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View Full Version : File charges against Martha Fleishman (person who hit Ben)


steelersfan113
06-14-2006, 01:21 AM
File charges against Martha Fleishman. If you haven't read my post in Big Ben's motorcycle thread here it is:

Unfortunately for him he wasn't wearing his helmet which he was criticized heavily for by virtually everyone. Sure wearing his helmet probably would've prevented some of his injuries. However last time I checked the law said the person who caused the accident is at fault not the person who forgot to wear their safety belt or helmet.

What angers me the most is how no one is lashing out at the truly careless person that hit him. Sure accidents happen, but this lady was negligent enough to not even look forward as she made a turn onto a busy intersection.

If I were Ben's family, I sue her for every penny she has. Not for money but for punishment of her carelessness and the pain she's brought upon so many people. When the report comes out in the next few days, it will confirm the accident was indeed her fault (as explained by eye witnesses).

Her name is Martha Fleishman. Hopefully someone will do the right thing and file charges against her.

If this woman still doesn't receive any of the blame after the accident report comes out, some letters definitely need to be written is all I have to say.

Steelers
06-14-2006, 01:28 AM
I couldn't see Ben and Co. taking "every penny she's got" from an old lady, but I think a public apology would be more than appropriate.

steelersfan113
06-14-2006, 01:31 AM
I think theres more in order than just a simple apology. Think about what would've happened if he was killed. I think the term would be MAN SLAUGHTER. You're probably right, they won't press charges just to keep a good rep, but that doesn't mean others shouldn't.

Ohio Steeler
06-14-2006, 01:33 AM
ok I really dont see Ben going after her for many reason's.. 1 is if he was driving with no DL for the bike that would not look goodon his part and 2nd it would look bad for him to go after a 62 year old lady, How ever I do see her going after him for the no DL thing just cause he is who he is...

Large_Ant
06-14-2006, 01:36 AM
You've got to be kidding me. Some old lady makes a mistake and you want her life destroyed? Would you say the same thing if the guy she hit wasn't a coveted member of your favorite football team?

The woman deserves whatever penalty a person who makes an illegal turn gets under Pennsylvania law. Nothing more, nothing less. And she damn sure doesn't owe "a public apology" just because the person she injured happened to be a football star. That's just ridiculous.

And if Roethlisberger the multi-millionaire sues an old lady "for every penny she's got", that would make him a first class chump. He seems like far too classy of a guy to even be thinking about doing something like that. It's more likely that the first thing he'll do if he ever meets the lady is sign an autograph and tell her it's okay.

The Portland Press Herald in Maine identified the driver of the 1996 Chrysler New Yorker in the crash as 62-year-old Martha Fleishman. Her husband, Martin Fleishman, said his wife was not hurt.

He said he and his wife wish Roethlisberger "a speedy and complete recovery."
http://www.thewbalchannel.com/sports/9356237/detail.html?rss=bal&psp=nationalnews

Steelers
06-14-2006, 01:44 AM
And she damn sure doesn't owe "a public apology" just because the person she injured happened to be a football star. That's just ridiculous.

I meant in lieu of a fine. Not in addition to. Doesn't sound too rediculous. Like if a certain Pitt student was cited for underage drinking and he did community service and attended a class in lieu of a fine. :cool:

EDIT:
"He said he and his wife wish Roethlisberger "a speedy and complete recovery."
OK That counts.

Steelersfan
06-14-2006, 01:56 AM
File charges against Martha Fleishman. If you haven't read my post in Big Ben's motorcycle thread here it is:



If this woman still doesn't receive any of the blame after the accident report comes out, some letters definitely need to be written is all I have to say.

Are you kidding me? I am ashamed to be a Steelers fan right now with a fellow fan saying that crap.

I've been defending Bens legal rights to not wear a helmet if he so chooses on other sites and still believe that he has the right to not wear one if he doesn't want to and thought those calling him an idiot (among other names) were idiots and selfish fans themselves. I would never ask any athlete to give up the right to do things like motorcycles, skiing, etc in there spare time. It's just not right.
Then I heard he was driving without a liscense so now I say Ben was the idiot. Not because he wasn't wearing a helmet but because he shouldn't have been driving the bike period! So guess who's at fault and guess who will probably be the one getting sued?
That's right, Ben.

steelersfan113
06-14-2006, 01:56 AM
Ok forget the sueing for money part, since many seem to be hung up on that. What I'm trying to say is everyone is trying to put all the blame on Ben for not wearing his helmet, when this lady isn't even being blammed for the accident which was almost entirely her fault.

What I think should happen?

- She gets several points on her drivers license for wreckless driving.
- She has to go to some driving classes to see if she is still fit to drive (62 yrs old)
- Issue personal apology to Roethisberger and his family taking responsibility for her actions.
- Possible community service

And no I wouldn't care as much if it was someone else. But since it is someone I care about I want this lady prosecuted to the full extent of the law so she gets what she deserves.

Steelersfan
06-14-2006, 02:00 AM
Ok forget the sueing for money part, since many seem to be hung up on that. What I'm trying to say is everyone is trying to put all the blame on Ben for not wearing his helmet, when this lady isn't even being blammed for the accident which was almost entirely her fault.

What I think should happen?

- She gets several points on her drivers license for wreckless driving.
- She has to go to some driving classes to see if she is still fit to drive (62 yrs old)
- Issue personal apology to Roethisberger and his family taking responsibility for her actions.
- Possible community service

And no I wouldn't care as much if it was someone else. But since it is someone I care about I want this lady prosecuted to the full extent of the law so she gets what she deserves.

That would all be fine if it was her fault. Too bad Ben decided to drive without a liscense. Now it is all his fault because he should have never been driving to begin with.

steelersfan113
06-14-2006, 02:00 AM
Are you kidding me? I am ashamed to be a Steelers fan right now with a fellow fan saying that crap.

I've been defending Bens legal rights to not wear a helmet if he so chooses on other sites and still believe that he has the right to not wear one if he doesn't want to and thought those calling him an idiot (among other names) were idiots and selfish fans themselves. I would never ask any athlete to give up the right to do things like motorcycles, skiing, etc in there spare time. It's just not right.
Then I heard he was driving without a liscense so now I say Ben was the idiot. Not because he wasn't wearing a helmet but because he shouldn't have been driving the bike period! So guess who's at fault and guess who will probably be the one getting sued?
That's right, Ben.

I doubt there will be lawsuits since it's probably not in either party's nature. I'm looking at the legal reprecussions that will be enstated by the police. Ben will probablybe fined for not having a license and this lady who hit him should have her license revoked.

BigSteelThrill
06-14-2006, 02:07 AM
That would all be fine if it was her fault. Too bad Ben decided to drive without a liscense. Now it is all his fault because he should have never been driving to begin with.


Well f*cking said.

Koopa
06-14-2006, 02:09 AM
yeah i'm with my boi steelersfan, that is just plain stupid to suggest, leave the old hag alone, she probably feel bad enough that this accident happened. nothing serious happened to ben other then the ladies ain't gonna like him anymore. lets just move on and again no need to bother the old lady

Steel Pit
06-14-2006, 04:55 AM
She's an old lady, cut her some slack. If it would have been an 18 year old male that pulled out in front of Ben some of us would be calling him a reckless driving punk. The lady made a mistake that thousands of people make every day. There was no recklessness on her part. Reckless driving is defined as "Operating a motor vehicle with willful and wanton disregard to the safety of persons and or property." That definition is certainly not applicable in this case.

The old lady was definitelyat fault in the crash and she will most likely receive a citation for "failure to yield the right of way to oncoming vehicles". It's a minor infraction that carries no jail time. She will have to pay a fine that is somewhat enhanced because the violation caused a motor vehicle crash. The Department of Motor Vehicles might summons the old lady in and require that she perform a driving test to ensure that she has the ability to satisfactorily operate a motor vehicle. The lady's insurance company will be responsible for Ben's medical expenses and the replacement of his motorcycle. The insurance company will also pay Ben for pain and suffering, which depending on the insurance company, ranges anywhere from 2 to 4 times his medical expenses.

Ben on the other hand is facing more of a penalty than the old lady. Riding a motorcycle without a motorcycle endorsement can land you in jail for a maximum of 6 months. I seriously doubt that Ben will receive any jail time but I'm guessing that he will be placed on non-reporting probation. He will also be required to complete some type of community service, most likely speaking to motorcyclist about the hazards of riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

In closing I want to metion this. If anyone does decide to send the old lady a threatening/harassing letter or message, they will without question, spend enough time in jail to miss the entire 2006 NFL regular season.:busted:

BlackNGold203
06-14-2006, 07:13 AM
*shakes head*

Why dont we just hang her publically at Heinz Field?


OHHH..I know!!...we can do it on 9/7/06...on national TV...before the fins game!!!

PUHLEEEZ....drop this will ya??? It was an accident...like hundreds of thousands of other accidents. Enough of this crap. Ben..heal..get better...we need ya....but please....enough vilifying of this woman.

Lyn
06-14-2006, 07:19 AM
Come on everyone now this is just plain silly. DROP IT. Our beloved quarterback is going to be fine, be thankful don't be out to get anyone on this, keep in mind our beloved quarterback was riding against the law so if you have to place blame when you should be thanking GOD.........you go for it but our darling qb was also a lawbreaker.

ARKIESTEEL
06-14-2006, 08:18 AM
That lady didnt no more mean to hurt Ben than the man on the moon. I bet she feels real bad about the whole deal

BBC
06-14-2006, 09:37 AM
Do we really want her name on public display?

BAS
06-14-2006, 10:28 AM
Ok forget the sueing for money part, since many seem to be hung up on that. What I'm trying to say is everyone is trying to put all the blame on Ben for not wearing his helmet, when this lady isn't even being blammed for the accident which was almost entirely her fault.

What I think should happen?

- She gets several points on her drivers license for wreckless driving.
- She has to go to some driving classes to see if she is still fit to drive (62 yrs old)
- Issue personal apology to Roethisberger and his family taking responsibility for her actions.
- Possible community service

And no I wouldn't care as much if it was someone else. But since it is someone I care about I want this lady prosecuted to the full extent of the law so she gets what she deserves.

You're letting your emotional attachment to a football team cloud your rational judgement.

I suppose you've never in your life made a mistake while driving. Never tried to beat a red light, never "not seen" the stop sign, never switched lanes without signalling and never cut off another driver.

Shit happens... she didn't see him coming and made her turn. It was an accident, not a malicious attempt to eliminate a motorcycle riding NFL quarterback.

Suitanim
06-14-2006, 10:29 AM
I bet 90% of motorcycle accidents happen this way...old people don't see as well, and, unless you want to try and take on the AARP and try and get their drivers licenses all revoked, it's not gonna change. Hell, when I was in my big wreck in December, it was an older woman who looked RIGHT AT ME and still pulled out right in front of me. This shit is just going to unfortunately happen from time to time...no need to go on a witch hunt over it.

Steelers
06-14-2006, 10:45 AM
Hey, it's like this. Our hero was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, sans helmet and license. Old lady was just a part of the picture.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-14-2006, 10:58 AM
Come on everyone now this is just plain silly. DROP IT. Our beloved quarterback is going to be fine, be thankful don't be out to get anyone on this, keep in mind our beloved quarterback was riding against the law so if you have to place blame when you should be thanking GOD.........you go for it but our darling qb was also a lawbreaker.



Until my lovely wife can quit putting on makeup...talking on the cellphone...and driving at the same time....I will withold judgement on others recklessness:smile: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

caseydog
06-14-2006, 12:15 PM
You've got to be kidding me. Some old lady makes a mistake and you want her life destroyed? Would you say the same thing if the guy she hit wasn't a coveted member of your favorite football team?

The woman deserves whatever penalty a person who makes an illegal turn gets under Pennsylvania law. Nothing more, nothing less. And she damn sure doesn't owe "a public apology" just because the person she injured happened to be a football star. That's just ridiculous.

And if Roethlisberger the multi-millionaire sues an old lady "for every penny she's got", that would make him a first class chump. He seems like far too classy of a guy to even be thinking about doing something like that. It's more likely that the first thing he'll do if he ever meets the lady is sign an autograph and tell her it's okay.


http://www.thewbalchannel.com/sports/9356237/detail.html?rss=bal&psp=nationalnews


I am Automotive editor for a car magazine, and I have had a ton of advance driver training. I belong to a motorsports country club, and suit up an take to the track as often as others play golf. I even completed a Police Academy driving course for an article -- I scored second highest in my class.

Bottom line -- I am an above-average driver. AND, I still could have made the same mistake that the 62 year-old lady who hit Ben made.

I have two accidents on my 29 year driving record. They were both bonehead mistakes on my part. Luckily, nobody was injured. It only takes a few seconds of distraction to make an accident happen.

Be careful how you judge this woman. On any given day, you could find yourself in her shoes.

CD

BlackNGold203
06-14-2006, 02:35 PM
I am Automotive editor for a car magazine, and I have had a ton of advance driver training. I belong to a motorsports country club, and suit up an take to the track as often as others play golf. I even completed a Police Academy driving course for an article -- I scored second highest in my class.

Bottom line -- I am an above-average driver. AND, I still could have made the same mistake that the 62 year-old lady who hit Ben made.

I have two accidents on my 29 year driving record. They were both bonehead mistakes on my part. Luckily, nobody was injured. It only takes a few seconds of distraction to make an accident happen.

Be careful how you judge this woman. On any given day, you could find yourself in her shoes.

CD


AMEN....nuff said about it

SteelShooter
06-14-2006, 10:18 PM
That would all be fine if it was her fault. Too bad Ben decided to drive without a liscense. Now it is all his fault because he should have never been driving to begin with.

Finally, some common sense.

Many, if not most, states will automatically fault a non-licensed driver in an accident whether that driver was the cause or not. The same with insurance, or hitting someone in the rear. No matter what the circumstance, if it happens without one person being licensed.....it's their fault, period!

Let's hope that Mrs Fleischman (sp?) doesn't start salivating at the prospect of gaining a portion of Ben's hard earned millions.

Stlrs4Life
06-14-2006, 11:09 PM
File charges against Martha Fleishman. If you haven't read my post in Big Ben's motorcycle thread here it is:



If this woman still doesn't receive any of the blame after the accident report comes out, some letters definitely need to be written is all I have to say.





Is she at fault, yes she is according to all reports as of now. And she should get charged. Her insurance company will cover her in this accident. But for Ben and family to sue the lady? That would be very ignorant on Bens part. Nobody feels worse than her right now. I feel sorry for her also. She has to live with this the rest of her life knowing that she almost killed a person.

24seven
06-14-2006, 11:11 PM
this thread disgusts me.. I can't believe a simple mistake can be blown so out of proportion. Make Ben an unknown and you got everyday life in anytown USA.. Get Granny some glasses, divy out the fines and such and let life go on..

Stlrs4Life
06-14-2006, 11:20 PM
She's an old lady, cut her some slack. If it would have been an 18 year old male that pulled out in front of Ben some of us would be calling him a reckless driving punk. The lady made a mistake that thousands of people make every day. There was no recklessness on her part. Reckless driving is defined as "Operating a motor vehicle with willful and wanton disregard to the safety of persons and or property." That definition is certainly not applicable in this case.

The old lady was definitelyat fault in the crash and she will most likely receive a citation for "failure to yield the right of way to oncoming vehicles". It's a minor infraction that carries no jail time. She will have to pay a fine that is somewhat enhanced because the violation caused a motor vehicle crash. The Department of Motor Vehicles might summons the old lady in and require that she perform a driving test to ensure that she has the ability to satisfactorily operate a motor vehicle. The lady's insurance company will be responsible for Ben's medical expenses and the replacement of his motorcycle. The insurance company will also pay Ben for pain and suffering, which depending on the insurance company, ranges anywhere from 2 to 4 times his medical expenses.

Ben on the other hand is facing more of a penalty than the old lady. Riding a motorcycle without a motorcycle endorsement can land you in jail for a maximum of 6 months. I seriously doubt that Ben will receive any jail time but I'm guessing that he will be placed on non-reporting probation. He will also be required to complete some type of community service, most likely speaking to motorcyclist about the hazards of riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

In closing I want to metion this. If anyone does decide to send the old lady a threatening/harassing letter or message, they will without question, spend enough time in jail to miss the entire 2006 NFL regular season.:busted:


Exactly, excellent post!

Hawk Believer
06-15-2006, 12:18 AM
Congrats to the Steeler fans on this board for decisevely resiting the lynch mob mentality that is easy to fall into during emotional times.

One question I have yet to hear answered is if excessive speed was involved. Even if it was, the woman probably should have seen it. But it does remain possible that Ben may have played some fault. Guess that is why we should wait for the investigation report before convicting.

Regarding motorcycle riding and accidents... Here is my anecdotal perspective on how they occurr.

I think by far most accidents are the fault of the rider. Mostly young guys who are riding bigger engines than they should faster then they should. Occasional the rider is buzzed or high. But most accidents I believe are caused because riding a bike is too damn fun and people don't have the experience to know when they have exceeded the limits of their control.

Then there are the accidents where the rider is doing everything fine and someone just doesn't see them. Some drivers with great driving records and more with poor ones just won't see the rider because they aren't what we're programmed to be looking for and just plain harder to see.

Cognitively judging the speed of a cycle, especially at night ,is harder because we can normally judge the velocity of an oncoming object like a car by seeing how quickly two parallel points (headlights) are spreading apart. The reduced width and singleheadlight of a motorcycle limits our ability to do this.

Its the latter type of accident (along with the ones caused by unexpected road contitions) that have quashed any desire of mine to ride a motorcyle. I hope I would have the discipline to not ride too fast for conditions and I know I would never ride high or drunk. And if I did and got into an accidentlike that I would at least have the comfort of knowing that what happened was a direct consequence of a choice I made for myself. But I have worked with too many guys with brain injuries or limbs torn off or lost to gangrene who had been riding safely for decades only to be mowed over by a regular driver who just didn't see them. In car vs motorcycle, the motorcyclist invariably loses.

I am not saying that I think motorcycles should be banned or anything. But I do think that even if you are doing everything possible to stack the odds in your favor (driving the speed limit, wearing a helmet) you have to realize that you are at a far greater risk of serious injury or death when riding a bike. I don't like the thought of giving that much control of my own well being to the people I drive next to on the freeway. I therefore feel the risks of riding a motorcycle greatly are greatly outweighed by my responsibilty to the people who care about me and to whom I am accountable.

Anyway, that turned into a bit of a manifesto. Do people who actually ride think that makes any sense?

Edited to remove name of driver from my post

Hammer67
06-15-2006, 07:23 AM
Ok forget the sueing for money part, since many seem to be hung up on that. What I'm trying to say is everyone is trying to put all the blame on Ben for not wearing his helmet, when this lady isn't even being blammed for the accident which was almost entirely her fault.

What I think should happen?

- She gets several points on her drivers license for wreckless driving.
- She has to go to some driving classes to see if she is still fit to drive (62 yrs old)
- Issue personal apology to Roethisberger and his family taking responsibility for her actions.
- Possible community service

And no I wouldn't care as much if it was someone else. But since it is someone I care about I want this lady prosecuted to the full extent of the law so she gets what she deserves.

No offense but your insistence on her being charged or punished sounds ridiculous. Accidents happen. Everyone who drives has made mistakes before. If you are familiar with this intersection, there are many accidents there. Why would you suggest that this woman be punished more then anyone else who was involved in a traffic accident there? Are you saying you never made a mistake? It comes across as selfish and unenlightened as this wouldn't even be discussed if it wasn't a football player involved. When riding a bike, you take your chances. Sometimes people don't see them.

Jesus, people. What's wrong with some of you? I bet the lady feels guilty enough...wouldn't you? :rolleyes:

Hammer67
06-15-2006, 07:27 AM
this thread disgusts me.. I can't believe a simple mistake can be blown so out of proportion. Make Ben an unknown and you got everyday life in anytown USA.. Get Granny some glasses, divy out the fines and such and let life go on..

I couldn't agree more...I was so disgusted when i read this new board member's post at the top of the thread that I was going to steer clear but I had to comment. People are just, strange.

m_and_mh
06-19-2006, 05:26 PM
I got one thing to say. Millions, probaly billions of accidents happen every day. This woman is already recieving threats and stuff. Just let her be. Her rep is already in the toilet, she HAS to be feeling guilty. She got fined. She will probaly have to move because no one is going to leave her alone. She's sixty two years old. I think she everyone ought to just leave the lady alone. She got fined, and if I were her I would be very depressed. So just leave the poor lady alone.
I don't think Ben will sue her, since he wasn't wearing a helmet, and he doens't have a license. He knows when he won't win.
There was minimal harm done. Let's all just keep our fingers crossed that Ben is will be on the field for the first game. Worse could have happened