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Truman_sparks
10-07-2011, 10:40 PM
The second Colon went down for the year, the line was sunk! The Front office should have IMMEDIATELY signed a player capable of starting instead of deciding to patch a line together. This also depletes your depth. Had they instead kept Hills on the roster, and signed Starks and Flozell - or another capable starter if he wouldn't sign, then this offensive debacle could have been avoided.....Essex is NOT a starting LT, and Legursky is NOT a capable starting RG. Now that Kemo is hurt we are really in big trouble up front. The Line could have looked more like this....

Starks, Kemo, Pouncy, Essex, Flozell

With Foster, Legursky, Hills and Gilbert as backups.

Now, it's just a mess, and quite possibly the worst O Line in the NFL.

casteeler
10-07-2011, 10:44 PM
EASILY... The worst

WickedSteel
10-07-2011, 11:16 PM
They should have been quietly addressing this issue over the past two seasons. How they can sit there and allow their $100 million QB to get destroyed game after game while keeping the same inept, patchwork O line and expecting different results is beyond me.

The other high paid QBs in the league have good O lines and game plans that have them get rid of the ball quickly to avoid even taking a hit let alone a sack. Ben has been SACKED 14 times in 4 games and hit dozens more. How many times has Brady been sacked? ONCE.

SH-Rock
10-07-2011, 11:50 PM
They should have been quietly addressing this issue over the past two seasons. How they can sit there and allow their $100 million QB to get destroyed game after game while keeping the same inept, patchwork O line and expecting different results is beyond me.

The other high paid QBs in the league have good O lines and game plans that have them get rid of the ball quickly to avoid even taking a hit let alone a sack. Ben has been SACKED 14 times in 4 games and hit dozens more. How many times has Brady been sacked? ONCE.

If we draft Oline, then we don't get good receivers and we don't get good LB. You can't expect everyone you draft to be a star. And injuries has been killing the team the most. Oline, you don't need good players, just average players that have played for an extended period of time and have chemistry.

tony hipchest
10-07-2011, 11:55 PM
in terms of games missed, the worst injury ben has ever suffered in his career (other than the bike accident) was in 05 behind a line of smith-faneca-hartings-simmons- starks.

cry baby steelerfans need to quit their bitching and whining already.

queeg
10-08-2011, 02:26 AM
EASILY... The worst

Are any of you happy ever?????

Steeldude
10-08-2011, 02:27 AM
The second Colon went down for the year, the line was sunk! The Front office should have IMMEDIATELY signed a player capable of starting instead of deciding to patch a line together. This also depletes your depth. Had they instead kept Hills on the roster, and signed Starks and Flozell - or another capable starter if he wouldn't sign, then this offensive debacle could have been avoided.....Essex is NOT a starting LT, and Legursky is NOT a capable starting RG. Now that Kemo is hurt we are really in big trouble up front. The Line could have looked more like this....

Starks, Kemo, Pouncy, Essex, Flozell

With Foster, Legursky, Hills and Gilbert as backups.

Now, it's just a mess, and quite possibly the worst O Line in the NFL.

two words...salary cap

kirklandrules
10-08-2011, 06:23 AM
two words...salary cap

How dare you interject a sane thought into this ranting post!

55BaileyFan
10-08-2011, 08:07 AM
That opening statement sounded a bit like Colon is a good lineman? Yeah, and I am the King of Ohio. Colon is just as bad as any other lineman on the roster.

The Steelers shot themselves by cutting Starks and Flozell right off the bat. When you spend all your time giving your LB tons of money there will be none left over for your needs.

Steel4ever95
10-08-2011, 10:40 AM
I dont think they went after Flozell this year because he wanted more money than they were willing to pay him. I would have liked to see Starks stick around though, he was very consistent at LT. The Steelers must address the offensive line though in the next few drafts or at least in FA.

LVSteelersfan
10-08-2011, 11:04 AM
What, our FO isn't infallible? How many teams do you know that are 100% great at every position. Not even the mighty Patriots. Their defense is a disaster. Salary cap restrictions do not let a team be totally complete at every position. You have to pay your stars to keep them or they are playing for your rivals instead. They need to play up to their contracts (which they are not for the most part) but I guarantee you the stars will be gone if you don't pay them.

WickedSteel
10-08-2011, 01:11 PM
Well there's part of the problem. They paid Timmons and Woodley huge amounts of money to be playmakers. Problem is that with the tired, old, slow D line, these guys aren't effective at rushing the QB any more. Smith, Hampton and Kiesel can't take up enough blockers to let these guys through.

Now the most effective and dominate part of this team, the LB corps, has become a non factor. RBs are gashing them time after time and the secondary continues to give up the beg plays on play action.

They decided to invest $100 million in Ben and then spend the majority of the rest on LBs. They didn't want to, or couldn't afford to, spend any more on the O line and so Ben gets pummeled every game and doesn't have a chance to make a play. On the defensive side, they spent $50 mill on Timmons and nearly $70 mill on Woodely and now they are basically ineffective because of the old, tired D line not getting it done.

So they basically have high dollar superstars on both sides of the ball but they are unable to make plays due to the crappy play in front of them. THIS is the mistake that the FO made.

Atlanta Dan
10-08-2011, 01:17 PM
Well there's part of the problem. They paid Timmons and Woodley huge amounts of money to be playmakers. Problem is that with the tired, old, slow D line, these guys aren't effective at rushing the QB any more. Smith, Hampton and Kiesel can't take up enough blockers to let these guys through.

Now the most effective and dominate part of this team, the LB corps, has become a non factor. RBs are gashing them time after time and the secondary continues to give up the beg plays on play action.

They decided to invest $100 million in Ben and then spend the majority of the rest on LBs. They didn't want to, or couldn't afford to, spend any more on the O line and so Ben gets pummeled every game and doesn't have a chance to make a play. On the defensive side, they spent $50 mill on Timmons and nearly $70 mill on Woodely and now they are basically ineffective because of the old, tired D line not getting it done.

So they basically have high dollar superstars on both sides of the ball but they are unable to make plays due to the crappy play in front of them. THIS is the mistake that the FO made.

2 Lombardis, 3 Super Bowl appearances, and 4 AFC championship games in the last 7 years

The front office sucks ... and so do the Steelers

ricardisimo
10-08-2011, 01:37 PM
This is new. Haven't heard this complaint before.

Danny136200
10-08-2011, 01:42 PM
EASILY... The worst

Its a close call between the Bears, Eagles, and Steelers. We are not easily the worst..... Im gonna light myself on fire....

WickedSteel
10-08-2011, 01:47 PM
Keep bringing that up but it just reinforces the point I am trying to make. Just about all of the players on D that were there 7 years ago are still there now. They are getting old and tired and ineffective at making the plays that they are known for. The O line has progressively gotten worse, not better over the year. The O line against the Seahawks was pretty damn good, the one against the Cards was worse and the one last year was just bad. This year, it's worse.

The FO hasn't been planning for the future and building replacements for these players. They have just been riding the wave of talent that has been there for 8+ years and now things are finally breaking down. They now have a bunch of high paid veterans that are past their prime and aren't getting the job done. Am I saying that Ward sucks? No. Am I saying Farrior sucks? No. Am I saying that Smith sucks? No. What I am saying is that these guys made tremendous contributions that allowed this team to win 2 SBs and play in another but their effectiveness has run out. These guys will always be remembered for their talent and heart but it is time to move on.

Now the bottom has dropped out all at once and it's making things look REALLY bad out there. NOBODY is scared of the Steelers anymore. They can run against them, they can pass, whatever they want. They can put pressure on Ben and stop the running game effectively making this offense look totally lost. There is no fear or respect for this team anymore and I don't blame the rest of the league.

Atlanta Dan
10-08-2011, 02:27 PM
Keep bringing that up but it just reinforces the point I am trying to make. Just about all of the players on D that were there 7 years ago are still there now. They are getting old and tired and ineffective at making the plays that they are known for. The O line has progressively gotten worse, not better over the year. The O line against the Seahawks was pretty damn good, the one against the Cards was worse and the one last year was just bad. This year, it's worse.

The FO hasn't been planning for the future and building replacements for these players. They have just been riding the wave of talent that has been there for 8+ years and now things are finally breaking down. They now have a bunch of high paid veterans that are past their prime and aren't getting the job done. Am I saying that Ward sucks? No. Am I saying Farrior sucks? No. Am I saying that Smith sucks? No. What I am saying is that these guys made tremendous contributions that allowed this team to win 2 SBs and play in another but their effectiveness has run out. These guys will always be remembered for their talent and heart but it is time to move on.

Now the bottom has dropped out all at once and it's making things look REALLY bad out there. NOBODY is scared of the Steelers anymore. They can run against them, they can pass, whatever they want. They can put pressure on Ben and stop the running game effectively making this offense look totally lost. There is no fear or respect for this team anymore and I don't blame the rest of the league.

Would you at least try to get a grip?

The league is designed to have turnover at the top of the heap - that is what the draft and salary cap are designed to achieve

You appear to believe it is the 1970s and you just cut aging players loose and plug in new ones without having to deal with how it affects your cap number

Guess what? Nothing lasts forever (1960s Packers/1970s Steelers/1980s 49ers/1990s Cowboys).

I know you going to throw the Patriots back at me but, once again, guess what? - they have not won a Lombardi since 2004 and currently have one of the worst defenses in the league - so please point out to me a team without some major weaknesses somewhere that has a front office that has done a consistently better job over the last 10 years

A final point - this is not fantasy football - the other teams are trying to win as well - even in sports where you have significant salary disparities sometimes the better stocked team still loses (ask the Red Sox, Yankees and Phillies how that works)

In closing, out of curiosity how old are you? You apparently assume that teams you root for are entitled to and are going to win forever - if you have been paying attention to how pro sports operates for any length of time you should know that is not how it works

Ricco Suavez
10-08-2011, 08:55 PM
Would you at least try to get a grip?

The league is designed to have turnover at the top of the heap - that is what the draft and salary cap are designed to achieve

You appear to believe it is the 1970s and you just cut aging players loose and plug in new ones without having to deal with how it affects your cap number

Guess what? Nothing lasts forever (1960s Packers/1970s Steelers/1980s 49ers/1990s Cowboys).

I know you going to throw the Patriots back at me but, once again, guess what? - they have not won a Lombardi since 2004 and currently have one of the worst defenses in the league - so please point out to me a team without some major weaknesses somewhere that has a front office that has done a consistently better job over the last 10 years

A final point - this is not fantasy football - the other teams are trying to win as well - even in sports where you have significant salary disparities sometimes the better stocked team still loses (ask the Red Sox, Yankees and Phillies how that works)

In closing, out of curiosity how old are you? You apparently assume that teams you root for are entitled to and are going to win forever - if you have been paying attention to how pro sports operates for any length of time you should know that is not how it works

Dan you are making too much sense, slow down and let it sink in slowly.........:hatsoff:

WickedSteel
10-08-2011, 09:10 PM
Would you at least try to get a grip?

The league is designed to have turnover at the top of the heap - that is what the draft and salary cap are designed to achieve

You appear to believe it is the 1970s and you just cut aging players loose and plug in new ones without having to deal with how it affects your cap number

Guess what? Nothing lasts forever (1960s Packers/1970s Steelers/1980s 49ers/1990s Cowboys).

I know you going to throw the Patriots back at me but, once again, guess what? - they have not won a Lombardi since 2004 and currently have one of the worst defenses in the league - so please point out to me a team without some major weaknesses somewhere that has a front office that has done a consistently better job over the last 10 years

A final point - this is not fantasy football - the other teams are trying to win as well - even in sports where you have significant salary disparities sometimes the better stocked team still loses (ask the Red Sox, Yankees and Phillies how that works)

In closing, out of curiosity how old are you? You apparently assume that teams you root for are entitled to and are going to win forever - if you have been paying attention to how pro sports operates for any length of time you should know that is not how it works

Don't throw my age at me or question my intelligence. I have watched the Steelers for 20 years and have seen the best of the best and the worst of the worst. I have been a Pens fan just as long and have seen the same there. I fully understand how sports work and know that there are rebuilding years and good years. The Lions are a good example. They had stunk for so many years and it resulted in them stockpiling loads of talent and it is finally paying off.

I am not feeling entitled to anything. I am just stating my frustrations with the FO and BA. I know that they can't work miracles but it seems as if they have dropped the ball lately. My biggest concern is that Ben will eventually get hurt bad behind the ever changing O line and that too many years will be lost with the young talent that they have. Ben isn't going to play forever. Neither will Wallace, Brown or Sanders. If they spend too many years rebuilding, they will lose those guys eventually.

Aussie Steeler
10-08-2011, 10:43 PM
Only criticism warranted by the FO is that they is investing a whole heap of money into our perrenial defense. In doing so they have, to an exent, let our offensive line depth dip. With that said, even with this group of people, if we had a healthy offensive line, I still think we can make another SB trip. Glad they signed fat boy Starks - I think he can make a difference.

finesward
10-09-2011, 06:54 AM
Fart time hear this

Atlanta Dan
10-09-2011, 07:09 AM
Don't throw my age at me or question my intelligence. I have watched the Steelers for 20 years and have seen the best of the best and the worst of the worst. .

If you have been watching the Steelers for 20 years I estimate you started watching around the time Cowher arrived - in which case you have some fairly inflated expectations and apparently assume 2 Super Bowl wins, 4 Super Bowl appearances and 8 AFC championship game appearances since 1992 is what is to be expected for a properly run franchise - it's not - it is truly exceptional

Since you obviously regard yourself to be a pretty smart guy, you no doubt are familiar with the statistical theory of of reversion to the mean - consider the possibility that it has some applicability to the performance of pro sports teams and that absent some inherent advantage over competitors (e.g. - in baseball some teams consistently can buy up more talent) the success of the Steelers over the past 2 decades, which you apparently regard to be expected, is an outlier that is unlikely to continue indefinitely for reasons other than an "incompetent" FO

P.S. - some of us started watching the NFL before you did. Unless you were watching during the late Noll years (1 playoff appearance in his last 7 seasons - 1988 was a particular lowlight) you have not seen the worst of the worst when it comes to Steelers football over the last 4 decades

Bayz101
10-09-2011, 09:15 AM
If you have been watching the Steelers for 20 years I estimate you started watching around the time Cowher arrived - in which case you have some fairly inflated expectations and apparently assume 2 Super Bowl wins, 4 Super Bowl appearances and 8 AFC championship game appearances since 1992 is what is to be expected for a properly run franchise - it's not - it is truly exceptional

Since you obviously regard yourself to be a pretty smart guy, you no doubt are familiar with the statistical theory of of reversion to the mean - consider the possibility that it has some applicability to the performance of pro sports teams and that absent some inherent advantage over competitors (e.g. - in baseball some teams consistently can buy up more talent) the success of the Steelers over the past 2 decades, which you apparently regard to be expected, is an outlier that is unlikely to continue indefinitely for reasons other than an "incompetent" FO

P.S. - some of us started watching the NFL before you did. Unless you were watching during the late Noll years (1 playoff appearance in his last 7 seasons - 1988 was a particular lowlight) you have not seen the worst of the worst when it comes to Steelers football over the last 4 decades

No disrespect to anyone, but in my honest opinion. How long you've watched the Steelers play, doesn't matter. Because every September starts off a new season, and with that, the past is no longer relevant. I look forward to each and every year of Steelers football, and my eyes are on what we can do this year, not what we could have done last year.

Bayz101
10-09-2011, 09:16 AM
Although I can admit, looking back on those 6 superbowls is a beautiful sight.

TRH
10-09-2011, 09:17 AM
They should have been quietly addressing this issue over the past two seasons. How they can sit there and allow their $100 million QB to get destroyed game after game while keeping the same inept, patchwork O line and expecting different results is beyond me.

The other high paid QBs in the league have good O lines and game plans that have them get rid of the ball quickly to avoid even taking a hit let alone a sack. Ben has been SACKED 14 times in 4 games and hit dozens more. How many times has Brady been sacked? ONCE.

We're too busy signing linebackers to worry about putting a high-caliber OL on the field. Why would you want to protect a $100 million QB?
I'd love to see Brady play behind this line. Now THAT would be funny.

solardave
10-09-2011, 09:30 AM
Has anyone heard Ben complain about the line? I haven't. We have injury problems and I think it's time to plug Ziggy and Heyward into the system so we can get some production out of our "over paid LBs". Some of you guys sound like you believe we should cut Woodley and Timmons to clear up the o-line problem. Doesn't make sense. You make them worth the money they're being paid. It's been said Ben is a 100 mil QB. Is he playing like one? Hell no. It's the supporting cast up front that needs to play better. Look at the Packers last year. They won it all with like 5 players on IR. The guys in line stepped up. Ours need to too.

Atlanta Dan
10-09-2011, 09:33 AM
No disrespect to anyone, but in my honest opinion. How long you've watched the Steelers play, doesn't matter. Because every September starts off a new season, and with that, the past is no longer relevant. I look forward to each and every year of Steelers football, and my eyes are on what we can do this year, not what we could have done last year.

My point is that if you are going to claim you have seen the worst of the worst it helps your argument if you actually have seen it

I am not saying having watched the Steelers for a longer period of time somehow makes you a better fan

Truman_sparks
10-09-2011, 10:47 AM
Back to my original point. The team thought they could replace Starks at LT with Jon Scott.. Huge mistake. They ended up bringing him back in anyway. Then Colon goes down, and they look for no help on the line, just move Gilbert, a rookie, over. He's probably going to be good, but isn't now - and Ben is getting killed.

Yes, you can't be great at every position, but isn't the O line more important to be solid on an NFL team than having 6 dozen freaking linebackers! This team has more money invested in LB's than any other position, at the expense of others. Baltimore brought in two of the highest touted FA O linemen, we ignored ours, in fact, let two starters walk.
My whole point is the FO failed when they again didn't address the O line, and when Colon went out, a guy they were highly counting on, they DID NOTHING!

WickedSteel
10-09-2011, 10:54 AM
That's right. Ben doesn't need an elite O line, just a decent one. He can escape the pressure most of the time when it's only one guy getting through. The high paid LBs need the D line to be play strong in order to be productive. The D line isn't gobbling up blocker like they have in the past and the LBs are ineffective now.

dcsteel5804
10-09-2011, 11:10 AM
In general, the thing that bothers me most about this forum is the criticism posters get when questioning the Steelers FO. Look, this line is crap. The FO has not invested enough money / high draft picks in the line to protect their 100M dollar man. I don't care how you slice it, its true. If someone wants to gripe about it, this should be his forum. If you don't like it, there's a back button, use it. If you disagree, state why you disagree, but responses like "the sky is falling", and "what are you complaining about, we have 6 rings" are just default home answers. Get a brain and think. Why do you disagree? The people complaining are presenting arguments on why they think the line sucks and have stats and data to back that up. If you can't respond with a coherent answer that refutes the complaint, just keep it moving and STFU... That is all...

SunshineMan21
10-09-2011, 06:33 PM
In general, the thing that bothers me most about this forum is the criticism posters get when questioning the Steelers FO. Look, this line is crap. The FO has not invested enough money / high draft picks in the line to protect their 100M dollar man. I don't care how you slice it, its true. If someone wants to gripe about it, this should be his forum. If you don't like it, there's a back button, use it. If you disagree, state why you disagree, but responses like "the sky is falling", and "what are you complaining about, we have 6 rings" are just default home answers. Get a brain and think. Why do you disagree? The people complaining are presenting arguments on why they think the line sucks and have stats and data to back that up. If you can't respond with a coherent answer that refutes the complaint, just keep it moving and STFU... That is all...

As much as "the sky is falling" comments annoy me, this guy is right.

Just because you question the FO doesn't mean you're somehow not a fan. I think our FO is among the best in the game (and I doubt many would disagree)--but that doesn't mean they're infallible. And it would be much less fun if we didn't debate the merits of their approaches.

That said, football teams have limited resources, and we basically just don't have enough cap space to sign elite O-linemen on top of having an elite defense, franchise QB, and star WRs. If you think we should have let somebody like Woodley, Troy, Timmons, or Harrison go, that's your opinion, but if you want a better O-line there's going to be a cost to that.

Besides, the FO is obviously concerned about the O-line, we just spend high draft picks on Urbik, Pouncey, and Gilbert in successive years.

xbroughneck
10-09-2011, 07:03 PM
In general, the thing that bothers me most about this forum is the criticism posters get when questioning the Steelers FO. Look, this line is crap. The FO has not invested enough money / high draft picks in the line to protect their 100M dollar man. I don't care how you slice it, its true. If someone wants to gripe about it, this should be his forum. If you don't like it, there's a back button, use it. If you disagree, state why you disagree, but responses like "the sky is falling", and "what are you complaining about, we have 6 rings" are just default home answers. Get a brain and think. Why do you disagree? The people complaining are presenting arguments on why they think the line sucks and have stats and data to back that up. If you can't respond with a coherent answer that refutes the complaint, just keep it moving and STFU... That is all...

Agree with this post.

ETL
10-09-2011, 07:26 PM
Given a salary cap - the money had to go somewhere - and it went to the defense.

And if we did what the gripers said we did (i.e. put all the money on the OL) - the gripers would be complaining how we didn't spend any money on the defense.

Gripers will always exist and they will always have something to gripe about.