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theplatypus
09-26-2011, 08:31 AM
when the offense gives away 13 points some people blame the defense? The defense gave up ONE ****ING DRIVE and was within inches of ending that drive, but they're the problem. In two games our offense has killed 10 drives by committing turnovers, but by and large the defense gets the blame. Oh I know IF, IF, IF someone had caught the ball

cloppbeast
09-26-2011, 08:38 AM
I agree.

People don't want to blame the golden boy. That's my opinion.

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 08:42 AM
They live in some fantasy world spouting off about if this and if that.

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 08:57 AM
Not a fantasy. If you want to pretend that the defense is fine you do that. Watch the game again. If Manning completes 50% of the missed throws by Collins/Painter we would have been playing catch-up - and it's no stretch to assume that.

Sure, our offense is looking pathetic too. But, I hold the defese in higher regard than the offense. I knew that our o-line would struggle, Ben would hold the ball too long, Mendy would dance around, and Arians would be Arians.

I didn't expect little to no pass rush by the LBs, little to no push by the DL, missed assignments by the DBs, lazy play by the D as a whole. And a complete disappearing act by Woodley.

Alll I'm saying is that the defensive play so far surprises & concerns me more.

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 09:02 AM
There's one of the if's and but's crowd now, spewing forth more if's and but's. WOW! I bet no one saw that coming.

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 09:05 AM
Are the if's and but's a subset of the sky is falling crowd or a separate entity?

Rockonsteel
09-26-2011, 09:07 AM
The defense got no pressure on the qb. One sack, which generated the first defensive turnover of the season 12 quarters into the season. They still have zero ints. That's against J. Flacco, Tavarus Jackson, Kerry Collins & Curtis Painter.(Meabwhile the Bills intercepted Brady 4 times...wow!) They were getting gashed by the Colts rushing game. They were very fortunate that Painter overthrew Garcon on that play. And they allowed a bad 3rd string qb with no game experience to lead an 80 drive down the field at the end of the game, and frankly, he made it look easy.

So, while the offense deserves their share of the blame, the defense has not exactly been stellar. In fact they've looked rather pefdestrian for the most part. While they are not THE problem, they are certainly part of the problem, and certainly not providing a whole lot of solutions in the form of turnovers, sacks, and the like.

Right now, this whole team is stinking, through and through, with the exception of a couple individual efforts in each game. Offense stinks, defense is mediocre and special teams aren't really doing anything all that special. And the whole coaching staff(Tomlin, LeBeau and the guy who calls play for the offense), has done a bad job thus far, of having this team ready to avenge last years SB loss.


Rockon

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 09:16 AM
There's one of the if's and but's crowd now, spewing forth more if's and but's. WOW! I bet no one saw that coming.

Sure...call me crazy, but I'd put my money on Manning making a difference for Indy's offense. Would we have lost? Who knows? This argument boils down to the fact that you think our offense is worse than our defense, and I feel the opposite. Pretty sad that we have to debate this.

Let me just say that a win next week over the Texans could make me change my mind.

Curtain_of_Steel
09-26-2011, 09:18 AM
Not the D's fault. Although I would like to know what Lebeau was thinking playing 2 D lineman most of the game. Only late did we have 3 out there. Having 2 allows for some running.

Wasn't really Bens fault, you can't have LB's in your kock after the first step back. They think getting to the SB was a success based off the Oline, so they dont have to fix it. We have a ton of money out there and we are not fixing the holes.

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 09:18 AM
The defense got no pressure on the qb. One sack, which generated the first defensive turnover of the season 12 quarters into the season. They still have zero ints. That's against J. Flacco, Tavarus Jackson, Kerry Collins & Curtis Painter.(Meabwhile the Bills intercepted Brady 4 times...wow!) They were getting gashed by the Colts rushing game. They were very fortunate that Painter overthrew Garcon on that play. And they allowed a bad 3rd string qb with no game experience to lead an 80 drive down the field at the end of the game, and frankly, he made it look easy.

So, while the offense deserves their share of the blame, the defense has not exactly been stellar. In fact they've looked rather pefdestrian for the most part. While they are not THE problem, they are certainly part of the problem, and certainly not providing a whole lot of solutions in the form of turnovers, sacks, and the like.

Right now, this whole team is stinking, through and through, with the exception of a couple individual efforts in each game. Offense stinks, defense is mediocre and special teams aren't really doing anything all that special. And the whole coaching staff(Tomlin, LeBeau and the guy who calls play for the offense), has done a bad job thus far, of having this team ready to avenge last years SB loss.


Rockon

Well said. I'm just more surprised that our D has been so lackluster. Whereas, I expected this from our offense - no surprise at all.

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 09:23 AM
Sure...call me crazy, but I'd put my money on Manning making a difference for Indy's offense. Would we have lost? Who knows? This argument boils down to the fact that you think our offense is worse than our defense, and I feel the opposite. Pretty sad that we have to debate this.

Let me just say that a win next week over the Texans could make me change my mind.

How can you discount 10 turnovers in 2 games? Here's one from your playbook. IF the offense didn't give the ball away 10 times in 2 games we would be 3-0. Last night the defense had no say in half of their total points.

jtbsteeler
09-26-2011, 09:26 AM
Not the D's fault. Although I would like to know what Lebeau was thinking playing 2 D lineman most of the game. Only late did we have 3 out there. Having 2 allows for some running.

Wasn't really Bens fault, you can't have LB's in your kock after the first step back. They think getting to the SB was a success based off the Oline, so they dont have to fix it. We have a ton of money out there and we are not fixing the holes.

And where was McClendon after a solid game last week?

Lebeau, do me a favor and sit Aaron Smith. Hood seems better against the run and pressures the pocket.

steeltheone
09-26-2011, 09:31 AM
And where was McClendon after a solid game last week?

Lebeau, do me a favor and sit Aaron Smith. Hood seems better against the run and pressures the pocket.

This love affair with Smith needs to stop...Imagine the OLineman we could have for his 6 mill salary, which the front office NEVER asked him to renegotiate.

Steeldude
09-26-2011, 09:31 AM
when the offense gives away 13 points some people blame the defense? The defense gave up ONE ****ING DRIVE and was within inches of ending that drive, but they're the problem. In two games our offense has killed 10 drives by committing turnovers, but by and large the defense gets the blame. Oh I know IF, IF, IF someone had caught the ball

it was obvious the steelers' run defense was not that great. hampton and smith were pretty much manhandled. you also have to take into account how many poor throws to wide open WRs the colts threw.

the steelers are not playing well. how ell do you think it would have gone with manning at the helm?

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 09:33 AM
The defense got no pressure on the qb. One sack, which generated the first defensive turnover of the season 12 quarters into the season.


Hello? The defense that supposedly got no pressure, knocked the starting QB out of the game.

Steelerfreak58
09-26-2011, 09:36 AM
Defense had basically one bad series against a really bad offense. The offense and Arians did just about everything they could to lose that game.

cloppbeast
09-26-2011, 09:37 AM
Not a fantasy. If you want to pretend that the defense is fine you do that. Watch the game again. If Manning completes 50% of the missed throws by Collins/Painter we would have been playing catch-up - and it's no stretch to assume that.

Sure, our offense is looking pathetic too. But, I hold the defese in higher regard than the offense. I knew that our o-line would struggle, Ben would hold the ball too long, Mendy would dance around, and Arians would be Arians.

I didn't expect little to no pass rush by the LBs, little to no push by the DL, missed assignments by the DBs, lazy play by the D as a whole. And a complete disappearing act by Woodley.

Alll I'm saying is that the defensive play so far surprises & concerns me more.

I don't have much confidence in the defense stopping a good offense. But I have absolutely no confidence in the offense scoring on a good defense.

Last night our defense lined up against a shitty offense and held them to 20 points, with help from the offense with 3 turnovers, and scored 7 points for the offfense.

The offense lined up agaisnt a shitty defense and turned the ball over 3 times, ran the ball for like 50 yards, and scored 16 points.

Not only did the defense hold the Colts to 7 honest points, they also scored almost half as many points as the offense.

SoCalFan
09-26-2011, 09:39 AM
Knocked out the starting QB yes,but come on,its no secret we are getting NO pass rush this season and what does QB pressure bring? TURNOVERS/INTs....We have 1 turnover with 0 int's in 3 games.....WHY sugar coat this?

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 09:41 AM
This love affair with Smith needs to stop...Imagine the OLineman we could have for his 6 mill salary, which the front office NEVER asked him to renegotiate.


and how do you know that Smith was never asked to renegotiate?

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 09:46 AM
Knocked out the starting QB yes,but come on,its no secret we are getting NO pass rush this season and what does QB pressure bring? TURNOVERS/INTs....We have 1 turnover with 0 int's in 3 games.....WHY sugar coat this?

I'm not sugar coating anything. THe simple fact is at least half the stuff the sky is falling crowd spews is absolute garbage. Our offense has given the ball away 10 times in 3 games and 13 times in the last 4. You can't blame the defense when they're constantly asked to defend a 10 yard field. When's the last time you heard of a team winning after turning the ball over 7 times? What's the W/L percentage when turning the ball over 3 times in a game?

jtbsteeler
09-26-2011, 09:52 AM
and how do you know that Smith was never asked to renegotiate?

You're missing or dodging the point my friend. When Keisel comes back, Aaorn Smith should replace him on the bench.

There's alot of yapping coming from the NFL network about this defense being old, but its noticeably old at 2 or 3 spots. Aaron Smith is one of them.

Troy and Harrison have heard the criticism and they look like they've done a 180. Farrior and Smith are what they are right now.

Any doubt they're on their way to another All-Pro season? troy's on his game. If he wouldve tackled Addai instead of whiffing at the ball his performance last night wouldve be in his top 5.

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 09:54 AM
How can you discount 10 turnovers in 2 games? Here's one from your playbook. IF the offense didn't give the ball away 10 times in 2 games we would be 3-0. Last night the defense had no say in half of their total points.

I guess my point is lost. I'm more disappointed in our D - they have been tops in most defensive categories for years. They don't look like that defense any more.

Our offense is bad. But, I didn't expect much from them given that nothing changed from last year to make me feel they would be better. We are getting more of the same each week. I'm not surprised. Are you?

SteelMusic
09-26-2011, 09:54 AM
Our D is #2 in overall stats. Nuff said!
http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 09:55 AM
it was obvious the steelers' run defense was not that great. hampton and smith were pretty much manhandled. you also have to take into account how many poor throws to wide open WRs the colts threw.

the steelers are not playing well. how ell do you think it would have gone with manning at the helm?

You're not allowed to ask this quesion. We shouldn't assume Manning would have been any better.

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 10:02 AM
You're missing or dodging the point my friend. When Keisel comes back, Aaorn Smith should replace him on the bench.

There's alot of yapping coming from the NFL network about this defense being old, but its noticeably old at 2 or 3 spots. Aaron Smith is one of them.

Troy and Harrison have heard the criticism and they look like they've done a 180. Farrior and Smith are what they are right now.

Any doubt they're on their way to another All-Pro season? troy's on his game. If he wouldve tackled Addai instead of whiffing at the ball his performance last night wouldve be in his top 5.


I'm not dodging or missing squat, people are just spewing crap. Since you missed it we don't know if the Steelers asked to renegotiate the contract. Saying otherwise is just garbage.

Troy and HArrison have heard the criticism? WTF is that? Who;s ass did you pull that from?

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 10:05 AM
I guess my point is lost. I'm more disappointed in our D - they have been tops in most defensive categories for years. They don't look like that defense any more.

Our offense is bad. But, I didn't expect much from them given that nothing changed from last year to make me feel they would be better. We are getting more of the same each week. I'm not surprised. Are you?

Our D is #2 in overall stats. Nuff said!
http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

Apparently they still are. :rofl:

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 10:05 AM
I'm not sugar coating anything. THe simple fact is at least half the stuff the sky is falling crowd spews is absolute garbage. Our offense has given the ball away 10 times in 3 games and 13 times in the last 4. You can't blame the defense when they're constantly asked to defend a 10 yard field. When's the last time you heard of a team winning after turning the ball over 7 times? What's the W/L percentage when turning the ball over 3 times in a game?

Listen. I hear what you're saying. We are basically fighting over which smells worse, cat shi! or dog shit!. They both stink.

My point is that I'm more disappointed in the D because I expected more from them. The offensive issues are no surprise to me. I expected what we've gotten so far...well, except for 7 TOs at B-more.

SteelMusic
09-26-2011, 10:08 AM
Listen. I hear what you're saying. We are basically fighting over which smells worse, cat shi! or dog shit!. They both stink.

My point is that I'm more disappointed in the D because I expected more from them. The offensive issues are no surprise to me. I expected what we've gotten so far...well, except for 7 TOs at B-more.

Again, Our D is ranked #2 overall and #1 in pass defense. And all of this with an Offense that loves to put them in bad situations and keeps them on the field all damn game.

steelfury02
09-26-2011, 10:08 AM
I expected this level of drop off in the o-line (which I think they vastly improved last year) because of a combination of injuries, inexperience, and letting go one too many experienced O-lineman (Flozell or Starks should still be on this team)

I did not expect Ben's crappy-as* interceptions in these first 3 games. I also was hoping that while he is getting the ball out a little faster (it seems) he would know in his 8th season that in some situations you GOT, GOT, GOT to get rid of the ball. Blame the protection issues to an extent - but Ben gets at least 40% of the blame for turnovers IMHO.

I'm on the fence with the defense. Any chance we get A.Smith to play O-line? Lol. I'm sure he would be an upgrade at tackle lol. Hood absolutely needs to be in there at least 75% of the time after I watched last night's performance. I was willing to give Smith the benefit of the doubt and say they should split series or some kind of sharing but no way. Smith got O_W_N_E_D. There is no question - the combination of injuries over the past few seasons plus 3 straight games of getting pushed around is just getting too much. We have to have someone on the D-line who going to have a lot more fire than that. Ike made his first mistake of the season (and yes, could have been one big costly mistake) but he has been shutdown for the most part. Where the F is Timmons and Woodley? Honestly - please tell me - is it just the way Lebeau is calling it that they are dropping back more? I can't believe the lack of pressure, the way we were run on in the end, etc, etc. I believe Harrison is a lot closer to 100% after seeing him last night. I'd put him at about 90%. We need MORE PRESSURE.

After 3 games I'll give
Offense: C-
O-line play (injuries, experience((gel time)), and skill taken into account), Coughing up the ball bring them down to D-. They don't get an F and are brought up to C- because of 2 things that equals two wins out of 3 - A. Players like Wallace, Brown, Miller and Ward who have made some clutch plays and B. Third down conversion has been good.

Defense: C+
D-line play is an area of concern. It might be time to see more Hood and a little of Heyward. A.Smith's time is just about over. When you allow the Colts to run on you the way they did on the end, that isn't Steeler Defense. Waiting for players not named Harrison and Polamalu to turn up the heat on opposing QBs. Defensive backs have rebounded well after Bmore debacle IMHO

Special Teams: B
Watching Brown is like watching a juiced up version of Randle El. We have had some nice field positioning and haven't given up anything huge yet. Let's get the penalties down. Sepulvada and Suisham are doing a nice job. Give them credit for the field goals they got - we needed them after the brain fart that was the offense.

Coaching: C
Wk 1 - They deserved an F. Wk 2 - They deserved a D. Wk 3 - They now deserve a C. As Tomlin has stated - the stench is still on them. They should have never come out so flat to begin with but I feel they are sending an important message and the players are listening. They are still the team that lost ugly to Bmore - but they won't apologize for a win. Win at all costs, win in any way. That is a great attitude to have. Heart can take this team a long way - but the coaches, both offensively and defensively need to help them find an identity. They have been somewhat of a turnover machine to start this season and the defense has not been stopping the run or causing the turnovers like they want to. They are 2-1, like most of the AFC - but you gotta believe they are heading to another dogfight at Houston next week.

Here's to hoping they find there way, take it 1 game at a time, and continue building . . .:drink:

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 10:09 AM
it was obvious the steelers' run defense was not that great. hampton and smith were pretty much manhandled. you also have to take into account how many poor throws to wide open WRs the colts threw.

the steelers are not playing well. how ell do you think it would have gone with manning at the helm?

You're not allowed to ask this quesion. We shouldn't assume Manning would have been any better.

Ask away, but it's garbage fantasy land bs. It has absolutely no bearing on the game that played on the field. You might as well be playing Dungeons and Dragons. For every "if" that you come up with I can counter with another "if" and you can't discount it because it's just a figment of your imagination.

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 10:09 AM
Our D is #2 in overall stats. Nuff said!
http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

Yep. And we've faced #'s 29 & 31 in total offense the last two weeks. Whoopdeedoo. If we are still there after playing Houston next week then I will eat my words and my keyboard.

cloppbeast
09-26-2011, 10:10 AM
My point is that I'm more disappointed in the D because I expected more from them. The offensive issues are no surprise to me. I expected what we've gotten so far...well, except for 7 TOs at B-more.

Fair enough. I understand.

You counted on the defense more, and they've let you down. You never expected the offense to perform, so you aren't disappointed. Makes sense.

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 10:18 AM
[QUOTE=SteeleReign;947507]

Ask away, but it's garbage fantasy land bs. It has absolutely no bearing on the game that played on the field. You might as well be playing Dungeons and Dragons. For every "if" that you come up with I can counter with another "if" and you can't discount it because it's just a figment of your imagination.

I hear what you're saying. I don't think it a stretch to assume that Manning would have made a difference.

Would the Colts have won? Maybe not? But, it doesn't change what I saw on the field. Open receivers all over the place. Manning + open receiver = trouble. Almost no pressure on the QB. Manning + no pressure + open receivers = BIG TROUBLE.

But, I guess that's just a figment of my imagination. Cuz that's never happened to us before. And Manning has never torched us before.

SteelMusic
09-26-2011, 10:20 AM
Yep. And we've faced #'s 29 & 31 in total offense the last two weeks. Whoopdeedoo. If we are still there after playing Houston next week then I will eat my words and my keyboard.

Houston and SF played those teams and are they ranked #2? No! Did we shut out the Seahawks? Yes! Your point?

BossAus
09-26-2011, 10:23 AM
Hello? The defense that supposedly got no pressure, knocked the starting QB out of the game.

Yeah, because of one play. Farrior knocked down Collins late and he somehow concussed himself. That play and the Harrison forced fumble were the only pressures of the game.

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 10:59 AM
Yeah, because of one play. Farrior knocked down Collins late and he somehow concussed himself. That play and the Harrison forced fumble were the only pressures of the game.

I don't care if it was 1 or 21, it doesn't change the fact that the statement I addressed is based on a fallacy. The opposing QB's were 18-40 with a 3.5 ypc average, our defense didn't exactly get torched. Once again our offense turned the ball over 3 times in one quarter. Our supposed horrendous, soft as cotton defense held them to 6 points off two of those turnovers.

Danny136200
09-26-2011, 11:23 AM
Defense had basically one bad series against a really bad offense. The offense and Arians did just about everything they could to lose that game.

And why blame bruce?

caplovestroyp43
09-26-2011, 11:57 AM
[QUOTE=theplatypus;947519]

I hear what you're saying. I don't think it a stretch to assume that Manning would have made a difference.

Would the Colts have won? Maybe not? But, it doesn't change what I saw on the field. Open receivers all over the place. Manning + open receiver = trouble. Almost no pressure on the QB. Manning + no pressure + open receivers = BIG TROUBLE.

But, I guess that's just a figment of my imagination. Cuz that's never happened to us before. And Manning has never torched us before.

I think if Manning was in there last night, we would have been French Toast!

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 12:20 PM
Houston and SF played those teams and are they ranked #2? No! Did we shut out the Seahawks? Yes! Your point?

My point? We are Steelers, not the pathetic Texans and Niners. We were in the Super Bowl last year. We were expected to be a contender to get back. So far, our defense (and offense for that matter) won't get us back there.

Fire Arians
09-26-2011, 12:26 PM
Again, Our D is ranked #2 overall and #1 in pass defense. And all of this with an Offense that loves to put them in bad situations and keeps them on the field all damn game.

#1 in pass defense isn't hard if 66% of your games were against either tavaris jackson or kerry collins. now if they keep that ranking coming out of the texans game, then that would mean something

OX1947
09-26-2011, 12:38 PM
when the offense gives away 13 points some people blame the defense? The defense gave up ONE ****ING DRIVE and was within inches of ending that drive, but they're the problem. In two games our offense has killed 10 drives by committing turnovers, but by and large the defense gets the blame. Oh I know IF, IF, IF someone had caught the ball

For the same reason why cops go with evidence instead of eyeball witnesses. because people see what they want to see sometimes. And it doesn't help that the NFL encourages even more to watch meaningless fantasy stats to determine what goes on in the game.

MOMENTUM is EVERYTHING in sports. And even more with the Steelers in their history.

Turnovers are turnovers. Doesn't matter if your line sucks, or you suck or whoever sucks. You can control turnovers if you pay attention. Ben might not be able to avoid sacks and an occasional turnover, but all I have been saying is if you know that you are in a situation where you are continuously getting sacked and stripped, how bout you adjust a little and at least protect the ball. 1 turnover is worse then 3 in and outs, 3 times in a row. Especially when we have a punter who can kick it to the moon.

Steeldude
09-26-2011, 12:58 PM
I'm not sugar coating anything. THe simple fact is at least half the stuff the sky is falling crowd spews is absolute garbage. Our offense has given the ball away 10 times in 3 games and 13 times in the last 4. You can't blame the defense when they're constantly asked to defend a 10 yard field. When's the last time you heard of a team winning after turning the ball over 7 times? What's the W/L percentage when turning the ball over 3 times in a game?

with no TOs i still don't see the steelers beating the ravens at all. the steelers were completely destroyed by a better team that day.

the steelers' neglect of the O-line is killing them.

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 01:02 PM
with no TOs i still don't see the steelers beating the ravens at all. the steelers were completely destroyed by a better team that day.

the steelers' neglect of the O-line is killing them.

Yet once again you're spewing more garbage. We've spent 5 draft picks in the last 3 years addressing the o-line, but don't let the facts get in the way of your bs.

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 01:29 PM
Yet once again you're spewing more garbage. We've spent 5 draft picks in the last 3 years addressing the o-line, but don't let the facts get in the way of your bs.

If you think our recent drafts were a serious attempt at addressing our o-line, think again.

11 - Gilbert - promising, but far from a guarantee

10 - Pouncey - great pick, but should have taken another OL somewhere in the top 4 rounds. Rather, we take Worilds, Sanders, Gibson. Not good.

09 - Urbik in the 3rd. Didn't pan out. I'd argue against Ziggy in the first round. Wallace in the 2nd is gold.

08 - Hills in the 4th. Then we take Sweed in 2nd, Bruce Davis in the 3rd. Pathetic.

07 - Stephenson in the 5th. That's it.

06 - Colon in the 4th. Pretty good value pick. However, over-valued by the Steelers.

05 - Trai Essex in the 3rd. Too high for the return, but serviceable as a back-up.

That's it. So, if this is addressing the line issues then we need to replace our talent evaluators. Pouncey is the only good pick in the bunch. The remainder are now junk.

Fire Arians
09-26-2011, 01:35 PM
If you think our recent drafts were a serious attempt at addressing our o-line, think again.

11 - Gilbert - promising, but far from a guarantee

10 - Pouncey - great pick, but should have taken another OL somewhere in the top 4 rounds. Rather, we take Worilds, Sanders, Gibson. Not good.

09 - Urbik in the 3rd. Didn't pan out. I'd argue against Ziggy in the first round. Wallace in the 2nd is gold.

08 - Hills in the 4th. Then we take Sweed in 2nd, Bruce Davis in the 3rd. Pathetic.

07 - Stephenson in the 5th. That's it.

06 - Colon in the 4th. Pretty good value pick. However, over-valued by the Steelers.

05 - Trai Essex in the 3rd. Too high for the return, but serviceable as a back-up.

That's it. So, if this is addressing the line issues then we need to replace our talent evaluators. Pouncey is the only good pick in the bunch. The remainder are now junk.

I'd say gilbert is already better than j.scott, wouldn't call him junk. for the most part he did a really good job on robert mathis, which is nothing to sneeze at

Rockonsteel
09-26-2011, 01:38 PM
Yet once again you're spewing more garbage. We've spent 5 draft picks in the last 3 years addressing the o-line, but don't let the facts get in the way of your bs.


Well only one of those was in the 1st round, only one in the 2nd round. The rest were picked in the 3rd round or lower, and the 3rd rounder happens to be starting at guard for the undefeated Buffalo Bills, who are home to 2nd leading rusher in the league(he was first before D-Mac went sick on the Jets yesterday). The other two, one is a backup scrub who adds no real value in terms of high level offensive line play. And the fifth, I believe is no longer on the team, and may not even be in the league. That is not exactly what I would call a commitment to the O-line. So, if we're state facts, let's make sure we incluce them all. Don't leave out the inconvenient details.



Rockon

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 01:46 PM
If you think our recent drafts were a serious attempt at addressing our o-line, think again.

11 - Gilbert - promising, but far from a guarantee

10 - Pouncey - great pick, but should have taken another OL somewhere in the top 4 rounds. Rather, we take Worilds, Sanders, Gibson. Not good.

09 - Urbik in the 3rd. Didn't pan out. I'd argue against Ziggy in the first round. Wallace in the 2nd is gold.

08 - Hills in the 4th. Then we take Sweed in 2nd, Bruce Davis in the 3rd. Pathetic.

07 - Stephenson in the 5th. That's it.

06 - Colon in the 4th. Pretty good value pick. However, over-valued by the Steelers.

05 - Trai Essex in the 3rd. Too high for the return, but serviceable as a back-up.

That's it. So, if this is addressing the line issues then we need to replace our talent evaluators. Pouncey is the only good pick in the bunch. The remainder are now junk.


What you fail too grasp or admit is the majority of all draft picks do not go on to be impact players. Also it doesn't help that we consistetnly draft at the bottom. Of course some of you claim we should be trading up, but here's a little news flash it takes two to tango. It also doesn't help that other teams have an effect on how and who we draft.

You can't have it both ways. People cry about how or D-line or LB'ers are old/slow and then complain that the FO should of used those picks on the o-line instead. "Farrior, Foote, Harrison are too old and slow" and then in the same breath"WTF were they thinking drafting a lb'er?"

It sucks, but Urbik is doing exactly what we drafted him to do and that's be a starting NFL Guard. He wasn't ready for a roster spot last year and we gambled and lost trying to sneak him onto the practice squad.

And since you love to deal with ifs and buts let's not forget that if it weren't for catastrophic injuries the o-line probably wouldn't even be a topic of conversation.

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 01:50 PM
I'd say gilbert is already better than j.scott, wouldn't call him junk. for the most part he did a really good job on robert mathis, which is nothing to sneeze at

I agree. I don't mean to throw Gilbert in with that bunch. He's unproven, but definitely looks promising.

BKAnthem
09-26-2011, 01:54 PM
If you think our recent drafts were a serious attempt at addressing our o-line, think again.

11 - Gilbert - promising, but far from a guarantee

10 - Pouncey - great pick, but should have taken another OL somewhere in the top 4 rounds. Rather, we take Worilds, Sanders, Gibson. Not good.

09 - Urbik in the 3rd. Didn't pan out. I'd argue against Ziggy in the first round. Wallace in the 2nd is gold.

08 - Hills in the 4th. Then we take Sweed in 2nd, Bruce Davis in the 3rd. Pathetic.

07 - Stephenson in the 5th. That's it.

06 - Colon in the 4th. Pretty good value pick. However, over-valued by the Steelers.

05 - Trai Essex in the 3rd. Too high for the return, but serviceable as a back-up.

That's it. So, if this is addressing the line issues then we need to replace our talent evaluators. Pouncey is the only good pick in the bunch. The remainder are now junk.





Well only one of those was in the 1st round, only one in the 2nd round. The rest were picked in the 3rd round or lower, and the 3rd rounder happens to be starting at guard for the undefeated Buffalo Bills, who are home to 2nd leading rusher in the league(he was first before D-Mac went sick on the Jets yesterday). The other two, one is a backup scrub who adds no real value in terms of high level offensive line play. And the fifth, I believe is no longer on the team, and may not even be in the league. That is not exactly what I would call a commitment to the O-line. So, if we're state facts, let's make sure we incluce them all. Don't leave out the inconvenient details.



Rockon

:applaudit:

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 01:55 PM
What you fail too grasp or admit is the majority of all draft picks do not go on to be impact players. Also it doesn't help that we consistetnly draft at the bottom. Of course some of you claim we should be trading up, but here's a little news flash it takes two to tango. It also doesn't help that other teams have an effect on how and who we draft.

You can't have it both ways. People cry about how or D-line or LB'ers are old/slow and then complain that the FO should of used those picks on the o-line instead. "Farrior, Foote, Harrison are too old and slow" and then in the same breath"WTF were they thinking drafting a lb'er?"

It sucks, but Urbik is doing exactly what we drafted him to do and that's be a starting NFL Guard. He wasn't ready for a roster spot last year and we gambled and lost trying to sneak him onto the practice squad.

And since you love to deal with ifs and buts let's not forget that if it weren't for catastrophic injuries the o-line probably wouldn't even be a topic of conversation.

I realize draft picks are a crap shoot. I'm simply stating that we haven't made a commitment through the draft to upgrade our line as you suggested. We could have drafted our back-up LBs later in the draft rather than in the 2nd & 3rd rounds. Worilds and/or Gibson were no threat to take over as a starter anytime soon. However, ANY decent OL-men would have had a legit shot to start on this team.

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 02:06 PM
I realize draft picks are a crap shoot. I'm simply stating that we haven't made a commitment through the draft to upgrade our line as you suggested. We could have drafted our back-up LBs later in the draft rather than in the 2nd & 3rd rounds. Worilds and/or Gibson were no threat to take over as a starter anytime soon. However, ANY decent OL-men would have had a legit shot to start on this team.


WTF? You acknowledge that it's a crap shoot and then in same paragraph go on to predict how the draft would have unfolded.

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 02:11 PM
Well only one of those was in the 1st round, only one in the 2nd round. The rest were picked in the 3rd round or lower, and the 3rd rounder happens to be starting at guard for the undefeated Buffalo Bills, who are home to 2nd leading rusher in the league(he was first before D-Mac went sick on the Jets yesterday). The other two, one is a backup scrub who adds no real value in terms of high level offensive line play. And the fifth, I believe is no longer on the team, and may not even be in the league. That is not exactly what I would call a commitment to the O-line. So, if we're state facts, let's make sure we incluce them all. Don't leave out the inconvenient details.



Rockon


How many first round draft pick busts are there every year?

I didn't leave out any convenient details in the last 3 years we've drafted a starting Center, possibly a starting Tackle and technically a starting guard. We gambled on Urbik and lost but to say that they haven't been addressing needs is a crock of shit.

Danny136200
09-26-2011, 02:11 PM
I agree.

People don't want to blame the golden boy. That's my opinion.

Tom Brady is not on our team though.

Danny136200
09-26-2011, 02:21 PM
it was obvious the steelers' run defense was not that great. hampton and smith were pretty much manhandled. you also have to take into account how many poor throws to wide open WRs the colts threw.

the steelers are not playing well. how ell do you think it would have gone with manning at the helm?

You're not allowed to ask this quesion. We shouldn't assume Manning would have been any better.

The problem is, Manning was not playing, so we cannot assume things, it is pretty pointless IMO. Now, we shall see what out defense is made of in Houston next week.

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 02:26 PM
WTF? You acknowledge that it's a crap shoot and then in same paragraph go on to predict how the draft would have unfolded.

Seriously? Do you just enjoy arguing?

I am saying that they aren't trying hard enough to address the o-line through the draft. Throwing a first-round pick last year, and a 2nd round this year at a putrid o-line is not commitment enough. The fact that Hills had gotten as many chances as he did is evidence enough that there weren't enough legit OL in camp to compete. That's a function of the draft.

Danny136200
09-26-2011, 02:28 PM
with no TOs i still don't see the steelers beating the ravens at all. the steelers were completely destroyed by a better team that day.

the steelers' neglect of the O-line is killing them.
The Steelers were moving the ball down the field pretty effectively in that game, but they turned the ball over too many times.
In the Colts game, we had a chance to blow this one up, but three straight turnovers lead to to them leading in the second half.

Our defense and offense will be fine; our running game will be fine, Bruce Arians will be fine. Sometimes, you guys overreact almost as badly as Warren Sapp.

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 02:30 PM
How many first round draft pick busts are there every year?

I didn't leave out any convenient details in the last 3 years we've drafted a starting Center, possibly a starting Tackle and technically a starting guard. We gambled on Urbik and lost but to say that they haven't been addressing needs is a crock of shit.

Really? If we had thrown more picks at the o-line rather than LBs our chances of finding a couple more good starters would be higher. It's like drafting pitchers in baseball - you have to assume some won't pan out, so you draft more of them expecting that a couple will. The FO hasn't done that.

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 02:32 PM
The Steelers were moving the ball down the field pretty effectively in that game, but they turned the ball over too many times.
In the Colts game, we had a chance to blow this one up, but three straight turnovers lead to to them leading in the second half.

Our defense and offense will be fine; our running game will be fine, Bruce Arians will be fine. Sometimes, you guys overreact almost as badly as Warren Sapp.

Sure. Right up to the point where they aren't. There will come a day when the team is partially blown up & re-built. I'm afraid the time may have come already.

Danny136200
09-26-2011, 02:42 PM
Sure. Right up to the point where they aren't. There will come a day when the team is partially blown up & re-built. I'm afraid the time may have come already.

No, this team's time really hasnt come yet. We have a young offensive team, and we still have playmakers on defense, which, contrary to popular belief, played extremely well last night. Of course, with every single team, there are weaknesses to the Steelers; ours is the offensive line and to a lesser degree the pass defense. Now, i agree with everybody that we need to get more pressure on the QB to create turnovers, but the fact of the matter is, we our not creating blitzes like we used to do and just sending 3 or 4 pass rushers. Do we need to get younger in the defesive line? yes, we do; Aaron smith was being pushed around alot last night, and the runs that were successful were mostly to his side. The Steelers will have a very good season and will compete for another superbowl berth.

Trust me on this one.

stiller39
09-26-2011, 02:49 PM
It sure didn't look like the D Stiller fans are used to out there in 2 o the 3 games this year. We might have only given up one drive but it was against a retired off the couch QB. The ran the ball against us (85 yards?) with rookies and replacements on their O Line too. I will say the DBs look better but the run D doesn't look the same. Maybe you give up something in the run to do a better job in the pass D.

steelax04
09-26-2011, 02:52 PM
Trust me on this one.

Are you that Nigerian banker I've been communicating with over email? :chuckle:

stiller39
09-26-2011, 03:04 PM
It sure didn't look like the D Stiller fans are used to out there in 2 o the 3 games this year. We might have only given up one drive but it was against a retired off the couch QB. The ran the ball against us (85 yards?) with rookies and replacements on their O Line too. I will say the DBs look better but the run D doesn't look the same. Maybe you give up something in the run to do a better job in the pass D.

Danny136200
09-26-2011, 03:37 PM
Are you that Nigerian banker I've been communicating with over email? :chuckle:

Yup lol

BKAnthem
09-26-2011, 03:42 PM
How many first round draft pick busts are there every year?

I didn't leave out any convenient details in the last 3 years we've drafted a starting Center, possibly a starting Tackle and technically a starting guard. We gambled on Urbik and lost but to say that they haven't been addressing needs is a crock of shit.

Funny the argument on this board seems to be the Steelers draft BPA , needs are secondary...last 2 years they took Olineman with the top 2 picks,they had been drafting OL on the cheap before that....so they are FINALLY addressing a need but to say they have been for longer than that is a crock of shit...Lets see what happens in next years draft

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 04:06 PM
Funny the argument on this board seems to be the Steelers draft BPA , needs are secondary...last 2 years they took Olineman with the top 2 picks,they had been drafting OL on the cheap before that....so they are FINALLY addressing a need but to say they have been for longer than that is a crock of shit...Lets see what happens in next years draft

You are truly daft.

tanda10506
09-26-2011, 04:14 PM
As to the original question, I don't think anybody should be blaming the defense for it being a close game, they actually played pretty well. The problem is though, that the defense is the same starting 11, only 8 months older then they were in the SB, but aren't playing like it. They did well, but even in this game we were getting ran on, and Baltimore ran all over us, I've never seen this team stop the run so poorly and get so little pressure throughout the game. To their credit they gave up one drive and shut out the Seahawks (any NFL shutout is worth mentioning) but they just don' t look the same. I keep hearing about age but a lot of these guys aren't even a year older then they were in the SB, I just don't see it being the age all of a sudden, it's usually a slower dwindling. The D is getting knocked on because it's not Steelers type D, even if they have done well the last 2 games.

Fire Arians
09-26-2011, 04:20 PM
i don't think they'd run on us as easily if hood and kiesel were the starters. smith is a problem

theplatypus
09-26-2011, 04:33 PM
10 ****ing turnovers in 3 games is the problem!

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 06:10 PM
Funny the argument on this board seems to be the Steelers draft BPA , needs are secondary...last 2 years they took Olineman with the top 2 picks,they had been drafting OL on the cheap before that....so they are FINALLY addressing a need but to say they have been for longer than that is a crock of shit...Lets see what happens in next years draft

Actually, they took 2 DLineman & 1 Olineman in the last 3 drafts #1. I just think they got fooled on a couple of picks & maybe were a little too confident that Kugler would be the answer. Good coaches (not saying Kugler is, not sure at this point) can't make gold out of crap.

steelfury02
09-26-2011, 06:26 PM
Did someone fart?

tanda10506
09-26-2011, 09:26 PM
10 ****ing turnovers in 3 games is the problem!

That combined with the O line, who is the main contributor in the turnover's are probably the biggest problem. Although it might not be the #1 problem though, we are struggling against the run. I might get a lot of disagreement on this, but it actually seems like we are covering guys better. With the exception of Taylor almost costing the game last night, he's actually been a complete shut down corner all 3 games, Gay is playing better, and Troy is back now as we seen this game. But it's all for not because we get absolutely zero pressure on the QB so far this season allowing QB's to pick and choose where to throw. If we fix the turnovers we will probably beat most teams, now how you fix that is a little more complicated, but if the defense doesn't step up to we won't beat great teams. Smith is done, period, and Heyward needs to take some snaps from Keisel.

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-26-2011, 10:03 PM
I think playtpus is having problems being able to discern the difference between saying:

a) Our defense was the cause of us only winning by 3 points (NOT what anybody is saying)

b) Our defense is showing some very large vulnerabilities that so far have not cost us much, but WILL cost us down the road when we face some elite offenses.

Somebody already pointed it out-- ranking #2 in the league in defense after facing a Manningless Colts, and a struggling Seahwaks team, is nothing to write home about. We generated zero pass rush against them and had trouble stopping the run in two of three games so far.

You can live in a world of fantasy football and only look at that #2 ranking-- or you can look deeper like SteelMusic has been trying to get you to do. We almost allowed a HUGE and embarrasing 80 TD to a rookie QB who has never touched the field! We let that rookie drive the ball down the field for 80 yards later in the game! We are getting no stops in run defense, and we are not geting off the field on 3rd downs, and we are getting no pressure in the backfield.

Those are troubling signs....and if you couple that with an offense that cannot run or throw the ball because the other team's defense IS dominating, it makes for a very bad combination for 2011....
Fantasy stats do not make a difference when you are only in week 4......

finesward
09-26-2011, 10:28 PM
I agree.

People don't want to blame the golden boy. That's my opinion.

Who Jonathan scott?

Bayz101
09-26-2011, 10:59 PM
We have two major problems with our team. Lets say our defense comes out, and makes a stop. The offense gets their hands on the ball. They drive the ball down the field and put up some points. Defense does a good job, and the offense is back on the field. Only this time, our offensive line doesn't come out with them. Ben gets less than a second to throw the ball, and is forced to make decisions. A man making decisions when he doesn't even have time to think is a man bound to make a mistake. We have a good defense. When they all play at their highest level of intensity, they stop everything. But you can't expect a defense to play at their highest level when the offense isn't on the field long enough for them to get rest...Ben is throwing great. When he gets more than .8 seconds to throw the ball, he completes it. Our offensive line is our problem. The line is effectively causing the defense to perform bad. Our OFFENSIVE line is the reason our DEFENSIVE unit to struggle. If the O-Line performs well, Ben has time to make plays. When Ben has time to make plays, we score. When we score, we pump up our defense, as seen last night. I recall them performing well after the huge TD pass to Wallace. Now I said there were two problems. The other is Mendenhall making 3 moves before he even reaches the line of scrimmage. But I can imagine if our O-Line performs well, he'd do better. Didn't you guys see what happened with our offense last night???? Ben first ran out of the pocket due to heavy pressure to try and make a play. He was hit, and he fumbled. Then once again, Scott completely misses a block (I blame bath salts) and Ben gets killed. Ben fumbles. Next time he comes out, he's scared to death. His line isn't blocking. He throws a ball too hard, and it's picked. The point is. Our offensive line is causing us to play bad, and something needs to be done.

tony hipchest
09-26-2011, 11:37 PM
i could easilly answer this question by linking about a dozen threads on this board from the 5 game loosing streak vs the dregs of the nfl in the abysmal '09 season.

but the jist of it is people became so wacky in their defense of bruce arians (whos ass was clearly on the hot seat), that anytime his offense scored only 7 or 13 points, while commiting 5 turnovers and losing the time of possession battle vs the most pourous rush defenses in the league, they would blame dick lebeaus unit for giving up 10 or 16 points (which was still leading the league in PPG allowed).

case in point- MNF game in cleveland during a 40 mph wind blizzard where arians abandoned the run and threw 50 times. according to some clowns it was all lebeaus fault the browns scored more than 13 points.

MACH1
09-26-2011, 11:47 PM
It's still happening.

tony hipchest
09-26-2011, 11:58 PM
It's still happening.

why am i not suprised?





















hater. :chuckle:


(so glad the head up ass crowd is gone)

Third Rail
09-27-2011, 12:01 AM
i could easilly answer this question by linking about a dozen threads on this board from the 5 game loosing streak vs the dregs of the nfl in the abysmal '09 season.

but the jist of it is people became so wacky in their defense of bruce arians (whos ass was clearly on the hot seat), that anytime his offense scored only 7 or 13 points, while commiting 5 turnovers and losing the time of possession battle vs the most pourous rush defenses in the league, they would blame dick lebeaus unit for giving up 10 or 16 points (which was still leading the league in PPG allowed).

case in point- MNF game in cleveland during a 40 mph wind blizzard where arians abandoned the run and threw 50 times. according to some clowns it was all lebeaus fault the browns scored more than 13 points.

I think that both sides of the ball were worthy of blame during that 5 game slump (although special teams were also a BIG contributor there). The Browns and Bengals games... yep, I blame most of those on the offense that couldn't get anything going. The Ravens game wasn't too bad, but it's tough to win with a backup QB. But the offense actually didn't do too badly against the Chiefs and the Raiders. Yes, there were turnovers, but the defense was also unable to stop Cassel and Gradkowski at the end of both of those games, and, at least at that time, neither one of them were very good QBs.

tony hipchest
09-27-2011, 12:04 AM
important to note that the lebeau bashers and blamers always thought that no player such as polamalu should be important to a single unit and that lebeau should be able to coach up ryan mundy to do the things troy was doing last night.

of course they would probably blame the colts coaches for allowing payton manning being so important to that team (unless their coach was bruce arians of course).

some peoples minds are so feeble they cant comprehend a single player transcending their position, like arians does at coaching.

oh, and theres also the crowd who thinks that dick lebeau is too old and the game has passed him by.

Bayz101
09-27-2011, 12:25 AM
Dick Lebeau is a legend, and anyone who thinks different doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. That man created most of what you see defenses playing nowadays. He is an excellent coach and I absolutely dread the day he retires. I hope he never does, that guy could probably live to 200!!! He's in better shape than I or my family and he's nearly 80!!! Go Lebeau!

Wallabeast17
09-27-2011, 10:38 AM
lol I know..It would be interesting to see just how many actually points the Defense has given up all year. My guess is around 17 or so. They rest all came from turnovers either scoring or putting the ball already in the redzone for the opposing team..