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View Full Version : Tomlin: Unwavering or Stubborn?


dcsteel5804
09-27-2011, 06:35 PM
I just got done watching the Mike Tomlin interview and of course, the subject that everyone was chomping at the bit for was the left tackle position and, more specifically, Jonathan Scott. Tomlin made it perfectly clear, Jonathan Scott will be our starting left tackle if he is healthy. He did mention that they may bring someone in, depending on the overall health situation on the offensive line, however, Scott will get the nod if he's ready to go.

Now, here comes the point of this thread: is this stance that Tomlin takes a show of unwavering faith in his team, or a blatant show of stubbornness. At this juncture, I'm not completely sure. I can see from a coaching point of view, you don't want to publicly throw your guys under the bus, no matter how bad they are. This builds a level of trust between the coach and the player who may be under-performing, and the rest of the locker room. If the players don't trust you, they don't respect you and definitely won't play their hearts out for you.

On the other hand, it could be seen as being stubborn. Its very obvious to most of us Steelers fans that J. Scott is horrible. Week in and week out, he is beat like he stole something, and its been for over the length of an entire season. Its not changing, he's really not getting any better. I'm not taking a shot at the guy, but it is what it is, he's not an NFL starter. Not only that, but he's the guy who's supposed to be protecting our 100M dollar quarterback's blind side. Why not at least acknowledge that its an area that could use some improvement? Why not look at a potential upgrade at the position? If you talk about change it might inspire Scott to play harder.

In my opinion, I really don't think its Tomlin's fault. It really comes down to the front office and the guys they put on the field for Tomlin to coach and mold into a team. At this point in the season, Tomlin is going about the business of trying to mold a championship caliber team with the stuff that he has been handed. The fact that he has been handed mud at the tackle positions is not his fault.

So, in conclusion, while writing this thread, I've come to the conclusion that Tomlin is being a good head coach. He's thinking of what is best for the team and the locker room. What do you guys think?

SteelJones
09-27-2011, 06:41 PM
dcsteel,

I think that your assessment is right on. Tomlin is a good head coach and he does an excellent job at keeping these guys motivated. Like you said, he can't throw a guy under the bus and risk losing his team. Scott is not the answer and I expect the Steelers to start giving this guy help in all obvious passing situations from here on out until they can rectify this situation through the draft next year.

Go Steelers!

FanSince72
09-27-2011, 07:39 PM
Or it could be that Tomlin -- the guy who works with Scott every day and knows him better than anyone here possibly could -- sees something in him and knows that with enough reps and practice, he will become a solid left tackle.

But then Tomlin's just the coach of the Steelers, and not a poster on a message board, so what could he know?

steelfury02
09-27-2011, 07:58 PM
I'll officially give Scott the benefit of the doubt and some breathing room to rectify the situation - BUT - it better start happening this Sunday @ Houston. I applaud Tomlin for not throwing him under the bus - it is a classy move. I'm sure he'll have a talk with Kugler and the young man - he was able to do enough to help us get to the show last season so ya know he has that thing going for him I guess . . .

Here's to the young man improving, because as it seems - there won't be any changes so let's just roll with it baby:drink:

DanRooney
09-27-2011, 08:08 PM
Or it could be that Tomlin -- the guy who works with Scott every day and knows him better than anyone here possibly could -- sees something in him and knows that with enough reps and practice, he will become a solid left tackle.

But then Tomlin's just the coach of the Steelers, and not a poster on a message board, so what could he know?

Right...what do we know? We just saw one of the worst performances by a left tackle in the modern era of the NFL. But since Coach Tomlin said he's the starter we must all be wrong. Secretly Tomlin knows that J. Scott is better than Jake Long and Joe Thomas.

Come on dude. He's not going to throw any player under the bus like that. Not because media wants to hear it. What did you expect him to say? "Jonathan Scott is the worst starting left tackle ever and we're pursuing Flozell as we speak?" We know that Tomlin is absolutely infuriated by his performance and he probably heard an earful right after the game. I'm sure he sent the same sentiments toward Kugler.

Or Tomlin probably realizes we don't have any other options because of the lack of cap space and knows that we're just going to have to go with the cards dealt.

FanSince72
09-27-2011, 08:33 PM
Right...what do we know? We just saw one of the worst performances by a left tackle in the modern era of the NFL. But since Coach Tomlin said he's the starter we must all be wrong. Secretly Tomlin knows that J. Scott is better than Jake Long and Joe Thomas.

Come on dude. He's not going to throw any player under the bus like that. Not because media wants to hear it. What did you expect him to say? "Jonathan Scott is the worst starting left tackle ever and we're pursuing Flozell as we speak?" We know that Tomlin is absolutely infuriated by his performance and he probably heard an earful right after the game. I'm sure he sent the same sentiments toward Kugler.

Or Tomlin probably realizes we don't have any other options because of the lack of cap space and knows that we're just going to have to go with the cards dealt.

Could be.

I'm not saying that you're 100% wrong, but by the same token the league is filled with players who looked like crap when they first started and eventually became pretty good.

Look at Eli Manning.
During his first season were there more than six people who thought he'd be anywhere near decent (never mind "good") as a QB?

Who knows?
You may be right and Scott may be a complete bust.
But we've only played three games and two of them have been against some pretty tough Defenses, so I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt and let's see where it goes from here.

Atlanta Dan
09-27-2011, 08:37 PM
Ed.B. of the P-G covers the team for a living and usually has a pretty good read on the pulse of the team

Ed's thoughts on the OL and sitting players

You can't just "fix" it, especially at this point. You no longer can build a perfect team and keep it together for a decade. The Steelers have done a good job of keeping a good team together for a long time. In order to do that, you have to be smart, work the salary cap and get lucky. You fix one area in this era, another drops off. That's the system....

Benching veterans carries with it many landmines, especially if you do it too soon or for reasons that are not real clear. I mentioned the benching of Kordell Stewart above. Another was the benching of Ike Taylor in 2006 when Bill Cowher seemed to be making him a scapegoat for all that went wrong in the coach's final season. I'm not saying you don't do it, but you have to do it the right way and at the right time or you could lose your team. On the other hand, if you don't give your team the best chance to win by playing the best players, you can lose it also.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers

Tomlin has been to the playoffs 3 out of 4 years, made two Super Bowls, and has a Lombardi - he appears to have a clue as to how to win in the NFL

FanSince72
09-27-2011, 08:43 PM
Ed.B. of the P-G covers the team for a living and usually has a pretty good read on the pulse of the team

Ed's thoughts on the OL and sitting players

You can't just "fix" it, especially at this point. You no longer can build a perfect team and keep it together for a decade. The Steelers have done a good job of keeping a good team together for a long time. In order to do that, you have to be smart, work the salary cap and get lucky. You fix one area in this era, another drops off. That's the system....

Benching veterans carries with it many landmines, especially if you do it too soon or for reasons that are not real clear. I mentioned the benching of Kordell Stewart above. Another was the benching of Ike Taylor in 2006 when Bill Cowher seemed to be making him a scapegoat for all that went wrong in the coach's final season. I'm not saying you don't do it, but you have to do it the right way and at the right time or you could lose your team. On the other hand, if you don't give your team the best chance to win by playing the best players, you can lose it also.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers

Tomlin has been to the playoffs 3 out of 4 years, made two Super Bowls, and has a Lombardi - he appears to have a clue as to how to win in the NFL


Exactly!

Now can we all just take a breath and relax?

tony hipchest
09-27-2011, 09:08 PM
bouchette is spot on. its a zero-sum game. sure we have the oldest defense (which is top 5 on a yearly basis) but our offense is young. our oldest offensive players are ward :old: and then ben (who isnt even 30).

to give to one side is to take from the other.

sure we have neglected the o-line, but its hard to argue with the firepower our 1st round skill position players have produced (ben, miller, holmes, mendenhall). i still dont see how anyone can say timmons, woodley, hood, heyward, and pouncey are bad picks.

tomlin has already cut the 2X franchise tag o-lineman, and told the special teams captain his services were no longer needed. he also let flozell walk, and cut our clutch kicker last season.

what type of message does it send if he knee jerks after the 1st game of the season and decides to bench farrior, hines, and smith? hell some people wanna bench foote, all experienced cb's, and the starting running back as well.

if people would stop and smell the roses, they might notice the team slowly start to metamorphisize and see that some of the changes they are clamouring for are already slowly taking place.

patience wins championships while jerry jones and daniel snyder rush in.

tanda10506
09-28-2011, 01:19 AM
Classy move by Tomlin, I like how he pubicly handled that, but we cant start Scott at LT all season and win. He is that bad, I dont know how anybody can give him a break after these last 3 games. I have never seen any OL get beat around and manhandled that bad, ever. We need Flozell. We need to at least put Gilbert at LT and Scott at RT so at least Ben can see the guy who is about to hit him and hang on to the ball.

tony hipchest
09-28-2011, 02:18 AM
We need to at least put Gilbert at LT and Scott at RT so at least Ben can see the guy who is about to hit him and hang on to the ball.

people keep saying this.

would you rather see a loose ball bouncing around on the turf, or bens head?

they wrote a book and made a movie about michael oher, called "blindside".

he still hasnt been able to master the position.

what makes you think a2nd round rookie with absolutely no practice at the position with nfl starters, and who admittedly loafed his way through the 1st coupla weeks of camp, can do better?

effyou515
09-28-2011, 05:36 AM
seems like the Steelers start off slow.

here is to a lot of ugly wins this season:toast:

Fire Haley
09-28-2011, 07:55 AM
Stubborn and arrogant - Tomlin press conference - "Make no mistake, we intend to prepare with the men that we have here," Tomlin said Tuesday. "Those will be the guys that will help us win this football game. Anyone we add will be simply for the purposes of practice or numbers."

dcsteel5804
09-28-2011, 09:38 AM
Thanks everyone for the great discussion. It seems that some folks defend J. Scott in the name of "being a good Steelers fan", while others feel like me, he sucks. Again, I'm not taking any personal shots at the guy, I just don't think he's an NFL caliber tackle and has no business starting.

Most people feel like Tomlin is doing the right thing by not publicly addressing the issue and sticking behind the guy that he deemed to be the starter from the beginning of the year. A class move for sure, but somewhat hollow because we all know that he knows how bad the situation is.

Allow me to put a different spin on it: What if all this class is actually hurting the team? I mean, every coach says "We'll put the best 11 on the field". Obviously, J Scott would not be included in that group of 11 on any NFL roster, not even ours, yet he starts. Is Tomlin hurting the team by not trying to improve it in the name of "Having a players back" or "Being a players coach"? My opinion is that if you can improve your chances of winning by putting a better player on the field who's not going to consistently force Ben to look like a drunken buffoon trying to dodge traffic, you should do it. Make no mistakes about it, if Ben goes down, the season is over. He needs more protection and putting a better player on the field should be the teams top priority.

I know left tackles don't go on trees, but in my humble opinion, we may have better players already on our roster (Gilbert, Essex) and potentially better players not signed (Starks, Adams). What do you guys think?

Fire Haley
09-28-2011, 09:46 AM
"Marcus Gilbert will be at right tackle. We are comfortable with what he is doing and with Trai Essex lining up on the left side, and what he is capable of doing on the left side of our offensive line. We have played a lot of football with Trai in the past, and he has generally been above the line, and that is what we anticipate him playing."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_759037.html#ixzz1ZFp4stCk

steelfury02
09-28-2011, 09:53 AM
I think you have boiled it down nicely

As Steelers fans - we applaud Tomlin for not throwing him under the bus, can give Scott somewhat of a pass because we made it to the show last year and have won twice in a row - BUT

We realize that there is a decent chance that at the current rate Ben's season could be in jeopardy and something needs to be rectified at the blindside.

Now - we can move things around and put Essex in there but I think Ed and Tomlin have told us that "the ship has sailed" on Starks and Adams and we are going to compete with the guys that are already in house.

We need to hope that Scott is going to improve, Essex comes in instead, or we see Miller/Ward staying in more often for extra protection.

As Tomlin has said "This is the bed we made and now we are going to lay in it."

Overall - I don't think as fans we are going to get the perfect situation we want (and that means a complete upgrade at the blindside) so eventually, we gotta hope the Ws keep coming and just roll with it. And yea - if Ben is seriously injured, I'm sure we'll have a season full of P'offed comments and what if this and what if that. Gotta hope the coaching staff gets them ready to meet this challenge and the o-line has some consistency and chance to get some chemistry.

I'll go back to last season - even though we had Pouncey and Adams - our line was pretty dang shakey and got very, very good towards the end (i.e. - ground and pounded the hell out of the Jets in AFC champ game) THAT is where our goal should be. If we can get anywhere near that level we should be in good shape - at least good enough to get some respect for the threat of the run

tunes4life
09-28-2011, 10:04 AM
Don't forget gents, Tomlin doesn't have much of a choice. We are out of money for another OL. We couldn't afford Adams or Starks now if we wanted to.

MoneyMikeWallace
09-28-2011, 11:35 AM
Why can't they switch Gilbert to LT and Scott to RT? This would at least usually match up Scott with the weaker DE or OLB and give Ben a chance to see the rush coming instead of getting blindsided.

wera176
09-28-2011, 12:30 PM
What do you expect him to say to the press? There is little that can be done this week regarding player signings in time for Houston, so he should throw those that has to play under the bus? Say "Yeah, he sucks and we are going to replace him as soon as we can?" That'd be smart and would sure motivate those guys to protect Ben...

We have no idea what, or what not, the FO is working on.

Steel4ever95
09-28-2011, 12:48 PM
I'll go back to last season - even though we had Pouncey and Adams - our line was pretty dang shakey and got very, very good towards the end (i.e. - ground and pounded the hell out of the Jets in AFC champ game) THAT is where our goal should be. If we can get anywhere near that level we should be in good shape - at least good enough to get some respect for the threat of the run

Very very true on last year with the line coming together at the end of the year. Its only been three games and I'm trying hard to hold out hope that the line will pan out. I'm hoping they step up quick though that way Ben has time to at least find his first option in a passing play. Does Scott deserve another chance, probably cause Freeney is a monster to contain, and if the line is to develop any consistency they do not need the LT spot to be a revolving door. I really hope the line in general start to gel by the time Ravens come to town, or else it could be a very long day for Ben.

Steelersfan87
09-28-2011, 01:48 PM
people keep saying this.

would you rather see a loose ball bouncing around on the turf, or bens head?

they wrote a book and made a movie about michael oher, called "blindside".

he still hasnt been able to master the position.

what makes you think a2nd round rookie with absolutely no practice at the position with nfl starters, and who admittedly loafed his way through the 1st coupla weeks of camp, can do better?

Gilbert played the position in college, practiced there almost exclusively in training camp, and fulfilled that role predominantly in the preseason. He also looked more natural to my eyes at LT.

BKAnthem
09-28-2011, 01:58 PM
people keep saying this.

would you rather see a loose ball bouncing around on the turf, or bens head?

they wrote a book and made a movie about michael oher, called "blindside".

he still hasnt been able to master the position.

what makes you think a2nd round rookie with absolutely no practice at the position with nfl starters, and who admittedly loafed his way through the 1st coupla weeks of camp, can do better?

He practiced at the position with NFL starters (some of the best in the NFL) all through camp ....and Played pre-season at LT some.. ....... he's gonna do worse than Scott?