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View Full Version : OL Question, is the Talent or the coaching??


BKAnthem
09-26-2011, 05:00 PM
It seems this group is playing worse than last year, and it's basically the same personnel...... and Scott is a Kugler guy, and now Urbick is starting for the Bills...i don't know if he's playing well though....what say you all?

DanRooney
09-26-2011, 05:02 PM
It seems this group is playing worse than last year, and it's basically the same personnel...... and Scott is a Kugler guy, and now Urbick is starting for the Bills...i don't know if he's playing well though....what say you all?

Same personnel minus Flozell Adams.

tanda10506
09-26-2011, 05:18 PM
Letting Flozell go made a difference. The coaching might be bad, but blocking is blocking TO A POINT, no matter how bad the coaching is it doesn't equal to our lineman losing one on one matchups every play. Coaching makes a difference but on the line it still comes down to blocking the guy in front of you, at least for the tackles, and they aren't doing that.

Fire Arians
09-26-2011, 05:21 PM
even if flozell gets beat, it still takes a full 3 seconds to run around him lol

Rick5895
09-26-2011, 05:31 PM
When watching the OL, one thing I look for is footwork. Surprisingly Kemo is very agile and moves well, Gilbert seems to alwys take the right steps, sometimes a bit late but that is probably because he is a rookie and still learning and thinking too much. Scott on the other just doesn't move well enough to play LT. We all praised Kugler for the job he did last season, but I see a problem with the Steelers coaches, they play "thier"guys way too long, meaning they leave them in even though they aren't doing the job. Scott should see the pine the rest of the year, I think he would be fine as a backup but certainly not starter material. move Gilbert to LT. Bring someone else in to play RT, maybe the guy they just signed when Colon went down.
I have said this before, as much as talent ..continuity is important on the OL. With the injuries we are having it is impossible to get that continuity to where the players know what each other will do.

PhantomJB93
09-26-2011, 05:34 PM
Same personnel minus Flozell Adams.

But the thing is Flozell arguably played better last year than pretty much any Olineman we've had since Faneca...

It's definitely not coaching, Jonathan Scott and Doug Legursky are players that should be career backups, yet are critical components of our Oline.

Pouncey, Gilbert, and Kemo are fine, and I think Foster can man down another guard position in the short term, but we really need a tackle.

Atlanta Dan
09-26-2011, 05:35 PM
It's talent - IMO Kugler is a better coach than his predecessor

They were not All-Pros and injuries are part of the game, but the Steelers caught 2 bad breaks by Starks eating his way out of a job and Colon being lost for the season in week one

However, if Adams would have been signed for another year the Steelers could have put Colon at RG, which is a better fit for him and then could try to see if Gilbert could be thrown into the deep end at LT (which they still may do if they decide to put Essex at RT).

Of course to bring Adams back woudl have required finding $5 million to cut somewhere else, and Aaron Smith apparently has compromising photos of Tomlin and Colbert that made him untouchable (not just this year but not putting him on IR in 2010) even though he has broken down and can no longer play. Smith is exhibit #1 (Farrior may be turning into exhibit #1A) of the danger of holding on to players for old times sake

Bottom line is the Steelers neglected drafting on the OL for years and it has caught up with them

Steeldude
09-26-2011, 05:47 PM
it's both talent and coaching.

how can you not tell scott to bend? he was totally upright on seemingly every play

BengalDestroyer
09-26-2011, 06:28 PM
I'm not a fan of Kugler or Scott or the cut of Starks or Ubrick. Ubrick was still young enough to come around. Scott has shown NOTHING close to why he's even on the roster let alone a starter... Improve this line a little bit and we're soooo much more better.

steelfury02
09-26-2011, 07:34 PM
Don't worry - they'll fix it in time for Batch and/or Dixon to come in

SteeleReign
09-26-2011, 07:35 PM
It's talent - IMO Kugler is a better coach than his predecessor

They were not All-Pros and injuries are part of the game, but the Steelers caught 2 bad breaks by Starks eating his way out of a job and Colon being lost for the season in week one

However, if Adams would have been signed for another year the Steelers could have put Colon at RG, which is a better fit for him and then could try to see if Gilbert could be thrown into the deep end at LT (which they still may do if they decide to put Essex at RT).

Of course to bring Adams back woudl have required finding $5 million to cut somewhere else, and Aaron Smith apparently has compromising photos of Tomlin and Colbert that made him untouchable (not just this year but not putting him on IR in 2010) even though he has broken down and can no longer play. Smith is exhibit #1 (Farrior may be turning into exhibit #1A) of the danger of holding on to players for old times sake
Bottom line is the Steelers neglected drafting on the OL for years and it has caught up with them

So true. Not sure when the philosophy changed - maybe when Tomlin came aboard? The modus operandi for years was that the Steelers didn't keep players past their prime with big contracts. Now, the change in philosophy has begun to wear this team down to a nub.

Fire Arians
09-26-2011, 07:39 PM
coaching could help. one of the things that has been scratching my head since week 1 was why chris scott made the team and hills didn't, and why ramon foster is on the bench for legursky.

god forbid if we need chris scott to ever play. he has looked extremely bad in every position he's played so far. everytime chris scott is mentioned I wonder why the hell did we cut hills. did he insult tomlin's grandma or something?

Atlanta Dan
09-26-2011, 07:44 PM
So true. Not sure when the philosophy changed - maybe when Tomlin came aboard? The modus operandi for years was that the Steelers didn't keep players past their prime with big contracts. Now, the change in philosophy has begun to wear this team down to a nub.

This crew has won two Super Bowls and played in three, which makes it a little harder to say goodbye - you know you have won it all with them and hope to squeeze out another title

Same thing happened with the 70s Steelers

tony hipchest
09-26-2011, 08:21 PM
This crew has won two Super Bowls and played in three, which makes it a little harder to say goodbye - you know you have won it all with them and hope to squeeze out another title

Same thing happened with the 70s Steelerstomlin was/still is a very young coach. perhaps he has seemingly hung on to vets james, aaron, and hines as a security blanket and insurance for his success. its entirely likely him and the rooneys feel they owe them the dignity to ride off into the sunset.

i know thats not how the cut throat nfl works, but it is kinda how the rooneys operate.

there arent 3 veterans who have more control of the lockerroom than smith, ward, and farrior. if they are on board with tomlin, the entire team is. if they arent, the teams isnt.

teh reason they seem to have a golden ticket could be the exact same reason he sent porter and faneca packing. they were too strong of personalities and clubhouse presenses, that they would not allow him to establish his own identity with the team.

just a theory.

as for the 0-line, i think its scouting and talent. 3rd and 4th round linemen should be able to make this team w/o being cut in favor of udfa's and 6th-7th rounders.

Atlanta Dan
09-26-2011, 08:45 PM
tomlin was/still is a very young coach. perhaps he has seemingly hung on to vets james, aaron, and hines as a security blanket and insurance for his success. its entirely likely him and the rooneys feel they owe them the dignity to ride off into the sunset.

i know thats not how the cut throat nfl works, but it is kinda how the rooneys operate.

there arent 3 veterans who have more control of the lockerroom than smith, ward, and farrior. if they are on board with tomlin, the entire team is. if they arent, the teams isnt.


Maybe - but IMO this team belongs to Tomlin and Ben now (second oldest player on the offense). Tomlin has coached them to 2 Super Bowls and Ben appears to have matured, although he has been as careless with the ball as anytime since 2006

At some point you cannot afford to play vets in decline even if you have to pay them.. Smith is staying on the field and getting blown up - the coaches simply may be shocked he cannot play anymore. OTOH Farrior is being yanked for Foote - the coaches clearly see a problem there

The schedule is too soft for a 2006 style early season crack-up but my guess is there is going to be a significant reassessment after what i sense is going to be a beat down in Houston

tanda10506
09-26-2011, 08:46 PM
it's both talent and coaching.

how can you not tell scott to bend? he was totally upright on seemingly every play

Maybe he is telling him and it's not happening. You learn in pop warner how to bend and get a good stance and approach, if your in the NFL and still don't know that then have a seat.

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-26-2011, 11:49 PM
So true. Not sure when the philosophy changed - maybe when Tomlin came aboard? The modus operandi for years was that the Steelers didn't keep players past their prime with big contracts. Now, the change in philosophy has begun to wear this team down to a nub.


I have been saying this for a while, and it is NOT Tomlin. The ownership of the Steelers has changed, and young Mr. Rooney still needs to learn what the elder statesman already knows- the best NFL teams, year in and year out, are the ones that build themselves using young talent.

The teams that depend on signing big names, are usually doing so at the expense of their future.

We gave Big Ben ($100+ million), James Harrison ($57 million), Polamalu, Woodley, Timmons, and I*ke big contracts, whereas in past years, we would have likely let some of those guys walk.

In doing so-- we have mortgaged our future to a degree. The moves you make now, don't affect you until three or four years down the road when the birds come home to roost.

One can argue that the point of the NFL is to win championships, and if you have a championship-caliber team NOW, you are better off making a gamble and keeping that winning formula for as long as you can, even if it means a rebuilding phase later.

But that is a point for another discussiion.

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-26-2011, 11:52 PM
The schedule is too soft for a 2006 style early season crack-up but my guess is there is going to be a significant reassessment after what i sense is going to be a beat down in Houston

Ayah...I would love to disagree, but I have no ammunition to fight that fight. I can only hope this team, which tends to play down to the level of the competition, will also play up to the better teams they face this year.

If they play like they did against Baltimore and Indy, this is going to get U-G-L-Y....