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View Full Version : is a 20 point win too much to ask for?


tony hipchest
11-27-2011, 05:25 PM
in 4 of the cheifs losses they were completely blown up, giving up about 40 points agame.

how bout a defensive TO for a TD, maybe some semblance of a running game, complete ball control, efficiency with td's in the redzone and 3 td's in the running game just to remind folks (and dec-jan teams) we can do that too.

is that all too much to ask for? :tt02:

tanda10506
11-27-2011, 05:43 PM
Wow Tony, unusual critical tone:chuckle:

But no, it's not to much to ask for, all those things would be great and blowing them out in Arrowhead would be cool!! Let's Go Steelers!!!:tt03::tt02::tt04::tt:

Steeler4life1972
11-27-2011, 05:44 PM
Im with ya...heres to a blowout...my heart cant take many more close ones!!

tanda10506
11-27-2011, 06:08 PM
Im with ya...heres to a blowout...my heart cant take many more close ones!!

At least not a close one against a team playing poorly with a back up QB, come on!!!

stb_steeler
11-27-2011, 06:09 PM
Better hope we dont play down to them, we hardly ever run the board up on anyone!

joeyssteelcurtain
11-27-2011, 06:34 PM
I say STEELERS 34 to 12

NoFieldFive
11-27-2011, 06:35 PM
time for a specials teams TD. Brown runs one back

joeyssteelcurtain
11-27-2011, 06:41 PM
I want Ben to have 6 tds

Steel_Bus_24
11-27-2011, 06:43 PM
I smell another close one

Hope its just all the remaining food smells in the house left over from Turkey Day confusing me and we get a big W

:tt04:

BengalDestroyer
11-27-2011, 06:51 PM
Brown delivers!(UPS!) gets himself a KO return for a TD...

casteeler
11-27-2011, 06:57 PM
I want Ben to have 6 tds

I'm with ya!

steelerchad
11-27-2011, 07:16 PM
Love to see it, but probably is too much to ask for.
I've seen the Steelers twice this year go down the field for TD, TD on their first 2 drives only to have the offense cease up and hang on for a close win. At times they look unstoppable. They haven't put it all together in 1 game yet this year, maybe this will be it.

AndyWitmyer
11-27-2011, 07:48 PM
I predict an unusually strong opening performance by the Chiefs. The kind that will bring out the pessimists and the Arians/Tomlin/"Insert-Name-Here" Haters in full force. And then it be a complete Steelers demolition from there on. The kind that will send the pessimists and the Arians/Tomlin/"Inset-Name-Here" Haters packing!

ricardisimo
11-27-2011, 07:58 PM
Be careful what you ask for, Tone. Arians can't put two good games together, so I think I'd prefer using up his better efforts next week or after.

tony hipchest
11-27-2011, 08:10 PM
Be careful what you ask for, Tone. Arians can't put two good games together, so I think I'd prefer using up his better efforts next week or after.thats what worries me. our last 2 games vs the cheifs seem to be a microcosm of that.

btaylor179
11-27-2011, 09:23 PM
we dont blow out anyone

steelbad@50
11-27-2011, 09:39 PM
we dont blow out anyone

So true, still i dont care as long as we win.:tt04::tt03::tt02:

AndyWitmyer
11-27-2011, 10:34 PM
My prediction was almost correct. Except for the dominating part. How can they not be ahead by more than two possessions?

TRH
11-27-2011, 11:30 PM
Yes.....its too much to ask.

We're lucky if we win by a combined 20 points in 3 consecutive wins.

AndyWitmyer
11-27-2011, 11:32 PM
D gives us the turnovers and we basically do almost nothing with them. I think that was the most head-scratching element of the game by far

stb_steeler
11-27-2011, 11:32 PM
Im with ya...heres to a blowout...my heart cant take many more close ones!!

Guess u having a heart attack cause its a close one again......

JustinM
11-27-2011, 11:33 PM
lamest W ever.

Steel_Bus_24
11-27-2011, 11:37 PM
That was fffing awful

Our O should be totatly ashamed......

I hope the D gets to do/or have any humiliating thing they want, done to our pitiful Offense

Fire Arians
11-27-2011, 11:39 PM
A win on the road without major injuries, ill take it.

MACH1
11-27-2011, 11:41 PM
A win on the road without major injuries, ill take it.

:huh:

Troy's concussion not a major injury?

RichardCullinanForever
11-27-2011, 11:41 PM
That had to be the worst Steeler's win I've ever witnessed. I know 'a win is a win' and I (along with everyone in SteelersNation) will absolutely take it, but it almost feels like we just got beat. It's a weird feeling. I would call it bitter sweet, but I'm not feeling much sweetness right now. Just bitter.

defence
11-27-2011, 11:46 PM
That was fffing awful

Our O should be totatly ashamed......

I hope the D gets do to/or have any humiliating thing they want, done to our pitiful Offense

Absolutely pitiful. I know the fire Ariens thing has been going on for a while; but this guy is an absolute idiot!! Thank god we were playing palko tonight and not some even half a nfl qb!!! Ariens sucks period!!

stb_steeler
11-27-2011, 11:46 PM
To much Turkey dinner i guess......:doh:

Danny136200
11-27-2011, 11:47 PM
That had to be the worst Steeler's win I've ever witnessed. I know 'a win is a win' and I (along with everyone in SteelersNation) will absolutely take it, but it almost feels like we just got beat. It's a weird feeling. I would call it bitter sweet, but I'm not feeling much sweetness right now. Just bitter.

IDK about the ugliest win lol; there has been some very ugly ones in the past. The steelers just could not move the ball in the second half.

MillerMania83
11-27-2011, 11:48 PM
A win is a win in the NFL, take as ya can get em....But honestly that performance, mostly the offense, was TERRIBLE....Good teams BLOW OUT the Chiefs....We are coming off a bye and thats what we put out there tonight....Just SLOPPY, way too many penalties, dropped balls, just really not getting it done at a standard the great teams in this league are right now....Injuries are always a factor, but every team has injuries, NO EXCUSE....Was GREAT to see the D step up and get some turnovers tonight, but our offense, well, was really offensive and couldn't put the points on the board early or late in the game to put KC out of their misery tonight....Love Mike Wallace, but recently, hasn't been stepping up, ya want to be a big time #1 WR in this league, HAVE TO MAKE THE PLAYS, PLAIN and SIMPLE.

casteeler
11-27-2011, 11:49 PM
That had to be the worst Steeler's win I've ever witnessed. I know 'a win is a win' and I (along with everyone in SteelersNation) will absolutely take it, but it almost feels like we just got beat. It's a weird feeling. I would call it bitter sweet, but I'm not feeling much sweetness right now. Just bitter.

I recall a muddy fieldgoal only game on prime time TV a couple of years ago against Miami(i think), that was uglier

JCPsteelers
11-28-2011, 12:02 AM
Offense sucked especially the OL. Wallace had two drops, Miller and Brown each had a drop. Big Ben made a horrible throw for a pick. Sucks, but the defense did enough to win it for us. Chalk up the victory and move on. 5 games to go.

Kanata-Steeler
11-28-2011, 12:09 AM
No it's not,
and I blame LeBeau for not getting atleast 7 more points for us !!!
;)

tanda10506
11-28-2011, 12:12 AM
The defense did pretty well. I thought we gave up to much yardage on the last drive, but good stops and 4 turnovers, and 9 points is pretty good. I wish we could get some better qb pressure though, Woodley will help with that when he is back. The offense, flat disgusting.

Fire Arians
11-28-2011, 12:40 AM
:huh:

Troy's concussion not a major injury?

I'm no doctor but it didn't look bad, they probably left him out as a precaution since the D was doing well without him. If it was a playoff game he'd Prolly be back in

stb_steeler
11-28-2011, 12:49 AM
I'm no doctor but it didn't look bad, they probably left him out as a precaution since the D was doing well without him. If it was a playoff game he'd Prolly be back in

Troy needs to change the way he tackles, if that what u call it, the next time maybe a career ending headbutt......I was wondering where his head was at before that injury happened because he got burned 4 plays in row with miss tackles.

madtowndrunkard
11-28-2011, 12:56 AM
That fumble near the goal line changed the entire game. If we score a TD there, it's probably a blow out.

From there we then made it our mission to lose this game.... dropped balls everywhere...penalties every minute....and a pitiful job by our coaching staff. I'm shocked we won.

stb_steeler
11-28-2011, 01:16 AM
That fumble near the goal line changed the entire game. If we score a TD there, it's probably a blow out.

From there we then made it our mission to lose this game.... dropped balls everywhere...penalties every minute....and a pitiful job by our coaching staff. I'm shocked we won.

Having no finger nails left would prove u right......

Danny136200
11-28-2011, 02:27 AM
in 4 of the cheifs losses they were completely blown up, giving up about 40 points agame.

how bout a defensive TO for a TD, maybe some semblance of a running game, complete ball control, efficiency with td's in the redzone and 3 td's in the running game just to remind folks (and dec-jan teams) we can do that too.

is that all too much to ask for? :tt02:

It was waaaaaaaay too much to ask for tony, waaay too much. I think the defesne played pretty solid and tyler Palko was very clutch for us, but the offense just did not show up at all in the second half.

bornaSteelersfan
11-28-2011, 03:04 AM
It was waaaaaaaay too much to ask for tony, waaay too much. I think the defesne played pretty solid and tyler Palko was very clutch for us, but the offense just did not show up at all in the second half.

I don't think the offense showed up much in the first half, either. Fumble in the red zone by Moore and a dropped ball in the end zone by Wallace just for starters. This was an ugly win and if Matt Cassel were playing, we easily lose this game.

It was nice to see Worilds get a sack (although the commentators didn't even give him due credit). It was also nice to see "stone hands" Ike get an int. I do think Ben's thumb was a bit of a factor in his int and a few under-thrown passes.

I'll take the win, though and move on. We are definitely "flying under the radar" right now, which it seems is how we like it.

Ricco Suavez
11-28-2011, 06:38 AM
Ugliest win ever? Not even close. Anybody remember Miami a few years back something like 3-0 or 6-3 in the bad turf bowl.

Good teams find ways to win esp. on the road. I also think the bye while coming at a good time for rest and to get healthy may have cost us our competitive edge a little. Put this game behind us and prepare for the Bengals.

CargoJon
11-28-2011, 08:07 AM
Ugliest win ever? Not even close. Anybody remember Miami a few years back something like 3-0 or 6-3 in the bad turf bowl.

Good teams find ways to win esp. on the road. I also think the bye while coming at a good time for rest and to get healthy may have cost us our competitive edge a little. Put this game behind us and prepare for the Bengals.

Wasn't that the one where the punt landed in the soggy turf and just stuck straight up in the air - didn't roll or anything, just stuck.

Steel_Bus_24
11-28-2011, 08:11 AM
Wasn't that the one where the punt landed in the soggy turf and just stuck straight up in the air - didn't roll or anything, just stuck.

yeah but at least there was an excuse for that suckFest

steelfury02
11-28-2011, 09:01 AM
Well, "a win is a win" but that did nothing to sharpen our swords. We looked like a one and done team last night. If we faced even the likes of Sanchez with that performance we would have lost.

I put a lot of the performance on Bruce Arians. Run, Run, Empty Set Pass. He did no planning to keep his QB protected or get Heath Miller the ball. I did enjoy the token throws to Ward.

My glass is barely half full anymore. When you see the Patriots go into Philly and lay a whooping on them, and then compare that road win to ours, our offense isn't doing their job. Again - getting so tired of the offense putting all the pressure back on the defense.

This is no resemblance of an explosive offense - more like a well oiled house salad.

Curtain_of_Steel
11-28-2011, 10:07 AM
Rooneys would put Tomlin is the timeout chair if he ever would do a Belicheck/Brady to the an opponent.

We would rather play 2 quarters of prevent defense, keep everyone on pins and needles and make the game close. Than embarrass an opponent.

stlrtruck
11-28-2011, 10:08 AM
I think if that were to happen a whole new generation of Steelers fans would get season tickets as the current ones would probably kill over.

Danny136200
11-28-2011, 02:50 PM
I don't think the offense showed up much in the first half, either. Fumble in the red zone by Moore and a dropped ball in the end zone by Wallace just for starters. This was an ugly win and if Matt Cassel were playing, we easily lose this game.

It was nice to see Worilds get a sack (although the commentators didn't even give him due credit). It was also nice to see "stone hands" Ike get an int. I do think Ben's thumb was a bit of a factor in his int and a few under-thrown passes.

I'll take the win, though and move on. We are definitely "flying under the radar" right now, which it seems is how we like it.

Lol you are right, the offense had a pretty bad showing the whole game; the defense (and Palko forgetting he does not play in Pitt anymore) helped the offense get a big enough cushion to see this game out.

stb_steeler
11-28-2011, 05:05 PM
Ugliest win ever? Not even close. Anybody remember Miami a few years back something like 3-0 or 6-3 in the bad turf bowl.

Good teams find ways to win esp. on the road. I also think the bye while coming at a good time for rest and to get healthy may have cost us our competitive edge a little. Put this game behind us and prepare for the Bengals.

Yep you'd be correct...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7DTNEa2E7w

Ricco Suavez
11-28-2011, 05:48 PM
Well at least its not like two years ago when the offense would get us leads late in games and the "D" could not hold any of them, one against this very team.

I personally think teams that find a way to win when things are not clicking are more dangerous than the ones who blow out opponents, their B holes tighten up come playoff time when someone hangs with them. I.E the Patriots, Colts, Chargers, and Saints have all had success and also some of the biggest chokes come playoff time.

tanda10506
11-28-2011, 05:49 PM
Im not putting to much into it. Yes it was a horrible performance but we never blow teams out, ever, I never expect it. As poorly as the offense performed we still could have had 14 more points if WR's just hung onto the ball. It was an embarassing game, but it was after a bye and we still managed to win. As long as we get the "heart" back against Cincy we will be fine.

ricardisimo
11-28-2011, 05:51 PM
yeah but at least there was an excuse for that suckFest

That was a beautiful game, and as I recall I wasn't alone in thinking so; it was the biggest draw that week as far as Nielsen ratings. I'll take those mudbowl/icebowl contests any day of the week over the arena league Goodell is building.

Steel_Bus_24
11-28-2011, 06:21 PM
That was a beautiful game, and as I recall I wasn't alone in thinking so; it was the biggest draw that week as far as Nielsen ratings. I'll take those mudbowl/icebowl contests any day of the week over the arena league Goodell is building.

by in large I agree....

I hate all the "Throw the ball up and complain for a Flag" Fantasy FB BS too

I call that Dolphins game a suckfest because it was on our part......they were an awful winless team

I love the type of games like our games with B-More in 08,...but those are different then what we did last night......which was dick around with inferior competition to the point where it it costs us

Fire Arians
11-28-2011, 07:09 PM
it was off a bye week and against a nobody opponent, the very trappiest of trap games. don't worry guys, we will come out firing against the bengals

if mike wallace doesnt drop 2 balls we win this by over 14 points, the chiefs were lucky to be in this game.

ricardisimo
11-28-2011, 07:38 PM
it was off a bye week and against a nobody opponent, the very trappiest of trap games. don't worry guys, we will come out firing against the bengals

if mike wallace doesnt drop 2 balls we win this by over 14 points, the chiefs were lucky to be in this game.
Ha! You've gone soft, dude. You of all people. This was more than just poor execution by the players. It was a bad game plan offensively. Away game, loud (non-dome) stadium, QB with a broken throwing-hand thumb, playing one of the worst run Ds in the league... for all sorts of reasons the plan should have been all-Mendy, all night. Instead it seemed like he would only get his name called after a drop by one of the receivers. And when he did break off a good run, I swear three pass plays would follow.

These are just not the things a rational human being does. And so long as our game plans are not rational, you can't say "we'll be alright next week." Who knows if we'll be OK? Gradkowski would have killed us in this game, and then it might be deja vu all over again.

Fire Arians
11-28-2011, 08:16 PM
Ha! You've gone soft, dude. You of all people. This was more than just poor execution by the players. It was a bad game plan offensively. Away game, loud (non-dome) stadium, QB with a broken throwing-hand thumb, playing one of the worst run Ds in the league... for all sorts of reasons the plan should have been all-Mendy, all night. Instead it seemed like he would only get his name called after a drop by one of the receivers. And when he did break off a good run, I swear three pass plays would follow.

These are just not the things a rational human being does. And so long as our game plans are not rational, you can't say "we'll be alright next week." Who knows if we'll be OK? Gradkowski would have killed us in this game, and then it might be deja vu all over again.

yeah i was watching the game with my brother (chiefs fan) and he was even saying if he was the steelers OC, he would keep running the ball. and I was like 'run the ball? not gonna happen, this is bruce arians' :chuckle:4

i guess at this point I'm just glad we came out of that stadium with a win. I sort of expected a letdown game considering the bye week and playing a shitty team.

tony hipchest
11-28-2011, 08:16 PM
i think it was in 07 when we went up to denver to play one of the worst teams in the league (with a rookie cutler at qb).

willie parker was leading the league in rushing yardage and denver was dead last allowing over 200 yds per game.

gameplan is simple, right? the run game was left on the bus. ben threw about 40 times and about 3 ints and we lose.

typical shennanigans from the mad scientist (that'll trick em! :muhaha:)

last night was the perfect evening to usher in december football in a hostile enviornment for nothing else but to keep opposing coordinators on their toes, guessing, and honest.

even the most piss poor teams can stumble across a 60+ yd run once or twice in a 3 year span. better teams can scheme for and manufacture it. not the steelers. why try when you got arians brain + bens arm?

Fire Arians
11-28-2011, 08:21 PM
speaking of the trickery, anyone remember that play where we did a handoff to the fullback, sending the tailback into motion?

am i the only one who thought this play was stupid and made no sense at all? if you wanted to fool the defense by handing it off to the fullback, don't motion out the halfback, giving the D only 1 person to key on in an obvious running formation.

steelax04
11-28-2011, 08:21 PM
That was a beautiful game, and as I recall I wasn't alone in thinking so; it was the biggest draw that week as far as Nielsen ratings. I'll take those mudbowl/icebowl contests any day of the week over the arena league Goodell is building.

Hey, that was one exciting game... especially when they evacutated the stadium out to the concourses due to the thunderstorms.

Danny136200
11-28-2011, 08:49 PM
i think it was in 07 when we went up to denver to play one of the worst teams in the league (with a rookie cutler at qb).

willie parker was leading the league in rushing yardage and denver was dead last allowing over 200 yds per game.

gameplan is simple, right? the run game was left on the bus. ben threw about 40 times and about 3 ints and we lose.

typical shennanigans from the mad scientist (that'll trick em! :muhaha:)

last night was the perfect evening to usher in december football in a hostile enviornment for nothing else but to keep opposing coordinators on their toes, guessing, and honest.

even the most piss poor teams can stumble across a 60+ yd run once or twice in a 3 year span. better teams can scheme for and manufacture it. not the steelers. why try when you got arians brain + bens arm?

I remember that game. Specifically how the defense was getting beat on the short passing game, and how Ben was not really helping out (a fumble returned for a TD and a couple of picks if I remember correctly). We did comeback from a double-digit deficit, but the defense could not hold them in the end.

And about the running game that night, you are absolutely right about that. The steelers just seemed disinterested in running the ball, ALOT like this game, except the Defense ended the game.

tony hipchest
11-28-2011, 09:29 PM
I remember that game. Specifically how the defense was getting beat on the short passing game, and how Ben was not really helping out (a fumble returned for a TD and a couple of picks if I remember correctly). We did comeback from a double-digit deficit, but the defense could not hold them in the end.

And about the running game that night, you are absolutely right about that. The steelers just seemed disinterested in running the ball, ALOT like this game, except the Defense ended the game.EVERY fantasy geek, talking head, analyst, and ex-player/coach was pretty much chalking up willie parker vs that defense as the match up of the decade. i think denver had just allowed almost 500 yds rushing to OAK and SD in the 2 weeks prior.

:banging:

MACH1
11-28-2011, 09:43 PM
Even a few of the arians apologist's are beginning to see the light. Cept there's still the diehards blaming the player execution, o-line for lack of a running game or the D for allowing more than seven points.

madtowndrunkard
11-28-2011, 10:22 PM
The notion that the Steelers never blow anyone out came from Bill Cowher's (and a long time Steeler) philosophy of playing great defense, running the ball, controlling the clock, and limiting mistakes. It takes great coaching to discipline players enough to use this kind of game plan...players have to believe in the system for it to work. Under Cowher it worked well....we never lost games in the 4th quarter...EVER. And he did it with garbage QB's.

Arians is hell bent on making a name for him self. He so badly wants to get out of the Cowher shadow and do his own thing. Since Tomlin and Arians have taken over the show 4th quarter losses aren't all that rare. When you take on a passing offense you better stop playing close and letting the opponent hang around. When you can't manage the clock and you give the opponent the opportunity to make defensive plays by being pass happy - you set your self up for late game collapses. With our Arians offense we damn well better start blowing some teams out...that is obviously the goal of BA...score on every play.

With the talent this team has, there is NO excuse for us to struggle offensively. If the offense can't consistently execute the game plan...then maybe you should adjust your game plan to better fit your players? Arians refuses to do this.

Pass first offenses put more pressure on the defense, by putting them on the field more, leaving time on the clock, and putting them on short fields often. GB runs an efficient passing offense that scores often...we run an inefficient passing offense that stumbles often.

tony hipchest
11-28-2011, 10:23 PM
Even a few of the arians apologist's are beginning to see the light. Cept there's still the diehards blaming the player execution, o-line for lack of a running game or the D for allowing more than seven points.

sounds like the same die hard gurus who think a deep bomb to wallace is a high percentage play and if the genius bruce decides to call it 20 times in a game, it damn well better be executed to the tune of 20 td's. :rolleyes:

:jerkit:

(theres a lesson that can be learned in lebeau not blitzing EVERY single down.)

sometimes the other team takes the field. if its all about execution, then why are the coaches even needed? :tap:

madtowndrunkard
11-28-2011, 10:30 PM
Really I think the problem is not so much Arian's philosophy. I think the problem is Arians ability to coach the players to execute his game. How often do plays break down? How often do we see missed blocks, wrong routes, sacks, Ben running for his life, etc? These are all products of broken down plays. To me Sunday was a great example of what I'm talking about. We looked unprepared. We aren't sharp. We lack cohesiveness. Like we need more practice at running the plays we are trying to run. That falls on the inablity of the coaching staff to get your team prepared to do what you want them to do. This is the problem of Bruce Arians...and ultimately Mike Tomlin. This same thing is also the strength of Dick Lebeau. He rarely starts rookies because of the this very reason. It often takes us 2-3 years to develop our players on defense.

Usually when our defense gets beat...it's often because of over aggressiveness...or an opponent just beat us. It's rarely because of a bad mistake or mental lapse. When a player makes mental errors on defense he gets yanked.

ricardisimo
11-29-2011, 12:11 AM
I've pointed it out twenty times already, and I'll keep doing it: Dick Lebeau regularly produces six, seven, and eight game stretches of pure domination. Hell, even entire seasons of it.

When was the last time Bruce Arians strung together two solid - just solid, mind you... forget dominating - performances? I think he's done it once or twice in his entire tenure. Maybe. Being generous, I think.

And this is someone with future Hall of Famers on his rosters. I used to make excuses about him, that he was a decent coach during the week, just an awful playcaller. I'm not so sure anymore. He might just suck great big donkey dicks. :noidea:

Fire Arians
11-29-2011, 03:47 AM
I've pointed it out twenty times already, and I'll keep doing it: Dick Lebeau regularly produces six, seven, and eight game stretches of pure domination. Hell, even entire seasons of it.

When was the last time Bruce Arians strung together two solid - just solid, mind you... forget dominating - performances? I think he's done it once or twice in his entire tenure. Maybe. Being generous, I think.

And this is someone with future Hall of Famers on his rosters. I used to make excuses about him, that he was a decent coach during the week, just an awful playcaller. I'm not so sure anymore. He might just suck great big donkey dicks. :noidea:

pretty much. he must be the only super bowl winning OC i can think of that had 0 teams interested in hiring him as a head coach.

Rockonsteel
11-29-2011, 12:52 PM
Nevermind a 20 point win. Is it too much to ask for the Steelers offense to score 20 pts. in a game?. Why is it such a struggle for the Steelers to score 20 pts.? Other teams with a franchise QB and weapons all over the field score 30 pts.+ with regularity, often times making it look easy. The Steelers scoring 30 is equivalent to the Saints scoring 50 pts last night against the G-Men. Truly, truly pathetic!! :mad:

ricardisimo
11-29-2011, 04:22 PM
Nevermind a 20 point win. Is it too much to ask for the Steelers offense to score 20 pts. in a game?. Why is it such a struggle for the Steelers to score 20 pts.? Other teams with a franchise QB and weapons all over the field score 30 pts.+ with regularity, often times making it look easy. The Steelers scoring 30 is equivalent to the Saints scoring 50 pts last night against the G-Men. Truly, truly pathetic!! :mad:
Whoa, whoa, whoa... "pathetic" is a little over the top. That's just hyperbolic homerism. It is frustrating, indeed, but these Steelers are not pathetic.

steelfury02
11-29-2011, 08:17 PM
Agree - not pathetic, but consistently frustrating

DanRooney
11-29-2011, 09:15 PM
I wonder if Mewelde Moore will get more carries inside the 10. Hilarious playcall.

Rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 09:25 AM
Whoa, whoa, whoa... "pathetic" is a little over the top. That's just hyperbolic homerism. It is frustrating, indeed, but these Steelers are not pathetic.

This offense stinks! Really? 4 Turnovers, and you score 13 pts.? Against the Chiefs? Really? That is definitely pathetic.

The Steelers struggle to score more than 2 tds a game. Anything more than that is not something the Steelers can count on with any frequency. And some games, that has proven too tall an order. When the Steelers score 30 pts., it's "stop the presses" kinda news. That is not acceptable with the personnel at their disposal, O-line notwithstanding.

You watch how smoothly and efficiently other teams offenses run. The way they score multiple tds a game. Meanwhile, the Steelers offense struggles in fits and starts. Sometimes looking brilliant, but way often, other times looking downright pedestrian. Some consistency would go a long way with this offense. A new OC would go a long way to that end.

I didn't say the Steelers were pathetic. I said this offense is pathetic. They would've lost that game Sunday to any team with a "B" QB. They should thank their lucky stars that it was Tyler Palko. And that with the defense getting them the ball back on turnovers for a change. 13 pts.? Pathetic.

And, I'm not overreacting to one game. If you've watched all season, other than some shining moments here and there, this offense has been disastrous way more than it should for a team of this caliber. I have a name for it. I use it with my friends all the time. It's called a clusterf@#k!

I'll use it in a sentence....."Why is it other teams can make these plays look so easy, but when we run them, it's a clusterf@#k?".

Perfect example is the goalline play they ran where Sanders and Brown(or Wallace, can't recall offhand) ran into each other. Other teams make that play look really easy. The Steelers made it look like a Chinese fire drill.


Rockon

FanSince72
11-30-2011, 09:50 AM
Even a few of the arians apologist's are beginning to see the light. Cept there's still the diehards blaming the player execution, o-line for lack of a running game or the D for allowing more than seven points.

Or the fact that things simply haven't gelled yet.

I still see this offense as a work in progress and one that no one planned for in the preseason. I still believe that Arians and Tomlin were planning for a run-oriented offense but because of the injuries that wasn't going to happen . Combine that with the emergence of Brown, Sanders and others as pass-catchers (more than just Wallace) and they decided to switch to a pass-first offense in the early part of the season.

Changing boats in mid stream is always difficult (see Denver) but it's their best option and I believe that it will payoff big time once the wrinkles get ironed out.

As I wrote in another post, we actually have TOO MUCH talent right now and we simply haven't quite figured out how to use all of it. We suddenly went from having maybe three or four really good skill players to having as many as ten and I can see that Arians is trying but it's actually more difficult to organize that much talent than one might think.

I don't believe that Arians or Tomlin realized just how many good players they had back in training camp and that neither of them realized just how good a passing team we're capable of being.
The reason for that was because they were both geared up for "Steeler Football" and naturally focused on the running game.
But the injuries to the O-line forced them to abandon a traditional running game and in the process they discovered that they had a wealth of talent and capability as a passing team.

The problem is that this all happened as the season progressed and it's hard to change an entire philosophy in the middle of a season. But they ARE trying and I think that when they figure it out, it's going to be awesome but we're not quite there yet. It's very similar to Fox having to rewrite the playbook on the fly for Tebow. But Fox is proving that it IS possible to do that but remember that he's dealing with far less talent than we have, so naturally it will take us a bit longer to get things sorted out.

I think that when they DO sort it out, our offense will be one of the best (if not THE best) in the league.

So if I sound like an apologist, that's fine with me because once this thing gets figured out, there won't be anything to apologize for.

Rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 10:23 AM
Or the fact that things simply haven't gelled yet.

I still see this offense as a work in progress and one that no one planned for in the preseason. I still believe that Arians and Tomlin were planning for a run-oriented offense but because of the injuries that wasn't going to happen . Combine that with the emergence of Brown, Sanders and others as pass-catchers (more than just Wallace) and they decided to switch to a pass-first offense in the early part of the season.

Changing boats in mid stream is always difficult (see Denver) but it's their best option and I believe that it will payoff big time once the wrinkles get ironed out.

As I wrote in another post, we actually have TOO MUCH talent right now and we simply haven't quite figured out how to use all of it. We suddenly went from having maybe three or four really good skill players to having as many as ten and I can see that Arians is trying but it's actually more difficult to organize that much talent than one might think.

I don't believe that Arians or Tomlin realized just how many good players they had back in training camp and that neither of them realized just how good a passing team we're capable of being.
The reason for that was because they were both geared up for "Steeler Football" and naturally focused on the running game.
But the injuries to the O-line forced them to abandon a traditional running game and in the process they discovered that they had a wealth of talent and capability as a passing team.

The problem is that this all happened as the season progressed and it's hard to change an entire philosophy in the middle of a season. But they ARE trying and I think that when they figure it out, it's going to be awesome but we're not quite there yet. It's very similar to Fox having to rewrite the playbook on the fly for Tebow. But Fox is proving that it IS possible to do that but remember that he's dealing with far less talent than we have, so naturally it will take us a bit longer to get things sorted out.

I think that when they DO sort it out, our offense will be one of the best (if not THE best) in the league.

So if I sound like an apologist, that's fine with me because once this thing gets figured out, there won't be anything to apologize for.

Yeah, that aint gonna happen as long as Bruce Airhead is calling the shots.


Rockon

FanSince72
11-30-2011, 10:32 AM
Yeah, that aint gonna happen as long as Bruce Airhead is calling the shots.


Rockon

I disagree.

During this reconstruction we've won six of our last seven games and we're tied for first place in the division.

Not bad for someone who is rebuilding an entire offense on the fly.

What he's doing now is like fixing a leaky roof while it's raining; it doesn't have to be pretty, it just has to stop the leak and that's all that matters. Later, when things get sorted out, he can concentrate on the finish work., but for now as long as the game ends with a "W" for us, that's all that matters.

MACH1
11-30-2011, 10:44 AM
Or the fact that things simply haven't gelled yet.

I still see this offense as a work in progress and one that no one planned for in the preseason. I still believe that Arians and Tomlin were planning for a run-oriented offense but because of the injuries that wasn't going to happen . Combine that with the emergence of Brown, Sanders and others as pass-catchers (more than just Wallace) and they decided to switch to a pass-first offense in the early part of the season.

Changing boats in mid stream is always difficult (see Denver) but it's their best option and I believe that it will payoff big time once the wrinkles get ironed out.

As I wrote in another post, we actually have TOO MUCH talent right now and we simply haven't quite figured out how to use all of it. We suddenly went from having maybe three or four really good skill players to having as many as ten and I can see that Arians is trying but it's actually more difficult to organize that much talent than one might think.

I don't believe that Arians or Tomlin realized just how many good players they had back in training camp and that neither of them realized just how good a passing team we're capable of being.
The reason for that was because they were both geared up for "Steeler Football" and naturally focused on the running game.
But the injuries to the O-line forced them to abandon a traditional running game and in the process they discovered that they had a wealth of talent and capability as a passing team.

The problem is that this all happened as the season progressed and it's hard to change an entire philosophy in the middle of a season. But they ARE trying and I think that when they figure it out, it's going to be awesome but we're not quite there yet. It's very similar to Fox having to rewrite the playbook on the fly for Tebow. But Fox is proving that it IS possible to do that but remember that he's dealing with far less talent than we have, so naturally it will take us a bit longer to get things sorted out.

I think that when they DO sort it out, our offense will be one of the best (if not THE best) in the league.

So if I sound like an apologist, that's fine with me because once this thing gets figured out, there won't be anything to apologize for.

3/4 of they way through the season, if they haven't "gelled" yet they ain't going to! And if the coaching staff can't figure out how to use the talent we have maybe they should be replaced by someone who can. As far as changing philosophies in mid steam you know as well as I do that Arians doesn't change for anyone or any natural disaster. Arians does the same thing over and over expecting different results.

3rd and 1 obvious passing down.
let the excuses fly deep down the field.

Rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 11:16 AM
I disagree.

During this reconstruction we've won six of our last seven games and we're tied for first place in the division.

Not bad for someone who is rebuilding an entire offense on the fly.

What he's doing now is like fixing a leaky roof while it's raining; it doesn't have to be pretty, it just has to stop the leak and that's all that matters. Later, when things get sorted out, he can concentrate on the finish work., but for now as long as the game ends with a "W" for us, that's all that matters.

Hopefully he won't be around to "finish his work". Hopefully he is fired, retires, quits or gets abducted. Preferably the latter. His job thus far has not been very impressive. But, I've come to realize that those who don't see BA as a problem, will never see it, because they simply don't want to. They want to believe that all is bliss in Steelerland.

Yeah, I know we've won 2 and been to 3 SBs in the last 7 years(in spite of Airhead), and believe me I appreciate that greatly. However, last I checked, they haven't won 7 out of the last 7 SBs (nor do I expect them to). Until they do that, there is always room for improvement. In this case, one way to improve would come from addition by subtraction in the form of Bruce Arians out the door.

Until that time, "Project Round Hole, Square Peg" will continue to be in effect.


Rockon

FanSince72
11-30-2011, 11:20 AM
3/4 of they way through the season, if they haven't "gelled" yet they ain't going to! And if the coaching staff can't figure out how to use the talent we have maybe they should be replaced by someone who can. As far as changing philosophies in mid steam you know as well as I do that Arians doesn't change for anyone or any natural disaster. Arians does the same thing over and over expecting different results.

3rd and 1 obvious passing down.
let the excuses fly deep down the field.

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion as am I.

But you have to admit that changing from a running team to a passing team in mid-season is like trying to change a tire while the car is moving - it's not easy and it's not something that is going to produce any sort of polished result right away.

It's not what they wanted to do, it's what they had to do and I can see flashes now and then of just how good this can be but it's something that takes time and it might not even happen this season. I can't speak for anyone else but as far as I'm concerned, I like the direction we're moving in and I'm willing to wait for it to work because I know that when it does it will be something that will work for many seasons to come.

It's unfortunate that it had to happen this way, but I'm glad it's happening nonetheless.

Rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 11:25 AM
Hey, you're entitled to your opinion as am I.

But you have to admit that changing from a running team to a passing team in mid-season is like trying to change a tire while the car is moving - it's not easy and it's not something that is going to produce any sort of polished result right away.

It's not what they wanted to do, it's what they had to do and I can see flashes now and then of just how good this can be but it's something that takes time and it might not even happen this season. I can't speak for anyone else but as far as I'm concerned, I like the direction we're moving in and I'm willing to wait for it to work because I know that when it does it will be something that will work for many seasons to come.

It's unfortunate that it had to happen this way, but I'm glad it's happening nonetheless.

I get that you're a glass half-full kinda guy. And, that's cool.

Question is, what's in the glass?

Rockon

FanSince72
11-30-2011, 11:48 AM
I get that you're a glass half-full kinda guy. And, that's cool.

Question is, what's in the glass?

Rockon

What's in the glass may not be what we want -- but it's what we have and it's either drink it or go thirsty.

Look, I'm not suggesting that Arians is some kind of genius or that he's the best thing for this team, but all things considered it could be A LOT worse right now and I think that under the circumstances he's doing a pretty good job. At least he's willing to make changes instead of insisting that we keep trying to prove that we are a running team when everyone down to the beer vendors knows that's not true.

I'd rather see him trying to do something instead of just giving up, blaming it all on injuries and saying that there's always next year.

Rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 12:10 PM
What's in the glass may not be what we want -- but it's what we have and it's either drink it or go thirsty.

Look, I'm not suggesting that Arians is some kind of genius or that he's the best thing for this team, but all things considered it could be A LOT worse right now and I think that under the circumstances he's doing a pretty good job. At least he's willing to make changes instead of insisting that we keep trying to prove that we are a running team when everyone down to the beer vendors knows that's not true.

I'd rather see him trying to do something instead of just giving up, blaming it all on injuries and saying that there's always next year.

Personally, I'd rather he just go away. Far. Far. Away. :wave:


Rockon

Sixburgher
11-30-2011, 12:27 PM
Hey, you're entitled to your opinion as am I.

No, around here, you're either of the very popular opinion of Arians being a complete moron and the worst offensive coordinator in the league, or you're branded an "apologist" or one of his "relatives". There is no room for a rational middle ground here.

Rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 12:48 PM
No, around here, you're either of the very popular opinion of Arians being a complete moron and the worst offensive coordinator in the league, or you're branded an "apologist" or one of his "relatives". There is no room for a rational middle ground here.


Well, to be fair. There is nothing rational about Arians, his philosophies or the way he runs this offense.

And the only thing that's middle ground, is the production of the offense that operates under his watch.

And, come on, really, anybody that's an apologist for this guy has got to be related to him. Tell Uncle Brucey I said Happy Holidays, and may Rudolph pi$$ in his egg nog..... :chuckle:


Rockon

Sixburgher
11-30-2011, 12:51 PM
And, come on, really, anybody that's an apologist for this guy has got to be related to him. Tell Uncle Brucey I said Happy Holidays, and may Rudolph pi$$ in his egg nog..... :chuckle:


Rockon

Ah, the guy who declared Cam Cameron to be "ten times better than Arians" as an offensive coordinator. Maybe next season we can steal Cam Cameron away from the Ravens so he can run Mendenhall five times while Ben passes 50+ times against Seattle and lose! That's the ticket! :tt03:

Fire Arians
11-30-2011, 12:53 PM
Ah, the guy who declared Cam Cameron to be "ten times better than Arians" as an offensive coordinator. Maybe next season we can steal Cam Cameron away from the Ravens so he can run Mendenhall five times while Ben passes 50+ times against Seattle and lose! That's the ticket! :tt03:

isn't that what we're doing anyway? :chuckle:

Sixburgher
11-30-2011, 12:55 PM
isn't that what we're doing anyway? :chuckle:

28 rushes, 31 passes against the Chiefs. Almost a 50/50 split. But don't let that spoil all the "pass happy" hyperbole.

Fire Arians
11-30-2011, 01:02 PM
28 rushes, 31 passes against the Chiefs. Almost a 50/50 split. But don't let that spoil all the "pass happy" hyperbole.

i know i was halfway joking. i've actually admitted a few times that arians has actually done a better job this year than in the past. my main beef with him is not ditching the david johnson experiment and using a real fullback.

and of course the screen to ward. use wallace or brown for that play, hines can't make anyone miss anymore

FanSince72
11-30-2011, 01:51 PM
WOW, this is a tough crowd!

Tell you what...

If we win the Super Bowl next February and the final score is something like, 12-9, I'll crack open the champagne and celebrate Number 7 and you guys can piss and moan all week about how we didn't win by 30 points and that Arians is an idiot.

I'll even agree with you if it'll make you feel better. :applaudit:

Deal?

Rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 02:14 PM
Ah, the guy who declared Cam Cameron to be "ten times better than Arians" as an offensive coordinator. Maybe next season we can steal Cam Cameron away from the Ravens so he can run Mendenhall five times while Ben passes 50+ times against Seattle and lose! That's the ticket! :tt03:

Not a bad memory, there. Touche'. I still think Cameron is better that Bruce. He's not who I wold hire, but I think he's better than BA. Just look at how he uses Ray Rice out of the backfield, TEs in the seams, etc. Bruce is working with way better tools. But to be fair some of the things he's been doing over there this season, has me scratching my head. But don't act like BA hasn't had Ben throw the ball 50+ in a game. And we can never forget the debacle in the Cleveland rain/snowtorm, where he was going 5 wide like his life depended on it, depsite Rashard ripping off chunks his first couple of carries. If you wanna believe BA is good money, you're entitled to that. I, am one of the many on this board that sees through the matrix.


Rockon

Rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 02:23 PM
WOW, this is a tough crowd!

Tell you what...

If we win the Super Bowl next February and the final score is something like, 12-9, I'll crack open the champagne and celebrate Number 7 and you guys can piss and moan all week about how we didn't win by 30 points and that Arians is an idiot.

I'll even agree with you if it'll make you feel better. :applaudit:

Deal?

If that happens, you won't hear me pissing and moaning about the end result.

I will however definitely point out that the SB was won IN SPITE of BA, yet again.

And that now would be the perfect time to retire.

And that the minute he is sent on his merry little way, the offense would improve immediately.

And, you are certainly right in that, I would absolutely scream from the highest mountain......."BRUCE ARIANS IS AN IDIOT!!!"

All while waving my towel and celebrating no.7!! :tt03: WORLD CHAMPS BABY!!!


We can only hope it plays out that way!




Rockon

MACH1
11-30-2011, 03:06 PM
Hey, you're entitled to your opinion as am I.

But you have to admit that changing from a running team to a passing team in mid-season is like trying to change a tire while the car is moving - it's not easy and it's not something that is going to produce any sort of polished result right away.

It's not what they wanted to do, it's what they had to do and I can see flashes now and then of just how good this can be but it's something that takes time and it might not even happen this season. I can't speak for anyone else but as far as I'm concerned, I like the direction we're moving in and I'm willing to wait for it to work because I know that when it does it will be something that will work for many seasons to come.

It's unfortunate that it had to happen this way, but I'm glad it's happening nonetheless.

Problem with that is Arians doesn't like to run the ball. Never has, never will. As long as he's the oc thats how it's going to be. Wasn't he threatened with his job if he didn't start trying to run more at one point?

ricardisimo
11-30-2011, 03:29 PM
i know i was halfway joking. i've actually admitted a few times that arians has actually done a better job this year than in the past. my main beef with him is not ditching the david johnson experiment and using a real fullback.

and of course the screen to ward. use wallace or brown for that play, hines can't make anyone miss anymore
And the empty backfield sets... in the first quarter... when we're up by 14. Gee, I wonder what we're going to do?

Or running off right tackle... again. How about some play-action now and again, or running wide left, or off left guard? Just a handful of times per game, please? How can someone who's main goal as a playcaller is (so obviously) unpredictability, be so predictable? That takes genius. :doh:

StainlessStill
11-30-2011, 03:47 PM
20 point win, haha. Being a Steelers fan since birth, I can PROBABLY count the number of "20 point wins" on one hand, MAYBE. We are still in the process of transformation to a passing frenzied league, and with that comes points. It's STILL going to take time from our usual personal of still trying to run the ball efficiently and have a more balanced attack. We have too many play makers and I believe we're STILL trying to find the forumula at scoring points and most of the time, we limit ourselves.

It'll come, but look around the league. Cam Newton is putting up 30 points a game and STILL losing. What's "points" when it equals into a loss. GIVE ME THE "W" over points anyday, all day!

ricardisimo
11-30-2011, 04:21 PM
20 point win, haha. Being a Steelers fan since birth, I can PROBABLY count the number of "20 point wins" on one hand, MAYBE. We are still in the process of transformation to a passing frenzied league, and with that comes points. It's STILL going to take time from our usual personal of still trying to run the ball efficiently and have a more balanced attack. We have too many play makers and I believe we're STILL trying to find the forumula at scoring points and most of the time, we limit ourselves.

It'll come, but look around the league. Cam Newton is putting up 30 points a game and STILL losing. What's "points" when it equals into a loss. GIVE ME THE "W" over points anyday, all day!
Yes, but our losses have come almost exclusively because the offense can't produce points. Even the opening week fiasco to the Rats, you can say the defense is old and slow and should have stopped them, but seven turnovers is hard for even the greatest defense on the planet to overcome.

We are having problems, specifically, in the red zone, which is what happens when you prioritize the long ball over all else. If we don't score from the 40, we don't score. That sucks.

It is very telling that we suddenly become an efficient offense in the no-huddle, when Bruce is no longer calling the plays. One doesn't really need to reflect on that for too long to come to a conclusion.

FanSince72
11-30-2011, 04:33 PM
Problem with that is Arians doesn't like to run the ball. Never has, never will. As long as he's the oc thats how it's going to be. Wasn't he threatened with his job if he didn't start trying to run more at one point?

See, that's why I like him because I don't think we should be running the ball either.

We're built to be a passing team and we have the QB that's tailor made for the job so why on Earth would we want to run the ball?

And yes, I know all about "Steeler Football" and blah, blah, blah and I grew up with this team through the 70's and I get the whole running thing. But right now, we make a far better passing team than a running team and I think that's where we need to go.

Maybe Arians is the guy for that or maybe he isn't but no matter who is calling the plays, they need to be passing plays either way.

ricardisimo
11-30-2011, 04:52 PM
I don't think anyone is saying "Don't pass the ball", or "Ben can't pass". That's not the point. The point is, as Mach1 says regularly: "3rd and short... obvious passing down". That sort of logic will lose you games you should be winning, and it has.

steelfury02
11-30-2011, 05:33 PM
Alright,

Just to prove how idiotic Arians is I'll provide you all with this little tidbit. And I apologize to any female Steelers fans in advance, BUT:

God bless my wife - she is one helluva woman and very intelligent, picks up on things very quickly, etc, etc - but for some reason (most likely because she is doing other things while watching the Steelers game) she cannot grasp penalties or offensive formations/plays - the smaller things you have to pay attention to on a regular basis to get a general understanding of

HOWEVER

On a regular basis, when the Steelers offense finds itself on third down and short my wife asks me - "Hunny, why aren't they running it when we need a couple yards?" or "Hunny, I know sometimes it can be good to pass on third and short to mix it up, but aren't you tellin the other team you are def passing by not having a running back there - Ben is going to get creamed"

or

"Hunny, why are they trying to throw it so far down the field when we needed a small chunk for a first down . . .EVEN I COULD HAVE CALLED A BETTER PLAY AND I KNOW SQUAT ABOUT FOOTBALL"

Nuff' said . . .Bruce is an idiot. Please, please, please, no more brain childs from Cleveland.

FanSince72
11-30-2011, 08:19 PM
Alright,

Just to prove how idiotic Arians is I'll provide you all with this little tidbit. And I apologize to any female Steelers fans in advance, BUT:

God bless my wife - she is one helluva woman and very intelligent, picks up on things very quickly, etc, etc - but for some reason (most likely because she is doing other things while watching the Steelers game) she cannot grasp penalties or offensive formations/plays - the smaller things you have to pay attention to on a regular basis to get a general understanding of

HOWEVER

On a regular basis, when the Steelers offense finds itself on third down and short my wife asks me - "Hunny, why aren't they running it when we need a couple yards?" or "Hunny, I know sometimes it can be good to pass on third and short to mix it up, but aren't you tellin the other team you are def passing by not having a running back there - Ben is going to get creamed"

or

"Hunny, why are they trying to throw it so far down the field when we needed a small chunk for a first down . . .EVEN I COULD HAVE CALLED A BETTER PLAY AND I KNOW SQUAT ABOUT FOOTBALL"

Nuff' said . . .Bruce is an idiot. Please, please, please, no more brain childs from Cleveland.

But still there's that damned 8 and 3 / tied for first place thing that keeps popping up.

I mean, you'd think that a team with such stupid people running things would be doing a lot worse...

I dunno... I just can't explain it.

tony hipchest
12-01-2011, 12:05 AM
Or the fact that things simply haven't gelled yet.

I still see this offense as a work in progress and one that no one planned for in the preseason. I still believe that Arians and Tomlin were planning for a run-oriented offense but because of the injuries that wasn't going to happen . Combine that with the emergence of Brown, Sanders and others as pass-catchers (more than just Wallace) and they decided to switch to a pass-first offense in the early part of the season.

Changing boats in mid stream is always difficult (see Denver) but it's their best option and I believe that it will payoff big time once the wrinkles get ironed out.

As I wrote in another post, we actually have TOO MUCH talent right now and we simply haven't quite figured out how to use all of it. We suddenly went from having maybe three or four really good skill players to having as many as ten and I can see that Arians is trying but it's actually more difficult to organize that much talent than one might think.

I don't believe that Arians or Tomlin realized just how many good players they had back in training camp and that neither of them realized just how good a passing team we're capable of being.
The reason for that was because they were both geared up for "Steeler Football" and naturally focused on the running game.
But the injuries to the O-line forced them to abandon a traditional running game and in the process they discovered that they had a wealth of talent and capability as a passing team.

The problem is that this all happened as the season progressed and it's hard to change an entire philosophy in the middle of a season. But they ARE trying and I think that when they figure it out, it's going to be awesome but we're not quite there yet. It's very similar to Fox having to rewrite the playbook on the fly for Tebow. But Fox is proving that it IS possible to do that but remember that he's dealing with far less talent than we have, so naturally it will take us a bit longer to get things sorted out.

I think that when they DO sort it out, our offense will be one of the best (if not THE best) in the league.

So if I sound like an apologist, that's fine with me because once this thing gets figured out, there won't be anything to apologize for.

you have nothing to apologize for, but i cant agree with this at all. there was no changing in midstream. there is no sudden adaption or hurdle the steelers were forced to overcome.

the offense we see today has been in production for the last 5 years. granted it has been a slow transformation (which is yet another knock on the coaches). we have been passing more than running for several years now.

we dumped the fullback position and have been trying to find the next frank wycheck or mike alstott off the streets. the writing was on the wall as soon as we started reaching for players like summers or c. davis. we have been drafting receivers left and right.

this shift was so obvious in the failed 09 season that the owner of the team had to step in and demand that the coaches run the ball more effectively.

this is absolutely not something that sprung up in this offseason.

when arians took over he immediately released his manifesto that he wanted to be like the patriots offense was then. spread em out, multiple formations from 5 wide to multiple (3) TE sets, and no lead blocker.


this is exactly what we have today. the only difference is that when the patriots (or even other high powered multi dimensional offenses) see the opportunity to shelf the arial attack and run for 200+ yds on a weaker opponent, they do it early, bring the defenders up, and finally unleash the passing attack to put the game away.

arians is still operating in bizzaro opposite world.

he isnt ahead of the curve and he really isnt innovative. he is always one step behind, playing follow the (offensively staticical passing) leader and "catch up"


adding our quick smurf wr's is no accident or injury related solution. the addition of wes saunders to the mix was a calculated, low risk high reward, move to counter the packers finley, saints graham, and patriots hernandez.


the biggest difference between ben and other great qb's is ben is not manning or marino (who need no coaches).

ben doesnt have a HC like sean payton or mike mccarthy calling his plays, or a landry like belichick.

ben isnt working with the likes of bill walsh, g. seifert, mike holmgren etc.

yet he is still one of the best and most successful in the business, which is a testament to HIM, not tomlin or arians (or cowher and wiz).

MasterOfPuppets
12-01-2011, 12:32 AM
i just wanna know what happened to the game plan that beat the patriots ? the high percentage passes that kept the chains moving ....
arians shows zero ability or willingness , to make game time/half time adjustments to the passing game. doesn't matter if ben gets sacked 5 times and hurried 15 others in the first half on a 7 step drop empty backfield , arians will keep calling the same shit instead of trying shorter routes with 3 step drops.

tony hipchest
12-01-2011, 02:21 AM
whats funny is big ben is seldom allowed to use the no huddle offense that he so loves, yet tyler palko, in his 1st career start on a new team with a new system, was allowed to run it vs one of the most complex defenses this generation has seen, right off the bat.

:hunch:

ricardisimo
12-01-2011, 02:23 AM
whats funny is big ben is seldom allowed to use the no huddle offense that he so loves, yet tyler palko, in his 1st career start on a new team with a new system, was allowed to run it vs one of the most complex defenses this generation has seen, right off the bat.

:hunch:
And he came close to winning.

tony hipchest
12-01-2011, 02:37 AM
And he came close to winning.i guess we should be glad it was lewis back there for the game clinching INT and not joe burnette.

(had we lost, all arians' cousins woulda blamed the defense for allowing 16 points and given arians yet ANOTHER free pass.)

i thought benching hines was supposed to better the team?

DanRooney
12-01-2011, 02:41 AM
Right. Let's demote Brown to #4 and Wallace to #5. They can't catch. I mean they don't know their playbooks. Hines should be #1 with Cotchery at #2. We might need to bring in Randle El to fill the void at 3. More leadership guys. I smell championship :applaudit:

Sixburgher
12-01-2011, 02:52 AM
whats funny is big ben is seldom allowed to use the no huddle offense that he so loves, yet tyler palko, in his 1st career start on a new team with a new system, was allowed to run it vs one of the most complex defenses this generation has seen, right off the bat.

:hunch:

Kind of difficult to run no huddle in a stadium as notoriously loud as Arrowhead when you're the visiting team. As for the Chiefs, they were a 4-6 team that was making a last ditch effort of salvaging their playoff life, which is for all intents and purposes over at this point. Why not throw caution to the wind?

tony hipchest
12-01-2011, 02:53 AM
Right. Let's demote Brown to #4 and Wallace to #5. They can't catch. I mean they don't know their playbooks. Hines should be #1 with Cotchery at #2. We might need to bring in Randle El to fill the void at 3. More leadership guys. I smell championship :applaudit:svwGRJA28lY

more irrelevant, completely off topic, BS drug into a non related thread.

awww... corky clapps his hands. :thumbsup:

steelfury02
12-01-2011, 09:50 AM
I've been first in line to recognize our 8-3 record while complaining about the offense's inconsistencies - I've argued against Arians AND believe that the youth and inexperience of our receivers has been a contributing factor.

Overall, it is just frustrating to see this team walk a fine line between being
"12-4 and 9-7" as Tomlin has put it- for once, I'd like the offense to step up and live up to their potential, both in play calling and execution. If they did, they would be a well-oiled machine, not a well-oiled house salad - wilting their way to a close game that should have never had been close

LayingTheWoodley56
12-01-2011, 11:43 AM
That had to be the worst Steeler's win I've ever witnessed. I know 'a win is a win' and I (along with everyone in SteelersNation) will absolutely take it, but it almost feels like we just got beat. It's a weird feeling. I would call it bitter sweet, but I'm not feeling much sweetness right now. Just bitter.

I think people are overreacting a little bit to this "win." Yes, we did not play well, and we should have certainly won by more than 13-9. But it's not like we were completely unable to move the ball. Ben was 21-31 passing, we lost a sure TD when Mewelde fumbled, we had a couple of decent drives cut short by interception/sloppiness. Our defense played very well, without Troy and Woodley, albeit against an abysmal offense. We definitely should have won this game by a solid 15-20 points, but for chrissakes after the wins over Jacksonville and Indy this might not even be our most shameful near-loss this season! Let's see what we can do this week, I have a hunch we're due for a big, dominating performance.

Did anyone really believe that Palko was about to pull out a TD on that last drive?

Fire Arians
12-01-2011, 11:50 AM
I think people are overreacting a little bit to this "win." Yes, we did not play well, and we should have certainly won by more than 13-9. But it's not like we were completely unable to move the ball. Ben was 21-31 passing, we lost a sure TD when Mewelde fumbled, we had a couple of decent drives cut short by interception/sloppiness. Our defense played very well, without Troy and Woodley, albeit against an abysmal offense. We definitely should have won this game by a solid 15-20 points, but for chrissakes after the wins over Jacksonville and Indy this might not even be our most shameful near-loss this season! Let's see what we can do this week, I have a hunch we're due for a big, dominating performance.

Did anyone really believe that Palko was about to pull out a TD on that last drive?

i sorta had a feeling palko would win it for us in the end, he's horrible, and he did.

usually there is a very small difference between being 9-7 and 12-4. every team (except green bay this year it seems) always has a few ugly wins under their belts, especially after bye weeks. but hey i'd rather win ugly than lose pretty any day.

the bengals didnt look so great last week either, they needed 4th quarter heroics to beat the browns

kirklandrules
12-01-2011, 12:58 PM
Did anyone really believe that Palko was about to pull out a TD on that last drive?

The Steelers let Flacco do it twice, and I think he sucks.

The reality is, coming off a bye, it was a road game, against a team that has a very fast defense and does get paid to win games, Woodley out, Troy out early, changes on the line, etc ... I'm happy for a win in that situation regardless of style points.

LayingTheWoodley56
12-01-2011, 01:34 PM
The Steelers let Flacco do it twice, and I think he sucks.

The reality is, coming off a bye, it was a road game, against a team that has a very fast defense and does get paid to win games, Woodley out, Troy out early, changes on the line, etc ... I'm happy for a win in that situation regardless of style points.

We let Flacco do it twice yes, and he does suck in our eyes yes but he is still a serviceable, legitimate NFL quarterback who is in his fourth year as a starter. Palko is a marginal backup at best, I was pretty sure there was no way he was about to pull a miraculous TD drive on us to win that game. Well not pretty sure, I was just about positive.

steelbad@50
12-02-2011, 03:17 PM
Kind of difficult to run no huddle in a stadium as notoriously loud as Arrowhead when you're the visiting team. As for the Chiefs, they were a 4-6 team that was making a last ditch effort of salvaging their playoff life, which is for all intents and purposes over at this point. Why not throw caution to the wind?

Good post as I was hoping someone would view it that way . This Sunday is not going to be any different i feel. GO STEELERS:thumbsup::tt04::tt:

MACH1
12-02-2011, 04:52 PM
http://5goldenrings.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/no-huddle.jpg

FanSince72
12-02-2011, 11:06 PM
I've been first in line to recognize our 8-3 record while complaining about the offense's inconsistencies - I've argued against Arians AND believe that the youth and inexperience of our receivers has been a contributing factor....

Youth and inexperience along with trying to establish a playing style that has been foreign to this organization.

I recognize that this "pass-first" thing has been a work in progress for a while (beyond this season) but I also recognize that whatever future plans were being developed got thrown into overdrive this year because of our inability to consistently run the ball. Part of the reason for that has been injuries, part is age and part is that we don't have any true "power backs". But whatever the reason, it forced us to have to completely flip our philosophy from mostly run to mostly pass far sooner and far more completely than I suspect anyone on the coaching staff expected or wanted, but they were left with little alternative.

It's not easy changing gears like that and it takes time to get everyone on the same page. If you watch the way things unfold, it isn't about bad calls so much as it's about bad plays, specifically in the way of timing. Many (if not most) of the bad plays are the result of minor errors; a receiver turning the wrong way, or breaking off or continuing a route when they shouldn't and so on. It's not so much the plays as it is the execution.

Another aspect is what I guess I'd call "on the job training" in the form of trying out different plays in real-time situations. It's easy to make just about anything work in practice but the only true test is to see how it works in a real game and I think a lot of plays that have either gone nowhere or produced losses or worse were the result of that experimentation. Don't forget, changing things around like this is something that normally takes an entire training camp and pre-season and we're trying to do it in the middle of a regular season so there are bound to be mistakes, but we don't have the luxury of testing things out before we try them in games and sometimes that costs us. I don't know about you but I see an offense that is capable of being a powerhouse once all these little things get ironed out. Each week I see more and more "near successes" and it's just a matter of time before things start to click.

It would have been easy to say that the O-line is beat up and the running game is gone so let's just play out the string and get all this new stuff ready for next year but they decided not to do that and it can't be easy. Arians may not be a genius, but I give him credit for trying new things and trying them in real time rather than just throwing in the towel and blaming a bad season on injuries and other things.

I'd like us to be in a better position too but all things considered we could be in far worse shape and don't forget that it wasn't Arians' offense who let the Ravens drive 92 yards to win a game they shouldn't have -- that was LeBeau's defense that did that.

Wallace108
12-03-2011, 02:36 AM
I won't get greedy with wanting a 20-point win. I'd just like to see the offense win a game for us. Six times this season, the offense has had the ball with a 7-point or fewer lead late in the fourth quarter. And all 6 times the offense has failed to score or run out the clock. All 6 times, the offense gave the ball back to the other team with a chance to win the game (or tie in Cincy's case) on their final drive. Our defense saved 5 of those 6 games.

tony hipchest
12-04-2011, 12:32 AM
I won't get greedy with wanting a 20-point win. I'd just like to see the offense win a game for us. Six times this season, the offense has had the ball with a 7-point or fewer lead late in the fourth quarter. And all 6 times the offense has failed to score or run out the clock. All 6 times, the offense gave the ball back to the other team with a chance to win the game (or tie in Cincy's case) on their final drive. Our defense saved 5 of those 6 games.

hater :chuckle:

Wallace108
12-04-2011, 12:56 AM
hater :chuckle:

Arians drives me to hate AND drink. :sofunny:

I was just looking at the scoring by quarters tonight. Our defense has given up 92 points in the first half of games and 96 in the second half. The defense is consistent regardless of quarter or half. The offense, on the other hand, is much better in the first half, scoring 142 points compared with 91 in the second half. The numbers suggest that if we're losing at halftime, we're going to lose the game. In fact, we've been down at the half four times this season, and we've lost 3 of those games.

There has to be a reason why our offense is a lot worse in the second half (and particularly late in the fourth quarter). I don't think the offensive line plays better in the first half than it does the second. I don't think Ben holds onto the ball longer in the second half. What makes sense to me is that teams are making adjustments at halftime and Arians isn't (or at least not the right adjustments). This is why it's hard for us to win by 20 points, unless we have a 30 point lead at halftime.

MACH1
12-04-2011, 03:21 AM
Arians drives me to hate AND drink. :sofunny:

I was just looking at the scoring by quarters tonight. Our defense has given up 92 points in the first half of games and 96 in the second half. The defense is consistent regardless of quarter or half. The offense, on the other hand, is much better in the first half, scoring 142 points compared with 91 in the second half. The numbers suggest that if we're losing at halftime, we're going to lose the game. In fact, we've been down at the half four times this season, and we've lost 3 of those games.

There has to be a reason why our offense is a lot worse in the second half (and particularly late in the fourth quarter). I don't think the offensive line plays better in the first half than it does the second. I don't think Ben holds onto the ball longer in the second half. What makes sense to me is that teams are making adjustments at halftime and Arians isn't (or at least not the right adjustments). This is why it's hard for us to win by 20 points, unless we have a 30 point lead at halftime.

ding, ding, ding we have a winner!

BengalDestroyer
12-04-2011, 07:49 AM
let us pray. let us pray that Bruce retires this season. Amen.

steelfury02
12-04-2011, 08:13 AM
The lack of second half production from offense will be our undoing. Yes, the Dick Lebeau defense gave up the 92 yard drive - but again, I ask - why are we constantly putting them in that situation? Answer - because our red zone capabilities are shite.

Arians supporters keep blaming our defense for giving up the 92 yard drive but please, can you all just finally recognize that our defense has bailed us out enough times and at some point - the offense needs to carry this team, which, until this point, has NOT.

DO YOUR JOB OFFENSE