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tunes4life
11-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Wow, just wow! Goodell is such a tool.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11313/1188612-100.stm

No fine to Ray Lewis so far that I can see for the blatant helmet to helmet on Hines.

OMG I'm so pissed off right now.

Fire Arians
11-09-2011, 12:40 PM
that's the biggest bullshit ever. if you look at the video it's obvious as day that ryan clark was attacking the football

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlYZR1N6ya4

i think this pisses me off more than the actual game. this was how football is supposed to be played! should we just drop the pads and play freakin flag football? what next? defensive players are gonna be fined for tackling someone too hard? oh wait, happened to james last year.

saveus1011
11-09-2011, 12:45 PM
This is why I'm starting to care about college football more than the NFL.

Shreveport Steeler
11-09-2011, 12:45 PM
**** Goodell. I seriously wouldn't mind if something bad happened to that ****sucker

tunes4life
11-09-2011, 12:46 PM
I take it back Lewis did get fined 'an undisclosed amount'. WTF bullsh*t is that?!? Tell us how much he was fined!

http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/09/ravens-lb-ray-lewis-fined-for-hit-on-steelers-hines-ward/

Fire Arians
11-09-2011, 12:49 PM
I take it back Lewis did get fined 'an undisclosed amount'. WTF bullsh*t is that?!? Tell us how much he was fined!

http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/09/ravens-lb-ray-lewis-fined-for-hit-on-steelers-hines-ward/

prolly some bullshit amount like $10-15k. his bias against the steelers if obvious. it's payback for embarassing his butt buddy belichick

StainlessStill
11-09-2011, 12:50 PM
My sig says it all. This league will be as relevant as Boxing once Goodell is all but done with it. What a dickhead. Goodell is officially ruining the game on all measures. Shame.

SteelCityMom
11-09-2011, 01:21 PM
I take it back Lewis did get fined 'an undisclosed amount'. WTF bullsh*t is that?!? Tell us how much he was fined!

http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/09/ravens-lb-ray-lewis-fined-for-hit-on-steelers-hines-ward/

This link says 20k now. Clarks is only higher because he's already been fined on the season.

The reason I think Goodell is a joke right now is because the fines, and even the penalties, are hardly a deterrent and in no way promote player safety (or at least the kind of player safety he keeps talking about). As much as I despise Gary Bettman (NHL commish), he's at least taking strides to actually make hockey safer, and if you are a repeat offender (even if it happened the season before...i.e. Kris Letang this year), it's an automatic suspension. You get any more black marks in the season, and the suspension just gets bigger (i.e. Matt Cooke missing the entire 1st round playoff series last season). That coupled with fines according to your pay makes players think twice and coaches take notice. This bullshit that Goodell hands out as deterrents is a joke at best. **** him.

Case and point is Lewis' remark about the fine (which is consistent with pretty much what every player says after they get a fine). The players pretty much think it's a joke as well.

"Yeah, I heard from the league and like I said they fined me whatever they was going to fine me,” Lewis told the Carroll County Times. “The thing is you definitely respect them trying to protect player safety. At the same time, it won’t change not one way I play this week no matter what the fine is. You can’t stop playing defense the way defense has always been created to play. When the receiver has the ball, your job is to disengage him from the ball. You never want to hurt nobody. I’ve been in this business too long. I just think once you start getting into these fines I don’t know how they come up with the numbers most of the time.”

Fire Arians
11-09-2011, 01:23 PM
tbh i don't even think ray lewis should get fined, neither should. it's football! It's not a pretty boy sport, it's a man's sport and should allow room for hard hitting. im a little old school and think defensive players need to earn their keep too

truesteelerfan
11-09-2011, 01:28 PM
This is a joke! The union needs to do something about King Goodell's one man goal of ending football as we know it, if they don't, I'm afraid we as fans need to protest somehow- but how I have no idea.

stb_steeler
11-09-2011, 01:31 PM
prolly some bullshit amount like $10-15k. his bias against the steelers if obvious. it's payback for embarassing his butt buddy belichick

Dont say that to loud, fans of other teams will think were just cry babies. Oh its obvious who's after who here in this league...
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww29/habesjn/goodelldouche.jpg
GOD I HATE THAT LOSER!

Opt2loc
11-09-2011, 01:37 PM
Fines are great for the charities they go to I guess. It's pocket change for most every player. It won't deter any player from the way they play. Some players do make dirty hits and should be fined heavy but also suspended a few games. Goodell saying it's for the saftey of the game, I agree that's a crock.

SteelCityMom
11-09-2011, 01:37 PM
tbh i don't even think ray lewis should get fined, neither should. it's football! It's not a pretty boy sport, it's a man's sport and should allow room for hard hitting. im a little old school and think defensive players need to earn their keep too

Yeah, I get that too...but I also don't want to see guys running around with mush for brains 10-20 years after they retire. So I get the player safety aspect of it...but I don't think Goodell really gives a shit. I think he just wants everyone to get the impression that he does give a shit.

There are so many steps Goodell could take to make the game safer and still have it be a hard hitting game...but he's more focused on offensive scoring and uses the shield of player safety to get that, all the while not really doing much at all to actually do anything that would promote player safety (i.e. making all players wear the latest protective helmets; bullshit fines that no player cares about). It's all a crock of shit.

truesteelerfan
11-09-2011, 01:37 PM
Here was Clark's response....Can't blame the guy...but now he'll probably be fined again...

“This time it’s wrong,” Clark said and then criticized commissioner Roger Goodell, “not that I respected Roger before this.”

Clark said if he’s going to get hit with such a big fine on what he and Tomlin and teammates believe was a clean hit, “I might as well put him to sleep for real” or take out the receiver’s knee.

jjpro11
11-09-2011, 01:40 PM
it's disgusting these assholes can't tell the difference between a player trying to force an incompletion at full speed, and a guy specifically head hunting. Goodell is trash.. as far as i am concerned, the NFL will never be the same again. pretty soon they'll be using instant replay for helmet-to-helmet hits.

truesteelerfan
11-09-2011, 01:52 PM
OK...Just did some math...Based on what I found to be Clark's 2.5M Salary this year...this 40K fine is the equlivent to a $480 fine for a normal person making $30K per year....

Thats not exactly a parking ticket....not going to make him unable to feed his kids or anything, but for something I consider just a good tackle (Tomlin used it as an example in film study as a textbook tackle) it is WAY too much. Screw you Goodell.

SteelCityMom
11-09-2011, 01:52 PM
In another reference to hockey...it shouldn't be Goodell who decides what's a fine/suspension and what's not. The best thing hockey ever did this year was make Brendan Shanahan (a long time player) Vice President of Hockey and Business Development and head disciplinarian. This way, it's not just some guy in a suit who's never played the game interpreting the rules and the hits and handing out fines.

Goodell really does have too much power over this game. And my bitterness towards it just grows every year. This isn't the game I grew up loving any more.

jjpro11
11-09-2011, 01:57 PM
In another reference to hockey...it shouldn't be Goodell who decides what's a fine/suspension and what's not. The best thing hockey ever did this year was make Brendan Shanahan (a long time player) Vice President of Hockey and Business Development and head disciplinarian. This way, it's not just some guy in a suit who's never played the game interpreting the rules and the hits and handing out fines.

Goodell really does have too much power over this game. And my bitterness towards it just grows every year. This isn't the game I grew up loving any more.

Goodell has his crony lawyer Ray Anderson in charge of that process. Who is possibly more qualified to **** people over for money than a lawyer?

truesteelerfan
11-09-2011, 02:00 PM
Goodell has his crony lawyer Ray Anderson in charge of that process. Who is possibly more qualified to **** people over for money than a lawyer?

I'm sure his lawyer will do exactly as his client "Goodell" tells him to do.
:banging:

stb_steeler
11-09-2011, 02:04 PM
In another reference to hockey...it shouldn't be Goodell who decides what's a fine/suspension and what's not. The best thing hockey ever did this year was make Brendan Shanahan (a long time player) Vice President of Hockey and Business Development and head disciplinarian. This way, it's not just some guy in a suit who's never played the game interpreting the rules and the hits and handing out fines.

Goodell really does have too much power over this game. And my bitterness towards it just grows every year. This isn't the game I grew up loving any more.

Kind of like some of our past Presidents :rofl:

Danny136200
11-09-2011, 02:05 PM
Here was Clark's response....Can't blame the guy...but now he'll probably be fined again...

“This time it’s wrong,” Clark said and then criticized commissioner Roger Goodell, “not that I respected Roger before this.”

Clark said if he’s going to get hit with such a big fine on what he and Tomlin and teammates believe was a clean hit, “I might as well put him to sleep for real” or take out the receiver’s knee.

IT was a clean hit, the receiver was not defenseless, otherwise he would lower his to, wait for it, defend if self. Clark even lead with his shoulders. These types of rules right now are pretty ambiguous IMO. How is Lewis's hit (which he lead with his helmet, and Ward was defending himself) not flagged, but then 13 minutes later, Clark gets flagged for leading with his shoulder and trying to dislodge the ball from the receiver. I have never gotten these rules and probably will never. How is every receiver defenseless now? How is that a receiver who just lower is head to, again wait for it, defend himself, defenseless?

Danny136200
11-09-2011, 02:06 PM
In another reference to hockey...it shouldn't be Goodell who decides what's a fine/suspension and what's not. The best thing hockey ever did this year was make Brendan Shanahan (a long time player) Vice President of Hockey and Business Development and head disciplinarian. This way, it's not just some guy in a suit who's never played the game interpreting the rules and the hits and handing out fines.

Goodell really does have too much power over this game. And my bitterness towards it just grows every year. This isn't the game I grew up loving any more.

the terrible thing about it, is that if a player decides to fight the fine, guess who they have to appeal to? Goodell.

FattyBeanDip
11-09-2011, 02:38 PM
**** Goodell. I seriously wouldn't mind if something bad happened to that ****sucker

Great sentiment there .. you sure are a Steelers fan. Dirtiest players ever to play the game crying foul when their caught dead to rights ... funny.

it's about time the league finally caught up with the dirty play that has been the bedrock of Steelers play for years. Now without it, you guys will surely fade away into obscurity. I mean, c'mon ... clearly the Steelers can't compete on an even playing field. I think the Ravens sweep of the series points this out rather well. With the dirty play being more and more neutralized with each passing day, the Steelers become more and more insignificant.

I really doubt the Steelers will see another SB appearance any time soon.

tunes4life
11-09-2011, 02:51 PM
Great sentiment there .. you sure are a Steelers fan. Dirtiest players ever to play the game crying foul when their caught dead to rights ... funny.

it's about time the league finally caught up with the dirty play that has been the bedrock of Steelers play for years. Now without it, you guys will surely fade away into obscurity. I mean, c'mon ... clearly the Steelers can't compete on an even playing field. I think the Ravens sweep of the series points this out rather well. With the dirty play being more and more neutralized with each passing day, the Steelers become more and more insignificant.

I really doubt the Steelers will see another SB appearance any time soon.

While I don't agree with the sentiment to have something happen to Goodell, I do agree that something needs to be done about Goodells absolute power. It really is getting out of control.

Saying the Steelers are a dirty team is just downright silly. Yes they hit hard, which used to be the way the NFL was supposed to be played. That's the point. You want to rattle your opponent. Did you not see the Lewis hit on Ward? Have you not seen the constant chop blocks on Hampton? I would say at this point the Steelers are one of cleanest teams in the league and are treated like one of the dirtiest teams in the league because of their obvious distaste for Roger Baddell.

Your entire post comes across as petty and unintelligent. Looking at your other posts, you joined the forum just to gloat and thats fine. I know Steeler fans do it enough on other forums. But we have a good reason to. We're good year after year. I can understand how that would bother the second best team in the division year after year. Why don't you return to your forums and help them to design their superbowl rings? :)

StainlessStill
11-09-2011, 03:07 PM
Big mouth, why are you here? You mean to tell me you can't resort back to your own boards now? Loud mouth f_cking troll that has won NOTHING. With all of what you just said, genius, the Steelers were the most fined team last season in ALL of football and STILL made it to the Super Bowl. Also, your little murdering mascot Ray Lewis was also fined you dipshit! That head to head shot was as dirty as your entire post according to your logic so GTFO with the rest of your purple fairy's.


I really doubt the Steelers will see another SB appearance any time soon.

You still DO realize, even in this week 9 win, that fortunes are you're STILL going to have to go through us for a Super Bowl? Translation: The Ravens aren't winning shit! We own you, always will and that won't change come January. Enjoy your regular season Super Bowl.

SteelCityMom
11-09-2011, 03:13 PM
Great sentiment there .. you sure are a Steelers fan. Dirtiest players ever to play the game crying foul when their caught dead to rights ... funny.

it's about time the league finally caught up with the dirty play that has been the bedrock of Steelers play for years. Now without it, you guys will surely fade away into obscurity. I mean, c'mon ... clearly the Steelers can't compete on an even playing field. I think the Ravens sweep of the series points this out rather well. With the dirty play being more and more neutralized with each passing day, the Steelers become more and more insignificant.

I really doubt the Steelers will see another SB appearance any time soon.

Learn how to read and keep up. While some may not agree with Clarks fine, the general sentiment is that Goodell is ruining the game, and not by fines against Steelers alone.

You do realize that Ray Ray got a fine too right? For a dirty play? You are the definition of hypocrisy.

jjpro11
11-09-2011, 04:08 PM
Learn how to read and keep up. While some may not agree with Clarks fine, the general sentiment is that Goodell is ruining the game, and not by fines against Steelers alone.

You do realize that Ray Ray got a fine too right? For a dirty play? You are the definition of hypocrisy.

a Ravens fan a hypocrite? damn.... i wonder where they get that from?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/08/john-harbaugh-supports-helmet-to-helmet-rules-except-when-theyre-applied-to-his-players/

TRH
11-09-2011, 04:23 PM
I take it back Lewis did get fined 'an undisclosed amount'. WTF bullsh*t is that?!? Tell us how much he was fined!

http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/09/ravens-lb-ray-lewis-fined-for-hit-on-steelers-hines-ward/



It was like $20.....

:mad:

steelerjim58
11-09-2011, 04:24 PM
What really makes me nuts, is that the rules committee is not taking into consideration the fact that the offensive players by instinct lower their heads before impact. If dickson does not lower his head there would be no helmet to helmet contact. They are laying all the blame on the defensive player.

StainlessStill
11-09-2011, 05:35 PM
a Ravens fan a hypocrite? damn.... i wonder where they get that from?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/08/john-harbaugh-supports-helmet-to-helmet-rules-except-when-theyre-applied-to-his-players/

Exactly. All these Ratf_ck fans established the term dirty not within their team, but their poor excuse of a fanbase as well, accusing us of such things after a loss in how we react when they wrote the book on it!

But, Coach, Jameel went helmet-to-helmet against a defenseless player.

“Jameel tried to go low,” Harbaugh said. “He did everything humanly possible to hit the tight end low. You fine a guy $40,000 for trying to apply the rule. He tried to do something that’s against the rule of physics. I say you’re taking someone’s money unfairly.

Lmao, what does THAT sound like? Baltimore, their fans and their coach are pukes.

SoCalFan
11-09-2011, 06:35 PM
BS on the fine! Clark will appeal and Tomlin already backed him on this as being WRONG! He clearly lead with his SHOULDER,made contact with the BALL first with his head,and yes made contact with the defenders facemask! I guarantee the players association will have this reduced!!!

tony hipchest
11-09-2011, 07:53 PM
Tomlin calls Clark's $40,000 fine "excessive"


By Mike Bires mbires@timesonline.com Timesonline.com

PITTSBURGH -- Rarely does coach Mike Tomlin comment on fines levied against Steelers players for hits the NFL deems flagrant. But he did today in defending free safety Ryan Clark.

Tomlin, who seldom speaks to the media on Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays, issued a statement after Clark was fined $40,000.

"I think the fine that Ryan Clark received was excessive," Tomlin said. "I am a proponent of player safety and the league's pursuit of improvement in this area. I, like the vast majority of people in this industry, witness daily the steep price that these young men pay to play this game on so many levels.


"Ryan has my full support if he choses to appeal this in any way."

jjpro11
11-09-2011, 08:26 PM
the main problem is the NFL wants to allow these receivers to catch the ball, come down, then have the defender tackle him.. the NFL is trying to get rid of these bang-bang hits where the catch and hit happen almost simultaneously (the most exciting hits in football). that's where all this defenseless receiver bullshit comes into play.. i am sure in the near future it will be illegal for defenders to hit a receiver unless they've taken two steps with possession of the ball. just an excuse for them to increase passing stats. dislodging the ball and forcing an incompletion would hurt offenses, and the NFL certainly doesn't want that.. the more offense, the better. **** Goodell and all the horseshit that comes out of his mouth.

GMU Steeler
11-09-2011, 09:02 PM
Tomlin calls Clark's $40,000 fine "excessive"


By Mike Bires mbires@timesonline.com Timesonline.com

PITTSBURGH -- Rarely does coach Mike Tomlin comment on fines levied against Steelers players for hits the NFL deems flagrant. But he did today in defending free safety Ryan Clark.

Tomlin, who seldom speaks to the media on Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays, issued a statement after Clark was fined $40,000.

"I think the fine that Ryan Clark received was excessive," Tomlin said. "I am a proponent of player safety and the league's pursuit of improvement in this area. I, like the vast majority of people in this industry, witness daily the steep price that these young men pay to play this game on so many levels.


"Ryan has my full support if he choses to appeal this in any way."


You know it's getting bad when Tomlin is speaking up. Mike's usually not one to stir up things but he's absolutely right here.

tony hipchest
11-09-2011, 09:13 PM
You know it's getting bad when Tomlin is speaking up. Mike's usually not one to stir up things but he's absolutely right here.this was exactly my first thought.

he is usually so even keeled. i bet in private the rooneys are fuming. :mad:

casteeler
11-09-2011, 10:22 PM
Unfortunately, living on the west coast I have to watch the Raiders. The Raiders play dirty... Very dirty, lots of personal fouls. Why doesn't Goodell go after them? In fact Oakland is and has been for years the most penalized team in the NFL. I've seen the ugliest behavior from Raider players(and Fans) but where are the fines. Truth is Goodell and his goons watch Steeler games with pen in hand wait for any physical play they deem worthy of fines. Hey Goodell stay the f*%k away from the NHL!!

wera176
11-10-2011, 11:53 AM
Part of me kinda hoped Ray-Ray wouldn't get fined.

Think about how p*ssed our boys would be then!

Yehoodi
11-10-2011, 12:26 PM
sorry gang but can not agree with you and Clark . . . the sooner the players, fans, (and now the coaches), get it in thier heads that the NFL does not want helmit to helmit contact, the sooner we can move on with a much better and safer sport . . . not sure where the disconnect is here . . . :noidea:

surely helmit the helmit contact is unavoidable at times, see Ray Lewis hit Ward, ones helmit is attached to ones head which attached to ones shoulders and arms, and so when you make a tackle WITH YOUR ARMS, naturally ones helmit is not far behind and at times, like Ray Lewis, when one makes a tackle you may lower your head a tad as you entered the tackle, it is simply human nature, and if there is incidental contact with the helmits, so be it, and it is going to go uncalled . ..

HOWEVER, a BIG DIFFERENCE is when one launches oneself at the opponent leading with the helmit, and becomes a human missile WITHOUT USING ONES ARMS, and even tho may try to move his head to the side, stills makes contact helmit to helmit, it is going to, and should most definitaly, be called, plan and simple, period, no room for dicussion, if you don't like it leave your paycheck at the door and get a job somewhere making 50K a year, otherwise if you want to make 3-5 million a year, learn and live with the rules or go home . . . PERIOD . . .

i have said this on many a board and still amazing how many people get upset at fines . . . surely there are fines that might be uncalled for . .. but when it comes to safety I am 125% behind them . . . Merriweather for my pats did similar hits, he launch at the TE for Balt and grazed his helmit, no damage, but it doesn't take away from the crime . . .

i understand that some like the rough and tumble of football, and true ESPN and the media are kind of at fault (and even NFL films) that glorify these bigs hits and thus kind of make them seem right, but we need to sit back and realize what is safe for teh players . ..

it is not TOO much to ask a safety to wrap up a player with his arms, as opposed to launching himself head and shoulders first whilst his arms are buy his side . . .

i always look to the sport of rugby for reference, just as rough and "manly" a sport but without pads, there are some rules in rugby would love to see in football, one is only the captain can speak with the ref and must do so without foul language, two is you must go down with you opponent when you make a tackle (i.e. you can not lunge at him), and third and perhaps most critically, you CAN NOT hit or tackle above the shoulders . . . and if you do it could it is a penalty and at times can put you in the sin bin . . .

so for me and all of this "gee commish it is good ole football" i point to rugby, and if those guys can handle how tackle without complaints, then there is no reason for fans, players and coaches not to complain about rules on how to tackle and not tackle . ..

okay maybe i vented too much :mad: , but if another analogous sport like rugby can implement rules for players safety, so can't the NLF, and yes the tackles were tackles 25 years ago, but the players are faster, bigger and stronger and as such these kind of contacts are more forceful then they were 25 years . . .

and lastly, we should not go against rules for safety even tho they might be against present day convention . . .but if we did goes against the rules, we would still have the spear, closeline, facemask, chop block, hit below knees, etc . .. all of which were unpopular in thier day, but today are likely accepted by most as good safety rules, and as such one should not go against the helmit contact rules . . .

Actually I am still mad at Clark for his hit on Welker a few years back but that did not cloud my view on the matter . . . :popcorn:

Fire Arians
11-10-2011, 12:47 PM
of course you're one of those fag NE fans that like playing pattycake, of course you'd be against how football is supposed to be played

PatsFan09
11-10-2011, 12:52 PM
The Steelers are Goodel's personal whipping boys. It's sad what he's done to the game and worse that he continually slams your team for playing good tough football. Your team gets the biggest fines by far...and fairly often too. It's ridiculous.

SteelCityMom
11-10-2011, 01:14 PM
of course you're one of those fag NE fans that like playing pattycake, of course you'd be against how football is supposed to be played

I don't think it's like that at all. He seems like a good guy. I actually agree with some of his points...I just think Goodell goes about player safety the completely wrong way. I think it's more about bringing more offense and viewers into the game than it is about player safety to him.

This is why I've brought up the NHL and how they're handling player safety right now. They're having a former player decide discipline more based on intent and sloppiness of play as opposed to a broad sweeping rule that does not allow for any kind of flexibility. Both games are fast and rely a lot on hard hits, but Goodell is putting all of the onus on the defensive players rather than having situations where the onus is on the offensive player as well.

I still maintain the position that he (Goodell) is using the guise of player safety as a way to gain more viewers because of higher offensive production. The majority of players in the NFL don't want to go out and injure anyone, but there have to be certain rules in place to protect the players. The NFL just has a completely shit commish. That's what it boils down to for me.

If Goodell doesn't want any more helmet to helmet contact at all...just put them all in leather helmets again. Watch and see how quick these kinds of hits stop lol. That was just a joke by the way...I know that's not the route it will ever go.

SoCalFan
11-10-2011, 01:17 PM
sorry gang but can not agree with you and Clark . . . the sooner the players, fans, (and now the coaches), get it in thier heads that the NFL does not want helmit to helmit contact, the sooner we can move on with a much better and safer sport . . . not sure where the disconnect is here . . . :noidea:

surely helmit the helmit contact is unavoidable at times, see Ray Lewis hit Ward, ones helmit is attached to ones head which attached to ones shoulders and arms, and so when you make a tackle WITH YOUR ARMS, naturally ones helmit is not far behind and at times, like Ray Lewis, when one makes a tackle you may lower your head a tad as you entered the tackle, it is simply human nature, and if there is incidental contact with the helmits, so be it, and it is going to go uncalled . ..

HOWEVER, a BIG DIFFERENCE is when one launches oneself at the opponent leading with the helmit, and becomes a human missile WITHOUT USING ONES ARMS, and even tho may try to move his head to the side, stills makes contact helmit to helmit, it is going to, and should most definitaly, be called, plan and simple, period, no room for dicussion, if you don't like it leave your paycheck at the door and get a job somewhere making 50K a year, otherwise if you want to make 3-5 million a year, learn and live with the rules or go home . . . PERIOD . . .

i have said this on many a board and still amazing how many people get upset at fines . . . surely there are fines that might be uncalled for . .. but when it comes to safety I am 125% behind them . . . Merriweather for my pats did similar hits, he launch at the TE for Balt and grazed his helmit, no damage, but it doesn't take away from the crime . . .

i understand that some like the rough and tumble of football, and true ESPN and the media are kind of at fault (and even NFL films) that glorify these bigs hits and thus kind of make them seem right, but we need to sit back and realize what is safe for teh players . ..

it is not TOO much to ask a safety to wrap up a player with his arms, as opposed to launching himself head and shoulders first whilst his arms are buy his side . . .

i always look to the sport of rugby for reference, just as rough and "manly" a sport but without pads, there are some rules in rugby would love to see in football, one is only the captain can speak with the ref and must do so without foul language, two is you must go down with you opponent when you make a tackle (i.e. you can not lunge at him), and third and perhaps most critically, you CAN NOT hit or tackle above the shoulders . . . and if you do it could it is a penalty and at times can put you in the sin bin . . .

so for me and all of this "gee commish it is good ole football" i point to rugby, and if those guys can handle how tackle without complaints, then there is no reason for fans, players and coaches not to complain about rules on how to tackle and not tackle . ..

okay maybe i vented too much :mad: , but if another analogous sport like rugby can implement rules for players safety, so can't the NLF, and yes the tackles were tackles 25 years ago, but the players are faster, bigger and stronger and as such these kind of contacts are more forceful then they were 25 years . . .

and lastly, we should not go against rules for safety even tho they might be against present day convention . . .but if we did goes against the rules, we would still have the spear, closeline, facemask, chop block, hit below knees, etc . .. all of which were unpopular in thier day, but today are likely accepted by most as good safety rules, and as such one should not go against the helmit contact rules . . .

Actually I am still mad at Clark for his hit on Welker a few years back but that did not cloud my view on the matter . . . :popcorn:

I stopped reading after the first line!Are you f**king kidding me?Clark did EXACTLY as tought (I played DB as well) lead with your shoulder,put your head on the ball to create separation!!! Go watch pee wee flag football....:drink:

SteelCityMom
11-10-2011, 01:23 PM
Come on guys...I know he's a Pats fan, and is supposed to be our mortal enemy and all...but if you disagree just say why. No need to bring up personal insults. He never has, he's just stating his opinion on the matter.

Disagree with civility please! (unless they're obvious trolls...then have at it :chuckle: )

SteelCityMom
11-10-2011, 01:35 PM
By the way, I'd like to state that I have not been totally exempt from what I've just stated. I know I've thrown some personal attacks out at a few posters this week because I've let my personal emotions and the overwhelming flood of Ravens fans get to me.

I'd just like to see us all be a little bit more civil towards each other and towards good posters of fans of other teams. This season has had a lot of ups and downs and with that it's seen a lot of internal strife within this board. I think we can all do better and act better. Remember, you are representing one of the most successful and historic franchises in all of sports. And this place would be quite boring were it not for a difference of opinion. Thank you for your help here!

Nevermore
11-10-2011, 05:06 PM
I agree that this is a difficult transition for the NFL and the players to determine what is "right and wrong" at this point. But the consistent excuse of "this is how I learned.... " doesn't really hold water. As more and more cases of former NFL players having dementia and serious brain injuries comes out, something obviously needs to be done to improve safety. Maybe it is equipment. Maybe it is rules. Maybe it is something we haven't even though of yet, but something does need to be done.

The rules have changed and the players have to adjust. And if they don't, they need to expect to be fined. Its that simple. If the state comes out tomorrow and lowers the speed limit on the road in front of your house to make it safer and then you continue to go the old speed limit because "that's the way it always was" you should expect to get a ticket. They are professionals. They should act like it.

It is frustrating right now because it is a bit of a judgement call and players, fans, the league, and everyone else is having trouble trying to figure it out.

SteelCityMom
11-10-2011, 05:19 PM
I agree that this is a difficult transition for the NFL and the players to determine what is "right and wrong" at this point. But the consistent excuse of "this is how I learned.... " doesn't really hold water. As more and more cases of former NFL players having dementia and serious brain injuries comes out, something obviously needs to be done to improve safety. Maybe it is equipment. Maybe it is rules. Maybe it is something we haven't even though of yet, but something does need to be done.

The rules have changed and the players have to adjust. And if they don't, they need to expect to be fined. Its that simple. If the state comes out tomorrow and lowers the speed limit on the road in front of your house to make it safer and then you continue to go the old speed limit because "that's the way it always was" you should expect to get a ticket. They are professionals. They should act like it.

It is frustrating right now because it is a bit of a judgement call and players, fans, the league, and everyone else is having trouble trying to figure it out.

Those are very good points that I agree with all around. My issue lies with Goodell and how he is handling the player safety issue. To me, it seems he's not really as invested in it as he makes it out to be. These fines are NOTHING to the players. You don't need to look any further than Suhs', Lewis' and Clarks' statements these weeks. These guys don't take what Goodell has to say seriously, and I really feel that Goodell doesn't give a shit beyond the calls on the field. How many times does it take for a player to be penalized and fined to get a suspension? The suspensions and loss of game pay are what are really going to hurt a player (i.e. the examples I've given on hockey). These fines mean shit to the players and Goodell knows it. He's just using this as a front to gain more offensive play.

steelerschik
11-10-2011, 05:22 PM
Come on guys...I know he's a Pats fan, and is supposed to be our mortal enemy and all...but if you disagree just say why. No need to bring up personal insults. He never has, he's just stating his opinion on the matter.

Disagree with civility please! (unless they're obvious trolls...then have at it :chuckle: )

LOL, I've known yehoodi for a while. He's actually very cool and quite a nice guy. Usually very objective.

So hey yehoodi, WELCOME DUDE! :wave: I don't go on colts.com anymore, all the good people are somewhere else. Glad to see you finally made a steelers board! Now don't go pissing me off about the whole ryan clark thing. Goodell is killing this game and you know it. The only ones who don't think it are usually the fans of teams with a weak D and O oriented, hence you guys and the Colts,etc. Us fans growing up with football being about hard hitting Ds are sickened and disgusted by this. Ryan Clark's hit was not illegal. Ray Lewis led with his head, a league no-no. He should have been penalized and fined more than $20,000, he freakin took a player out of the game, but again he is a POS like the rest of his thug team, so it is what it is. I hope to see you around...I'll be looking for you!!!! :thumbsup::tt:

Nevermore
11-10-2011, 05:33 PM
Those are very good points that I agree with all around. My issue lies with Goodell and how he is handling the player safety issue. To me, it seems he's not really as invested in it as he makes it out to be. These fines are NOTHING to the players. You don't need to look any further than Suhs', Lewis' and Clarks' statements these weeks. These guys don't take what Goodell has to say seriously, and I really feel that Goodell doesn't give a shit beyond the calls on the field. How many times does it take for a player to be penalized and fined to get a suspension? The suspensions and loss of game pay are what are really going to hurt a player (i.e. the examples I've given on hockey). These fines mean shit to the players and Goodell knows it. He's just using this as a front to gain more offensive play.

Oh I totally agree the NFL is not committed to player safety. They give it some window dressing and talk about it, but like you said are not really addressing the issue. Why are the fines different amounts? The 15 yard penalty isn't different depending on how bad the hit was. It is or it isn't. Period.

Touting fines and pushing for 18 games in the same breath is laughable. Like you said, if we are really trying to protect players, put the fine at $50,000 across the board. If you get a flag in the first quarter for helmet to helmet and you realize you just lost 50k, I'm thinking maybe you think twice the next time you go to tackle a guy. 3 helmet to helmet PENALTIES (not decided on Wednesday in slow mo) gets you a 1 game suspension. That would get through to players (and coaches) real quick.

SteelCityMom
11-10-2011, 05:40 PM
Oh I totally agree the NFL is not committed to player safety. They give it some window dressing and talk about it, but like you said are not really addressing the issue. Why are the fines different amounts? The 15 yard penalty isn't different depending on how bad the hit was. It is or it isn't. Period.

Touting fines and pushing for 18 games in the same breath is laughable. Like you said, if we are really trying to protect players, put the fine at $50,000 across the board. If you get a flag in the first quarter for helmet to helmet and you realize you just lost 50k, I'm thinking maybe you think twice the next time you go to tackle a guy. 3 helmet to helmet PENALTIES (not decided on Wednesday in slow mo) gets you a 1 game suspension. That would get through to players (and coaches) real quick.

Yeah, agreed...and I'd even go farther than that. Suspensions hurt more than the fines...and as I mentioned with the NHL policy, you don't even need to be a repeat offender in the same season to get a suspension, just within the same year. 50K isn't even anything to even the lowest of the low on the NFL totem. I'm willing to give first, and even second time offenders a fine...but after that it's suspension time along with game checks. No questions asked. I also think an actual former player should be deciding these fates as well. Not some lawyer.

Like I said (and it seems that you agree), there are lots of steps Goodell could take to make this game safer. He's just more worried about image than actual safety.

SteelCityMom
11-10-2011, 05:46 PM
Sorry, I had a couple of glasses of wine with dinner (ok...4 :chuckle: )...and after reading what you posted, I think I pretty much parroted you. We agree on the basics though I think.

I don't think there are many players out there who wants to hurt another player, but there are no different consequences between the ones who do, and the ones who don't IMO. That's where my gripe lies right now.

Yehoodi
11-10-2011, 07:07 PM
I stopped reading after the first line!Are you f**king kidding me?Clark did EXACTLY as tought (I played DB as well) lead with your shoulder,put your head on the ball to create separation!!! Go watch pee wee flag football....:drink:

SoCalFan, all that the NFL is trying to do is bring safety to the sport,

do I have to remind people that a player had seizure recently, or the a guy like Teddy Johnson for the pats is suffering from severe depression, a result of his concusions . . do i? really ?

its is not that complicated "do not make helmit to helmit" contact, can someone explain to me why is this so complicated? Please can some explain why this concept is difficult to grasp????

"how i was trained" "textbook tackle" fiddlesticks . . . in the sport of rugby you can not tackle above the shoulder or make contact to the head . . .gees, let me think if the sport of rugby does not have a "textbook tackle" which includes contact to the head, why can't the NFL do the same? please advise . . . btw, the sport of rugby is not pee pee football :wink02:

hey ever team has guys that launch, the pats had merriweather . . . ;pitt had clark so it isnt the the steelers i am ragging on, its the entire NFL . . .

i really simply can not understand the concept that a organize body wants to bring safety to a enterprise and employees are angry at the body for trying to bring safety to their job . . . .i simply can't conprehend this . . .

yes i truly understand clark was trying to do his best to turn away as he approached the player, but when you launch yourself head first like a missile and try to the turn the missile at the last minute, there is a chance the missile will hit its target, and if you launch head first at a player, and do your best to try to avoid said contact but you unintentionally make helmit to helmit contact, you are at fault, the crime was committed as he launched and approach the player . . . one is responsible for ones position on the field and if play with fire (and go headfirst towards a opponent whetehr or not you are trying to make a an intentional head to head hit) sometimes you get burnt, and if one goes head first trying to make an otherwise "text book" play and there unitentional contact, one had to live with the consequences . . .

btw, one can dislodge a ball with a fist . . . the fact that it was a text book tackle in 1988 does not make it right, if said hits are legislative out of rugby, why cant the NFL do the same? if one can not make a legal tackle . . . well then perhaps one should not make the tackle . . . :wink02:

Steel Peon
11-10-2011, 11:41 PM
HOWEVER, a BIG DIFFERENCE is when one launches oneself at the opponent leading with the helmit, and becomes a human missile WITHOUT USING ONES ARMS, and even tho may try to move his head to the side, stills makes contact helmit to helmit, it is going to, and should most definitaly, be called, plan and simple, period, no room for dicussion, if you don't like it leave your paycheck at the door and get a job somewhere making 50K a year, otherwise if you want to make 3-5 million a year, learn and live with the rules or go home . . . PERIOD
I guess it's wrong to try and halt someone as effectively as possible in football now, eh? Fighting to stop a player from gaining that crucial extra yard is no longer an option........no more leaning forward in order to lower your center of gravity. This is no longer a man's sport, and warriors need not apply. When you lean forward while running at high speeds, your head might bump into the other player's head, and we can't have any more of that now. Hell, you might as well make a rule that states "No defender may run directly towards the ball carrier, and may only approach from behind or the side." Is this what football is really turning into? Are we truly encouraging our defenders to give up yardage and not to make big plays? Is this really what everyone wants?

So, no more collisions in football, huh?........Whatever makes everyone happy, I guess. All those old clips of Butkus, lambert, Singletary, Greene, lloyd, and LT can just be tossed in the incinerator now......we got no use for players like that anymore. Oh sure, we'll still show all those awesome clips from when football used to be great to sell everything we can, but don't expect to see anything like that happen during any games anymore. And while you're at it, you might as well shitcan all those old Offensive records, 'cause they're going to be obsolete from this point out. Say hello to the era of the National Flag Football League folks........it's finally here.

steelerschik
11-11-2011, 10:57 AM
well then perhaps one should not make the tackle . . . :wink02:[/QUOTE]


Hood, you know I luv ya, but now come on. Not make a tackle? I truly hope you're joking. So a defender should say to himself "Gee, I can't make this tackle without a helmet-to-helmet hit so I should just let him run by me and get in the endzone"???? Really? Come on now, you know these guys are out there not intentionally wanting to hurt anyone (unless your name is Ray Lewis or Terrell Suggs or _____insert any raven's name). You have a defender and you have the offensive player who ducks his head leading to a helmet to helmet hit. Who is at fault? No, not the defender and if the defender is lowering his body to get the ball out and again the offensive player ducks, how is this to be avoided? By your logic don't make the tackle. Might as well play chess cause that makes no sense. This is football, these hits happen. The players know what risks there are, they're willing to take them. Serious injuries can occur anywhere/any time and I'm not being insensitive here because I don't want to see anyone seriously injured, but it happens unintentionally. Don't want to risk it, then don't play football is the correct answer, not "just don't make the tackle".