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View Full Version : Coach Lebeau scraps CB's 10-12 yd cushion...


tony hipchest
09-16-2011, 02:14 AM
...atleast for 1 game anyways-

http://pit.scout.com/2/1107073.html

SCHEMATICALLY SPEAKING

LeBeau used few of the big cushions that are part of his trademark three-deep (Cover-3) zones last Sunday. He instead had his corners playing press/man coverage on the Baltimore wide receivers, who combined to catch 4 passes for 74 yards and a touchdown.

But the strategy appeared to have opened the field for the Baltimore tight ends and running backs, who caught 13 passes for 150 yards and 2 touchdowns.

“That’s one of the disadvantages of bump coverage,” said LeBeau. “You lose the vision of that guy (cornerbacks) on runs. But the plus of it is you’re not opening up all that area for that outside receiver to just run down there and turn around at 12 yards and catch the ball. Ideally you try to mix the techniques together so they have to keep guessing exactly what you’re doing.”

Look for LeBeau to get back to his comfort (three-deep) zone very soon.

“There was a game this week where they passed for a thousand yards,” he said.


for six years now, i have probably read hundereds of fans, constantly complain, year in and year out, about our CB's playing 10 yards off the line of scrimmage.

during that time we have led the league in defense numerous times including having the #1 pass defense in 08. last year we only gave up 62 yds of rushing per game. also during that span, we have been to the superbowl six times.

off the top of my head, i think lebeau has coached in 6 sb's in the last 30 years. im guessing the only other current coach in the league who can boast that is bill belichick.

good thing is the fans finally got their wish and got to see some man to man press. of course the average fans gameplan doesnt alway work out quite how they draw it up on a napkin.

Steeldude
09-16-2011, 04:28 AM
...atleast for 1 game anyways-

http://pit.scout.com/2/1107073.html



for six years now, i have probably read hundereds of fans, constantly complain, year in and year out, about our CB's playing 10 yards off the line of scrimmage.

during that time we have led the league in defense numerous times including having the #1 pass defense in 08. last year we only gave up 62 yds of rushing per game. also during that span, we have been to the superbowl six times.

off the top of my head, i think lebeau has coached in 6 sb's in the last 30 years. im guessing the only other current coach in the league who can boast that is bill belichick.

good thing is the fans finally got their wish and got to see some man to man press. of course the average fans gameplan doesnt alway work out quite how they draw it up on a napkin.

but you have to add a pass rush to it. the steelers failed to do that sunday. they couldn't even stop the run. with harrison ailing i don't see pressuring the QB improving. unless lebeau sends more rushers.

playing without any fire is usually going to end in a loss. if they decided to give their 10 yard cushions the outcome would have been the same. the steelers did not show up to play.

i want to see what they do at home against the feeble seahawks. if they get smoked again then something is wrong.

solardave
09-16-2011, 05:50 AM
Most of that I game it looked to me like we were only rushing 3 or 4 with Woodley dropping into coverage. With Harrison ailing it makes sense to let Woodley pin his ears back and go after the QB. Problem there is they hold Harrison (knowing they'll get away with it) and double Woodley. We didn't do much blitzing that I saw and let's face it. Other than Ike who do we have that can play press coverage as a DB? For that matter who do we have that can play DB? (a little sarcasm I know but it's true)

steeltheone
09-16-2011, 06:30 AM
If we don't blitz we get zero pressure on the QB...It's been a problem the last few years.

Fire Arians
09-16-2011, 01:01 PM
Most of that I game it looked to me like we were only rushing 3 or 4 with Woodley dropping into coverage. With Harrison ailing it makes sense to let Woodley pin his ears back and go after the QB. Problem there is they hold Harrison (knowing they'll get away with it) and double Woodley. We didn't do much blitzing that I saw and let's face it. Other than Ike who do we have that can play press coverage as a DB? For that matter who do we have that can play DB? (a little sarcasm I know but it's true)

we probably weren't blitzing because every time we did it seemed to get picked up really easily.

keenan lewis was a strong press corner in college, don't know how well he can do that in the NFL level because well, we never give him any playing time

California-Steel
09-16-2011, 02:53 PM
Well anyone that knows football will know that it is all about personnel. the Steelers don't have the personnel to get pressure with only the front 4. They use a 3-4 scheme where the linebackers are used to get pressure on the QB. We don't have the 4-3 type DE's on the line. We don't have big speed rushers. The Steelers DE's are built to simply take a gap and occupy blockers, then the LB's either make the tackle or rush the QB. Well if you take our 3-4 personnel and try to play it as a 4-3 then you got slow DE trying to rush the passer or small LB's trying to take on huge tackles one on one 4 rushers are used. Not got to win many of those.

The Steelers are only setup to play a pure 3-4 and they need to get pressure with LB's coming free. Not only coming free but they need to confuse the running backs as not to get chipped or picked up.

Now with all that said the Steelers DB's have to play off so that our pressure has time to develop. That means no deep balls and keep it all in front of you. No breaking on ball and not many INT's.

If you play it any other way TE's and RB's will kill you. Just like they did. WR's only accounted for 74 total yards. They were pretty much shutdown all game. But no way can LB's cover good TE's or RB's. Just can't happen.

The Steelers are built to play only one way and they have to stick with that way for now.

BKAnthem
09-16-2011, 04:16 PM
You can't play press coverage when you only have 1 corner on the field that's able to successfully,and use our safeties to help out in the middle if your going to press...next excuse

truesteelerfan
09-16-2011, 04:49 PM
And you have to change things up...keep the O on it's toes...some plays bump, some plays drop back...you will catch them eventually calling a play that works in our favor to be in a particular setting.

steelerjim58
09-16-2011, 05:23 PM
If we don't blitz we get zero pressure on the QB...It's been a problem the last few years.

I think a lot of people get fixated on the number of sacks the Steelers get. Sure 48 sacks led the league, but thats 3 a game on average. When teams are routinely throwing 35-40 times a game, that is only getting to the qb once every 10-11 passes. Hurries and knockdowns are just as important. And imo the Steelers have been woefully lacking in that department for years. Of course with so many teams using the spread them out dink and dunk offense it is difficult.

MACH1
09-16-2011, 05:52 PM
for six years now, i have probably read hundereds of fans, constantly complain, year in and year out, about our CB's playing 10 yards off the line of scrimmage.

Guilty as charged.

I mostly bitch on the 3rd and a couple when the cb's are way off and we get dinked on for a first.

Steelersfan87
09-16-2011, 06:01 PM
I think a lot of people get fixated on the number of sacks the Steelers get. Sure 48 sacks led the league, but thats 3 a game on average. When teams are routinely throwing 35-40 times a game, that is only getting to the qb once every 10-11 passes. Hurries and knockdowns are just as important. And imo the Steelers have been woefully lacking in that department for years. Of course with so many teams using the spread them out dink and dunk offense it is difficult.

Huh? The Steelers get as many hurries and pressures as anybody in the league. And Brett Keisel was knocking down a pass or two almost every game.

SteeleReign
09-16-2011, 06:52 PM
...atleast for 1 game anyways-

http://pit.scout.com/2/1107073.html



for six years now, i have probably read hundereds of fans, constantly complain, year in and year out, about our CB's playing 10 yards off the line of scrimmage.

during that time we have led the league in defense numerous times including having the #1 pass defense in 08. last year we only gave up 62 yds of rushing per game. also during that span, we have been to the superbowl six times.

off the top of my head, i think lebeau has coached in 6 sb's in the last 30 years. im guessing the only other current coach in the league who can boast that is bill belichick.

good thing is the fans finally got their wish and got to see some man to man press. of course the average fans gameplan doesnt alway work out quite how they draw it up on a napkin.

Who cares if we are stopping the run, when teams are passing the ball up & down the field on us. We either need to find a way to consistently pressure the QB, allowing the DBs to make up that 10-yard gap or we need to find some DBs that can play bump coverage adequately.

It's obvious that the games where we get little pressure on the QB we will either lose or barely win. Sure, we may beat the Cincys & Seattles of the world, but the teams we need to beat to win the Superbowl....NE, GBAY, NO...will eat our lunch (and dinner) without a consistent heavy pass rush.

steeltheone
09-16-2011, 07:11 PM
Well anyone that knows football will know that it is all about personnel. the Steelers don't have the personnel to get pressure with only the front 4. They use a 3-4 scheme where the linebackers are used to get pressure on the QB. We don't have the 4-3 type DE's on the line. We don't have big speed rushers. The Steelers DE's are built to simply take a gap and occupy blockers, then the LB's either make the tackle or rush the QB. Well if you take our 3-4 personnel and try to play it as a 4-3 then you got slow DE trying to rush the passer or small LB's trying to take on huge tackles one on one 4 rushers are used. Not got to win many of those.

The Steelers are only setup to play a pure 3-4 and they need to get pressure with LB's coming free. Not only coming free but they need to confuse the running backs as not to get chipped or picked up.

Now with all that said the Steelers DB's have to play off so that our pressure has time to develop. That means no deep balls and keep it all in front of you. No breaking on ball and not many INT's.

If you play it any other way TE's and RB's will kill you. Just like they did. WR's only accounted for 74 total yards. They were pretty much shutdown all game. But no way can LB's cover good TE's or RB's. Just can't happen.

The Steelers are built to play only one way and they have to stick with that way for now.
I understand all that....You can still get a pass rush or hurries more frequently..

Danny136200
09-16-2011, 07:39 PM
I think a lot of people get fixated on the number of sacks the Steelers get. Sure 48 sacks led the league, but thats 3 a game on average. When teams are routinely throwing 35-40 times a game, that is only getting to the qb once every 10-11 passes. Hurries and knockdowns are just as important. And imo the Steelers have been woefully lacking in that department for years. Of course with so many teams using the spread them out dink and dunk offense it is difficult.
no, not really, last year, except for a couple of games, we regularly hurried the QB on passing downs and such

Steel4ever95
09-16-2011, 08:05 PM
I'm all for whatever gets the d back on track. Lebeau will get the d going again and all will be right with the world. The secondary must be a big focal point once the offseason comes around though. It would be nice to see the Steelers pick up another CB that can play man to man, I think that would help the Steelers a lot when it comes to teams that spread them out.

Fire Arians
09-16-2011, 08:26 PM
I'm all for whatever gets the d back on track. Lebeau will get the d going again and all will be right with the world. The secondary must be a big focal point once the offseason comes around though. It would be nice to see the Steelers pick up another CB that can play man to man, I think that would help the Steelers a lot when it comes to teams that spread them out.

they drafted one of the top cover corners in the draft, but too bad he wont see the field for another 6 years or however long it takes to learn lebeau's scheme

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-16-2011, 11:05 PM
Some of the answeer to our pass rush, is to get Ziggy Hood and Cameron Heyward on the field. Ziggy has the fastest jump off the ball and the longest arms of any of our Dlinemen. We all missed Aaron Smith, but sometime during those 11 weeks we lived without him last year, Ziggy overtook him and should be the starter at this point. Aaron looked his age this last Sunday, and the run defense got gashed as a result. With Ziggy in there last year, we allowed a league low 62 yards rushing per game.

Hood & Timmons help collapse the middle of the pocket towards opposing QBs, forcing them to seek refuge towards the outsides, where we have Silverback and Woodley waiting.

We have been in awe of our current Dlinemen for nearly a decade, but it looked Sunday like it may be time for the Ziggy Hood and Cameron Heyward era to start. We normally do not expect our 3-4 DEs' to help with pressuring the QB, but if they can...even better.

BKAnthem
09-17-2011, 12:01 AM
Yeah usually the 'Backers get pressure and force opposing QB's into hurried throws that allowed our slow corners not named Taylor to tee off on their Wr's......but the league has begun to catch on, so now LeBeau has to adjust which he's usually good at with these same slow ass corners or we are going to get gashed weekly....

Moose
09-17-2011, 02:06 AM
We got CB's ? LOL

LVSteelersfan
09-17-2011, 11:11 AM
People have tons of film on the Steelers on both sides of the ball. Their stubborn egos refuse to mix it up a bit. Sorry, but that doesn't cut it. Teams in the AFC North have been drafting to match up with the way the Steelers play. It was obvious last week that doing the same old, same old doesn't work. The linebackers need to do what they did to HInes on the crossing route and knock them on their butts or at least chip them and knock them off the route. It is ok if it is inside the 5 yard chuck area. They just let them run loose through that area and that is where the Steelers got killed last week. Find them, hit them, and destroy the play instead of running around like a bunch of chickens with no heads.

lipps83
09-17-2011, 11:22 AM
I think a lot of people get fixated on the number of sacks the Steelers get. Sure 48 sacks led the league, but thats 3 a game on average. When teams are routinely throwing 35-40 times a game, that is only getting to the qb once every 10-11 passes. Hurries and knockdowns are just as important. And imo the Steelers have been woefully lacking in that department for years. Of course with so many teams using the spread them out dink and dunk offense it is difficult.

What the Steelers need to do is draft a couple stud defensive lineman in the first round, and then have them sit on the bench for a couple of years so slow old timers can play because they are 'vets'.

steelerjim58
09-17-2011, 12:18 PM
no, not really, last year, except for a couple of games, we regularly hurried the QB on passing downs and such

I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree on this point.

effyou515
09-17-2011, 02:42 PM
in the nexy two years this team is going to be every different and these older players will be gone. hope the Steelers can pull off a couple of monster drafts the next few years.

Steel4ever95
09-17-2011, 04:23 PM
they drafted one of the top cover corners in the draft, but too bad he wont see the field for another 6 years or however long it takes to learn lebeau's scheme

Well hopefully he steps it up soon, McFadden had his time with the Steelers before Arizona and now looks like he is done, and I have never been to high on Gay. I'm sure the lockout slowed the progress down of the rookie cb's as well, it would be nice to see the Steelers give the young guys a chance here and there.

Whodis
09-18-2011, 07:43 AM
I kind of agree with the point of "watch what you wish for". It burns my ass when they give a 12yd cusion on 3rd and 4. McFadded looks like Willie Williams. Gay's rookie season looked very promising. The only time he looks good is blitzing.

With all the criticism of the secondary, I think a little bit has to be passed on to the fact we are getting no pressure on the QB (except for our own).

Steel4ever95
09-18-2011, 09:35 AM
I kind of agree with the point of "watch what you wish for". It burns my ass when they give a 12yd cusion on 3rd and 4. McFadded looks like Willie Williams. Gay's rookie season looked very promising. The only time he looks good is blitzing.

With all the criticism of the secondary, I think a little bit has to be passed on to the fact we are getting no pressure on the QB (except for our own).

Not to start anything but the LB's do need a little time to get to the QB. I'm not saying the CB's have to give the LB's lockdown coverage (that would be nice though) but they need to give them a couple seconds to put a little pressure on the QB.

Whodis
09-18-2011, 09:38 AM
Not to start anything but the LB's do need a little time to get to the QB. I'm not saying the CB's have to give the LB's lockdown coverage (that would be nice though) but they need to give them a couple seconds to put a little pressure on the QB.

Since we're sticking up for the LB's and talking about coverage, think maybe they could cover a TE some time this year?

Steel4ever95
09-18-2011, 09:53 AM
Since we're sticking up for the LB's and talking about coverage, think maybe they could cover a TE some time this year?

Very true the TE's did kill it in the game. The coverage on the TE's could have been much better indeed, but the only real cover guy I see on the Steelers LB core is Timmons. I say Timmons is the best in coverage becasue he has the speed to play in coverage and can cover ground. Harrison and Woodley and Farrior play good in coverage but only if its probably zone. It was very hard to sit there and watch the Steelers get picked apart like that, but the good news is it was only one game, and I'm sure they will rebound and fix the problems.