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View Full Version : Why isnt Redman Utilized in the Red Zone?


3rdandlong
08-28-2011, 02:22 AM
Many of my threads preach about how good Isaac Redman is, especially in the red zone. So, why os Tomlin so retarded not to put him in inside the 5 yd line. He obviously has more power than Mendenhall, and can punch it in when it is tight.

I just don't get Tomlin, and how h cant see how good Redman is. Especially when we need the tough yards.

bornaSteelersfan
08-28-2011, 02:51 AM
Maybe he DOES see it. He just doesn't want every other team to see it in an unimportant pre-season game.

pete74
08-28-2011, 06:16 AM
i wonder the same thing. everyone here seems to think mendy is the best rb but i dont see it. i would love to see redman get 200 touches this year

solardave
08-28-2011, 07:02 AM
:banging::banging:Many of my threads preach about how good Isaac Redman is, especially in the red zone. So, why os Tomlin so retarded not to put him in inside the 5 yd line. He obviously has more power than Mendenhall, and can punch it in when it is tight.

I just don't get Tomlin, and how h cant see how good Redman is. Especially when we need the tough yards.

You're right Tomlin's retarded and should be fired before the season even starts!!!:banging:
There are a few things we are not doing in the preseason so as not to tip our hand but one of them is not calling our coach a retard!!

3rdandlong
08-28-2011, 08:28 AM
[QUOTE=solardave;938796]:banging::banging:

You're right Tomlin's retarded and should be fired before the season even starts!!!:banging:
There are a few things we are not doing in the preseason so as not to tip our hand but one of them is not calling our coach a retard!![/QUOTe

How would playing Rwdman "tip our hand". Last year, when it was clear Redman was better in the red zone, Tomlin never put him in. It doesn't make any sense

55BaileyFan
08-28-2011, 09:00 AM
Tomlin and Arians aren't doing a lot of things that they should try. They are throwing so much that the backs and the line can't get into rhythm and when it comes to late in the season or playoffs we are going to need Redman in the red zone.

I also can't understand on the fourth and 1 last night at the 1 1/2 yard line, why they didn't go for it. You never know when you will need to convert one of those and better to practice that with your first team against a first team defense.Hell, every team we have played this offseason has went for it on fourth...to practice.

It seems like the bare minimum to me.

mikegrimey
08-28-2011, 09:05 AM
Mendenhall was a very good goal line runner last year. 13 rushing TDs in the regular season (only 2 of which were longer than 10 yards) and 4 more in the playoffs. I don't think it has so much to do with REdman but more to do with Mendenhall being so good down there taking him out wouldn't make sense.

solardave
08-28-2011, 11:31 AM
[QUOTE=solardave;938796]:banging::banging:

You're right Tomlin's retarded and should be fired before the season even starts!!!:banging:
There are a few things we are not doing in the preseason so as not to tip our hand but one of them is not calling our coach a retard!![/QUOTe

How would playing Rwdman "tip our hand". Last year, when it was clear Redman was better in the red zone, Tomlin never put him in. It doesn't make any sense

You totally missed my point about calling the coach a retard because he doesn't think like you or coach like you think he should. He doesn't think like me either but that's because he knows more than me.

I believe we will see Redman punching the ball in this year. He's already played more in the preseason than he has in the past. could just be that Tomlin wants him fresh with no injuries. He has the inside angle. WE DON'T.

solardave
08-28-2011, 11:34 AM
Mendenhall was a very good goal line runner last year. 13 rushing TDs in the regular season (only 2 of which were longer than 10 yards) and 4 more in the playoffs. I don't think it has so much to do with REdman but more to do with Mendenhall being so good down there taking him out wouldn't make sense.

Thank you. Yeah, what Mike said!!! Redman is a spot player. Look at Marion Barber. Tough runner beat all to hell and out of the game. Redman will play a pivotal role THIS YEAR. I'd bet on it.

Wallace17
08-28-2011, 12:59 PM
Hate Mendenhall! Go Issac!

PhantomJB93
08-28-2011, 01:17 PM
Ummm Mendenhall is one of the most reliable backs inside the 5 I have ever seen. I know some people here have a hard-on for Redman but seriously, unless he is absolutely gassed there is NO reason to take Mendy out in the red zone...

sharkweek
08-28-2011, 01:42 PM
Mendenhall was a very good goal line runner last year. 13 rushing TDs in the regular season (only 2 of which were longer than 10 yards) and 4 more in the playoffs. I don't think it has so much to do with REdman but more to do with Mendenhall being so good down there taking him out wouldn't make sense.

Ummm Mendenhall is one of the most reliable backs inside the 5 I have ever seen. I know some people here have a hard-on for Redman but seriously, unless he is absolutely gassed there is NO reason to take Mendy out in the red zone...


HOW DARE YOU GUYS BRING LOGIC AND REASON INTO THIS CONVERSATION!!!

:flap:

pete74
08-28-2011, 02:27 PM
mendenhall isnt horrible but 3.9ypc average definatly isnt a good thing for a starter

Sixburgher
08-28-2011, 02:35 PM
mendenhall isnt horrible but 3.9ypc average definatly isnt a good thing for a starter

That's the same average Bettis had for his career, behind generally far better offensive lines than the one Mendenhall runs behind. Guess he wasn't any good either?

DanRooney
08-28-2011, 02:36 PM
Love Redman. But Mendenhall is a well oiled machine. He's faster, has better vision and can catch out of the backfield better than Redman. Redman just seems to run with more determination being a power back. He's a great no. 2 option to have.

Third Rail
08-28-2011, 02:52 PM
I would agree that Redman deserves to get a bit more red zone action. As for whether he's better than Mendenhall or not, it's a bit too hard to judge because I think it's harder for defenses to anticipate a run or a pass when he's in the backfield. When Mendy is there, they usually anticipate a run.

But like I always say, when all else fails, blame the O-Line. Because it's usually they're fault.

BKAnthem
08-28-2011, 03:43 PM
with this O line doesn't matter who's back there...they got stood up on virtually every running play last night

mikegrimey
08-28-2011, 05:48 PM
HOW DARE YOU GUYS BRING LOGIC AND REASON INTO THIS CONVERSATION!!!

:flap:


Good point I should just disregard our improved goal to go running last year and subscribe to teh ideology sprouted by teh likes of "wallace boy"

"hate mendenhall go isaac"

Hihihihi

pete74
08-28-2011, 07:56 PM
That's the same average Bettis had for his career, behind generally far better offensive lines than the one Mendenhall runs behind. Guess he wasn't any good either?

so your trying to say 3.9 is good? do you follow football? no matter how you put it 3.9ypc is not good stats. bettis averaged 4.4 during his peak years then slowed down all those years he had under 1000 yards per season which brought him down. plus bettis was a bull. he was a different rb. regardless how you think 3.9 isnt something a rb is going to brag about no matter what you may think. as for mendy i didnt say he wasnt good, i said his average last year wasnt especially for the amount of carried he had. if you really think mendys 3.9ypc is great then you must consider charles 6.4ypc godlike

Fire Arians
08-28-2011, 07:59 PM
isaac is banged up right now. want to see him on IR before we even play the ravens?

Sixburgher
08-28-2011, 08:23 PM
so your trying to say 3.9 is good? do you follow football? no matter how you put it 3.9ypc is not good stats. bettis averaged 4.4 during his peak years then slowed down all those years he had under 1000 yards per season which brought him down. plus bettis was a bull. he was a different rb. regardless how you think 3.9 isnt something a rb is going to brag about no matter what you may think. as for mendy i didnt say he wasnt good, i said his average last year wasnt especially for the amount of carried he had. if you really think mendys 3.9ypc is great then you must consider charles 6.4ypc godlike

WTF are you talking about? Do YOU follow football? In 13 seasons, Bettis averaged over 4 yards a carry four times, and one of those was when he was still with the Rams. The other nine seasons he averaged under four yards a carry. And those were behind generally MUCH better lines than Mendenhall has had to run behind. I also never said 3.9 was "great", but behind the patchwork offensive line the Steelers had last year, it wasn't really that bad either. So besides needing to get your facts straight, you also need to learn reading comprehension.

Third Rail
08-28-2011, 08:50 PM
I'd personally like to see more of a three back system, to be honest. Dwyer has looked really good so far in the preseason and I'd like to see him get a share of touches as well. And I think if they switch out RBs more often, it will make our plays more difficult for opposing defenses to read.

pete74
08-29-2011, 04:47 AM
WTF are you talking about? Do YOU follow football? In 13 seasons, Bettis averaged over 4 yards a carry four times, and one of those was when he was still with the Rams. The other nine seasons he averaged under four yards a carry. And those were behind generally MUCH better lines than Mendenhall has had to run behind. I also never said 3.9 was "great", but behind the patchwork offensive line the Steelers had last year, it wasn't really that bad either. So besides needing to get your facts straight, you also need to learn reading comprehension.

i dont have the time to argue with someone who seems to think 3.9ypc is something a rb should thrive for. sorry, im done with this

Steelersfan87
08-30-2011, 02:48 AM
With the number of times Mendenhall was first contacted in the backfield last year, 3.9 YPC was a very impressive average. With improved line play, he should definitely average in the mid-4 range. I'm pretty sure the Steelers averaged more negative run plays than the vast majority of the league, and that was because the line couldn't sustain blocks or blew assignments and Mendenhall was hit in the backfield (many times making the first guy miss and then getting eaten up by a second guy). He very well may have led the league in broken tackles registered behind the line of scrimmage. ::toofunny:

Steelersfan87
09-08-2011, 02:32 AM
Redman has played that way most of the time since he arrived from Bowie as an unheralded, undrafted rookie in 2009. He has earned a larger role and said he was told he will get a series each half, do the short-yardage stuff everywhere but on the goal line (when Rashard Mendenhall stays in) and play a lot on third downs.

http://post-gazette.com/pg/11251/1173000-66-2.stm

SunshineMan21
09-08-2011, 09:07 AM
For what it's worth, here are some metrics on both guys' 2011 season:

Mendenhall had a DVOA of -2.8%
Redman had a DVOA of -1.3%

That suggests that (without accounting for offensive line performance) they were both very slightly below-average backs. Given Pittsburgh's poor offensive line play last season, however (3.87 adjusted line yards, and of the highest "stuffed" ranks in the league), I think the best conclusion is that both Mendenhall and Redman are decent backs on a per-play basis, but there's not a huge skill gap between the two of them.

Neither is a superstar, and I certainly wouldn't give Mendenhall a huge contract, but they're both competent players.

It couldn't hurt to give Redman a few more carries--if anything to keep Mendenhall fresh. There's nothing to suggest that Mendenhall is such a talented runner that he needs to touch the ball 25+ times in a game--he's an average back who's simply accrued a lot of opportunities.


And re: ypc--all ypc are not created equal. Bettis may have put up under 4 ypc, but he did it against stacked boxes on teams with luminaries like Kordell Stewart throwing the ball.

Steelersfan87
09-08-2011, 12:27 PM
For what it's worth, here are some metrics on both guys' 2011 season:

Mendenhall had a DVOA of -2.8%
Redman had a DVOA of -1.3%

That suggests that (without accounting for offensive line performance) they were both very slightly below-average backs. Given Pittsburgh's poor offensive line play last season, however (3.87 adjusted line yards, and of the highest "stuffed" ranks in the league), I think the best conclusion is that both Mendenhall and Redman are decent backs on a per-play basis, but there's not a huge skill gap between the two of them.

Neither is a superstar, and I certainly wouldn't give Mendenhall a huge contract, but they're both competent players.

It couldn't hurt to give Redman a few more carries--if anything to keep Mendenhall fresh. There's nothing to suggest that Mendenhall is such a talented runner that he needs to touch the ball 25+ times in a game--he's an average back who's simply accrued a lot of opportunities.


And re: ypc--all ypc are not created equal. Bettis may have put up under 4 ypc, but he did it against stacked boxes on teams with luminaries like Kordell Stewart throwing the ball.

Considering you choose to use Football Outsiders metrics to judge whether or not Mendenhall is an "average back", perhaps you should see what they actually have to say about him as a player:

Even with the annoying insistence on using Ike Redman as a short-yardage back for part of the season, Mendenhall got both the workload and rushing touchdowns that many of us expected before the season. (It's worth noting that no other Steelers running back scored a rushing touchdown this year.) On the other hand, he just wasn't as effective as his projections by either KUBIAK (which famously projected him for a 344-1550-10 line) or Twitter, which each had him at 4.5 yards per carry. You can chalk it up to blown assignments on the offensive line, if you'd like, as the Steelers were 27th in the league in stuffs. With no other back on the roster taking significant reps away, an improvement in the play of the offensive line could turn Mendenhall into the league's best back in 2011.

DanRooney
09-08-2011, 02:45 PM
Bettis carried the ball so many times inside the 5 that his YPA dwindled. If you carry the ball 10 times in your career on 3rd and goal from the 1 and have TDs every single time, you only still average1 YPA. It doesn't matter if you could run the ball all the way to the locker room or into the stands without getting touched. He also had a plethora of carries late in games where we had to run out the clock. Teams knew this and stacked the box...

Bettis' YPA doesn't tell his story.

effyou515
09-08-2011, 04:21 PM
would like to see Redman and Mendenhall in the same backfield some this season.

PhantomJB93
09-08-2011, 04:21 PM
Bettis carried the ball so many times inside the 5 that his YPA dwindled. If you carry the ball 10 times in your career on 3rd and goal from the 1 and have TDs every single time, you only still average1 YPA. It doesn't matter if you could run the ball all the way to the locker room or into the stands without getting touched. He also had a plethora of carries late in games where we had to run out the clock. Teams knew this and stacked the box...

Bettis' YPA doesn't tell his story.

I think the exact same case could be made for Mendenhall...I'd like to see the stats of Mendenhall excluding carries inside the 5/10 yard line, I'd be willing to bet his YPA would look a lot better...

DanRooney
09-08-2011, 07:42 PM
I think the exact same case could be made for Mendenhall...I'd like to see the stats of Mendenhall excluding carries inside the 5/10 yard line, I'd be willing to bet his YPA would look a lot better...

Mendenhall is playing behind a very average offensive line. Parker and Bettis had probably the best run blocking OL in the league at the time.

SunshineMan21
09-10-2011, 01:24 PM
Considering you choose to use Football Outsiders metrics to judge whether or not Mendenhall is an "average back", perhaps you should see what they actually have to say about him as a player:

I used their metrics--I don't necessarily agree with their analysis.

Especially since the passage you quoted came from the "Wisdom of Crowds" column--which is essentially a fantasy column. If you want the best fantasy back in the game, then yes, Mendy could be your guy. That's partially why they expressed concern about Redman's goal-line touches.

It's debatable how much of Mendy's average performance on advanced metrics is due to a terrible O-line, but I'm still going to stick with my viewpoint based on the information available: Mendy is a decent back who is arguably above-average but also eminently replaceable.

And, more significantly, I agree with the resultant conclusion--we shouldn't break the bank to keep him around.