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View Full Version : Should Hines Ward still be in the starting rotation?


Rush58
09-15-2011, 11:29 AM
he should not be in the rotation as a primary read at this point. wallace, sanders, and brown are all better than ward at this stage. we are still throwing screen type play(s) to ward. it's ridiculous.

steelfury02
09-15-2011, 11:31 AM
hooks, digs, and slants - yes he should be a number 1 or 2 guy - screens and deep balls? Heck to the no.

SoCalFan
09-15-2011, 11:48 AM
Screens heck no??? Hes a great screen blocker!Lol...

blackandgoldsc
09-15-2011, 12:03 PM
I definitely think he should still be a starter. I think that Hines has some pretty good hands which is valuable and he gets respect from the other team which in turn helps the other WR's be able to execute as well. I think our WR's as a unit are great, this is one area I think we will be good for quite a while (assuming we retain Wallace).

tanda10506
09-15-2011, 12:06 PM
Of course he should, every pass play has a receiver running a hook or slant of some sorts. He finds the holes in coverage and is always there when called upon. When someone we have can do it better then yes, now no. And we will NEVER have a better blocking receiver.

Steeldude
09-15-2011, 12:12 PM
he should not be in the rotation as a primary read at this point. wallace, sanders, and brown are all better than ward at this stage. we are still throwing screen type play(s) to ward. it's ridiculous.

i wouldn't say sanders and brown are better at this point. they are quicker and faster, but no experience running routes or blocking. the bubble screen that arians employs all too often should be trashed. it doesn't matter which WR is on the receiving end. it's an overused play

gloydfan
09-15-2011, 12:35 PM
Mendy should be catching all the screens

steelfury02
09-15-2011, 12:38 PM
yea - that's what I mean regarding screens - I just wouldn't employee them as much as we do

I have the utmost respect for Hines and believe he should be on the field - just can't honestly sit here and say he is a #1 threat IMHO - teams don't fear him in that way

His role on the Steelers is perfect - don't want to hear about him being a seasoned remove from a 1000 yard season because yard stats mean squat when it comes to winning - how did we fair that season? He is the best blocking receiver in the nfl and in the top 10 possession category for me

steelfury02
09-15-2011, 12:39 PM
PLUS when you lead most Steelers receiving records you don't have to convince me of his value

steeltheone
09-15-2011, 12:44 PM
Just like in the Ravens game Brown and/0r Sanders will vanish...Hines is still productive!

steelfury02
09-15-2011, 01:01 PM
sorry - can't agree with you that Brown and Sanders vanish when playing the Ravens. Remember Browns huge 53 yard catch and Sanders was the only one to help us put up any points in this past game

DanRooney
09-15-2011, 01:51 PM
Absolutely not. Sanders offers everything that Hines Ward does but his much faster. Ward should be rotated in with Sanders...not vice versa. Brown should be the #2 opposite of Wallace (which he already is).

MACH1
09-15-2011, 02:10 PM
Absolutely not. Sanders offers everything that Hines Ward does but his much faster. Ward should be rotated in with Sanders...not vice versa. Brown should be the #2 opposite of Wallace (which he already is).

And thats why your not the coach.

truesteelerfan
09-15-2011, 02:10 PM
He should absolutley still be a starter! Our running game success depends in part to how well our WR block- he's still at this age the best blocking WR in the league- w/o him, Mendy will have fewer 20+ yard runs.

DanRooney
09-15-2011, 02:19 PM
And thats why your not the coach.

And that's why you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're." :sofunny:

Seriously, the whole "you're not the coach" thing is ****ing old. Bruce Arians is one of our coaches. The guy you trash all the time. If I wanted to be an ass and just knock your post I would just say "that's why you're not the coach" every time you bitch and whine about him.

Hines has trouble getting open. Most of his long gainers come when Ben buys an eon of time for him to find a soft spot in the zone. The others come from WR screens. Rarely ever do you see Ward get open in man quickly.

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-15-2011, 09:06 PM
And that's why you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're." :sofunny:

The first sign I look for in internet posts to determine if that person has anything useful to contribute to the conversation, is whether or not they have to resort to grammar-nitpicking.

Usually, when they have to comment on grammar, it is a good indicator that something really dumb is about to follow....

Seriously, the whole "you're not the coach" thing is ****ing old.

^^^^ This coming from a guy that just had to resort to being the grammar police?

Hines has trouble getting open.

He was able to get open for 5 catches for 67 yards, with one being a long 31 yarder Sunday. No other WR in the game today is better at finding the holes and seams in a zone defense. You do understand the term and concept of a "possession receiver", do you not?

Most of his long gainers come when Ben buys an eon of time for him to find a soft spot in the zone. The others come from WR screens. Rarely ever do you see Ward get open in man quickly.

Again, you do understand the concept of a "possession receiver", do you not?

Fire Arians
09-15-2011, 09:09 PM
short answer: yes

StainlessStill
09-15-2011, 09:11 PM
hooks, digs, and slants - yes he should be a number 1 or 2 guy - screens and deep balls? Heck to the no.

No on deep balls? Didn't Ward have like, the longest pass play against the Ravens D last Sunday? Go for about 40 yards? Hmmm

JustinM
09-15-2011, 09:14 PM
Hines Ward may be a little bit slow, but his physicalness makes up for it

ETL
09-15-2011, 10:48 PM
Hines Ward still has value - more so than Brown or Sanders because he has better hands than both of them.

After Ward, Sanders has better hands than Brown. So I would play Sanders above Brown.

I know all of you are ga-ga over Brown but he still has some learning to go.

Moose
09-15-2011, 10:53 PM
Yes, he should be starting. Experience ! If he can touch the ball he usually catches the ball. Play the other's when we have a lead and they can get some good game time play.Just my opinion

davidtrout
09-15-2011, 11:07 PM
Hines has trouble getting open.

Since when? I honestly don't believe you even watch the Steelers play football. Nothing you post indicates anything more than you just like to argue and slurp Ohio State. You claim to be a Steeler fan, as long as we don't include the players (except the former buckeyes, of course), the coaching staff, or the front office. Everyone else is okay.

Hines is still the best receiver we have. Not every pass play is going to be 50+yds and a TD. Hines is a chain mover and a better redzone threat than anyone else we have, including Heath. The young guys are great fun to watch and should be a dangerous group in the near future, but they still have a lot to learn. Maybe later this season that will change but for now, Hines Ward is still our guy.

Steeldude
09-15-2011, 11:09 PM
i would let it play out a few more games. if anything the could start him, but considerably reduce his playing time.

DanRooney
09-15-2011, 11:16 PM
Since when? I honestly don't believe you even watch the Steelers play football. Nothing you post indicates anything more than you just like to argue and slurp Ohio State. You claim to be a Steeler fan, as long as we don't include the players (except the former buckeyes, of course), the coaching staff, or the front office. Everyone else is okay.

Hines is still the best receiver we have. Not every pass play is going to be 50+yds and a TD. Hines is a chain mover and a better redzone threat than anyone else we have, including Heath. The young guys are great fun to watch and should be a dangerous group in the near future, but they still have a lot to learn. Maybe later this season that will change but for now, Hines Ward is still our guy.

I honestly don't think you watch the games if you think Hines can get open quickly. It's not only blatantly obvious watching every game last year, but it's common sense seeing how slow he is. And by getting open, I don't mean him catching a WR screen.

Mike Wallace is the best receiver we have. It isn't even close.

And Sanders could be every bit the possession/blocking receiver Hines is. He could just do everything a lot faster. He's really not going to get the reps he needs to when Ben is running for his life when we go 5 wide.

MACH1
09-15-2011, 11:23 PM
I honestly don't think you watch the games if you think Hines can get open quickly.

Mike Wallace is the best receiver we have. It isn't even close

And Sanders could be every bit the possession/blocking receiver Hines is. He could just do everything a lot faster.

Tell us how is Wallace over the middle, where Hines excels.

Wallace is good but not that good. One trick pony ring a bell.

Grammar check please. :flipoff:

DanRooney
09-15-2011, 11:32 PM
Tell us how is Wallace over the middle, where Hines excels.

Wallace is good but not that good. One trick pony ring a bell.

Grammar check please. :flipoff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPTFusnXDso

:hatsoff:

MACH1
09-16-2011, 12:27 AM
I could post ALL of Hines's but I don't want to melt down the server.

Speed doesn't make a guy smarter or better.

Wallace108
09-16-2011, 12:42 AM
Wallace is good but not that good. One trick pony ring a bell.
Wait, what?

Oh, the OTHER Wallace. :chuckle:
-----------------------------------------

It's 4th and 6 with less than 2 minutes left in the game. You need a first down. Who are you looking for ... Wallace, Sanders, Brown, or Ward?

Potential is one thing. Proven ability is another. I'm not ready to kick Hines to the curb just yet.

DanRooney
09-16-2011, 12:58 AM
I could post ALL of Hines's but I don't want to melt down the server.

Speed doesn't make a guy smarter or better.

I'm well aware of what Hines can do. Obviously you're not aware of how good a receiver Wallace is because running deep routes isn't all he can do.

Speaking of the one trick pony, would you consider Hines a one trick pony because all he can do is catch passes over the middle? Or is blocking part of the equation too? :sofunny:

It is beyond hilarious that people on here think that Hines is still the best receiver on the team let alone the #1. Four years ago, yeah.

davidtrout
09-16-2011, 02:46 AM
I honestly don't think you watch the games if you think Hines can get open quickly. It's not only blatantly obvious watching every game last year, but it's common sense seeing how slow he is. And by getting open, I don't mean him catching a WR screen.

Mike Wallace is the best receiver we have. It isn't even close.

And Sanders could be every bit the possession/blocking receiver Hines is. He could just do everything a lot faster. He's really not going to get the reps he needs to when Ben is running for his life when we go 5 wide.

I'm not going to make a case for Hines because his career speaks for itself and again you prove that you have no actual knowledge of the game. Unlike you, I don't have to demean other players to make a case for any particular player's effectiveness or value because I can do so with real observations and assessment. I won't waste my time with you, as I've seen others on here do because i don't care enough to try. Even if you are a Steeler fan and not just a troll, which I doubt, you are clearly more concerned with being right than with the good of the team. That not only makes you the worst kind of fan, it makes you dumb.

DanRooney
09-16-2011, 03:09 AM
I'm not going to make a case for Hines because his career speaks for itself and again you prove that you have no actual knowledge of the game. Unlike you, I don't have to demean other players to make a case for any particular player's effectiveness or value because I can do so with real observations and assessment. I won't waste my time with you, as I've seen others on here do because i don't care enough to try. Even if you are a Steeler fan and not just a troll, which I doubt, you are clearly more concerned with being right than with the good of the team. That not only makes you the worst kind of fan, it makes you dumb.

What's dumb is your inability to read and comprehend anything I'm saying. You are talking about his career and past accolades. I am talking about Friday September 16, 2011 and beyond. Of course was a great WR. There's an 90 percent chance he makes the HOF. We can find videos of how great he was particularly from 2003-2007.

You don't seem to grasp when a player has reached his full potential then sail way past it. We have 2 young wideouts now who have the ability to be great receivers. It sucks that we have to choose between Sanders and Brown in who gets gets to stay on the field. You don't let a talent like Sanders rot on the bench.

MasterOfPuppets
09-16-2011, 03:35 AM
damn...48 career receptions between the 2 of em , and all the sudden they are head and shoulders above the guy with 959 :popcorn:

http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Ben-Roethlisberger-Locker-Room---914/830edbc1-9c0a-4ca3-8719-b8b92852d150
watch the video... at the 2:30 mark ben talks about how him and brown needs to get on the same page with the routes and timing.
maybe...just maybe... there's a reason why the youngsters are still sitting behind ward..:noidea:

pete74
09-16-2011, 05:38 AM
If im the coach im starting Wallace, Brown and Sanders. Ward was our top guy for years but his time should be over. Its time to bring in the younger, faster and more big play capable guys. Wallace and Brown deep and Sanders in the slot. Its time to move on without Ward or Smith for that matter.

davidtrout
09-16-2011, 01:57 PM
If im the coach im starting Wallace, Brown and Sanders. Ward was our top guy for years but his time should be over. Its time to bring in the younger, faster and more big play capable guys. Wallace and Brown deep and Sanders in the slot. Its time to move on without Ward or Smith for that matter.

Things are headed that way. Of course they are, it's the nature of the game. What makes Hines better than the rest of them at this point is what he does without the ball. Wallace was targeted 11 times on Sunday (the most), that's 18% of the offensive plays. It's the other 82% of the time that he is not yet in Hines' league and most likely never will be because very few have ever been. The point is, that's is the part of the game that Wallace, Sanders, and Brown still need to develop. They are on pace and I have no reason to doubt they will become very good football players, but for now, Hines is better.

I'm not concerned with who starts. That's pretty irrelevant. Who do you trust on those crucial downs?

harrison'samonster
09-16-2011, 07:53 PM
on a crucial down, I would count on Ward above all of our other receivers. Wallace is great, and not just a one trick pony. Brown and Sanders are both very good and have great potential to be even better. But there's something about Ward and I would never count him out. I'd say rotate the other receivers, even if you don't want to line him up as the #1 or #2 receiver, Ward needs to be on the field for us to win.

JustinM
09-16-2011, 09:32 PM
without Ward we have no smiles

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-16-2011, 09:55 PM
Ward is the only possession receiver we have, and a damn good one at that. You don't have to be able to run a 4.0 40 to be an effective receiver. When we are down and trying to need to mvoe the chains, Ward is our man-- I will never forget the 9 or 10 consecutive passes he caught against Jacksonville in the 2007 playoffs, or the clutch plays he made in this last playoff run.

Wallace still IS a one-trick pony at this point in his career. He is a great burner, able to stretch the field and back defenses up with his raw speed, but when he starts trying to run short-to-intermediate routes or anything but a treak up the sidelines, we end up with interceptions and dropped balls. The last SB is proof enough of that-- wrong routes ran, sloppy curl routes, etc.

No other receiver blocks like Ward does-- he is like having another Tight End on the far side and helps bolster our run game considerably.

The main reason why we have not run the no-huddle offense more, is because neither Wallace, Sanders, nor Brown knows our offense's playbook well enough to adapt and get the calls on the field.

You cannot have a WR corps made up of nothing but speedy deep threats-- you need somebody who can work the underneath stuff and rake in those hard-to-catch passes to keep chains moving. Ward has the best hands on the team, by far, with Miller a close second.

Anyone who is questioning whether or not Ward should be on the field, obviously knows squat and needs to get a DVR or something for the next Steelers game.

dreegking
09-19-2011, 12:03 AM
What's dumb is your inability to read and comprehend anything I'm saying. You are talking about his career and past accolades. I am talking about Friday September 16, 2011 and beyond. Of course was a great WR. There's an 90 percent chance he makes the HOF. We can find videos of how great he was particularly from 2003-2007.

You don't seem to grasp when a player has reached his full potential then sail way past it. We have 2 young wideouts now who have the ability to be great receivers. It sucks that we have to choose between Sanders and Brown in who gets gets to stay on the field. You don't let a talent like Sanders rot on the bench.

This is crazy. Did YOU WATCH the game? Hines was making plays all over the field - important and critical plays. Pay attention.

stb_steeler
09-19-2011, 12:33 AM
Maybe if the Steelers handed out their offense playbook to some of you, maybe you'll get it.......:wink02:

DanRooney
09-19-2011, 12:39 AM
This is crazy. Did YOU WATCH the game? Hines was making plays all over the field - important and critical plays. Pay attention.

First of all I posted that before today's game.

And to comment on your post, so was Sanders and so was Brown. They even had more yards than Hines today and were both in rotation with eachother for a majority of the game.

I'm not saying Ward is a bad receiver. He's a good player to have. But I'm with pete, I would roll with Wallace, Sanders and Brown as the top 3 receivers. Sanders looks every bit of the possession receiver Ward is plus he has the speed to burn. He can block also.

DanRooney
09-19-2011, 12:42 AM
Wallace still IS a one-trick pony at this point in his career. He is a great burner, able to stretch the field and back defenses up with his raw speed, but when he starts trying to run short-to-intermediate routes or anything but a treak up the sidelines, we end up with interceptions and dropped balls. The last SB is proof enough of that-- wrong routes ran, sloppy curl routes, etc.



http://nukezilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/facepalm.jpg

...Yeah because Mike Wallace only ran go routes today.

Oh wait he did that once on the PI. The rest of his catches were from a WR screen, a couple of slants, a hook, a quick out, and a fade for a TD. I believe this is the 5th straight 100 yard receiving game for Wallace. Damn him and his one-tricks. Lets get rid of him so Hines Ward and Jerricho Cotchery can be 1 and 2.

tony hipchest
09-19-2011, 12:45 AM
owners own, coaches coach, players play, and managers manage.

fans pretend that they can do all 4.

stb_steeler
09-19-2011, 12:49 AM
^ Thats why they invented fantasy football Tony.....lol

tanda10506
09-19-2011, 01:13 AM
Hines played great today. Had a pretty impressive catch and some good blocks as always, that's why he will always be a starter if he is on the team. Must say though, Wallace cut the defense up and Sanders did pretty well too.

DanRooney
09-19-2011, 01:26 AM
I really didn't see any impressive blocks from Hines today. Which plays? I know Foster had one on the Redman TD.

Steelersfan87
09-19-2011, 02:57 AM
There was a play that resulted in a 9 yard run by Mendenhall, though I can't tell you when it happened from memory. I believe he blocked Thomas on the play. There was one other play where I recall noting a quality block from Ward, but obviously that's not very specific, and thus not very helpful.

Bayz101
09-19-2011, 03:21 AM
I absolutely do think Ward should remain in the mix. He's the overall best receiver we have, and he's still making big plays. Wallace is on pace for a huge year. 100+ yards each game this season I believe. Then we have a promising deep threat in Brown, and yet another burner being Sanders. As far as i'm concerned, you could put Larry Fitzgerald on the team, and Ward is STILL the best player. But that's just me. Hines is a smart, dynamic receiver, and with his experience in the NFL, he'll always make the best decisions. The young guys will only benefit from watching Hines do his thing. Go Steelers!

Hines Ward
Mike Wallace
Antonio Brown
Emmanuel Sanders

^ My opinion.

tony hipchest
09-19-2011, 02:31 PM
I really didn't see any impressive blocks from Hines today. Which plays? I know Foster had one on the Redman TD.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/09/breaking-down-the-steelers-20-yard-touchdown-run-by-isaac-redman/

hines ward assists taking 2 defender out of the play from a stand still position at the end of the line.

no defender should get blowed up at the line like that by any 200 lb wr. it wasnt apancake but hines definitely had him on roller skates.

his ass will get clowned in team meetings with a pat on the back to not feel too bad because slow, old man hines is the best at that and does it to everyone.

DanRooney
09-19-2011, 04:12 PM
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/09/breaking-down-the-steelers-20-yard-touchdown-run-by-isaac-redman/

hines ward assists taking 2 defender out of the play from a stand still position at the end of the line.

no defender should get blowed up at the line like that by any 200 lb wr. it wasnt apancake but hines definitely had him on roller skates.

his ass will get clowned in team meetings with a pat on the back to not feel too bad because slow, old man hines is the best at that and does it to everyone.

That defender is 200 lb. Earl Thomas.

Fire Arians
09-19-2011, 04:38 PM
That defender is 200 lb. Earl Thomas.

a wr taking the safety out of the play is usually a tall task, especially when it's earl thomas who draws comparisons to a young troy polamalu

pete74
09-19-2011, 04:42 PM
I absolutely do think Ward should remain in the mix. He's the overall best receiver we have, and he's still making big plays. Wallace is on pace for a huge year. 100+ yards each game this season I believe. Then we have a promising deep threat in Brown, and yet another burner being Sanders. As far as i'm concerned, you could put Larry Fitzgerald on the team, and Ward is STILL the best player. But that's just me. Hines is a smart, dynamic receiver, and with his experience in the NFL, he'll always make the best decisions. The young guys will only benefit from watching Hines do his thing. Go Steelers!

Hines Ward
Mike Wallace
Antonio Brown
Emmanuel Sanders

^ My opinion.

Fitzgerald? are you serious? i guess most fans always think they have the best players but there is no way ward is better then fitzgerald

tony hipchest
09-19-2011, 05:56 PM
That defender is 200 lb. Earl Thomas.no shit, sherlock. are you sure its not eric berry? :chuckle:

a much younger, stronger, faster defender (who blew up the play and made the goaline stand vs 220+ lb mendenhall on the first drive) getting completely owned by lil' old, washed up, hines ward. :rolleyes:

Bayz101
09-19-2011, 06:23 PM
Fitzgerald? are you serious? i guess most fans always think they have the best players but there is no way ward is better then fitzgerald

Hell no i'm not serious, LOL.

MACH1
09-19-2011, 06:34 PM
no shit, sherlock. are you sure its not eric berry? :chuckle:

a much younger, stronger, faster defender (who blew up the play and made the goaline stand vs 220+ lb mendenhall on the first drive) getting completely owned by lil' old, washed up, hines ward. :rolleyes:

It's amazing how he made that block with his walker with the tennis ball feet.

SteelRunner91
09-19-2011, 06:51 PM
Every single argument that DanRooney ever came up makes absolutely no sense and then is backed up by nonsense. Hines Ward always makes the tough catch, always provides the key block, always has a positive smile on his face, and always gets the job done. I will never believe Wallace is better than Hines ever since he DROPPED the key 4th down pass in the Super Bowl. Hines would have caught that. Holmes would have caught that while being high.

Wallace is beast but not trusted. The One Trick Pony is getting better, but does not pride himself on making the tough catches. He is faster, but speed doesn't mean everything.

pete74
09-19-2011, 06:54 PM
Every single argument that DanRooney ever came up makes absolutely no sense and then is backed up by nonsense. Hines Ward always makes the tough catch, always provides the key block, always has a positive smile on his face, and always gets the job done. I will never believe Wallace is better than Hines ever since he DROPPED the key 4th down pass in the Super Bowl. Hines would have caught that. Holmes would have caught that while being high.

Wallace is beast but not trusted. The One Trick Pony is getting better, but does not pride himself on making the tough catches. He is faster, but speed doesn't mean everything.

one trick pony or not if he gets us 100 yards a game all the time he is helping his team more then 90% of WR's in the nfl

rich4eagle
09-19-2011, 07:27 PM
based on what I saw last sunday.................Hines Ward is one of the best players on the Steelers

harrison'samonster
09-19-2011, 07:28 PM
I completely agree, we need him on the field in order to beat the tough teams

DanRooney
09-19-2011, 07:38 PM
no shit, sherlock. are you sure its not eric berry? :chuckle:

a much younger, stronger, faster defender (who blew up the play and made the goaline stand vs 220+ lb mendenhall on the first drive) getting completely owned by lil' old, washed up, hines ward. :rolleyes:

I don't know about stronger...

And actually I wouldn't knock Thomas. He's the only Seahawk who had a good game on defense imo. He blew up Mendenhall in the backfield.

DanRooney
09-19-2011, 07:42 PM
one trick pony or not if he gets us 100 yards a game all the time he is helping his team more then 90% of WR's in the nfl

SteelRunner doesn't know that Mike Tomlin was calling him a 'one-trick pony' a YEAR ago as a motivator to get better and not let his success go to his head. :chuckle:

1250 yards and 12 TDs in his first year starting and 100 yards in each of his games this season. Wow you'd think teams could figure out how to stop this one-trick.

MACH1
09-19-2011, 08:01 PM
SteelRunner doesn't know that Mike Tomlin was calling him a 'one-trick pony' a YEAR ago as a motivator to get better and not let his success go to his head. :chuckle:

1250 yards and 12 TDs in his first year starting and 100 yards in each of his games this season. Wow you'd think teams could figure out how to stop this one-trick.

Wallace isn't out there by himself they have to worry about more than one guy. Who's gonna get doubled and who's not and so on. And how many db's have they're head on a pivot watching out for Hines.

SunshineMan21
09-19-2011, 09:17 PM
At this point, Wallace is by far the best player on the team. He had the best DVOA of any receiver in the game last year.

But that doesn't mean Ward doesn't still have a role to play--he still has a high catch percentage and he's a devastating blocker. I don't see how this is a hard question.

DanRooney
09-19-2011, 09:40 PM
Wallace isn't out there by himself they have to worry about more than one guy. Who's gonna get doubled and who's not and so on. And how many db's have they're head on a pivot watching out for Hines.

Right the only reason why Wallace is so dominant is because Hines Ward demands double coverage. :coffee:

Wallace is the best receiver on the team hands down. He's one of the best receivers in the LEAGUE, period.

ricardisimo
09-19-2011, 10:46 PM
Right the only reason why Wallace is so dominant is because Hines Ward demands double coverage. :coffee:

Wallace is the best receiver on the team hands down. He's one of the best receivers in the LEAGUE, period.
Did anyone say that Wallace is no good? I believe the question is whether or not Ward is any good, and amazingly this crowd is split on the issue.

tony hipchest
09-19-2011, 10:51 PM
http://burgh.us/7vv

PITTSBURGH - Hines Ward admits that his "day is coming." He knows that in time he will lose his starting job with the Steelers. He just hopes it doesn't happen any time soon -- as in this year.

Gone are the days when Ward runs routs as Ben Roethlisberger's No. 1 target.

Ward may still be the self-proclaimed "leader of the wideouts" when it comes to know-how and leadership. But the main man on the receiving corps is now Mike Wallace, the third-year speedster who continues to put up remarkable numbers.

Then there are the two fleet-footed second-year pros, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders. Next year, one of them will surely nudge Ward closer to retirement. One of them will join Wallace in the starting lineup when the 2012 season begins. Both offer so much talent.

But for now, Ward remains a viable option. He may be 35 but he still has much to contribute. Granted, he's not as fast as he was in his prime although he was never a burner to begin with. He may have a harder time getting open than he once did, especially against big, physical cornerbacks. No longer does the opposition's best cover corner guard him.

But Ward will still have his moments.

So far in two games, Roethlisberger has targeted Wallace 20 times. Ward and Brown were the intended receiver 15 times each. Wallace leads the team with 16 catches. Ward is second with nine. Brown is third with six.

And none of the young wide receivers block as well as Ward. It's not even close.


In Sunday's 24-0 win over the Seahawks, Wallace (126), Brown (67) and Sanders (44) each had more receiving yards than Ward (33). But it was Ward who was open on a trick play in the first quarter when Sanders threw to him for 15 yards. Then in the third quarter, Ward made a nifty catch along the sideline, keeping both feet inbounds for a 15-yard gain.

"Twinkle toes," Ward, a "Dancing with the Stars" champion, said when describing that catch.

Roethlisberger called Ward's catch a "phenomenal play on his part."

In 2009, Ward signed a four-year contract extension that will allow him to finish his career with the Steelers. He's locked in through the 2013 season.

The owner of 14 different Steelers' receiving records, Ward ranks No. 8 on the NFL's all-time receptions list with 963. He needs just 37 more to become just the eighth receiver in league history to reach 1,000.

He's on pace this year to catch 72.

Ward doesn't have many more years to play. But that doesn't mean he's fading fast. He still can make plays.

ricardisimo
09-19-2011, 11:08 PM
I like glancing at the all-time receiving yards lists (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_career.htm). If he keeps busy for the next two years, he could possibly crack the top 10. Problem is Tony Gonzalez is probably going to beat him to it and keep him out of it. I can see him bumping off Torry Holt, but Ellard and Cris Carter are probably out of his range.

tony hipchest
09-19-2011, 11:28 PM
and yet another example-


Hines Ward may no longer be a No. 1 receiver, but two plays Sunday showed his value to the Steelers.

On the team's first touchdown drive, he locked up Seattle safety Earl Thomas and drove him to the side. That opened a gaping hole and resulted in a 9-yard run by Rashard Mendenhall.



Read more: Steelers coach pleased with play of Gilbert - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_757536.html#ixzz1YSmc5000

hines ward makes these types of plays in every game. i think hes so taken for granted by fans more interested with fantasy stats that it often goes over looked.

tony hipchest
09-19-2011, 11:36 PM
I like glancing at the all-time receiving yards lists (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_career.htm). If he keeps busy for the next two years, he could possibly crack the top 10. Problem is Tony Gonzalez is probably going to beat him to it and keep him out of it. I can see him bumping off Torry Holt, but Ellard and Cris Carter are probably out of his range.when all is said and done, i think reggie wayne, andrae johnson, and larry fitzgerald pass him up as well, but other than that, he looks solid.

he should remain top 15 for quite a while, possibly solidifying a spot in canton.

ricardisimo
09-19-2011, 11:53 PM
when all is said and done, i think reggie wayne, andrae johnson, and larry fitzgerald pass him up as well, but other than that, he looks solid.

he should remain top 15 for quite a while, possibly solidifying a spot in canton.
Johnson for sure, but Wayne's older than I thought, and he might not ever get another QB. :noidea: Fitzgerald doesn't even need a QB, from the looks of it, so yeah. If Brady and Muchostinko ever get on the same page, possibly...

But other than Johnson and Fitz these are all what ifs and maybes. So what if Ward plays really well for not one or two but three years? :thumbsup:

tony hipchest
09-20-2011, 12:22 AM
Johnson for sure, but Wayne's older than I thought, and he might not ever get another QB. :noidea: Fitzgerald doesn't even need a QB, from the looks of it, so yeah. If Brady and Muchostinko ever get on the same page, possibly...

But other than Johnson and Fitz these are all what ifs and maybes. So what if Ward plays really well for not one or two but three years? :thumbsup:i can easilly see ward playing out the final 2 seasons remaining on his contract and returning for a 3rs (and possibly a 4th) at a reduced pay and workload. another 150 rec/2200 yds/ and 12-15 tds really seem attainable.

i think he will achieve every personal goal he has set for himself, but more than that, i think he wants to prove all the doubters wrong and show his longevity. if he can stay as healthy as he has the past 4 years, i dont see why 3 more after this one is out of the question (of course with less pay and play).

it wouldnt be unprescedented. the steelers like having a veteran like joey galloway or terrence mathis on their roster.

steeltheone
09-20-2011, 05:08 PM
Ward is more important and more productive than any of the 33 plus year olds..

Brett Cottrell
09-21-2011, 12:18 PM
Yeah, he should be in the starting lineup. He's like another quarterback on the field. Having said that, some of the young guys may get in on some of his plays.

wera176
09-21-2011, 05:51 PM
hines ward makes these types of plays in every game. i think hes so taken for granted by fans more interested with fantasy stats that it often goes over looked.

Absolutely. I enjoy fantasy football somewhat myself, but it has clouded folks judgment somewhat on what makes a good footballer. Sure big numbers are great (I love what Wallace has brought to this offense) but Ward makes the big 3rd down catch that keeps drives going, makes great blocks as mentioned, and gets in the defender's heads. That's not the stuff that wins fantasy football, but it is the stuff that wins football games....

davidtrout
09-21-2011, 06:39 PM
Hines does many things that win football games. Contrary to what some seem to believe, that is the reason Brown and Sanders have yet to beat him out for the starting position. There is more to the position than just running fast and catching the ball when it's thrown to you. A whole lot more.

tony hipchest
09-21-2011, 08:45 PM
Hines does many things that win football games. Contrary to what some seem to believe, that is the reason Brown and Sanders have yet to beat him out for the starting position. There is more to the position than just running fast and catching the ball when it's thrown to you. A whole lot more.

sterling sharpe echoed as much tonight on total access when he said mike wallace was the 3rd year receiver most likely to have the break out year, thrusting him into superstardom. he attributed his current success to the veteran leadership and mentorship of ward, noting how none of the other 3rd year wr's have that and cited how important it was to his own shortened career. he then intimated that there is much more to just running fast and catching the ball.

but i guess we all should just ignore someone who has actually been there and done that, because some internet jockey on SF (who most likely couldnt even label a route tree) says theyre wrong. :applaudit:

davidtrout
09-21-2011, 10:37 PM
sterling sharpe echoed as much tonight on total access when he said mike wallace was the 3rd year receiver most likely to have the break out year, thrusting him into superstardom. he attributed his current success to the veteran leadership and mentorship of ward, noting how none of the other 3rd year wr's have that and cited how important it was to his own shortened career. he then intimated that there is much more to just running fast and catching the ball.

but i guess we all should just ignore someone who has actually been there and done that, because some internet jockey on SF (who most likely couldnt even label a route tree) says theyre wrong. :applaudit:

For Hines it was Courtney Hawkins. Hawk was a Steeler for Ward's first three seasons and while he may not have been an all-pro WR, he was a consumate professional and crucial to Hines' development coming into the NFL. Maybe Hines would have gone on to have the HOF career that we've witnessed anyway, maybe not but it sure didn't hurt. In looking up Hawkins' to make sure I had the years correct, I found out that he is now Head Football Coach and Athletic Director at the high school he attended in Flint MI. Good for Hawk.

tony hipchest
09-21-2011, 11:15 PM
For Hines it was Courtney Hawkins. Hawk was a Steeler for Ward's first three seasons and while he may not have been an all-pro WR, he was a consumate professional and crucial to Hines' development coming into the NFL. Maybe Hines would have gone on to have the HOF career that we've witnessed anyway, maybe not but it sure didn't hurt. In looking up Hawkins' to make sure I had the years correct, I found out that he is now Head Football Coach and Athletic Director at the high school he attended in Flint MI. Good for Hawk.

:thumbsup: hawkins never really was a fan favorite cause he only put up average numbers at best but i remember the coaches always liking him. the fans just seemed too eager to push him out the door so players like plex, edwards, and hines could get more reps. i would say troy and plex really never got the message.

im willing to bet players such as moss and TO would be complete trainwrecks whose careers had derailed much earlier than their current HOF status had it not been for the aged veteran tutelage of rice and carter.

there are dozens of instances around the NFL. take the packers who always seem to have damn good receivers. from sharpe to freeman to driver, to the current group led by jennings. the only one who never really got with the program was javon walker and look where he is now. wasted talent.

hell, the eagles even went out and grabbed freeman for nothing more than to serva as a mentor to freddie mitchell (whos mediocre talent could unfortunately never match his drive).

on the flipside is teams like jacksonville, ravens, and vikings who really cant do shit to develop high draft pick talents. jax was screwed since mccardell left. the ravens havent had anyone since ismael. the vikings had to trade moss because he became practically useless.

carolinas steve smith has always seemed like a headcase waiting to happen. he probably owes his entire career to mushin muhammed.

its no suprise teams like the raiders and 49ers have struggled with phenoms such as heyward bey and crabbtree.

the only ones who seem immune is the ones named johnson. calvin, anrdae, and chad, seemed to do ok so far, but its plenty obvious chad coulda possibly been even better if he had his head screwed on straight.

the other 2 are freaks of nature and as close to a cant miss as we have seen in the past 20 years.

but the entire NFL is wrong and our very own keyboard stroke artists know it all. :rolleyes:

davidtrout
09-21-2011, 11:43 PM
Hawkins was only in Pittsburgh for the last 3 years (maybe 4) of his career. I remember some fans thought he was keeping Edwards off the field.:rofl: Sound familiar..

He was released in 2000 but resigned because we drafted Burress and had no experience at the position. He was set to retire but came back to help out and provide some leadership. That's the year I remember Hines commenting on their relationship and how valuable it was to him. I recall a conversation I had with my brother that season, we discussed Hawk's future as a coach. Of course, we thought he'd coach in the NFL, but knowing he's mentoring high school kids is even better.

tony hipchest
09-22-2011, 12:12 AM
Hawkins was only in Pittsburgh for the last 3 years (maybe 4) of his career. I remember some fans thought he was keeping Edwards off the field.:rofl: Sound familiar..

He was released in 2000 but resigned because we drafted Burress and had no experience at the position. He was set to retire but came back to help out and provide some leadership. That's the year I remember Hines commenting on their relationship and how valuable it was to him. I recall a conversation I had with my brother that season, we discussed Hawk's future as a coach. Of course, we thought he'd coach in the NFL, but knowing he's mentoring high school kids is even better.remember in 95 we had a pretty damn good group of 5 receivers led by mills and thigpen, but it was that no-name newb who ran the wrong route and essentially cost a SB win with odonnels 2nd int?

hines ward would never run the wrong route, and we always play in superbowls (3 of the past 6- but dont say that around here... it is seen as a negative by some).

davidtrout
09-22-2011, 01:39 AM
remember in 95 we had a pretty damn good group of 5 receivers led by mills and thigpen, but it was that no-name newb who ran the wrong route and essentially cost a SB win with odonnels 2nd int?

hines ward would never run the wrong route, and we always play in superbowls (3 of the past 6- but dont say that around here... it is seen as a negative by some).

I remember all too well. Corey Holiday was his name. Rookie out of UNC, hard to blame him entirely, Gailey called the play b/c Earhardt was basically fired at halftime, and Neil chose the timing pattern to the guy who hadn't caught a pass since preseason. Such is life. How different things might have been had any one of those things not happened.

That was a superb group of WRs though. Thigpen, Johnson, Mills, and Hastings with young Kordell in the mix as well. Great season, great memories.

CaliStillersFan
09-23-2011, 05:04 AM
With all the talent we have at the WR position, and our offensive line's inability to give Ben 3 seconds in the pocket; I'd like to see them use more 4 and 5 WR sets, drop Ben into the shotgun and tear defenses up west coast style (who would expect that from us?). They all should play, all of our WR's are top notch and could start for most teams. I want to see Cotchery get into the mix, he's fast, tall and he's a beast over the middle.

Wallabeast17
09-23-2011, 10:04 AM
With all the talent we have at the WR position, and our offensive line's inability to give Ben 3 seconds in the pocket; I'd like to see them use more 4 and 5 WR sets, drop Ben into the shotgun and tear defenses up west coast style (who would expect that from us?). They all should play, all of our WR's are top notch and could start for most teams. I want to see Cotchery get into the mix, he's fast, tall and he's a beast over the middle.

:applaudit::applaudit:
I would love to see that!

Kanata-Steeler
09-23-2011, 03:51 PM
Yes, 'cause Hines is the glue for the next batch of Stallworths', and Swans', which right now appear to be Wallace and Brown, but just like Hines, they need to be able to take and give some great HITS', when need be. -that's what's different now, get it?
any questions ?
:)

Sixburgher
09-23-2011, 05:29 PM
any questions ?

Yes. You ate a lot of paint chips as a child, didn't you?

ricardisimo
09-24-2011, 05:30 PM
I found this (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_active.htm) to be pretty amazing. Whatever you think of Terrell Owens, he has been statistically-speaking a stud wide receiver for pretty much his entire career, and has avoided injuries up until now. Hines Ward is three years his junior, and yet he's only about a season-and-a-half to two seasons behind Owens on the career receptions list. And Owens is unlikely to be adding to his totals any longer.

In other words, Ward is more of a stud than people give him credit for being.

harrison'samonster
09-24-2011, 05:35 PM
I found this (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_active.htm) to be pretty amazing. Whatever you think of Terrell Owens, he has been statistically-speaking a stud wide receiver for pretty much his entire career, and has avoided injuries up until now. Hines Ward is three years his junior, and yet he's only about a season-and-a-half to two seasons behind Owens on the career receptions list. And Owens is unlikely to be adding to his totals any longer.

In other words, Ward is more of a stud than people give him credit for being.

Something also to think about is that Ward has been on a team that has rarely over the years had a pass-happy offense.