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Opt2loc
11-03-2011, 03:44 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/hot?id=7178216

I'll take Clayton's analysis over Ashley Fox's any day.

Sizzle
11-03-2011, 03:46 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/hot?id=7178216

I'll take Clayton's analysis over Ashley Fox's any day

Same :D

SH-Rock
11-03-2011, 03:59 PM
Well you don't know which Flacco you would see each week. Some weeks he's absolutely insane, others I'm thinking he's average at best.

SteelCityMom
11-03-2011, 04:00 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/hot?id=7178216

I'll take Clayton's analysis over Ashley Fox's any day

:chuckle: I'm sure you will. The only reason I kept reading Claytons analysis after the first sentence was to see what kind of delusion would make him want to type that sentence. And even after reading it, I have no clue how the reasons he uses make Flacco an elite quarterback. They are a stretch at best, and to be honest...mostly just laughable to me (and that is not coming from the Raven hating side of my brain, it's from the rational side).

So, onto the reasons he claims Flacco is an elite QB.

- "Flacco came back using shotgun formation and spread throwing sets that enabled him to lead the greatest comeback in Ravens history, overcoming a 24-3 deficit in what turned out to be a thrilling 30-27 victory."

Seriously? That was against the Cardinals...in Baltimore no less. Was it a great performance? Sure it was...but an elite QB would not have been down 24-3 against the ****ing pathetic Cardinals...in Baltimore.

- "In Minnesota, Flacco generated three fourth-quarter touchdown drives. That forced Favre to counter with a field goal drive that gave the Vikings a lead. Flacco marched the Ravens back into field goal range, but Steven Hauschka (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11923/steven-hauschka) missed what should have been the game winner."

That's a bit better than the previous reason I suppose, but it's still really, really weak.

Basically, he sums it up by saying that to be an elite QB, you need to be able to generate 4th quarter drives, and that Flacco has that ability. Then he just sort of meanders on till the end of the column. Clayton is seriously delusional if he thinks that's all it takes to be an elite QB. That isn't even scratching the surface of what it takes to be an elite QB in this league.

I'll have to side with Fox on this one though. I don't even consider Ben to be an elite QB (yet), and his stats and winning percentage are far and away greater than Flacco's. So there is just no way I can be convinced that Flacco has reached elite status yet. He's just way too inconsistent to have earned that title yet. Anyone who thinks of him as one now is just being a complete homer.

Fox also brings a much more complete and rational argument to the discussion. None of what she states is based on completely loose arguments...so she takes the cake for me.

Not everybody gets the "elite" status.

Fire Arians
11-03-2011, 04:13 PM
NFL Forum ->

stb_steeler
11-03-2011, 04:20 PM
:chuckle: I'm sure you will. The only reason I kept reading Claytons analysis after the first sentence was to see what kind of delusion would make him want to type that sentence. And even after reading it, I have no clue how the reasons he uses make Flacco an elite quarterback. They are a stretch at best, and to be honest...mostly just laughable to me (and that is not coming from the Raven hating side of my brain, it's from the rational side).

So, onto the reasons he claims Flacco is an elite QB.

- "Flacco came back using shotgun formation and spread throwing sets that enabled him to lead the greatest comeback in Ravens history, overcoming a 24-3 deficit in what turned out to be a thrilling 30-27 victory."

Seriously? That was against the Cardinals...in Baltimore no less. Was it a great performance? Sure it was...but an elite QB would not have been down 24-3 against the ****ing pathetic Cardinals...in Baltimore.

- "In Minnesota, Flacco generated three fourth-quarter touchdown drives. That forced Favre to counter with a field goal drive that gave the Vikings a lead. Flacco marched the Ravens back into field goal range, but Steven Hauschka (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11923/steven-hauschka) missed what should have been the game winner."

That's a bit better than the previous reason I suppose, but it's still really, really weak.

Basically, he sums it up by saying that to be an elite QB, you need to be able to generate 4th quarter drives, and that Flacco has that ability. Then he just sort of meanders on till the end of the column. Clayton is seriously delusional if he thinks that's all it takes to be an elite QB. That isn't even scratching the surface of what it takes to be an elite QB in this league.

I'll have to side with Fox on this one though. I don't even consider Ben to be an elite QB (yet), and his stats and winning percentage are far and away greater than Flacco's. So there is just no way I can be convinced that Flacco has reached elite status yet. He's just way too inconsistent to have earned that title yet. Anyone who thinks of him as one now is just being a complete homer.

Fox also brings a much more complete and rational argument to the discussion. None of what she states is based on completely loose arguments...so she takes the cake for me.

Not everybody gets the "elite" status.

I cant but help only a very short year ago, they were calling for Flacco's head and how bad he was at managing the game and choking when it counts. To me that doesnt even rate any where near an elite QB.......I tell ya! some peoples children.:doh:

Atlanta Dan
11-03-2011, 04:35 PM
Accortding to Clayton 13 of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL are "elite" - that works out to 40% of the QBs being "elite":noidea:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/preview11/story/_/id/6898795/from-tom-brady-andy-dalton-espn-john-clayton-ranks-nfl-starting-qbs

Clayton's NFL is the equivalent of the town of Lake Woebegon on the Prarie Home Companion show where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average"

SteelCityMom
11-03-2011, 04:59 PM
I cant but help only a very short year ago, they were calling for Flacco's head and how bad he was at managing the game and choking when it counts. To me that doesnt even rate any where near an elite QB.......I tell ya! some peoples children.:doh:

You don't even have to look back as far as last year to find that. Any Ravens forum I've visited still holds that overall sentiment today. There are those that will support him and feel he has the potential to do much better, but I've never, ever heard him called an elite QB...even from the majority of Ravens fans.

SteelCityMom
11-03-2011, 05:06 PM
Accortding to Clayton 13 of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL are "elite" - that works out to 40% of the QBs being "elite":noidea:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/preview11/story/_/id/6898795/from-tom-brady-andy-dalton-espn-john-clayton-ranks-nfl-starting-qbs

Clayton's NFL is the equivalent of the town of Lake Woebegon on the Prarie Home Companion show where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average"

Yeah, that list is pretty ridiculous. Apparently all it takes to be an elite QB to him is to have a few splash games and maybe win a playoff game or two (including two QBs who haven't even sniffed a playoff field is insane).

My elite list would have stopped at Brees.

Steelersfan87
11-03-2011, 05:49 PM
Clayton thinks half the league has elite quarterbacks. Flacco may be a franchise quarterback, or will be in the near future, but he is by no means elite. Elite, by definition, is a narrow classification.

Curtain_of_Steel
11-03-2011, 05:54 PM
He is a 27th ranked QB for a reason.

The same reason why the Ravens have yet to give him a new contract which has him all pissed off about.

Curtain_of_Steel
11-03-2011, 05:54 PM
Ravens will win a superbowl(if) based on their def, not offense. Can you say Dilfer?

MACH1
11-03-2011, 06:11 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WHCqvDpfgks/SxM001LonUI/AAAAAAAAABo/_mKb9DvA3TI/s1600/Lewis+Flacco+Bert+Ernie.jpg

Atlanta Dan
11-03-2011, 06:43 PM
Ravens will win a superbowl(if) based on their def, not offense. Can you say Dilfer?

That model worked for Baltimore in 2000 and Tampa Bay in 2002, but it is hard to skate by with a game manager QB in today's flag football version of the NFL

GMU Steeler
11-03-2011, 09:22 PM
Accortding to Clayton 13 of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL are "elite" - that works out to 40% of the QBs being "elite":noidea:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/preview11/story/_/id/6898795/from-tom-brady-andy-dalton-espn-john-clayton-ranks-nfl-starting-qbs

Clayton's NFL is the equivalent of the town of Lake Woebegon on the Prarie Home Companion show where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average"
Yeah he's being too generous with the word "elite." I think Flacco's a ogod QB potentially a very good one but elite? No, that's the best of the best. Flacco's way too inconsistent to be that right now. In my opinion the machine that makes the Ravens' offense work is Ray Rce.

Opt2loc
11-08-2011, 02:38 PM
One thing he was on Sunday was clutch. I think he grew up a little bit in that game.

BleedPurple
11-14-2011, 12:10 AM
I don't even consider Ben to be an elite QB (yet), and his stats and winning percentage are far and away greater than Flacco's.

Let's examine that point.

JOE:
Percentage 60.7
TD–INT 70-41 (RATIO= 1.70:1)
Passer rating 86.4


BEN
Percentage 63.1 Marginally better
TD-INT 160-95 (RATIO= 1.68:1) Marginally worse
Passer rating 92.5 Marginally better

Joe is 38-18 since 2008 when he entered the league, ben is 75-32 (according to wikipedia). Advantage BB.

BUT, if you look at 2008-2011 Joe has more wins than any other QB in the league.

I agree that I don't think either is 'elite', or even 'great', but ben is not blowing anyone away with his numbers or his winning percentage. He is better in my opinion because of his other intangible attributes that Joe doesn't have, but to say he is statistically "far and away greater" is overdoing it.

MasterOfPuppets
11-14-2011, 12:23 PM
all i can say is , as a steeler fan, i hope bmore backs the money truck up to flacco's door.
he'll eat up a lot of cap space , and continue to bring a high level of inconsistency to the table. after seeing dalton just one game , i now fear the bengals in the future more than the flacco led ravens.

GMU Steeler
11-14-2011, 12:37 PM
I don't know why the Ravens don't use Rice more. He's by far their offense's best player. I don't know how to feel about Flacco objectively. He'll look solid one minute like the drive against us last week as much as it pains me to say it and then he'll look like crap the next week. It's a tough situation the Ravens FO has whether to resign him and or Rice. Running backs are more replaceable than QBs arguably but Rice is better at his position than Flacco is at his but at the same time the Ravens since their inception had struggled to find anything close to a franchise QB and Flacco may or may not be that guy.

Fire Arians
11-14-2011, 12:46 PM
all i can say is , as a steeler fan, i hope bmore backs the money truck up to flacco's door.
he'll eat up a lot of cap space , and continue to bring a high level of inconsistency to the table. after seeing dalton just one game , i know fear the bengals in the future more than the flacco led ravens.

i agree with that, I already think dalton is better than jacco

GMU Steeler
11-14-2011, 12:54 PM
i agree with that, I already think dalton is better than jacco

He seems more consistent than Flacco. It will be interesting though to see how Dalton is next year when the Bengals have at least on paper a tougher schedule.