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TRH
12-09-2011, 07:57 AM
jumping all over the Harrison hit to McCoy.

In a game where Ben's injury was huge news and coming back in the game like a gladiator, a huge 79 yd pass play, a key interception, an almost, could-have been win from a big underdog, and more.....what am i seeing beat into the ground on news outlets this morning?? For Harrison to be fined by the league.

Big surprise.

steelfury02
12-09-2011, 08:03 AM
I know, I know . . .

Whodis
12-09-2011, 08:09 AM
The NFL network cronies were calling for a suspension. When Vick runs out of the backfield they rock him every time. Since Harrison is involved they are just pilling on.

TRH
12-09-2011, 08:23 AM
I feel bad for James........i'm going to predict this one at 75K this time. It wouldn't surprise me if the league even went one higher than that.
Whats your guesses?

TRH
12-09-2011, 08:30 AM
actually, after looking at this further, and revisiting James' 75K fine last year that came from the Browns game.......i change my prediction. This one is going to come in at a minimum of a 100K fine...especially w/all the hoopla and media attention (propaganda) going on this morning.

Whodis
12-09-2011, 08:40 AM
The two bitches on ESPN radio are calling for a suspension

FanSince72
12-09-2011, 09:21 AM
You know, if McCoy left the game on a stretcher I could understand the outcry.

But McCoy was back after only one play and THAT was because of a dislocated finger -- not the hit by Harrison.

Not only that, but a few plays after that hit, McCoy and Harrison are seen exchanging some words with each other and McCoy gives him a friendly tap on the helmet.

The way I see it is that if McCoy is OK with it, then everyone else should be too and that should be the end of it.

jjpro11
12-09-2011, 09:24 AM
McCoy was fair game running.. nobody seems to want to mention that other than surprisingly, PFT. it's not like McCoy was just sitting back in the pocket and Harrison came in and took an open shot at his head.

4xSBChamps
12-09-2011, 09:29 AM
jumping all over the Harrison hit to McCoy.

was watching Pens @ Phailures (don't have the NFL-N)... does anybody have a link to the video of this hit?

thanks-in-advance!

TRH
12-09-2011, 09:31 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfFW-Yezv0k

RichardCullinanForever
12-09-2011, 09:32 AM
And no one is mentioning the fact that he already had a couple successful rushes, one almost leading to a TD. It would be different if it were Manning or Brady, those guys don't ever run.

sharkweek
12-09-2011, 09:35 AM
I turned the TV / Radio off when I found out the talking heads were somehow more interested in the NBA and MLB (which aren't even playing any games right now) than what Ben did on his injury. If it wasn't for that INT Ben might have had a perfect passer rating performance regardless of an injury that would have ended the season for certain other starting QBs... and instead the big news is Chris Paul and Pooholes and where they may or may not end up playing in the future

McCoy was fair game running.. nobody seems to want to mention that other than surprisingly, PFT. it's not like McCoy was just sitting back in the pocket and Harrison came in and took an open shot at his head.

totally this, seeing it live I was almost in disbelief that it was a flag, Colt looked like he was going all in on the scramble (which he'd already done a couple times prior) and was well outside of the pocket and was just about to cross the line of scrimmage before he decided to slam on the brakes, hop up, and dump off the pass before getting leveled by Harrison

the only way I can see Harrison being at fault is that McCoy was still behind the LOS even though it was very close, but still, I thought I understood it as Harrison claimed: McCoy was outside of the pocket and was running, if players need to be held responsible for knowing at all times where the LOS is the NFL needs to put in some sort of laser grid array to make it obvious, or simply flat out state NO HITTING THE QB and give him flags on his belt

4xSBChamps
12-09-2011, 09:39 AM
what would Ms. Goodell do if Harrison just decided 'I ain't paying no-more fines... I'll just break-legs or rupture spleens, and end careers' ?

jjpro11
12-09-2011, 09:49 AM
i said this multiple times before, but McCoy has piss poor football awareness. he led Massaquoi into danger last season on a throw no intelligent QB would make.. last night he led himself into danger on a reckless run/pass where he couldn't make a decision until it was too late. this isn't college.. the game seems too fast for him. i admire the guy's toughness and the fact that he is a good guy... he's been hit as much as Ben has this year... but he continues to make poor decisions putting himself and his teammates in danger.

4xSBChamps
12-09-2011, 09:55 AM
... McCoy has piss poor football awareness... he led Massaquoi into danger last season on a throw no intelligent QB would make..

last year, amid all the controversy over Harrison's hits, several former NFL QB's (Steve Young, Trent Dilfer, etc.) sat on the set of ESPN, and sheepishly admitted that only 6-8 QB in the entire League knew-enough to NOT lead their WR into harm's-way with passes:
today's field-generals have great QB-ratings yet no football-sense, but the League's making-money, so the meat-grinder continues spewing-out bodies

MDSteel15
12-09-2011, 10:06 AM
Hello! It wasn't that bad of a hit. McCoy was moving and was on his way downwards when their heads collided! If he's suspended, FOLD THE NFL :banging:

BleedPurple
12-09-2011, 11:50 AM
McCoy was fair game running.. nobody seems to want to mention that other than surprisingly, PFT. it's not like McCoy was just sitting back in the pocket and Harrison came in and took an open shot at his head.

Except he didn't run, he threw. Just saying. I don't agree with the softening of football over the past few years by any stretch, but you can't use the he was running argument, because he wasn't past the line of scrimmage and he threw the ball. . .

BleedPurple
12-09-2011, 11:52 AM
what would Ms. Goodell do if Harrison just decided 'I ain't paying no-more fines... I'll just break-legs or rupture spleens, and end careers' ?

Expel him from the league. . .

theplatypus
12-09-2011, 11:57 AM
Expel him from the league. . .


Don't you just love it when they just hang that slider over the middle of the plate

Fire Arians
12-09-2011, 11:58 AM
Hello! It wasn't that bad of a hit. McCoy was moving and was on his way downwards when their heads collided! If he's suspended, FOLD THE NFL :banging:

he's not gonna get suspended but definitely fined at least 50,000

you can not expect him to go high on a qb like that and not get fined. it is what it is

SteeleReign
12-09-2011, 12:58 PM
I actually agreed with Prime Time last night. How is a defender supposed to tackle with his face? Of course, you have to lower your head to make a tackle! This league is starting to make me sick.

They should just put a skirt and flags on the QB...except Ben of course.

plenewken
12-09-2011, 01:02 PM
I think it'll be more than $50K.

jjpro11
12-09-2011, 01:07 PM
Except he didn't run, he threw. Just saying. I don't agree with the softening of football over the past few years by any stretch, but you can't use the he was running argument, because he wasn't past the line of scrimmage and he threw the ball. . .

he tucked the ball away and started running. the gray area is that he was a passer, then a runner, then a passer again. Harrison hit him in the split second he shifted from a runner back to a passer. seems like an easy way for a gutsy QB to draw a flag. take off in the backfield like you are a runner, and as soon as you are about to get hit, throw the ball away and draw a penalty for being defenseless. 9 times out of 10 the QB is going to take a high hit because defenders are always looking to obliterate the QB if the QB is fair game. i don't recall seeing a play like that before where the run, throw, and hit all happened at once. the option play is the closest thing, but i realize those are mostly laterals.

FanSince72
12-09-2011, 01:13 PM
I actually agreed with Prime Time last night. How is a defender supposed to tackle with his face? Of course, you have to lower your head to make a tackle! This league is starting to make me sick.

They should just put a skirt and flags on the QB...except Ben of course.



Agreed.

You know, if the rules as they are today were applied to the game back in the 70's, I'd say that most of our defensive players would have ended up wearing orange jumpsuits - and Lambert would be in Administrative Segregation.

I get the whole concussion thing and I agree that much of what passed for football back in the day would constitute a felony in many jurisdictions today, but come on man... it IS a hitting game after all and no one who plays it has been forced to do so at gunpoint.

And when a QB tucks the ball and starts running, he deserves whatever happens to him - especially if they know that a guy like Harrison is in the vicinity.

tanda10506
12-09-2011, 02:29 PM
I agree with PrimeTime also, McCoy was running the ball and Harrison made a tackle the only way to make it. The Rooneys have to start standing up for their players! McCoy at that time was a running back basically and he got hit like one, that's all.

TRH
12-09-2011, 02:32 PM
I think it'll be more than $50K.

last years hit in Cleveland cost him 75K. Expect 6-figures this time. Almost all media outlets are calling for a 100K fine to go w/his history. And the league almost always buckles to the media pressure it seems as if they almost always 'guess' the fine correctly.
It'll be 100 or more. Unfortunately.

SteeleReign
12-09-2011, 04:00 PM
Agreed.

You know, if the rules as they are today were applied to the game back in the 70's, I'd say that most of our defensive players would have ended up wearing orange jumpsuits - and Lambert would be in Administrative Segregation.

I get the whole concussion thing and I agree that much of what passed for football back in the day would constitute a felony in many jurisdictions today, but come on man... it IS a hitting game after all and no one who plays it has been forced to do so at gunpoint.

And when a QB tucks the ball and starts running, he deserves whatever happens to him - especially if they know that a guy like Harrison is in the vicinity.

Boy...ain't that the truth. I miss the good ol' days of QBs getting tossed on their heads.

Seriously though, there are jobs all over this planet that come with their own inherent risks....underwater welders, pilots, police & firefighters, soldiers, etc. None of which are compensated nearly as well as a professional athlete. The folks that do these jobs recognize the dangers and assume the implied risks upon employment. The NFL is no different, except that the money driven by the star players (typically QBs) would be negatively affected by Manning or Brady sitting out a marquee Monday or Sunday night game.

I agree that a little more emphasis on protecting player's brains is a good thing, but to legislate safety in a violent sport is impossible. Where does this stop?

dsr
12-09-2011, 04:40 PM
Did Harrison try to pull out of the tackle when he saw McCoy wasn't running with the ball? I didn't see it if he did. The latest rules outlaw leading with the helmet, and they outlaw hitting the QB's helmet. Colour it how you may, Harrison did both of those things. They are NOT going to show that to young players as an example of how to make a legal hit.

SteeleReign
12-09-2011, 04:46 PM
Did Harrison try to pull out of the tackle when he saw McCoy wasn't running with the ball? I didn't see it if he did. The latest rules outlaw leading with the helmet, and they outlaw hitting the QB's helmet. Colour it how you may, Harrison did both of those things. They are NOT going to show that to young players as an example of how to make a legal hit.

Huh? James saw McCoy running, lowered his head to make the hit, and then McCoy threw the ball. Are you suggesting that James make some sort of Matrix type of body-bending move at the last second to avoid the hit?

Do the rules apply to running backs? No. Is a QB that has tucked the ball & is running toward the line of scrimmage a RB or QB?

Atlanta Dan
12-09-2011, 04:47 PM
Good analysis from Peter King, who thinks Goodell would like to suspend Harrison but will have a hard time justifying it given what McCoy was doing when hit

I''ve watched the replay maybe 10 times now. Colt McCoy leaves the pocket, runs to his left, tucks the ball under his right arm, and a step or step-and-a-half before making contact with Harrison, pulls the ball out and quickly flips it to Montario Hardesty. Harrison hits McCoy helmet-to-helmet right in McCoy's facemask, and McCoy falls to the turf. Harrison gets flagged for roughing the passer.

Here's where the debate comes in, and why I believe it will be hard for the NFL to suspend Harrison: If McCoy was viewed as a runner -- which he surely would be while having the ball tucked under his arm, with no intention of throwing it -- then once he is out of the pocket, he is treated like a running back, not a quarterback. And a runner can be hit helmet-to-helmet without penalty.(And Atlanta Dan asks why was there even a penalty?):noidea:

But if a quarterback leaves the pocket with the intention still to pass, he loses some protection from the rules of being in the pocket. He can be hit low, and the one-step rule about hitting a quarterback after the release of the ball goes away.

After the game, Harrison told reporters: "From what I understand, once the quarterback leaves the pocket, he's considered a runner.''

Not exactly. If he leaves the pocket and looks to be intending to throw, he can't be hit helmet-to-helmet. If he leaves the pocket and appears to be a runner, he can be hit helmet-to-helmet.

It'll be a close call for discipline czars Ray Anderson and Merton Hanks to decide next week. And Harrison should have aimed lower anyway. But I don't know how they look at the replay and say McCoy isn't a runner when he has the ball tucked under his right arm. And is running.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/12/09/week-14/index.html?sct=nfl_t11_a0

BleedPurple
12-09-2011, 04:51 PM
he tucked the ball away and started running. the gray area is that he was a passer, then a runner, then a passer again. Harrison hit him in the split second he shifted from a runner back to a passer. seems like an easy way for a gutsy QB to draw a flag. take off in the backfield like you are a runner, and as soon as you are about to get hit, throw the ball away and draw a penalty for being defenseless. 9 times out of 10 the QB is going to take a high hit because defenders are always looking to obliterate the QB if the QB is fair game. i don't recall seeing a play like that before where the run, throw, and hit all happened at once. the option play is the closest thing, but i realize those are mostly laterals.

Ehhh sorry, I don't see it. I just watched the play again. The arm comes up, the ball is released, and THEN Harrison drops his helmet to lead into a tackle. It was probably about 1 second in total (throwing motion begins to Harrison leveling him). He had time to pull up. Not a lot, but hey, that's what he's paid for.

SteeleReign
12-09-2011, 04:56 PM
I agree that James could have aimed a little lower. However, if you are a LB tracking the QB, you will keep your head up to see what the QB plans to do. Harrison must have been watching Colt to see if he would throw or run, and at the last second decided Colt was running. James couldn't have made that decision without keeping his eyes up and on the QB. He wouldn't have had time to lower his head to make a "legal" hit at that point.

SteeleReign
12-09-2011, 04:57 PM
Ehhh sorry, I don't see it. I just watched the play again. The arm comes up, the ball is released, and THEN Harrison drops his helmet to lead into a tackle. It was probably about 1 second in total (throwing motion begins to Harrison leveling him). He had time to pull up. Not a lot, but hey, that's what he's paid for.

Thanks Bill Nye. I assume you have tried this yourself using the rules of science?

Steelerfreak58
12-09-2011, 05:10 PM
Defensive hard hitting football is a thing of the past folks. Goodell and his "player safety" rules which only are for certain players are the way its going.

Soon you will see 70 point games with QBs with 700 yard games (most of it earned through FLAGS but they wont mention that) and they will talk about how Great the QBs and Receivers are as if they are doing something special.

Goodell wants TDs and high flying passing offenses. He wants a sanitized game where no one gets hurt and everyone is excited from how many TDs were scored in a game. Tackle football is almost an extinct species.

dsr
12-09-2011, 05:33 PM
Huh? James saw McCoy running, lowered his head to make the hit, and then McCoy threw the ball. Are you suggesting that James make some sort of Matrix type of body-bending move at the last second to avoid the hit?

Do the rules apply to running backs? No. Is a QB that has tucked the ball & is running toward the line of scrimmage a RB or QB?

I can't believe Harrison wasn't looking at McCoy when he was a step+ away from him - which is when Peter King says McCoy threw the ball. If you're not looking at a runner when you're a step+ away, aren't you likely to miss him? And don't tacklers tend to look for the ball anyway, to try and strip it?

They used to have warnings on every helmet saying that the helmet must not be used as a weapon. Are those warnings still there?

SteeleReign
12-09-2011, 05:48 PM
I can't believe Harrison wasn't looking at McCoy when he was a step+ away from him - which is when Peter King says McCoy threw the ball. If you're not looking at a runner when you're a step+ away, aren't you likely to miss him? And don't tacklers tend to look for the ball anyway, to try and strip it?

They used to have warnings on every helmet saying that the helmet must not be used as a weapon. Are those warnings still there?

What? Peter King is suggesting that McCoy had tucked the ball and began running.. a la a RB. Harrison watched McCoy to see if he would pass, decided he was running and, then lowered his head & drilled him. Don't forget that McCoy wasn't standing still - Colt was actually running toward Harrison at a full sprint, thereby shortening Harrison's ability to react that much more.

frunko1
12-09-2011, 05:52 PM
Thanks Bill Nye. I assume you have tried this yourself using the rules of science?

Someone on NFL radio timed it and it was around .23 second.

That's under a 1/4 of second.

SteeleReign
12-09-2011, 05:55 PM
Someone on NFL radio timed it and it was around .23 second.

That's under a 1/4 of second.

Exactly. Impossible.

sharkweek
12-09-2011, 08:03 PM
Good analysis from Peter King, who thinks Goodell would like to suspend Harrison but will have a hard time justifying it given what McCoy was doing when hit

I''ve watched the replay maybe 10 times now. Colt McCoy leaves the pocket, runs to his left, tucks the ball under his right arm, and a step or step-and-a-half before making contact with Harrison, pulls the ball out and quickly flips it to Montario Hardesty. Harrison hits McCoy helmet-to-helmet right in McCoy's facemask, and McCoy falls to the turf. Harrison gets flagged for roughing the passer.

Here's where the debate comes in, and why I believe it will be hard for the NFL to suspend Harrison: If McCoy was viewed as a runner -- which he surely would be while having the ball tucked under his arm, with no intention of throwing it -- then once he is out of the pocket, he is treated like a running back, not a quarterback. And a runner can be hit helmet-to-helmet without penalty.(And Atlanta Dan asks why was there even a penalty?):noidea:

But if a quarterback leaves the pocket with the intention still to pass, he loses some protection from the rules of being in the pocket. He can be hit low, and the one-step rule about hitting a quarterback after the release of the ball goes away.

After the game, Harrison told reporters: "From what I understand, once the quarterback leaves the pocket, he's considered a runner.''

Not exactly. If he leaves the pocket and looks to be intending to throw, he can't be hit helmet-to-helmet. If he leaves the pocket and appears to be a runner, he can be hit helmet-to-helmet.

It'll be a close call for discipline czars Ray Anderson and Merton Hanks to decide next week. And Harrison should have aimed lower anyway. But I don't know how they look at the replay and say McCoy isn't a runner when he has the ball tucked under his right arm. And is running.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/12/09/week-14/index.html?sct=nfl_t11_a0

This is exactly how I felt about the play, my initial reaction to the flag was, "WTF, he was a runner!" Whats worse is that this is exactly what the talking heads have been blabbing about how to play against Tebow, so finally we see that won't be the case when it gets down to it, apparently QBs are strictly off limits.

Ehhh sorry, I don't see it. I just watched the play again. The arm comes up, the ball is released, and THEN Harrison drops his helmet to lead into a tackle. It was probably about 1 second in total (throwing motion begins to Harrison leveling him). He had time to pull up. Not a lot, but hey, that's what he's paid for.

lol yeah, maybe a full second in slow motion you dolt

Someone on NFL radio timed it and it was around .23 second.

That's under a 1/4 of second.

bingo, in real time there's no way he can adjust. It looks malicious in slow motion, but again, that's slow motion, players would never miss tackles or get juked if they could play in slow motion

4xSBChamps
12-09-2011, 09:15 PM
Someone on NFL radio timed it and it was around .23 second.

That's under a 1/4 of second.

I recall reading many years ago that doctors & scientists had determined that between the time the human eye 'sees' something, tell the limbs of the body to react, and the limbs actually make that movement, is .17 or .18-seconds:
if-true, this leaves approx .06-seconds for Harrison to pull-back from the hit

"... fine James Harrison
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/football/Goodellonthephone.jpg
.06 million dollars!!!"

(that's $60,000 for you Baltimoron-trolls)

Ricco Suavez
12-09-2011, 09:33 PM
Ehhh sorry, I don't see it. I just watched the play again. The arm comes up, the ball is released, and THEN Harrison drops his helmet to lead into a tackle. It was probably about 1 second in total (throwing motion begins to Harrison leveling him). He had time to pull up. Not a lot, but hey, that's what he's paid for.

I cannot freaking believe you man. He is going full speed and you expect him to change his angle in less than one second(by your estimation). Take your purple colored glasses off and be objective. I bet if this was Late hit Ray you see it a whole new way.:banging:

QCbeauBlak
12-09-2011, 09:46 PM
It is the replays that are infuriating everyone. No one ever watches these plays in real time. EVER. Everyone on every forum not steelers is suggesting James could have pulled a Neo and dropped his shoulder once he realized Colt was passing.. If James had enough time to do that, then it still would have been a late hit in real time. There is only a 1 second, bam bam, period where defenders are allowed to hit the QB after the ball is released or it is a late hit no matter where he hits them. James was right on time, just in the wrong place. I kinda agree with the call but the the fine should not be too big imo.

btw, was that James first roughing call this year? If so, shouldn't the repeat offender crap be thrown out the window? James has hit many QB's since them with no problem.. things happen. The media and opposing fans are blowing this up!!

steelersfan77
12-09-2011, 10:52 PM
I want to change the subject a little but stay on the topic of certain blows to a quarterback. Isn't going low on a quarterback deemed a personal foul regardless of the situation? The Carson Palmer rule. Here ya go. The brown's defender goes low on Ben leading to the high ankle sprain. And no the defender was not assisted by an offensive player. It was the defensive players choice to go low regardless of the situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aYcvZwMBkk&feature=related

Most likely that defender had no time to react in real time but nevertheless it should of been a personal foul. Correct me if you guys see this differently.

As for James' hit on McCoy the rule states you can't make helmet to helmet contact with the quarterback or any blow to the helmet of the quarterback. So the refs got that call right with a personal foul call. I can't see how any one person could say he could've pulled up though. That's impossible to do. In no way possible should there be a fine for that hit. McCoy had tucked the ball showing he had transitioned to a runner. The only reason he layed that ball out there was because he saw Harrison coming. He was afraid plain and simple and he spotted what he thought was a security blanket at the last milisecond.

Then again Big Ben has taken so many shots in his career, late hits, blows to the head, ect. that have never warranted a penalty in the game or a fine of the player. What's up?....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodC2DAMp74&feature=related

Here is a hit made by GODells's boy Ray Ray. No flag, no fine on a defensless reciever....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1XbR_VEWow&feature=related

Here's another one recently to our boy Hines from Ray Lewis. Once again, no flag and no fine....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmyhcozGRr4

Oh but wait, now we're not dealing with GODells's boy Ray Ray, were dealing with our boy Ryan....hence the flag and the fine.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZSIXCdBd6o

What the hell is going on here? Not only are the calls on the field not consistent, neither are the fines. Something's not right about the way the NFL is being run.

jjpro11
12-09-2011, 11:25 PM
steelersfan77, when the QB is out of the pocket, defenders can go low. that was a legal hit, Ben should have thrown the ball away... i know he was trying to make a play.. live by the sword, die by the sword.. oh well. i wasn't aware of the specific rule itself until all this Harrison crap happened and the rules were posted online.

look, Harrison's hit, by rule, was a penalty. the ****ed up thing is, as typical with the NFL, they expect these defenders to be able to anticipate in real time the offensive player's next move.. if a receiver ducks at the last second the defender is screwed (Ryan Clark vs the Ravens). Harrison saw the opportunity to blow up the QB and probably cause a fumble, but McCoy threw the ball out at the last possible second and Harrison was screwed. you don't see this play very often because most QBs aren't stupid enough to run straight at an oncoming linebacker with their head straight up.

BleedPurple
12-10-2011, 12:20 AM
Thanks Bill Nye. I assume you have tried this yourself using the rules of science?

You're welcome. No, I just looked at the playback frame by frame, definitely NOT a quarter of a second. Regardless, you don't lead with your helmet against a QB anyway, and Harrison just can't get that through his thick skull. Based on his history of ignoring regulations, I believe he tackled Colt like he did on purpose, and that he would have done so if it had been 5 seconds after the ball was gone instead of 0.5 seconds.

Nobody likes the feather touch that is legal QB contact these days, but Harrison is going to get nowhere by just ignoring those rules. I see fine + suspension in his future, considering Colt is claiming he doesn't remember the rest of the game (convenient explanation for 2 picks).

BleedPurple
12-10-2011, 12:21 AM
I cannot freaking believe you man. He is going full speed and you expect him to change his angle in less than one second(by your estimation). Take your purple colored glasses off and be objective. I bet if this was Late hit Ray you see it a whole new way.:banging:

No, I expect him to lead with his shoulder, not the crown of his helmet, like the league wants.

BleedPurple
12-10-2011, 12:29 AM
I want to change the subject a little but stay on the topic of certain blows to a quarterback. Isn't going low on a quarterback deemed a personal foul regardless of the situation? The Carson Palmer rule. Here ya go. The brown's defender goes low on Ben leading to the high ankle sprain. And no the defender was not assisted by an offensive player. It was the defensive players choice to go low regardless of the situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aYcvZwMBkk&feature=related

Most likely that defender had no time to react in real time but nevertheless it should of been a personal foul. Correct me if you guys see this differently.

As for James' hit on McCoy the rule states you can't make helmet to helmet contact with the quarterback or any blow to the helmet of the quarterback. So the refs got that call right with a personal foul call. I can't see how any one person could say he could've pulled up though. That's impossible to do. In no way possible should there be a fine for that hit. McCoy had tucked the ball showing he had transitioned to a runner. The only reason he layed that ball out there was because he saw Harrison coming. He was afraid plain and simple and he spotted what he thought was a security blanket at the last milisecond.

Then again Big Ben has taken so many shots in his career, late hits, blows to the head, ect. that have never warranted a penalty in the game or a fine of the player. What's up?....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodC2DAMp74&feature=related

Here is a hit made by GODells's boy Ray Ray. No flag, no fine on a defensless reciever....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1XbR_VEWow&feature=related

Here's another one recently to our boy Hines from Ray Lewis. Once again, no flag and no fine....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmyhcozGRr4

Oh but wait, now we're not dealing with GODells's boy Ray Ray, were dealing with our boy Ryan....hence the flag and the fine.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZSIXCdBd6o

What the hell is going on here? Not only are the calls on the field not consistent, neither are the fines. Something's not right about the way the NFL is being run.

OK, I'm sorry, but you're incorrect almost across the board. I will look at your hits one by one.

1. Ray is clearly leading with his shoulder, if you can't see the difference between using your shoulder and the crown of your helmet, then there is no help for you.

2. Are you kidding? Ray WAS fined for that hit: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/09/ray-lewis-fined-for-hit-on-hines-ward/

3. Yes, illegal hit, fine and penalty.

And finally, Ben had tucked the ball. So by the same argument used to defend Harrison, the low hit on Ben was legal. The difference between the two is Ben never threw his ball.

jjpro11
12-10-2011, 12:43 AM
why the **** are you even here? i hope Harrison goes high and knocks Fuccko out in the playoffs just to piss off you self-righteous assholes. we all know your coach is a pompous, whiny, bitch. his behavior has clearly rubbed off on your fan base. lots of talk for a team that has done nothing but lose to Pittsburgh in the playoffs over the past 10 years.

BleedPurple
12-10-2011, 12:54 AM
why the **** are you even here? i hope Harrison goes high and knocks Fuccko out in the playoffs just to piss off you self-righteous assholes. we all know your coach is a pompous, whiny, bitch. his behavior has clearly rubbed off on your fan base. lots of talk for a team that has done nothing but lose to Pittsburgh in the playoffs over the past 10 years.

Most Steeler fans like to see cheap shots, so I'm not surprised--but why are you so mad though? :chuckle:

All I did was agree with pretty much everything you said in your previous post, except that I think Harrison intentionally gave McCoy a cheap shot, and you think he just didn't have time to pull up.

And I come here because I don't like to post on a board with 10,000 people who agree with me (Ravens boards). Most other boards don't talk about the Ravens as much as this one :noidea:

Also, it's the internet and I'll browse where I please :drink:

steelersfan77
12-10-2011, 01:02 AM
Okay, you guys can see it whatever way you want to spin it. I don't see how Ben is tucking the football. He never looks to tuck the football, he's looking to make a play with his arm. The fact is what the NFL has become is a joke. Run by a petty ass commissioner who's inconsistent along with a majority of the refs.

And I'll say this about folks like James Harrison and Ray Lewis. They aren't going to change and they're going to play the game as fast and as physical as possible. I respect them as football players first and foremost because they play the game the way it's supposed to be played. They go out there to put fear in the minds of their opponents.

McCoy is a big boy. He should've protected himself.

As far as the Ben hit goes. Brady and Manning take that hit whether out of the pocket or not that's a personal foul for going low on the darlings of the NFL. Inconsistency.

BleedPurple
12-10-2011, 01:24 AM
Okay, you guys can see it whatever way you want to spin it. I don't see how Ben is tucking the football. He never looks to tuck the football, he's looking to make a play with his arm. The fact is what the NFL has become is a joke. Run by a petty ass commissioner who's inconsistent along with a majority of the refs.

And I'll say this about folks like James Harrison and Ray Lewis. They aren't going to change and they're going to play the game as fast and as physical as possible. I respect them as football players first and foremost because they play the game the way it's supposed to be played. They go out there to put fear in the minds of their opponents.

McCoy is a big boy. He should've protected himself.

As far as the Ben hit goes. Brady and Manning take that hit whether out of the pocket or not that's a personal foul for going low on the darlings of the NFL. Inconsistency.

I agree as far as Manning and Brady goes, but that is a different argument. Here is a picture of the hit:

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m636/Andrew_Will/bentuck.png

Unless he is going to throw it like a discus, that is a tucked ball.

EDIT: Sorry for the quality, it is a capture of the youtube vid. Looks more like an impressionist painting of the hit, but it does the job. I have an arrow pointing to the position of the ball to show that it was clearly tucked.

SteeleReign
12-10-2011, 07:41 AM
You're welcome. No, I just looked at the playback frame by frame, definitely NOT a quarter of a second. Regardless, you don't lead with your helmet against a QB anyway, and Harrison just can't get that through his thick skull. Based on his history of ignoring regulations, I believe he tackled Colt like he did on purpose, and that he would have done so if it had been 5 seconds after the ball was gone instead of 0.5 seconds.

Nobody likes the feather touch that is legal QB contact these days, but Harrison is going to get nowhere by just ignoring those rules. I see fine + suspension in his future, considering Colt is claiming he doesn't remember the rest of the game (convenient explanation for 2 picks).

I think the crux of our argument is related to whether McCoy is considered a running back or a quarterback. It's apparent that the NFL needs to further define this rule. As is stands, the penalty was correct. However, no fine or suspension is in order due to the ambiguity of the written rule.

That being said, you are still a d-bag for suggesting that Harrison would have hit McCoy, like he did, 5 seconds later. It pisses me off that guys like you (and Goodell) paint Harrison as a dirty player, when he is just playing the type of football that was played & praised on every football field in this country 10 years ago. I don't know how old you are, but REAL football, played by REAL men, is a mean violent sport. Those of us that grew up with the Steelers of the 70's (you know, back when your team was the Browns) understand that the league is being pansy-fied.

As a Ratbird fan, you are simply looking for a reason to create a stir on a Steelers forum. As a Steeler fan, it pains me to say that Ray Lewis exemplifies what Steeler football has always been about. Ray, like Harrison, pushes the limits of legal football every game. And I respect him for that. That's what football is. Dangerous. Fast. Painful.

I'm surprised you're not a Marcia Brady fan with your sissy-fied view of football.

TRH
12-10-2011, 08:06 AM
Most Steeler fans like to see cheap shots, so I'm not surprised--but why are you so mad though? :chuckle:

All I did was agree with pretty much everything you said in your previous post, except that I think Harrison intentionally gave McCoy a cheap shot, and you think he just didn't have time to pull up.

And I come here because I don't like to post on a board with 10,000 people who agree with me (Ravens boards). Most other boards don't talk about the Ravens as much as this one :noidea:

Also, it's the internet and I'll browse where I please :drink:

I highly disagree. Most Steeler fans DO NOT like to take cheap shots. In fact, we take cheap shots probably less than any other team in football. Like the team or not, we're a pretty well-educated and friendly group.

BleedPurple
12-10-2011, 09:11 AM
I think the crux of our argument is related to whether McCoy is considered a running back or a quarterback. It's apparent that the NFL needs to further define this rule. As is stands, the penalty was correct. However, no fine or suspension is in order due to the ambiguity of the written rule.

That being said, you are still a d-bag for suggesting that Harrison would have hit McCoy, like he did, 5 seconds later. It pisses me off that guys like you (and Goodell) paint Harrison as a dirty player, when he is just playing the type of football that was played & praised on every football field in this country 10 years ago. I don't know how old you are, but REAL football, played by REAL men, is a mean violent sport. Those of us that grew up with the Steelers of the 70's (you know, back when your team was the Browns) understand that the league is being pansy-fied.

As a Ratbird fan, you are simply looking for a reason to create a stir on a Steelers forum. As a Steeler fan, it pains me to say that Ray Lewis exemplifies what Steeler football has always been about. Ray, like Harrison, pushes the limits of legal football every game. And I respect him for that. That's what football is. Dangerous. Fast. Painful.

I'm surprised you're not a Marcia Brady fan with your sissy-fied view of football.

Whoah whoah whoah whoah whoah. If you read over all of my posts, you will see that I love hard hitting football and do not like the 'pansification' of football that is taking away all those hard hits that used to be highlight reel material. I am 24 years old and I only started watching football in college (about 6 years ago now), but I see the classic tape on NFL network like anyone else.

However, I also do not like football veterans that can't walk, kill themselves because of the depression which results from constant pain, brain legions, early onset dementia that turns 40 year old men into drooling diaper-clad pissbags, or on field deaths. "Real men" also used to clothesline and helmet slap. Before that, "real men" wore leather helmets and smoked a pack of cigarettes a game on the sidelines. "Real men" were a lot slower and weaker 10+ years ago. So please do not call me a douche bag for recognizing the fact that the league has changed in the past 10 years. Harrison needs to wake up to that fact and stop making dirty hits if he is not a dirty player.

Bottom line: you can have those big hits, but at the speed the game is played today tacklers need to learn to do it properly and lead with their damn shoulder.

BleedPurple
12-10-2011, 09:13 AM
I highly disagree. Most Steeler fans DO NOT like to take cheap shots. In fact, we take cheap shots probably less than any other team in football. Like the team or not, we're a pretty well-educated and friendly group.

I was just dishing with the guy who said he wanted harrison to KO Flacco to piss me off.

SteeleReign
12-10-2011, 10:22 AM
Whoah whoah whoah whoah whoah. If you read over all of my posts, you will see that I love hard hitting football and do not like the 'pansification' of football that is taking away all those hard hits that used to be highlight reel material. I am 24 years old and I only started watching football in college (about 6 years ago now), but I see the classic tape on NFL network like anyone else.

However, I also do not like football veterans that can't walk, kill themselves because of the depression which results from constant pain, brain legions, early onset dementia that turns 40 year old men into drooling diaper-clad pissbags, or on field deaths. "Real men" also used to clothesline and helmet slap. Before that, "real men" wore leather helmets and smoked a pack of cigarettes a game on the sidelines. "Real men" were a lot slower and weaker 10+ years ago. So please do not call me a douche bag for recognizing the fact that the league has changed in the past 10 years. Harrison needs to wake up to that fact and stop making dirty hits if he is not a dirty player.

Bottom line: you can have those big hits, but at the speed the game is played today tacklers need to learn to do it properly and lead with their damn shoulder.

I tell you what...if you want to acknowledge Ray Lewis as a dirty player then I will agree that Harrison is too. Fair?

4xSBChamps
12-10-2011, 10:40 AM
I tell you what...if you want to acknowledge Ray Lewis as a dirty player then I will agree that Harrison is too. Fair?

"... and you best think about dat answer very-carefully, BleedPurple...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/football/RayLewiswithagun.jpg

...VERY-CAREFULLY!!!"

steelfury02
12-10-2011, 11:29 AM
he's clearly taken every chance he can get to knock the Steelers and their players. I'd bet money bleed purple isn't on the Detroit Lions board criticizing Suh.

You come on to a Steelers message board and expect people to either see things your way, as a Ravens fan, or to just sit back and read your rants, again as a Ravens fan, about Harrison

if you are willing to keep coming back for more punishment, then it'll be served to you with a smile:chuckle:

#1LambertFan
12-11-2011, 07:41 AM
Except he didn't run, he threw. Just saying. I don't agree with the softening of football over the past few years by any stretch, but you can't use the he was running argument, because he wasn't past the line of scrimmage and he threw the ball. . .

Harrison already commited to the tackle and McCoy decided to pass in the final instant of the play. McCoy even left his feet to make the pass. 1 Harrison was lined up for Colts chest and 2 Colt was an idiot for leaving his feet. Rule one of not getting injured in football is to stay on your feet!

SteeleReign
12-11-2011, 08:23 AM
Harrison already commited to the tackle and McCoy decided to pass in the final instant of the play. McCoy even left his feet to make the pass. 1 Harrison was lined up for Colts chest and 2 Colt was an idiot for leaving his feet. Rule one of not getting injured in football is to stay on your feet!

By the letter of the law, I have no issue with the penalty. However, if a suspension or fine for that matter, is to come I will have a problem with that. Goodell and his posse need to address this QB as a runner issue and clearly define it. Is a QB ever considered a RB? If so, when? Is a QB a QB until he passes the LOS?

steelfury02
12-11-2011, 09:04 AM
well thanks to the media's piling on about Harrison, I'm starting to expect him to be out versus the Niners. As someone mentioned before - Goodell gives the media plenty of time to rant and rant, and then he makes a decision. It has become pretty obvious Goodell is going to operate based on the media and the casual fan/public's opinion.

If the rules were set up the way they were supposed to be - it shouldn't take this long to figure out how you want to handle the hit. Instead, it is becoming the NBA where image (and as a result of this approach - lack there of) is everything and a consistent approach means nothing.

It was a Thursday night game, and now you won't/can't respond until sometime Monday or Tuesday? Yea - they have a lot on their plate - but what else exactly is on that plate that forces the decision to be held off on until 3 1/2 - 4 days later? Answer - media coverage. If player safety was such a priority then both an answer to Harrison's hit AND the Browns letting him back in the game would have been dealt with consistency and a sense of urgency. Here's the history, precedence and result. Pretty plain and simple right?

Yes - that is painting it with broad strokes - but if the NFL is going to take this inconsistent approach to player safety, I can only assume there is no real method except the one that enhances the NEW NFL brand - less defense, more offense please.

There will come a day where you won't be able to touch the QB or the receiver and hope you can intercept or bat down the ball - it will come to that, mark my words and as someone stated you'll see scoring in the 70s, 80s, 100s - it isn't out of the question and the thought is not unrealistic. Look how hard guys are hitting, yet the top offenses are now scoring in the 40s and 50s.

sharkweek
12-12-2011, 01:49 AM
I agree as far as Manning and Brady goes, but that is a different argument. Here is a picture of the hit:

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m636/Andrew_Will/bentuck.png

Unless he is going to throw it like a discus, that is a tucked ball.

EDIT: Sorry for the quality, it is a capture of the youtube vid. Looks more like an impressionist painting of the hit, but it does the job. I have an arrow pointing to the position of the ball to show that it was clearly tucked.

while it was tucked, he was in the pocket and not running forward, never did he look like he was going to just settle for scrambling