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View Full Version : Steelers & Broncos = lowest scoring teams in playoffs


tony hipchest
01-03-2012, 09:32 PM
steelers is 11th with 20.3 ppg and rounding out the bottom of the list is the broncos a single point lower at 19.3.

Norv Turner will not be our OC next year since he is staying in San diego. the broncos enter the playoffs off a huge 3 point explosion vs the cheifs.

i dont wanna hear about bens injury because even the statue batch is capable of putting up points in this offense.

so a brand new bronco regime can put up just a point less per game with a qb who cant hit the broadside of a barn vs what arians can muster up with a top 5 qb like ben???

:confused:

i'm glad to be in the playoffs but it just aint right.

i guess it is dick lebeau and his #1 ranked defense's fault for not holding onto leads or allowing teams to score in the 4 games we lost. :banging:

Curtain_of_Steel
01-03-2012, 09:36 PM
Well it certianly wasn't the offense that let that POS Flacco dirve 90 years in the last minute to beat us, was it? We propelled into the #1 Def the latter half of the year when we started dominating the POS teams. We did well on the other teams, but teams like the rams, browns certainly added the stats.

tony hipchest
01-03-2012, 09:39 PM
we cant score points.

stb_steeler
01-03-2012, 09:56 PM
we cant score points.

That shit needs to change, u would think something would pop into airhead's head!
Lets run it up the gut 4 in a row. Yeah that should work....:doh:

harrison'samonster
01-03-2012, 10:16 PM
this teams problems with turnovers (giving them away and not taking any) has had a lot to do with there problem putting up points. The offense hasn't gotten the benefit of short fields, many returns for tds, or big momentum switches.

It's been a big problem, but still just a part of the problem. They don't seem to be able to finish drives well.

Yes, I am blaming the defense for this team not putting up points. Sorry.

Sixburgher
01-03-2012, 10:22 PM
Lets run it up the gut 4 in a row. Yeah that should work....:doh:

It would if the offensive line outside of Pouncey was actually worth half a shit.

tony hipchest
01-03-2012, 10:38 PM
mike wallace was being talked about as the best wr in the game right along with megatron before bruce arians' "we'll trick em" scheme shut him down for the second half of the season. :muhaha:

hopefully he'll have a revival and sanders is healed going into the dance, otherwise a hobbled ben trying to force feed it to brown will lead to 2+ int + a sack/fumble games just like the superbowl last year.

in other words the defense is fine, even w/o all the sacks and int's. its up to the offense to sustain some drives and manufacture some points.

StainlessStill
01-03-2012, 11:20 PM
There's a reason we can't score points. Self-inflicting. Everyone wants to blame Arians but how many times did you see a dropped pass, interception, false start, illegal formation or an unnecessary roughness called when we buckle down? A lot. We kill our own drives. When we did put it together, good things happened, like the Patriots game, the Titans game and the Bengals game. Doesn't help that our offensive line can't see one piece of health for the life of them. I'd like to see one half of football to where our O-LINE sticks together!

Shit, at the rate we are going, if Starks goes down, forget it. Imagine Suggs if we play in Baltimore without Starks. It's just a loathe the whole way around. We can't beat ourselves, period. We can score points. Hopefully, this defense cause's a TURNOVER once in awhile and gives our offense a shot with field position. Our offense had to go 80+ yards on virtually every drive against San Fran, on the road. Can't do that constantly. This offense needs our D to cause a turnover and they are rarely doing it this season.

tony hipchest
01-03-2012, 11:34 PM
There's a reason we can't score points. Self-inflicting. Everyone wants to blame Arians but how many times did you see a dropped pass, interception, false start, illegal formation or an unnecessary roughness called when we buckle down? A lot. .i see it every weekend from about 2 dozen teams. those teams are currently called "golfers"," fishemen" or "couch watchers".

the good offensive teams of the league easilly score 20 points without point offa turnovers even being factored in.

i didnt see green bay back up, matt flynn, whining about having to drive 80 yards with 2 reserve tackles and no running game to put up 6 td's vs ndomakung suh. :hunch:

StainlessStill
01-04-2012, 12:07 AM
i didnt see green bay back up, matt flynn, whining about having to drive 80 yards with 2 reserve tackles and no running game.


Wait a minute here. Stop using your own arguments to make your theory look somewhat debatable. First off, Green Bay has the #3 offense in the league. Detroit owns the #5 offense in the league. On the flip-side, Green Bay owns the 32nd ranked defense while the Lions own the #23 overall ranked defense. On my calculation, you're going to compare the top offense's duking it out against the worst defense's in the same game and compare THAT to the Steelers woes VS the 49'ers who both own a top 5 defense who gives up the LEAST amount of points, respectively within the league? Come on, man.

to put up 6 td's vs ndomakung suh.

Heh, I didn't know Suh played all 11 positions on Detroit's 23rd ranked defense. The Lions defense is also one of the leading teams in penalties this season and Suh is the leading candidate, committing 119 defensive penalties, 3 behind, you guessed it, the vaunted Green Bay Packers, with 122. What a shock those defense's gives up yardage and points like fresh hot-cakes, which was displayed in their matchup by Matt Flynn. Charlie Batch, no question, could tear up those defense's.

the good offensive teams of the league easilly score 20 points without point offa turnovers even being factored in.

Look a little closer. You say the good offensive teams in this league score 20 points easily like we never, ever do so. We are averaging 20.3 points a game this season and our offense ranks 12th in the league. Not too bad considering you make them out to be absolute bottom-feeders. To the actual numbers, we're actually "good" to your standards.

Again, we have the scheme to score. We just must eliminate our own stupid penalties and mistakes to give ourselves a chance within the red-zone. Eager to see how injuries stay together as well. We NEED health on the offensive line. PERIOD, to score. I actually think Redman gives us the best option in the run game, for our o-line to succeed.

tanda10506
01-04-2012, 01:32 AM
steelers is 11th with 20.3 ppg and rounding out the bottom of the list is the broncos a single point lower at 19.3.

Norv Turner will not be our OC next year since he is staying in San diego. the broncos enter the playoffs off a huge 3 point explosion vs the cheifs.

i dont wanna hear about bens injury because even the statue batch is capable of putting up points in this offense.

so a brand new bronco regime can put up just a point less per game with a qb who cant hit the broadside of a barn vs what arians can muster up with a top 5 qb like ben???

:confused:

i'm glad to be in the playoffs but it just aint right.

i guess it is dick lebeau and his #1 ranked defense's fault for not holding onto leads or allowing teams to score in the 4 games we lost. :banging:

The defense is to blame a small amount, mainly for the second Baltimore game and no turnovers. But I do pretty much agree with you, if you have a top 5 qb and what some people say is the best WR corp in football and you still only average 1 more point then a team with a second year qb who usually goes 6-22, 0 td's and 2 int's(similar) and considers themselves in the "rebuilding" stage, then yeah something is wrong. There have been some other valid points but mainly Arians is to blame.

tony hipchest
01-04-2012, 01:50 AM
Wait a minute here. Stop using your own arguments to make your theory look somewhat debatable. First off, Green Bay has the #3 offense in the league. Detroit owns the #5 offense in the league. On the flip-side, Green Bay owns the 32nd ranked defense while the Lions own the #23 overall ranked defense. On my calculation, you're going to compare the top offense's duking it out against the worst defense's in the same game and compare THAT to the Steelers woes VS the 49'ers who both own a top 5 defense who gives up the LEAST amount of points, respectively within the league? Come on, man.



Heh, I didn't know Suh played all 11 positions on Detroit's 23rd ranked defense. The Lions defense is also one of the leading teams in penalties this season and Suh is the leading candidate, committing 119 defensive penalties, 3 behind, you guessed it, the vaunted Green Bay Packers, with 122. What a shock those defense's gives up yardage and points like fresh hot-cakes, which was displayed in their matchup by Matt Flynn. Charlie Batch, no question, could tear up those defense's.



Look a little closer. You say the good offensive teams in this league score 20 points easily like we never, ever do so. We are averaging 20.3 points a game this season and our offense ranks 12th in the league. Not too bad considering you make them out to be absolute bottom-feeders. To the actual numbers, we're actually "good" to your standards.

Again, we have the scheme to score. We just must eliminate our own stupid penalties and mistakes to give ourselves a chance within the red-zone. Eager to see how injuries stay together as well. We NEED health on the offensive line. PERIOD, to score. I actually think Redman gives us the best option in the run game, for our o-line to succeed.i havent seen anybody successfully debate my argument yet. :hunch:

look a little closer... steelers are ranked 20th in points scored. there are 12 teams who make the playoffs and 12 teams who rank below 20th in scoring whom i would consider "bottom feeders".

steelers are 1 game removed from the latter category and i am very thankful they have a defense dominant enough to land them the #5 seet in the former.

but when it comes to winning championships, they better figure out how to offensively score more points, not throw untimely picks, and secure the ball when getting sacked (pretty sure ben has fumbled more times this season than mendenhall has in his career).

anybody is free to debate that as much as they wish. a healthy ben has struggled to put up points in 3 of 4 of our losses this season.

tanda10506
01-04-2012, 02:04 AM
I agree, if the Steelers are going to win it this year we need more offense. Ben is to blame for some of his turnovers, but the atrocious O line we had in the first 4 weeks was mostly responsible. Also Ben does miss sometimes, but most of his misses come on the 20 long bombs that Arians calls. I don't think Ben has played to his full potential for quite a few games, but overall Ben is not a problem for this offense and they would be near the last in offense if it wasn't for him. We need a new offensive gameplan and we need it now.

Bayz101
01-04-2012, 02:05 AM
i havent seen anybody successfully debate my argument yet. :hunch:

look a little closer... steelers are ranked 20th in points scored. there are 12 teams who make the playoffs and 12 teams who rank below 20th in scoring whom i would consider "bottom feeders".

steelers are 1 game removed from the latter category and i am very thankful they have a defense dominant enough to land them the #5 seet in the former.

but when it comes to winning championships, they better figure out how to offensively score more points, not throw untimely picks, and secure the ball when getting sacked (pretty sure ben has fumbled more times this season than mendenhall has in his career).

anybody is free to debate that as much as they wish. a healthy ben has struggled to put up points in 3 of 4 of our losses this season.

Our offense is good, it's the execution that is lacking. We get clear into the opposing team's territory a LOT, and come up empty. RedZone offense has never been the Steelers strong point, but this year their having trouble even getting past the 40.

As for Ben's health, I don't recall a season in which Ben survived 16 games without injury. A big part of this is due to his ability to roll out a pass, thus putting himself at risk of injury, but the offensive line undoubtedly plays a part as well. Ben hasn't been able to escape the pocket, yet he's still getting rushed and sacked on average pace.

If the offensive line rises to the occasion, the right plays will be made. But as for execution, we're almost their. But, I know. "Almost" counts only in horseshoes and hand grenades.

tony hipchest
01-04-2012, 02:12 AM
As for Ben's health, I don't recall a season in which Ben survived 16 games without injury. A big part of this is due to his ability to roll out a pass, thus putting himself at risk of injury, but the offensive line undoubtedly plays a part as well. Ben hasn't been able to escape the pocket, yet he's still getting rushed and sacked on average pace.

.when's the last time arians called a roll out pass. mike shanahan would be creaming his jeans with a qb of bens calibur.

of course mike shanahan at OC would also win a sb 2 years in a row with a qb of bens calibur.

Bayz101
01-04-2012, 02:22 AM
when's the last time arians called a roll out pass. mike shanahan would be creaming his jeans with a qb of bens calibur.

of course mike shanahan at OC would also win a sb 2 years in a row with a qb of bens calibur.

What I meant by Rollout was Ben escaping the pocket (presumably running for his life). It's obvious that Ben's one of the best, if not the best QB in football. Stats are irrelevant, what counts is how heavy them fingers are, lol. That's why i'm skeptical over Andrew Luck. He's an accurate passer, but he's losing games? Is he a winner, or is he Peyton Manning who will likely retire with one lone ring.

StainlessStill
01-04-2012, 02:37 AM
i havent seen anybody successfully debate my argument yet. :hunch:

look a little closer... steelers are ranked 20th in points scored. there are 12 teams who make the playoffs and 12 teams who rank below 20th in scoring whom i would consider "bottom feeders".

steelers are 1 game removed from the latter category and i am very thankful they have a defense dominant enough to land them the #5 seet in the former.

but when it comes to winning championships, they better figure out how to offensively score more points, not throw untimely picks, and secure the ball when getting sacked (pretty sure ben has fumbled more times this season than mendenhall has in his career).

anybody is free to debate that as much as they wish. a healthy ben has struggled to put up points in 3 of 4 of our losses this season.

Dude, I don't even know what it is that you're even saying. Okay, it's safe to say that YES, we are going to have to score more points to win. That goes for everyone.

The Steelers have went up against one of the tougher defense's in the league this season. It's pretty safe to say that our offense can get things done against the "elite" teams in the league, but what you're failing to realize is that they lack defense, so our offense should be just fine if we are pitted up against the New England's or the Green Bay's of the league, I really don't see that as being a problem, scheme wise. We have the defense to slow down those types of offense's and if you want to throw Baltimore in the mix, I'm pretty sure our offense gave us the lead in that 2nd Baltimore game before our defense got drivin' into the dirt for 92 yards.

Look, nothing has really changed from this Steelers team. We've been beating teams the same way for years. It actually HELPS us in our favor that the most scariest team's in the league don't have the defense's, which ultimately gives our stalling offense a chance to make things happen with how good our defense is.

If we limit our own mistakes and try to remain healthy in this 4 game stretch coming up, we have a good shot. We have a good team with a quarterback that plays the best sandlot football in a league where only a handful of elite defense's exist, us being one of them. I think we're primed. The Steelers have been winning on defense for AGES. That probably won't change now.

steelfury02
01-04-2012, 07:44 AM
problem is - those same teams with terrible defenses have the offensive machine to come back from 21-0 ala Patriots. They don't need a good or even average defense - they just let the other team slip up - which is our M.O. this season - all it takes is 1 slip up, 1 to 2 stalled drives in a row - and before you know it, you are having to go to pass,pass,pass to catchup and then Ben gets clobbered.

We are a 12-4 team - any other season that would probably at least a division title and a game at home to start (probably even a bye) - but you said it - we haven't stepped up at the critical times to make the leap to put us in the driver's seast

The 92 yard drive against us was frustrating - but why, at home, against a our most hated team, with the division on the line - did our offense not score more points? Yes - the Rats have a great D also - but they are capable of doing more - just look at 07 home game where we clobbered them - it was because we had a killer mentality - same killer mentality that put us in a good position and helped us sweep 3 games from them in 08' on the biggest of stages

Yes - we were a much healthier and younger team. I don't discount what long season after long season can do to a team - look how deep we've gotten and how often - even when we didn't make it into the playoffs - it came right down to the wire - this team is in a lot of huge games. And to the other point in the Broncos thread - teams have extra motivation against us - its like beating the Yankees - our team and our fanbase is truly envied - so yea - every game for this team from wk 1 on is like a playoff game

Just not sure if we have what it takes mentally and from a health standpoint to do it. I hope I'm wrong. The one thing we all know - is that they have a history of turning up the heat in the playoffs. I expect plenty of fight from them and hope they win it for themselves - they surely are not a respected team right now - so I hope they can channel that feeling into anger and really prevail - Will wins over skill every time.

theplatypus
01-04-2012, 08:22 AM
Having 11 turnovers in our two poorest offensive showings couldn't have anything to do with a 20pt per game average. Nor does having 7 turnovers in the next 3 (Brownsx2,Chiefs). On average you've got 12 offensive possessions per game and 12 is being generous. In our 5 worst offensive games we've killed 30% of our drives via turnover. That doesn't have jack do with Arians, but it has everything to do with poor execution by the O and poor decision making by the qb. Also if you want to talk about our 20point per game average you need to acknowledge that 11 of 16 games are against top ten 10 defenses in the league. Or you could just take the easy way out and blame it all on Arians.

Whodis
01-04-2012, 08:26 AM
Our offense needs to be better. We have a top TE, top QB and some of the best WR's in football. That should be a top 5 offense with no questions asked and any fan that knows football should agree. There are shitty QB's putting up hall of fame numbers in this new NFL and I expect the same out of Ben.

Playing in Denver isn't easy, but beating Tim Tebow should be. I'm looking for a reason to be concerned and i can't find one. The bottom line is that we need to hold onto the ball (no TO's) and we should beat them. Keep them off the field and make TT force the action.

pete74
01-04-2012, 11:41 AM
our offense and especially Ben has been playing horrible and they will be out of the playoffs really fast if they dont find a way to get the ball into the endzone. Ben needs to stop making so many mistakes because we have an elite defense that can win us a title if the offense can just make a few plays and not cough the ball up.
with that said i personally feel our running game will be better with Redman(as long as he can hold onto the ball). i always said mendenhall was good but redman can do the same thing if not more

nyuknyuk
01-04-2012, 11:42 AM
our offense and especially Ben has been playing horrible and they will be out of the playoffs really fast if they dont find a way to get the ball into the endzone. Ben needs to stop making so many mistakes because we have an elite defense that can win us a title if the offense can just make a few plays and not cough the ball up.
with that said i personally feel our running game will be better with Redman(as long as he can hold onto the ball). i always said mendenhall was good but redman can do the same thing if not more

Isn't Ben hobbled? If nothing else I figure we could divert him to a strip joint where he'd vanish for days.

nyuknyuk
01-04-2012, 11:44 AM
Our offense needs to be better. We have a top TE, top QB and some of the best WR's in football. That should be a top 5 offense with no questions asked and any fan that knows football should agree.

ORLY?


Playing in Denver isn't easy, but beating Tim Tebow should be. I'm looking for a reason to be concerned and i can't find one. The bottom line is that we need to hold onto the ball (no TO's) and we should beat them. Keep them off the field and make TT force the action.

I love overconfidence. :drink::thumbsup:

tony hipchest
01-04-2012, 09:28 PM
What I meant by Rollout was Ben escaping the pocket (presumably running for his life). It's obvious that Ben's one of the best, if not the best QB in football. .that's EXACTLY the point i was making. Ben is one of the best rolling out and passing, yet it seems we dont even have it in the playbook. Shanahans offense is built around it. him and plummer took the broncos to the AFCC game w/ it and jay cutler excelled. yet we refuse to call it. :noidea:



Look, nothing has really changed from this Steelers team. We've been beating teams the same way for years..

that is EXACTLY my point. no change, no evolution, no getting better... just staying stagnant. YIPPEE!

after 5 years in the same offensive system, one would hope to see progress. drew brees almost broke dan marinos passing record 2 seasons ago. he comes back this year and shaters it. tom brady eclipsed it as well, and he has long been regarded as the best qb in the league. aaron rogers was deemed last years greatest darling and has an even better season this year and seems to be the front runner for mvp. matt stafford gets better. alex smith from SF fiinally gets a brand new coach and a brand new system that is worth a pot to piss in, and he improves. eli manning is having the best season of his career, and ben still cant touch philip rivers statistically.

the main difference isnt in talent level, its in the capability of the people calling the plays. if that means ben is no longer suited to be his own coordinator then so be it. aaron rogers was calling plays for matt flynn last weekend. was ben doing that for charlie a few weeks back?

only in pittsburgh is offensive mediocrity good enough, because we have the #1 defense year in and year out. basically now we are regressing to the "tommy gun" offense with a 4000+ yd passer and two 1000+ yd rushers and an amos zeoroue type running game to replace a run game that can grind out yards when needed. our offensive philosophy isnt innovative. it is regressive back to the steelers and patriots of 2003-2004 respectively.

mularkey was fired and we immediately changed offensive philosophy, went 15-1 and followed that up with a SB win the next season. that alone is proof that we CAN get better. ironically mularkey landed on his feet with a coaching job in buffalo and is currently interviewing with the jaguars for their HC position. any team holding their breath for arians? :nono:

Also if you want to talk about our 20point per game average you need to acknowledge that 11 of 16 games are against top ten 10 defenses in the league. Or you could just take the easy way out and blame it all on Arians.if you want to talk about that, YOU need to acknowledge that the bungles and ravens have played almost the EXACT same schedule, with the unfortunate misfortune of having to face the steelers (#1 passing defense and #1 in points allowed) TWICE, which almost makes their schedule even TOUGHER.

ben roethlisburger- 21td/14int
andy dalton- 20td/13int
joe flacco- 20td/12int

andy dalton is a rookie in a brand new system with a 1st year coordinator who didnt have any benefits of minicamps.

joe flacco, is kind of an inconsistant choker and is with a coordinator (cam camaroon) who is often regarded as completely clueless and despised by reven fans.

whats arians excuse? its time for the fans to quit making excuses for him. :drink:

Ricco Suavez
01-04-2012, 10:12 PM
No argument from me this Offense does need to score more points, but do not for one minute think this offense does not do a large part in helping this "old" defense. If you look at time of possession the Steelers are second only to the Texans, and this without the benefit of a true running game. This in itself should lead you to believe that this offense sustains drives and keeps our defense fresh.

Our offense also ranks 25th in the league in average starting field position. This means we have to drive on average longer fields than nearly every other team. Check out Football Outsiders and look up Innovative Statistics and see that our offense has had to overcome many things not the least being turnovers and penalities.

StainlessStill
01-04-2012, 10:29 PM
I love overconfidence. :drink::thumbsup:

Trust us, it's not that we're over-confident. It's just out of ALL the 12 NFL playoff teams, we happened to draw the weakest of the bunch from the weakest division. There is absolutley NO indications for myself, personally, to be concerned like I would against New England, Baltimore or even Cincinnati. Over the past weeks, Denver has truly been as awful as any bottom feeder out there. I would of even been more concerned to go to Oakland than to Denver. Denver was the best outcome if we played in a Wild-Card matchup.

tony hipchest
01-04-2012, 11:19 PM
No argument from me this Offense does need to score more points, but do not for one minute think this offense does not do a large part in helping this "old" defense. If you look at time of possession the Steelers are second only to the Texans, and this without the benefit of a true running game. This in itself should lead you to believe that this offense sustains drives and keeps our defense fresh.

Our offense also ranks 25th in the league in average starting field position. This means we have to drive on average longer fields than nearly every other team. Check out Football Outsiders and look up Innovative Statistics and see that our offense has had to overcome many things not the least being turnovers and penalities.those are very valid points. the substantial drop in TO's and sacks has hurt our average starting position, and i am almost certain, ben and the offense are instructed to use up every second of the :45 second clock to expand on the TOP (even during "huury up" / "no huddle") or why else would they so consistantly do it.

while it may be a bit counterproductive in putting up alot of points on the board, it certainly give our #1 ranked, "balls out" defense, much needed time to rest.