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View Full Version : Ravens illegal (uncalled) chop blocks


tony hipchest
09-14-2011, 11:04 PM
from merril hog's recent twitter post-


After watching the end zone copy of the coaching tape the ravens O line had several illegal chop blocks on steeled D that were never called




now merril and jaws provide some of the best game tape analysis out there. anyone who says otherwise is ignorant. noboby breaks down the coaches film better than them, infact they are the only ones to have an entire weekly show dedicated to it.

for those who dont know, endzone copies of the coaching tape arent available to the public.

by all accounts, i have read that casey hampton had a damn good game, but i actually read one poster on this board who thought he sucked because he was on his ass all day. mark kaloby noted in his post game re-watch analysis, that casey was cut block on the ravens 1st 4 running plays.

for those who dont know, the ravens o-line coach is from the denver broncos esteemed (and now illegal) cut block scheme.

so i think i will trust my own eyes, and the analysis of professionals who actually have all the resources.

as for the internet banditos who may have very well been liquored up during their only television broadcast viewing of the game, i will take their breakdown worth a grain of salt.

DWplayer
09-16-2011, 07:40 AM
Legal or illegal......still sounds like excuse making to me.

Baltimore Ravens Fan
09-16-2011, 07:55 AM
Old News. This was debunked as bullshit a few days ago, Merril needs to refresh his memory on the rulebook a bit. No disrespect though.

DanRooney
09-16-2011, 04:31 PM
Pics here:
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/9/14/2426074/dirty-birds-ravens-illegally-chop-blocking

The rule does need to be changed. This play is more dirty than anything Hines or Harrison has ever done. If they change rules against us, they have to do the same for them.

Steelersfan87
09-16-2011, 05:26 PM
Pics here:
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/9/14/2426074/dirty-birds-ravens-illegally-chop-blocking

The rule does need to be changed. This play is more dirty than anything Hines or Harrison has ever done. If they change rules against us, they have to do the same for them.

This is the main issue now. I think we all can at least agree that the extent to which the chop block is made illegal should be revisited. I would imagine that pretty much everybody that had an opinion on this story two days ago did not know the full scop of the chop block rule and 1) initially took the word of those who initially reported it that they knew what the chop block rule was and 2) later looked up the rule themselves when people started to doubt and question the claims. It is obviously the case that every element of the league, from the players and coaches to the beat writers and fans, did not really understand what the rules were for the chop block. Now that it's a topic within the public sphere, however, I think that the rule should be examined and scrutinized. I've already reached my conclusion about the rule, and I believe that the rule as it applies to running plays needs to be changed. That a chop block can only occur by a blocker at least one position away from the initial blocker is ridiculous and arbitrary and violates the very spirit of the rule itself and of the league's recent player safety credo.

i82much
09-16-2011, 05:35 PM
Whether the rule should be changed and whether there is evidence of illegal blocking are two very different questions.

SteelCityMom
09-16-2011, 05:41 PM
I'll give it that it falls within the rules...but it's right on the borderline, and I don't agree with the rule at all. Knowing now that the new O-line coach for the Ravens was a big part of the chop block o-line scheme of Denver in the late 90's, early '00's makes more sense as to why it was happening a lot this past game.

And by the Titans recent comments on what they have seen on tape, every other team the Ravens play are going to be doing what they can to counter these attacks. And maybe a lot of teams will use similar tactics as well.

It's football, guys are going to get hurt regardless...but little inconsistencies in the rule book shouldn't be allowed to make it easier.

MACH1
09-16-2011, 05:47 PM
It's going to take a nasty injury to someone before godell even considers a rule change.

i82much
09-16-2011, 05:49 PM
It's going to take a nasty injury to someone before godell even considers a rule change.

Like this one?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09083/957938-100.stm

Honestly though I wouldn't mind seeing them change the rule. I can see why folks are concerned. I think the way the rule is written, the defender is expected to let the center go and handle the block from the guard which would allow the center to block the linebacker. I wouldn't bet on the NFL doing anything to help defenses, though.

Steelersfan87
09-16-2011, 06:07 PM
Whether the rule should be changed and whether there is evidence of illegal blocking are two very different questions.

Like this one?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09083/957938-100.stm

Didn't you say that you didn't come here to instigate? It seems as though that's what you're doing right now.

1) Obviously the rule itself and whether or not the rule is violated are two different discussions. Nobody was mistaking this.

2) Referencing the 'Hines Ward' rule doesn't further discussion in any kind of productive way. This discussion is not because the Ravens did it to the Steelers It's because what happened was dangerous, and many assumed that it was against the rules, and now that we know that that's not the case, we have an issue with the rule itself. I would have an issue if I saw Kemo doing this to Cody while Pouncey was standing him up. Well, I already have issues with some stupid shit Kemo does.

edit: Obviously this was written before you edited your post.

i82much
09-16-2011, 06:10 PM
Yeah sorry. My gut reaction was to cite the Hines Ward thing but then I wanted to tone it down a bit so added the rest.

tony hipchest
09-21-2011, 03:41 PM
Old News. This was debunked as bullshit a few days ago, Merril needs to refresh his memory on the rulebook a bit. No disrespect though.

Whether the rule should be changed and whether there is evidence of illegal blocking are two very different questions.from the "better late than never" files-

i asked merril hoge if he was able to substanciate what he initially posted and if he was correct about the "illegal" chop block rules.

his response-

"Yes but its not the reason they lost."

so there we have it. gotta take the word of a professional as opposed to a failed lawyer internet gossip site hack who supposedly "debunked" the observation with his own failed interpretation of the rules.

i doubt florio has ever even watched a complete game, let alone break down the film.

raven fans are full of shit and will believe anything (like ray wasnt involved in a double homicide andthat they have a SB quality team). no disrespect though.

ricardisimo
09-21-2011, 05:00 PM
It's going to take a nasty injury to someone before godell even considers a rule change.
You mean a nasty injury to someone not on the Steelers.

Danny136200
09-21-2011, 05:23 PM
Legal or illegal......still sounds like excuse making to me.
Its not an excuse, all Steelers players said straight up, that they got their asses handed to them, they are just pointing that out for the future.

i82much
09-21-2011, 06:53 PM
from the "better late than never" files-

i asked merril hoge if he was able to substanciate what he initially posted and if he was correct about the "illegal" chop block rules.

his response-

"Yes but its not the reason they lost."

so there we have it. gotta take the word of a professional as opposed to a failed lawyer internet gossip site hack who supposedly "debunked" the observation with his own failed interpretation of the rules.

i doubt florio has ever even watched a complete game, let alone break down the film.

raven fans are full of shit and will believe anything (like ray wasnt involved in a double homicide andthat they have a SB quality team). no disrespect though.

Yeah I dunno man. If you've got some pics or something, by all means let's see them. I am unconvinced.

I really don't think those rules are all that hard to interpret and Florio's reasoning jives with Harbaugh's comments. In the absence of further evidence from Hoge or further explanation of how the pics that were shown demonstrate an illegal block, I'm inclined to think you are wrong. No disrespect though.

steelerjim58
09-21-2011, 07:22 PM
The most confusing thing to me in all this is the explanation as to why those blocks are ok by the rule. According to Peirra { pretty sure that is spelled wrong}, if the second offensive lineman is coming from one position over the d-lineman can anticipate the block. Ok, so what should Hampton have done, he is busy fighting with another 300lb person. Regardless of where the second lineman is coming from, these blocks shouls be against the rules. I admit this is the first I have heard this explanation. I, like I believe most if not all ,just assumed that it was illegal no matter what the case.

But, I would say that this seems like a way to neutralize Ngata the next time they play.

BengalDestroyer
09-21-2011, 07:35 PM
Hoge does have the best game film/game film analysis of anyone (not sure why he's not a coach!!!) and it maybe old news but it still disgusts me. Ravens are so cheap... Can't wait for the re-match... Also it's not excuse making considering the victim (Big Snack) never complained, all the mentions of this occuring are from outside sources...

kirklandrules
09-21-2011, 07:48 PM
It's no reason for the loss and there was attention given to overcoming the chop block against Seattle (with much better success). Having to stoop to the technique is an indication of the respect the Raven's coaching staff has of the Steelers defenders. Basically, a chop block uses two blockers for a defender. The Ravens were happy using a 2-1 ratio, because in the past Steelers defensive linemen would overcome double teams and still move the line of scrimmage. The only way to win this battle was to use the chop.

I don't think the Steelers necessarily will use this cheap technique against the Ravens in the 2nd game. If the Steelers want to be effective against the Ravens, they should work on getting their damned line calls straight and not allow so many defenders to come through untouched. But that will only happen if they keep the starters on that line consistent.

WickedSteel
09-21-2011, 08:34 PM
Sadly, just like in hockey sometimes, the only way people back off is to give them a dose of their own medicine. If the refs aren't going to call it or the commissioner won't put an end to it, the players need to take matters into their own hands.

I would hate to see the Steelers stoop so low as to pull the same crap but I wouldn't shed a tear if they used two linemen to chop Ngata or Suggs' legs out from under them ans see how they like it. I would even be okay with Silverback or Woodely smacking Flacco in the face and breaking his nose. I'm pretty damn sure he wouldn't return to the game.

The Ravens and Jets have seemed to become the new Raiders, spouting off at the mouth all the time and pulling dirty plays here and there and getting away with it. Maybe it is time to give it back to them for a change.

Atlanta Dan
09-21-2011, 08:47 PM
It's going to take a nasty injury to someone before godell even considers a rule change.

Goodell is too busy worrying about defensive players faking injuries that might lower scoring to do anything about protecting defensive players from actual injuries and potentially lowering scoring

The NFL sent a memo Wednesday to all 32 teams warning of fines, suspensions and loss of draft picks if the league determines players faked injuries during a game.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7000274/nfl-threatens-fines-suspensions-faking-injuries

Which of course means during the Patriots game later this year one of the Pats will chop block Casey Hampton, who will take too long getting off the field, which will then result in a suspension of Hampton for delaying Brady's quest for the passing yardage record

i82much
11-06-2011, 11:52 PM
I will not comment on the result but I would like to note that both your coach and the announcers have confirmed that the blocks in the first game were legal and one or more of your players were misinformed. As were several posters here. So please don't tell me to trust Merril Hoge's tweets over what photographic evidence and a reading of the rules reveals.

tony hipchest
11-07-2011, 12:12 AM
its called taking the high road as professionals. we as fans arent held to such handcuffed standards and are free to call it for what it really is.

thanks for playing though.

i82much
11-07-2011, 12:18 AM
its called taking the high road as professionals. we as fans arent held to such handcuffed standards and are free to call it for what it really is.

thanks for playing though.

You are dead wrong and you know it.

tony hipchest
11-07-2011, 12:23 AM
You are dead wrong and you know it.

a win today doesnt make you any more right. how lame of you to bump this thread, thinking it does.

even in your team winning you come across as a sore loser. :tt02:

i82much
11-07-2011, 05:03 PM
Collinsworth explained it during the game, and noted that Tomlin has also agreed that Hampton was misinformed.

Agreed that Tomlin always takes the high road. Disagree with your assessment on the rule.