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View Full Version : So NO ONE on this roster can win the RG job....


BKAnthem
08-18-2011, 12:22 PM
...or No 2 corner? Whoever has the assignment to scout those 2 positions should have been fired years ago....Or Colbert isn't the genius he's touted to be:noidea:...

stiller39
08-18-2011, 12:44 PM
I like the fact that they are looking and giving some new blood a chance to show who wants it. It creates great competion and makes your team better. Its kinda like how we "found" Willie Parker, James Harrison, etc......Lots of blue chippers don't pan out and its the diamonds in the rough that make a difference on a championship caliber team.

Farrior_roirraW
08-18-2011, 12:52 PM
Yeah, that must be it. Colbert's not a genius. :doh:

Fire Arians
08-18-2011, 01:11 PM
keep an eye on donovan warren (for cornerbacks)

Wallabeast17
08-18-2011, 02:44 PM
keep an eye on donovan warren (for cornerbacks)

I said that way back when we signed him! No one believed me then. Behind Ike he was one of the better corners playing in the redskins gam IMO. Lewis, Gay, etc. got burned all night. I even remember Gay going in for one play in the 3rd quarter or so and got beat by a 3rd team reciever!

Fire Arians
08-18-2011, 02:53 PM
yeah he was a high cb prospect out of college that fell big time in the draft because he got injured before the combine and ran a 4.59 as a result (which is probably still faster than gay). he's healthy now, let's see what he can do

thumper
08-18-2011, 03:35 PM
...or No 2 corner? Whoever has the assignment to scout those 2 positions should have been fired years ago....Or Colbert isn't the genius he's touted to be:noidea:...

Oh no. You can't ever question anything that the front office or ownership
does! You aren't worthy. And you can't possibly identify any mistakes that
they made because they are perfect. It was smart to virtually ignore the
QB position since drafting Bradshaw until Ben. It was smart to give
Kordell a new contract when he had two years remaining on his old one
and was playing like the worst QB in the NFL. It was smart to draft Scott
Shields, Alonzo Jackson, Bruce Davis, Spaeth, Ricardo Colclough, Limas
Sweed, Jermain Stephens, Huey Richardson, et al. They are infallible. We
are not allowed to question anything they do because we are so inferior.
It is actually smart to make Ben a $100 million QB and that not ensure he
doesn't have even an average OL to protect him. Hell, it was smart to keep
a CB unit of Chad Scott and Dwayne Washington. They were really good.

55BaileyFan
08-18-2011, 03:36 PM
Bullshit. Tony Hills is going to be an excellent RG, he is getting his chance and I have no doubt he will make the most of it. The Steelers will be fine at corner, we had bad corners last year and made the big dance.

People need to stop being melodramatic about these two positions.

theplatypus
08-18-2011, 03:43 PM
You are such a sad little man.

3rdandlong
08-18-2011, 03:48 PM
These damn threads always turning into people fighting with each other. Let's just talk football for God's sake!

theplatypus
08-18-2011, 03:53 PM
These damn threads always turning into people fighting with each other. Let's just talk football for God's sake!

There;s no fighting I truly feel sorry for the handicapped, whether it be physical or mental. I'll have to try and remember him in my prayers.

solardave
08-18-2011, 03:57 PM
Oh no. You can't ever question anything that the front office or ownership
does! You aren't worthy. And you can't possibly identify any mistakes that
they made because they are perfect. It was smart to virtually ignore the
QB position since drafting Bradshaw until Ben. It was smart to give
Kordell a new contract when he had two years remaining on his old one
and was playing like the worst QB in the NFL. It was smart to draft Scott
Shields, Alonzo Jackson, Bruce Davis, Spaeth, Ricardo Colclough, Limas
Sweed, Jermain Stephens, Huey Richardson, et al. They are infallible. We
are not allowed to question anything they do because we are so inferior.
It is actually smart to make Ben a $100 million QB and that not ensure he
doesn't have even an average OL to protect him. Hell, it was smart to keep
a CB unit of Chad Scott and Dwayne Washington. They were really good.

Half of these guys were here before Colbert got here.I won't argue with any of the names you put out there. Let me throw some names at you. Ben, Pouncey,Timmons,Woodley, Colon, Big Snack, Aaron,Wallace,Ward,Burress,Sanders.

Enough yet. Who did they replace Scott with. Some slacker named Woodsen. Man he sure didn't pan out. Yeah, point out we let him get away. Dan Rooney said it was one of the moves he regretted. He still went in a STEELER!!!! But that's probably because our FO sucks. I'm not saying they anywhere near perfect but they do a hell of a lot better than most. THE TRACK RECORD SPEAKS FOR IT SELF. I don't give a damn what you say!!

kirklandrules
08-18-2011, 04:53 PM
Half of these guys were here before Colbert got here.I won't argue with any of the names you put out there. Let me throw some names at you. Ben, Pouncey,Timmons,Woodley, Colon, Big Snack, Aaron,Wallace,Ward,Burress,Sanders.

Enough yet. Who did they replace Scott with. Some slacker named Woodsen. Man he sure didn't pan out. Yeah, point out we let him get away. Dan Rooney said it was one of the moves he regretted. He still went in a STEELER!!!! But that's probably because our FO sucks. I'm not saying they anywhere near perfect but they do a hell of a lot better than most. THE TRACK RECORD SPEAKS FOR IT SELF. I don't give a damn what you say!!

You're wasting your time trying to make a point here. He doesn't care for the FO and has suggested that the players are HGH junkies. Yet, somehow he's a fan :screwy:

Wallace17
08-18-2011, 05:09 PM
Everybody makes mistakes but we do draft very well. If we didnt we would be raiding the free agent market, We make it to the playoffs almost every year give the team some credit. Still think they should fire bruce the d bag.

LVSteelersfan
08-18-2011, 05:17 PM
I won't say the FO is perfect. But I will say they are better than the FOs of about 95% of the teams in the NFL. The people who constantly complain about how they do things obviously don't follow the way they do things in Cleveland, Cincinnati, Oakland, Seattle, Buffalo, etc. Those front office people are pathetic. And to say that you have to hit on every single draft choice is ludicrous. No team does it. It is impossible to project exactly how players are going to go from college into the pros. But keep complaining while the Steelers keep winning.

MasterOfPuppets
08-18-2011, 05:36 PM
i'm not so sure i like the idea of hills at guard. interior linemen need to be maulers who can push defensive linemen backwards using nothing but brute strength. that is exactly what guys like essex and hartwig lacked and the reason our short yardage running game sucked ass the last few years. colon fits the mauler description perfectly , hills ? ... not at all....:doh:

Steelersfan87
08-18-2011, 05:44 PM
Might as well hold further judgment on Hills until after tonight's game, don't you think? Tonight is his chance to prove himself to everybody in the Steelers community, especially the fans.

thumper
08-18-2011, 06:37 PM
Hills knock on him in college is that he was more finesse than power. Does
that sound like a RG?

tony hipchest
08-19-2011, 12:12 AM
Oh no. You can't ever question anything that the front office or ownership
does! You aren't worthy. And you can't possibly identify any mistakes that
they made because they are perfect. It was smart to virtually ignore the
QB position since drafting Bradshaw until Ben. It was smart to give
Kordell a new contract when he had two years remaining on his old one
and was playing like the worst QB in the NFL. It was smart to draft Scott
Shields, Alonzo Jackson, Bruce Davis, Spaeth, Ricardo Colclough, Limas
Sweed, Jermain Stephens, Huey Richardson, et al. They are infallible. We
are not allowed to question anything they do because we are so inferior.
It is actually smart to make Ben a $100 million QB and that not ensure he
doesn't have even an average OL to protect him. Hell, it was smart to keep
a CB unit of Chad Scott and Dwayne Washington. They were really good.

T-3Iq3XQkAw

:thumbsup:

Steelersfan87
08-19-2011, 12:15 AM
Hills did not score particularly well on my own personal eye test tonight, although he did have to unexpectedly shuffle around due to injuries. Chris Scott was also unimpressive from what I could tell, as was Keith Williams. In fact, I didn't think that the guard play throughout the game was particularly good, but I will wait to see what others who actually re-watch and examine every play have to say. I thought that Gilbert, outside of his penalty, played fairly well on his limited time. I see his potential and I am willing to work through his growing pains if that becomes necessary. It's not like the line standard is particularly high as it is.

BKAnthem
08-19-2011, 01:22 PM
Bullshit. Tony Hills is going to be an excellent RG, he is getting his chance and I have no doubt he will make the most of it. The Steelers will be fine at corner, we had bad corners last year and made the big dance.

People need to stop being melodramatic about these two positions.

He was drafted as a tackle though...and he can't even crack that position...and NO other corner on the roster is better than BMac? all dude does is give up 30 yard cushions to wr'sthen rushes in to make the tackle after giving up a first down recepton...gay tries to cover but is slower than Casey Hampton...doesn't anyone get tired of watching him chase tight ends down the field after a catch? they are a Little TO DEPENDENT ON THE BLITZ and need to concentrate on getting more people that can cover, especially since teams are catching up to it...i mean Chad Henne smoked them last season...Henne

Steelersfan87
08-19-2011, 01:55 PM
Don't you think the coaches tell Bryant McFadden to play off the ball like that? He plays within a scheme, he's not a rogue.

Fire Arians
08-19-2011, 02:01 PM
Don't you think the coaches tell Bryant McFadden to play off the ball like that? He plays within a scheme, he's not a rogue.

they probably tell him to play off like that cause he can't cover. if we have a better #2 than mcfadden, we won't have to scheme around that weakness

BKAnthem
08-19-2011, 02:03 PM
they probably tell him to play off like that cause he can't cover. if we have a better #2 than mcfadden, we won't have to scheme around that weakness

:applaudit:

Thank You...

Steelersfan87
08-19-2011, 02:17 PM
The Steelers don't play pure cover because they're more interested in not giving up big plays than they are in making big plays. It has a lot more to do with the system that they choose to run than it does the personnel. Is Bryant McFadden one of the best #2 corners in the league? No, probably not. Is he better than a lot of other teams' #2 corners? Yeah, probably. But nobody else on the roster has as of yet shown that they are better than him, and this was not a good year to try to bring in a free agent starter in the secondary either.

BKAnthem
08-19-2011, 02:37 PM
The Steelers don't play pure cover because they're more interested in not giving up big plays than they are in making big plays. It has a lot more to do with the system that they choose to run than it does the personnel. Is Bryant McFadden one of the best #2 corners in the league? No, probably not. Is he better than a lot of other teams' #2 corners? Yeah, probably. But nobody else on the roster has as of yet shown that they are better than him, and this was not a good year to try to bring in a free agent starter in the secondary either.

trust me dude..if Bmac was a cover corner like Taylor he would not be playing off like that...and the D is structured for the Big Play...they blitz every down, sacks are big plays

solardave
08-19-2011, 04:17 PM
You're wasting your time trying to make a point here. He doesn't care for the FO and has suggested that the players are HGH junkies. Yet, somehow he's a fan :screwy:

I know I'm wasting my time. And usually I don't even waste it making a comment back but I was in a bad mood. I agree about him being a "fan". With fans like him we don't need enemies.

Danny136200
08-19-2011, 04:33 PM
Oh no. You can't ever question anything that the front office or ownership
does! You aren't worthy. And you can't possibly identify any mistakes that
they made because they are perfect. It was smart to virtually ignore the
QB position since drafting Bradshaw until Ben. It was smart to give
Kordell a new contract when he had two years remaining on his old one
and was playing like the worst QB in the NFL. It was smart to draft Scott
Shields, Alonzo Jackson, Bruce Davis, Spaeth, Ricardo Colclough, Limas
Sweed, Jermain Stephens, Huey Richardson, et al. They are infallible. We
are not allowed to question anything they do because we are so inferior.
It is actually smart to make Ben a $100 million QB and that not ensure he
doesn't have even an average OL to protect him. Hell, it was smart to keep
a CB unit of Chad Scott and Dwayne Washington. They were really good.

So, we wiffed on some draft picks over the last 15-20 years, who hasn't? The fact that we have been competing in for playoff spots, division championships, superbowls, for the past decade says something about the FO. They are smart and really good at what they do. Of course, like every other human being, they make mistakes. The gap between Ben and Terry Was a HUGE one IMO, as we still competed, but were missing the final peice. Draft wiffs are pretty normal IMO, but the FO has done a phenomenal job keeping the steelers in the running for a superbowl almost every single year for the past 10 years.
I have probably have more faith in the oline to hold up this year than most people. Ibam very excited and optimistic about this unit. I am also excited to see the young CBS get some playing time for the young CBs. I think that they will grow into formidable group.

DanRooney
08-19-2011, 04:42 PM
There is a bunch of cheerleaders on this board. It seems that anyone who criticizes any part of this team is seen as the bad guy or the guy who thinks we're going 0-16 but that's not the case.

Every team has it's weaknesses, some moreso than others, and the Steelers are no exception. If we all agreed that the Steelers were a great team (which they are) and nothing was wrong with them (which is false) this board would 1. delusional and 2. boring. We understand that you can't have star players at every position in the salary cap era, but there's always room to get better. We made it to the SB last year but we still can improve on our secondary and solidify jobs on the offensive line. I mean no other team in the NFL is playing musical chairs with RG, LT and LG like we are. Our secondary is horrendous and anyone who thinks differently is out of their mind. But the Steelers FO is making steps (half assed ones) at improving it by bringing in a bunch of guys like Macho Harris and trying new starters like Donovan Warren.

So please, stop freaking out by the criticisms made by other posters on this board.

Steelersfan87
08-19-2011, 04:59 PM
trust me dude..if Bmac was a cover corner like Taylor he would not be playing off like that...and the D is structured for the Big Play...they blitz every down, sacks are big plays

No kidding McFadden is not a cover corner. The problem that you are having, however, is that you assume only cover corners are the truly good corners. Pure cover corners are not necessarily good fits for the Steelers either. With the exception of the few elite pure cover corners in the league (like Revis and Asomugha), they are much more susceptible to giving up the big play because they are more liable to freelance and take risks, something that the zone blitz does in a calculated way that leaves behind protection to limit the big play. My comment about the 'big play' was meant more specifically for the cornerback play in this sense. The cornerback's top priority in the Steeler scheme is not to allow a big play (in fact, the Steelers allowed only 1 play of 20+ yards last night, and that was late in the 4th quarter). They are not given carte blanche like somebody like Asante Samuel is at the CB position to take risks the way he did last night, including Ike Taylor. They are disciplined to maintain their assignments and let others make the plays because that is the way that Lebeau's defense works best. His defense would still work best this way even if they had better pure talent at the CB position. But you can't, for example, blame McFadden for playing that far off the ball when he's told to play that far off the ball. Remember, an 18 yard completion on 3rd and 20 is a victory.

Edit: It's seriously idiotic (or at least reactionary) to say that the secondary is "horrendous". It's when people say things like this that people like me stop taking you seriously. People that act like the secondary having bad games against elite offenses is a problem inherent only to the Steelers are overwhelmingly shortsighted.

pete74
08-19-2011, 05:21 PM
There is a bunch of cheerleaders on this board. It seems that anyone who criticizes any part of this team is seen as the bad guy or the guy who thinks we're going 0-16 but that's not the case.

Every team has it's weaknesses, some moreso than others, and the Steelers are no exception. If we all agreed that the Steelers were a great team (which they are) and nothing was wrong with them (which is false) this board would 1. delusional and 2. boring. We understand that you can't have star players at every position in the salary cap era, but there's always room to get better. We made it to the SB last year but we still can improve on our secondary and solidify jobs on the offensive line. I mean no other team in the NFL is playing musical chairs with RG, LT and LG like we are. Our secondary is horrendous and anyone who thinks differently is out of their mind. But the Steelers FO is making steps (half assed ones) at improving it by bringing in a bunch of guys like Macho Harris and trying new starters like Donovan Warren.

So please, stop freaking out by the criticisms made by other posters on this board.
I agree 100% with everything but our secondary. There not great but there not horrendous

DanRooney
08-19-2011, 06:00 PM
I'll rephrase. Our DBs outside of Troy Polamalu, who makes everyone in the secondary look good/play better and Ike Taylor, are horrendous cover corners.

If you think Bryant McFadden, William Gay, and Keenan Lewis are average or better, you're wrong. They are very bad cover corners. You take out our pass rush and they'll get feasted on by any quarterback in the league. There is a reason Arizona got rid of McFadden and no team jumped on William Gay after being a FA twice. There's also a reason we only signed him to a 1 year extension for the last two seasons.

We have bad depth at corner until one of our young guys can step up. That's why McFadden and Gay are entrenched at the #2 and #3 position.

Fire Arians
08-19-2011, 06:23 PM
I'll rephrase. Our DBs outside of Troy Polamalu, who makes everyone in the secondary look good/play better and Ike Taylor, are horrendous cover corners.

If you think Bryant McFadden, William Gay, and Keenan Lewis are average or better, you're wrong. They are very bad cover corners. You take out our pass rush and they'll get feasted on by any quarterback in the league. There is a reason Arizona got rid of McFadden and no team jumped on William Gay after being a FA twice. There's also a reason we only signed him to a 1 year extension for the last two seasons.

We have bad depth at corner until one of our young guys can step up. That's why McFadden and Gay are entrenched at the #2 and #3 position.

i'd say give lewis a chance this preseason to prove he's better. he definitely has more talent than both mcfadden and gay combined.

hopefully butler is better from his injury before the next game, he was one of my predictions to make a splash this year

pete74
08-19-2011, 07:57 PM
I'll rephrase. Our DBs outside of Troy Polamalu, who makes everyone in the secondary look good/play better and Ike Taylor, are horrendous cover corners.

If you think Bryant McFadden, William Gay, and Keenan Lewis are average or better, you're wrong. They are very bad cover corners. You take out our pass rush and they'll get feasted on by any quarterback in the league. There is a reason Arizona got rid of McFadden and no team jumped on William Gay after being a FA twice. There's also a reason we only signed him to a 1 year extension for the last two seasons.

We have bad depth at corner until one of our young guys can step up. That's why McFadden and Gay are entrenched at the #2 and #3 position.

to much complaining. this is the same team that won us a super bowl and took us to another last year. this isnt a perfect world and with a salary cap its not possible to have top tier players at every position so who would you give up to get that perfect secondary? woodley? hood? troy? harrison? heyward? timmons? there isnt enough money to pay everyone 10mil a year so you need to choose and i think the steelers made some good decisions

Steelersfan87
08-20-2011, 12:22 AM
Again with this false notion that non-cover corners are poor corners. And yes, Bryant McFadden is an average #2 corner, and William Gay is an average #3 corner. Maybe you should actually look at what the rest of the league has to compare, unless your issue is terminological, at which point I would suggest that you look up the term "average".

theplatypus
08-20-2011, 07:34 AM
There is a bunch of cheerleaders on this board. It seems that anyone who criticizes any part of this team is seen as the bad guy or the guy who thinks we're going 0-16 but that's not the case.

Every team has it's weaknesses, some moreso than others, and the Steelers are no exception. If we all agreed that the Steelers were a great team (which they are) and nothing was wrong with them (which is false) this board would 1. delusional and 2. boring. We understand that you can't have star players at every position in the salary cap era, but there's always room to get better. We made it to the SB last year but we still can improve on our secondary and solidify jobs on the offensive line. I mean no other team in the NFL is playing musical chairs with RG, LT and LG like we are. Our secondary is horrendous and anyone who thinks differently is out of their mind. But the Steelers FO is making steps (half assed ones) at improving it by bringing in a bunch of guys like Macho Harris and trying new starters like Donovan Warren.

So please, stop freaking out by the criticisms made by other posters on this board.


Personally it's not the criticisms made about the team. It's the pure relentless negativity based on what frequently amounts to garbage logic that drives me nuts.

Frequently we hear "our db's suck, they're horrendous" blah blah blah. Really, lets look at for minute. Are they playing zone or man? What is the player in question's responsibilty? Was he supposed to have help? Did he get it? How much of the field was he supposed to cover? There are probably 2 dozen more questions along the same lines that the sky is falling crowd can't answer. All that is given is player x sucks. Occasionally we'll get a little glen beckesque gem from them like if he didn't suck then why wasn;t he snatched up in free agency.

;yawn

We have a similar situation with the Arians sucks crowd. Some of the things we see from them are he sucks because "he's predictable, people are amazed that I can predict the play before the snap".
There are only two options, run or pass you haven't exactly just reached the summit of Mt Everest here.

"Arians sucks because he will call a 20 yard pass on 3rd and 1". Really? What was the play Arians called? What was the 1st option? 2nd? 3rd? Did Ben pump fake? Did Ben audible? What was the defense showing? Did the defensiive formation or personnel dictate that going for a long pass was a better option?

DanRooney
08-20-2011, 11:06 AM
With an elite pass rush, an elite safety, and a solid #1 corner, you would think average corners would be just fine. Those two aren't. Below average. No team would have them as #2 and #3 except for maybe the Texans and I didn't see them making a move for Gay.

Arians is a moron. I'm not going to even elaborate on that because I know it and you know it.

BKAnthem
08-20-2011, 11:18 AM
I'm just glad this isn't a board full of homers...the criticism, relentless as it may seem is because their seems to be minimal effort to fix the problem by the FO....drafting DB's an OL in the 3rd round and below when EVERYONE has identified these as areas of need is baffling and infuriating to some of us and we feel the need to comment, we don't have to be pro analysts to recognize obvious flaws

DanRooney
08-20-2011, 11:21 AM
to much complaining. this is the same team that won us a super bowl and took us to another last year. this isnt a perfect world and with a salary cap its not possible to have top tier players at every position so who would you give up to get that perfect secondary? woodley? hood? troy? harrison? heyward? timmons? there isnt enough money to pay everyone 10mil a year so you need to choose and i think the steelers made some good decisions

Didn't I just say that in this same thread? :thumbsup:

Steelersfan87
08-21-2011, 01:26 AM
The Steelers just drafted 2 offensive linemen in the first 2 rounds in the past two years. Curtis Brown could very well prove to be better than some of the CBs that were drafted ahead of him as well. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they take another CB in the first 3 rounds next year as well.

dreegking
08-21-2011, 01:44 AM
The Steelers have multiple guys who can play on the oline in multiple positions with plenty of talent to serviiceably complete a good oline.

The same can be said for the secondary. The competition hasn't been stronger with the talent as deep this year, in a very long time. No worries.

DanRooney
08-21-2011, 05:28 AM
The Steelers just drafted 2 offensive linemen in the first 2 rounds in the past two years. Curtis Brown could very well prove to be better than some of the CBs that were drafted ahead of him as well. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they take another CB in the first 3 rounds next year as well.

Why on Earth would they do that?! We have a solid nickel corner in William Gay! Secondary help? No way. Team's set. Why draft at all?! :wink02:

BKAnthem
08-21-2011, 07:46 PM
Why on Earth would they do that?! We have a solid nickel corner in William Gay! Secondary help? No way. Team's set. Why draft at all?! :wink02:

:rofl: