12:43 AM
...and you have now lost all credibility. The Steelers are not a running team. The Steelers have a rather balanced attack in the first quarter, Ben builds a large lead, then Cowher sits on the lead by running. Cowher is very good at this. He has lost 1 game out of the 108 that he has gained a lead of 11 or more at any point in the game. While the numbers would make it appear that the Steelers are a running team, and Ben relies on the run, here are some stats that might prove otherwise:

Ben Roethlisberger's first quarter passer rating: 144.2
Ben Roethlisberger's yards per first quarter: 71
Carson Palmer's yards per first quarter: 62
Peyton Manning's yards per first quarter: 69 it was tossed over the plate and you just smacked him out of the park. i particularly liked where he said the steelers lost their best running back. what he failed to mention was that the bengals lost their best running back 2 years ago, who promptly went on to win a super bowl with the patriots. corey dillon was right. he would NEVER win a ring sticking around with that franchise.

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-27-2006, 04:19 AM
Santonio Holmes, WR, Pittsburgh: This is no knock on the organization, because it did win the Super Bowl last year. It is, however, a reminder that the Steelers haven't fared well recently with receivers taken in the first round. Plaxico Burress struggled with inconsistency. Troy Edwards never did anything. Holmes may be more willing to accept the realities of playing in the Steel City -- more blocking and less pass-catching opportunities than first-round receivers are used to -- but he'll still have to understand that Hines Ward is the man in that system. [/B]


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jeffri_chadiha/05/03/draft.luck/1.html


Okay...Point 1) SI is a rag that makes my parrot stick its butt OUT of its cage so as to not improve upon its writing.
Point 2) If they paid any atention at all to Pitts drafting trends, they would see that We have gotten away from drafting Edwards/Burress caliber of players...and started drafting players with better character. I think that We have just figured out that Cincy wants all the Chris Henrys of the world, and since they will ALWAYS have better draft position than us..they can have them
Point 3) As an ex-army Vet...let me explain something to SI writers...Bengals Fans ...Homeless people...Ray Lewis...and those "special" people who have been institutionalized. The quality of the weapons you possess are never based on how often you use them...they are SOLELY based on effectivness when utilized and the ability of the user to know when/where/how to utilize them. To say that Holmes is a poor pick for Pitt because We have Ward...is the military equivalant of saying that planes are useless since we have tanks. Holmes is a legitimate weapon unto himself...PERIOD!
Point 4) I seem to remember a very effective ground game in the late 70's ...and two HALL OF FAME recievers that even SI may recall were ...oh I dont know...HALL OF FAME RECIEVERS!!! Makes one think that a good ground game and effective passing attack may co-exist. HMMMMM...some may even call that a "well-balanced" team.
Well..back to teaching my parrot that the crap on its SI bedliner was there before I lined its cage.

Livinginthe past
05-27-2006, 06:54 AM
...and you have now lost all credibility. The Steelers are not a running team. The Steelers have a rather balanced attack in the first quarter, Ben builds a large lead, then Cowher sits on the lead by running. Cowher is very good at this. He has lost 1 game out of the 108 that he has gained a lead of 11 or more at any point in the game. While the numbers would make it appear that the Steelers are a running team, and Ben relies on the run, here are some stats that might prove otherwise:

Ben Roethlisberger's first quarter passer rating: 144.2
Ben Roethlisberger's yards per first quarter: 71
Carson Palmer's yards per first quarter: 62
Peyton Manning's yards per first quarter: 69

Hey BBC,

Excellent post, nice stats.

I hear this Cowher related stat alot here - only losing 1 out 108 games after being in a 11 point lead.

The thing is, we dont have any real context for it - what is the NFL average?, how does it compare to other top coaches historically?

I have no idea how to go about finding this stat as it doesnt show up on the end of game stats.

NM

Livinginthe past
05-27-2006, 06:57 AM
Santonio Holmes, WR, Pittsburgh: This is no knock on the organization, because it did win the Super Bowl last year. It is, however, a reminder that the Steelers haven't fared well recently with receivers taken in the first round. Plaxico Burress struggled with inconsistency. Troy Edwards never did anything. Holmes may be more willing to accept the realities of playing in the Steel City -- more blocking and less pass-catching opportunities than first-round receivers are used to -- but he'll still have to understand that Hines Ward is the man in that system. [/B]


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jeffri_chadiha/05/03/draft.luck/1.html


Okay...Point 1) SI is a rag that makes my parrot stick its butt OUT of its cage so as to not improve upon its writing.
Point 2) If they paid any atention at all to Pitts drafting trends, they would see that We have gotten away from drafting Edwards/Burress caliber of players...and started drafting players with better character. I think that We have just figured out that Cincy wants all the Chris Henrys of the world, and since they will ALWAYS have better draft position than us..they can have them
Point 3) As an ex-army Vet...let me explain something to SI writers...Bengals Fans ...Homeless people...Ray Lewis...and those "special" people who have been institutionalized. The quality of the weapons you possess are never based on how often you use them...they are SOLELY based on effectivness when utilized and the ability of the user to know when/where/how to utilize them. To say that Holmes is a poor pick for Pitt because We have Ward...is the military equivalant of saying that planes are useless since we have tanks. Holmes is a legitimate weapon unto himself...PERIOD!
Point 4) I seem to remember a very effective ground game in the late 70's ...and two HALL OF FAME recievers that even SI may recall were ...oh I dont know...HALL OF FAME RECIEVERS!!! Makes one think that a good ground game and effective passing attack may co-exist. HMMMMM...some may even call that a "well-balanced" team.
Well..back to teaching my parrot that the crap on its SI bedliner was there before I lined its cage.

Nice post Lamberts tooth,

I enjoyed the military analogy - you are quite correct about Hines Ward - if anything having a real consistent field stretcher (if things work out) in Holmes should make Ward even more effective as his underneath routes will be alot more open.

SI has some nice pics - but the analysis leaves alot to be desired.

NM

clevestinks
05-27-2006, 07:52 AM
Santonio Holmes, WR, Pittsburgh: This is no knock on the organization, because it did win the Super Bowl last year. It is, however, a reminder that the Steelers haven't fared well recently with receivers taken in the first round. Plaxico Burress struggled with inconsistency. Troy Edwards never did anything. Holmes may be more willing to accept the realities of playing in the Steel City -- more blocking and less pass-catching opportunities than first-round receivers are used to -- but he'll still have to understand that Hines Ward is the man in that system. [/b]


Edwards was drafted in the first round prematurely, Steelers dropped the ball here, no pun intended. Plax was drafted a little earlier than he should have been also, all because of one good bowl game. But neither had Ben and oour new well rounded offense, Holmes will be a star in the Burgh!

BB2W
05-27-2006, 09:54 AM
I hear this Cowher related stat alot here - only losing 1 out 108 games after being in a 11 point lead.

The thing is, we dont have any real context for it - what is the NFL average?, how does it compare to other top coaches historically?
I'm sure the average is not 99.991%

tony hipchest
05-27-2006, 10:03 AM
Hey BBC,



The thing is, we dont have any real context for it - what is the NFL average?, how does it compare to other top coaches historically?

I have no idea how to go about finding this stat as it doesnt show up on the end of game stats.

NM i remember last year during MNF they were talking about a similar stat of bill parcells. cowher had him beat by like 20-25 games i think.

Santonio4
05-27-2006, 10:24 PM
Santonio Holmes, WR, Pittsburgh: This is no knock on the organization, because it did win the Super Bowl last year. It is, however, a reminder that the Steelers haven't fared well recently with receivers taken in the first round. Plaxico Burress struggled with inconsistency. Troy Edwards never did anything. Holmes may be more willing to accept the realities of playing in the Steel City -- more blocking and less pass-catching opportunities than first-round receivers are used to -- but he'll still have to understand that Hines Ward is the man in that system. [/b]


Edwards was drafted in the first round prematurely, Steelers dropped the ball here, no pun intended. Plax was drafted a little earlier than he should have been also, all because of one good bowl game. But neither had Ben and oour new well rounded offense, Holmes will be a star in the Burgh!

Yup! He might not be a pro bowler anytime soon because of two reasons: We run the ball all the time, and when we do pass Hines is the primary guy. But maybe all that will change and we can unleash Big Ben.

ben2hines=6
05-29-2006, 01:25 AM
by far the worst situation for any player drafted in the first round was deangelo williams to the panthers....ur taking a scat back to a team who has a power run game! this pick was unbelievably stupid. i mean yea they dont trust foster but u have to take a power back to replace stephen davis. why not lindel white with that pick, u have time to give him to learn his system and he has a proven man in front to take some slack off him just like at USC. i feel that the best part about this pick was that the colts didnt get him...haha

Livinginthe past
05-29-2006, 05:14 AM
I'm sure the average is not 99.991%

For sure its probably has to be the best - its just that losing games you have led by 11 points must be relatively rare - and if you factor in it being a succesful team it should make it even rarer.

NM

Livinginthe past
05-29-2006, 05:16 AM
i remember last year during MNF they were talking about a similar stat of bill parcells. cowher had him beat by like 20-25 games i think.

Thats interesting - Parcells is a good coach and 25 games is a big difference.

It would be nice to be able to compare him to the likes of Landry and Lombardi just to see how impressive it really was.

NM

3 to be 4
05-29-2006, 07:19 AM
Lombardi? He sucks!! they should name it the Cowher Trophy.

SteelerFanInCA
05-30-2006, 03:53 PM
Santonio Holmes, WR, Pittsburgh: This is no knock on the organization, because it did win the Super Bowl last year. It is, however, a reminder that the Steelers haven't fared well recently with receivers taken in the first round. Plaxico Burress struggled with inconsistency. Troy Edwards never did anything. Holmes may be more willing to accept the realities of playing in the Steel City -- more blocking and less pass-catching opportunities than first-round receivers are used to -- but he'll still have to understand that Hines Ward is the man in that system. [/B]


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jeffri_chadiha/05/03/draft.luck/1.html


Okay...Point 1) SI is a rag that makes my parrot stick its butt OUT of its cage so as to not improve upon its writing.
Point 2) If they paid any atention at all to Pitts drafting trends, they would see that We have gotten away from drafting Edwards/Burress caliber of players...and started drafting players with better character. I think that We have just figured out that Cincy wants all the Chris Henrys of the world, and since they will ALWAYS have better draft position than us..they can have them
Point 3) As an ex-army Vet...let me explain something to SI writers...Bengals Fans ...Homeless people...Ray Lewis...and those "special" people who have been institutionalized. The quality of the weapons you possess are never based on how often you use them...they are SOLELY based on effectivness when utilized and the ability of the user to know when/where/how to utilize them. To say that Holmes is a poor pick for Pitt because We have Ward...is the military equivalant of saying that planes are useless since we have tanks. Holmes is a legitimate weapon unto himself...PERIOD!
Point 4) I seem to remember a very effective ground game in the late 70's ...and two HALL OF FAME recievers that even SI may recall were ...oh I dont know...HALL OF FAME RECIEVERS!!! Makes one think that a good ground game and effective passing attack may co-exist. HMMMMM...some may even call that a "well-balanced" team.
Well..back to teaching my parrot that the crap on its SI bedliner was there before I lined its cage.
Well put. I agree those clowns from SI usually have their heads shoved up thier a s s e s.

Black@Gold Forever32
05-30-2006, 04:08 PM
Lombardi? He sucks!! they should name it the Cowher Trophy.

I agree lol. I mean who is Vince Lombardi compared to Bill Cowher? Ok just joking but I still found your post very funny.:sofunny:

tony hipchest
05-30-2006, 05:00 PM
Thats interesting - Parcells is a good coach and 25 games is a big difference.

It would be nice to be able to compare him to the likes of Landry and Lombardi just to see how impressive it really was.

NM

diffucult to find info on. cowher has won about 130+ games. he has had atleast a 10 point lead in 100 of those and only lost once with said lead. you can look at some of his peers mentionned below and see he has an excellent %


... while his record is 76-7 when his teams open a 10+-point lead. ... Dungy, one of the most respected and popular NFL coaches, also has a reputation for ...
www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=coachbio&coach

In Mike Holmgren's 14 years as an NFL head coach, he has never won as many as six road ... They couldn't hold a 10-point lead with 166 seconds remaining. ...
www.hbo.com/infl/columns/ articles/kalb/20051205kalb.shtml - 37k


Gruden, the NFL's youngest head coach, has a 40-28 record in four seasons with the Raiders. He led the team to the AFC title game a year ago, and the Raiders lost this year in a second-round game to eventual Super Bowl champion New England after blowing a 10-point lead in the final quarter.http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/news/2002/02/18/buccaneers_gruden/ [jon grudens buccaneeers also gave up that huge lead to the colts on mnf]

Parcells has a remarkable 50-1 record when entering the fourth quarter with a lead of 11 points or more in his head coaching career. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Parcells