PDA

View Full Version : Playing the Devils Advocate II


clevestinks
06-25-2006, 08:20 AM
I did this one time before on another subject, so lets see how this goes!

Its way to premature to talk about how good Omar Jacobs is or isn`t. But he does seem to have alot of our fans attention. It wouldn`t be right for me to have an opinion either way because I honestly not followed his career. BUT lets say he is as good as alot of you are saying, and two to three years from now he has some good preseason games, he plays well in mop up time, and even plays well when given the chance because Ben has the flu.
We all know and love the Rooneys, be we also know they our penny pinchers at times, although recently they have opened thier wallets a little more. At the end of Bens contract, we know the heat would be on for huge money. Could the emergence of Omar be the difference on the Steelers keeping Ben? Like I said I know its premature, but alot of people here are sold on Jacobs talents, I for one hope he is good but not to good, Sorry!

BlacknGold Bleeder
06-25-2006, 08:50 AM
Boy you just love to start an arguement,don't ya....:bouncy:

BlackNGold203
06-25-2006, 08:51 AM
Interesting hypothesis...(YOU DEVIL!!)....:hasign:

You are correct...the Rooneys...albeit certainly not "cheap"...do not just throw money at problems...

Omar Jacobs?...puhleez...he needs to prove he's not Tee Martin or Brian St Pierre first..

As far as Ben goes...if his career continues on its current path..he isnt going anywhere. How many teams have not signed their "franchise" QB's??...Brees and Culpeper were let go with injury concerns..and the jury is still out on them.

I'm sure Jacobs has some potential...but man...thats awfully speculative right now

clevestinks
06-25-2006, 09:37 AM
Interesting hypothesis...(YOU DEVIL!!)....:hasign:

You are correct...the Rooneys...albeit certainly not "cheap"...do not just throw money at problems...

Omar Jacobs?...puhleez...he needs to prove he's not Tee Martin or Brian St Pierre first..

As far as Ben goes...if his career continues on its current path..he isnt going anywhere. How many teams have not signed their "franchise" QB's??...Brees and Culpeper were let go with injury concerns..and the jury is still out on them.

I'm sure Jacobs has some potential...but man...thats awfully speculative right now
I`m on your side here, couldn`t agree more! But I just thought we would stir things up a little in late June!

Black@Gold Forever32
06-25-2006, 10:31 AM
I`m on your side here, couldn`t agree more! But I just thought we would stir things up a little in late June!

Damn, Cleve thats a good question. I'm a fan of the Mac conference. So, I usually follow all the Mac QB's in college. But I think even if Omar Jacobs shows signs of being a solid NFL QB. I still think the Rooney's will resign Ben, even though they don't like to over pay for players. I, do think though there will be clauses in Ben's contract on riding motorcycles when that time comes. I, just think Ben has proven and accomplished to much for the Rooney's not to resign him.

Lyn
06-25-2006, 10:40 AM
I did this one time before on another subject, so lets see how this goes!

Its way to premature to talk about how good Omar Jacobs is or isn`t. But he does seem to have alot of our fans attention. It wouldn`t be right for me to have an opinion either way because I honestly not followed his career. BUT lets say he is as good as alot of you are saying, and two to three years from now he has some good preseason games, he plays well in mop up time, and even plays well when given the chance because Ben has the flu.
We all know and love the Rooneys, be we also know they our penny pinchers at times, although recently they have opened thier wallets a little more. At the end of Bens contract, we know the heat would be on for huge money. Could the emergence of Omar be the difference on the Steelers keeping Ben? Like I said I know its premature, but alot of people here are sold on Jacobs talents, I for one hope he is good but not to good, Sorry!


How about we wait and see if Omar is another Ben. If he is........well let's just see :) LOL
great point to bring out!~

SteelCzar76
06-25-2006, 10:47 AM
Very good question Cleve. I think Ben will retire a Steeler barring major injury. He's already accomplished what was considered nearly impossible and he's still so young. Rest assured the Rooney's would spend whatever it takes to keep him here. Possibly at the expense of other players. I mean,..look how long they let Kordell kill us,...and Ben is a true potential hall of Famer.
If Omar does develop the way his talent dictates he should there's no way we could keep him as a backup. In short we're in all likelyhood grooming another teams franchise Quaterback. Long story short,.. even if he (Omar) turned out to be better and it came down to decision time,...they'd keep Ben and let Omar walk.


"Hail Caesar,...Hail the Black and Gold"

nicesteel4life
06-25-2006, 10:48 AM
I agree only time will tell on this one. Ben is going to want a HUGE contract, but after this horriable accident, I think it cuts down on the price that he will want from the STEELERS. I think he feels a little dumb for letting us ALL down. Omar has to prove he can play still, we all know College stats mean nothing in the NFL. Now if he does, I think it is a win win situation for us. I still feel Ben has injury issues and this year will be a true test for him. If Jacobs plays like we all hope he does then it could be very very interesting!

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
06-25-2006, 12:18 PM
Ben took us to the superbowl in his second year
Dont care how bad he played in the superbowl.
He played great in the playoffs.

Hes not going anywhere..........his name brings big money to the steelers org.
As long as he can stay healthy...........he will retire as a steelers.
Plus....after the hit he took of that car............no sac should ever shake him up.

steelcity984
06-25-2006, 02:58 PM
If Omar shows true potential (a la Matt Shaub), the Steelers will trade him and they'll make sure they get exactly what they need for him.

Livinginthe past
06-25-2006, 03:09 PM
Ok here is a question for Steeler fans and no beating about the bush with your answers.

Bens comes to the Steelers F.O. at the end of this current season - the Steelers made the playoffs but didnt make the SB - and he asks to be made the highest paid QB in Steeler history.

He wants the same numbers as Manning, which will make him the highest paid QB in the NFL.

Baltimore are willing to match this bid.

What do the Steelers F.O do?

NM

Black@Gold Forever32
06-25-2006, 03:29 PM
Ok here is a question for Steeler fans and no beating about the bush with your answers.

Bens comes to the Steelers F.O. at the end of this current season - the Steelers made the playoffs but didnt make the SB - and he asks to be made the highest paid QB in Steeler history.

He wants the same numbers as Manning, which will make him the highest paid QB in the NFL.

Baltimore are willing to match this bid.

What do the Steelers F.O do?

NM

LITP, well Ben's current contract isn't up to the 2008 or 2009 season. So yea he could demand that and threaten that he will hold out. As you saw the Steelers don't cave in to demands and let Hines Ward hold out. So I think the Rooney's will do the same with Ben if such thing happens.

tony hipchest
06-25-2006, 03:30 PM
Ok here is a question for Steeler fans and no beating about the bush with your answers.

Bens comes to the Steelers F.O. at the end of this current season - the Steelers made the playoffs but didnt make the SB - and he asks to be made the highest paid QB in Steeler history.

He wants the same numbers as Manning, which will make him the highest paid QB in the NFL.

Baltimore are willing to match this bid.

What do the Steelers F.O do?

NM tell baltimore to kiss off cause ben is still signed for several more years. if ben wants more money he needs to think about the $2 mil he lost in the campbell's soup add.

Livinginthe past
06-25-2006, 03:35 PM
LITP, well Ben's current contract isn't up to the 2008 or 2009 season. So yea he could demand that and threaten that he will hold out. As you saw the Steelers don't cave in to demands and let Hines Ward hold out. So I think the Rooney's will do the same with Ben if such thing happens.

Losing your No.1 receiver is a little less important than losing the QB who has helped your team make the step up from perennial challengers to actual champions.

Im trying to gauge how highly you guys rate him.

If, theoretically, you had to pay him him Manning-esque wages next year or lose him , do you think they should pay him the money?

I know his contact is not up for re-negotiation for a few years, but bear with me on this one.

NM

Black@Gold Forever32
06-25-2006, 03:40 PM
Losing your No.1 receiver is a little less important than losing the QB who has helped your team make the step up from perennial challengers to actual champions.

Im trying to gauge how highly you guys rate him.

If, theoretically, you had to pay him him Manning-esque wages next year or lose him , do you think they should pay him the money?

I know his contact is not up for re-negotiation for a few years, but bear with me on this one.

NM

Ok, the Rooney's usually don't overpay for a player. If Ben asked for Peyton Manning money I still think the Rooney's would give him his money. With all the success the team has had with Ben at such a early stage in his career I think thats why they would give him the money. But I bet everything that I own the Steelers would put clauses in Ben's contract about Ben staying off motorcycles.

tony hipchest
06-25-2006, 03:42 PM
theoretically ben would sign a deal similar to bradys. or he would be a raven. pretty soon though ben will have to be paid like a top 5 qb and that means surpassing wack assed deals like alex smith has. the steelers understand the economics and value of ben and will do the right thing short of allowing 1 player try to hold the whole team hostage.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
06-25-2006, 04:04 PM
If Ben threatens to hold out then hes gonna find himself sitting on the bench.

Ben was an 11th pick so hes proubably not making the money he should be.

Rivers and Eli. are both make much more than him.........It would be fair to equal that with a bonus or a new contract.

Livinginthe past
06-25-2006, 04:08 PM
Thanks for the answers guys.

Personally, if you have fans of other teams admitting you have a QB who has the 'intangibles' I think you have to pay him

The Patriots have shown they will do so, with players they feel to be indispensible.

The Steelers havent had to deal with such a situation during the salary cap era, I imagine they will go the same route some time soon.

NM

tony hipchest
06-25-2006, 04:11 PM
Thanks for the answers guys.

Personally, if you have fans of other teams admitting you have a QB who has the 'intangibles' I think you have to pay him

The Patriots have shown they will do so, with players they feel to be indispensible.

The Steelers havent had to deal with such a situation during the salary cap era, I imagine they will go the same route some time soon.

NM its pretty much a consensus that ben and troy will probably get and deserve top dollar.

Black@Gold Forever32
06-25-2006, 04:13 PM
its pretty much a consensus that ben and troy will probably get and deserve top dollar.

They better. I don't want to see those two ever leave or in another teams uniform.

Livinginthe past
06-25-2006, 04:16 PM
Im guessing that would be hard for you guys.

There is much admiration for those two players in the league.

Both are 'elite' - and while I dont think Polamalu is the best at his position in the NFL I think he has easily the most potential upside to actually re-define the position in coming years.

If it wasn't the Patriots I would hate to see him play for any other team.

NM

Black@Gold Forever32
06-25-2006, 04:22 PM
Im guessing that would be hard for you guys.

There is much admiration for those two players in the league.

Both are 'elite' - and while I dont think Polamalu is the best at his position in the NFL I think he has easily the most potential upside to actually re-define the position in coming years.

If it wasn't the Patriots I would hate to see him play for any other team.

NM

Its going to be very hard for the Steelers when both Troy and Ben's contracts are up. How can you let either one of those players go? Ben Roethlisberger in his two years with the team.. the Steelers as a team have had so much success I can't see how you can let this guy walk. With Ben as the starting QB they have that certain mojo as a team.

Troy Polamalu is one of the best young defensive players in the whole NFL. He is the perfect hybrid S/LB type that LeBeau loves for his defensive 3-4 scheme.

Livinginthe past
06-25-2006, 04:28 PM
Its going to be very hard for the Steelers when both Troy and Ben's contracts are up. How can you let either one of those players go? Ben Roethlisberger in his two years with the team.. the Steelers as a team have had so much success I can't see how you can let this guy walk. With Ben as the starting QB they have that certain mojo as a team.

Troy Polamalu is one of the best young defensive players in the whole NFL. He is the perfect hybrid S/LB type that LeBeau loves for his defensive 3-4 scheme.

That, alas, is the payback in the salary cap era.

The Patriots have had a real hard time re-signing guys I would consider to be solid contributors, mainly due to the fact they are part of a ring winning team.

Andruzzi, Givens are a couple of guys who spring to mind.

We have dodged a bullet or two regarding major players contracts - im thinking Brady and his home town discount, Vrabel and his insistence on negotiating without an agent (How cool is that?) and the fact Bruschi seems to have a rolling contact for the rest of his career!

I watch with interest to see if the Steelers are as lucky, and part of me would like to see it work out for you guys - when we beat you I want it to be the best team you can put out.

Im sure feel the same

NM

SteelCzar76
06-25-2006, 04:33 PM
It's simple,...if players like Troy or Ben don't get hurt,...you do everything in your power to keep them. I.e restructuring their contracts before they even become free agents. As far as Ben demanding Manning money i don't think he would do it,...because he seems like a player who's more concerned with winning than being a rich stud on a team that can't afford enough talent to get over the hump. We win another title this year he,.. deserves top three money. I mean Marsha's (Brady) got three titles,...how can he expect more than him ?


"Hail Caesar,....Hail the Black and Gold"

SteelProven
06-25-2006, 06:00 PM
O. Jacobs would of been a first round pick if he'd stayed at Bowling Green. While he has all the tools to be a solid if not great player. Ben already has accomplished what O. Jacobs could ever dream of achieving. Ben is a once in a lifetime player that you just can't let go of, period. But with all the injuries to starting QB's these days it wouldn't be a surprise if the Steelers kept both. Kind of reminds me of Gilliam and Bradshaw.

clevestinks
06-25-2006, 07:18 PM
There is much admiration for those two players in the league.

Both are 'elite' - and while I dont think Polamalu is the best at his position in the NFL I think he has easily the most potential upside to actually re-define the position in coming years.

NM
If he played the position as the position is in the "text book" he has the ability to play it as good as anyone, its just his is a much bigger role, I agree. I`m guessing that your choice would be harrison, he would be a good second pick

Livinginthe past
06-25-2006, 10:28 PM
If he played the position as the position is in the "text book" he has the ability to play it as good as anyone, its just his is a much bigger role, I agree. I`m guessing that your choice would be harrison, he would be a good second pick

A fully fit harrison circa 2003 would be my pick for sure - playmaking skills plus the ability to be the DB's quarterback.

I'd probably take Dawkins at this point also.

NM

SteelerFanInCA
06-26-2006, 01:00 PM
I hope the FO would pay the guy what he wants and deserves. A guy like Ben doesn't come along that often. No way in hell would I want to see him in a ratbird uniform. We've suffered all too much with QB play in recent years. Gotta keep him!!!

Haiku_Dirtt
06-26-2006, 01:42 PM
Interesting hypothesis...(YOU DEVIL!!).problems...

Omar Jacobs?...puhleez...he needs to prove he's not Tee Martin or Brian St Pierre first..



Well let's reflect on this topic.

Toledo, Akron, Western Michigan, Boise State and Wisconson were some of the tenacious defenses he couldn't beat last year.

Okay I'll throw out the loss to the Badgers. I'm not knocking on the competition at Bowling Green because I was fortunate enough to watch the likes of Polamalu and Lofa Tatupu play college ball.

Well. Yes I am.

How jaded do you think Brain St. Pierre was after the Maddox Jacksonville debacle last season. He puts a stop to the Steelers stringing him along at precisely the wrong time.

Haiku_Dirtt
06-26-2006, 02:01 PM
career!

I watch with interest to see if the Steelers are as lucky, and part of me would like to see it work out for you guys - when we beat you I want it to be the best team you can put out.

Im sure feel the same

NM

That is why good drafts make great teams. Getting players that understand the big picture is one way.

I don't see Ben or Troy putting a gun to the collective head of the Steelers. And I don't see Art II playing low ball with either. Merchadise numbers are way way up.

Polamalu drives a freaking pick up truck. His value system today is the exact same as when he wreaked havoc on opposing offenses at USC. Steelers Fans debating The Ben vs. Troy non-issue are having trouble accepting the good fortune. Leigh Steinberg is the only thorn that remains to keeping both Steelers for life.

Bad luck came in the first round of the last draft. I'm still dwelling on the fact that our future tailback plays for the Titans

section514
06-26-2006, 02:10 PM
Ben took us to the superbowl in his second year
Dont care how bad he played in the superbowl.
He played great in the playoffs.

Hes not going anywhere..........his name brings big money to the steelers org.
As long as he can stay healthy...........he will retire as a steelers.
Plus....after the hit he took of that car............no sac should ever shake him up.
or every sack he takes shakes him up...:shake01:

clevestinks
06-26-2006, 02:12 PM
A fully fit harrison circa 2003 would be my pick for sure - playmaking skills plus the ability to be the DB's quarterback.

I'd probably take Dawkins at this point also.

NM
Fully fit? But he has not been, so does this still put him at the top of the class? I say no, 2003 may have been a great year for him, but the what have you done for me lately rule applies.

Black@Gold Forever32
06-26-2006, 02:42 PM
Fully fit? But he has not been, so does this still put him at the top of the class? I say no, 2003 may have been a great year for him, but the what have you done for me lately rule applies.

All I know Cleve, my fellow Steelers bro. I could care less where people rank Troy Polamalu among the top safties in the NFL. Troy is the perfect hybrid S/LB that Coach LeBeau loves for his 3-4 defensive scheme. I wouldn't want any other strong safety.

SteelCzar76
06-26-2006, 06:23 PM
Not to get my "Homer" on,..but i think Troy will go down as one of our greatest db's ever along with Rod and Mel Blount. I said the same on the official site boards before the Draft that year and nothing's changed. It's very rare that you get a player of his caliber with such character. I said it before,..and i'll say it again,.."The kid has the heart of a Samurai".
I agree with most of the Fam here that neither Troy or Ben will try to "Break" the team for the sake of greed,..no matter what agent is involved. End of the day,..yes ,..this (football) is a buisness, but doing the honorable thing will always grant you immortality. Bussy is one of the best examples ever,..he could have left us for the Redskins or the Dolphins but he stayed,..and look at the outcome.


"Hail Caesar,...Hail the Black and Gold"

clevestinks
06-26-2006, 06:27 PM
All I know Cleve, my fellow Steelers bro. I could care less where people rank Troy Polamalu among the top safties in the NFL. Troy is the perfect hybrid S/LB that Coach LeBeau loves for his 3-4 defensive scheme. I wouldn't want any other strong safety.
I agree and he fits the system so well, or the system has been adjusted to take full of advantage of one of the best athletes in the NFL, either way I like it! I with LITP on Harrison, but until he has another complete season I don`t consider him the best S!

Black@Gold Forever32
06-26-2006, 07:14 PM
I agree and he fits the system so well, or the system has been adjusted to take full of advantage of one of the best athletes in the NFL, either way I like it! I with LITP on Harrison, but until he has another complete season I don`t consider him the best S!

Troy, is a great athlete. I agree one of the best in the NFL. Troy Polamalu would thrive in any teams system. We could debate on who the top safties are in the NFL. I agree Troy probally isn't there all the way yet. But he is very close. The thing about Rodney Harrison though he is coming off that terrible injury and at his age...Rodney might have lost a step. Its going to be interesting seeing Rodney back this year.

I'm just so excited about watching Troy this season. He is one of those players that you just love to watch. Plus he is so humble. I love hearing his post game interviews. Not once does he praise himself. He always gives credit to Coach LeBeau. The whole Steelers defense has so much respect for Coach LeBeau as they should.

SteelCzar76
06-26-2006, 07:56 PM
Your right Black and Gold,...i dislike to admit it,..but Harrison is the Truth. But then again,.. i have no love for the Patsie's. I do respect them though. Dawk is a free agent after this season and we wouldn't make moves,.. but what do you think the Pat's would do ? Or maybe that's a question better posed for "LivinInThePast" LOL ?!

"Hail Caesar,...Hail the Black and Gold"

Livinginthe past
06-27-2006, 01:24 AM
Fully fit? But he has not been, so does this still put him at the top of the class? I say no, 2003 may have been a great year for him, but the what have you done for me lately rule applies.

I guess what I am saying is that he was the best safety in the league in 2003 and probably 2004 aswell.

There is no way I can put him anywhere at this point, at least until we see him face some decent opposition.

Its very likely he will have lost a step, but then he was always a shade ahead of the game anyway - with his whole Mr. Angry act I think people probably dont realise what an intelligent guy he is.

I think he already a part of Patriots folklore - his return from injury will be pretty emotional I think - up there with Bruschi for sure.

NM

Livinginthe past
06-27-2006, 01:27 AM
Your right Black and Gold,...i dislike to admit it,..but Harrison is the Truth. But then again,.. i have no love for the Patsie's. I do respect them though. Dawk is a free agent after this season and we wouldn't make moves,.. but what do you think the Pat's would do ? Or maybe that's a question better posed for "LivinInThePast" LOL ?!

"Hail Caesar,...Hail the Black and Gold"

If you are asking would the Patriots make moves to sign Dawkins the answer is definitely yes.

The key thing is the player - Rodney came to us because he wanted to play for a winner, not for a final fat pay check.

If Dawkins is willing to sacrafice a few bucks for a genuine shot at a ring then im sure he would be welcome in New England.

NM

CowherLover
06-27-2006, 07:27 AM
If Ben threatens to hold out then hes gonna find himself sitting on the bench.

Ben was an 11th pick so hes proubably not making the money he should be.

Rivers and Eli. are both make much more than him.........It would be fair to equal that with a bonus or a new contract.
Just curious if anyone knows or remembers how much he received in Incentive money his first year. His over-all contract wasn't staggering I'm sure but what he's gotten with incentive and endorsements has to be huge. I don't think that he's gonna come back to the FO in a few years and make demands after they have treated him with kid gloves after his accident. I could be wrong but I would think he's especially been humbled and will not forget how all this was handled. Ok, no smart a$$ comments about his memory lol!

Cap
06-30-2006, 12:31 AM
They better. I don't want to see those two ever leave or in another teams uniform.

Me either! I shudder to think about that one!! :cya: