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madtowndrunkard
11-20-2011, 11:34 PM
Anyone think this is some of the worst quality football the NFL has produced in a very long time?

I'm just talking the league as a whole. If anyone watched highlights of the Denver win today I think you know what I'm talking about.

Consider the fact that the Colts can lose their QB and turn into the worst team in the league. 60+ points in a game is normal now.

Very few teams are playing defense at a respectable level. The best team in the league (Greenbay) has a pitiful defense.... There are a few teams that look solid defensively....no one is looking dominant.

I think the rules have a lot to do with this. The commissioner has turned this into the Arena league... Canadian football anyone? You can't say this is college ball...colleges run the ball. In the NFL running the ball is nothing more then a change up.

It's getting hard to watch.... in fact I didn't watch 5 minutes of football today and it didn't bother me one bit. I enjoyed my day..... I'm looking forward to the Steelers game next week... I probably would have watched some of the Cinci / Ravens game if it were televised...only because it effected the steelers. I wonder if I'm the only guy who feels this way? How are the NFL's ratings these days? Anyone know?

Maybe I'm too "old school" ? I'm 38 and I've been a fanatic for many years. I never miss a steeler game. In past years I was over the top fantasy player as well...I quit doing that about 3 years ago and I have to say the extra time I have is good. I don't miss it. In my mind the NFL "peaked" right around 2005. There were 2 amazing SB's in 2008 and 2009, but I'd say the quality of the game as a whole has been declining since about 2005/2006 and I think this year it's been just awful. I want the running game back...I want defense... I want a great offense to earn their greatness....I want kick offs back.....I want my NFL back.

SteelCityMom
11-20-2011, 11:45 PM
No, you are not the only one who feels this way. I remember wanting to watch all the games on Sundays. That was my day. Now, beyond the Steelers, I don't care to watch anything else... beyond keeping an eye on the NFL ticker at times. I'll watch an occasional game here and there, but not very much else.

My sports fandom started out with hockey, and that is where it is definitely starting to lean more towards now again. Goodell has just ruined this sport. That about sums it up for me.

madtowndrunkard
11-20-2011, 11:56 PM
No, you are not the only one who feels this way. I remember wanting to watch all the games on Sundays. That was my day. Now, beyond the Steelers, I don't care to watch anything else... beyond keeping an eye on the NFL ticker at times. I'll watch an occasional game here and there, but not very much else.

My sports fandom started out with hockey, and that is where it is definitely starting to lean more towards now again. Goodell has just ruined this sport. That about sums it up for me.


I've been really into baseball the past few years.... I've always been a Brewers fan... Miller Park is an hour away from my house...the past 5 or so years I've been a partial season ticket holder....and with the Brewers actually winning I've really been a fanatic... I think I went to 20-30 games last year (playoffs included) and I never missed a game on the radio or tv. Oddly enough I'd say MLB has been going back to its roots and getting better and better...while the NFL has been going away from what made it great. Maybe you Pirate fans disagree, but I thought the 2011 season was just amazing for MLB. Overall some of the best baseball in years. Sounds like the new CBA in MLB is only going to make things even better.

Besides the NFL outlawing defense...the horrible officiating and pathetic commentators have also hurt the game.

Sixburgher
11-21-2011, 12:04 AM
Besides the NFL outlawing defense...the horrible officiating and pathetic commentators have also hurt the game.

No argument here. "Goodell Ball" sucks.

Danny136200
11-21-2011, 12:31 AM
Anyone think this is some of the worst quality football the NFL has produced in a very long time?

I'm just talking the league as a whole. If anyone watched highlights of the Denver win today I think you know what I'm talking about.

Consider the fact that the Colts can lose their QB and turn into the worst team in the league. 60+ points in a game is normal now.

Very few teams are playing defense at a respectable level. The best team in the league (Greenbay) has a pitiful defense.... There are a few teams that look solid defensively....no one is looking dominant.

I think the rules have a lot to do with this. The commissioner has turned this into the Arena league... Canadian football anyone? You can't say this is college ball...colleges run the ball. In the NFL running the ball is nothing more then a change up.

It's getting hard to watch.... in fact I didn't watch 5 minutes of football today and it didn't bother me one bit. I enjoyed my day..... I'm looking forward to the Steelers game next week... I probably would have watched some of the Cinci / Ravens game if it were televised...only because it effected the steelers. I wonder if I'm the only guy who feels this way? How are the NFL's ratings these days? Anyone know?

Maybe I'm too "old school" ? I'm 38 and I've been a fanatic for many years. I never miss a steeler game. In past years I was over the top fantasy player as well...I quit doing that about 3 years ago and I have to say the extra time I have is good. I don't miss it. In my mind the NFL "peaked" right around 2005. There were 2 amazing SB's in 2008 and 2009, but I'd say the quality of the game as a whole has been declining since about 2005/2006 and I think this year it's been just awful. I want the running game back...I want defense... I want a great offense to earn their greatness....I want kick offs back.....I want my NFL back.

There are some things that hurt the NFL this year. One of the main things is the fact that the NFL has a lockout; this is a year-round sport where players must be in top shape year-round both physically and mentally. I see Cornerbacks missing assignments and wide receivers running wrong routes, missing blocking assignments, ETC. This all has to do with the fact that the NFL did not have an off season. the change of the only one-padded practice per week also does not help much.

But other than that, I do think that we are in a golden age of QBs and offensive execution. The offense is just ahead this year in terms of schemes and such. You see the Packers and they still are undefeated without a defense to speak of because their offense is just spectacular. you see that the Patriots are still one of the top offenses this year, even though it has hit a couple of speed bumps this past month (our Steel D has something to do with it :tt03: ). Hell, you see what this offense in Pittsburgh is doing, changing the game and making plays on offense and trying to rely on offense to win the game (have any of you old school steeler fans ever heard of relying on the offense more than the defense? it has to be a while since that has happened).

The best example that I have is what the 49ers are doing. They have a QB that is severely limited in my opinion, but Jim Harbaugh is keeping this team competitive by just simply out coaching the opponents and relying on the running game and play-action passing to win games, which is unprecedented in this new era. I do think that the 49ers are a real threat to the packers because of the way they run their offense, IMO.

You also see rookies QBs making a plethora of plays and such. Cam Newton is head and shoulders above expectations and keeping is very, very, very crappy team competitive. Andy Dalton has been magnificent this year; and he should have completed the comeback earlier today.

I do not think that defenses are playing like crap; most of the rules goes against them (we know this all too well). I also think that the defense must catch up and adjust and adapt to these new offensive passing schemes (even Lebeau has adjusted to more press this year). I do think it will be a couple of years till you see a defense that can completely shutdown a good offense this year week in and week out. The Ravens are the closest, IMO. But they cannot do it every week. The Steelers have been CBs for the future so hopefully we can stop a spread offense more effectively.

tanda10506
11-21-2011, 12:55 AM
It's this sissy ass "in the name of player safety" garbage. CB's no longer can make a hit to jar the ball, ensuring that every pass that is thrown decent is a completion. Leading with the helmet used to only be called if it looked like the tackler wanted to injure the ball carrier. It's goodell's BS transformation. I haven't seen one big hit go unpunished, the dictator has to go before the league turns to complete sh#t.

Steel_Bus_24
11-21-2011, 03:11 AM
I about threw up today when the Packers were given like 50 million PI calls when they needed it the most

Goodell catering to the Hardcore Fantasy League losers is why this game is turning into sh**

Every Pass Now you have the Soccer Effect of Players whining their ass off for a flag and the refs usually obliging

Rick5895
11-21-2011, 04:20 AM
One of my biggest complaints is the officiating. It has been awful, and not just with these lame personal foul penalties for big hits. Game to game its inconsistent and for crying out loud the interference penalties being called (or not called) are ridiculous. Lack of consistency in the same game is atrocious same with the holding calls or lack thereof.

mesaSteeler
11-21-2011, 05:56 AM
I could not agree more. The games are not being decided by the whims of the officials. It's turned into professional basketball, all offense and no defense. I am just not as interested in the game as I used to be. It's gotten to the point that I am not not even watching non Steeler games anymore.

Whodis
11-21-2011, 05:58 AM
I agree...... However, any talk radio will tell you "Ratings are up"

#1LambertFan
11-21-2011, 06:20 AM
Things will go back to normal eventually... As soon as society grows a pair and learn whats good for them. Seeing kids these days makes it seem like that's hardly a possibility

steelfury02
11-21-2011, 08:31 AM
Of course the ratings are up - its only because of the 24 hr media machine and basically reaching out to every single casual to semi-casual fan who aren't diehards and will go to the same store and buy an Aaron Rodgers jersey and a Cam Newton jersey at the same time because they think they are "cool." or, my favorite example:

"Did you watch the Patriots play? Yea - I think they are from Boston. You know - that model's husband who is the quarterback - he is soooooooooo cute. OMG they scored like a billion points . . ." (Insert cash register machine here)

madtowndrunkard
11-21-2011, 08:33 AM
"the golden age of offense and QB's?" That's ridiculous. The offensive outbursts we are seeing is due to rule changes and the fines that Goodall is handing out. The NFL has outlawed defense as we know it. If a corner can no longer touch a WR, a safety cannot hit the WR to knock out the ball, and the QB can't be hit once that ball is thrown....and when you can hit him, you better do it softly (unless your name is Ben) is the reason the game is becoming one dimensional.

This is not a good thing for the sport for it to be one dimensional. More scoring does not make the product better. If that were the case we'd all be watching Arena league or Canadian football.

Yea I love Ben as much as the next guy...he's a great QB on his way to a HOF career. But he's no Dan Marino. Ben does not put up these numbers 10 years ago.

As far as all the rookies that are having success.... I'd say that's just another argument of how poor the quality of the NFL has become. It's now not really a big deal when rookie QB's and WR's put up huge numbers. It used to take QB's and WR's a while to grasp the NFL for a reason....it was always MUCH more difficult then the college game. Now, not so much.

There were some big time passers in the 80's and 90's. So that's nothing new. What is new is the disappearance of the defense. Gone are the big hits. Gone is the variety of style that every team gave you on game day, The kick off return has turned into a joke.

madtowndrunkard
11-21-2011, 08:39 AM
Something else that no one's brought up... the constant stopping of action for commercials. The NFL loves the instant replay because it gives them more time to play commercials. It wouldn't be so bad if the instant replay was actually called correctly... just about every week you see an official botch a replay call. How does that happen? If it's not the officials incompetence (or corruption) then it's the NFL that has flawed rules. Either way it's a problem. We all know what a friggen catch is. Then the inconsistent enforcement of the rules....it is so out of control...that alone has a large % of fans thinking the game is rigged. 20 years ago, putting a LB in a head lock was a flag. Think that changes things at all?

Ask anyone who doesn't like watching the NFL.... what don't they like about it? The answer will mostly be " too many pauses between the action" That's part of the game that has never really bothered me until recently. I feel like the replays and commercial TO's have become excessive. Granted I see that as the least of the NFL's problems, but it's part of a bigger picture that IMO the leadership of the NFL is making poor decisions. It happens in business all the time... just ask NetFlix customers.

Are ratings up? I've heard some talking heads say that it's up and up and up....but they make a living off the sport... so I'm curious to know what the actual numbers are. Maybe it is up.... maybe I'm a very small % of fan with these opinions. But I do know me and many of my friends used to watch football all day Sunday...and never missed a monday night. I watch steeler games and that is it. I've tried to watch other games and it's become bland to me.

Whodis
11-21-2011, 09:12 AM
Monday, November 21, 2011
The Associated Press
Oakland Raiders coach Hue Jackson said he has held his tongue long enough when it comes to NFL officiating.

Jackson ripped the officiating crew after the Raiders beat the Minnesota Vikings, 27-21, to improve to 6-4 on the season, saying he doesn't "even know what football is right now."

"I am going to reach out to the league myself, personally," Jackson said. "I normally don't complain about the officiating. But today I just truly felt like it was a little unfair. I really do."

The Raiders were penalized 12 times for 117 yards. Four of those penalties were personal fouls for hits deemed illegal by referee Jerome Boger 's crew.

"I know everyone says we're the most-penalized team in football and that's a fact, and I'm not running from that," Jackson said.

"But there's no way, some things that happened today on that football field, I question. I just do, and I have to, and I'm going to defend my team. It's time that I do that."

The Raiders came into the game with the most penalties in the league, and that trend continued early in the game with three personal foul penalties on Minnesota's second drive.

Tommy Kelly was flagged for a blow to quarterback Christian Ponder's head on a sack that would have forced a punt.

Aaron Curry then received 15 yards for what the officials called roughing a defenseless receiver on a completion to Kyle Rudolph and Tyvon Branch was whistled for a facemask on Percy Harvin .

"I don't even know what football is right now," Jackson said. "I don't know what hitting is, I don't know what tackling is, and I've been in this league a long time. I can't tell you what tackling or hitting or what's a personal foul or what's anything anymore."


I stated before... unless this comes from one of the "sweetheart teams" its just another team bitching

plenewken
11-21-2011, 09:17 AM
Ask anyone who doesn't like watching the NFL.... what don't they like about it? The answer will mostly be " too many pauses between the action" That's part of the game that has never really bothered me until recently. I feel like the replays and commercial TO's have become excessive. Granted I see that as the least of the NFL's problems, but it's part of a bigger picture that IMO the leadership of the NFL is making poor decisions. It happens in business all the time... just ask NetFlix customers.
.

Football has turned from a sport into a TV show several years ago. It's a joke now.

truesteelerfan
11-21-2011, 09:31 AM
Goodell is ruining the game- it will take years to undo the damage he has done, and is continuing to do behind the false guise of "player safety". He needs to be run out of office...the owners need to talk to their coaches such as Tomlin and now Hugh Jackson- let the commish know he has gone too far. If they don't do something of that sort, it will continue to decline IMO- I wonder what Goodell's long term vision really is? 100 points per team? Touch football? A team in every city in the world? A match up of the SB champ vs. the lingerie league champ?

steelfury02
11-21-2011, 09:48 AM
As I've said, when you've got the golden boys of the league, aka Brady and Rodgers literally saying

"I think its awesome where the league is heading - its like playing Madden sometimes." You know the NFL we once knew no longer exists.

I have confidence though that things will change or at least plateau. When you are excited that your defense is holding teams to under 20 points a game, you know the idea of professional football has been warped. If the 2000 ravens held teams to an average of 20 pts, they would have been 9-7 and not even made the playoffs.

Cmon - the Packers defense is still being hailed and they are giving up a boat load of yards and points. That team wouldn't survive if the rules haven't changed and you can't convince me otherwise.

steelerchad
11-21-2011, 10:50 AM
This kickoff rule is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. I watch Billy Cundiff kick it over the endline 90% of the time. The guy doen't even catch the ball at all. If that's what the kickoff's are going to be, then just start at the damn 20 and don't even have a kickoff. They took one of the most exciting plays in the game and made it one of the most boring plays. Oh, but forget my idea about just starting at the 20, because that would eliminate the spots for commercial breaks before and after the kickoff, which is really what this game is all about now.

As far as these helmet to helmet hits go, I have no idea what actually is and isn't one and I'm an avid football fan and have been for years. My guess is anyone posting on a football message board is probably more than a casual fan. The calls are so inconsistent for these hits that I don't know what should and shouldn't be a flag. Even the announcers don't know. I listened to Dierdorf praise a hit by a Raven defender yesterday that was clearly helmet to helmet. In fact, leading with the helmet, lowering the head and using the helmet to ram the other players helmet. I can deal with the rule, just not the inconsistent enforcement of it. Call it or don't but be consistent. I'd prefer they don't call it unless they deem it flagrant, as in trying to injure. Then let the league deal with the fines later. Don't decide the game with a 15 yard penalty at a crucial time on something that may or may not have occured.

Danny136200
11-21-2011, 11:54 AM
"the golden age of offense and QB's?" That's ridiculous. The offensive outbursts we are seeing is due to rule changes and the fines that Goodall is handing out. The NFL has outlawed defense as we know it. If a corner can no longer touch a WR, a safety cannot hit the WR to knock out the ball, and the QB can't be hit once that ball is thrown....and when you can hit him, you better do it softly (unless your name is Ben) is the reason the game is becoming one dimensional.

This is not a good thing for the sport for it to be one dimensional. More scoring does not make the product better. If that were the case we'd all be watching Arena league or Canadian football.

Yea I love Ben as much as the next guy...he's a great QB on his way to a HOF career. But he's no Dan Marino. Ben does not put up these numbers 10 years ago.

As far as all the rookies that are having success.... I'd say that's just another argument of how poor the quality of the NFL has become. It's now not really a big deal when rookie QB's and WR's put up huge numbers. It used to take QB's and WR's a while to grasp the NFL for a reason....it was always MUCH more difficult then the college game. Now, not so much.

There were some big time passers in the 80's and 90's. So that's nothing new. What is new is the disappearance of the defense. Gone are the big hits. Gone is the variety of style that every team gave you on game day, The kick off return has turned into a joke.

Yes Ben is no Marino, he actually won superbowls. And I would argue that he can put up these numbers 10 years ago because the NFL has not changed much since. And when have you seen so many QBs having success at one time? Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, Tony Romo (yes is actually a pretty good QB). Most of the rules that we are all complaining about has been in the league for a while now. The defenseless receiver has been there for a while, the refs are just calling it with more frequency and fines are coming with hem now. Hitting the QB below the knee is a new rule(kinda) that came out three years ago. nothing much has changed really in the past 10 years. Also, remember the lockout, it has hurt teams both physically and mentally. Mini camp and OTAs where gone.

Danny136200
11-21-2011, 11:57 AM
Something else that no one's brought up... the constant stopping of action for commercials. The NFL loves the instant replay because it gives them more time to play commercials. It wouldn't be so bad if the instant replay was actually called correctly... just about every week you see an official botch a replay call. How does that happen? If it's not the officials incompetence (or corruption) then it's the NFL that has flawed rules. Either way it's a problem. We all know what a friggen catch is. Then the inconsistent enforcement of the rules....it is so out of control...that alone has a large % of fans thinking the game is rigged. 20 years ago, putting a LB in a head lock was a flag. Think that changes things at all?

Ask anyone who doesn't like watching the NFL.... what don't they like about it? The answer will mostly be " too many pauses between the action" That's part of the game that has never really bothered me until recently. I feel like the replays and commercial TO's have become excessive. Granted I see that as the least of the NFL's problems, but it's part of a bigger picture that IMO the leadership of the NFL is making poor decisions. It happens in business all the time... just ask NetFlix customers.

Are ratings up? I've heard some talking heads say that it's up and up and up....but they make a living off the sport... so I'm curious to know what the actual numbers are. Maybe it is up.... maybe I'm a very small % of fan with these opinions. But I do know me and many of my friends used to watch football all day Sunday...and never missed a monday night. I watch steeler games and that is it. I've tried to watch other games and it's become bland to me.

I do agree with you on this topic. the constant commercials are infuriating to me.

steelfury02
11-21-2011, 12:17 PM
yea - the rules might have been around, but its the brain(or lackthereof) that is behind the rediculously high and rediculously inconsistent rate of enforcement that has changed.

Danny136200
11-21-2011, 12:35 PM
yea - the rules might have been around, but its the brain(or lackthereof) that is behind the rediculously high and rediculously inconsistent rate of enforcement that has changed.
Yeah, there has been an increase of the calls, which i do agree with everybody that it is kind of ridiculous sometimes that they call a defender for a clean hit.

tanda10506
11-21-2011, 01:44 PM
Things will go back to normal eventually... As soon as society grows a pair and learn whats good for them. Seeing kids these days makes it seem like that's hardly a possibility

You know, when I made my post I didn't wan't to "go there" and start a conversation like that, but yes you are exactly right. It's society as a whole that is being "sissified". One of the major reasons is because the media portrays what they are paid to portray. With this player safety stuff for example, the majority of players disagree with this pansy ass garbage but that's only leaked through small media venues, you turn on NBC Sunday night football or any other big game though, and the NFL and it's broadcasters will have found some statement made by a player at the time of a fine (trying to avoid being targeted or getting a bigger fine) that supports goodell's policy. Ridiculous.

4xSBChamps
11-21-2011, 02:04 PM
Most of the rules that we are all complaining about has been in the league for a while now.

as-good-as he was in brining the League to the forefront of American sports, many of these rules (legalized holding on pass-plays, no bump-n-run, ticky-tack contact resulting in PI, etc.) were implemented under the rule of Rozelle:
teams (Frisco's pass-n-tab offense) began exploiting them under Tagliabue, and it has sky-rocketed under Ms. Goodell (see Brady, Marsha)

the dirty-little-secret that nobody wants to discuss (especially the girlie-men who run this League) is that with receivers allowed to run-free downfield, we see more vicious hits (and highly-regarded QBs who throw over the middle, further endangering these WR):
back when teams at-least tried to have a 50/50 run/pass ratio, we saw fewer open-field, high-speed collisions (safeties running 20 yards wide-open to plow into a receiver, as they are instructed), and more low-speed, less-violent hits (LB closing a hole on a RB)

Goodell and the rest of the sissies think that scores like yesterday's 49-35 Detroit game are 'entertaining', but they just show how watered-down today's product is (12 total TD in a single-game... are you F'n kidding me???):
it's just basketball played on grass, hyped on ESPN 24/7, for the fantasy-football crowd who doesn't know, or care, the value of a good offensive lineman

now-a-days, I 'might' watch football if 'em Stillers are playing, but it's hard to get enthused over this corn and peanut infested-turd that Ms. Goodell is trying to sell as football:
I sincerely pity the younger fans, who never saw the game in the 1960's or 1970's, and think this is a great era of football

a fan since '67, I now couldn't care less, and for $170 a year, I get 40 NHL games each week pumped into my TV

GOOD-JOB, Ms. GOODELL

stb_steeler
11-21-2011, 02:51 PM
I bet there isnt hardly any coaches in this league that doesnt feel the officiating isnt horrible as of late...Their just afraid to speak up in fear that they may open a can of worms and lose their jobs......EXAMPLE: see Marvin Lewis comment on the loss to the Ravens.
You could almost tell that he wanted to say it, (He got robbed) but he held off!
I heard Goodhell already has the flags pre-ordered for flag football.......:kick:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/ZamereiaNr33m/football-flyer.jpg

bornaSteelersfan
11-21-2011, 10:34 PM
One of the problems with many of these rule changes is that they are inconsistant and even the refs are inconsistant in calling them. For instance, "horse collaring" is illegal, tackling by the hair is legal. Hands to the face is illegal (and may even come with a fine-ask Kemo), stiff-arm to the face is legal. head to head contact by defender is illegal, head down and charging as a running back or receiver is legal.

Just a few years ago a reception was if you catch the ball and then make a "football move", it was considered a catch. Now you have to catch the ball and hold it until some undetermined time after you have landed and stopped moving (not simply when your knees, hip or shoulder have touched the ground).

What happened to the "You cannot fumble the ball forward" rule?! That is completely gone and never even called or looked at for where to place a recovered fumble.

The rules are now not truly rules, but apparently merely "guidelines" for the refs to go by and use as they see fit.

jjpro11
11-21-2011, 10:54 PM
NFL refs are 10x worse than college refs.. i don't understand how in the NFL, there are so many controversial calls each and every game, or games where teams have ridiculous lopsided penalty yardage.. yet in college football, rarely does anyone talk about officiating after a game. it's mind boggling really, considering the NFL hires supposedly the best refs in the world. is the game simply too fast for these guys to keep up? too many rules? how the **** do these refs still not know what is and isn't a catch? or what is and isn't a legal hit? why do these issues almost never come up in college football?

madtowndrunkard
11-21-2011, 11:32 PM
Yes Ben is no Marino, he actually won superbowls. And I would argue that he can put up these numbers 10 years ago because the NFL has not changed much since. And when have you seen so many QBs having success at one time? Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, Tony Romo (yes is actually a pretty good QB). Most of the rules that we are all complaining about has been in the league for a while now. The defenseless receiver has been there for a while, the refs are just calling it with more frequency and fines are coming with hem now. Hitting the QB below the knee is a new rule(kinda) that came out three years ago. nothing much has changed really in the past 10 years. Also, remember the lockout, it has hurt teams both physically and mentally. Mini camp and OTAs where gone.


Yea, what ever.... :rofl:

You've lost all credibility.... I think anyone who's been around the game for 10 years will acknowledge the obvious changes in the game. really? you believe what you just said? wow you really don't have a clue about the sport you seem to be a fan of.

As for Marino's lack of SB rings...what does that have to do with anything? Never mind, please don't answer that. I don't even want to read the response.

TRH
11-21-2011, 11:46 PM
Lots of reasons, many mentioned by others above, are producing poor-to-average football. Some of my reasons are:

1. Extremely poor officating. Its really bad. Used to be that anyone that complained about "refs" were whiners, but nowadays most have more than a strong case when they complain. A hit by one team draws a flag and a fine, while another EXACT same hit, sometimes in the same game, gets no flag and is not fined either. Unreal.
Also, the officials are SO bad...that at times they can't even use their own judgement to make calls (or not make calls) on the field. How many times have you seen a wide receiver miss a pass when closely defended....run back toward the field or officials...start jumping up and down, pointing....THEN there's a flag thrown? Get a backbone, refs.

2. The defense being taken away in football. You can't hit high. You can't hit low. You can't hit hard. You can't hit a QB. And don't even think about hitting one of the "elite" name QB's. I don't even know how they're supposed to tackle anymore. Its closer than you think to "flag" football. I'm not kidding.

3. Roger Goodell. The man has been disastrous for the sport on many levels. I could go on and on and on but i think most have covered it so far. He's a known friend of Pats owner, Bob Kraft, and mysteriously, every year, the Patriots get the softest schedule in the NFL from the league offices. Unreal. Just look at what they have left the rest of this year...

Danny136200
11-22-2011, 12:39 AM
Yea, what ever.... :rofl:

You've lost all credibility.... I think anyone who's been around the game for 10 years will acknowledge the obvious changes in the game. really? you believe what you just said? wow you really don't have a clue about the sport you seem to be a fan of.

As for Marino's lack of SB rings...what does that have to do with anything? Never mind, please don't answer that. I don't even want to read the response.

lol... so do tell, why is it that I lost all my credibility? because I do not agree with your opinions? This is an online forum, none of us has credibility. Yes I do agree with you that the NFL has changed since I began watching it closely in the late 90s, but I do not agree with you in saying that the NFL is worse. It has evolved, progressed; and it has been evolving since its inception.

And as for Marino, you said that Ben is not him, and I agreed with, but I rather have ben than someone who did not win a superbowl.

ricardisimo
11-22-2011, 01:03 AM
Goodell is beyond awful. He's supposed to represent the league as a whole, but he clearly and demonstrably only represents the short-term (fiscal quarter) interests of the owners. In two years they'll run him out of town and say "We should have known better", but it'll be too late by then. I for one will be watching something less slanted and staged, like maybe WWF.

#1LambertFan
11-22-2011, 06:15 AM
Don't we all remember a time when professional wrestling was "real?" 10th years down tye line will I question if football was ever a real sport?

#1LambertFan
11-22-2011, 06:17 AM
Goodell is beyond awful. He's supposed to represent the league as a whole, but he clearly and demonstrably only represents the short-term (fiscal quarter) interests of the owners. In two years they'll run him out of town and say "We should have known better", but it'll be too late by then. I for one will be watching something less slanted and staged, like maybe WWF.

Dammit I didn't read this before my last comment. Kudos for beating me to the punch

4xSBChamps
11-22-2011, 08:27 AM
10th years down the line will I question if football was ever a real sport?

in 10 years, Michele Tafoya of ESPN will be wearing a pair of Band-Aids, a cork and heels while strutting down the sidelines to interview Tom Jackson's delinquent nephew while he is running for a TD:
said bucket of malignant monkey-F will then bust-out his rap-tunes & dance-moves, to be judged by Goodell for the point-after, because the League had done-away with the 20 yard place-kick, on the suggestion of Assistant Commisionor Simon Cowell

ratings will swell, then there will be a 15-minute series of commercials on TV, while fans at the game will be entertained by the Solid Gold Dancer's interpretation of Jackson's celebration:
a good-time will be had by-all!!!

madtowndrunkard
11-22-2011, 08:39 AM
lol... so do tell, why is it that I lost all my credibility? because I do not agree with your opinions? This is an online forum, none of us has credibility. Yes I do agree with you that the NFL has changed since I began watching it closely in the late 90s, but I do not agree with you in saying that the NFL is worse. It has evolved, progressed; and it has been evolving since its inception.

And as for Marino, you said that Ben is not him, and I agreed with, but I rather have ben than someone who did not win a superbowl.


You said football hasn't really changed in the last 10 or so years in terms of how the games are officiated. I'm just saying you obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about... a ridiculous statement to say the least.

and your reply in reference to Marino had nothing to do with what I was saying... it was so far off topic I was a little confused as to what the heck you were even talking about? I guess your sentence about Marino not winning SB's and you'd rather have Ben - further convinced me that I was involved in a conversation with someone that isn't working with all cylinders firing..... or you really don't' have a clue at all about the game you are speaking of.

steelfury02
11-22-2011, 08:41 AM
in 10 years, Michele Tafoya of ESPN will be wearing a pair of Band-Aids, a cork and heels while strutting down the sidelines to interview Tom Jackson's delinquent nephew while he is running for a TD:
said bucket of malignant monkey-F will then bust-out his rap-tunes & dance-moves, to be judged by Goodell for the point-after, because the League had done-away with the 20 yard place-kick, on the suggestion of Assistant Commisionor Simon Cowell

ratings will swell, then there will be a 15-minute series of commercials on TV, while fans at the game will be entertained by the Solid Gold Dancer's interpretation of Jackson's celebration:
a good-time will be had by-all!!!

Re: - Thanks, I just spit out my beloved coke zero - I'm a little disturbed about the thought of Tafoya's wardrobe including a cork . . .

madtowndrunkard
11-22-2011, 09:02 AM
back to the topic... is there a place that shows the history of the NFL tv ratings?

I'd say I would be shocked to hear that NFL ratings are actually up or even the same as past ratings.... I guess I shouldn't be surprised based on the fact that shows like dancing with the stars gets some of the highest ratings as well.

steelfury02
11-22-2011, 09:06 AM
back off topic . . .j/j

The best medicine to fighting off this point-happy, flag football is for the Steelers to win a championship via punching a bunch of teams in the mouth with a balanced offensive attack and a fierce defense. That will shut some Rodgers/Brady lovers up.

Third Rail
11-22-2011, 09:09 AM
Tim Tebow has sold more jerseys this year than any player in the NFL.

That should tell you right there that something is rotten in the state of the league.

madtowndrunkard
11-22-2011, 09:11 AM
I think I found the answer.... at least for ESPN on Monday nights:

(from sports media watch.com)

Through Week 11, ESPN has averaged an 8.4 U.S. rating and 13.265 million viewers for Monday Night Football, down 9% in ratings and 10% in viewership from the same point last year (9.2, 14.700M).

4xSBChamps
11-22-2011, 09:12 AM
Tim Tebow has sold more jerseys this year than any player in the NFL.

That should tell you right there that something is rotten in the state of the league.
"... fine Third Rail $50,000...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/football/Goodellonthephone.jpg

... and send him a Tebow jersey, too!!!"

Third Rail
11-22-2011, 09:15 AM
"... fine Third Rail $50,000...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/football/Goodellonthephone.jpg

... and send him a Tebow jersey, too!!!"

:chuckle:

4xSBChamps
11-22-2011, 09:22 AM
Tim Tebow has sold more jerseys this year than any player in the NFL.

That should tell you right there that something is rotten in the state of the league. "... fine Third Rail $50,000...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/football/Goodellonthephone.jpg

... and send him a Tebow jersey, too!!!" :chuckle:

"... tack-on another $25,000, to show Third Rail that I'm serious!!!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/football/Goodellonthephone.jpg

send him a signature-set of Ray Lewis knives, too..."

steelfury02
11-22-2011, 09:27 AM
lol. I see what you're saying about Tebow jerseys - however, I'd rather see that type of football (option/run heavy offense + great special teams and great defensive play) than

"The Packers are 10-0, Aaron Rodgers has a 130.7 passer rating, they are scoring an average of at least 5 touchdowns a game and there defense forced 3 turnovers"

Fury's add on: oh yea, and they gave up 4 touchdowns, and over 400 yards of offense but that doesn't matter cause Clay Matthews Fathead looks cool and the cornerbacks are awesome due to the fact that the opposing QB is slinging it 50 times a game

madtowndrunkard
11-22-2011, 09:31 AM
also according to "Sports Media Watch":

It has been a soft first half of the season for CBS, as eight of the network’s first thirteen telecasts have had declines in ratings and nine have had declines in viewership. Fox is down slightly.

ESPN's draft coverage ratings were down 17%...additionally 2011 preseason game ratings were down by double digits as well.


My thought is if ratings trend down the next few years we'll see the NFL reconsider what they are doing. If ratings trend up...we'll see more of the same.

Anyway I guess this supports what a lot of us have been saying.

Whodis
11-22-2011, 12:16 PM
The only reason Tebow jerseys are leading is because Bronco fans are too stupid to buy the cheaper knock offs

JustinM
11-22-2011, 12:53 PM
my single favorite thing to watch is a defender making a devastating hit on a wide receiver. I'm looking at you Ryan Clark :)))

Danny136200
11-22-2011, 03:07 PM
You said football hasn't really changed in the last 10 or so years in terms of how the games are officiated. I'm just saying you obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about... a ridiculous statement to say the least.

and your reply in reference to Marino had nothing to do with what I was saying... it was so far off topic I was a little confused as to what the heck you were even talking about? I guess your sentence about Marino not winning SB's and you'd rather have Ben - further convinced me that I was involved in a conversation with someone that isn't working with all cylinders firing..... or you really don't' have a clue at all about the game you are speaking of.

lol, I never said officiating has not changed much at all, I said the rules that people have been complaining about has been there for a while. I even acknowledged that refs have been calling unnecessary roughness on a defenseless receiver penalty with much more frequency than years past. What I said was that the game itself (I.E, not officiating wise, game play wise) has not changed much these past ten years. Yes teams are throwing it more often than back then, but there were offenses that were still very explosive in the passing game (the packers and rams back then come to mind).



And as for Marino, yes he is a better passer than Ben, he has passing records and accolades up the ass, but I would rather have Ben as my QB because he has shown time and time again, in the playoffs and superbowls, that he can come through in pressure situations and take his team to victory. Hell, he even has a better playoff record than Marino. Marino, a great passer as he was, never took his team to the next step the way Ben has, that is all i am saying.


So you can go back and attack my mental state and my knowledge of the game, good day sir.

steelfury02
11-22-2011, 07:52 PM
I tell ya, the one thing that hasn't been brought up is the effect the economy has had on ratings

Basically, I feel that more than ever, due to the economy:

- people are getting rid of what bills they can, thus canceling of cable services. I know at least a lot people that purposely don't have a land line, and basically just watch movies they own and have the internet.

- More and more employers are taking advantage of the economy and treating employees in the manner of "you should just be happy to have a job" - increase in nights and weekend hours are way up. Employers are squeezing out of their employees more than they ever have and without pay raises. You either work longer hours and on nights and weekends or someone else will be happy to have your job. Myself included, have missed more games in the past couple years. Its not a coincidence that the proliferation of technology has us checking our work email on our personal phones, given laptops we can take home from work, etc,etc

I don't have stats, and yes - maybe I'm making a sweeping generalization - but I have a lot of co-workers, friends, family that are having to make a lot more sacrifices, learning how to live with less while working more. You do what you gotta do so entertainment has suffered, thus the decrease in ratings. I think that is at least one part of it in addition to the change in the product.

bornaSteelersfan
11-22-2011, 08:23 PM
:iagree: What he said. I work every Sunday and don't see any games. I cancelled my cable TV - too much money. I only have jerseys that I got as presents.

OX1947
11-22-2011, 08:35 PM
The only reason Tebow jerseys are leading is because Bronco fans are too stupid to buy the cheaper knock offs

Knock offs are garbage. Ironed on garbage. My auntie Silvia can ironed better jerseys then the crap they have in stores. Wear it right or do not wear it at all. Besides, is there anything more gay then another man wearing another man's jersey?

OX1947
11-22-2011, 08:37 PM
I cancelled my cable in July forever. Worst pile of shit and biggest waste of money is cable. I got directv, free Sunday ticket for the year, all the channels, and the referral program helped me make my bill 19.40 a month for the next year. I was paying 90 dollars for garbage with cable. I didn't even have all the basic channels. Pathetic.

ricardisimo
11-22-2011, 08:57 PM
Knock offs are garbage. Ironed on garbage. My auntie Silvia can ironed better jerseys then the crap they have in stores. Wear it right or do not wear it at all. Besides, is there anything more gay then another man wearing another man's jersey?
Well, yes, there is another man wearing another man, period. There's also "Oklahoma!" and "Music Man". And of course there's worrying about what is gay or not gay. That's gay.

Stu Pidasso
11-22-2011, 11:44 PM
I do agree with you on this topic. the constant commercials are infuriating to me.

Here's what I do: I start to record the game on my DVR. Wait 23 minutes. Then start the game from the beginning, skipping the commercials. I'm caught up by halftime. Wait 23 more minutes, repeat, rinse, recycle. Game's over on time, I don't see a second of commercials.

4xSBChamps
11-23-2011, 05:15 AM
I do agree with you on this topic. the constant commercials are infuriating to me.

while watching a hockey game on a recent Sunday night, I glanced at NBC, to see what was happening:
I jotted down the time when the opening kick-off happened (8:37 PM), then again when the 1st quarter ended (9:32 PM)

55 minutes to play 15 minutes of football

I can only imagine that the 2nd quarter (complete with the 2-minute warning, intentional incompletions, time-outs and botched FG attempts) took at-least-as long, probably even longer:
I believe the half-time show was still-on at 10:45PM, when I called it a day

the League didn't move SNF & MNF kick-off to 8:30 so that young kids could stay-up and watch the games on a school-night:
they did it so they could run more commercials, because it appears the games still end approximately the same times as they did with a 9:00 start

steelfury02
11-23-2011, 06:57 AM
word to ya motha -

jjpro11
11-23-2011, 08:12 AM
i stopped watching basketball all-together because i just couldn't take all the starting and stopping and commercials. the NCAA tourney is far and away, the absolute worst sporting event for whoring commercials. every single time time out, injury, or any slightly extended pause.. they cut to commercials. there are planned TV timeouts every couple minutes. there could be 10 seconds left in a tie game, and instead of talking to the viewers about possible strategy for the upcoming play, they cut to commercials.

what's nice about the NHL is you only get 3 commercials per period.. every 5 minutes. they don't cut to commercials after a penalty, or even injuries.. the best part is in overtime, when there are zero commercials.. 20 minute overtimes in the playoffs, a part of the game where viewership is likely at its peak, and there are no commercials whatsoever. just constant flowing action. i realize the sponsorship dollars aren't what they are for the NFL and basketball. it's just nice to be able to watch a professional sport and not have commercials crammed down your throat at every possible chance.

SteelBlaze1
11-23-2011, 11:36 AM
I tell ya, the one thing that hasn't been brought up is the effect the economy has had on ratings

Basically, I feel that more than ever, due to the economy:

- people are getting rid of what bills they can, thus canceling of cable services. I know at least a lot people that purposely don't have a land line, and basically just watch movies they own and have the internet.

- More and more employers are taking advantage of the economy and treating employees in the manner of "you should just be happy to have a job" - increase in nights and weekend hours are way up. Employers are squeezing out of their employees more than they ever have and without pay raises. You either work longer hours and on nights and weekends or someone else will be happy to have your job. Myself included, have missed more games in the past couple years. Its not a coincidence that the proliferation of technology has us checking our work email on our personal phones, given laptops we can take home from work, etc,etc

I don't have stats, and yes - maybe I'm making a sweeping generalization - but I have a lot of co-workers, friends, family that are having to make a lot more sacrifices, learning how to live with less while working more. You do what you gotta do so entertainment has suffered, thus the decrease in ratings. I think that is at least one part of it in addition to the change in the product.

Well said Steelfury...I have been going through this a lot over the last 3 years (had to move/downsize, wife lost job, my hours cut in half, etc.). We basically stay home, watch movies and NFL Network on Directv. It has changed my view of what we "want" to pay for compared to what we "have" to pay for.

#1LambertFan
11-25-2011, 09:13 AM
my single favorite thing to watch is a defender making a devastating hit on a wide receiver. I'm looking at you Ryan Clark :)))

I'm very sad that I haven't bought a Clark jersey yet. I normally buy one every year for the player that is a complete wrecking ball all season, and Harrison has spoiled me lately.I'll get one in time for playoffs. Gave the Porter jersey away A LONG time ago lol

steelfury02
11-25-2011, 06:29 PM
yea - its pretty darn tough out there - this has been a great opportunity to reflect on what is really important during the holidays and it is quite refreshing to see every actually enjoy each other more rather than going nuts and getting stressed over shopping

Bayz101
11-26-2011, 12:50 AM
Here's what I do: I start to record the game on my DVR. Wait 23 minutes. Then start the game from the beginning, skipping the commercials. I'm caught up by halftime. Wait 23 more minutes, repeat, rinse, recycle. Game's over on time, I don't see a second of commercials.

I wish I could do that, but I CAN NOT watch a game unless it's live. Watching a recorded game while the live game is airing in nearly impossible for me. I have to know what's going on at the very second.

RatbirdExtreme
11-26-2011, 08:08 PM
Its not often that I agree with much on this board, but Im 100% in agreement with pretty much everything in this thread. The only thing I can add is the CBA also hurt the quality of play as well. Sure they practice in pads less, and practice less completely. But you can very definitely see a slip in the quality of overall play.

"The refs hate us/ The NFL hates us/ Godell hates us, pretty common themes on both the Steelers board and the Ravens board. Im not sure that Godell hates us, but I do think he wishes defensively oriented and talented teams (ie Ravens and Steelers) would just go away. Im sure he absolutely hated the Ravens/49ers game on Thanksgiving night and wishes the Packers and Saints had played the primetime slot.

Im old enough to remember the Steel Curtain (damn you guys for always beating the Bert Jones led Colts in the playoffs), and I certainly remember the Ravens D in the early 2000s. Im a huge fan of defensive football, and I see it becoming more and more obsolete.

Can't even touch the QB now, watch some old clips of Butkus and wonder if he would last 2 games in this league. LOL, headslaps were legal and a very normal tactic.

Kanata-Steeler
11-27-2011, 06:43 AM
In time, Harrison's so-called "remarks" against Godell will be proven all too true.