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View Full Version : Having Serious Doubts About Tomlin


3rdandlong
10-03-2011, 11:09 AM
First of all, Tomlin is nit responsible for everything that is wrong with this team. The offensive line is composed of piss poor players. There's not much you can do to be successful with that. It also looks that the defense is getting old and the talent is eroding. But there are things that a decent coach shouodnhave obviously done.

For over a year it has been apparent that Redman is better than Mendenhall. And it took an injury for Redman to get in the game. If Redman starts against Tennessee, no one is going to doubt that Redman is better than Mendenhall Also, he needed to step in a long ago and tell Arians to stop spreading it out on 3rd down with no one in the backfield to protect Ben. He always gets sacked. Some of our offensive problems could be corrected by doing a few simple things, but Tomlin hasn't changed it.

It looks like Tomlin is more a product of Kevin Colbert and the scouting departments good drafts than anything else. I wouldn't be disappointed if Tomlin was actually fired after this season, but he won't be.

Kanata-Steeler
10-03-2011, 11:39 AM
Tomlin is the head coach, therefore he IS always, and ultimately responsible.
err umm, unless you're Jerry Jones who always meddles with his team/Coaches. ;)

Tomlins experience has mostly been with handling Defense's, not "O",s
The thing is, we already have one of the best Defensive coaches in the league, namely LeBeau.
Tomlin's claim to fame has primarily been in Defensive-only experience.
We need a balance, ie, an Offensive-style head coach would have been better, and if that would have been so, then Ariens would have been fired, or strongly-advised,... years ago.

Tomlin's a good coach, the potential is there, but I can't help but think that becuase Tomlin has no experience in creating and building a great Offense, that now it's really beginning to show, in how Ben and Ariens call those plays. ?

Since we're obviously NOT gonna get rid of Ariens anytime soon,
then Tomlin has to somehow Offensively manage this great Steelers' team. Tomlin has to become an Offensive mastermind coach, and he has to do it NOW ! .
In fact, Tomlin has no choice.

Kingmagyar
10-03-2011, 12:21 PM
My two major gripes about Tomlin is he always challenges the most obvious plays that are not in his favor and he defers the kickoff at away games giving the opponet a chance to score first and be up at home. Wouldn't it be better to give your own offense a chance to score first and put the pressure on the other team?

Also of note is the team seems to still make the same mistakes over and over again in terms of personal fouls and mental mistakes. Showing Tomlin's inability to demand discipline and perfection from his players. The running & screen plays Houston ran on us were executed to perfection. Maybe as the team gets younger Tomlin can become the hard coach he was known to be in Tampa and Minnesota.

Fire Arians
10-03-2011, 12:32 PM
the guy is slowly getting onto my shit list.

- if he refuses to can arians, I'm going to say he's become part of the problem with our offense
- every time things go bad offensively or defensively, he always has this deer-in-headlights look that is reminiscent of kordell stewart. i've yet to see him gather the team together and take charge.
- he's called a 'player's coach', doesn't a players coach get the team fired up before a game? this team outside of troy P doesn't look fired up one bit.
- he shit the bed from the beginning of the season. i said from the start, if this team cannot get fired up to play baltimore, then this season is going to be a wash. looks like i was correct so far

Buddha Bus
10-03-2011, 12:39 PM
I am by no means calling for Mike Tomlin's head, but he does have a tendency to look like a "deer-in-the-headlights" at times as FA has pointed out. He needs to do SOMETHING to fire this team up. I'm tired of the same old coach-speak from him week after week talking about "it's on the tape" and "we acknowledge our failures and will move forward".

What about trying to pump up an obviously disinterested and unprepared football team on the sidelines with some fire and brimstone? Maybe bench a few more guys and send the message that these flat performances are unacceptable and people will be held accountable going forward.

I also may be on the "Tomlin's head on a pike" bandwagon if he doesn't fire Arians after this season. Enough is enough already.

StainlessStill
10-03-2011, 01:01 PM
the guy is slowly getting onto my shit list.

- if he refuses to can arians, I'm going to say he's become part of the problem with our offense
- every time things go bad offensively or defensively, he always has this deer-in-headlights look that is reminiscent of kordell stewart. i've yet to see him gather the team together and take charge.
- he's called a 'player's coach', doesn't a players coach get the team fired up before a game? this team outside of troy P doesn't look fired up one bit.
- he shit the bed from the beginning of the season. i said from the start, if this team cannot get fired up to play baltimore, then this season is going to be a wash. looks like i was correct so far

Tomlin takes part in the "Dungy" way. Dungy never believed in getting in the face of grown men and yelling. Being a leader is more than yelling but damn, I've love to see SOME emotion from Tomlin. Reminds me of Cowher in 2006. Lifeless.

Buddha Bus
10-03-2011, 01:05 PM
Tomlin takes part in the "Dungy" way. Dungy never believed in getting in the face of grown men and yelling. Being a leader is more than yelling but damn, I've love to see SOME emotion from Tomlin. Reminds me of Cowher in 2006. Lifeless.

Yeah, I don't agree with getting into grown men's faces too much either, but in the situation this team's in, it seems appropriate to exercise that muscle a little. The fact that he doesn't do it normally should carry some extra weight behind it when he does.

It doesn't even have to be yelling at them. Just try to show SOME emotion on the sidelines and try to pump these guys up with some positive reinforcement and energy.

plenewken
10-03-2011, 01:08 PM
the guy is slowly getting onto my shit list.

- if he refuses to can arians, I'm going to say he's become part of the problem with our offense
- every time things go bad offensively or defensively, he always has this deer-in-headlights look that is reminiscent of kordell stewart. i've yet to see him gather the team together and take charge.
- he's called a 'player's coach', doesn't a players coach get the team fired up before a game? this team outside of troy P doesn't look fired up one bit.
- he shit the bed from the beginning of the season. i said from the start, if this team cannot get fired up to play baltimore, then this season is going to be a wash. looks like i was correct so far

I'm starting to believe that the good results the Steelers have had since 2007 have very little to do with Tomlin and much more to do with the legacy Cowher left.
This team plays without pride and discipline.
By the way, who the f*** are the team captains? I don't see anybody firing up the players.

OX1947
10-03-2011, 01:11 PM
The reason why Cowher was "lifeless" in 2006 was because he had run his time and his guys tuned him out, especially Big Ben. No coach is immune to it.

desertsteel
10-03-2011, 01:14 PM
Boys and girls this is the NFL... or as Rod Woodson would say (repeatedly) the National Football League. The Steelers aren't going to win every game or even close. Heck the year we went 15-1 we got ousted in the playoffs. Tomlin is 39 years old and has gone to two Super Bowls and won one. His defense is OLD and his O-line is patchwork. I'll take Tomlin over Cowher any day, and I liked Cowher a lot.

desertsteel
10-03-2011, 01:15 PM
The reason why Cowher was "lifeless" in 2006 was because he had run his time and his guys tuned him out, especially Big Ben. No coach is immune to it.

Let's not forget that his wife was very ill also.

Buddha Bus
10-03-2011, 01:15 PM
By the way, who the f*** are the team captains? I don't see anybody firing up the players.



http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfpjvnzFAd1qcbo9lo1_500.jpg


http://cdn.gunaxin.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Kanagroo.jpg


http://www.childfamilycenter.org/stubing.jpg


:hunch:


I'm starting to believe it's this guy and we're heading straight for an uncharted desert isle. :chuckle:


http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2009/04/custom_1239216384157_skipper.jpg

Sixburgher
10-03-2011, 01:16 PM
I'm starting to believe that the good results the Steelers have had since 2007 have very little to do with Tomlin and much more to do with the legacy Cowher left.

Yeah, it's that easy. As long as you have the talent on the roster, any schmuck can win as a NFL head coach. Just ask the Chargers.

If it were that easy, these guys wouldn't make seven figures.

casteeler
10-03-2011, 01:29 PM
I love Tomlin's response to every loss. "we got to get better" but Every week is the same problem and this has been the case for 2 yrs, I guess the coaching staff will ignore the offensive line woes and hope that some film and a couple days of padless practice will fix the issue. I listened to alot say if Ben doesn't hold on to the ball and gets it out quickly then we'll be fine but Ben doesn't have 2 seconds to throw the ball since every passing down is a jailbreak.Replace someone please this has gone on long enough

Third Rail
10-03-2011, 02:53 PM
I never listen to Tomlin's press conferences anymore, but I'm guessing this last one contained the same amount of jargon that we're typical of hearing from Tomlin.

Stuff like:

"We acknowledge that we need to get better"

...but will do nothing to actually accomplish that.

"We simply weren't prepared"

Oh, no shit! Hey, here's an idea coach. Maybe you should start doing your job and MAKE SURE they're prepared. A coach's #1 job is to make sure his team is ready to play on game day. If they were prepared, then just own up and tell people that they f***ing suck.

"We're about to unleash hell..."

...on our loving fanbase.

"Ben needs to get rid of the ball faster"

...so right now were working on plays in which he throws it through Pouncey's legs immediately after he's handed the ball under center.

Some heads are going to roll

...so we'll cut some guy on the practice squad who never had a snowball's chance in hell of seeing game time.



Seriously, Tomlin is overmatched and always has been. His first season fared pretty well because the Steelers had the easiest schedule that year and everyone knew it. Yes, his team won a Super Bowl, but the O-Line play was still shit, the running game was nonexistent at times... I credit Ben and the defense (thus, LeBeau) more for that win than Tomlin. And since then? The team collapsed in 2009, we made it to a Super Bowl in 2010 but lost (and nearly choked in two playoff games) and we might be looking at a losing season now. And all of that can be pinned on Tomlin's (and I guess the FO's) flat-out refusal to fix the O-Line issues that have plagued the team for years.

ggoldman
10-03-2011, 03:25 PM
Its not like they lost to the NFL's worst teams (like in 2009). They have lost ON THE ROAD to two probable playoff teams, who were both favored to win

Third Rail
10-03-2011, 03:32 PM
True... but they got MASSACRED by one of them and would have pretty much been leveled by the other one if not for penalties.

lipps83
10-03-2011, 03:49 PM
I am going to give Tomlin a slight pass on this one. He isn't the one that signs the guys that play on this team. Sure, he has some input, but it is not his final say. They have a salary cap to be within.

Does the line suck? Yeah. Many of you forget though that the team has brought in players to play on the line. Pretty much all but one have not panned out. That is not Tomlin's fault.

I believe too that Arians is still here because Ben cried for him to stay. That may not be the case completely but Ben was pretty vocal about Bruce staying at the end of 2009 when Tomlin was public about having to make a decision after Art voiced his disapproval. Upset starting QB or an OC that just may wake-up? I would give the OC another shot instead of shitting all over my starting QB too, as much as I have hated Bruce. And they did make the SB last year, so no change on the OC side again.

Soooooooo....you can only work with what you've got.

Third Rail
10-03-2011, 03:54 PM
I don't doubt that Ben pleaded with the FO and Tomlin for them to keep Arians. But they shouldn't have listened. If Ben didn't like it, tough shit. It's their call, not his.

Something tells me Ben would have gotten over it if, he was looking at a 35-40 TD season capped off with a Lombardi at the end of 2010.

Whodis
10-03-2011, 04:07 PM
"We're far from perfect"

lipps83
10-03-2011, 04:09 PM
I don't doubt that Ben pleaded with the FO and Tomlin for them to keep Arians. But they shouldn't have listened. If Ben didn't like it, tough shit. It's their call, not his.

Something tells me Ben would have gotten over it if, he was looking at a 35-40 TD season capped off with a Lombardi at the end of 2010.

I agree that Ben would have gotten over it. I hate to say this because Ben is our QB, the guy is athletic no doubt, but he is one of the duller butter knives in the drawer.

Sixburgher
10-03-2011, 04:10 PM
I don't doubt that Ben pleaded with the FO and Tomlin for them to keep Arians. But they shouldn't have listened. If Ben didn't like it, tough shit. It's their call, not his.

Something tells me Ben would have gotten over it if, he was looking at a 35-40 TD season capped off with a Lombardi at the end of 2010.

So a different offensive coordinator would have prevented the three turnovers last February? :rolleyes:

Third Rail
10-03-2011, 04:56 PM
So a different offensive coordinator would have prevented the three turnovers last February? :rolleyes:

Maybe, maybe not. But that first turnover (the pick-six) was the result of horrible O-Line play. Had that one not happened, the entire game might have turned out differently.

It's no use crying over spilled milk now, but the point is, there are much better offensive coordinators and O-Line coaches out there than the ignorant assholes we've got.

Atlanta Dan
10-03-2011, 05:29 PM
Replace someone please this has gone on long enough

Easier said than done

IMO there is nobody to step up for the OL

Foote is no solution for the Farrior problem and Sylvester must not be ready:noidea:

Do not see sitting Woodley, although he has been horrible

Untuil Keisel returns A. Smith stays (unless his annual season ending injury in October has occurred with whatever put Smith in a walking boot yesteday) - hard to see Hood and Heyward as the 2 starting ends

A logical demotion might be Ward, but Tomlin may figure Hines would not go quietly and make a bad situation worse

One possibiity - look for plenty of Redman (Mendenhall is hurt and Moore apparently also has decided to start wearing a walking boot)

Early season crucial game on Sunday - need all hands on deck for Tennessee

Atlanta Dan
10-03-2011, 05:35 PM
Let's not forget that his wife was very ill also.

Maybe sick of Cowher?

His wife, rest her soul, apparently as diagnosed in late 2009/early 2010 with the inoperable melanoma

She moved to Raleigh and said Cowher was welcome to join her before the 2006 season, which seemed to indicate some problems

Bottom line was Cowher was not hanging aroiund unless he became one of the top paid coaches in the game aftrer 2005 - can't say Steelers would have done any better if he was still around (4 playoff teams in his last 9 seasons)

stb_steeler
10-03-2011, 05:36 PM
The reason why Cowher was "lifeless" in 2006 was because he had run his time and his guys tuned him out, especially Big Ben. No coach is immune to it.

I wish Cowher was still our coach

stb_steeler
10-03-2011, 05:44 PM
Ever wonder what the team would have been like if Wiz got the HC job?

Atlanta Dan
10-03-2011, 05:47 PM
I wish Cowher was still our coach

Because he would have done better than Tomlin from 2007 - 2010?

Tomlin's teams have won as many AFC Championships and Super Bowls in 4 seasons as Cowher's teams did from 1992 - 2006

Cowher was a very good coach but he was ready to move on - Joe Gibbs and Bill walsh had a theory that in the NFL wahtever you accomplish is going to occur in no more than 10 years from when you start - Coweher did well to have the late career success when Ben arrived in 2004 but Cowher was ready to step down once he finally won it all.

Tomlin screwed up 2009, but let's not forget 1998, 1999, 2003 and 2006 as some awful showings by Cowher's teams, not to mention a 1-4 record in AFC championship games at home

Sixburgher
10-03-2011, 05:52 PM
Ever wonder what the team would have been like if Wiz got the HC job?

Well, if what has happened in Arizona since he took the reins there is any indication, very possibly worse than they are now.

Atlanta Dan
10-03-2011, 05:52 PM
Ever wonder what the team would have been like if Wiz got the HC job?

Hard to say - Ben hated Whiz but maybe Whiz would have enhanced Ben's good traits while reining in the freelancing that has turned Ben into a turnover machine

If Whiz stayed my bet is Grimm still leaves (along with LeBeau?) so you might have a no more productive offense to go with a less productive defense

It is rare that an assistant has a lot of success if he is promoted from within to follow a successful HC who steps down voluntarily (only one I can recall is Seifert following Walsh but that was pre-cap when the 49ers bought whomever they wanted) - players sometimes do not listen to a HC who was an assistant with the same team

fer522
10-03-2011, 07:09 PM
I wish Cowher was still our coach

i wish JFK was still our president :chuckle:

Buddha Bus
10-03-2011, 07:22 PM
i wish JFK was still our president :chuckle:


:toofunny:

steeltheone
10-03-2011, 07:28 PM
Maybe sick of Cowher?

His wife, rest her soul, apparently as diagnosed in late 2009/early 2010 with the inoperable melanoma

She moved to Raleigh and said Cowher was welcome to join her before the 2006 season, which seemed to indicate some problems

Bottom line was Cowher was not hanging aroiund unless he became one of the top paid coaches in the game aftrer 2005 - can't say Steelers would have done any better if he was still around (4 playoff teams in his last 9 seasons)

He would have done atleast as good as Tomlin...That i have no doubt!

Atlanta Dan
10-03-2011, 07:32 PM
He would have done atleast as good as Tomlin...That i have no doubt!

OK - but I doubt it

Both AFC championship games Tomlin won to get to the Super Bowl were at home - those sorts of games did not work out well for Cowher and he had the same problem beating Brady in big games that Tomlin has

palasport
10-03-2011, 07:44 PM
I'm having serious doubt about our offensive line coach,I mean the O-line is a joke,why havn't we picked up Starks yet,we really need some vets up front instead of all these young guys that need taught ok we have Essex but still. starks could go back to the LT and Essex could go back on the right side.

tony hipchest
10-03-2011, 07:50 PM
I'm having serious doubt about our offensive line coach,I mean the O-line is a joke,why havn't we picked up Starks yet,we really need some vets up front instead of all these young guys that need taught ok we have Essex but still. starks could go back to the LT and Essex could go back on the right side.salary cap.

oh and that starks is a 350 tub-o-goo with a surgically repaired neck. i notice the vikings have been in no hurry to sign him after a visit 2 games ago.

we might as well bring back marvell smith. i hear his surgically repaired back is doing real well now.

ricardisimo
10-03-2011, 09:23 PM
The O-line is on Colbert, not Tomlin. There is no cap room to sign anyone. Period. There is no magic wand for these sorts of problems even when there is room. Mike has to use what Kevin has given him, and that's that.

The criticism of his sideline enthusiasm is weird. He's not Cowher and he never will be. There's minuses to that, sure, but the plus is that his "act" (or lack of one) will never get stale with the players. And honestly, should he really have to pump up a bunch of 30+-year-old veterans? No.

The Arians question... yes. That's on Tomlin. If there is no accountability for the coaches - and there clearly isn't in Arians' case - the players will pick up on that immediately and be able to say (as some already have started to, I think) "Why are you getting on my case but not Bruce?" It's a legitimate question, too.

tony hipchest
10-03-2011, 09:41 PM
i bet if tomlin would simply hock a loogie and spit it on the sideline once every quarter, the team would immediately respond and play MUCH better.

you can easilly tell the fans who remember noll's stonefaced sideline demeanor from those who are only familiar with cowhers spittle.

Goldsteel86
10-03-2011, 09:57 PM
i bet if tomlin would simply hock a loogie and spit it on the sideline once every quarter, the team would immediately respond and play MUCH better.

you can easilly tell the fans who remember noll's stonefaced sideline demeanor from those who are only familiar with cowhers spittle.

There lies the problem, when Noll spoke the players listened if they didn't he got rid of them. When Cowher spoke and stuck out the "Chin" players feared him, he was in their face, wasn't afraid to grab a face mask or two, Tomlin wants to be their friend. Arians has one big thing on his side, it is for the sole purpose, that big thing wants to air it out all the time. That big asset is Ben, but I'll go out on a limb and say this, I do believe, if you ask Ben at the end of this week, or even tomorrow, his outlook may change.

tony hipchest
10-03-2011, 10:18 PM
can anyone confirm how many times the cbs television production actually showed a sideline shot of tomlin yesterday? i remember one, where tomlin "looking like a deer in headlights" was actually looking up at the big screen, watching a replay.

but i get it. after a 2-2 record people now want a sideline bojangler like rex ryan, or porta john harbaugh.

not thanks. i'll take tomlins playoff record vs those clowns, over their sideline jackassery any day.

plenewken
10-04-2011, 07:40 AM
I am going to give Tomlin a slight pass on this one. He isn't the one that signs the guys that play on this team. Sure, he has some input, but it is not his final say. They have a salary cap to be within.

Soooooooo....you can only work with what you've got.

And who decides we don't need a FB and our $7M/year TE is primarily a blocker? The FO? I don't think so.
It's Tomlin and his coaching staff's responsibility. They don't do with the players they're given, they decide what offensive and defensive schemes they want to implement and they get the type of players that fit the schemes.

BKAnthem
10-04-2011, 11:41 AM
I don't have a problem with Tomlin, except i think he's getting rolled by Arians, Colbert , and to some extent Ben by letting him keep his pet rock(head) Arians.

ZoneBlitzer
10-04-2011, 12:00 PM
I never listen to Tomlin's press conferences anymore, but I'm guessing this last one contained the same amount of jargon that we're typical of hearing from Tomlin.

Stuff like:

"We acknowledge that we need to get better"

...but will do nothing to actually accomplish that.

"We simply weren't prepared"

Oh, no shit! Hey, here's an idea coach. Maybe you should start doing your job and MAKE SURE they're prepared. A coach's #1 job is to make sure his team is ready to play on game day. If they were prepared, then just own up and tell people that they f***ing suck.

"We're about to unleash hell..."

...on our loving fanbase.

"Ben needs to get rid of the ball faster"

...so right now were working on plays in which he throws it through Pouncey's legs immediately after he's handed the ball under center.

Some heads are going to roll

...so we'll cut some guy on the practice squad who never had a snowball's chance in hell of seeing game time.



Seriously, Tomlin is overmatched and always has been. His first season fared pretty well because the Steelers had the easiest schedule that year and everyone knew it. Yes, his team won a Super Bowl, but the O-Line play was still shit, the running game was nonexistent at times... I credit Ben and the defense (thus, LeBeau) more for that win than Tomlin. And since then? The team collapsed in 2009, we made it to a Super Bowl in 2010 but lost (and nearly choked in two playoff games) and we might be looking at a losing season now. And all of that can be pinned on Tomlin's (and I guess the FO's) flat-out refusal to fix the O-Line issues that have plagued the team for years.

Spot on. Overmatched is the word.

fivedawg
10-04-2011, 12:01 PM
is it tomlins fault the o-line is constantly getting hurt...or farrior is getting old..no...infuse some young guys who have fire to play...we cant score if ben is constantly on his back

cloppbeast
10-04-2011, 12:14 PM
can anyone confirm how many times the cbs television production actually showed a sideline shot of tomlin yesterday? i remember one, where tomlin "looking like a deer in headlights" was actually looking up at the big screen, watching a replay.

but i get it. after a 2-2 record people now want a sideline bojangler like rex ryan, or porta john harbaugh.

not thanks. i'll take tomlins playoff record vs those clowns, over their sideline jackassery any day.

I was on your side last year, easilly. But I'm beginning to get suspicious.

The critics make good points: he's been winning mostly with Cowher's players. He can't form a sentence without using some worthless cliche.

Right now, I'm in wait and see mode. I definitley disagree with his approach this season. I'm just not seeing any urgency. I feel like he should start banging some heads together. But, we'll see if his say works.

steelfury02
10-04-2011, 12:22 PM
I don't think we should over-emphasize Tomlin's press conference remarks. I'll go back to the question - who would you rather have at coach then if not Tomlin? And no, Cowher is not coming back. Cowher's situation was completely different and cannot be compared at all.

In the early 90s, the only direction the Steelers could go was up. Cowher was praised up and down for improving a team that had been lost for a decade BUT he choked in the big games. It took patience and 15 seasons before he won it all - and isn't that how we measure coaches in the burgh?

Tomlin came in with a much more talented and proven group and for me, that is much harder than coming in and being asked to revamp the team. Cowher did not help the team win SB 43. What exactly does "Cowher's team" mean anyways? The fact there were guys drafted under Cowher's tenure? Guess what - those same guys wanted to stick around and resign under Tomlin - so it can't be that bad. Over Tomlin's tenure we have praised the body of work of the guys he has drafted thus far. The guy doesn't wear his emotion on his sleeve - and the one time it tried - it backfired with a 5 game losing streak.

Tomlin is Tomlin and the guy will at least win another ring before it is all said and done. Forget the past already.

Rek
10-04-2011, 12:33 PM
Hired in 2007. 2 SB appearances.

Yeah, I'm just fine with Tomlin. Hopefully he's like me and ignoring the typical "sky is falling" attitude from Steeler fans.

SteeleReign
10-04-2011, 01:24 PM
I don't think we should over-emphasize Tomlin's press conference remarks. I'll go back to the question - who would you rather have at coach then if not Tomlin? And no, Cowher is not coming back. Cowher's situation was completely different and cannot be compared at all.

In the early 90s, the only direction the Steelers could go was up. Cowher was praised up and down for improving a team that had been lost for a decade BUT he choked in the big games. It took patience and 15 seasons before he won it all - and isn't that how we measure coaches in the burgh?

Tomlin came in with a much more talented and proven group and for me, that is much harder than coming in and being asked to revamp the team. Cowher did not help the team win SB 43. What exactly does "Cowher's team" mean anyways? The fact there were guys drafted under Cowher's tenure? Guess what - those same guys wanted to stick around and resign under Tomlin - so it can't be that bad. Over Tomlin's tenure we have praised the body of work of the guys he has drafted thus far. The guy doesn't wear his emotion on his sleeve - and the one time it tried - it backfired with a 5 game losing streak.

Tomlin is Tomlin and the guy will at least win another ring before it is all said and done. Forget the past already.

I agree with some of what you say, but I also tend to agree with CloppBeast. I'm willing to hold my judgment until I see Tomlin work under tough conditions. After all, that's when a man proves his worth.

However, my concern is with this "players coach" label. That type of coach will typically be successful (given a good roster) for a period of time, then the polish wears off and the coach loses the team. I'm hoping this doesn't happen.

ricardisimo
10-04-2011, 03:04 PM
I agree with some of what you say, but I also tend to agree with CloppBeast. I'm willing to hold my judgment until I see Tomlin work under tough conditions. After all, that's when a man proves his worth.

However, my concern is with this "players coach" label. That type of coach will typically be successful (given a good roster) for a period of time, then the polish wears off and the coach loses the team. I'm hoping this doesn't happen.
I don't know that there's much tought conditions than winning the team back after the motorcycle/appendectomy waste of a year. But he did it.

And he won the second SB with Timmons, Woodley, Spaeth, Sepulveda, Gay, Mendenhall, Dixon, Ziggy, Wallace, Keenan, Pouncey, Sanders, Worilds, Butler, Sylvester, Dwyer, Brown, and a bunch of others who were clearly not "Cowher's guys".

BKAnthem
10-04-2011, 04:44 PM
I don't know that there's much tought conditions than winning the team back after the motorcycle/appendectomy waste of a year. But he did it.

And he won the second SB with Timmons, Woodley, Spaeth, Sepulveda, Gay, Mendenhall, Dixon, Ziggy, Wallace, Keenan, Pouncey, Sanders, Worilds, Butler, Sylvester, Dwyer, Brown, and a bunch of others who were clearly not "Cowher's guys".

Ummm...some of those guys were not on that team when they won in '08.

rich4eagle
10-04-2011, 05:40 PM
First of all, Tomlin is nit responsible for everything that is wrong with this team. The offensive line is composed of piss poor players. There's not much you can do to be successful with that. It also looks that the defense is getting old and the talent is eroding. But there are things that a decent coach shouodnhave obviously done.

For over a year it has been apparent that Redman is better than Mendenhall. And it took an injury for Redman to get in the game. If Redman starts against Tennessee, no one is going to doubt that Redman is better than Mendenhall Also, he needed to step in a long ago and tell Arians to stop spreading it out on 3rd down with no one in the backfield to protect Ben. He always gets sacked. Some of our offensive problems could be corrected by doing a few simple things, but Tomlin hasn't changed it.

It looks like Tomlin is more a product of Kevin Colbert and the scouting departments good drafts than anything else. I wouldn't be disappointed if Tomlin was actually fired after this season, but he won't be.

been thinking that way for some amount of time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but success has impeded it

SteeleReign
10-04-2011, 05:41 PM
I don't know that there's much tought conditions than winning the team back after the motorcycle/appendectomy waste of a year. But he did it.

And he won the second SB with Timmons, Woodley, Spaeth, Sepulveda, Gay, Mendenhall, Dixon, Ziggy, Wallace, Keenan, Pouncey, Sanders, Worilds, Butler, Sylvester, Dwyer, Brown, and a bunch of others who were clearly not "Cowher's guys".

Well, I think tough conditions off the field are perfect for a players coach - right in his wheel-house. I'm more concerned with the failing conditions of the on-field product. If he can't right the ship & continues to offer more drivel from the book of Tomlinisms then he will lose the team.

Some of the guys you mentioned were not on that Super Bowl-winning team - though I get your point.

ricardisimo
10-04-2011, 06:22 PM
Ummm...some of those guys were not on that team when they won in '08.
True, but he got to a second with them, and I just got on a roll with pointing out that he has been developing talent, not just milking Cowher's legacy.

Ricco Suavez
10-04-2011, 06:50 PM
I think Tomlin is the most professional coach in the game, he does not play to the fans or the camera. I for one have not seen the "deer in the headlight look". He WILL NOT start busting heads because that would be too much like a panic mode. He will play the hand that is dealt him. He has a team with no cap room, injuries on the O-line that was pretty bad to begin with.

He alone cannot fire Arians, sure he could lobby that he be gone but we know who pulls that trigger. Maybe Tomlin is loyal to Arians and he is holding out hope. We have a lot of guys pulling down big money that are not getting their job done, James Harrison said as much today. Our lack of offense and defense could very well be a lot of players not doing their jobs.

We are in only our fourth game and we are 2-2 with three of those on the road, and we lost to two playoff caliber teams. the Steelers can still right this ship, remember 6-5 and they win out for the Lombardi. The two biggest worries for me our first our O-line and second our age on defense and the fact we have looked slow, but Tomlin is not what I worry about.

Riddle_Of_Steel
10-04-2011, 07:12 PM
Wow. We lose 2 games and you guys are ready to go to pieces, fire the head coach, fire the QB, fire the owner, heck, lets fire the Gatorade boy on the sidelines too?

2 FXXKING LOSSSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the sky is falling..... What a SPOILED fanbase!! There are Lions fans who have not seen an .500 season in their viewing lifetimes!

1) OLINE - FIrst off, Tomlin does NOT make any of the personnel decisions. He has to work with what Kevin Colbert and the front office provided him at the start of the season-- and that was a Pro-bowl center surrounded by four practice squad guys. Why? THE SALARY CAP....if we could afford to bring the Hotel in, do you not think we would? And speaking of the cap, that brings me to my next point....

2) OWNERSHIP - While everybody is busy reminiscing about the good ole days of getting beat at home in the playoffs every year under Cowher, and blaming our roster/personel woes on Tomlin, keep in mind WHAT ELSE CHANGED AROUND THE SAME TIME TOMLIN WAS HIRED-- a CHANGE IN OWNERSHIP!!!!!! A LOT of the personnel decisions you guys are blaming Tomlin for, are things he has NO CONTROL OVER WHATSOEVER. Managing the roster and the salary cap, is Kevin Colbert's job and the OWNER's responsibility, not the Head Coach (other than gameday decisions-- he has no control over who gets what contract or who gets drafted).

And yes, we have changed the way we do business a little bit since 2007....

While the elder Mr. Rooney built his teams around young players arrived at from the draft, the younger Rooney is still learning-- contracts like what we have seen in the last few years, were ALMOST UNHEARD OF from the Steelers. Lamar's 6 year, Harrison's 6 year, Timmons 4 year, Polamalu's 4 year, Ike's 4 year, etc. etc.

These big singings ensured we will have these players for a few more years, but also ensures we don't have the money to fill the other roster spots, which is exactly what we are up against this year on the Oline. Many of us predicted a rebuilding phase, based on the way we threw around so many big contracts the last two offseasons, and...it is here.

Me personally, based on retarded threads like this one and the many responses I am reading-- I would say a mediocre or losing season ( or two) is exactly what the Steelers fanbase needs. A bad season or two will help us to dump some of the more "fair weather" types and do some housecleaning. Also, it will give us some much-needed early draft picks that we have not enjoyed since 2004 or 2007.

WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE CALLING FOR YOUR SUPERBOWL-WINNING HEAD COACH'S JOB AFTER 2 FREAKING LOSSES-- IT IS SAFE TO SAY, YOUR FANBASE HAS MANAGED TO PICK UP A FEW "FAIR WEATHER" ELEMENTS FOR SURE.

Riddle_Of_Steel
10-04-2011, 07:17 PM
This joke of a thread should be renamed:

HAVING SERIOUS DOUBTS ABOUT OUR FANBASE

or

BAND WAGON FANS UNITE!

or

PICK YOUR FAVORITE STAFF MEMBER TO FIRE

or

AFTER TWO LOSSES, THE SKY HAS FALLEN AT HEINZ

steelfury02
10-04-2011, 07:19 PM
It isnt Tomlins fault that this corp group of guys, after their 3rd Super Bowl trip, are starting to show signs of another hangover following deep playoff run. Combine that with some strong personalities, off season dramas w the one guy who is supposed to be a leader, and sub par offenses - it is great what he has accomplished as a coach. Ill use the Belicheat approach - hasnt won a SB in 7 seasons or a playoff game in over 3 seasons - but they arent sweating over the coach and neither should we. Tomlin will win another SB or two and bet he coaches a couple years less than cowher

ricardisimo
10-04-2011, 07:42 PM
Wow. We lose 2 games and you guys are ready to go to pieces, fire the head coach, fire the QB, fire the owner, heck, lets fire the Gatorade boy on the sidelines too?

2 FXXKING LOSSSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the sky is falling..... What a SPOILED fanbase!! There are Lions fans who have not seen an .500 season in their viewing lifetimes!

1) OLINE - FIrst off, Tomlin does NOT make any of the personnel decisions. He has to work with what Kevin Colbert and the front office provided him at the start of the season-- and that was a Pro-bowl center surrounded by four practice squad guys. Why? THE SALARY CAP....if we could afford to bring the Hotel in, do you not think we would? And speaking of the cap, that brings me to my next point....

2) OWNERSHIP - While everybody is busy reminiscing about the good ole days of getting beat at home in the playoffs every year under Cowher, and blaming our roster/personel woes on Tomlin, keep in mind WHAT ELSE CHANGED AROUND THE SAME TIME TOMLIN WAS HIRED-- a CHANGE IN OWNERSHIP!!!!!! A LOT of the personnel decisions you guys are blaming Tomlin for, are things he has NO CONTROL OVER WHATSOEVER. Managing the roster and the salary cap, is Kevin Colbert's job and the OWNER's responsibility, not the Head Coach (other than gameday decisions-- he has no control over who gets what contract or who gets drafted).

And yes, we have changed the way we do business a little bit since 2007....

While the elder Mr. Rooney built his teams around young players arrived at from the draft, the younger Rooney is still learning-- contracts like what we have seen in the last few years, were ALMOST UNHEARD OF from the Steelers. Lamar's 6 year, Harrison's 6 year, Timmons 4 year, Polamalu's 4 year, Ike's 4 year, etc. etc.

These big singings ensured we will have these players for a few more years, but also ensures we don't have the money to fill the other roster spots, which is exactly what we are up against this year on the Oline. Many of us predicted a rebuilding phase, based on the way we threw around so many big contracts the last two offseasons, and...it is here.

Me personally, based on retarded threads like this one and the many responses I am reading-- I would say a mediocre or losing season ( or two) is exactly what the Steelers fanbase needs. A bad season or two will help us to dump some of the more "fair weather" types and do some housecleaning. Also, it will give us some much-needed early draft picks that we have not enjoyed since 2004 or 2007.

WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE CALLING FOR YOUR SUPERBOWL-WINNING HEAD COACH'S JOB AFTER 2 FREAKING LOSSES-- IT IS SAFE TO SAY, YOUR FANBASE HAS MANAGED TO PICK UP A FEW "FAIR WEATHER" ELEMENTS FOR SURE.
In all fairness, I'm not sure I saw a whole lot of flaming pitchforks, more like people letting off steam. It happens, not so much with losses as with unexpected losses and high hopes dashed to the rocks below.

But yeah, we've got some spoiled fans. Spoiled fans with bad memories, to boot. Bill Cowher gave us 6-10 twice, as well as 7-9 and 8-8. Tomlin has given us uninterrupted winning seasons.

Steeler4life1972
10-04-2011, 07:49 PM
ok...no more blaming Tomlin...hes gonna practice them in pads 2 times this week...he's our coach and will be for a while...lets take care of the Titans (please do cause I hate titans fans around here cause I live near Nashville) and at least play with some passion!!!

tony hipchest
10-05-2011, 03:46 PM
This joke of a thread should be renamed:

HAVING SERIOUS DOUBTS ABOUT OUR FANBASE

or

BAND WAGON FANS UNITE!

or

PICK YOUR FAVORITE STAFF MEMBER TO FIRE

or

AFTER TWO LOSSES, THE SKY HAS FALLEN AT HEINZ

:chuckle: how bout-

WE NEED A FIREY COACH WHO WEARS HIS EMOTION ON THIS SLEEVE AND SHOWERS SPITTLE TO LIGHT A FIRE UNDER HIS PLAYERS ASS LIKE TODD HALEY!!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d822d93e1/article/haleys-sideline-antics-wearing-thin-in-kansas-city?campaign=Twitter_features

Pioli spent over a decade in New England with Bill Belichick who, as we have seen on NFL Network's "A Football Life: Bill Belichick," is calm and controlled on the sidelines -- other than cursing at Derrick Mason. Belichick wants his team to be poised and composed, therefore he acts poised and composed. Much like when a basketball coach screams at every call, it's not long before his entire team is yelling at the referees and not focusing on the game. Pioli knows the right way to behave on the sideline. This act by Haley has to be wearing thin on Pioli.


This is Haley's third season as the Chiefs coach -- you would think he would have learned to handle his emotions and realize that the opponent is not on his sideline, but rather across the field. The more Haley screams, especially on Sunday when it embarrasses the players, the faster he is going to lose their attention and their will to play hard. If that happens, he will lose his team.

I am not suggesting that Haley not demand from his team, but there is a difference between coaching and being a raving lunatic. Haley's temper tantrums make things seem personal, so instead of learning from the wisdom of his coaching, the players resent the way he delivers the message.

Calm down, Todd.


atleast todd never has that blank, deer in the headlights, look. :hunch:

Buddha Bus
10-05-2011, 04:08 PM
:chuckle: how bout-

WE NEED A FIREY COACH WHO WEARS HIS EMOTION ON THIS SLEEVE AND SHOWERS SPITTLE TO LIGHT A FIRE UNDER HIS PLAYERS ASS LIKE TODD HALEY!!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d822d93e1/article/haleys-sideline-antics-wearing-thin-in-kansas-city?campaign=Twitter_features



atleast todd never has that blank, deer in the headlights, look. :hunch:

No way do I want another Todd Haley.... guy's a douche. I still would like to see Tomlin get into them a little right now for the way they're playing. I don't want him screaming at them all the time. It would just cause the team to tune him out after too much of it and lose them completely.

Like I said, I think it would carry more weight coming from a guy who doesn't normally do that like Tomlin. That works to his advantage when he does rip them. Sort of how curse words carry more weight coming from a person who rarely uses them.

The current approach isn't doing the job of getting them fired up apparently. :noidea:

tony hipchest
10-05-2011, 04:46 PM
No way do I want another Todd Haley.... guy's a douche. I still would like to see Tomlin get into them a little right now for the way they're playing. I don't want him screaming at them all the time. It would just cause the team to tune him out after too much of it and lose them completely.

Like I said, I think it would carry more weight coming from a guy who doesn't normally do that like Tomlin. That works to his advantage when he does rip them. Sort of how curse words carry more weight coming from a person who rarely uses them.

The current approach isn't doing the job of getting them fired up apparently. :noidea:all good and valid points, but its nearly impossible to fire up subpar talent to play above their heads on a week in week out basis. not even tomlin could see j. scott looking like such a flop and the OL losing its veteran leader in colon.

i think he made a good move bringing back starks and telling him they need his experience and leadership. i hope it works.

with scott, essex, kemoestu, pouncey, foster, legursky, gilbert, who the hell was leading that unit.

kemoeatu would be the veteran but he's probably stashed away in a corner snacking on a box of LEGO's.

im hoping james injury will galvanize the defensive unit, bring focus, and bring them even closer together. the entire unit got punched in the eye by the ravens in week one.

james got head butted in the eye and still came back. sometimes actions are louder than words. i hope im right.

Buddha Bus
10-05-2011, 04:56 PM
all good and valid points, but its nearly impossible to fire up subpar talent to play above their heads on a week in week out basis. not even tomlin could see j. scott looking like such a flop and the OL losing its veteran leader in colon.

i think he made a good move bringing back starks and telling him they need his experience and leadership. i hope it works.

with scott, essex, kemoestu, pouncey, foster, legursky, gilbert, who the hell was leading that unit.

kemoeatu would be the veteran but he's probably stashed away in a corner snacking on a box of LEGO's.

im hoping james injury will galvanize the defensive unit, bring focus, and bring them even closer together. the entire unit got punched in the eye by the ravens in week one.

james got head butted in the eye and still came back. sometimes actions are louder than words. i hope im right.

I didn't necessarily mean the O-line, just the team in general. There's no reason why he couldn't get into some of the underperforming vets' asses (I'm looking at you Woodley, Timmons, Ward, Ben, Farrior!). It'll also send a message to the younger guys that half-assed effort and subpar play won't be tolerated, no matter who you are. A "teaching moment", if you will.

I agree the O-line is nearly hopeless. I say "nearly" because maybe now there's some hope with Starks coming back, but he's only coming off the bench according to reports, so I'm not sure how much better he'll actually make them.

Here's to Max getting in shape and stealing his old job back from J. Scott! :drink:

ricardisimo
10-05-2011, 05:04 PM
I didn't necessarily mean the O-line, just the team in general. There's no reason why he couldn't get into some of the underperforming vets' asses (I'm looking at you Woodley, Timmons, Ward, Ben, Farrior!). It'll also send a message to the younger guys that half-assed effort and subpar play won't be tolerated, no matter who you are. A "teaching moment", if you will.

I agree the O-line is nearly hopeless. I say "nearly" because maybe now there's some hope with Starks coming back, but he's only coming off the bench according to reports, so I'm not sure how much better he'll actually make them.

Here's to Max getting in shape and stealing his old job back from J. Scott! :drink:
I'm going to differ with you here. I don't want him yelling at the boys at all. Could they be playing better? Yes and no. I'm not sure the O-line can do any better, so what good would it do to chew them out in public?

What I would love to hear about via rumors passed along to Bouchette and Brown is a serious chewing-out of the offensive coordinator. If these guys are executing bad plays and bad schemes to perfection, they are still bad plays, maybe doubly so.

Accountability starts at the top. The top in this case is Tomlin, Colbert, Arians and Lebeau. If those guys are perennially untouchable, nothing matters.

Buddha Bus
10-05-2011, 05:16 PM
I'm going to differ with you here. I don't want him yelling at the boys at all. Could they be playing better? Yes and no. I'm not sure the O-line can do any better, so what good would it do to chew them out in public?

What I would love to hear about via rumors passed along to Bouchette and Brown is a serious chewing-out of the offensive coordinator. If these guys are executing bad plays and bad schemes to perfection, they are still bad plays, maybe doubly so.

Accountability starts at the top. The top in this case is Tomlin, Colbert, Arians and Lebeau. If those guys are perennially untouchable, nothing matters.

Once again, Ric, I said I didn't mean the O-line. I meant the veterans that are underperforming. I also didn't say it HAD to be in public. Do it in the locker room, the parking lot, Tomlin's office, hell.... Archie Bunker's living room for all I care!

Just get the message across to them that this is not Steeler quality football and that more effort and focus needs to be shown on the field or changes will be made. Of course, he will have to actually back that up with actions if they don't respond and I think he should.

I also agree with chewing out Arians, LeBeau and any other coaches under-preparing their respective units.... especially Arians.

tony hipchest
10-05-2011, 05:18 PM
i agree that tomlin needs to chew the ass of arians... in private. ward is barely biting his tongue to the media when he points out he has only been targeted 12 times in the past 3 games.

heath miller, probably less.

arians needs to be sternly told to quit dicking around with this outdated patriot smurf ball, quit listening to the likes of fakedanrooney and other fans who think they know what it takes to win, and then feed the ball to the proven money makers.

also worthy to note that starks took half the snaps with the first teamers in todays practice. :thumbsup:

Buddha Bus
10-05-2011, 05:22 PM
also worthy to note that starks took half the snaps with the first teamers in todays practice. :thumbsup:

Now that's what I like to hear! At least they're giving him a chance to possibly get his job back. Enough of the Jonathan Scott experiment. Let him back-up Starks if he proves himself ready for the task. :tt04:

Big D
10-05-2011, 05:23 PM
what kills me is mike martz gets beat down on a weekly basis for being pass happy. Arians has been doing the same thing all year. I do think if we continue to sputter the rest of the year arians should be fired. And if not if we miss the playoffs next year you have to consider firing arians AND TOMLIN.

SteeleReign
10-05-2011, 05:28 PM
I get tired of the "establishment" making accusations of being a "fair-weather fan" if someone questions the current state of the team. I have been a die-hard fan for 35 years & always will be. It's my right as a fan to offer my opinions of where the team stands and why....especially on a talk forum....what the hell else are you gonna talk about??!?!!?!

I, for one, have questioned Tomlin as a coach since his hollow week-to-week threats in 2009. It rang as weak and the follow-through was weaker. I don't know who Tomlin is...he sounds rehearsed and cliche everytime he speaks. I've grown tired of his press conferences and interviews. And I think his players-coach approach will wear itself out - they almost always do.

Did we get to a couple of SBs with him? Yeah, but I don't give him much of the credit for that, other than his willingness to step out of LeBeau's way and allow him to stick to what was working. Where is Tomln's stamp on this team? Offense? No. Defense? No. Personnel? Maybe. Gameplanning? Again, I think most of that is left up to the OC & DC. I just can't put a finger on what he does for the team other than appeal to the players as just "one of the boys."

Big D
10-05-2011, 05:32 PM
I get tired of the "establishment" making accusations of being a "fair-weather fan" if someone questions the current state of the team. I have been a die-hard fan for 35 years & always will be. It's my right as a fan to offer my opinions of where the team stands and why....especially on a talk forum....what the hell else are you gonna talk about??!?!!?!

I, for one, have questioned Tomlin as a coach since his hollow week-to-week threats in 2009. It rang as weak and the follow-through was weaker. I don't know who Tomlin is...he sounds rehearsed and cliche everytime he speaks. I've grown tired of his press conferences and interviews. And I think his players-coach approach will wear itself out - they almost always do.

Did we get to a couple of SBs with him? Yeah, but I don't give him much of the credit for that, other than his willingness to step out of LeBeau's way and allow him to stick to what was working. Where is Tomln's stamp on this team? Offense? No. Defense? No. Personnel? Maybe. Gameplanning? Again, I think most of that is left up to the OC & DC. I just can't put a finger on what he does for the team other than appeal to the players as just "one of the boys."
I have to disagree with you on this. Coaching does make one hell of a difference. Look at the downward spiral the chargers have taken since schottenheimer got fired. I do tihnk tomlin is a hell of a coach and easily a top 3 coach in this league.

SteeleReign
10-05-2011, 05:38 PM
I have to disagree with you on this. Coaching does make one hell of a difference. Look at the downward spiral the chargers have taken since schottenheimer got fired. I do tihnk tomlin is a hell of a coach and easily a top 3 coach in this league.

I can agree to disagree. Although, I do agree with you regarding the Chargers - Norv is an OC, not a HC.

As for Tomlin, I just don't see it. As I said, what imprint does he have on this team? Tomlin reminds me of a more polished version of Wade Phillips, except that Phillips obviously made an impression on Dallas' offense. Tomlin seems so measured and passion-less. Maybe it's his demeanor to the press, and that's cool. But, I can't figure out where Tomlin has made the Steelers better.

tony hipchest
10-05-2011, 07:01 PM
how did wade phillips make an impression? he's a defensive coach. more like sean payton and jason garret left an impression on their offense.

if this is the off the wall stardard tomlin is going to be held to by the fans, he is doomed before he even begins.

SteeleReign
10-05-2011, 09:10 PM
how did wade phillips make an impression? he's a defensive coach. more like sean payton and jason garret left an impression on their offense.

if this is the off the wall stardard tomlin is going to be held to by the fans, he is doomed before he even begins.

You missed my point. Phillips brought a defensive philosophy to the Cowboys, despite what you think of him as a coach. I'm no fan of his by the way.

My point is...what does Tomlin bring to the Steelers, other than a players-coach style of coaching? He's a Tampa 2 defensive coach, which is not part of our defense. Arians runs the offense (horribly). So, what impact does Tomlin provide to the team aside from being chummy with the vets?

I would have thought his impact would be in the secondary, but we haven't seen evidence of that to date.

SteelCityMom
10-05-2011, 09:21 PM
what kills me is mike martz gets beat down on a weekly basis for being pass happy. Arians has been doing the same thing all year. I do think if we continue to sputter the rest of the year arians should be fired. And if not if we miss the playoffs next year you have to consider firing arians AND TOMLIN.

Firing Tomlin if the miss the playoffs next year is a little extreme and knee jerky IMO. And it's not how the Steelers (or most other teams for that matter) conduct business. He hasn't had a losing season yet, and you want to consider firing him after one, possibly two losing seasons? So soon after he's taken the team to two SBs?

Arians I agree with though...he should have been gone after the '09 season.

steeltheone
10-05-2011, 09:47 PM
I have to disagree with you on this. Coaching does make one hell of a difference. Look at the downward spiral the chargers have taken since schottenheimer got fired. I do tihnk tomlin is a hell of a coach and easily a top 3 coach in this league.

Are you drunk, Top 3 in the league? You ever hear of George Seifort?

tony hipchest
10-05-2011, 10:03 PM
You missed my point. Phillips brought a defensive philosophy to the Cowboys, despite what you think of him as a coach. I'm no fan of his by the way.

My point is...what does Tomlin bring to the Steelers, other than a players-coach style of coaching? He's a Tampa 2 defensive coach, which is not part of our defense. Arians runs the offense (horribly). So, what impact does Tomlin provide to the team aside from being chummy with the vets?

I would have thought his impact would be in the secondary, but we haven't seen evidence of that to date.ahhh...

maybe your point just wasnt clear. did he bring a defensive philosopy or make "an impression on Dallas' offense"?

or was it his defensive philosphy that left an offensive imprint?

anyways, dallas sucks, wade was fired, and they didnt win jack shit with him as HC, so maybe he didnt bring much of anything to the table and it was just a bad example. :noidea:

Sixburgher
10-05-2011, 10:06 PM
Are you drunk, Top 3 in the league? You ever hear of George Seifort?

If by extension you're comparing Cowher to Walsh, the same question can very rightly be asked of you.

steelfury02
10-05-2011, 10:39 PM
once again - who exactly should be the head coach in Tomlin's place?

SteelCityMom
10-06-2011, 12:03 AM
Are you drunk, Top 3 in the league? You ever hear of George Seifort?

I'm pretty sure he means in the league right now...not all time lol.

OX1947
10-06-2011, 03:56 AM
Tomlin is a good coach. However, his style doesn't work for me, personally. Cowher was more of my personality. But, saying Tomlin is winning with Cowher's guys still is a bit unjust. Cowher's been retired for 5 years. In sports, little things and inches change the entire course of a person's legacy and ability. If the Steelers have one less turnover in February, Tomlin would be a 2 time Super Bowl winning coach. If Bledsoe isnt knocked out by Mo Lewis, is Belichick a genius? What if Cowher had Marino in 1992? A lot of things factor in to this.

Now, where most of you are right with Tomlin is his decision to let Bruce run the offfense. He needs to put his foot down a little more. Not only for the sake of the team playing well, but for the health of his QB. Big Ben may be an issue with that as well. Ben is in his 8th year, and he may need to start thinking about whether he is going to be able to play 5 more years. He can not continue to allow himself to get murdered the way he has. And I put it on the head coach to convince and protect his 100 mil QB and 2-time SB winner, who happens to be in his prime.

ricardisimo
10-06-2011, 05:11 AM
I'm pretty sure he means in the league right now...not all time lol.
He's suggesting that Tomlin is the new Seifert, or Barry Switzer, etc., guys who did nothing more than inherit great teams. Hence the subsequent comment by Sixburgher asking if we can extrapolate that Cowher was therefore Walsh.

SteelCityMom
10-06-2011, 08:20 AM
He's suggesting that Tomlin is the new Seifert, or Barry Switzer, etc., guys who did nothing more than inherit great teams. Hence the subsequent comment by Sixburgher asking if we can extrapolate that Cowher was therefore Walsh.

Ahh ok...missed that lol.

Yeah, don't agree with that much either. Or at least I don't think you can make an objective call on that just yet.

SteeleReign
10-06-2011, 08:25 AM
ahhh...

maybe your point just wasnt clear. did he bring a defensive philosopy or make "an impression on Dallas' offense"?

or was it his defensive philosphy that left an offensive imprint?

anyways, dallas sucks, wade was fired, and they didnt win jack shit with him as HC, so maybe he didnt bring much of anything to the table and it was just a bad example. :noidea:

You're a funny guy...:coffee: I mistakenly called Phillips an offensive coach, but my point remains in relation to Tomlin.

Big D
10-06-2011, 10:45 AM
Are you drunk, Top 3 in the league? You ever hear of George Seifort?

are you drunk? other then bellycheat who else has taken a team to 2 superbowls the past decade? so name me three better coaches in the nfl right now? I would say in order it's belichick, tomlin and sean payton

steelfury02
10-06-2011, 02:10 PM
Oh yea - I'd have a hard time finding two coaches in the league right now that win more and more importantly - win more with the type of obstacles he has faced in his first 5 years.

Even if he did in fact "inherit" a team - it was still up to him to manage a locker room full of guys that aren't exactly "Yes sirs" or can manage to keep it under the radar during the season and off season.

What happens behind the scenes between Tomlin and ownership, Tomlin and coaches, and Tomlin and players is probably a lot more telling than the Tomlin with fans.

4 full seasons. 3 playoff appearances (and still 9-7 in the non-playoff season). 2 SB appearances. 1 SB win. Knowing when to not try and fix one hell of a defense while coaching with a mediocre at best offense. 1 Drama-inducing QB, one crappy O-line, some polarizing players on defense, lack of run game - and all he does is put up Ws. I'm not quite sure what we are lacking other than what we think we should see from an outsider's perspective.

fivedawg
10-06-2011, 02:29 PM
is it tomlins fault that on every pass play ben is running for his life. farrior is old, william gay is a 4th cb at best, injuries are our problem not tomlin

harrison'samonster
10-06-2011, 08:26 PM
Now, where most of you are right with Tomlin is his decision to let Bruce run the offfense. He needs to put his foot down a little more. Not only for the sake of the team playing well, but for the health of his QB. Big Ben may be an issue with that as well. Ben is in his 8th year, and he may need to start thinking about whether he is going to be able to play 5 more years. He can not continue to allow himself to get murdered the way he has. And I put it on the head coach to convince and protect his 100 mil QB and 2-time SB winner, who happens to be in his prime.

I completely agree. As the head coach, he is ultimately responsible. If we can't count on our line to protect Ben, then ultimately it is Tomlin's fault. I blame Arians and the O-line on a regular basis, but if these same problems keep happening over and over, it's time for he head coach to take the blame.

I keep waiting for Tomlin to fix the problems, but so far nothing seems to be working.