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fer522
08-25-2011, 05:21 PM
On The Steelers: It's a fight to the finish for Aaron Smith
Thursday, August 25, 2011
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Peter Diana/Post-GazettePittsburgh Steelers defensive end Aaron Smith takes a break between workouts during training camp at St Vincent College, Latrobe, PA.Most athletes will say they will know when it's their time to quit, that no one will have to tell them. Then, someone has to tell them.

Few retire voluntarily. Lynn Swann did. Joe Greene did. Jack Ham did. Not many others did. Center Mike Webster retired from the Steelers, joined the Kansas City coaching staff, then unretired and played for the Chiefs the next two seasons. Running back Willie Parker hasn't played a regular-season NFL game since 2009, but he is trying to return and is playing for the Virginia Destroyers of the UFL. Running back Tiki Barber tried to end four years of retirement this summer at age 36, but no one wanted him.

Steelers defensive end Aaron Smith adds a new dimension, saying he will not know when it is time to quit.

"No, I don't think I'll know. They'll have to tell me. My personality is I feel I can do anything. I've always felt anything is possible; you can always turn things around. I'm kind of an optimist. Maybe, it's denial to a point. It would be hard for me to admit it to myself.

"Someone would have to say, 'Hey, Aaron, you're not doing this, you're not doing that. You need to hang it up or something.' "

No one has told Smith that yet, but, if he is true to his word, someone will have to tell him. It could come this year because, at age 35, he's closing in on that day. He had two serious arm injuries that have ruined his past two seasons. He played five games in 2009 before he had to have surgery to correct a torn rotator cuff. He played six last season before he had to have surgery to repair a torn triceps.

Smith returned to practice this week after missing about 10 days and one preseason game because of swelling in his knee. He has practiced the past two days and said he feels good, but he knows he is not immune.

Continued on next page


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11237/1169751-66.stm#ixzz1W58HhHy3

tony hipchest
08-25-2011, 07:25 PM
so many steelerfans are ready to push him out the door already, whereas all his teammates, coaching staff, and FO would like to slap those fans in the face and tell them to wake the hell up.

pancake
08-25-2011, 08:33 PM
Smith has been great for the Steel city, and I for one will miss him when he is gone...

Fire Arians
08-25-2011, 10:17 PM
when healthy, he's the best 3-4 DE in the NFL. there's just a lot of doubt whether he can stay healthy for the entire season, since he hasn't been able to lately.

combine that with the fact that ziggy has proven he's ready to start, and do a fine job at it. and not to mention salary cap issues. he's making a ton of money and forcing a very capable starter in ziggy hood to spend time on the bench

Steelersfan87
08-25-2011, 11:00 PM
And then the only backup DEs we have are inexperienced rookies.

SH-Rock
08-25-2011, 11:03 PM
I expect the FO to tell him and Farrior maybe even Ward to retire to save face instead of cutting them and disgracing them.

tony hipchest
08-25-2011, 11:05 PM
when healthy, he's the best 3-4 DE in the NFL. there's just a lot of doubt whether he can stay healthy for the entire season, since he hasn't been able to lately.

combine that with the fact that ziggy has proven he's ready to start, and do a fine job at it. and not to mention salary cap issues. he's making a ton of money and forcing a very capable starter in ziggy hood to spend time on the bench

any money we spend on smith now, will be recouped when it comes time to give ziggy hood his 2nd contract w/o the inflated stats or starts.

this is the steelers way. i dont understand how many die hard steelerfans refuse to see this very simple and time tried concept.

ziggy hood still hasnt proven to be better than a healthier aaron smith. if he had, smith would be gone, or on the bench with a paycut.

a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush. its not rocket science.

Fire Arians
08-25-2011, 11:19 PM
any money we spend on smith now, will be recouped when it comes time to give ziggy hood his 2nd contract w/o the inflated stats or starts.

this is the steelers way. i dont understand how many die hard steelerfans refuse to see this very simple and time tried concept.

ziggy hood still hasnt proven to be better than a healthier aaron smith. if he had, smith would be gone, or on the bench with a paycut.

a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush. its not rocket science.

I'll come back and eat crow if he plays out the season without getting put on IR again. just from his track record of not being able to finish a season out in the last few years, I'm not confident that he can do it anymore. for as much money as he's making, it's not worth only having his services for 8 games.

as for ziggy he has the potential to be better than aaron smith, but won't get any better rotting on the bench. sure he's not aaron smith yet, but he's already pretty damn good.

tony hipchest
08-25-2011, 11:54 PM
for as much money as he's making, it's not worth only having his services for 8 games.

.i beg to differ... it most certainly is, especially if hood were named the starter and went down with a season ending injury in week nine.

most average joe fans tend to forget how important smith is to dick lebeau running his defensive scheme, but the players and coaches never fail to mention it.

maybe ALL the players and coaches are just idiots and the cap savy scout fans are all geniuses.

the brilliant fanboys need to remember that the rooneys are one of the last franchises to run theior operation as a family business. smith and ward are 2 of the longest tenured players, and their mutual loyalty pays of way more than measured stats on the field.

theres a reason players will take less money to stay and play, and a reason the steelers are so successful in retaining their own.

theres a reason the steelers (led by rooneys) have more lombardis than any other team.

Fire Arians
08-26-2011, 12:01 AM
I never said the players / coaches were idiots, don't put words in my mouth bro. I'm just saying I'm not confident that Smith will say healthy for the entire year. If he does, then I'll gladly say I was wrong. Hood might go down with a freak injury but come on man, the chances of a younger player like hood getting a season ending injury is much less.

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 12:02 AM
Should have IR'd him last year and kept Gibson :coffee:

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 12:04 AM
I expect the FO to tell him and Farrior maybe even Ward to retire to save face instead of cutting them and disgracing them.

Yep :hatsoff:

Of course we still have guys in here who think Ward is still an elite receiver because he averaged 0.8 more YPC than Roddy White last year ("SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER!"). Nevermind the fact that Roddy had double the yards, TDs and receptions Ward had. Those are just 'fantasy stats.' Meaningless. :chuckle:

Steelersfan87
08-26-2011, 12:07 AM
I'll come back and eat crow if he plays out the season without getting put on IR again. just from his track record of not being able to finish a season out in the last few years, I'm not confident that he can do it anymore. for as much money as he's making, it's not worth only having his services for 8 games.

as for ziggy he has the potential to be better than aaron smith, but won't get any better rotting on the bench. sure he's not aaron smith yet, but he's already pretty damn good.

Again, if the Steelers choose to cut Aaron Smith, who do they have at backup DE? Two rookies. Granted, Cameron Heyward is a first round pick, but do you think he should be starting already? I don't want him a snap away from starting a game just yet. And the other likely DE without Smith would be who, Corbin Bryant? Come on, think a little.

Secondly, as the coaches have stated ad infinitum this offseason, Ziggy Hood is going to be used like a "4th starter" this year. He's going to be subbing in and out for both Smith and Keisel this year and will very likely see as many snaps as either of them. He will get his playing time. He just won't be starting. At least not to begin the season.

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 12:12 AM
Again, if the Steelers choose to cut Aaron Smith, who do they have at backup DE? Two rookies. Granted, Cameron Heyward is a first round pick, but do you think he should be starting already? I don't want him a snap away from starting a game just yet. And the other likely DE without Smith would be who, Corbin Bryant? Come on, think a little.

Secondly, as the coaches have stated ad infinitum this offseason, Ziggy Hood is going to be used like a "4th starter" this year. He's going to be subbing in and out for both Smith and Keisel this year and will very likely see as many snaps as either of them. He will get his playing time. He just won't be starting. At least not to begin the season.

Cameron Heyward will be a better DE than Ziggy Hood. He is a perfect mold for a 3-4 DE. Ziggy wasn't, which is why he was less than spectacular in 2009 when Smith got hurt.

Besides, they're not letting go of Smith. They'll let him play his final year and Heyward will have a year of experience under his belt and being in rotation with Keisel. I don't think they intend to let Ziggy play that side. I going to go on a limb and say he will rotate in at NT rather than there.

tony hipchest
08-26-2011, 12:15 AM
I never said the players / coaches were idiots, don't put words in my mouth bro. I'm just saying I'm not confident that Smith will say healthy for the entire year. If he does, then I'll gladly say I was wrong. Hood might go down with a freak injury but come on man, the chances of a younger player like hood getting a season ending injury is much less.

i never said you said all players/coaches were idiots, so how could i possibly be putting words in your mouth, bro?

as for your off the wall assertion (with no statistical data to back it up) that an older player is more likely to go down with a freak injury than a younger player, how do you explain the average NFL players career only lasting about 3 years (see baron batch) while old dogs such as ward, manning,ray lewis, favre keep on ticking?

even the great jerry rice eventually had a freak accident. his was no different than the much younger javon walker's.

just about every player is gonna suffer a wicked injury at some point regardless of age. (see jerome bettis, duce staley, and willie parker)

its the nature of the beast

tony hipchest
08-26-2011, 12:22 AM
Should have IR'd him last year and kept Gibson :coffee:

why?

would he have kept the bench warmer during the SB?

:hunch:

or are you just an OSU homer? you dont think s. holmes is the greatest wr in the league, do you?

Steelersfan87
08-26-2011, 12:24 AM
Cameron Heyward will be a better DE than Ziggy Hood. He is a perfect mold for a 3-4 DE. Ziggy wasn't, which is why he was less than spectacular in 2009 when Smith got hurt.

Besides, they're not letting go of Smith. They'll let him play his final year and Heyward will have a year of experience under his belt and being in rotation with Keisel. I don't think they intend to let Ziggy play that side. I going to go on a limb and say he will rotate in at NT rather than there.

Keisel has to rest, and Heyward will by no means see even a third of the playing time Hood will see. I'm fully confident that Hood will play plenty of snaps as the RDE this year, as he has the past two years already. Whether or not Heyward will be a better player at the position in the future is irrelevant to 2011, which is the subject under discussion.

MasterOfPuppets
08-26-2011, 12:43 AM
as i've said before, you guys are waaay to obsessed over the word "starter". especially when it comes to the Dline and wr's the two positions so many of you want to push a proven vet to the side for a younger player.
the Dline constantly gets rotated especially at the beginning of the season when its hotter. hood will get his playing time so calm down folks.
as far as WR's go , they use 3 or 4 wr sets more often than not so whats the big deal ?
would you prefer having brown or sanders over ward the best blocking receiver in the nfl , blocking on a running pllay ?

MasterOfPuppets
08-26-2011, 12:49 AM
why?

would he have kept the bench warmer during the SB?

:hunch:

or are you just an OSU homer? you dont think s. holmes is the greatest wr in the league, do you?
not to mention gibson was cut by the niners (now with the skins).. i didn't realize the niners were so stacked at OLBer that they would release such a treasure :doh:

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 12:54 AM
why?

would he have kept the bench warmer during the SB?

:hunch:

or are you just an OSU homer? you dont think s. holmes is the greatest wr in the league, do you?

If Holmes was still on this team, we'd have one of the best WR corps in the past 10 years on any team. Wallace+Holmes+Brown+Sanders+Cotchery...I really don't think you can find a team that can stop that if we go 5 wide.

No, I'm not an OSU fan but I do believe Gibson was a better player than Worilds. IRing Smith means we would have kept Gibson. Looks like the Steelers know they made a mistake too when they tried to bring him back.

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 12:57 AM
Keisel has to rest, and Heyward will by no means see even a third of the playing time Hood will see. I'm fully confident that Hood will play plenty of snaps as the RDE this year, as he has the past two years already. Whether or not Heyward will be a better player at the position in the future is irrelevant to 2011, which is the subject under discussion.

Of course he won't. But I don't think you'll see many snaps from Hood at RDE. I think we'll see him rotating with Smith and Hampton as opposed to Smith and Keisel. He has played NT before. And with Hoke being in his last year, I think it'll be the smart move having a guy like Hood who can play emergency NT. Heyward +Hood+Keisel would be sex on the field.

I'm confident (or at least hope) Heyward will get the rotation at RDE just like Ziggy did at LDE before Smith was injured in 2009 .

MasterOfPuppets
08-26-2011, 12:58 AM
If Holmes was still on this team, we'd have one of the best WR corps in the past 10 years on any team. Wallace+Holmes+Brown+Sanders+Cotchery...I really don't think you can find a team that can stop that if we go 5 wide.

No, I'm not an OSU fan but I do believe Gibson was a better player than Worilds. IRing Smith means we would have kept Gibson. Looks like the Steelers know they made a mistake too when they tried to bring him back.
why do you think the niners cut him so soon ? are they that loaded at olber ?

Fire Arians
08-26-2011, 01:03 AM
Cameron Heyward will be a better DE than Ziggy Hood. He is a perfect mold for a 3-4 DE. Ziggy wasn't, which is why he was less than spectacular in 2009 when Smith got hurt.

Besides, they're not letting go of Smith. They'll let him play his final year and Heyward will have a year of experience under his belt and being in rotation with Keisel. I don't think they intend to let Ziggy play that side. I going to go on a limb and say he will rotate in at NT rather than there.

Heyward is going to be a monster. I can't wait till he learns our defense.

tony hipchest
08-26-2011, 01:08 AM
If Holmes was still on this team, we'd have one of the best WR corps in the past 10 years on any team.

.

if holmes were still on this team, jehrico chrotchsniffery wouldnt even be here, now would he? and we wouldnt have antonio brown, now would we?

why dont you just throw p. burress in the mix and talk about how we would be the greates team of all time. maybe we can talk jerry rice out of retirement as well. :rolleyes:

No, I'm not an OSU fan but I do believe Gibson was a better player than Worilds.

:rofl:

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 01:09 AM
why do you think the niners cut him so soon ? are they that loaded at olber ?

I honestly have no idea. He had very little playing time. I know their defensive scheme probably changed when Singletary got fired. But I can't really speak for the 49ers FO. Drafting Taylor Mays 49th (coincidence?) overall tells me they're not very smart.

I think the Steelers trying to bring him back says a lot more than the 49ers cutting him. Either Gibson was a perfect fit for the Steelers or Worilds has really been shitting the bed (or both).

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 01:17 AM
if holmes were still on this team, jehrico chrotchsniffery wouldnt even be here, now would he? and we wouldnt have antonio brown, now would we?

why dont you just throw p. burress in the mix and talk about how we would be the greates team of all time. maybe we can talk jerry rice out of retirement as well. :rolleyes:



:rofl:

I'm not the one reliving the past with vets like Hines Ward and Taunto Farrior, who are well past their starting era.

Are you obsessed with Jerry Rice? That's the 3rd time you've mentioned him in like 6 posts. He retired a long time ago btw.

And I don't know why your rofling at the hint that Gibson could be better than Worilds. I remember at 2 years ago many people saying Gibson had a much easier time learning our defense. And the Steelers did make an attempt to bring him back. Why do you think they would do this after grabbing Carter in the 5th?

ricardisimo
08-26-2011, 01:55 AM
I'm not the one reliving the past with vets like Hines Ward and Taunto Farrior, who are well past their starting era.
James Farrior was 26th in tackles. In the entire league. And he was 39th in sacks. In the entire league. That's 2nd and 3rd, respectively, on the team. The Hines Ward thing we've already covered in another thread.

You need to up your medication. It's not working right now.

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 02:05 AM
James Farrior was 26th in tackles. In the entire league. And he was 39th in sacks. In the entire league. That's 2nd and 3rd, respectively, on the team. The Hines Ward thing we've already covered in another thread.

You need to up your medication. It's not working right now.

Is 26th in tackles and 39th in sacks is supposed to mean something? I would hope he was 2nd in tackles on the Steelers being one of the two starting ILBs on the team. Did you know that Derrick Mason was #2 in receiving yards on the Ravens team? How on earth could the Ravens release a guy like Mason when he's SECOND in receiving yards on the team. He's also a mentor. :chuckle:

I mean first you tell me not to use fantasy stats when I use numbers like receptions, yards and TDs comparing WRs (which are double that of another player), then you bring up all of these stats that are completely irrelevant like being 39th in the league in sacks. It's hilarious and you have no response to this so you bring up another argument where you get completely owned again.

I normally don't do this but did you go to college? Please tell me you haven't. If you're in high school, I'll stop wasting my time arguing with you. Comparing Hines Ward to Roddy White topped the iceberg :chuckle:

ricardisimo
08-26-2011, 02:19 AM
Fantasy stats? :noidea:
I mean first you tell me not to use fantasy stats when I use numbers like receptions, yards and TDs comparing WRs (which are double that of another player),
When did you use fantasy stats, and when did I tell you not to use them?
then you bring up all of these stats that are completely irrelevant like being 39th in the league in sacks.
Being 26th in the league in tackles and 39th in sacks are fantasy stats? And how is Farrior's production irrelevant to an argument about his productivity?
It's hilarious and you have no response to this so you bring up another argument where you get completely owned again.
What's hilarious? I have no response to what? I was owned somewhere? How much of your life takes place entirely in your head? Do you talk to yourself while you're typing away here? Have you punched your computer monitor in the past few hours?

Like I said, you need to up your dosage. http://smiliesftw.com/x/nuts.gif

solardave
08-26-2011, 02:35 AM
any money we spend on smith now, will be recouped when it comes time to give ziggy hood his 2nd contract w/o the inflated stats or starts.

this is the steelers way. i dont understand how many die hard steelerfans refuse to see this very simple and time tried concept.

ziggy hood still hasnt proven to be better than a healthier aaron smith. if he had, smith would be gone, or on the bench with a paycut.

a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush. its not rocket science.

I have to admit I was wondering if he could come back from this last injury. Having said that if he is healthy I agree it's not Ziggy's time yet. Aaron Smith IS the MOST under rated DE in the league and has been for years. He's perfect for a Dick LeBeau defense. Having said that I'll disagree with what Aaron said about retirement. I believe
when his time comes he'll know it and has the class to step down gracefully.

MasterOfPuppets
08-26-2011, 10:58 AM
when his time comes he'll know it and has the class to step down gracefully.
Steelers defensive end Aaron Smith adds a new dimension, saying he will not know when it is time to quit.

"No, I don't think I'll know. They'll have to tell me. My personality is I feel I can do anything. I've always felt anything is possible; you can always turn things around. I'm kind of an optimist. Maybe, it's denial to a point. It would be hard for me to admit it to myself.

"Someone would have to say, 'Hey, Aaron, you're not doing this, you're not doing that. You need to hang it up or something.' "
:noidea:

kirklandrules
08-26-2011, 11:06 AM
I think we'll see him rotating with Smith and Hampton as opposed to Smith and Keisel.

Any snaps for Hood at NT will be on an emergency basis only. They want him at LDE. Hoke will be used this year like the've always used him ... the future starter at NT either has yet to be drafted or may be on the practice squad this year.

kirklandrules
08-26-2011, 11:14 AM
Having said that I'll disagree with what Aaron said about retirement. I believe when his time comes he'll know it and has the class to step down gracefully.

I think the message will come from Lebeau ... hopefully after a SB win. But I'll take Smith at his word that his optimistic nature will prevent him from knowing when he's over the hill.

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 11:20 AM
Any snaps for Hood at NT will be on an emergency basis only. They want him at LDE. Hoke will be used this year like the've always used him ... the future starter at NT either has yet to be drafted or may be on the practice squad this year.

No doubt. But Hoke is on his last year and I think it would be very smart to let Ziggy see more reps there (he played that spot a few snaps in 2009 and 2010). It would also give Heyward a chance to get in at DE if Keisel decides to be selfish :chuckle:

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 11:33 AM
Fantasy stats? :noidea:

When did you use fantasy stats, and when did I tell you not to use them?

Being 26th in the league in tackles and 39th in sacks are fantasy stats? And how is Farrior's production irrelevant to an argument about his productivity?

What's hilarious? I have no response to what? I was owned somewhere? How much of your life takes place entirely in your head? Do you talk to yourself while you're typing away here? Have you punched your computer monitor in the past few hours?

Like I said, you need to up your dosage. http://smiliesftw.com/x/nuts.gif

They're irrelevant because he's not 1st, 2nd, 3rd...5th, 6th, 11th, or even 21st, 31st, he's THIRTY NINTH.

Oh and that was madtowndrunkard who told me fantasy stats were meaningless. I got confused because you both make no sense whatsoever.

What are you trying to prove? That's all I want to know. What the hell are you saying. you just seem to disagree with everything I say because you're bored and you do a bad job of doing it. To clear things up, this is what I've said all along.

1. Ward is too slow to be a #2 receiver. He should be put in rotation. Brown looks ready to be a #2 and is technically playing that spot lined up opposite to Wallace in the preseason. When Sanders is 100%, I expect him to take over the slot position. Ward should be coming off the bench.
2. Farrior has lost about 2 or 3 steps. He's not going to play much longer. Sylvester looks ready.
3. Gay sucks. He's a terrible #2 CB and a mediocre nickelback. He won't be on the team next year.

And you think these comments are far out in left field? What in the world are you smoking?

Steelersfan87
08-26-2011, 11:35 AM
Of course he won't. But I don't think you'll see many snaps from Hood at RDE. I think we'll see him rotating with Smith and Hampton as opposed to Smith and Keisel. He has played NT before. And with Hoke being in his last year, I think it'll be the smart move having a guy like Hood who can play emergency NT. Heyward +Hood+Keisel would be sex on the field.

I'm confident (or at least hope) Heyward will get the rotation at RDE just like Ziggy did at LDE before Smith was injured in 2009 .

Obviously Heyward will be rotated at the RDE spot during the season, for maybe 2 short series or 1 long series a game, as Hood was on both sides of the ball during his first two years prior to injures on the line. Maybe as the season goes on, the disparity between the number of snaps that Ziggy and Heyward get will gradually become more equitable. But more likely than not there will be plenty of instances in which Hood is in the game and Heyward is standing on the sidelines. And some of those times, Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton will probably be in the game. Quite frankly, I expect the Steelers to carry 3 NTs this season (probably Steve McClendon, especially since he can also play DE) in order to prepare for the future and to compensate for the age of their NTs, making it unlikely that Hood sees many, if any snaps at NT in a base package.

Atlanta Dan
08-26-2011, 12:43 PM
so many steelerfans are ready to push him out the door already, whereas all his teammates, coaching staff, and FO would like to slap those fans in the face and tell them to wake the hell up.

Of course, coaches can get misty-eyed about players in decline just as easily as fans and vets are notorious for circling the wagons around teammates with whom they have played for years

It would appear Smith was not put on IR last season based on a pretty much delusional belief he would heal, which cost the Steelers a 4th round pick whom they now have picked up on waivers (indicating that pick had some value)

As far as not saying good-bye to vets for old times sake, even cold blooded Chck Noll could not pull the trigger on vets in decline in the early 80s (i recall DL Dwaine Board, who had some good years for the 49ers in the 80s, being cut in order for Dwight White to get his last year) because of what they did in the 70s - which conributed to the abysmal 1985-91 end to the Noll era.

A. Smith has been a great Steeler but has missed most of the last two seasons while already being injured this pre-season. Accordingly, not having Smith at least be required to take a haircut on his salary after the D clearly survived without him last season (unlike 2009) due to Hood's improvement is a puzzler unless his $5 million is a life achievement award

It's a business - if the Steelers should hold off on a new contract for Troy based on his injury issues, a deciion with which I agree, the same standard should apply to how much A. Smith gets paid

:drink:

kirklandrules
08-26-2011, 02:14 PM
I, for one, don't think Aaron Smith is a waste of money this year. Even if he goes down with another season ending injury. We're talking about a guy who, when healthy, still causes more damage to the opposing offense than any other 3-4 DE. Additionally, he has been one of the more loyal players to this team, great in the community, and one of the most respected amongst his peers. The Rooneys will pay out his final year of contract because to take a dump on him sends a very bad message to the rest of the team. And Dodens Grav is right in stating that to kick Smith to the curb now would present a problem with depth along the D-line. If they intended to get rid of the guy, they would have kept Eason. After all Eason would have been cheaper. The Rooneys obviously feel Aaron Smith is worth the risk of paying his last year of the contract, which is one reason you see guys like Colon and Cotchery take a discount (especially Cotchery) just to be on this team. They didn't do that because the ownership :poop: on it's most respected players.

And there's no comparison with Woodson, Harris, Faneca and other stars who left near the end of their careers. Their contracts were up and the ownership felt it just wasn't worth resigning for big money. This will, in all probability, be Smith's last year with the team and it's not a mistake to let him play out his contract and leave with his head held high.

Atlanta Dan
08-26-2011, 03:44 PM
Additionally, he has been one of the more loyal players to this team, great in the community, and one of the most respected amongst his peers.

All of which is as important to keeping him on the team and setting his salary as whether or not he has neat handwriting and tips well.

The Rooneys will pay out his final year of contract because to take a dump on him sends a very bad message to the rest of the team.

As opposed to giving Joey Porter his release and telling Bettis to take a haircut on the last several years on his contract?:noidea:

I have no doubt Aaron Smith is a good guy - but since the Steelers have never been known for throwing $$$ around without a good reason and have a deserved rep for knowing when to let a player go one year too early rather than one year too late I admit to missing the reason here - hope I am wrong

:drink:

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 04:41 PM
I really haven't seen any decline in his play despite being 35. He was as good as ever in the first half of last season.

Atlanta Dan
08-26-2011, 04:51 PM
I really haven't seen any decline in his play despite being 35. He was as good as ever in the first half of last season.

His season ended in week 6 last year (Miami) and week 5 in 2009 (Detroit) - when it comes to staying on the field Smith makes Troy Polamalu look durable - missing 2/3 of the season would seem to be a decline from making it through a season

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 05:12 PM
His season ended in week 6 last year (Miami) and week 5 in 2009 (Detroit) - when it comes to staying on the field Smith makes Troy Polamalu look durable - missing 2/3 of the season would seem to be a decline from making it through a season

Yes we are all aware of that but I'm talking about his play on the field. Our defense in the first 6 games was probably on par with the Steelers D in the regular season of '08. The Falcons and Titan games were unbelievable defensively.

Atlanta Dan
08-26-2011, 05:38 PM
Yes we are all aware of that but I'm talking about his play on the field. Our defense in the first 6 games was probably on par with the Steelers D in the regular season of '08. The Falcons and Titan games were unbelievable defensively.

But the D did not exactly drop off a cliff without him in 2010 (unlike the collapse in 2007 after he got hurt) given the development of Hood - I am not saying he has no value but his price tag for what he brings anymore looks pretty rich

Steelersfan87
08-26-2011, 06:19 PM
You're missing the point. DanRooney was negating the suggestion that Aaron Smith is obsolete because his play has declined, which is far from the truth. He has never shown any signs of inferior play after bouncing back from an injury. When he's on the field, he's on the top of his game, period, which is at the top of the entire league at his position. So his play on the field is not in question. And I would also suggest that it's unfair to simply assume that he will suffer a season ending injury. There really is no loss whatsoever in keeping Smith, and the Steelers, unlike the Patriots, would never sacrifice their loyalty for draft picks for such a veteran and upstanding individual as Aaron Smith just because they're nearing the end of their careers and want to get what they can out of him before he has no value. Can you imagine the Steelers shitting on Casey Hampton the way the Patriots did Richard Seymour?

Also, his price tag as an elite starter at his position is perfectly fine.

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 06:37 PM
You're missing the point. DanRooney was negating the suggestion that Aaron Smith is obsolete because his play has declined, which is far from the truth. He has never shown any signs of inferior play after bouncing back from an injury. When he's on the field, he's on the top of his game, period, which is at the top of the entire league at his position. So his play on the field is not in question. And I would also suggest that it's unfair to simply assume that he will suffer a season ending injury. There really is no loss whatsoever in keeping Smith, and the Steelers, unlike the Patriots, would never sacrifice their loyalty for draft picks for such a veteran and upstanding individual as Aaron Smith just because they're nearing the end of their careers and want to get what they can out of him before he has no value. Can you imagine the Steelers shitting on Casey Hampton the way the Patriots did Richard Seymour?

Also, his price tag as an elite starter at his position is perfectly fine.

Exactly.

Seymour actually had an excellent season with the Raiders last year. It's hard to really decline as a 3-4 DE due to age because the position is more about technique and size rather than pure athleticism (unlike positions played by Farrior...*cough....Ward....:wink02:). Smith will be fine in his last season. There's no real reason to get rid of him, it's not like we're trying to sign anyone else right now. And Heyward will have an extra body to learn behind as a rookie. God I love Heyward:
http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=10690

pancake
08-26-2011, 06:58 PM
I would like to see the FO resign A Smith with a reduced salary ( maybe incentive contract) to play a reserve position on the team, like they did with the Bus...

Atlanta Dan
08-26-2011, 07:36 PM
You're missing the point. DanRooney was negating the suggestion that Aaron Smith is obsolete because his play has declined, which is far from the truth. He has never shown any signs of inferior play after bouncing back from an injury. When he's on the field, he's on the top of his game, period, which is at the top of the entire league at his position. So his play on the field is not in question. And I would also suggest that it's unfair to simply assume that he will suffer a season ending injury. There really is no loss whatsoever in keeping Smith, and the Steelers, unlike the Patriots, would never sacrifice their loyalty for draft picks for such a veteran and upstanding individual as Aaron Smith just because they're nearing the end of their careers and want to get what they can out of him before he has no value. Can you imagine the Steelers shitting on Casey Hampton the way the Patriots did Richard Seymour?

Also, his price tag as an elite starter at his position is perfectly fine.

We apparently are talking past each other - if I am paying for a Maserati I am overpaying if it runs like one 4 months of the year and is in the shop getting repaired for the other 8

As for loyalty, tell it to Jason Gildon, Levon Kirkland, Alan Faneca and Joey Porter - the Steelers usually are cold blooded about not paying when the value is no longer there, which is a big reason they have been so successful since 1992

Atlanta Dan
08-26-2011, 07:38 PM
I would like to see the FO resign A Smith with a reduced salary ( maybe incentive contract) to play a reserve position on the team, like they did with the Bus...

Starter or reserve - just make a big chunk of the $$ contingent on lasting the season :thumbsup:

DanRooney
08-26-2011, 07:43 PM
This is his last season for sure. Why does his salary have to be reduced now? I'm pretty sure we can't afford to sign Polamalu or Wallace regardless if Smith plays for free.

pancake
08-26-2011, 07:51 PM
This is his last season for sure. Why does his salary have to be reduced now? I'm pretty sure we can't afford to sign Polamalu or Wallace regardless if Smith plays for free.

We have no idea what the Salary cap will be next year, I think we will have a big jump.

Atlanta Dan
08-26-2011, 07:54 PM
This is his last season for sure. Why does his salary have to be reduced now? I'm pretty sure we can't afford to sign Polamalu or Wallace regardless if Smith plays for free.

Because it is the NFL and not the United Way? - Flozell Adams was told to take a haircut and his value (and durability) would appear to be no less than Smith's, given the relative strengths of the DL (Hampton/Keisel/Hood/Heyward having a great camp) and the OL (Pouncey and .... ummm ... Pouncey)

It is not as if the $$ can never be used unless they go to Smith

pancake
08-26-2011, 08:15 PM
This is his last season for sure. Why does his salary have to be reduced now? I'm pretty sure we can't afford to sign Polamalu or Wallace regardless if Smith plays for free.

We was able to bring in Essex to play reserve, I think if Smith was interested we could with him too...

ricardisimo
08-26-2011, 10:03 PM
All of you are discounting the very real possibility that Aaron Smith outplays his successors this year, and does so in dramatic fashion. I'm not sure how you can speak with any authority on a subject like this. He might play like he during our previous SB run.

Steelersfan87
08-26-2011, 10:43 PM
We apparently are talking past each other - if I am paying for a Maserati I am overpaying if it runs like one 4 months of the year and is in the shop getting repaired for the other 8

As for loyalty, tell it to Jason Gildon, Levon Kirkland, Alan Faneca and Joey Porter - the Steelers usually are cold blooded about not paying when the value is no longer there, which is a big reason they have been so successful since 1992

First of all, Jason Gildon and Levon Kirkland were salary cap casualties. Joey Porter was let go because he was due a $1M roster bonus in another tight cap year and had issues with the incoming regime. Alan Faneca was not under contract. He was allowed to walk the same year Porter was let go. He was offered a contract and didn't accept. He also wanted to be traded the season prior:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/05/steelers-2007-free-agency-timeline-of-alan-faneca-contract-talks/

Secondly, as the post below succinctly points out, it's unfair to just assume that Smith will be plagued with injuries this season. It's perfectly reasonable to believe that he can stay healthy for a full season. He was once considered an iron man only two seasons ago. He's also had a long time to heal since his last major injury and is ready to go tomorrow after dealing with a small issue with a swollen knee (which, by the way, Brett Keisel also dealt with. Maybe we should let him go too).

All of you are discounting the very real possibility that Aaron Smith outplays his successors this year, and does so in dramatic fashion. I'm not sure how you can speak with any authority on a subject like this. He might play like he during our previous SB run.

DanRooney
08-27-2011, 02:05 AM
AtlantaDan, we don't need to free up cap space. I'm pretty sure we're done with signing players over the offseason. So why would we let him go now? If he were to get cut (asked to retire), it would have happened months ago. He still plays at a high level when healthy and will be instrumental in the development of Heyward.

Atlanta Dan
08-27-2011, 05:02 AM
All of you are discounting the very real possibility that Aaron Smith outplays his successors this year, and does so in dramatic fashion. He might play like he during our previous SB run.

He might

But unless you go on the juice (see, e.g. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens) athletes' performance levels decline with age. And in this case the player has had season ending upper body injuries the past 2 years that ended his season in October

Past results do not guarantee future performance but they cannot be ignored

I'm not sure how you can speak with any authority on a subject like this.

I can't - nobody on this board can unless we have some NFL players, coaches, and front office officials lurking around here:drink:

steeltheone
08-27-2011, 08:15 AM
Bottom line is we went to the Super Bowl with a defense with better run numbers than any Smith was ever on.
Everybody wants to live in the past. This is a 35 year old making 6 mill plus with results not near that money.

DanRooney
08-27-2011, 09:48 AM
Bottom line is we went to the Super Bowl with a defense with better run numbers than any Smith was ever on.
Everybody wants to live in the past. This is a 35 year old making 6 mill plus with results not near that money.

Smith was starting when we shut down Turner and Chris Johnson...probably two of the better backs we faced last season.

Everyone keeps talking about how much he's costing the cap but WHY DO WE NEED TO CUT HIM AT THIS POINT OF THE OFFSEASON?! Do you want to sign Asante for one year with 2 weeks remaining going into the regular season? Or do you just want to Rooney's to buy a house in the Bahamas because they're cool and deserve it?

steeltheone
08-27-2011, 11:02 AM
Smith was starting when we shut down Turner and Chris Johnson...probably two of the better backs we faced last season.

Everyone keeps talking about how much he's costing the cap but WHY DO WE NEED TO CUT HIM AT THIS POINT OF THE OFFSEASON?! Do you want to sign Asante for one year with 2 weeks remaining going into the regular season? Or do you just want to Rooney's to buy a house in the Bahamas because they're cool and deserve it?

Hey im a realist..He is not getting cut now...And sure he helped the first 6 games of the season...But we did just fine or better the next 14 games.

Smith..Keisel, Hampton and Farrior are still good run stoppers...Just super slow...Good teams will now throw on 1st and 2nd down and if we get no pressure from the OLB's ..there normally is no pressure at all.

zsheik22
08-27-2011, 12:50 PM
any money we spend on smith now, will be recouped when it comes time to give ziggy hood his 2nd contract w/o the inflated stats or starts.

this is the steelers way. i dont understand how many die hard steelerfans refuse to see this very simple and time tried concept.

ziggy hood still hasnt proven to be better than a healthier aaron smith. if he had, smith would be gone, or on the bench with a paycut.

a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush. its not rocket science.



:applaudit:



People look at me like I'm dumb when I tell them that.


PS: Aaron Smith is a badass. Sucks that he will probably never be the same. It gets hard for someone to snatch a grown man who is 230lbs and can run a 4.4 up with 1 arm, especially when you're already tore your pecs. He's done more than earned his time, though. He will still be plenty good enough that it shouldnt hinder anything.

tony hipchest
08-27-2011, 01:10 PM
Hey im a realist..

Smith..Keisel, Hampton and Farrior are still good run stoppers...Just super slow....

well, if youre a realist, you can probably admit that is really relative. of course those guys arent going to be as quick as fast willie parker, mike wallace, ike taylor, polamalu or timmons. we have been blessed with som freakishly superb speed with our players.

however if you compare someone like farrior to his peers (other top middle linebackers in the league (lewis, urlacher, fletcher) he is just as fast.

he can still pretty much hang with the majority of RB's and TE's he is assigned to cover (young or old). he rarely over persues, and is seldom caught out of position.

it is important to note that sometimes the player gets beat, but sometimes the scheme is beat as well.

lots of times when james is beat, its usually because of absolute perfect execution of the offense.

i'll take that risk cause it rarely happens for an entire game.

those super slow guys have fielded a top 5 defense for years and 3 sb appearances.

im more of a results oriented guy. until its broke, dont try to fix it.

ricardisimo
08-27-2011, 01:44 PM
As I recall, Farrior's really only had one subpar year, right? Year before last, I think it was. Otherwise he's been pretty solid the whole while.

Atlanta Dan
08-27-2011, 02:09 PM
As I recall, Farrior's really only had one subpar year, right? Year before last, I think it was. Otherwise he's been pretty solid the whole while.

Yep - Farrior came back strong last season after an off 2009 when his poor coverage gave up killer gains in the 4th quarter in the Cincy road loss and the Sunday night loss in Baltimore - Steelers were concerned enough to bring back Foote but Farrior had a solid 2010

We shall see how he holds up if teams decide there is no point in trying to run on the Steelers and just throw every down like teams did in 2002 (that was a bad secondary (Washington/Scott/Flowers/Alexander - yikes:jawdrop:)

steeltheone
08-27-2011, 03:21 PM
he can still pretty much hang with the majority of RB's and TE's he is assigned to cover (young or old). he rarely over persues, and is seldom caught out of position.

Come on...You need to watch his coverage...It's horrible

Want1MoreSB
08-28-2011, 07:53 AM
I never said the players / coaches were idiots, don't put words in my mouth bro. I'm just saying I'm not confident that Smith will say healthy for the entire year. If he does, then I'll gladly say I was wrong. Hood might go down with a freak injury but come on man, the chances of a younger player like hood getting a season ending injury is much less.

No doubt Aaron is a great DE but he is injury-prone. It would be miracle to see him play at least 12 games during the season and postseason. We do need to develop a couple of good DEs though. I am not sold on Ziggy yet.